[00:00.000 --> 00:12.040]  In their Frank's motion and elsewhere, the defense in the Richard Allen case has spent much time over the last year or so praising Todd Click.
[00:12.160 --> 00:19.260]  Todd Click is one of their investigators or someone who's investigated the Delphi Murders case,
[00:19.260 --> 00:24.600]  and he's one of the people who is responsible for coming up with this theory of Odinism.
[00:24.600 --> 00:32.480]  And because the defense liked that theory, they did their best to portray him as a classic old-time police officer,
[00:32.760 --> 00:40.760]  a great investigator, someone that should be emulated by other legal and investigative officers.
[00:41.380 --> 00:49.280]  Now, today comes word that perhaps their portrayal of him as a great investigator may not be entirely accurate
[00:49.280 --> 00:53.000]  because Todd Click has actually been arrested.
[00:53.000 --> 00:57.660]  In essence, he has been charged with lying about an investigation.
[00:57.940 --> 01:01.000]  We will have all the details on that in just a few moments.
[01:01.840 --> 01:03.880]  My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.
[01:04.360 --> 01:06.400]  And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.
[01:06.800 --> 01:08.360]  And this is The Murder Sheet.
[01:08.620 --> 01:14.620]  We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases.
[01:14.900 --> 01:16.480]  We're The Murder Sheet.
[01:16.760 --> 01:18.700]  And this is The Delphi Murders.
[01:18.700 --> 01:22.820]  Defense witness Todd Click is arrested on unrelated matters.
[02:06.700 --> 02:13.400]  I want to be accurate here and tell you exactly what Todd Click is charged with.
[02:13.780 --> 02:17.220]  And I just want to underscore, this is unrelated to the Delphi Murders case.
[02:17.280 --> 02:19.040]  It has nothing to do with that investigation.
[02:19.660 --> 02:24.160]  And this occurs in Ripley County, Indiana, which is in the southeastern portion of our state.
[02:24.720 --> 02:30.660]  This has bearing on the Delphi Murders because it goes to credibility of this witness
[02:30.660 --> 02:32.160]  that we were told was so important.
[02:32.920 --> 02:38.820]  Yes. The defense attorneys in this case invested quite a bit of their credibility
[02:38.820 --> 02:44.200]  in building this person up, in building up the credibility of Todd Click.
[02:44.640 --> 02:50.020]  And now we have reason to believe that perhaps those efforts were in vain.
[02:50.420 --> 02:54.460]  But I should emphasize, innocent until proven guilty.
[02:54.480 --> 02:57.140]  But these are very serious charges.
[02:57.260 --> 02:59.620]  Yes. This is a situation, a caveat.
[02:59.620 --> 03:01.880]  Not everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
[03:02.260 --> 03:08.300]  We are going to have to wait and see what the results of this sort of situation are down the road.
[03:08.760 --> 03:12.400]  That being said, whenever you have a law enforcement official of any kind,
[03:12.500 --> 03:16.600]  and of course Todd Click is the former assistant police chief of Rustville
[03:16.600 --> 03:18.660]  and has years of experience with that,
[03:18.660 --> 03:23.700]  whenever you have credibility issues around a law enforcement officer in any capacity,
[03:23.700 --> 03:29.440]  that is something that is very disturbing and very concerning for the people in that community.
[03:30.620 --> 03:34.780]  So with that said, let's talk about the specific things he is charged with.
[03:35.040 --> 03:40.700]  Count one, he is charged with a level six felony for forgery
[03:40.700 --> 03:45.160]  and or obstruction of a child abuse assessment.
[03:46.600 --> 03:52.440]  And count two, he is charged with felony again for this time for forgery.
[03:52.440 --> 04:00.840]  And count three, obstruction of a child abuse assessment, which is a class A misdemeanor.
[04:01.260 --> 04:06.560]  He was actually taken into custody and he has filed a motion to set a bond.
[04:07.020 --> 04:09.280]  So presumably he remains in custody.
[04:09.820 --> 04:15.060]  And he is being currently represented by attorney Paul Berada Jr.
[04:15.500 --> 04:19.160]  He's a Rustville attorney, so that is somebody he's retained.
[04:19.160 --> 04:27.200]  And meanwhile, the state is represented by prosecuting attorney Richard J. Hurtle.
[04:27.520 --> 04:38.280]  And the judge in this situation is currently listed as one of the Ripley County judges, Jeffrey L. Sharp.
[04:38.960 --> 04:43.560]  So with all of that said, I think you probably have a lot of questions.
[04:43.700 --> 04:47.580]  What exactly did he do? What exactly is he alleged to have done?
[04:47.580 --> 04:54.720]  This is spelled out in a probable cause affidavit that was prepared by Michael Lepper,
[04:55.180 --> 05:00.200]  who is a law enforcement officer with the Indiana Office of Inspector General.
[05:00.700 --> 05:03.540]  I think we should just read the bulk of this.
[05:04.460 --> 05:12.340]  The first half of the first page is essentially Mr. Lepper's background and qualifications.
[05:12.580 --> 05:14.940]  I don't really think we need to go into that.
[05:14.940 --> 05:22.000]  He's a former Indiana State Police officer who now works with the Office of Inspector General.
[05:22.620 --> 05:29.100]  So I'm going to start reading the parts that directly pertain to the matter of Todd Click.
[05:30.000 --> 05:41.360]  Quote, on April 11th, 2024, the Office of the Inspector General received a complaint from the Indiana Department of Child Services, the DCS,
[05:41.360 --> 05:51.620]  alleging that a former DCS employee, Todd Aaron Click, submitted official reports in his role as a family case manager, FCM,
[05:51.900 --> 05:58.260]  to the DCS Case Management System Management Gateway for Indiana Kids, abbreviated as MAGIC.
[05:58.920 --> 06:08.080]  According to DCS, these reports contained false information of family visits and DCS documents with forged signatures of parents' caregivers.
