/l/ - The Lounge

Off-topic discussion

[Make a Post]
[X]





Anarcho-capitalism General Nanonymous No.10912 [D][U][F][S][L][A][C]
File: 521d3976f6e7c46517e5c70a6d49bf7eb7b318a10409a352bcfa840925ef2f1d.png (dl) (6.70 KiB)

This is a thread for discussion and critic about anarcho-capitalism, please keep it civil and on topic :)

Anarcho-capitalism is a political philosophy and school of anarchist thought that advocates the elimination of centralized state dictum in favor of self-ownership, private property and free markets.

Free market
Transaction between individuals are conducted on a free market regulated only by offer and demand, this is made possible by cryptocurrencies and tokenization of assets.

Decentralization
The current centralized approach to governments leads to corruption, lobbyism, harms innovation and leads to huge amounts of wasted resources, we should switch preferably to a stateless society with decentralized public systems where individuals govern themselves.

Private property
Individual private property is at the center of the anarcho-capitalist ideology, instead of being given rights by an entity above you, you directly own your body and your capital.

Public services
In an anarcho-capitalist society public services are either handled by private entities or work in a decentralized way.

Non-aggression principle
The non-aggression principle states that you should not attack others but you can still defend yourself and your property.

Resources:
Anarcho-capitalism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
Austrian School - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School
Self-ownership - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ownership
Non-aggression principle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

~Taxation is theft~

Nanonymous No.10914 [D] >>10916

capitalism is shit. why cant you just be a human? humans dont care about rules unless they are raped, thus they are anarchists until they are ousted as a cuck or overcome the culcoldry

Nanonymous No.10915 [D]

cuckoldry*

Nanonymous No.10916 [D][U][F]
File: b9e57ee68536fbbbd4a8584ca058e073fc550dc67a0af53705ceb4878d0a0cad.png (dl) (401.51 KiB)

>>10914
>capitalism is shit
Mind argumenting? The aspects that i find shitty about capitalism are solved by anarcho-capitalism(i can explain more in depth if you want).
>humans dont care about rules unless they are raped, thus they are anarchists until they are ousted as a cuck or overcome the culcoldry
Not sure if i undertand you, but you could say that humans are anarchists in nature, and have been anarchists for millions of years, in current society you are brainwashed since young age in respecting arbitrarly decided rules(especially through school) so the average man is not anarchist.

Nanonymous No.10919 [D] >>10934

Anarcho capitalism works in a closed environment like a country that heavily limits immigration.Without that it only allows the wealthy to exploit the poor even more than they already do.

Nanonymous No.10920 [D] >>10921 >>10923 >>10927 >>10934

<dude weed lmao
<What if the child consents though?

Nanonymous No.10921 [D] >>10923 >>10934

>>10920
<jailing people over pot is cool
<15-year-old thots can't consent

Nanonymous No.10923 [D] >>10934

>>10920
>>10921
>it's not consent if i redefine the word
>murica
whichever one of u faggots are serious can fuck off

Nanonymous No.10924 [D] >>10934

for some reason ancapism reminds me of naturecucked retards with their bullshit lex "naturalis"

Nanonymous No.10927 [D] >>10935

>>10920
>What if the child consents though?

I don't care if they move the legal age up to 21.But calling 16 and 17 year olds children and the person who sleeps with them a pedophile is reaching.Take Chris Hansen's sting operations for example.Not only do they flirt with the men first but they also use pictures of a legal adult.They make a guy who is sexually attracted to 19 year old woman look like a sicko.

Nanonymous No.10934 [D][U][F]
File: eddaa86a3ffbedfb396d06715f73803dc1688607d59c39c4f5b93446539051f1.png (dl) (359.48 KiB)

>>10919
>Anarcho capitalism works in a closed environment like a country that heavily limits immigration.
Immigrants wouldn't stand a chance in an ancap country, ancap society is purely meritocratic and there is next to none welfare, immigrants would not be competitive(unless they sell themself as slaves i guess) and they could not suck resources through welfare anymore, so in an ancap country you wouldn't have leech immigrants anymore.
>>10920
>>10921
>>10923
>weed, consent
Prohibiting substances is stupid in the first place, in an ancap society as i wrote in OP you own your body and are responsible for it, so you can do whatever you want with it even assume potentially dangerous substances, it's kind of the same with consent.
>>10924
>for some reason ancapism reminds me of naturecucked retards with their bullshit lex "naturalis"
Cause ancap/anarchism in the natural way of living, modern society is an aberration that should have never existed.

Nanonymous No.10935 [D]

>>10927
Nobody should have their lives destroyed over a jailbait. If they want to have AOC, it should be on a sliding scale to account for minors' willingness for sex instead of pretending it doesn't exist. Make 13 and up a misdemeanor, because that is the actual severity of it.

Children face more actual danger from drunk drivers than from people looking at CP, yet the former is usually no jail while the latter is usually a long prison stint, and unemployment and homelessness afterward, basically a death sentence. At least in muttland.

