[00:02.300 --> 00:12.480]  I'll tell you, where you go. Time's all over me now.
[00:12.920 --> 00:23.080]  I'll tell you, where you go. Time's all over me now.
[01:16.390 --> 01:31.070]  All right. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome to Defense Diaries. I'm your host, Bob Mata, and this is our continuing coverage of the people of the state of Indiana versus Richard Allen.
[01:31.070 --> 01:46.690]  And this is day five, part two. We had to take a quick break so I could fulfill a commitment to my buddy Vinny over there on Core TV. Went over there and hung out for a bit. Now we're back.
[01:48.010 --> 01:54.930]  So just a little bit of a kind of a little bit of a rewind, a recap of what we've already talked about.
[01:54.930 --> 02:10.090]  We talked about the first witness of the day, who was one of the eyewitnesses, Sarah Carbaugh. Very interesting witness. Witness who I felt at the end of the day really came off as not credible.
[02:10.990 --> 02:17.050]  And not because of necessarily what she was saying, but because of her unwarranted reactions.
[02:18.490 --> 02:32.830]  I've never seen an eyewitness who's just somebody who happened upon a scene or saw something that's testifying get this combative with a defense attorney, like in any case.
[02:32.830 --> 02:38.530]  Just it's very rare, you know, the combative ones are the ones that have something at stake.
[02:39.270 --> 03:02.010]  You know, it's the ones that are the defendants, you know, it's it's law enforcement, if they're being crossed by defense attorneys like it's those kind of witnesses like just, you know, eyewitnesses that are lay people that just saw something and are just coming in to testify, you just don't see them getting that animated.
[03:02.010 --> 03:09.850]  And she was strange and like that wasn't just me thinking that like this is like everybody I talked to.
[03:10.150 --> 03:25.650]  I had lunch with Barb McDonald and like we were both like what was going on with Sarah Carbaugh. We were both like, man, I wish that thing would have been streamed like she would have Jay would have done like 10 videos like shorts on her because she like she was a gold mine of shorts.
[03:26.090 --> 03:29.070]  We're doing this again. Is that what we're doing this again.
[03:29.070 --> 03:32.550]  I was like, what in the world is going on?
[03:33.410 --> 03:36.150]  So we moved on from Sarah,
[03:37.510 --> 03:42.870]  who ultimately kind of in the scope of the state's timeline.
[03:42.870 --> 03:52.930]  And they really kind of need her to be credible because she's the person that would have bridge guy
[03:54.710 --> 04:05.030]  walking back post crime down the street towards his car in a time frame that works with their timeline.
[04:05.790 --> 04:12.530]  So to have her kind of come out and in my estimation,
[04:14.030 --> 04:15.990]  really performed very poorly.
[04:17.230 --> 04:30.890]  I think really hurt the state in terms of their eyewitnesses like none of their four eyewitnesses with the exception of Betsy Blair, who's to be continued.
[04:30.890 --> 04:52.170]  I promise you this, Betsy Blair is getting called again, primarily because of that beyond the scope objection by the state when they tried to get in to her timeline as to when she came back and what she saw or didn't see in the OPS parking lot on
[04:53.630 --> 04:58.710]  the 13th at around 2 15 like her testimony.
[05:00.190 --> 05:03.210]  If it goes as the defense thinks it's going to go.
[05:04.590 --> 05:10.910]  It's going to be pretty powerful for the state in terms of attacking the timeline. You guys know.
[05:11.830 --> 05:17.110]  I'm always talking about attacking the old timeline. It's one of those things that
[05:17.690 --> 05:26.270]  It's good to do when there's a lot of gaping holes in timeline. If you can attack a timeline, you know what you do? You attack the timeline.
[05:27.710 --> 05:33.370]  Sometimes, you know, a lot of times, not a lot of times, but sometimes you'll have the timelines in stone. There is no attacking it.
[05:33.950 --> 05:39.250]  They got you cornered. You're cornered in. There's no moving. Stuck in that timeline.
[05:40.330 --> 05:43.510]  But this ain't that case. I'm here to tell you.
[05:43.510 --> 05:45.250]  I'm here to tell you.
[05:46.210 --> 05:51.290]  Alright, so then we went into the autopsy, which I probably...
[05:51.290 --> 05:59.910]  And again, I keep forgetting to say it about all of the eyewitnesses. Not one of them has been asked, nor have they offered
[06:00.510 --> 06:08.110]  by either side an in court identification of Rick Allen saying that's bridge guy. That's the guy I saw. Not one.
[06:08.470 --> 06:12.550]  So you take that for whatever it's worth. You take that for whatever it's worth.
[06:13.150 --> 06:20.490]  You know, it's like I saw people on Twitter trying to come with, oh, well, you know, he was wearing a mask. He had his head down.
[06:22.690 --> 06:29.330]  Not Carbaugh. She said she saw him. She said they didn't make eye contact. She said she saw the guy's ear lobes. She got a good look at him.
[06:30.290 --> 06:34.710]  No ID. No in court ID. Not one ID by any of the four witnesses.
[06:35.930 --> 06:41.990]  Only one of them saying that he had a face cover on made an identification of Richard Allen in court.
[06:41.990 --> 06:48.890]  So you give that whatever weight you all choose to give it. And I'll give it the weight that I choose to give it.
[06:50.030 --> 06:57.930]  So then we of course got into the autopsies by a good doctor.
[07:00.210 --> 07:09.590]  And I probably should have given a bit of a trigger. The autopsies are hard to listen to. They're very, very clinical, obviously.
[07:09.590 --> 07:22.010]  You know, if you've ever had the opportunity to listen to a forensic pathologist speak just in general or testify in court,
[07:23.010 --> 07:28.990]  they are very matter of fact. They have removed all emotion from what their job is.
[07:28.990 --> 07:39.150]  They're just coming in talking as matter of factly as they can about what they observed, what their autopsy showed.
[07:39.150 --> 07:45.370]  And then they render opinions if they can. And there's no emotion involved with it.
[07:45.430 --> 07:52.290]  You know, and the fact of the matter is that you have this dyotomy going on in that courtroom.
[07:52.450 --> 07:57.250]  Because as I was talking about, when you have proof of death witnesses,
[07:58.230 --> 08:08.230]  that is unequivocally the hardest time for family members of the victims to be in that courtroom because you're hearing the details.
[08:08.230 --> 08:15.730]  But I talked to Anna Williams today and I was saying, I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this and I know how hard it is.
[08:16.590 --> 08:25.710]  And she said something. She's like, well, you know, she's like kind of like finally getting to hear like exactly what happened.
[08:27.670 --> 08:35.910]  Like kind of worked for me. You know, it's like it was kind of a relief to like finally know what happened, you know, because like I said,
[08:35.910 --> 08:49.830]  law enforcement's never informing, at least in my experience, never informing the family of all the details of their investigation and all the things that a family might be wondering as, you know, the case progresses.
[08:51.090 --> 08:55.550]  And so, you know, I felt for her deeply.
[08:55.550 --> 09:08.350]  So, yeah, you know, it's just having the clinical side like battling the emotion of seeing what you're seeing is such a strange thing to have occur.
[09:08.350 --> 09:25.590]  And it's painful to be in there, you know, but like when I'm like, and like I was saying on the first live tonight, you know, for me, who's not real good about just kind of blood in general, it makes me uncomfortable.
[09:26.390 --> 09:33.730]  It's weird. I don't know why that is. It's just always like the sight of blood just makes me uncomfortable, like extremely uncomfortable.
[09:33.730 --> 09:47.830]  But when I'm like, in the middle of looking at an autopsy, it's just it comes across like so clinical, it's almost like it's textbook, you know, you're looking at, you know, physiology.
[09:48.110 --> 09:52.790]  It's just it feels different in some kind of way is as strange as that sounds.
[09:52.970 --> 10:01.110]  It's just it doesn't feel the same because it's like, you know, you're looking at some of these wounds that they were putting up on the big 85 inch screen.
[10:01.110 --> 10:11.350]  And it was, you know, typically I'd be like, oh, like, but like if like if I see that same picture of the crime scene, it's hard for me to look at it.
[10:11.430 --> 10:22.570]  Whereas when I can see the wound that has been cleaned and he's just giving a clinical description of the wound as he sees it and he's opining on certain things, it's different.
[10:22.730 --> 10:25.610]  It's weird. It's kind of weird how the brain works like that.
[10:25.610 --> 10:38.510]  So anyway, we made it through his direct by Luttrell and remember it ended with the question about the time of death and asking him if he had determined a time of death.
[10:38.550 --> 10:43.350]  And he said, it's like with with any kind of precision. No, I didn't.
[10:43.530 --> 10:53.330]  And he said, you know, with the condition of the bodies, as they were, it's consistent with them having died 40 to 41 hours before the autopsy.
[10:53.330 --> 11:02.830]  And I know the press was running out there and like posting that and reporting on that as if that was like some in stone time of death.
[11:02.850 --> 11:08.530]  And I'm here to tell you that is not an in stone time of death, not in any way, shape or form.
[11:09.510 --> 11:15.270]  OK, so Rosie then conducts the cross examination.
[11:16.110 --> 11:22.890]  He starts by asking the doctor whether or not he recalls taking a deposition with them.
[11:22.890 --> 11:25.790]  And this year that deposition took place.
[11:26.670 --> 11:28.510]  And he says, yes, yes, I do.
[11:28.770 --> 11:30.690]  And he said that, you know, you were under oath, correct?
[11:30.710 --> 11:34.470]  He says, yes, I was. And you also waived signature of the transcripts, correct?
[11:34.810 --> 11:44.950]  Because typically in a deposition, you have the option of being able to review the transcript and then signing off to check to see if it's accurate,
[11:44.950 --> 11:51.930]  see if there's anything that you want corrected, if there's any typos, things that you're convinced that you didn't say.
[11:51.930 --> 12:00.070]  Because remember, I mean, you do have old school, typically stenographers in there with the machine, depending on who you're hiring these days.
[12:00.130 --> 12:04.470]  Some of them have the recorders and they're they're listening and then transcribing it.
[12:04.470 --> 12:09.950]  But some of them still use the old the old machines, those three button weird machines.
[12:09.990 --> 12:14.550]  I don't even know how that work. And so he says, yeah, I waived signature.
[12:15.390 --> 12:26.530]  And then the first question he asks him in direct rebuttal of the last thing he said to Luttrell was and he says, we're going to talk about Abby first.
[12:26.750 --> 12:31.410]  And he says, you don't know when she died, do you? And he says, no, I don't.
[12:31.650 --> 12:37.290]  And he was very credible. Like there was no part like he wasn't getting defensive with Rosie.
[12:37.290 --> 12:42.530]  He's he's a clinician like the guys, you know, he's a lab guy.
[12:42.530 --> 12:47.970]  He's a science guy. He's a, you know, he's not up there to play games.
[12:47.970 --> 12:57.010]  He's just up there to relay exactly what he saw during his autopsies and report back to the triers of fact, the jury.
[12:57.130 --> 13:01.530]  This is what I saw. These were my observations. I'm going to be honest about everything.
[13:01.590 --> 13:05.030]  You know, if I opine something, I'm going to tell you if it's speculative.
[13:05.030 --> 13:10.750]  I'm not going to pretend things that I'm saying that I know are speculative are fact.
[13:11.170 --> 13:17.070]  I'm going to tell you they're speculative. And he did that throughout the course of his testimony, which I always respect.
[13:17.610 --> 13:25.250]  You know, I mean, yes, technically he's an employee of the state, but I didn't get any sense from him
[13:25.930 --> 13:31.930]  that he was a hired gun, except for maybe the issue with the box cutter,
[13:31.930 --> 13:39.670]  because if you don't know anything about the box cutter, the box cutter kind of reared its its head.
[13:40.130 --> 13:50.810]  In this case, recently, where it came out that somebody had said that, you know, as part of his employment at CBS,
[13:52.010 --> 14:00.610]  that Alan is always supplied with box cutters. So, you know, what I know about box cutters and I use them all the time,
[14:00.610 --> 14:10.050]  I use them to open boxes. And it's a razor blade. If you've ever used a box cutter, it's a very thin razor blade.
[14:11.830 --> 14:18.850]  When we get to, we'll get to that. I have long thoughts on a lot of the whole box cutter theory, and that's exactly what it is.
[14:18.850 --> 14:32.050]  And nothing more. So he said that there was a quote from one of his, and I think that it was his deposition,
[14:33.090 --> 14:39.830]  where the good doctor, Dr. Core, had said, in terms of time of death, that, you know,
[14:39.830 --> 14:46.050]  she died sometime between the last time that she was seen and when she was discovered.
[14:48.170 --> 14:53.490]  And that sums it up. I mean, we could pretty much end the cross right here in terms of time of death.
[14:54.130 --> 14:58.330]  Because that's it. I mean, he's telling, he's unequivocally saying, I don't know when she died.
[14:58.810 --> 15:05.610]  It was sometime between the last time that she was seen by somebody and when she was discovered.
[15:05.610 --> 15:10.090]  I mean, that's as honest of an answer as you can get.
[15:13.250 --> 15:19.330]  Alright, so... and Rosie's cross was not lengthy. Like, I mean, Rosie is very efficient.
[15:19.430 --> 15:23.930]  He's very economical with his cross examinations. That's why I find him to be very effective.
[15:24.670 --> 15:34.090]  He's very strong on cross examination. I like his style a lot. I think that both of them are very good on cross.
[15:34.090 --> 15:39.350]  I thought McClelland... I actually like his style on direct a lot too.
[15:40.290 --> 15:47.390]  He, like, McClelland and when we get to Chris Cecil, who was the last witness of the day, the digital forensic guy.
[15:47.830 --> 15:53.950]  First of all, Nick Booms. When he speaks in that courtroom, you hear him. There's no craning.
[15:53.950 --> 16:04.130]  Nick always keeps his voice up. And what he does, his approach is... explain it to...
[16:04.130 --> 16:08.870]  He takes the explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old approach, which I love.
[16:09.490 --> 16:16.650]  Because he's doing that. He'll act like he doesn't understand it, but he's really doing it for the benefit of the jury.
[16:16.810 --> 16:23.490]  It's a really nice move because you're not making the jury feel like you're saying that they're stupid
[16:23.490 --> 16:27.030]  and that you need to break this down like they're children. He's putting it on him.
[16:27.210 --> 16:32.470]  He's saying, look, I don't understand a cell phone. Like, I know how to text and take a picture.
[16:32.950 --> 16:38.650]  And so you got to really break this down for me so that I get it. You know, and that's always his habit.
[16:38.750 --> 16:45.610]  And it's... I think it's an effective way to really make sure that things are broken down
[16:45.610 --> 16:52.110]  into a way that the jury is going to understand clearly what they're talking about, especially if it's complex in nature
[16:52.110 --> 16:59.850]  in terms of especially when you get into tech type stuff. So I actually enjoy Nick's directs.
[16:59.870 --> 17:11.950]  I think he does a good job with them. So Rosie then gets into the fact he's still hanging around in the time of death issue.
[17:12.030 --> 17:17.590]  And he says, you've seen the photographs. Obviously, you saw the photographs from the scene, I assume.