[06:08.080 --> 06:12.800]  I was assigned to investigate this case, unquote.
[06:13.500 --> 06:21.840]  So basically, the allegation is that in Todd Click's then role, working with this Department of Child Services,
[06:22.360 --> 06:33.000]  he was preparing and submitting false reports, and he was forging the signatures of families who were involved in these terrible cases.
[06:33.000 --> 06:40.160]  That's really, really concerning. Obviously, as anyone who's vaguely aware of child services departments knows,
[06:40.580 --> 06:49.240]  these are serious cases where something can have a huge impact on a child's life if they're taken away from their family, if they're left with their family.
[06:50.560 --> 06:59.940]  And for these families as well, it's very concerning to have something where it undermines the confidence that the people who work for that department
[06:59.940 --> 07:05.540]  are doing their jobs properly and giving families a fair chance, giving kids a fair chance.
[07:05.680 --> 07:10.220]  So this is a very serious allegation as far as credibility goes.
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[08:58.500 --> 09:12.320]  Quote, Click was employed by the DCS as a family case manager assigned to the Ripley County office from July 9th, 2023 through March 2nd, 2024, when he resigned.
[09:12.320 --> 09:19.560]  Click's role was as an assessment worker. DCS policy describes the term assessment.
[09:20.360 --> 09:36.280]  An assessment of alleged child abuse and or neglect is a comprehensive process and is completed to ensure the safety and well-being of a child alleged to be a victim of child abuse or neglect.
[09:36.280 --> 09:46.220]  These initial investigations occur immediately following a report of an alleged abuse or neglect that is received by the DCS hotline.
[09:46.760 --> 10:03.460]  During my investigation, I found evidence that Click falsified at least 10 magic entries and forged the signatures of parents slash caregivers on at least seven DCS forms required during the assessment process.
[10:03.460 --> 10:04.620]  End quote.
[10:05.440 --> 10:14.160]  Wow. Now, do you want to switch back and forth between reading out some of the allegations posed by some of these families that dealt with Click in this time?
[10:14.360 --> 10:15.820]  Yeah, why don't you take the next section here.
[10:16.200 --> 10:30.940]  Absolutely. Quote, I believe that Click knowingly or intentionally falsified child abuse or neglect information records committing the crime of obstructing a child abuse investigation, a class A misdemeanor occurring in Ripley County, Indiana based on the following facts.
[10:30.940 --> 10:37.080]  M.B. Family one on December 24th, 2023 at 11 a.m.
[10:37.240 --> 10:44.140]  Click reported in magic that he made a visit to the M.B.'s home in Batesville, but did not find anyone home.
[10:44.400 --> 10:49.900]  Click said he called M.B. on the telephone and was told by M.B. shoes on the way to Ohio for a family Christmas.
[10:50.420 --> 11:00.380]  M.B. said after the domestic violence event on December 23rd, 2023, she went to her mother's home in Milan, Indiana until February of 2024.
[11:00.380 --> 11:04.520]  M.B. said she has no family in Ohio and the call never happened.
[11:06.720 --> 11:25.340]  On 12, 24, 2023, 5 p.m., Click reported in magic he made a video FaceTime call with M.B. and saw her family, saw her children, I.S. and H.S., aged two and two months, and that they appeared healthy.
[11:25.780 --> 11:28.200]  M.B. said that that call never happened.
[11:28.200 --> 11:37.940]  Three, on December 28th, 2023, at 3 15 p.m., Click reported in magic that he met face to face with M.B. and her children at her Batesville home.
[11:38.740 --> 11:42.640]  Click reported the children looked healthy. M.B. said that visit never happened.
[11:43.600 --> 11:52.960]  On 131, 20, 24, 9 30 a.m., Click reported in magic that he met face to face with M.B. and her children at her Batesville home.
[11:53.520 --> 11:55.900]  M.B. said that meeting never happened.
[11:56.740 --> 12:05.220]  On February 15th, 2024, at 3 15 p.m., Click reported in magic that he met face to face with M.B. and her children in her Batesville home.
[12:05.740 --> 12:09.000]  M.B. said this is the only time she has seen Click.
[12:09.480 --> 12:14.360]  Click reported discussing a safety plan, one of the DCS required forms, with M.B.
[12:14.640 --> 12:20.440]  M.B. said he stood just inside the door for five minutes and they never discussed the safety plan. End quote.
[12:20.440 --> 12:26.400]  Yeah, let's step out of here for a minute. I just want to underscore the obvious point of how horrible this is.
[12:27.360 --> 12:34.360]  Because M.B. had just undergone a domestic violence incident, it sounds like, and that's why child services were involved.
[12:34.500 --> 12:45.700]  And she has a two-month-old and a two-year-old. She needed help from the government and she needed help from these agencies, which are there to help her.
[12:45.700 --> 12:53.940]  And it's not really sounding like Click's role really required a great deal of effort on his part.
[12:54.380 --> 12:57.080]  But still, he did not put forth that effort.
[12:57.140 --> 13:05.020]  And he failed this person and he submitted false reports about that to cover that up, at least according to these allegations.
[13:05.340 --> 13:08.380]  Well, listen, I would actually disagree with you on that.
[13:08.480 --> 13:12.640]  I think the people who work in child services, you know, that is a hard job.
[13:12.640 --> 13:15.500]  That is something that requires a lot of them.
[13:15.920 --> 13:19.420]  But nonetheless, it is an important job and it is important to do it right.
[13:19.740 --> 13:22.700]  And I think we can all understand that sometimes mistakes happen.
[13:22.760 --> 13:25.140]  Something gets overlooked. Maybe a form isn't signed.
[13:25.780 --> 13:28.140]  But that's not really what this seems to be.
[13:28.200 --> 13:31.180]  This seems to be incidents made up out of whole cloth.
[13:31.640 --> 13:40.800]  And when you have, you know, when you have allegations about that, that goes from just being sloppy and not taking your job seriously to lying.