Nanonymous No.10961 [D] >>11000

Ancap society does not exist. Ergo you can say whatever you want about it with equal results - none. Unlike communism, which was actually tried and failed miserably. So far not a single ancap society ever existed and few attempts to establish it failed, ergo ancap is impossible (yet or totally).

Nanonymous No.11000 [D][U][F] >>11029
File: 922fda0b5c3caab9fe8bfc7ba2714e5f342ddc246376cff4068f19484b5da424.png (dl) (467.82 KiB)

>>10961
Wrong, think for example of the american frontier from 17th-19th centuries, laws were most of the time settled by the people without a central government, commerce, mining, infrastructures were handled locally, it was also way less violent than movies would let you think btw.

Nanonymous No.11029 [D] >>11045

>>11000
>think for example of the american frontier from 17th-19th centuries
The frontier was a sparsely populated wasteland where dissenters could move away from the govt that had neither tanks nor aviation nor even proper artillery in modern sense. And then you had the Comanche and the like Mongoling around.
Pray tell me how are you going to replicate a sparse wasteland mores and laws in a country of 330+ million people, several dozen million of whom have mores and laws of Aztec cannibals and several dozen more will cheer for BigGov sending drone swarms your side?
How will ancap be possible in two specific regions, each with 1B+ people, nukes and planetwide influence, one of whom happens to be a ChingChong NatSoc?
Think how the frontier and all "ancap" there evaporated once the railways were up and running and people pouring. Turns out, wherever you have people you will find enough folks to police other folks.
>commerce, mining, infrastructures were handled locally
So long as there were few locals and they were mostly isolated from others, so they had no choice to invite a BigGov to settle things in their favour. Now they can, there are droves of people everywhere and Govts have choppers and ICBMs instead of cavalry. Now what?

I perfectly understand how you are disgusted and fed up with the modern clown world. But ancap is the same clown world, flesh and soul. You have to go deeper, beyond -isms. And beyond a rehash of Paleoliberalism that inevitably leads to Bolshevism anyway, like it already does.

Nanonymous No.11045 [D][U][F] >>11049
File: 49d9ef5ab031db1b15252f599a2aee62af197966416460df0cd3e839063b115c.png (dl) (802.08 KiB)

>>11029
Maybe you're right and it's too late to save the USA/PRC, but this doesn't mean that ancap will not happen on new frontiers in the future, for example if we're gonna colonize Mars, once the first stable settlements starts to be stable and self-sustained, with the distance from earth and governments and a whole empty planet it would be a new lawless frontier, other places where ancap could happen are small countries with a gov too small to care or even virtual spaces, for example the early internet was lawless.
>Think how the frontier and all "ancap" there evaporated once the railways were up and running and people pouring. Turns out, wherever you have people you will find enough folks to police other folks.
>But ancap is the same clown world, flesh and soul.
In ancap societies like the western frontier life is hard, only smart and capable people survives, such is the price of freedom but this also results in producing higly skilled and independent people(this is also how evolution works kind of), where the opposite happens in a non-ancap society where through welfare unfit and stupid people are allowed to bring everybody else down with them and you're forced not only to pay for their bullshit but also to be subjected to bullshit laws and regulations made "for your own good" cause the standard citizen to whom laws are targeted to is a retard.


Now it's true that an ancap Mars colony probably won't stay like that forever once more [stupid] people starts pouring in, just like the internet changed when the normalfags discovered it, this is why when you think of ancap you shouldn't think of an entire country like USA/PRC in the first place, instead you should think in terms of individuals or small groups of individuals that want to escape the modern slave-like life and this is possible either by doing it hidden from the gov(becoming a "criminal") or by going in countries that don't care that much about what you do or by exploiting rules(think of multiple passports, tax havens etc) or by looking for new and more free frontiers(why do you think i'm typing this on the darknet ;) ).

Nanonymous No.11049 [D][U][F] >>11061
File: 417eb214554aa23a4b0e87145913d56f66d3faae5752f2fae68a3e39ea62a3e4.png (dl) (110.81 KiB)

>>11045
>or example if we're gonna colonize Mars, once the first stable settlements starts to be stable and self-sustained, with the distance from earth and governments and a whole empty planet it would be a new lawless frontier
Until it is not a lawless frontier anylonger as people move in, stay unequal, divide into social strata and go the same shitto agen.
Think Iceland, so often praised as Ancappiest place in history. It was a lawless subartic Frontier populated by isolated families.
Until they were a frontier no longer, enough people moved in-bred for Sturlungs, the Big Men with Big Properties, to emerge, start dividing Iceland into their personal fiefdoms and sell their asses to the King of Norway their grandgrandfathers sailed away in the first place.

>bullshit laws and regulations made "for your own good" cause the standard citizen to whom laws are targeted to is a retard
Of course they are made to kill you as a competitor, being too overburdened with feeding violent proles to pose any risk to my oligarchal interests. I would do the same anyway, given the chance, we're all humans here.
Ancap is unstable because of compound interests of slight unequalities in ability and property snowballing eventually to go the usual stratified society we always see, because humans WILL use their power to fuck around and they WILL accumulate it in time. It snowballs slower when there are less people around, hence an illusion of working ancap in barely populated wilderness, but not a single example of ancap-like society in any densely populated region anywhere ever.