[17:17.590 --> 17:26.450]  He says, yes, I have. And from those photos, they didn't help you in any way, shape or form determine a time of death, did they?
[17:26.490 --> 17:35.010]  And he says, no, they didn't. So then he gets into the sharp force injury and he's talking about a sharp edge
[17:35.770 --> 17:42.230]  that he could not draw conclusions as to the type of weapon. So Rosie gets that out early.
[17:42.230 --> 17:50.410]  So he's already testified that, you know, he kind of had this epiphany. And I'm talking about Dr. Core when he was in his shop.
[17:50.930 --> 18:01.110]  And, you know, he saw a box cutter. He's like, hmm, that handle on the box cutter kind of looks like those strange abrasions that are above this gaping wound on the right side of her neck.
[18:01.610 --> 18:08.410]  Or maybe it's the left side. I think it was the left side. And he says, you know, maybe that's what it is.
[18:08.410 --> 18:12.850]  You know, and then like my mind, I'm sitting there in the courtroom and my mind starts racing.
[18:12.950 --> 18:17.930]  You know, it's like I'm sitting here like trying to take very diligent notes.
[18:18.730 --> 18:26.090]  I'm trying to make as many observations of what's going on with the witness, what's going on with the lawyer, what's going on with the jury.
[18:26.530 --> 18:35.290]  And while I'm trying to take notes, because, you know, I kind of like with Vinny the other night, I was on two nights ago.
[18:35.290 --> 18:38.870]  I was like, ah, you know, I mean, you guys don't want to hear all these details. He's like, we do.
[18:39.690 --> 18:43.770]  He's like, this thing is not being, you know, broadcast to the world.
[18:43.890 --> 18:50.110]  He's like, we're relying on you guys in there. And I'm like, well, yeah, that kind of, you know, so I feel an obligation to you guys.
[18:50.330 --> 19:04.450]  I feel I really do, you know, and it's I know and I feel so happy that that Andrea and Lear are there, too, because I know between the three of us that we're not going to miss anything.
[19:04.450 --> 19:09.490]  And all three of us are defense attorneys and all three of us are fact oriented.
[19:09.690 --> 19:16.930]  And all three of us, while we may have our defense slant, like I'm always going to be objective about anything.
[19:17.130 --> 19:20.910]  When there's bad evidence for either side, I'm going to point it out.
[19:21.070 --> 19:26.710]  I mean, that's what I'm here for. Like, I'm not cheerleading for anybody in this case.
[19:27.130 --> 19:33.770]  I mean, the only thing that I'm cheerleading for as an eventuality is that the girls and their families get justice.
[19:33.770 --> 19:45.690]  And that's unequivocal. I just like whether or not that's going to happen at this trial remains unknown, because where this trial is on day five.
[19:46.730 --> 20:01.990]  The state has a long way to go, in my opinion, to convince that jury, because we just have not seen any kind of smoking gun evidence, anything that puts Richard Allen as the murderer of Abby and Libby.
[20:01.990 --> 20:14.670]  So and that's and I mean, that's where we're at in my mind. Now, I could go talk to somebody on the, you know, behind me or next to me, and they could be like, man, they're putting on a hell of a case.
[20:15.030 --> 20:24.750]  This guy's screwed. You know, I mean, everything is to our own perception, you know, and it's like I always say, it's like, I'm never not going to be a defense attorney.
[20:24.910 --> 20:30.470]  My brain operates like that. I'm always going to look at things, but I'm hyper conscious of that.
[20:30.470 --> 20:40.910]  I'm aware of the fact that I am a defense attorney and I look through things through a defense lens. I can't undo that part of my psyche that's never going to go away.
[20:41.050 --> 20:50.210]  It's what I did for a very, very long time. And I was I was pretty good at it, you know, so I just look at things that way. I analyze things that way.
[20:50.250 --> 20:53.730]  I always analyze them from the perspective of what I did for a living.
[20:55.150 --> 21:07.790]  Notwithstanding that, when I'm sitting behind the bar, the wall that separates the well of the courtroom from the gallery, I'm able to look at this thing objectively.
[21:07.790 --> 21:22.730]  You know, it's interesting. It's really interesting to be at a trial. This is the first time I've gone. I'll attend an entire trial where I'm not trying the case.
[21:23.270 --> 21:33.170]  Completely different experience. Completely different. It's wild. I actually really enjoy it. I really do.
[21:33.170 --> 21:40.910]  All right, so so again, they're talking about the sharp force injury. This is a very important point that Rosie got out.
[21:41.090 --> 21:51.490]  He's talking about with sharp edges, sharp edge injuries. In this particular case, he cannot draw a conclusion as to the as to the type of weapon used.
[21:51.810 --> 21:57.490]  That's very important. It rebuts the concept of that. He's saying that it was a box cutter.
[21:57.490 --> 22:04.370]  It just it enhances the fact that that is merely a thought that popped into his head.
[22:05.210 --> 22:10.550]  OK, like he's not saying that that that wound was caused by a box cutter.
[22:11.450 --> 22:19.490]  And frankly, when he's talking about the wound itself, he has no idea what caused the the large incisions.
[22:20.270 --> 22:28.490]  The incisor wounds. He's talking about these strange, this five kind of like the almost look like indentations.
[22:29.350 --> 22:31.890]  I don't even know that there are abrasions.
[22:32.410 --> 22:44.490]  And when I'm thinking when I was sitting there thinking to myself as this testimony was going on, I'm like, look, I'm like, how are you able to like, how are you holding a box cutter?
[22:44.550 --> 22:47.010]  And if you've ever used a box cutter, they're small.
[22:47.010 --> 22:49.950]  You know, they really do. They fit in the palm of your hand.
[22:50.350 --> 22:56.830]  You know, it's got a the angular, the tip of the razor blade looks like this and it pokes out.
[22:56.910 --> 23:04.390]  I'm sure most of you have seen a box cutter before, you know, and you can slide the blade out a little more or retract it.
[23:04.570 --> 23:08.450]  You know, but you have to hold on to the thing. You know, you're holding in your hand.
[23:08.450 --> 23:20.090]  I don't ever see how your would like it would have to be that the box cutter was getting pressed for some reason on the neck because otherwise you released the box cutter.
[23:20.490 --> 23:27.030]  Like I was trying to figure out the mechanics of how a box cutter would have left those those marks on her neck.
[23:30.770 --> 23:35.990]  So he says, you know, a pocket knife to a kitchen knife. Those are considered sharp edge.
[23:35.990 --> 23:41.070]  He said, you know, there's short bladed long bladed. It could be any of those things.
[23:41.090 --> 23:47.990]  You know, and then he says that he could not determine the handedness from the injuries.
[23:48.710 --> 23:58.710]  Significant. So all of you that are wondering if they were able to use able to pick is able to give an educated guess as to what hand it was.
[23:59.110 --> 24:02.090]  He didn't can't.
[24:02.090 --> 24:06.330]  Now, he thought that Abby's one wound that she sustained.
[24:06.830 --> 24:15.710]  He thought that it went right to left. But again, he's like, that doesn't help me determine handedness because I don't know what the position of the killer was.
[24:16.290 --> 24:23.290]  I don't know if the killer was behind the girls. I don't know if the killer was in front. I don't know what hand the killer is using.
[24:23.410 --> 24:28.170]  So he's like that. That's not something that I can tell you.
[24:28.170 --> 24:34.610]  He said that death here would not have been instantaneous.
[24:35.150 --> 24:37.690]  OK, and he said that it could have gone anywhere.
[24:38.210 --> 24:46.910]  You know, the girls could have lived depending if they're, you know, like especially Abby with one wound, she could have slowed the loss of blood.
[24:47.530 --> 24:54.530]  You know, if she's got her hand around her neck on the wound, which, you know, the doctor said you're instinctual when he's talking about the autopsy.
[24:54.530 --> 25:09.370]  That's why he always looks at the hands. Obviously, he's like even in gunshot cases that oftentimes I'll find bullet wounds in hands because our instinct when somebody is trying to harm us to put your hands up to protect yourself.
[25:09.610 --> 25:20.230]  You know, so that's why oftentimes in, you know, murders that involve sharp force objects, you're going to see defensive wounds on the hands because the person is trying to fight off the knife.
[25:20.230 --> 25:25.990]  And you have only your hands to use unless you have something that you can pick up to try to block.
[25:27.010 --> 25:49.310]  So, but this becomes a significant point. This fact that the girls aren't dying instantly, that there's this period of time that they're still alive, that they're, you know, they're bleeding out and depending on what they're able to do in terms of stopping the flow of blood.
[25:49.310 --> 26:17.590]  You know, really is a big determining factor in how long before the girls fell unconscious. So, Rosie asked him it's fair to conclude that it's, it's fair to conclude that they may have had the ability to run around to scream during this four to 10 minutes.
[26:17.590 --> 26:29.610]  That they, that they lived, you know, and that Rosie then asks the question, he's like, and I just want to be clear that the trachea was not damaged.
[26:31.010 --> 26:33.910]  The windpipe, and that the girls were still breathing.
[26:35.530 --> 26:41.310]  Which means that there was no obstruction in their mouth. They had the ability to be able to scream.
[26:42.450 --> 26:55.890]  You know, which has always been a thing that's bothered me about this case and I know that Alison and I have talked about the concept of, you know, these, these trails back there.
[26:55.890 --> 26:59.450]  And with the next time I go out, and
[27:01.970 --> 27:04.510]  I'm hoping to get out there with
[27:05.930 --> 27:06.970]  our benefactor.
[27:08.170 --> 27:14.510]  And he's got a drone that apparently he operates and we're going to try to go out there we're going to try to get some drone footage.
[27:15.430 --> 27:20.310]  But what I really want to do is I want to catch a little critter walking around
[27:21.550 --> 27:28.030]  somewhere maybe like when I was on the high bridge I like I said I heard something small
[27:29.150 --> 27:31.950]  rustling around in the leaves and I thought it was like a deer.
[27:32.990 --> 27:46.810]  It was it was and I'm talking I was like 20, 20, 30 feet away from it and if not more 40 feet. I couldn't even tell where in the woods it was coming from. Point being, it's very quiet. Sound carries.
[27:46.810 --> 27:51.290]  You know this concept that like there were still people in the area.
[27:52.710 --> 27:56.910]  If this happened at the time that the state is alleging that it happened.
[27:58.070 --> 28:10.730]  You know I had a similar circumstance in the Garcia case which I know I talk about all the time blah blah blah you know whatever, but you know there we had an offender that allegedly according to the state's timeline which we
[28:10.730 --> 28:18.990]  bought the timeline in that we didn't think the girls were killed anywhere near the time they did and we based that on science in terms of rigor mortis.
[28:19.490 --> 28:29.550]  But one of the other factors that this happened in a bedroom neighborhood on a Sunday and a mother's day and a beautiful day every like first nice day of the spring everybody's out.
[28:31.110 --> 28:39.870]  And the intruder shoots for six hour nine millimeter rounds from outside of the house inside.
[28:40.950 --> 28:48.770]  On a Sunday afternoon they're saying it like 430 on Mother's Day when everybody's going to be out grilling and no one hears a gun. No one.
[28:49.250 --> 28:55.710]  We canvassed the whole neighborhood. I'd say 80% of the neighborhood was home. A bunch of them were outside gardening.
[28:55.710 --> 29:04.610]  Guy mowing the lawn. I'm like that lawn mowing guy might not hurt something. The cop who lived right next door who says well my wife had her oxygen running.
[29:04.710 --> 29:13.030]  I'm like well let me ask you this. If somebody was driving by the front of your house and your wife had her tank on and their car backfired would you hear that?
[29:13.130 --> 29:19.250]  He's like oh yeah. I'm like okay. So you'd hear a gunshot. You know so it's kind of the same concept.
[29:19.250 --> 29:32.110]  You know it's like if it's one perpetrator and it doesn't appear that there was anything used to stifle their ability to scream.
[29:35.420 --> 29:42.320]  Why doesn't anybody hear any screaming? Why doesn't anybody hear this rustling? This isn't that deep into the woods.
[29:44.220 --> 29:51.460]  That's really why I want to get you the drone. I want to get you the drone footage. I really want you guys to be able to picture in your mind.
[29:51.620 --> 29:56.800]  That's why I went out. I had been out there and it was years ago. This time I went out with a tour guide.
[29:57.340 --> 30:02.000]  I'm like bring me to all the spots. Bring me to all the things that I'm going to be hearing about during the trial.
[30:02.080 --> 30:10.520]  I want to have an actual working knowledge of the crime scene. I want to have a working knowledge of the bridge.
[30:10.520 --> 30:17.920]  I want to know all of it. And I think it's very helpful. I think it's very helpful.
[30:18.800 --> 30:25.700]  All right. So Rosie asked those questions. The trachea was not damaged. That's correct. It was not damaged.
[30:25.800 --> 30:28.590]  The girls were still breathing. They could have cried. They could have screamed.
[30:31.030 --> 30:43.970]  And then Rosie just cements it and says, look, that the light ligature that you say, that you see, like from here to here, it looked like, beneath the mouth, did not obstruct the mouth.
[30:44.410 --> 30:56.170]  And he says, he says, I think that's correct. He said, I'm speculating a bit, but it's even more speculation for me to say that the mouth could have been covered.
[30:56.170 --> 31:10.050]  I saw no indication that it was covered. So he then asks, he says, again, I just want to clarify that there was no evidence of sexual activity, no abuse, no trauma. Correct.
[31:10.210 --> 31:21.210]  I didn't see anything. And again, he shifts over from Abby to Libby, says, again, you could not determine the handedness from the wounds. Correct.
[31:21.210 --> 31:32.850]  And that's correct. And then he gets into the serrated marks. And the serrated marks, he says, he hearkens back to the deposition.
[31:32.950 --> 31:40.470]  He says, didn't you tell me at the deposition that the serrated area, that it could have been caused by a knife handle back at your depth?
[31:41.810 --> 31:48.630]  And then he says, yeah, that's correct. And didn't you also say that it could have been caused by two or three or even four weapons?
[31:49.330 --> 31:55.410]  He says, yeah, I opine that that's possible. That could have been what caused those strange marks.
[31:56.590 --> 31:59.950]  And then he gets into the angle of force and the instrument.
[32:01.330 --> 32:09.710]  And again, he says, you know, it's just it's impossible for me to know what causes these in terms of the type of weapon. I just I can't know.
[32:10.550 --> 32:20.430]  And then Rosie just keeps hammering home the point that it could have been multiple weapons, which, of course, plays into the concept that there's more than one perpetrator.
[32:20.750 --> 32:25.210]  Right. That's why he keeps trying to drive that home point or that point home.
[32:25.710 --> 32:30.150]  He then talks about Libby having cerebral edema.
[32:30.150 --> 32:39.970]  And he says he says as to Libby, that her death also was not instantaneous, that her her time of death that he estimates.
[32:39.970 --> 32:50.450]  And that's all he can do is estimate because there's a lot of variables, you know, that it was somewhere between three and ten minutes, maybe even up to ten, twenty minutes, he said, before she died.
[32:50.450 --> 33:05.130]  You know, but he said the X factor is the fact that she had three, three major wounds and two of the arteries were not completely severed, but they had substantial injury.