[13:40.800 --> 13:47.580]  And when you're in a situation like this, obviously that's unacceptable and illegal.
[13:48.780 --> 13:52.460]  Why don't you tell us about the allegation concerning the A.B. family?
[13:52.860 --> 13:54.660]  Sure. Quote, A.B. family.
[13:55.300 --> 13:58.520]  On January 22nd, 2024 at 3.30 p.m.
[13:58.700 --> 14:06.540]  Click reported in Magic that he made a face-to-face visit with A.B., his wife and their child R.B. at their Holton home.
[14:06.960 --> 14:09.060]  A.B. said this visit never happened.
[14:09.060 --> 14:16.160]  Earlier in the day, R.B. reported to her school that she had been fondled by a family friend on January 21st, 2024.
[14:16.580 --> 14:25.200]  The school advised the A.B. family that they reported the incident 11.51 a.m. to the hotline and to go home and that D.C.S. would be out to their home.
[14:25.580 --> 14:32.960]  At 8.24 p.m., A.B. made a second report to the hotline as no one from D.C.S. ever came to their home. End quote.
[14:33.620 --> 14:36.280]  This again is outrageous for multiple reasons.
[14:36.280 --> 14:40.540]  Obviously, this family did the right thing.
[14:41.640 --> 14:45.180]  They reported or it was reported.
[14:45.500 --> 14:48.700]  The child reported and then they went to deal with it.
[14:48.800 --> 14:49.760]  So they did the right thing.
[14:49.800 --> 14:51.020]  The school did the right thing.
[14:51.200 --> 14:52.720]  You know, everyone did the right thing here.
[14:53.160 --> 14:53.920]  Except Click.
[14:55.280 --> 14:57.920]  He had a moral and a legal obligation here.
[14:57.920 --> 14:58.920]  He didn't do it.
[14:59.260 --> 15:03.000]  He lied about it, at least according to this allegation.
[15:03.000 --> 15:09.440]  And it's also baffling because how did he think he would get away with this?
[15:10.100 --> 15:13.800]  How did he think that people wouldn't realize he wasn't doing his job?
[15:14.260 --> 15:25.900]  And meanwhile, we're all a little less safe if we live in this county because people who are committing these offenses are not being investigated because he is lying.
[15:26.820 --> 15:29.380]  Yeah, I mean, again, it's innocent until proven guilty.
[15:29.460 --> 15:31.680]  So I guess, you know, we'll have to see what his defense is.
[15:31.680 --> 15:35.380]  This is all some big misunderstanding, but the allegations are very serious.
[15:35.380 --> 15:44.780]  And if true, just mind blowing that somebody in an official capacity would be doing stuff like this, because as you said, how would you get away with it over time?
[15:45.080 --> 15:46.220]  Innocent until proven guilty.
[15:46.380 --> 15:51.900]  I may be responding emotionally to the severity of some of these allegations.
[15:52.080 --> 15:53.160]  Mm hmm. Agreed.
[15:53.240 --> 15:59.900]  Yeah, it's it's upsetting because you want to believe that somebody employed with an important government organization like this would be doing their jobs properly.
[15:59.900 --> 16:06.540]  And again, we all understand that people are strapped for time, you know, like maybe something happens, something goes wrong.
[16:06.700 --> 16:09.120]  It's not like perfection is expected.
[16:09.560 --> 16:12.100]  But this is actively lying.
[16:12.980 --> 16:16.760]  So to me, that that's a different issue altogether.
[16:17.040 --> 16:18.980]  You can't just be like, well, people make mistakes.
[16:19.020 --> 16:22.980]  If you're choosing to lie about doing something, that's not a mistake.
[16:23.140 --> 16:24.300]  That's a choice.
[16:24.300 --> 16:30.880]  All he had to do was show up and talk to these people and give them information and help them through the next steps of the process.
[16:31.580 --> 16:36.020]  And he completely according to these allegations, he completely failed to do that.
[16:36.460 --> 16:37.940]  Should we move on to the MW family?
[16:38.260 --> 16:40.880]  Sure. I'll start and we can kind of go back and forth.
[16:41.700 --> 16:47.960]  So quote MW family on December 22nd, 2023, 430 p.m.
[16:48.140 --> 16:59.080]  Click reported in Magic that he had a face to face visit with CW, guardian of the children, MW, mother of children, SF, age 11 and LF, age eight, at their Osgood home.
[16:59.560 --> 17:02.040]  CW and MW both said the visit never happened.
[17:02.460 --> 17:04.020]  CW says she has never met Click.
[17:04.220 --> 17:06.460]  MB said Click never talked to her children.
[17:06.460 --> 17:10.740]  On 129, 2024, 340 p.m.
[17:11.060 --> 17:17.040]  Click reported in Magic a face to face visit with CW, SF and LF of their Osgood home.
[17:17.660 --> 17:19.620]  CW said the visit never happened.
[17:19.740 --> 17:21.160]  She has never met him.
[17:21.480 --> 17:26.060]  Click reported talking to the children and reported the mother MW had moved out of the house.
[17:26.600 --> 17:28.480]  That was also untrue.
[17:29.660 --> 17:30.260]  So end quote.
[17:30.320 --> 17:36.440]  So that is something where, again, it's like you're having the facts of what's going on in these families not matching up to his report.
[17:36.440 --> 17:40.580]  And I would imagine that that would be very easy to check.
[17:41.140 --> 17:41.860]  Yes.
[17:42.440 --> 17:44.700]  So shall we move on to the next family?
[17:45.720 --> 17:47.820]  Quote TS family.
[17:48.680 --> 17:51.820]  On December 21st, 2023 at 430 p.m.
[17:52.060 --> 17:58.700]  Click reported in Magic that he did a face to face visit with TH, grandfather, TS, mother and KS, age 14.
[17:59.280 --> 18:01.060]  Core S, age 10.
[18:01.400 --> 18:02.960]  Cole S, age 17.