But you think in the right direction. You just adhere to a modern solution to a problem of modernity, so you'll solve nothing by ancap. You need to go deeper.

Nanonymous No.11061 [D][U][F] >>11088 >>11097
File: 6ed2a0ceab308b1be5f949518aa69bb3bb26d90fcddfecd39a10b3351975c62c.png (dl) (301.82 KiB)

>>11049
>Of course they are made to kill you as a competitor, being too overburdened with feeding violent proles to pose any risk to my oligarchal interests.
If some wannabe lord comes and says that you now need to be subjected to his laws, since that's a violation of the NAP, you get your other fellow ancap that shares your desire of freedom and you kiss his ass, freedom is something you need to mantain. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
>Ancap is unstable in any densely populated region
Maybe that's not the way to go then, maybe we shouldn't have cities, with the internet and cryptocurrencies you don't even need to live close to exchange information/goods, cities are such an innatural way of living.
I say let's keep people sparse on our Mars colony and have a decentralized way to distribute services and goods, if you don't NEED the cities why would you have them?
Stratification of society is a biproduct of the way you structure the society, in an society explicitly ancap and with an ancap culture it would be more difficult for stratification to emerge.
>You just adhere to a modern solution to a problem of modernity, so you'll solve nothing by ancap. You need to go deeper.
Expand on that...

Nanonymous No.11088 [D]

>>11061
>kiss his ass
ahahah implied kick his ass

Nanonymous No.11097 [D][U][F]
File: 6de3a96d5fec663ae002f70d87bcbc38064eac2c0af3a651e868f28c1e5257b8.jpg (dl) (16.50 KiB)

>>11061
>you get your other fellow ancap that shares your desire of freedom and you kiss his ass
Exactly, my man. Exactly. Just like in Iceland the Big Men won by kissing the ass of the King of Norway, so the previously free Icelanders kissed his ass too by Big Men proxy. Same as the aristocracy of Rome had to kiss Caesar's ass after he came with mountains of gold and personally loyal legions after 20 years of conquering Gallia. Same as even ancap-y Hellenic Poleis eventually stratified into who kissed Athenian/Spartan/Theban ass before Macedonians installed a Persian style tyranny over them, because there were mighty more Macedonians than Hellenes fighting them. Or how the tribal democracies of Germanics and Slavs dissolved into aristocracies then monarchies as their numbers grew from assimilating locals and taking their shit - in unequal ratios.
It is a law of numbers. The less people around, the ancap-y it gets. The more of them around - you get an East Asian bureaucracy at best.

>Maybe that's not the way to go then, maybe we shouldn't have cities, with the internet and cryptocurrencies you don't even need to live close to exchange information/goods, cities are such an innatural way of living.
I find it ironic that the Founding Fathers of the US espoused an ideal of small scale armed freemen farmers society. Small scale is the key. Unfortunately, a heavily decentralized and kinda free HRE got itself conquered and pushed like a bitch by a centralized tyrannical France. Whoever makes weapons on the largest scale, wins. And dictates what's up.
Modern 333+ million USA with sprawling megapoleis can't have freedom by design. Same as people in sparsely populated areas of the US or Russia become ancap-y or die/get fucked by ancap-y locals, but in the heavily populated areas they have the feudal ladder at best, collapsing Roman tyranny of oligarchs and unwashed proles at worst.

>I say let's keep people sparse on our Mars colony
Iceland problem. If you can get to the Mars, so can the others. And even if you go isolationist cannibals, it is a question of time and population before mounting inequalities of power dissolve your ancap. You will have Martian freemen in the deserts, and Martian poleis of tyranny. And the freemen, to preserve their way of life and properties, will have to band into something much akin to warring tribes of yore.

>Stratification of society is a biproduct of the way you structure the society
The Commies thought likewise. They failed. Society is a product of people (EVERYTHING in society and culture comes from the people, never around), and people are inherently unequal. Which leads to strata of abilities+properties=power.

>in an society explicitly ancap and with an ancap culture it would be more difficult for stratification to emerge
More difficult. Not impossible nor preventable. Both a fuming obese drunkard and a drugs free athlete die in the end, the former quicker, but both still will die.

>Expand on that...
Hans Herman-Hoppe hit the roof when he started expanding on natural aristocracies and HRE-like feudalism. He basically concluded ancap to be impossible and would like to revert to a working model of post-Roman Empire aristocracy, but with kewl tech now. "Europe of a thousand Liechtensteins" with free movement of people around. Unfortunately, one tyrannical USA/Russia will kick ass of a thousand Liecthensteins and take their shit.
So long as private individuals/groups can't compete with ordered tyrannies on inflicting violence, they will get their shit shoved and ancap conquered. AKA the private nukes problem.

Nanonymous No.11132 [D]

Ancap is just neo-feudalism. Capitalism works well when it can expand, but what happens when it hits a limitation, the edge?

From what I've seen, arguments for Ancap start to become questionable, just like capitalism, when it meets natural restraints.

Communism/Socialism are blind to limited capital, as Capitalism is blind to limited resources.