[33:05.750 --> 33:09.250]  And, you know, the vein was cut.
[33:13.250 --> 33:19.730]  So at this point, he then talks about the projection of blood, you know, with these types of wounds.
[33:19.750 --> 33:26.070]  And again, this stuff is very graphic, you guys. If this kind of stuff is too much for you, if it triggers you, pause it.
[33:26.070 --> 33:31.790]  I'm like, I'm pretty close to being done with the forensic pathologist.
[33:31.890 --> 33:37.050]  Like I'm very close. And then we're moving on to phone, phone guy for the state.
[33:39.490 --> 33:53.710]  And then he also said that based on the fact that Libby had this dirt on her heel and some blood on her heel, as well as on her, the back of her calf, that he believed that she was drug.
[33:54.370 --> 33:58.270]  Or she was moved from one location to another. And he said, that's correct.
[33:59.270 --> 34:06.190]  He then got into kind of a. I thought it was a bit of a nothing burger was like talking about with the girls.
[34:06.210 --> 34:09.370]  He's like, did I see that the girls were transported in white sheets?
[34:09.870 --> 34:15.790]  And he said, said, yeah, yeah, I think so, if I remember.
[34:16.030 --> 34:21.050]  And then Rosie kind of get into, well, you know, that's not typically what they're like.
[34:21.050 --> 34:30.030]  Where did those white sheets come from? That's not what I typically when I see autopsy photographs and, you know, the girls being transported in, I don't typically see white sheets.
[34:30.750 --> 34:37.270]  And the doctor said, I honestly don't know. And, you know, and Rosie saying, well, you know, I'm concerned about potential contamination.
[34:38.390 --> 34:41.950]  You know, he's like, I don't know where it came from. It could have come from. Did it come from the ambulance?
[34:41.950 --> 34:44.950]  Do these sheets come from the ambulance from like the gurneys and the doctors?
[34:45.050 --> 34:50.550]  Like, I honestly don't know. I have no way of knowing where they came from if I'm being straightforward.
[34:51.390 --> 35:02.070]  So then Rosie goes back into the serrated marks and he once again refers him back to his deposition, which was taken on 227 of this year, 24.
[35:04.490 --> 35:17.930]  And Rosie asks him, he's like, is it fair to say that after our deposition that that left you with an unsettled mind as to what could have caused those marks?
[35:20.270 --> 35:27.290]  And the doctor's like, that's fair to say. I think, you know, it got me thinking. I was thinking a lot.
[35:27.430 --> 35:37.590]  I've thought a lot over the past years about what may have caused those strange marks. I put thought into it.
[35:37.590 --> 35:52.530]  It's like something that I think about. And he said that he continued to think about it because they are not what he would consider to be a classic serrated injury.
[35:53.890 --> 36:04.370]  Like where you have like a serrated knife, like a steak knife that would leave like serrated wounds. You can see the wound pattern, serrated things. These aren't that.
[36:04.370 --> 36:16.530]  Remember, these are not incisions. They're not wounds that are breaking the skin necessarily. They look more like abrasions.
[36:16.570 --> 36:29.580]  They kind of look like when your dog scratches you. It doesn't break skin. And you know how the skin rises up. It swells. It's a lot what they look like to me.
[36:30.220 --> 36:42.200]  You know, so what may have caused that? It's hard to know. I mean, no one opined that maybe it was one of these branches or sticks. Maybe that was on there. It scraped it.
[36:42.200 --> 36:49.940]  I mean, I don't know. It's hard to know. That's kind of the point of this thing. It's hard to know what caused that.
[36:52.000 --> 37:03.860]  So he did not... and then Rosie sets it straight and says you did not have an opinion during the deposition as to what may have caused those serrations.
[37:03.900 --> 37:17.460]  And again, this is as late as 227 of 24 when they depose him. He doesn't have... he's not opining anything. He has no opinion whatsoever as to what could have caused him. He's befuddled by it.
[37:20.640 --> 37:27.480]  So Rosie then asked him, well, did you talk to the prosecution? He says, yeah. How often? This is on several occasions.
[37:32.460 --> 37:45.520]  And then he asked him, so let me ask you this. So how many times in your career have you changed your mind in terms of something like this?
[37:48.730 --> 37:51.270]  And before the case goes to court.
[37:53.450 --> 38:01.970]  And he's like, well... he's like, there's a couple of times. He's like, you know, maybe a couple of times.
[38:02.430 --> 38:11.830]  He's like, but this is like... I'm not saying this is definitive. Like that's... because Rosie starts asking him, wouldn't it have been your best practice to prepare a report?
[38:11.830 --> 38:20.410]  Because you... like after you came up with this concept of a box cutter, you didn't prepare a supplemental report and send it to us, right?
[38:20.750 --> 38:27.090]  Like it would... you would know that that would be important for us to know that you've changed your opinion.
[38:27.830 --> 38:35.530]  And he was very clear to say, well, it's not my opinion. It's a theory that I have. And it's nothing more.
[38:35.530 --> 38:41.810]  If this was a finding that I made, then I would have done a supplemental report.
[38:43.630 --> 38:51.010]  But it's not that. So I didn't. I didn't think it was necessary. It was just something that I kind of threw out there.
[38:51.230 --> 39:01.850]  Because maybe this is a possibility. It's certainly not anything that I am sitting in front of this jury and saying that I think it's factual.
[39:01.850 --> 39:08.210]  That I'm saying that I believe that these wounds were caused by a box cutter. I'm not saying that.
[39:12.270 --> 39:18.850]  So... and then he asks him, Rosie kind of sums up the cross. He says...
[39:19.870 --> 39:28.690]  Like despite whether or not you wrote us a report and whether or not it's a good idea that you should have done that, even if it is speculative.
[39:28.690 --> 39:38.750]  I mean, the bottom line is that this is speculation and nothing more, right? The doctor says yes, it's speculation.
[39:40.290 --> 39:51.870]  All right. And so that basically wrapped up Rosie's cross. And that was it for the ME.
[39:51.870 --> 39:58.370]  And then it was lunch time. So we had a nice long lunch. About an hour twenty.
[40:00.230 --> 40:06.390]  I think the people are getting out of the line now. I think they're able to get down there and eat lunch, I believe.
[40:07.270 --> 40:16.750]  Because the courtroom is far less crowded these days. Like, I mean, there's still a very, very nice crowd in there in terms of seats being occupied.
[40:16.750 --> 40:31.670]  But it's not as crazy as it was in terms of the... in terms of the early days. Yeah, no stomach contents. No stomach contents. It just blew my mind.
[40:31.670 --> 40:38.890]  Like, I kept I kept thinking, I'm like, is Rosie going to wait to ask? Because nothing undirect about stomach contents. I'm like, I have never.
[40:40.090 --> 40:50.270]  Ever heard. Forensic pathologists testifying about an autopsy and not discuss what was in the stomach contents, even if it's irrelevant.
[40:51.410 --> 40:59.550]  Like, even if it doesn't play into anything, I've always heard them describe what was found in the stomach contents. Nothing.
[41:00.030 --> 41:09.150]  Not a peep. Including from the defense. Just... I mean, you guys have heard me talking about the stomach contents. I'm like, it's such a good clue.
[41:09.910 --> 41:19.110]  It's certainly not definitive, but it's such a good clue. And then I was so excited when we had Derek German confirm that he had made the girls banana pancakes.
[41:20.610 --> 41:31.690]  The banana is very slow to digest. It's easy on the system. So it hangs around in there for a while.
[41:32.710 --> 41:39.950]  We heard no tox. No tox reported either. Nothing. No toxicology. No stomach contents.
[41:39.950 --> 41:52.270]  It was a surprisingly brief examination of the forensic pathologist, in my opinion. When he got on the stand, I thought, all right, we're going to have a day of the doctor.
[41:53.630 --> 42:02.010]  Exactly. It does. I've been saying that. That would have been... So where we're at right now, in terms of what the state's case in chief is,
[42:02.670 --> 42:18.190]  in terms of what I keep harping on, which is the attack on the timeline, the attack on the state's theory as to the time of death, is they've provided no evidence as to when the girls died.
[42:19.330 --> 42:31.810]  They're completely relying on the phone usage and when it stopped. And they're trying to use these four witnesses who claim that they saw this bridge guy.
[42:33.550 --> 42:45.590]  And I'm not even so convinced after I saw the video that the bridge guy is the guy. I know everyone... I was on Vinny tonight, and maybe I just didn't see it.
[42:46.850 --> 43:02.650]  Maybe... Barb talked about... And I don't know how detailed I got into the video that we saw. And I know I told you guys that we only saw it once on direct of the witness who laid the foundation to get the video in.
[43:04.470 --> 43:11.510]  Libby's Snapchat video, right? So he shows it one time, and I'm sitting there like, oh my God. I can't believe we're finally seeing the video.
[43:11.510 --> 43:21.450]  And I see it, and then it's over. Like the blink of an eye. I'm like, my God, was that 43 seconds? It didn't seem like 43 seconds to me. And I'm like, I didn't see the guy.
[43:22.030 --> 43:33.070]  You know, but I'm like, I didn't even know what to focus on because I had never seen the whole video. It's like, we've always been shown this clip, this short clip with the guy walking a couple of steps.
[43:33.070 --> 43:43.310]  And we have no idea. I always assumed because it's so blurry that that was somebody off in the background, but we had no idea. We had no idea how far behind Abby was.
[43:44.030 --> 43:53.150]  I had no idea. None of us had any idea what the rest of the video looked like. I didn't know necessarily that it was from Libby's point of view.
[43:53.150 --> 44:02.290]  I mean, obviously I knew she was taking the video. I didn't know that Abby was still out there on the bridge, that she had already, she being Libby, had already gotten off the bridge.
[44:02.550 --> 44:10.550]  And that she was filming Abby as she was coming back, you know, because at some point the camera, she's pointing and then it goes down.
[44:11.290 --> 44:19.910]  And then she says a couple things. She's like, oh, this is the gravel. And then she's like, she puts it back up real quick.
[44:19.910 --> 44:31.770]  And I only saw Abby, like, kind of running as she was getting towards the end of the bridge. I did not get the sense that she was running in fear.
[44:32.570 --> 44:47.590]  I thought she was running because she had just cleared that very, very scary thing to do, which every single, hey, babe, that every single witness has testified that crossing that bridge is a harrowing experience.
[44:48.310 --> 44:56.210]  I mean, Kelsey, her own sister, testified the last time I was on it, I crawled back on my hands and my knees because I was scared as hell.
[44:57.090 --> 45:09.190]  You know, adults don't do it. This is a very kid thing. So it's like it's kind of like that thing where when you're getting to the very end of something really scary you do, you kind of you run and finish it out.
[45:09.190 --> 45:30.510]  You know, like, whoa, I did it. You know, like that was the sense that I got. So tonight on Vinny, Vinny Barb says that when she flashed the camera back up and caught this little image of Abby real close to her, that she saw the bridge guy again.
[45:30.510 --> 45:36.170]  And I'm like, what? I'm like, I didn't see that.
[45:36.170 --> 45:47.330]  And if that were true, why weren't, why weren't they taking that image and trying to enhance that image? I don't know. Like Barb's seen the thing a bunch of times.
[45:48.090 --> 46:05.990]  So I like to me, I'm so like I wish that we would have seen it 50 times. It's upsetting to me. And from what I understand, and if there's anybody out there and I'm going to I'm going to ask Andrea and I'm going to ask Lee tomorrow if they heard the same thing.
[46:05.990 --> 46:21.990]  I think I already asked this, that that Gull said that when they're back into liberations where they were talking about and housekeeping issues in terms of AV stuff, when the jury has a request to see a piece of evidence that because Gull was like, you can't like telling the defense.
[46:22.050 --> 46:35.370]  You can't just give a flash drive to my bail off when they have so that has a bunch of evidence on it because they may have stuff that's inadmissible and or that wasn't shown at trial and he could accidentally put it on.
[46:35.370 --> 46:47.710]  And he's like, you're going to have to have like a separate device for every single piece of evidence that is video in nature or is something they're going to have to use a device to see it.
[46:47.910 --> 46:55.450]  They're like, well, like Rosie's like I, you know, I can put them in files on a flash drive, you know, clearly marked.
[46:56.550 --> 47:03.670]  And she's like, because what I'm what I'm envisioning is that when they want to see something that we're going to come out and we're going to play it one time.
[47:04.550 --> 47:05.550]  One time.
[47:06.810 --> 47:07.670]  And that's it.
[47:08.150 --> 47:08.810]  Like what?
[47:10.290 --> 47:11.470]  I'm like, what?
[47:12.610 --> 47:14.290]  I just said I didn't like that.
[47:14.290 --> 47:22.330]  To me, the jury should be able to watch the video one million times if they want to watch the video one million times.
[47:22.730 --> 47:25.930]  I want to see the video one million times.
[47:26.450 --> 47:28.210]  That's how many times I want to see it.
[47:28.590 --> 47:30.310]  There's a guy's life on the line.
[47:31.390 --> 47:35.450]  I want to see the whole goddamn thing as many times as I want to see it.
[47:35.470 --> 47:38.490]  I want to try to see everything that I can about that video.
[47:38.810 --> 47:39.930]  Because if Barb's right.
[47:41.410 --> 47:45.690]  You know, like I felt like I wanted to text her, except I had to come right back on.
[47:45.810 --> 47:47.930]  I was like, what are you talking about? You saw him again.
[47:47.970 --> 47:49.490]  Like, why didn't they use that image?
[47:49.790 --> 47:58.170]  Why are they using with him off in the distance and trying to enhance that if they have an image of him right like closer to Libby like when he's right behind?
[47:58.170 --> 48:01.890]  Like that doesn't make any goddamn sense to me, but I don't know.
[48:01.970 --> 48:03.110]  I don't know.
[48:04.410 --> 48:09.430]  Alright, so we get to witness three final witness of the day who's Christopher Cecil.
[48:09.430 --> 48:14.430]  He is a first sergeant with the Indiana State Police, 20 years on the job.
[48:16.170 --> 48:25.710]  And his official job title right now is he's the commander of the Internet Internet crimes against children.
[48:30.570 --> 48:46.050]  You know, McClellan asked him, he's all right, so you're training, you know, you've trained, you've taken courses from multiple different vendors, you know, Sellebright, Magnet, which are software at this point.
[48:46.230 --> 48:52.190]  Sellebright used to be the vehicle in which they would use to extract.
[48:52.190 --> 49:09.410]  But I think they've kind of more shifted into the software game, meaning that there's other products out there now that are extracting may extract more information than Sellebright could back in the day when it was extracting.
[49:09.410 --> 49:12.370]  That was the method one extraction was like a Sellebright.
[49:12.610 --> 49:19.510]  And that's simply where you take you take the phone that you have the information you're trying to get.
[49:19.510 --> 49:23.730]  You plug it in, you plug that into the machine or it's connected to the machine.
[49:24.230 --> 49:28.190]  And then there's another cord that leads out to a dummy phone that's been wiped.
[49:28.910 --> 49:38.310]  And it basically takes all the information from the evidence phone, funnels it through the machine and then runs it into the dummy phone.