[18:03.540 --> 18:07.060]  And Kat CAS, age 12 at their Batesville home.
[18:07.460 --> 18:10.940]  Both TH and TS said that say that never happened.
[18:11.380 --> 18:13.920]  TS says Click has never been to her home.
[18:14.100 --> 18:14.580]  End quote.
[18:14.580 --> 18:16.380]  I'll just read the next family.
[18:16.540 --> 18:17.880]  There's only one more thing here.
[18:18.600 --> 18:19.680]  L family, EL family.
[18:21.120 --> 18:24.780]  February 13th, 2024, 4 or 5 p.m.
[18:24.980 --> 18:30.580]  Click reported in Magic a face to face visit with JB, AKA JL, at his home.
[18:31.180 --> 18:34.380]  JB said Click has never been to his home and he has never met him.
[18:34.820 --> 18:38.180]  JB said they did talk over the telephone once around that time.
[18:38.580 --> 18:43.280]  When Click called JB, he pulled over into the farm and garden in Versailles to speak.
[18:43.280 --> 18:47.580]  DCS requires this interview be conducted in person, end quote.
[18:48.480 --> 18:52.980]  I just want to note that you, a Hoosier, pronounced it Versai.
[18:53.200 --> 18:53.620]  Exactly.
[18:53.740 --> 18:55.400]  Here in Indiana, we pronounce it Versailles.
[18:55.680 --> 18:57.540]  In Indiana, that is Versailles.
[18:58.180 --> 18:59.720]  I have a New York transplant.
[19:00.080 --> 19:01.220]  I've had to step in here.
[19:02.360 --> 19:07.200]  Let's move on to the next part of this document, which discusses the forgery charges.
[19:07.480 --> 19:07.800]  Yes.
[19:07.800 --> 19:11.580]  So the previous ones were all about lying about things that didn't happen.
[19:11.580 --> 19:14.860]  And now we're getting into actually forging people's signatures.
[19:15.340 --> 19:15.760]  Yes.
[19:15.960 --> 19:17.480]  Quote, MB family.
[19:18.060 --> 19:22.080]  Click submitted to DCS a tribal membership form required by DCS
[19:22.080 --> 19:26.920]  and reportedly signed by MB on December 28th, 2023.
[19:27.580 --> 19:32.220]  This date corresponds to a date in which Click reported a visit with MB at her Batesville home.
[19:32.760 --> 19:35.960]  MB said the visit never happened and she never signed any form for Click.
[19:36.260 --> 19:39.560]  I showed her the form and she confidently said, that is not my signature.
[19:39.560 --> 19:45.700]  This form is required by federal regulation under the Indian Child Welfare Act, the ICWA.
[19:46.360 --> 19:55.020]  Click submitted to DCS a safety plan form required by DCS and reportedly signed by MB on 2015-2024.
[19:55.780 --> 20:00.080]  This date corresponds to a visit at MB's Batesville home that did not occur.
[20:00.680 --> 20:06.240]  However, MB said the meeting lasted only five minutes and she never signed or discussed any forms.
[20:06.240 --> 20:10.740]  I showed her the form and she said confidently, no, that's not my signature.
[20:11.420 --> 20:15.980]  This form is required to develop an agreed action by the parent guardian custodian
[20:15.980 --> 20:19.040]  that will allow the child to be safe in their home.
[20:19.540 --> 20:23.460]  This is to help determine if an agreed upon action will allow the child to stay in their home
[20:23.460 --> 20:26.500]  or if detention removal is needed, end quote.
[20:27.540 --> 20:31.640]  OK, so I mean, yeah, that's, that's, I mean.
[20:32.420 --> 20:33.180]  It's self-evident.
[20:33.480 --> 20:33.980]  Yeah.
[20:33.980 --> 20:38.360]  Nobody's signature should be forged for any reason whatsoever.
[20:38.780 --> 20:39.760]  That's not good.
[20:40.040 --> 20:41.400]  That doesn't happen accidentally.
[20:42.180 --> 20:43.640]  That's not like an oops.
[20:44.000 --> 20:45.160]  That's not like an oversight.
[20:45.260 --> 20:49.640]  If you're forging someone else's signature, that's a choice you've made.
[20:50.040 --> 20:54.860]  And if you're a governmental officer, that just makes it more serious.
[20:55.180 --> 20:57.720]  And again, it's about the safety of kids, it's about safety of children.
[20:57.980 --> 20:59.080]  This is like, these are forms.
[20:59.240 --> 21:01.760]  They don't just exist to make busy work for people.
[21:01.760 --> 21:06.580]  They exist so there can be action plans, so there can be resources given.
[21:07.760 --> 21:08.880]  So it's it.
[21:08.880 --> 21:09.380]  Yeah.
[21:09.560 --> 21:10.120]  All right.
[21:10.580 --> 21:11.620]  So moving on to the next family.
[21:11.640 --> 21:12.100]  Yeah.
[21:12.120 --> 21:13.020]  Why don't you do that one?
[21:13.540 --> 21:15.460]  Why don't we do the next two families?
[21:15.500 --> 21:15.920]  How's that?
[21:15.920 --> 21:16.360]  OK.
[21:16.960 --> 21:18.260]  Quote A.B. family.
[21:18.640 --> 21:23.640]  Click submitted to DCS a consent to interview children form required by DCS and reportedly
[21:23.640 --> 21:26.660]  signed by A.B. on January 25th, 2024.
[21:27.240 --> 21:30.340]  This date is the same day of a forensic interview conducted with R.B.
[21:30.340 --> 21:35.400]  age nine at the Child Advocacy Center of Southeast Indiana in Greensburg.
[21:35.720 --> 21:40.520]  A.B. says is the first and only time he ever saw click, but he did not sign any
[21:40.520 --> 21:40.840]  forms.
[21:41.440 --> 21:45.360]  I showed A.B. the form and he confidently said, no, that is not my signature on
[21:45.360 --> 21:45.660]  that.
[21:46.220 --> 21:52.100]  According to an email from DCS local office director LOD Michelle Smith, per statute
[21:52.100 --> 21:56.480]  and policy, interviewing a subject child is pertinent in completing a thorough assessment.
[21:56.980 --> 21:59.820]  Consent to interview a child can be obtained in one of three ways.
[21:59.820 --> 22:05.080]  Obtaining a court order under exigent circumstances or with parental consent through
[22:05.080 --> 22:06.080]  signing this form.
[22:06.540 --> 22:08.540]  Verbal consent is last resort.
[22:08.820 --> 22:09.380]  End quote.
[22:10.280 --> 22:11.320]  T.W. family.
[22:11.440 --> 22:16.660]  Click submitted to DCS a tribal membership form required by DCS and reportedly
[22:16.660 --> 22:17.960]  signed by C.W.
[22:18.140 --> 22:21.560]  Guardian on 12-22-2023.
[22:22.200 --> 22:25.380]  This date corresponds with a home visit at 430 p.m.
[22:25.740 --> 22:26.940]  Click reported in magic.
[22:26.940 --> 22:28.640]  But both C.W.
[22:28.840 --> 22:29.420]  And M.W.
[22:29.460 --> 22:31.020]  Said the visit never happened.
[22:31.680 --> 22:31.920]  C.W.
[22:31.960 --> 22:35.360]  Said she has never met click and never signed any form for him.
[22:35.740 --> 22:36.220]  C.W.
[22:36.220 --> 22:39.500]  Was shown the document and said confidently when asked if it was her signature.
[22:39.720 --> 22:41.280]  No, no, it's not.
[22:41.540 --> 22:46.520]  Click submitted to DCS a consent to interview children form required by DCS and
[22:46.520 --> 22:47.900]  reportedly signed by C.W.
[22:47.940 --> 22:51.020]  Guardian on 12-22-2023.
[22:51.040 --> 22:54.080]  This date corresponds with a home visit at 430 p.m.
[22:54.180 --> 22:55.240]  Click reported in magic.
[22:55.240 --> 22:56.420]  But both C.W.
[22:56.480 --> 22:57.320]  And M.W.
[22:57.420 --> 22:58.440]  Say the visit never happened.
[22:59.140 --> 22:59.420]  C.W.
[22:59.440 --> 23:02.360]  Said she has never met click and never signed any form for him.
[23:02.460 --> 23:02.860]  C.W.
[23:02.860 --> 23:05.560]  Was shown the document and confidently said that's not my writing.
[23:05.780 --> 23:06.660]  End quote.
[23:07.120 --> 23:08.160]  But let's just finish it up.
[23:08.160 --> 23:08.340]  Yeah.
[23:08.340 --> 23:09.160]  There's only one more family.
[23:09.160 --> 23:09.480]  Sure.
[23:09.740 --> 23:10.140]  Quote.
[23:10.140 --> 23:10.980]  T.S. family.
[23:11.400 --> 23:17.440]  Click submitted to DCS a consent to interview children form required by DCS and
[23:17.440 --> 23:20.340]  reportedly signed by T.S. on 12-21-2023.
[23:21.100 --> 23:22.600]  This date corresponds with a date.
[23:22.600 --> 23:25.720]  Click reported in magic a home visit in Batesville.
[23:26.620 --> 23:27.140]  T.S.
[23:27.260 --> 23:31.600]  Said this visit never happened and she never signed any forms for click and has
[23:31.600 --> 23:34.020]  never met him and he has never been to her home.
[23:34.600 --> 23:36.460]  She may have talked to him over the phone.
[23:36.540 --> 23:40.100]  When I showed her the form, she confidently said that's not my signature.
[23:40.640 --> 23:44.680]  Click submitted to DCS a tribal membership form required by DCS and
[23:44.680 --> 23:47.900]  reportedly signed by T.S. on December 21, 2023.
[23:47.900 --> 23:49.960]  This date corresponds with a date.
[23:49.980 --> 23:52.740]  Click reported in magic a home visit in Batesville.
[23:52.960 --> 23:53.300]  T.S.
[23:53.380 --> 23:56.980]  Said the visit never happened and she never signed any forms for click and has
[23:56.980 --> 23:59.260]  never met him and he's never been to her home.
[23:59.500 --> 24:01.020]  She may have talked to him on the phone.
[24:01.400 --> 24:05.020]  When I showed her the form and asked her if that was her signature, she
[24:05.020 --> 24:06.340]  confidently said no.
[24:06.960 --> 24:10.500]  All seven of these forged documents were uploaded into the magic system by
[24:10.500 --> 24:13.660]  click or by a clerical employee having received them from click.
[24:13.660 --> 24:20.180]  As a public servant employed as FCM with DCS, I believe click knowingly or
[24:20.180 --> 24:25.060]  intentionally committed the offense of official misconduct by committing the
[24:25.060 --> 24:28.740]  above offenses in the performance of his official duties.
[24:29.300 --> 24:34.160]  While I have no information that his complete disregard for DCS policy and
[24:34.160 --> 24:38.940]  children's safety caused any actual harm, these crimes put at least five
[24:38.940 --> 24:44.360]  Ripley County families and 11 children in danger because he failed to
[24:44.360 --> 24:46.340]  perform his duties as he was trained.
[24:46.820 --> 24:47.360]  End quote.
[24:47.540 --> 24:52.340]  And again, this affidavit was prepared by Michael Lepper, a special
[24:52.340 --> 24:55.120]  agent with the Indiana officer of inspector general.
[24:55.820 --> 24:58.100]  There's certainly an undertone of disgust in Mr.
[24:58.260 --> 24:59.880]  Lepper's words there at the end.
[25:00.380 --> 25:04.520]  It is putting this I mean, if true, then he has put 11 children at
[25:04.520 --> 25:10.640]  risk because I mean, especially and just violated these families.