[49:38.310 --> 49:43.210]  And so now they're using a product called GreyKey.
[49:44.150 --> 49:49.810]  And then so what GreyKey does is it pulls it out, extracts it, does a much more thorough extraction.
[49:50.330 --> 49:58.490]  And then what they use is multiple different software suites out there, such as Sellebright, such as Magnet.
[49:58.490 --> 50:10.670]  And those take the information from the extraction, extrapolates it out, and it creates a very voluminous report from that report.
[50:11.790 --> 50:18.810]  You're going to have a cop that's typically going to go in and decipher it, pick out what's relevant, at least in their mind.
[50:19.150 --> 50:24.650]  And they create a report that they hand off to the detectives and the investigating officers.
[50:24.650 --> 50:27.230]  All right, so that's how the thing works.
[50:28.970 --> 50:38.770]  So in Cecil, because we heard from the first cop who did the first extractions, and that was Bunner, Brian Bunner.
[50:39.150 --> 50:45.890]  OK, so he did that up until 2019 because Bunner was moved. Cecil took the position.
[50:45.890 --> 50:49.890]  And he became the digital forensic guy.
[50:50.350 --> 50:59.030]  So in 2019, he gets all of Bunner's work from the three extractions that we know took place.
[50:59.900 --> 51:10.530]  OK, and in 2019, he's using gray key.
[51:11.250 --> 51:16.610]  OK, and that's what he's using to do his extractions. And that's what he uses to get the info from the phone.
[51:17.190 --> 51:26.030]  And as I said, I really like the way that Nick does his directs,
[51:26.030 --> 51:32.430]  because he really does make it clear. And he's not reading off a piece of paper.
[51:32.490 --> 51:35.250]  He may look, but he knows his questions.
[51:36.530 --> 51:39.830]  And he knows what he wants to try to get out of these witnesses.
[51:41.210 --> 51:46.910]  And if he gives kind of a clunky question, he'll be like, that was a terrible question. Let me re-ask it.
[51:47.270 --> 51:52.870]  So he's got a good style in there. I'm going to be curious to see him on a cross.
[51:53.530 --> 51:58.010]  That's where you make your hay in the litigator business, on cross examination.
[51:58.210 --> 52:04.210]  Got to see how quick a lawyer can think on their feet, especially if you get answers that you don't anticipate.
[52:05.210 --> 52:08.050]  So he then takes the encrypted data.
[52:11.350 --> 52:17.590]  You know, but Gray King's really good. They shifted over that because it was good at getting encrypted data and unlocked
[52:18.610 --> 52:24.310]  and also data from unlocked Apple devices. That's why it was kind of a big trend moving towards
[52:24.310 --> 52:30.110]  Gray Key. But when it comes out, it's readable, but it's not processed, is what he said.
[52:30.470 --> 52:33.790]  So when the extracted data comes out, it's readable. It's not processed.
[52:34.410 --> 52:40.910]  So at that point, he then will... he starts talking about the different types of extraction.
[52:41.030 --> 52:46.510]  He says there's a full file system extraction and that will extract the full contents of the phone
[52:46.510 --> 52:50.910]  and extract system data, metadata, files, deleted files.
[52:51.690 --> 52:58.570]  And this all comes into, you know, raw detailed data form. And at that point, they ingest it either into cellulbright
[52:58.570 --> 53:05.310]  or into magnet. And then that puts it, it turns it into a digestible form for humans to be able to read.
[53:05.750 --> 53:12.670]  Now, there's still very lengthy reports. It'll pump it out. So then he'll go in as his role is the
[53:13.330 --> 53:20.970]  digital forensic guy and he'll pair it down. He'll pair it down to what the things that he thinks are relevant as to the case.
[53:21.610 --> 53:26.470]  If it's timeline issues, if it's, you know, was the battery dead? When did the battery die?
[53:26.830 --> 53:33.450]  You know, all those types of things. Are there photographs involved? All the things that seem to be at issue in the case.
[53:33.450 --> 53:40.190]  Those are the things that he'll focus on. So once it's ingested into cellulbright or magnet,
[53:40.190 --> 53:45.410]  and he says he uses all of them. He says, like, this isn't a like I'm picking either or.
[53:45.630 --> 53:52.310]  He says, I use every program available to see exactly what I can glean out of this information.
[53:52.770 --> 53:57.190]  Because one thing may pick something up that the other doesn't. And he says, that's often the case.
[53:57.370 --> 54:03.330]  And it's device specific. He's like, you know, Apple and droids are very different.
[54:03.770 --> 54:11.310]  Apple is super secretive about their shit. Apple does not advertise like this is like this is all the stuff we have tucked away in there.
[54:11.790 --> 54:16.230]  You know why? Because they think it's none of a damn business. So they don't do it.
[54:16.470 --> 54:21.130]  You know, like these guys all have to figure it out. And we'll get to that when we start talking about
[54:22.190 --> 54:28.090]  some of the things that existed in these cell phones that even the guys who were doing
[54:28.930 --> 54:31.570]  forensic examinations of phones didn't know existed.
[54:35.590 --> 54:38.510]  So he says, at that point, he then generates a report.
[54:39.150 --> 54:44.510]  So he goes in. So I take it up. He says that. So if he runs it through
[54:44.510 --> 54:51.630]  Celebrator Magnet, a report is generated and or he can examine it or analyze the data or he can just say, here you go.
[54:52.050 --> 54:57.930]  Here's the report. He feels that his job is to take that voluminous report
[54:58.710 --> 55:03.130]  shrink it down so that it's manageable, so it contains only pertinent information.
[55:04.290 --> 55:11.270]  So he ends up doing his first extraction on 6-26 of 2019.
[55:11.650 --> 55:16.850]  Now remember, there had already been three abstractions at this point. Bonner had done two.
[55:17.050 --> 55:21.910]  And then Homeland Security or Customs had did the third one. The feds had come in.
[55:21.910 --> 55:24.790]  So they did it then. So.
[55:25.530 --> 55:30.210]  At that point, he says, once it's ingested into Celebrite,
[55:31.590 --> 55:37.970]  I took a look at it and then I put in the parameters. I was looking specifically at 2-13-17.
[55:38.410 --> 55:45.090]  I made a note. I'm like, why would you have it so narrow of a time frame?
[55:45.650 --> 55:51.070]  Don't we want to kind of see if somebody was trying to draw the girls out to the...
[55:51.070 --> 55:58.090]  Doesn't it matter? Isn't it relevant what may have happened in the days or weeks leading up to the date?
[55:58.350 --> 56:02.090]  Isn't it worth looking at? I think it is.
[56:03.770 --> 56:13.170]  I think it has value. He didn't. He kept the parameters on 2-13-17.
[56:13.350 --> 56:19.350]  And he's trying to establish a timeline for the investigators based on the data in that phone.
[56:21.630 --> 56:25.510]  So then they enter...
[56:25.510 --> 56:30.550]  Exhibit number 225 into evidence, and that's Cecil's first extraction report.
[56:31.890 --> 56:34.470]  You know, and then so Nick throws it up on the big screen.
[56:36.130 --> 56:44.150]  We can see it for the most part. I couldn't read everything. Kind of a bummer. I couldn't read like every word of it.
[56:44.290 --> 56:47.430]  I think people with better vision probably were able to read it.
[56:47.430 --> 56:50.710]  But he kind of goes through the things that are pertinent.
[56:52.650 --> 56:59.550]  So he says, you know, with the forensic acquisition of data, he's trying to get it from the phone and the SIM card.
[57:00.070 --> 57:02.530]  He's able to get user account information.
[57:03.390 --> 57:07.330]  He found that at least two people were using the phone.
[57:08.450 --> 57:15.730]  And then he said, as far as the user account goes, that he attributed it to two girls.
[57:16.190 --> 57:17.810]  Abby and Libby were both using it.
[57:18.150 --> 57:24.510]  As far as biometric data, meaning the Touch ID, this is a 6S.
[57:24.670 --> 57:32.970]  So that was back when you had the home key on the iPhone and you could use your fingerprint or your thumbprint in order to gain entry to the phone.
[57:32.970 --> 57:37.910]  So he said that there were three biometric fingerprints that were stored in there.
[57:38.390 --> 57:43.970]  The right and the left of Abby or the right and the left of Libby and then Abby's.
[57:44.490 --> 57:55.230]  He said that the Apple Health application was intact and that aggregates data from other devices as well as the phone itself.
[57:55.230 --> 58:00.270]  So it will aggregate data if you've got an Apple Watch, if you've got an iPad.
[58:01.430 --> 58:09.570]  Anything that you're using that's Apple, it will aggregate all that and pump it out in the app in terms of your biometrics.
[58:10.290 --> 58:18.890]  And he says that as far as Apple Health application, that it's always it's always keeping track when you're walking or running, going upstairs.
[58:19.510 --> 58:22.110]  You know, my watch, if I'm wearing it, it knows when I'm sleeping.
[58:22.110 --> 58:25.810]  It knows when I'm awake, so I better be good for goodness.
[58:27.710 --> 58:32.570]  But he says it's always working in the background, provided the phone's on. The phone has to be on.
[58:33.470 --> 58:38.410]  Okay, so but it'll it's always working in the background. The app doesn't have to be open.
[58:38.450 --> 58:41.170]  It's always keeping track, which I know to be true.
[58:41.310 --> 58:44.550]  I'm an Apple guy. I have an Apple Watch. I have an Apple phone.
[58:45.110 --> 58:50.970]  Like even if I forget to start an outdoor walk when I'm with the dog, I can always look.
[58:51.770 --> 58:56.730]  And open up my steps and it'll show me how many times.
[58:57.230 --> 58:59.850]  How many steps I've taken in a certain period of time.
[59:01.010 --> 59:02.150]  So then he says.
[59:04.430 --> 59:10.190]  On 2 13 of 17 at 1408 48.
[59:11.170 --> 59:16.510]  That he was looking at steps that were taken. So he said at 13 31 40.
[59:16.510 --> 59:19.850]  Which is 131 40.
[59:20.970 --> 59:23.450]  That steps were taken now.
[59:24.350 --> 59:36.130]  He said that there were 1682 steps that were taken between 131 40 and 208 48.
[59:36.770 --> 59:39.630]  Okay, so that's 1682 steps.
[59:41.110 --> 59:43.730]  He then says it 208.
[59:45.830 --> 59:51.450]  That there were 438 steps taken and that stopped at 225.
[59:52.170 --> 59:54.010]  And then.
[59:56.110 --> 59:58.670]  He says that there were flights climbed.
[01:00:00.130 --> 01:00:03.890]  At 231 39 there was an elevation change.
[01:00:04.070 --> 01:00:06.510]  And that in terms of flights.
[01:00:07.130 --> 01:00:09.610]  It appeared that there had been two floors.
[01:00:11.490 --> 01:00:13.370]  So at that point.
[01:00:14.570 --> 01:00:18.230]  I believe that the Cleveland asked him. Oh, well.
[01:00:18.730 --> 01:00:21.850]  What is a flight equal? Like how many how many feet is that?
[01:00:22.190 --> 01:00:24.570]  And dudes like, I don't know.
[01:00:24.710 --> 01:00:28.090]  It's like, well, you try to calculate that, right?
[01:00:28.170 --> 01:00:30.110]  He's like, I think so.
[01:00:31.010 --> 01:00:33.710]  I'm not trying to pick on Cecil. I'm really not.
[01:00:33.870 --> 01:00:37.830]  I don't want to come across as like some kind of like deep.
[01:00:38.710 --> 01:00:40.510]  This is my everyday voice.
[01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:43.810]  And this is just this isn't a podcast. This is how I talk.
[01:00:44.490 --> 01:00:45.590]  But thank you.
[01:00:47.610 --> 01:00:50.310]  But like I got the same sense from this guy.
[01:00:50.330 --> 01:00:53.430]  The first time I saw him testify in the summer.
[01:00:54.230 --> 01:00:55.310]  He just ain't that guy.
[01:00:56.570 --> 01:00:58.690]  He just ain't that guy.
[01:00:59.050 --> 01:01:03.010]  Like, he's not that dude that you're running up to the stand.
[01:01:03.490 --> 01:01:05.270]  And you're like, this is our guy.
[01:01:05.270 --> 01:01:07.950]  This guy's going to this guy's going to carry the day.
[01:01:08.050 --> 01:01:11.490]  It's not that dude. Seems like a nice enough guy.
[01:01:11.530 --> 01:01:12.370]  He really does.
[01:01:13.870 --> 01:01:17.390]  You know, he seems like a like a real kind of like computer nerdy guy.
[01:01:17.510 --> 01:01:19.850]  I think he takes his job very, very seriously.
[01:01:21.010 --> 01:01:25.050]  But just in terms of being like a like having a wealth of knowledge.
[01:01:25.250 --> 01:01:26.310]  He ain't it.
[01:01:27.210 --> 01:01:28.170]  Ain't it?
[01:01:32.210 --> 01:01:33.970]  So so there we go.
[01:01:33.970 --> 01:01:35.930]  We've got some steps that are taken.
[01:01:36.410 --> 01:01:40.750]  That seem to coincide with what the state had said in terms of.
[01:01:40.750 --> 01:01:43.290]  You know, getting dropped off.
[01:01:43.930 --> 01:01:47.410]  Walking the trail, getting to the bridge, crossing the bridge.
[01:01:47.470 --> 01:01:49.770]  Four hundred and thirty eight steps.
[01:01:50.330 --> 01:01:52.910]  Stopping at 225 231.
[01:01:52.910 --> 01:01:54.490]  There's an elevation change.
[01:01:56.310 --> 01:01:59.630]  And then so that would mean that.
[01:02:00.410 --> 01:02:01.730]  You know, that's when they went down.
[01:02:01.730 --> 01:02:04.850]  When they went down the hill in the state's world.
[01:02:05.230 --> 01:02:08.150]  And it seems like that's what happened. They went down.
[01:02:08.870 --> 01:02:13.570]  So he says at 232 39.
[01:02:13.910 --> 01:02:15.350]  Phone stop moving.
[01:02:17.470 --> 01:02:20.770]  OK, and he said that from what he was able to see.
[01:02:21.930 --> 01:02:26.850]  That the app was always off the Apple Health app was off, but it was still keeping track.
[01:02:26.850 --> 01:02:31.130]  Now, he says.
[01:02:32.410 --> 01:02:34.890]  And he just said that in general, that the.
[01:02:35.750 --> 01:02:39.310]  Again, that the data is always being collected, whether the apps open or not.
[01:02:40.050 --> 01:02:44.190]  And then they get into the conversation and Nick starts probing.
[01:02:44.190 --> 01:02:48.870]  He's trying to get ahead of this concept that the defense has that.
[01:02:49.330 --> 01:02:52.330]  You know, that the phone that the girls were taken.
[01:02:53.070 --> 01:02:58.670]  Away from the crime scene, they were returned later at four thirty a.m.
[01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:09.740]  So he's sitting there and so they get into the whole car like, OK, well, what happens when you bring your phone in the car?
[01:03:11.540 --> 01:03:14.360]  He's like, well, whatever if he says, well, first, what happens if you're sitting still?