[25:10.900 --> 25:16.980]  I mean, whatever, whatever takes a family to DCS, it's not a good thing.
[25:17.840 --> 25:21.600]  There's issues and the children are going through that.
[25:21.720 --> 25:23.340]  The parents are going through that.
[25:23.820 --> 25:26.740]  Maybe sometimes the parents are the problem, but other times the parents
[25:26.740 --> 25:27.880]  are victims as well.
[25:27.900 --> 25:32.720]  Or one of the parents is or you know, the guardians are going through it.
[25:32.720 --> 25:36.800]  I mean, these are not little oopsie slips.
[25:37.860 --> 25:42.420]  It's about integrity and it's about these children's futures and what's
[25:42.420 --> 25:44.420]  going to happen to them and whether they're going to get the resources
[25:44.420 --> 25:48.360]  they need, whether the parents are giving consent for them to be
[25:48.360 --> 25:48.700]  interviewed.
[25:48.840 --> 25:53.660]  I mean, and here's an obvious point, but this is also a problem.
[25:53.780 --> 25:59.360]  Whenever you have a law enforcement official be accused and probable
[25:59.360 --> 26:04.180]  cause be found around them doing something that's dishonest, even if it has
[26:04.180 --> 26:06.440]  nothing to do with their original police work.
[26:06.680 --> 26:10.340]  You know, although I would argue that this does because this is Todd
[26:10.340 --> 26:13.460]  Klick serving in an investigative capacity for DCS.
[26:13.580 --> 26:15.100]  He's not necessarily an investigator.
[26:15.220 --> 26:19.320]  I'm not saying that, but this job has certain similarities as far as
[26:19.320 --> 26:22.920]  like you're supposed to be a credible person who will go out and do and
[26:22.920 --> 26:26.640]  say, you know, do what you said you did, get the signatures you said you
[26:26.640 --> 26:28.040]  got, upload it all.
[26:28.040 --> 26:31.760]  Like it requires a level of integrity and credibility to do this job.
[26:32.260 --> 26:37.520]  So when you have an investigator or former investigator essentially fall
[26:37.520 --> 26:42.360]  into trouble like this, it raises questions about what they were doing
[26:42.360 --> 26:44.940]  when they were still an investigator, when they were still a police
[26:44.940 --> 26:45.440]  officer.
[26:45.820 --> 26:46.340]  Yes.
[26:46.620 --> 26:50.280]  And the main reason we're paying attention to this, of course, is
[26:51.000 --> 26:52.500]  because of Mr.
[26:52.500 --> 26:58.540]  Klick's central role in the defense case in the case of Richard Allen.
[26:59.400 --> 27:01.960]  The defense has made much of Mr.
[27:02.380 --> 27:06.500]  Klick's investigative prowess and the things Mr.
[27:06.500 --> 27:11.960]  Klick allegedly uncovered in his investigation of Odinism.
[27:12.460 --> 27:14.680]  If we can't trust what Mr.
[27:14.680 --> 27:19.620]  Klick said about what he did in his day to day routine job with the
[27:19.620 --> 27:26.960]  I think it is natural for us to have some doubts about some of the things
[27:26.960 --> 27:30.960]  he may have said he did in terms of his investigation into Odinism.
[27:31.460 --> 27:35.980]  It really has quite an adverse effect on his credibility.
[27:36.540 --> 27:41.560]  And to be clear, we all know that Judge Francis Gull is not allowing
[27:41.560 --> 27:43.500]  Odinism into the trial.
[27:43.800 --> 27:45.860]  The jury will not hear about that.
[27:45.860 --> 27:51.840]  But at the trial, it very well could still be discussed.
[27:52.100 --> 27:53.200]  And here's how.
[27:54.020 --> 27:57.560]  Gull has essentially allowed the defense to do an offer of proof,
[27:57.620 --> 28:01.100]  which means that they can put on some of their Odinism defense,
[28:02.160 --> 28:04.260]  as long as the jury's out of the room at that time.
[28:04.520 --> 28:07.960]  So we could end up spending an awful lot of time on Odinism or
[28:07.960 --> 28:11.000]  whatever the defense wants to do as far as third party suspects.
[28:12.000 --> 28:13.420]  And the jury won't be there.
[28:13.440 --> 28:15.600]  It won't matter for that portion of trial.
[28:15.600 --> 28:18.300]  But it will matter as far as possible appeals.
[28:18.700 --> 28:21.560]  The reason you do an offer of proof is to kind of get it on the record,
[28:21.560 --> 28:24.900]  put it down so then when an appellate court reviews it,
[28:24.900 --> 28:26.460]  they can kind of consider it and say,
[28:26.480 --> 28:30.320]  okay, did the judge err in not allowing this or was this
[28:30.320 --> 28:31.940]  reasonable for her to throw it out?
[28:32.460 --> 28:33.940]  Did I summarize that okay?
[28:34.300 --> 28:34.660]  Yes.
[28:35.280 --> 28:35.580]  Okay.
[28:36.320 --> 28:39.300]  So we could end up spending a lot of time on Odinism.
[28:39.420 --> 28:40.420]  I mean, not necessarily.
[28:40.460 --> 28:45.320]  It's possible that after being sort of roundly defeated on that,
[28:45.320 --> 28:48.800]  they've moved on and they want to do, you know, something else.
[28:49.000 --> 28:49.500]  I don't know.
[28:49.720 --> 28:53.060]  But I'm just saying that we're not necessarily completely out of the
[28:53.060 --> 28:57.360]  Odinism woods yet because there is that offer of proof opportunity.
[28:57.360 --> 28:59.960]  And I would imagine that if they do choose,
[29:00.240 --> 29:05.620]  if Bradley, Rosie, Jennifer Ogier, and Andrew Baldwin choose to go ahead
[29:05.620 --> 29:10.000]  with some form of Odinism presentation during the offer of proof,
[29:10.560 --> 29:14.920]  Todd Click would be a very important person to talk to during that.