[01:03:14.620 --> 01:03:16.380]  Well, it record stops. No.
[01:03:16.580 --> 01:03:18.660]  So what happens if you're in the car?
[01:03:18.660 --> 01:03:21.440]  He says it could. And Nick says, well, it could.
[01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:28.720]  Well, how could it? And he says, well, you know, like we've heard in my research.
[01:03:29.880 --> 01:03:38.080]  That, you know, sometimes if you go over a bump like a speed bump, that that'll that'll fool the phone into thinking that you've taken a step.
[01:03:39.820 --> 01:03:42.380]  He's like, so the car has to be moving.
[01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:47.920]  But the phone doesn't. He's like, I think so.
[01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:56.600]  He just didn't know anything definitively, and I'm not even necessarily putting it on him because I don't know that anybody knows it definitively.
[01:03:56.600 --> 01:04:04.160]  What I'm learning about iPhones is that all these experts in all these trials don't know shit.
[01:04:05.060 --> 01:04:12.900]  Like that whole thing with what went on in the Karen Reed thing about the whole how how long to die in the cold, whether or not it happened at two thirty one.
[01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:17.640]  I did not get a definitive answer and I don't give a shit what anybody else is saying out there.
[01:04:17.660 --> 01:04:20.020]  I give a shit what any of them are saying.
[01:04:20.440 --> 01:04:23.600]  I listen to it. No one was definitive.
[01:04:23.660 --> 01:04:25.900]  I don't care what side you're on in that case.
[01:04:26.220 --> 01:04:30.180]  If you're saying that somebody gave a definitive answer in that case, you're foolish.
[01:04:30.180 --> 01:04:33.260]  Yeah, there's no one.
[01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:35.200]  No one gave a definitive answer.
[01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:49.040]  So in this guy's like, as far as like why Apple phones, iPhones occasionally track driving is walking.
[01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:52.040]  I don't know. No one knows. They're doing studies on it.
[01:04:52.060 --> 01:04:54.220]  They're all still trying to figure it out.
[01:04:54.300 --> 01:04:55.400]  And that's factual.
[01:04:55.400 --> 01:05:01.660]  Like I've sat there in my car after walking my dog like at an off leash place.
[01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:12.820]  I'll forget to turn off the steps and like I'll have looked at it close to when like I'm wrapping up the walk and then I'll drive whatever it is the mile back to our crib.
[01:05:13.140 --> 01:05:17.520]  And I'll look at it and the thing like for some reason.
[01:05:17.780 --> 01:05:19.340]  Have track of the drive.
[01:05:20.220 --> 01:05:22.080]  It added a whole shit ton of steps.
[01:05:22.080 --> 01:05:29.560]  And I'm like, and my phone's always sitting like, like on my armrest or in a like cup holder.
[01:05:30.540 --> 01:05:35.960]  You know, Ali would say it's always in my hand and I'm texting, which is probably there's probably truth to that.
[01:05:36.380 --> 01:05:38.620]  But what I'm not doing is walking.
[01:05:41.180 --> 01:05:44.820]  So, you know, it's just in terms of, of the data.
[01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:49.220]  And how Apple actually functions.
[01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:51.740]  I'm just not confident.
[01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:57.320]  That anyone really knows how it works.
[01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:03.880]  I don't care who they are unless they are the person that developed the technology for Apple.
[01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:06.200]  I don't think they know.
[01:06:07.600 --> 01:06:09.460]  Because they're they're all guessing.
[01:06:09.460 --> 01:06:17.840]  It's like they literally developed all of this software and all of these devices to pull shit off of Apple.
[01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:24.940]  Because Apple is not telling anybody a goddamn thing about how their shit operates.
[01:06:25.460 --> 01:06:27.900]  They're not trying to give away the secret sauce.
[01:06:29.160 --> 01:06:30.380]  They're not doing it.
[01:06:30.380 --> 01:06:40.020]  So like there are companies that exist in the world and are making billions of dollars because they've created that their only job.
[01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:46.020]  The only thing that they're trying to do is figure out ways to crack into Apple and try to figure their shit out.
[01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:48.440]  And it's mostly for law enforcement.
[01:06:52.620 --> 01:06:58.860]  All right, so then we get into this really interesting concept of now the knowledge see database and y'all I see your questions.
[01:06:58.860 --> 01:07:00.540]  I will not leave you hanging.
[01:07:00.740 --> 01:07:02.800]  I promise. I promise. I promise. I promise.
[01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:05.280]  All right, so just keep asking them.
[01:07:05.780 --> 01:07:06.900]  They'll keep starring them.
[01:07:07.300 --> 01:07:09.100]  My mods are really good about that.
[01:07:09.700 --> 01:07:11.560]  I hope Osbrooke's back in here.
[01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:15.960]  Like I found like I Osbrooke like tweeted me.
[01:07:16.080 --> 01:07:17.720]  So go tweeted at me.
[01:07:17.740 --> 01:07:19.340]  He's like, oh, I'm great.
[01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:20.180]  Great.
[01:07:20.240 --> 01:07:21.680]  I got kicked off of Bob's Live.
[01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:24.940]  I was complimenting about like getting factual shit from it.
[01:07:24.940 --> 01:07:26.440]  You know, I'm like, I didn't do it.
[01:07:26.640 --> 01:07:27.740]  Like my mods did it.
[01:07:27.740 --> 01:07:31.180]  But Michael has had a lot of imposters in our chat.
[01:07:31.720 --> 01:07:34.880]  So I think that the mods just thought he was an imposter.
[01:07:35.100 --> 01:07:35.900]  I don't know.
[01:07:37.120 --> 01:07:38.060]  But he's good to go.
[01:07:38.160 --> 01:07:40.000]  So hopefully he's still here or came back.
[01:07:40.220 --> 01:07:41.420]  He might be salty though.
[01:07:41.640 --> 01:07:42.480]  Salty Bob.
[01:07:44.240 --> 01:07:46.340]  All right, so we get to this knowledge see database.
[01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:54.980]  And the knowledge see database was talked about when when Bonner was on the stand.
[01:07:55.020 --> 01:07:56.960]  We talked about that with him a little bit.
[01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:58.660]  It's very interesting.
[01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:01.800]  It's it's been in there for a long time.
[01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:04.280]  This is like the deep, deep in the phone.
[01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:06.880]  This is like the way in.
[01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:16.640]  This is like the super secret shit in the phone that like people didn't even know existed until like 2016.
[01:08:17.060 --> 01:08:19.540]  Like Apple had it tucked in there.
[01:08:19.820 --> 01:08:21.060]  They're like, fuck y'all.
[01:08:21.140 --> 01:08:26.320]  You don't need to know our business because we got the knowledge see database suckas.
[01:08:26.320 --> 01:08:28.100]  This is what in it.
[01:08:28.180 --> 01:08:33.520]  You know, Apple is more into our personal private shit than anyone.
[01:08:34.160 --> 01:08:36.720]  It's like I have a real love hate relationship with Apple.
[01:08:37.020 --> 01:08:41.580]  But they are trying to call information from us constantly every day.
[01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:46.060]  Every way they can intrude into our beings, they do it.
[01:08:46.120 --> 01:08:51.420]  And they're wanting to do it on the DL, which means on the down low.
[01:08:52.080 --> 01:08:53.220]  So they're not telling people.
[01:08:53.220 --> 01:09:01.920]  So the entire digital forensic world, all these supposed experts had no idea.
[01:09:03.100 --> 01:09:05.800]  That the knowledge see database even existed.
[01:09:06.860 --> 01:09:09.240]  That's when I was asking the other day.
[01:09:09.780 --> 01:09:14.200]  She's like, well, just because you didn't know it existed.
[01:09:15.980 --> 01:09:18.280]  Doesn't mean that it didn't exist.
[01:09:18.460 --> 01:09:20.360]  And he's like, right, it did exist.
[01:09:20.360 --> 01:09:24.660]  He's like, but his counter to that was like, yeah, okay.
[01:09:25.260 --> 01:09:28.900]  Well, even when we found out it existed, we still couldn't get into it
[01:09:28.900 --> 01:09:31.620]  because we didn't have the technology to get to it.
[01:09:33.560 --> 01:09:35.080]  So that comes later.
[01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:36.620]  That comes later.
[01:09:39.180 --> 01:09:43.800]  So prior to Grey Key, Celebrite was, like I was saying earlier,
[01:09:44.460 --> 01:09:49.520]  Celebrite was the tool that they used to actually do the physical extractions of death.
[01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:54.620]  Like Ali and I were dealing back in the Garcia case.
[01:09:54.660 --> 01:09:56.420]  They had done the extraction in 2013.
[01:09:56.940 --> 01:09:58.280]  That's early stages.
[01:09:59.200 --> 01:10:00.120]  I think that was the first case.
[01:10:00.140 --> 01:10:03.360]  I don't know if Ali had dealt with Celebrite prior to Garcia.
[01:10:03.520 --> 01:10:04.800]  I don't know that I had.
[01:10:05.620 --> 01:10:06.620]  So that was the first time.
[01:10:06.700 --> 01:10:09.900]  I was like, oh, damn, they're getting all the deleted shit.
[01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:12.340]  That's when I started telling all my clients.
[01:10:12.440 --> 01:10:17.680]  I'm like, look, any of that shit you think that you've deleted on your phone,
[01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:18.860]  I got news for you, chief.
[01:10:18.860 --> 01:10:20.140]  That shit's still there.
[01:10:20.420 --> 01:10:22.400]  The only way you're getting rid of it is just destroying.
[01:10:22.500 --> 01:10:24.860]  You better nuke that phone in the microwave, bro.
[01:10:25.400 --> 01:10:26.960]  Because otherwise they won't get you.
[01:10:27.660 --> 01:10:28.940]  They're going to find all your shit.
[01:10:29.620 --> 01:10:34.800]  It's a little tip to all you people out there that may be burgeoning criminals.
[01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:36.280]  Just keep that in mind.
[01:10:37.260 --> 01:10:37.880]  All right.
[01:10:39.620 --> 01:10:43.780]  So then he gets into the timeline again.
[01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:50.720]  He's talking about the 13849, and he's got phone calls.
[01:10:52.660 --> 01:10:54.560]  He's talking about he's trying to build the timeline.
[01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:55.900]  He's trying to look at the phone calls.
[01:10:55.960 --> 01:10:58.140]  He's trying to see if the phone was plugged in and charging.
[01:10:58.760 --> 01:11:00.900]  He's trying to see when different apps are being used.
[01:11:01.020 --> 01:11:03.400]  Snapchat, he's trying to check into battery life.
[01:11:05.120 --> 01:11:12.040]  So he then testifies about this series of photos that Libby took and was posting to Snap.
[01:11:12.040 --> 01:11:19.540]  So there's this 144 or 141, 44 p.m. picture that was posted to Snap.
[01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:30.300]  And then there's another picture at 143 p.m. that was posted to Snap.
[01:11:30.340 --> 01:11:34.540]  And it was the Libby selfie with Abby in the back seat.
[01:11:34.900 --> 01:11:36.400]  You've probably all seen that one before.
[01:11:36.980 --> 01:11:39.580]  It's one of the images that floats around on the Internet.
[01:11:41.360 --> 01:11:45.460]  At 205, there's a snap pic of just the Monon High Bridge.
[01:11:49.380 --> 01:11:56.560]  At 213, okay, so at 205, 10 seconds, there's the snap pic of the Monon High Bridge.
[01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:04.320]  At 213, 20, there's the phone's unlocked.
[01:12:06.440 --> 01:12:09.060]  Somebody, Libby puts her finger on the unlock.
[01:12:09.060 --> 01:12:11.520]  Opens it with their Touch ID.
[01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:18.140]  At 213, 51, 20, 30 seconds later, the video is recorded.
[01:12:20.740 --> 01:12:24.660]  At 214, 41, right after the video stops.
[01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:27.740]  Now this I found interesting. This was new.
[01:12:28.900 --> 01:12:32.000]  So at 214, 31, the video stops.
[01:12:33.340 --> 01:12:40.820]  At 214, 41 seconds, someone unsuccessfully, so this is right after the video stops,
[01:12:41.180 --> 01:12:46.000]  someone unsuccessfully tried to use the biometrics to try to open the phone.
[01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:50.760]  And then my notebook ran out of paper.
[01:12:51.180 --> 01:12:54.720]  Sorry, guys. I'm kidding. It did, but I had extra paper.
[01:12:56.560 --> 01:12:58.540]  I'm burning through the notebooks, y'all.
[01:12:58.540 --> 01:13:02.780]  I want to be like the old composition book. I couldn't find any legal pads.
[01:13:02.860 --> 01:13:06.160]  Look at this. Look at this guy. Just chock full.
[01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:09.360]  Hundreds and hundreds of pages, thousands even.
[01:13:10.180 --> 01:13:11.920]  That's why I was saying I can't feel my finger.
[01:13:14.580 --> 01:13:15.920]  All right, hold on. Let me get a drink.
[01:13:17.080 --> 01:13:17.920]  Doing a lot of yapping.
[01:13:18.360 --> 01:13:19.880]  Oh, we're at hour 13N.
[01:13:20.220 --> 01:13:21.980]  Yeah, I feel much more relaxed on this live.
[01:13:22.040 --> 01:13:27.980]  I was trying to like cram the first live in with like the whole, you know, having to go on with Vinny.
[01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:30.520]  Now I'm chilling.
[01:13:31.880 --> 01:13:32.560]  Super chilling.
[01:13:35.020 --> 01:13:36.460]  I love hanging with you all.
[01:13:36.580 --> 01:13:38.280]  Got a nice crowd, 801.
[01:13:40.200 --> 01:13:43.260]  It's a good crowd. It's a good crowd for breaking it up into two lives.
[01:13:43.340 --> 01:13:45.080]  I'm going to beat Andrea tomorrow.
[01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:48.360]  Like I'm going to be the first dude to get the shit out there.
[01:13:49.280 --> 01:13:49.980]  I'm telling you that.
[01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:53.760]  Andrea and lawyer Lee are going to be following me.
[01:13:53.880 --> 01:13:55.520]  You guys can dip. I don't care.
[01:13:57.840 --> 01:13:59.860]  But I'm going to be the first one tomorrow.
[01:13:59.940 --> 01:14:01.780]  I'm going to run home full speed.
[01:14:02.400 --> 01:14:03.940]  Throw this bad boy up.
[01:14:04.220 --> 01:14:05.980]  Whatever time court ends, I'm out.
[01:14:07.260 --> 01:14:07.920]  I'm out.
[01:14:09.040 --> 01:14:15.860]  It's like I saw the couple that I do not speak of run out of the courtroom immediately after court.
[01:14:16.420 --> 01:14:21.960]  I never listened to their content, but I can guarantee I know what they were just dying to put out there.
[01:14:22.660 --> 01:14:23.720]  I can guarantee it.
[01:14:25.700 --> 01:14:28.660]  I can completely guess what they were like.
[01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:32.640]  Not quite.
[01:14:33.100 --> 01:14:33.300]  All right.
[01:14:33.340 --> 01:14:36.180]  So we continue with Chris Cecil.
[01:14:38.460 --> 01:14:40.240]  He's asked his service providers.
[01:14:41.200 --> 01:14:43.400]  You know, they continue to update their software, right?
[01:14:43.540 --> 01:14:44.160]  He's like, yeah.
[01:14:44.200 --> 01:14:45.760]  So he's talking about Celia Brighton Magnet.
[01:14:45.900 --> 01:14:46.180]  Yes.
[01:14:46.920 --> 01:14:47.800]  There's constant updates.
[01:14:47.860 --> 01:14:49.000]  They're always updating it.
[01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:50.460]  And they have to do that.
[01:14:50.460 --> 01:14:54.600]  It's like because the phone manufacturers keep updating the phones.
[01:14:54.620 --> 01:14:55.780]  They keep adding new features.
[01:14:56.140 --> 01:14:57.620]  They'll remove features.
[01:14:57.700 --> 01:14:59.020]  They'll do all kinds of stuff.
[01:14:59.160 --> 01:15:00.280]  They have to always...
[01:15:00.280 --> 01:15:02.800]  It's a very fluid situation.
[01:15:03.260 --> 01:15:05.220]  They're always, always having to update.
[01:15:07.020 --> 01:15:12.100]  And so he says, you know, Celia Brighton Magnet, their updates are pretty frequent.
[01:15:12.440 --> 01:15:18.400]  And, you know, the most recent one allowed for decoding of more data.
[01:15:20.980 --> 01:15:24.220]  And, you know, it's like what he does at that point.
[01:15:24.620 --> 01:15:26.480]  And again, we're now in 2024.
[01:15:27.440 --> 01:15:32.060]  So this is right before the hearings in July.
[01:15:34.340 --> 01:15:37.160]  And so actually, it's a little bit before.
[01:15:37.180 --> 01:15:39.400]  So it's like May 10th, 2024.
[01:15:40.740 --> 01:15:41.980]  Celia Brighton has a new update.
[01:15:42.100 --> 01:15:43.480]  He's like, ooh, hot damn.
[01:15:44.260 --> 01:15:44.940]  New update!
[01:15:45.620 --> 01:15:48.300]  He's always trying to call more information.
[01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:50.440]  So he's like, all right, man, I'm going to run it through there again.
[01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:52.020]  You can't stop me.
[01:15:52.740 --> 01:15:58.500]  So when we were at the hearings in late July, and Augé had him on the stand.
[01:15:58.960 --> 01:16:07.540]  And boy, I have to tell you, like Augé, she likes to feed Cecil lunch every day.
[01:16:09.580 --> 01:16:11.780]  She's got a pretty good handle on Cecil.
[01:16:13.340 --> 01:16:14.380]  I like Jennifer.
[01:16:14.380 --> 01:16:16.120]  I think she's a good lawyer.
[01:16:20.580 --> 01:16:21.940]  So that extraction.
[01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:27.100]  So when we were sitting in court in the end of July, he's like, I'm still working on it.
[01:16:27.340 --> 01:16:29.460]  So he's extracted it at that point.
[01:16:29.580 --> 01:16:30.620]  He's used gray key.
[01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:35.680]  Well, he didn't even because he didn't have the phone, I don't think, at that point, or he might have.
[01:16:35.680 --> 01:16:49.800]  I guess apparently lawyer Lee was, she put it out there that after the October extraction by Bonner back in 2017, that she heard.
[01:16:50.500 --> 01:16:55.180]  I didn't hear this, but I have no doubt to, I'm not going to question lawyer Lee.
[01:16:55.200 --> 01:16:55.980]  She's diligent.
[01:16:56.640 --> 01:17:01.040]  She said that she heard that the family got the phone back.
[01:17:01.040 --> 01:17:10.120]  And that they actually recorded the funeral, some shit on Libby's phone.
[01:17:10.260 --> 01:17:10.980]  I don't know.
[01:17:11.140 --> 01:17:13.500]  Or they recorded something like that doesn't make any sense.
[01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:15.120]  There wouldn't be a funeral in October.
[01:17:15.160 --> 01:17:15.980]  I don't know.
[01:17:16.540 --> 01:17:24.840]  But like the word on the street is that law enforcement gave the phone back to the family in October of 2017.
[01:17:25.660 --> 01:17:26.560]  I don't know.
[01:17:26.800 --> 01:17:30.180]  But if they did, it's not what Cecil used.
[01:17:30.180 --> 01:17:34.400]  Cecil used the prior extractions.
[01:17:35.460 --> 01:17:37.620]  And he just fed him back in.
[01:17:38.300 --> 01:17:43.320]  So he reprocessed them, the original extraction, the OG extraction, the first extraction.
[01:17:44.300 --> 01:17:46.880]  And then he created his new supplemental report.
[01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:53.900]  And remember the first extraction done was a method one extraction that was old school.
[01:17:55.060 --> 01:18:00.200]  And so then he went back and he reviewed the timeline from Bunner's extraction.
[01:18:01.260 --> 01:18:03.620]  And he looked at the data that collected.
[01:18:03.780 --> 01:18:04.820]  And it was different.
[01:18:05.580 --> 01:18:06.640]  It's got more systems.
[01:18:06.660 --> 01:18:07.880]  There's more information.
[01:18:09.920 --> 01:18:12.820]  And then he said when...
[01:18:12.820 --> 01:18:20.940]  And then he acknowledged that, you know, when you think when you turn the phone off, you do lose data.
[01:18:23.420 --> 01:18:25.320]  But it also changes.
[01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:29.940]  And, you know, which...
[01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:36.940]  So there's a loss of some data because it's a first in first out situation for certain applications.
[01:18:38.440 --> 01:18:41.480]  Meaning that it was the first thing in.
[01:18:41.880 --> 01:18:44.700]  The next thing, if there's no space, it's going to override.
[01:18:44.980 --> 01:18:48.040]  When the new thing comes in, it's going to override the first thing that came in.
[01:18:48.040 --> 01:18:51.240]  Which is basically at the back of the line now.
[01:18:51.240 --> 01:18:53.860]  So you got the new shit coming in.
[01:18:54.120 --> 01:18:55.360]  The last shit drops off.
[01:18:56.200 --> 01:19:00.040]  All right, so...
[01:19:00.040 --> 01:19:04.180]  So he takes from May 10th of 2024 to August 18th, 2024.
[01:19:04.460 --> 01:19:05.700]  Reports finally done.
[01:19:06.060 --> 01:19:07.240]  Sends it over to the defense.
[01:19:07.480 --> 01:19:08.140]  Here you go.
[01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:10.300]  My second supplemental report.
[01:19:11.040 --> 01:19:14.740]  So then Nick says, OK, I want to throw up the second supplemental report.
[01:19:14.940 --> 01:19:16.180]  He's got the big screen going.
[01:19:16.760 --> 01:19:20.360]  Throws the second supplemental report up there on that big giant monitor.
[01:19:20.440 --> 01:19:24.260]  He's like, all right, first, you caught some mistakes, right?
[01:19:24.260 --> 01:19:25.160]  In your first report.
[01:19:25.420 --> 01:19:27.040]  So what do you do? What did you fix?
[01:19:27.040 --> 01:19:30.540]  He says, yeah, you know, there are a couple of dates that I screwed up.
[01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:36.700]  He said that the first was a mistake and it was at Liberty German Unlocked.
[01:19:37.260 --> 01:19:40.020]  That it was unlocked by Celubrite.
[01:19:40.340 --> 01:19:41.240]  He says, nah.
[01:19:41.800 --> 01:19:45.100]  So it was actually unlocked with the passcode the family had given us.
[01:19:45.100 --> 01:19:47.860]  Which we knew. We knew that from Bunner's testimony.
[01:19:49.300 --> 01:19:52.100]  And then he said that there was a...
[01:19:52.660 --> 01:19:56.460]  He had transposed a couple of numbers or had gotten a number wrong.
[01:19:56.620 --> 01:20:02.060]  It was 1032, but it was really supposed to be like 1012 on the last reported activity.
[01:20:02.280 --> 01:20:04.080]  So he had the number wrong.
[01:20:04.640 --> 01:20:08.660]  Or he transposed the two numbers as to the last reported activity on the phone.
[01:20:09.960 --> 01:20:14.400]  And then section three of his new report talks about the Knowledge C information.
[01:20:14.440 --> 01:20:15.620]  Which is the new thing.
[01:20:16.260 --> 01:20:19.700]  And the way that he kind of describes Knowledge C is like...
[01:20:19.700 --> 01:20:26.820]  We like to use the Knowledge C stuff because it will give you pattern of life information.
[01:20:27.920 --> 01:20:32.160]  Like a lot... we saw a lot of Knowledge C stuff in the Murdoch trial.
[01:20:32.900 --> 01:20:37.220]  Like so all those things that we saw when they were talking about what Paul's habits are.
[01:20:37.220 --> 01:20:42.880]  In terms of when his phones... typically if it gets down to 6% he's plugged in within like five minutes.
[01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:46.920]  You know, like all of his habits with his phone, his phone habits.
[01:20:47.620 --> 01:20:54.460]  You know, you can help develop like a person's pattern of life through the way that they operate their phone.
[01:20:54.460 --> 01:20:56.260]  Through their charging habits.
[01:20:57.020 --> 01:21:01.780]  Through, you know, like when they'll stop doing certain things depending on battery life.
[01:21:01.780 --> 01:21:07.260]  You know, like all those little things that, you know, on the surface you might not think,
[01:21:07.260 --> 01:21:10.580]  Wow, you can really kind of like build a timeline from that shit.
[01:21:10.580 --> 01:21:14.220]  And now that we know that we have access to it, you can.
[01:21:15.320 --> 01:21:19.680]  But he says that the Knowledge C database information is volatile.
[01:21:20.540 --> 01:21:23.000]  So that he says like it could be stored for weeks.
[01:21:23.580 --> 01:21:26.840]  It could be stored for months or longer or a day.
[01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:31.340]  It's volatile. There is no like rhyme or reason to it.
[01:21:31.340 --> 01:21:35.820]  Whether or not Cecil really knows that answer, I have no idea.
[01:21:36.500 --> 01:21:38.340]  I tend to think he doesn't.
[01:21:39.060 --> 01:21:40.740]  I tend to think he doesn't really know yet.
[01:21:41.160 --> 01:21:43.680]  Like on the cross, there's just so much shit he doesn't know.
[01:21:43.700 --> 01:21:45.460]  Like he can't answer questions.
[01:21:47.320 --> 01:21:52.260]  Like answers to things that he should know is like being the digital forensic guy.
[01:21:55.320 --> 01:21:58.000]  I mean, Nick keeps rolling him up there.
[01:21:58.780 --> 01:22:00.520]  I mean, Nick's got to have some faith in him.
[01:22:00.520 --> 01:22:02.680]  I mean, at this point, the guy did the reports.
[01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:04.800]  They got to put him on, right?
[01:22:07.340 --> 01:22:10.660]  You know, I mean, there are just like some questions that he couldn't answer.
[01:22:12.020 --> 01:22:15.940]  Whoever the defense's expert is or their digital forensic expert is,
[01:22:15.980 --> 01:22:20.360]  I think will probably be solid.
[01:22:22.700 --> 01:22:24.060]  So you have to be determined, though.
[01:22:24.060 --> 01:22:33.560]  All right, so his first entry is that...
[01:22:33.560 --> 01:22:34.620]  Oh, wait, let me see.
[01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:40.220]  Yeah, I'm going to tell you flat out as we get longer.
[01:22:40.320 --> 01:22:43.600]  So this is like a four o'clock where I can't feel my hand.
[01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:44.700]  My writing gets worse.
[01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:48.820]  Like my writing actually during the better course of the day was pretty legible.
[01:22:48.980 --> 01:22:50.800]  Like I think Allie could even read it.
[01:22:51.140 --> 01:22:53.600]  But as the day rolls on, it gets worse and worse.
[01:22:54.200 --> 01:22:56.620]  Oh, so because these... all right, this is the...
[01:22:57.200 --> 01:23:00.200]  He's like, it's that first in.
[01:23:01.080 --> 01:23:03.220]  You know, it's the first in, first out type thing.
[01:23:04.080 --> 01:23:05.660]  You know, when new shit comes in.
[01:23:05.740 --> 01:23:07.480]  So that's going to be what's deleted.
[01:23:09.100 --> 01:23:10.720]  Says the camera roll application.
[01:23:13.080 --> 01:23:17.240]  The camera roll app is in use, but not the actual picture.
[01:23:17.240 --> 01:23:27.040]  So the data from your activity of using the camera app on your phone is kept, but not the actual images.
[01:23:27.860 --> 01:23:30.040]  And this, again, we're talking about...
[01:23:30.040 --> 01:23:32.860]  We're talking about the Knowledge C database, OK?
[01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:36.600]  And he says...
[01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:44.520]  And then Nick asks, do you lose Knowledge C info when the phone is turned on and off?
[01:23:44.700 --> 01:23:46.000]  And he says, it depends.
[01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:51.120]  He's like, internet cash stuff could be lost.
[01:23:52.080 --> 01:23:58.060]  He's like, user credit or created stuff, like photos and videos, you're not going to lose that.
[01:23:59.640 --> 01:24:02.560]  Health app data. Is that part of KC?
[01:24:03.240 --> 01:24:07.180]  KC is obviously the Knowledge C database. He says, no, it's not.
[01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:14.820]  Says the health app data once he goes through it.
[01:24:14.820 --> 01:24:16.700]  So then he starts getting into what he found.
[01:24:17.320 --> 01:24:20.080]  So he's like, did you find anything new in the Apple Health data?
[01:24:20.160 --> 01:24:24.440]  I'm like, ooh, no health data. Like, we're going to get more.
[01:24:24.620 --> 01:24:26.500]  He's like, nope, didn't find anything new.
[01:24:27.360 --> 01:24:28.280]  He's like, disappointing.
[01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:32.660]  And then Nick tries to get in.
[01:24:32.860 --> 01:24:35.720]  He's like, all right, I know we've talked about the steps already.
[01:24:35.720 --> 01:24:38.500]  But we got to talk about them again.
[01:24:38.820 --> 01:24:43.720]  Like, so how the hell does the iPhone calculate steps?
[01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:46.180]  Like, did you ever figure it out?
[01:24:46.560 --> 01:24:48.880]  And he's like, well, it's like, kinda.
[01:24:49.620 --> 01:24:51.720]  It's like, I looked at some research and there's some...
[01:24:52.400 --> 01:24:56.340]  I can't remember if it was Swedish or Norwegian company that's doing studies.
[01:24:56.560 --> 01:24:58.980]  And they're like, everybody's trying to figure out how they do it.
[01:24:58.980 --> 01:25:01.480]  Like, what makes that shit tick? Like, how does it work?
[01:25:01.880 --> 01:25:03.140]  But nobody really knows.
[01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:06.500]  It's crazy. It's crazy.
[01:25:06.740 --> 01:25:08.420]  It's like, I keep sitting there and I'm like,
[01:25:08.420 --> 01:25:11.120]  they've created this, like, alien technology
[01:25:11.740 --> 01:25:16.160]  that, like, there's a whole part of the world that's trying to figure out how the shit works.