[29:14.920 --> 29:18.260]  Or at least he would have been up to these recent events.
[29:18.560 --> 29:23.740]  Yeah, I will be very curious to know what his version of events is.
[29:24.000 --> 29:27.920]  Is there something like, you know, what is his...
[29:29.060 --> 29:33.400]  In a situation like this where he's making claims in this magic system
[29:33.400 --> 29:35.740]  and uploading documents in the magic system,
[29:36.360 --> 29:40.340]  I have a hard time thinking of what the defense could be around like,
[29:40.460 --> 29:44.760]  hey, I didn't do this because that feels hard to conceptualize,
[29:44.760 --> 29:46.160]  but I'd be curious about what he has to say.
[29:46.400 --> 29:48.160]  And if you have multiple people saying,
[29:48.760 --> 29:53.220]  he said I signed this, that's not my signature, that's a problem.
[29:53.280 --> 29:55.680]  That is a problem. It's not good.
[29:57.460 --> 30:02.540]  And again, you know, maybe is this a situation where there's something
[30:02.540 --> 30:05.680]  bad happening in his life at the time and there were mistakes made?
[30:06.220 --> 30:09.180]  I'd be curious if it's going to be a guilty plea or if it's going to be
[30:09.180 --> 30:13.440]  he's going to fight it and try to give an explanation for why this
[30:13.440 --> 30:15.000]  happened without him being culpable.
[30:16.200 --> 30:20.800]  But, you know, it's just, yeah, I think it does have bearing and it does
[30:20.800 --> 30:23.440]  kind of raise questions in my mind about some of the things regarding
[30:24.380 --> 30:25.420]  Odinism, frankly.
[30:25.900 --> 30:27.120]  It raises even more questions.
[30:27.140 --> 30:29.540]  It raises more questions. Again, we're...
[30:29.540 --> 30:32.640]  Jury's not going to hear it, but we certainly spent a year
[30:32.640 --> 30:34.920]  being told all about this.
[30:35.840 --> 30:39.420]  This theory dominated this case for a year.
[30:40.040 --> 30:41.660]  You know, we are a year...
[30:41.660 --> 30:44.800]  We took a year detour, okay?
[30:45.660 --> 30:52.300]  This case was ultimately dragged on, I feel, in some regards
[30:52.300 --> 30:54.640]  with this Odinism thing.
[30:55.180 --> 30:59.020]  And I thought it was a theory that didn't really ultimately
[30:59.020 --> 31:01.300]  hold much water once we got to that three-day trial.
[31:01.840 --> 31:03.340]  Three-day mini trial, I guess.
[31:03.340 --> 31:07.380]  And during the discussion of Odinism, at least from the defense,
[31:07.380 --> 31:11.920]  we were often told what a great investigator Todd Click was.
[31:12.340 --> 31:17.640]  And if these allegations are proven true, I think it is fair to say
[31:17.640 --> 31:19.900]  that he is not a great investigator at all.
[31:20.580 --> 31:22.580]  What, I mean, I'm curious, Kevin, what would be, like,
[31:22.620 --> 31:26.120]  the next step for this case, a case like this?
[31:26.440 --> 31:28.080]  Like, should we expect...
[31:28.080 --> 31:30.340]  I believe there's a hearing scheduled in a few days,
[31:30.440 --> 31:35.960]  and Todd Click's counsel has filed a motion to set a bond.
[31:35.960 --> 31:38.760]  That means he wants to no longer be incarcerated.
[31:38.780 --> 31:42.040]  He wants to be free, which is an understandable thing.
[31:42.960 --> 31:46.040]  Yeah, and I would imagine that in a case like this,
[31:46.100 --> 31:47.820]  it's not a violent crime.
[31:47.980 --> 31:52.200]  I mean, that seems like it would be likely for him to receive something.
[31:53.880 --> 31:56.960]  But yeah, I mean, I think you picked up on the...
[31:57.940 --> 31:58.860]  What was it?
[31:59.960 --> 32:02.820]  Like, the kind of disgust from the investigator,
[32:02.820 --> 32:06.700]  and I definitely heard that as well in this.
[32:07.420 --> 32:07.860]  Anything else?
[32:08.380 --> 32:09.600]  Yeah, we can kind of wrap it up.
[32:09.900 --> 32:11.960]  Okay, well, thank you for listening,
[32:12.520 --> 32:14.400]  and unless there's further developments,
[32:14.440 --> 32:16.020]  you won't hear from us until at least Monday.
[32:16.300 --> 32:17.100]  All right, thanks, everyone.
[32:17.260 --> 32:17.580]  Bye.
[32:18.580 --> 32:20.800]  Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet.
[32:21.500 --> 32:24.380]  If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover,
[32:24.920 --> 32:29.280]  please email us at murdersheetatgmail.com.
[32:29.280 --> 32:33.600]  If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime,
[32:34.240 --> 32:36.600]  please report it to the appropriate authorities.
[32:37.760 --> 32:39.860]  If you're interested in joining our Patreon,
[32:40.220 --> 32:46.700]  that's available at www.patreon.com slash murder sheet.
[32:47.400 --> 32:50.440]  If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests,
[32:51.000 --> 32:57.140]  you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murder sheet.
[32:57.140 --> 33:00.260]  We very much appreciate any support.
[33:01.120 --> 33:03.220]  Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee,
[33:03.380 --> 33:05.620]  who composed the music for The Murder Sheet,
[33:05.820 --> 33:09.920]  and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.
[33:10.420 --> 33:12.780]  If you're looking to talk with other listeners
[33:12.780 --> 33:14.080]  about a case we've covered,
[33:14.580 --> 33:17.600]  you can join The Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook.
[33:18.260 --> 33:21.100]  We mostly focus our time on research and reporting,
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[33:24.020 --> 33:26.120]  We do try to check our email account,
[33:26.120 --> 33:30.040]  but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages.