[01:25:16.580 --> 01:25:17.460]  Isn't that weird?
[01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:20.360]  Like, think about that concept.
[01:25:20.500 --> 01:25:22.360]  There's, like, entire industries
[01:25:23.260 --> 01:25:28.500]  that are trying to figure out how these things that we're all addicted to actually work.
[01:25:30.060 --> 01:25:31.200]  It's wild to me.
[01:25:31.200 --> 01:25:37.200]  It's like, how are there people with brains so big at Apple
[01:25:37.200 --> 01:25:41.860]  that they're able to create a technology that you can't find some hacker
[01:25:41.860 --> 01:25:43.800]  who can get into anything
[01:25:43.800 --> 01:25:46.980]  and who is out there figuring this shit out?
[01:25:48.060 --> 01:25:49.100]  What is happening?
[01:25:49.960 --> 01:25:53.880]  Like, I get lost into rabbit holes when I'm, like, thinking about that shit.
[01:25:53.980 --> 01:25:55.080]  I'm like, it's so crazy.
[01:25:55.480 --> 01:25:57.780]  Like, we're all addicted. Like, we have no idea
[01:25:57.780 --> 01:26:00.540]  what these phones are sucking out of us.
[01:26:00.540 --> 01:26:05.380]  Like, I'm pretty sure our souls are all getting sucked out by the phone, so...
[01:26:05.380 --> 01:26:06.840]  take that for whatever it's worth.
[01:26:07.220 --> 01:26:08.540]  Alright, so...
[01:26:09.620 --> 01:26:12.940]  basically says, like, if the steps are in a controlled environment,
[01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:16.220]  you know, that they're gonna be pretty close to accurate.
[01:26:16.620 --> 01:26:20.860]  Meaning, you know, if you're doing, like, an indoor track to exercise,
[01:26:21.200 --> 01:26:21.980]  it's pretty accurate.
[01:26:22.020 --> 01:26:26.120]  If I'm walking my dog on our usual path, it's pretty accurate.
[01:26:26.140 --> 01:26:28.260]  Like, my steps are almost always the exact same thing
[01:26:28.260 --> 01:26:30.480]  if I've taken my exact route.
[01:26:33.300 --> 01:26:33.900]  So...
[01:26:33.900 --> 01:26:36.300]  But he says the longer...
[01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:37.920]  the longer the walk,
[01:26:39.480 --> 01:26:42.780]  that Apple tends to underestimate the distance.
[01:26:44.240 --> 01:26:45.940]  Take that for whatever it's worth.
[01:26:46.500 --> 01:26:48.260]  So then Nick shifts to in-car.
[01:26:48.980 --> 01:26:51.260]  He's like, you know, could...
[01:26:51.880 --> 01:26:54.840]  could the phone misinterpret a speed bump as a step?
[01:26:55.520 --> 01:26:57.620]  He says it could, yes.
[01:26:58.520 --> 01:27:00.520]  And then he asks, must the phone be on?
[01:27:00.940 --> 01:27:03.660]  He says, yes, phone has to be on.
[01:27:06.780 --> 01:27:07.980]  And then...
[01:27:07.980 --> 01:27:12.240]  he says that...
[01:27:12.240 --> 01:27:15.920]  So he decided on this extraction,
[01:27:17.940 --> 01:27:21.840]  where he had started on the 13th, and he started...
[01:27:22.460 --> 01:27:25.260]  like, when the girls... like, when he did his first thing,
[01:27:25.440 --> 01:27:28.420]  his first extraction report, he started when the girls got dropped off
[01:27:28.420 --> 01:27:29.440]  at the bridge by Kelsey.
[01:27:30.040 --> 01:27:32.180]  On this one...
[01:27:32.180 --> 01:27:34.200]  instead of going all the way back, like I suggested,
[01:27:34.200 --> 01:27:36.080]  like, a couple weeks, a month,
[01:27:36.720 --> 01:27:39.260]  he decides to go back to at least 11 a.m.
[01:27:39.700 --> 01:27:41.080]  He's like, I thought I'd do that,
[01:27:41.320 --> 01:27:42.960]  to get some life pattern stuff.
[01:27:43.500 --> 01:27:45.540]  I'm like, come on, dude.
[01:27:45.540 --> 01:27:48.280]  I'm like, you don't want to see, like, if anybody was texting the girls,
[01:27:49.000 --> 01:27:50.280]  like, the days leading into this?
[01:27:50.280 --> 01:27:52.860]  He's like, really? Really?
[01:27:54.520 --> 01:27:57.020]  I'm like, I don't... I'm like, come on, bro.
[01:27:58.220 --> 01:28:00.120]  Do some goddamn police work, man.
[01:28:02.020 --> 01:28:02.480]  So...
[01:28:02.480 --> 01:28:05.540]  he says...
[01:28:05.540 --> 01:28:07.040]  there's no location data,
[01:28:07.720 --> 01:28:09.340]  no updated location data,
[01:28:10.360 --> 01:28:11.220]  in the health app.
[01:28:12.240 --> 01:28:14.700]  He says, other apps do give location data.
[01:28:15.320 --> 01:28:17.700]  So, because he had shifted to figuring out location data.
[01:28:17.700 --> 01:28:20.060]  And he says that the user of the phone,
[01:28:21.220 --> 01:28:24.840]  for independent apps, and any of us iPhone users know this,
[01:28:25.240 --> 01:28:27.940]  that you can toggle your location data,
[01:28:28.440 --> 01:28:29.960]  the location data services,
[01:28:30.460 --> 01:28:33.040]  the location services data, like, on and off,
[01:28:33.240 --> 01:28:34.420]  on various apps.
[01:28:35.740 --> 01:28:38.120]  Now, I know for a fact I missed one of these,
[01:28:38.140 --> 01:28:40.220]  because he was reading through that shit so fast.
[01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:42.240]  I meant to hit Andrew up and like,
[01:28:42.260 --> 01:28:44.800]  oh, I hate to beg you for your notes again,
[01:28:44.800 --> 01:28:46.060]  but could you give me a note?
[01:28:46.060 --> 01:28:48.320]  But the ones that I caught,
[01:28:48.680 --> 01:28:52.440]  that Libby had her apps toggled,
[01:28:52.560 --> 01:28:54.060]  or her location services toggled,
[01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:57.240]  were the app store, the maps,
[01:28:58.120 --> 01:29:00.480]  the camera, Snapchat,
[01:29:01.600 --> 01:29:02.420]  the weather app,
[01:29:02.760 --> 01:29:03.920]  and for some reason he said,
[01:29:03.920 --> 01:29:05.060]  never for Walmart.
[01:29:06.940 --> 01:29:07.520]  I was like, is it?
[01:29:07.640 --> 01:29:09.540]  Am I missing the significance of what?
[01:29:10.040 --> 01:29:11.840]  Like, why never for Walmart?
[01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:14.440]  I will never, ever,
[01:29:14.940 --> 01:29:17.300]  put my location services on for Walmart.
[01:29:17.460 --> 01:29:18.920]  Don't ask me to,
[01:29:19.340 --> 01:29:20.380]  because I'm not doing it.
[01:29:20.400 --> 01:29:23.200]  It was a strange thing that he specified.
[01:29:23.540 --> 01:29:25.220]  I'm sure there was a laundry list of shit
[01:29:25.220 --> 01:29:27.120]  that she did not have it toggled on for.
[01:29:27.460 --> 01:29:29.100]  I don't know why he said never for Walmart.
[01:29:29.300 --> 01:29:30.600]  Maybe that was like,
[01:29:30.600 --> 01:29:32.200]  he was trying to give Walmart the business.
[01:29:32.360 --> 01:29:32.900]  I don't know.
[01:29:33.900 --> 01:29:35.660]  All right, so,
[01:29:35.660 --> 01:29:38.620]  so what that means is that when you are using
[01:29:38.620 --> 01:29:40.760]  that particular app that you have allowed
[01:29:41.300 --> 01:29:42.820]  to track your location,
[01:29:42.820 --> 01:29:44.500]  so when she's in Snap,
[01:29:45.420 --> 01:29:47.140]  her location services are on.
[01:29:48.160 --> 01:29:50.560]  Okay, when she's got her maps open,
[01:29:51.180 --> 01:29:52.140]  that's when you got it.
[01:29:52.140 --> 01:29:53.380]  If you want your maps to work,
[01:29:53.400 --> 01:29:55.240]  you got to have your location services on.
[01:29:55.660 --> 01:29:57.020]  She's got her camera on.
[01:29:57.900 --> 01:29:59.520]  It's tracking her GPS stuff.
[01:29:59.960 --> 01:30:01.500]  Okay, tells her where she's at.
[01:30:01.940 --> 01:30:03.140]  He says that there's very,
[01:30:03.140 --> 01:30:05.900]  they're very accurate GPS location on these apps.
[01:30:06.540 --> 01:30:08.100]  Okay, that's what Cecil says.
[01:30:08.940 --> 01:30:10.040]  So then we shift
[01:30:10.900 --> 01:30:14.620]  to taking care of the issue raised by the defense
[01:30:14.620 --> 01:30:16.920]  with the video,
[01:30:17.220 --> 01:30:19.160]  taken at 2-13-51,
[01:30:20.400 --> 01:30:23.940]  and that the defense brought up this concept that,
[01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:26.640]  oh, well, the Longe and Lat,
[01:30:27.160 --> 01:30:28.640]  the Longitude and Latitude,
[01:30:29.500 --> 01:30:32.000]  did you happen to see when she had Bunner,
[01:30:33.460 --> 01:30:35.280]  O'Shea had Bunner on the stand.
[01:30:35.360 --> 01:30:36.460]  She's like, did you know,
[01:30:37.620 --> 01:30:38.500]  did you notice
[01:30:38.500 --> 01:30:42.520]  that the Longitude and Latitude for where this video was taken was actually
[01:30:42.520 --> 01:30:44.140]  at the high school?
[01:30:44.900 --> 01:30:46.520]  I thought she said Memorial Park,
[01:30:46.620 --> 01:30:48.500]  but today they were talking about the high school.
[01:30:49.860 --> 01:30:50.900]  And he's like, well,
[01:30:51.040 --> 01:30:52.560]  you know, and then that,
[01:30:53.080 --> 01:30:55.560]  that was the part, now we know where Nick got that,
[01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:58.180]  because like I was talking about how like Nick had
[01:30:58.180 --> 01:30:59.880]  gotten back on redirect
[01:30:59.880 --> 01:31:01.820]  and said, well,
[01:31:02.100 --> 01:31:03.640]  isn't it really like when you
[01:31:04.700 --> 01:31:05.660]  initially open
[01:31:06.260 --> 01:31:08.080]  the app in order to take
[01:31:08.080 --> 01:31:09.500]  whatever app it is,
[01:31:09.620 --> 01:31:11.740]  whether it's your camera or whether it's Snap
[01:31:11.740 --> 01:31:12.960]  and you're taking the picture,
[01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:16.460]  it's giving you
[01:31:16.460 --> 01:31:18.080]  a much bigger
[01:31:18.080 --> 01:31:19.600]  geographical location.
[01:31:19.740 --> 01:31:22.400]  But as the video continues,
[01:31:23.940 --> 01:31:26.300]  it closes in on where you're actually at.
[01:31:27.140 --> 01:31:28.400]  I was like, oh,
[01:31:28.820 --> 01:31:29.960]  I was like, that's interesting,
[01:31:30.260 --> 01:31:31.720]  you know, and I mean, that kind of,
[01:31:31.720 --> 01:31:33.640]  it tracks, I could see that being the case.
[01:31:34.080 --> 01:31:36.040]  But so today we got the actual answers,
[01:31:36.040 --> 01:31:39.160]  the actual reason why that is,
[01:31:39.180 --> 01:31:40.400]  which I thought was interesting.
[01:31:42.240 --> 01:31:43.080]  And he said that,
[01:31:44.720 --> 01:31:45.480]  so at
[01:31:45.480 --> 01:31:47.340]  2-13-55, the GPS
[01:31:47.960 --> 01:31:48.440]  location
[01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:51.160]  shifts to the trail.
[01:31:51.740 --> 01:31:52.700]  So we've got,
[01:31:54.920 --> 01:31:55.840]  I'm sorry, I wrote it,
[01:31:55.840 --> 01:31:57.060]  so it's still one,
[01:31:57.220 --> 01:31:59.160]  I wish they'd not use military time.
[01:31:59.840 --> 01:32:01.500]  Like, Nick asked them not to either.
[01:32:02.240 --> 01:32:03.260]  Like, Nick's like, dude,
[01:32:03.800 --> 01:32:05.620]  it's like, can you please just use
[01:32:05.620 --> 01:32:07.180]  regular time? He's like, I,
[01:32:07.240 --> 01:32:10.100]  I don't know how to do the military time, which
[01:32:10.640 --> 01:32:12.040]  Nick was in the military
[01:32:12.400 --> 01:32:13.580]  100%. Like, this is what I'm saying,
[01:32:13.620 --> 01:32:15.420]  Nick's always trying to take care of that jury.
[01:32:16.420 --> 01:32:17.720]  Like, cause, like,
[01:32:17.820 --> 01:32:19.240]  so he, but he puts it on him.
[01:32:20.460 --> 01:32:21.820]  You know what I mean? It's like, it's a
[01:32:21.820 --> 01:32:23.380]  solid move. It's a solid move. It's like,
[01:32:23.380 --> 01:32:25.640]  I don't get it. Like, don't do the military time shit
[01:32:25.640 --> 01:32:27.520]  cause I don't know what it, it's like, I don't want to have to sit there
[01:32:27.520 --> 01:32:29.540]  like, work backwards from 13
[01:32:29.540 --> 01:32:31.100]  all the time. It's like, I have to do.
[01:32:31.360 --> 01:32:33.040]  See, I can't remember what the trick is.
[01:32:33.040 --> 01:32:35.000]  I'm like, so I know 13 is 1.
[01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:37.360]  I'm sure you guys are going to pound me in the chat
[01:32:37.360 --> 01:32:38.680]  like, oh, here's a trick.
[01:32:39.280 --> 01:32:40.300]  Or you'll call me an idiot.
[01:32:41.200 --> 01:32:43.300]  You know, but it's like, so, alright, so we've
[01:32:43.800 --> 01:32:44.240]  got
[01:32:45.140 --> 01:32:46.920]  213.51 video taken.
[01:32:47.800 --> 01:32:49.140]  It has them located at
[01:32:49.140 --> 01:32:50.460]  Delphi High School.
[01:32:51.220 --> 01:32:53.160]  At, uh, and so that's, remember
[01:32:53.160 --> 01:32:54.540]  that's at 51.
[01:32:54.940 --> 01:32:55.780]  13.51.
[01:32:56.800 --> 01:32:57.680]  113.51.
[01:32:58.080 --> 01:32:59.660]  At 113.55
[01:33:00.900 --> 01:33:01.380]  by,
[01:33:01.720 --> 01:33:04.000]  so we're talking a mere four seconds later
[01:33:05.000 --> 01:33:05.720]  it's now
[01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:07.480]  got the GPS located
[01:33:08.480 --> 01:33:09.460]  at the trails.