[33:30.700 --> 33:31.840]  Thanks again for listening.
[33:34.420 --> 33:37.640]  Thanks so much for sticking around to the end of this Murder Sheet episode.
[33:37.840 --> 33:39.380]  Just as a quick post-roll ad,
[33:39.500 --> 33:43.420]  we wanted to tell you again about our friend Jason Blair's
[33:43.420 --> 33:45.420]  wonderful Silver Linings Handbook.
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[33:48.240 --> 33:50.360]  Whether you are interested in true crime,
[33:50.460 --> 33:53.160]  the criminal justice system, law, mental health,
[33:53.580 --> 33:55.520]  stories of marginalized people,
[33:55.520 --> 33:59.240]  overcoming tragedy, well-being, he does it all.
[33:59.540 --> 34:00.720]  This is a show for you.
[34:01.160 --> 34:04.660]  He has so many different conversations with interesting people,
[34:05.080 --> 34:07.040]  people whose loved ones have gone missing,
[34:08.660 --> 34:11.260]  other podcasters in the true crime space,
[34:12.100 --> 34:15.040]  just interesting people with interesting life experiences.
[34:16.540 --> 34:18.120]  And Jason's gift, I think,
[34:18.140 --> 34:20.740]  is just being an incredibly empathetic and compassionate interviewer,
[34:21.400 --> 34:23.820]  where he's really letting his guests tell their stories
[34:23.820 --> 34:26.740]  and asking really interesting questions along the way,
[34:26.980 --> 34:28.520]  guiding those conversations forward.
[34:29.000 --> 34:32.040]  I would liken it to like you're kind of almost sitting down with friends
[34:32.040 --> 34:34.720]  and sort of just hearing these fascinating tales
[34:34.720 --> 34:36.280]  that you wouldn't get otherwise,
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[34:40.520 --> 34:43.280]  and really make it interesting for his audience.
[34:44.000 --> 34:46.980]  On a personal level, Jason is frankly a great guy.
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[34:47.420 --> 34:49.620]  He's been a really good friend to us,
[34:49.620 --> 34:54.060]  and so it's fun to be able to hit a button on my phone
[34:54.060 --> 34:57.700]  and get a little dose of Jason talking to people whenever I want.
[34:58.080 --> 34:59.480]  It's a really terrific show.
[35:00.160 --> 35:01.640]  We really recommend it highly.
[35:01.940 --> 35:03.580]  Yeah, I think our audience will like it.
[35:03.580 --> 35:06.240]  And you've already met Jason, if you listen consistently to our show.
[35:06.240 --> 35:07.600]  He's been on our show a couple times.
[35:07.660 --> 35:08.640]  We've been on his show.
[35:09.160 --> 35:10.280]  He's a terrific guest.
[35:10.740 --> 35:12.820]  I say this in one of our ads about him,
[35:12.820 --> 35:14.160]  but I literally always am like,
[35:14.160 --> 35:15.880]  Oh, yeah, I remember when Jason said this.
[35:15.880 --> 35:16.720]  That really resonated.
[35:16.840 --> 35:20.000]  I do quote him in conversation sometimes,
[35:20.020 --> 35:22.440]  because he really has a good grasp of different complicated issues.
[35:22.440 --> 35:23.720]  She quotes him to me all the time.
[35:23.860 --> 35:25.400]  I'm like, remember when Jason said this?
[35:25.400 --> 35:26.080]  That was so right.
[35:26.660 --> 35:29.500]  So I think if we're doing that and you like us,
[35:30.060 --> 35:31.700]  I think you should give it a shot, give it a try.
[35:31.780 --> 35:32.940]  I think you'll really enjoy it.
[35:33.300 --> 35:34.980]  And again, he does arrange different topics,
[35:34.980 --> 35:38.420]  but they all kind of have this similar theme of compassion,
[35:39.080 --> 35:41.280]  of overcoming suffering, of dealing with suffering,
[35:41.280 --> 35:44.120]  of mental health, wellness, things like that.
[35:44.240 --> 35:47.240]  There's kind of a common through line of compassion and empathy there
[35:47.240 --> 35:49.340]  that I think we find very nice.
[35:49.840 --> 35:53.000]  And we work on a lot of stories that can be very tough,
[35:53.020 --> 35:55.080]  and we try to bring compassion and empathy to it.
[35:55.080 --> 35:57.180]  But this is something that almost can be like,
[35:57.220 --> 35:59.080]  if you're kind of feeling a little burned out by true crime,
[35:59.220 --> 36:01.240]  I think this is kind of the life-affirming stuff
[36:02.140 --> 36:04.960]  that can be nice to listen to in a podcast.
[36:06.260 --> 36:07.060]  It's compassionate.
[36:07.800 --> 36:08.600]  It's affirming.
[36:08.600 --> 36:11.360]  But I also want to emphasize it's smart.
[36:13.740 --> 36:17.380]  Jason is a very intelligent, articulate person.
[36:17.480 --> 36:20.540]  This is a smart show, but it's an accessible show.
[36:21.040 --> 36:22.880]  I think you'll all really enjoy it.
[36:23.000 --> 36:25.060]  Yeah, and he's got a great community that he's building.
[36:25.120 --> 36:26.600]  So we're really excited to be a part of that.
[36:26.980 --> 36:28.760]  We're fans of the show. We love it.
[36:28.760 --> 36:31.440]  And we would strongly encourage you all to check it out.
[36:31.500 --> 36:32.860]  Download some episodes, listen.
[36:33.000 --> 36:35.880]  I think you'll understand what we're talking about once you do.
[36:35.880 --> 36:39.200]  But anyways, you can listen to The Silver Linings handbook
[36:39.200 --> 36:40.460]  wherever you listen to podcasts.
[36:40.900 --> 36:41.940]  Wherever you listen to podcasts.
[36:42.060 --> 36:42.940]  Very easy to find.
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