[01:33:10.520 --> 01:33:11.000]  Alright.
[01:33:12.620 --> 01:33:13.860]  So, um, and
[01:33:13.860 --> 01:33:15.940]  he says that it's within a
[01:33:15.940 --> 01:33:17.500]  30 meter range of accuracy.
[01:33:17.900 --> 01:33:20.700]  That, that reading. So
[01:33:22.260 --> 01:33:23.820]  Nick asked him, like, well, how does
[01:33:23.820 --> 01:33:25.820]  that work? Like, why is it, why is it doing that?
[01:33:25.820 --> 01:33:27.980]  Like, what is the deal with that shit?
[01:33:28.720 --> 01:33:30.340]  And he's like, well, the reason
[01:33:30.340 --> 01:33:32.120]  is that the phone developers,
[01:33:33.180 --> 01:33:34.320]  your Apple, you know, I mean,
[01:33:34.380 --> 01:33:36.100]  look, they hear us when we're saying my battery
[01:33:36.100 --> 01:33:38.220]  dies all the time. It's always dying too fast.
[01:33:38.380 --> 01:33:40.180]  Like, what, like, what's going
[01:33:40.180 --> 01:33:42.160]  on, dude? Make a battery that lasts longer.
[01:33:42.500 --> 01:33:44.020]  They hear us.
[01:33:44.160 --> 01:33:46.400]  And they really care about us.
[01:33:46.580 --> 01:33:47.360]  They really do.
[01:33:48.020 --> 01:33:49.980]  But they, they want our battery to last
[01:33:49.980 --> 01:33:52.080]  longer. So,
[01:33:52.540 --> 01:33:53.920]  uh, they'll, they'll put
[01:33:53.920 --> 01:33:55.860]  features, they'll install features
[01:33:56.460 --> 01:33:58.760]  that do things to preserve
[01:33:58.760 --> 01:34:00.660]  the battery. That makes perfect sense, right?
[01:34:00.760 --> 01:34:02.380]  So, like, they said,
[01:34:02.420 --> 01:34:03.300]  all right, look,
[01:34:04.500 --> 01:34:06.320]  like, like, in the beginning, like,
[01:34:06.360 --> 01:34:08.060]  if they're just opening up their camera,
[01:34:09.320 --> 01:34:10.640]  we don't want it connecting
[01:34:10.640 --> 01:34:12.300]  to satellite right away.
[01:34:12.660 --> 01:34:14.280]  Because that takes up way more
[01:34:14.280 --> 01:34:16.080]  battery than just
[01:34:16.080 --> 01:34:17.260]  pinging off a tower.
[01:34:18.120 --> 01:34:20.300]  It's facts. So that's
[01:34:20.300 --> 01:34:21.960]  what he says. So he says, like,
[01:34:22.160 --> 01:34:24.140]  initially, when you open your camera, or you
[01:34:24.140 --> 01:34:26.360]  open SNAT, and it's got, you've got your
[01:34:26.360 --> 01:34:28.380]  location services toggled
[01:34:28.380 --> 01:34:30.320]  on, that initially
[01:34:30.320 --> 01:34:32.400]  what it'll do in order to
[01:34:32.400 --> 01:34:33.520]  conserve battery
[01:34:34.130 --> 01:34:36.440]  is that it will ping off a tower.
[01:34:36.720 --> 01:34:38.360]  Just to give you a general location.
[01:34:38.520 --> 01:34:40.360]  Now, we know at that point in time
[01:34:40.940 --> 01:34:42.200]  that there was one,
[01:34:42.280 --> 01:34:44.380]  maybe two towers in Delphi total.
[01:34:44.700 --> 01:34:45.720]  So that's what it did.
[01:34:45.820 --> 01:34:48.040]  It pinged the tower. So when
[01:34:48.040 --> 01:34:50.220]  they gave back the longitudinal latitude,
[01:34:51.440 --> 01:34:52.310]  it had it
[01:34:53.090 --> 01:34:54.590]  closer to the high school.
[01:34:55.610 --> 01:34:56.830]  But then, four seconds
[01:34:56.830 --> 01:34:58.790]  later, so the phone's like, alright,
[01:34:58.950 --> 01:34:59.830]  alright, dudes,
[01:35:00.450 --> 01:35:02.090]  dudes getting real with this video.
[01:35:02.250 --> 01:35:03.890]  Like, this is a keeper video.
[01:35:04.470 --> 01:35:06.370]  We better send it up to the big dog.
[01:35:06.410 --> 01:35:08.330]  So they fire it up to the satellite, which
[01:35:08.330 --> 01:35:10.550]  uses more battery, eats more battery power.
[01:35:11.030 --> 01:35:12.390]  But, it
[01:35:12.390 --> 01:35:14.250]  gives you accurate location. Because
[01:35:14.250 --> 01:35:15.850]  satellite's always going to beat tower.
[01:35:16.270 --> 01:35:18.310]  Always. In terms of
[01:35:19.710 --> 01:35:20.190]  accuracy
[01:35:20.190 --> 01:35:21.030]  and location.
[01:35:22.390 --> 01:35:24.310]  Alright, so
[01:35:24.310 --> 01:35:26.030]  so that kind of
[01:35:26.030 --> 01:35:28.350]  explains that. So to me,
[01:35:29.070 --> 01:35:30.010]  like, kind of that
[01:35:30.010 --> 01:35:32.490]  little mystery of
[01:35:32.490 --> 01:35:34.450]  the issue of the video,
[01:35:35.030 --> 01:35:36.210]  why it's showing,
[01:35:37.610 --> 01:35:38.170]  like, clearly
[01:35:38.170 --> 01:35:39.650]  we're seeing it's on the bridge.
[01:35:40.750 --> 01:35:42.270]  Right? We're clearly seeing
[01:35:42.270 --> 01:35:43.310]  that it's on the bridge.
[01:35:43.970 --> 01:35:46.190]  But, what we're
[01:35:47.710 --> 01:35:48.230]  told
[01:35:48.230 --> 01:35:50.510]  is that somehow our eyes are seeing
[01:35:50.510 --> 01:35:52.530]  one thing and the data's telling it took
[01:35:52.530 --> 01:35:53.370]  place somewhere else.
[01:35:53.490 --> 01:35:56.190]  I'm like, well,
[01:35:56.570 --> 01:35:57.330]  what's that mean?
[01:35:58.450 --> 01:35:59.430]  What are we saying?
[01:36:00.850 --> 01:36:02.350]  Like, how could this happen?
[01:36:04.430 --> 01:36:05.190]  Is this
[01:36:05.190 --> 01:36:06.570]  is this bridge thing a deep
[01:36:06.570 --> 01:36:08.390]  fake long before deep fakes
[01:36:08.390 --> 01:36:11.450]  existed? I mean, I don't know.
[01:36:11.450 --> 01:36:12.070]  I don't know.
[01:36:15.310 --> 01:36:16.470]  so I consider that
[01:36:16.470 --> 01:36:17.930]  the issue to be not an issue anymore
[01:36:18.450 --> 01:36:20.070]  in terms of the jury's minds.
[01:36:20.070 --> 01:36:21.930]  I don't think that they're going to think that's the thing.
[01:36:22.070 --> 01:36:23.990]  I think that was an ample
[01:36:23.990 --> 01:36:25.170]  an ample
[01:36:26.810 --> 01:36:28.430]  explanation for what happened there.
[01:36:30.110 --> 01:36:30.510]  So
[01:36:31.030 --> 01:36:32.730]  he says the Snapchat app
[01:36:33.190 --> 01:36:34.710]  man, there was a lot of Snapchat
[01:36:34.710 --> 01:36:36.630]  talk. It's like
[01:36:36.630 --> 01:36:38.190]  oh man, I wish I had Cameron,
[01:36:38.230 --> 01:36:40.330]  our 18-year-old, with us. I've been asking her so many
[01:36:40.330 --> 01:36:42.230]  fucking questions. I've been like, how does Snapchat
[01:36:42.230 --> 01:36:42.930]  work?
[01:36:42.930 --> 01:36:45.010]  Can't tell me how it works.
[01:36:45.150 --> 01:36:47.010]  Like, why is it keeping from the story?
[01:36:47.210 --> 01:36:48.950]  But then it disappears if you're
[01:36:48.950 --> 01:36:51.230]  just posting it on a chat.
[01:36:51.490 --> 01:36:53.050]  Like, what? I don't get it.
[01:36:53.150 --> 01:36:53.650]  I don't know.
[01:36:54.710 --> 01:36:56.990]  Like, watching a
[01:36:56.990 --> 01:36:58.930]  courtroom full of
[01:36:59.590 --> 01:37:01.050]  Gen X and Boomer
[01:37:01.050 --> 01:37:02.930]  lawyers trying to understand
[01:37:04.230 --> 01:37:05.130]  Snapchat is
[01:37:05.130 --> 01:37:06.970]  one of the most glorious things that
[01:37:06.970 --> 01:37:08.550]  you will ever see. It's like
[01:37:08.550 --> 01:37:10.370]  it's just an error.
[01:37:10.370 --> 01:37:12.520]  It's like it's a human
[01:37:13.270 --> 01:37:14.810]  comedy of errors.
[01:37:15.070 --> 01:37:16.710]  Just like a bunch of people
[01:37:16.710 --> 01:37:18.710]  that have no idea
[01:37:18.710 --> 01:37:20.610]  how to operate Snapchat.
[01:37:20.850 --> 01:37:21.790]  None of them.
[01:37:22.790 --> 01:37:24.430]  Not Andy, not Brad,
[01:37:24.490 --> 01:37:26.450]  not Nick, not Deener,
[01:37:27.090 --> 01:37:28.410]  not Littrell, not
[01:37:28.410 --> 01:37:29.710]  Gull, not me.
[01:37:30.350 --> 01:37:31.590]  No one I know
[01:37:32.360 --> 01:37:33.550]  in that courtroom
[01:37:34.220 --> 01:37:36.690]  I don't think Andrea knows how to use it.
[01:37:36.830 --> 01:37:38.810]  I don't think Lee knows how to use it either.
[01:37:38.810 --> 01:37:40.590]  I don't think any of us are like...
[01:37:40.590 --> 01:37:42.330]  If anybody does, it would be Andrea.
[01:37:42.890 --> 01:37:45.010]  Like, she might know. But like, I have no
[01:37:45.010 --> 01:37:46.710]  clue. And like, nobody...
[01:37:46.710 --> 01:37:49.090]  I'm like, why didn't they get somebody
[01:37:50.270 --> 01:37:50.790]  that
[01:37:50.790 --> 01:37:52.430]  knows how the hell... Oh!
[01:37:53.050 --> 01:37:54.830]  There's definitely jurors that know.
[01:37:54.930 --> 01:37:56.670]  So the younger jurors, because
[01:37:56.670 --> 01:37:58.530]  when we get to our jury questions,
[01:37:59.990 --> 01:38:00.830]  there are a shit
[01:38:00.830 --> 01:38:02.530]  ton of Snapchat questions.
[01:38:02.910 --> 01:38:04.710]  But it seems like a lot of them don't understand
[01:38:04.710 --> 01:38:06.770]  it either. You know?
[01:38:06.770 --> 01:38:08.830]  And it's like...
[01:38:08.830 --> 01:38:10.850]  But it's really... We're talking about the retention
[01:38:10.850 --> 01:38:12.870]  of data with Snapchat.
[01:38:13.530 --> 01:38:14.730]  You know, because the entire
[01:38:14.730 --> 01:38:16.930]  thing that drew the kids to it
[01:38:16.930 --> 01:38:18.870]  was the disappearing
[01:38:18.870 --> 01:38:21.110]  data. They loved the concept
[01:38:21.110 --> 01:38:22.830]  that shit that they would put out to the world
[01:38:22.830 --> 01:38:24.870]  would vanish. Like a
[01:38:24.870 --> 01:38:26.310]  fart in the air.
[01:38:26.870 --> 01:38:28.710]  Like, they loved that. But
[01:38:28.710 --> 01:38:31.090]  what it does for the rest of the crime-solving
[01:38:31.090 --> 01:38:32.850]  world is it creates a whole
[01:38:32.850 --> 01:38:34.710]  bunch of questions about
[01:38:34.710 --> 01:38:36.470]  what the hell happened to that shit.
[01:38:36.670 --> 01:38:38.670]  And then when you put
[01:38:39.730 --> 01:38:40.330]  extraction
[01:38:40.330 --> 01:38:41.430]  software
[01:38:43.690 --> 01:38:45.090]  into the mix
[01:38:45.090 --> 01:38:46.950]  and you're trying to pull it
[01:38:46.950 --> 01:38:47.510]  back,
[01:38:48.850 --> 01:38:50.670]  it leaves us with a bunch of questions
[01:38:50.670 --> 01:38:52.630]  on what can we...
[01:38:52.630 --> 01:38:54.370]  What can we extract back?
[01:38:54.850 --> 01:38:56.830]  Like if it's posted to your
[01:38:56.830 --> 01:38:57.690]  story,
[01:38:59.410 --> 01:39:00.770]  it's there for
[01:39:00.770 --> 01:39:02.810]  I think 24 hours before it
[01:39:02.810 --> 01:39:03.330]  vanishes.
[01:39:04.770 --> 01:39:06.730]  Like my daughter Cameron told me that you
[01:39:06.730 --> 01:39:08.370]  can actually... like you can
[01:39:09.010 --> 01:39:10.690]  save a shot that you take
[01:39:10.690 --> 01:39:12.750]  into you. You can toggle that it's something that
[01:39:12.750 --> 01:39:14.670]  you can actively put on that the default
[01:39:14.670 --> 01:39:16.210]  is to get rid of the picture.
[01:39:18.990 --> 01:39:19.330]  And...
[01:39:20.010 --> 01:39:20.490]  Wow.
[01:39:21.490 --> 01:39:22.850]  I'm trying not to read this chat.
[01:39:22.930 --> 01:39:24.650]  Y'all are off. You guys
[01:39:24.650 --> 01:39:26.730]  are all off the hook tonight.
[01:39:29.190 --> 01:39:30.910]  So yeah, no, I've got no
[01:39:30.910 --> 01:39:33.090]  clue on Snapchat.
[01:39:33.510 --> 01:39:35.190]  But she said that if you
[01:39:35.830 --> 01:39:37.250]  have that settings
[01:39:37.250 --> 01:39:39.370]  set on your Snapchat in the settings
[01:39:39.370 --> 01:39:41.250]  that you can keep a picture
[01:39:41.250 --> 01:39:43.650]  that will disappear for the Snapchat world
[01:39:43.650 --> 01:39:45.450]  but will remain on your device.
[01:39:46.170 --> 01:39:46.910]  Alright, so
[01:39:48.090 --> 01:39:49.250]  as far as Snapchat,
[01:39:49.470 --> 01:39:51.450]  the GPS data is something that was toggled
[01:39:51.450 --> 01:39:52.090]  on
[01:39:54.370 --> 01:39:55.190]  Libby's phone.
[01:39:55.690 --> 01:39:57.410]  And the latitude and longitude
[01:39:57.410 --> 01:39:59.410]  on that is very
[01:39:59.410 --> 01:40:01.590]  accurate. It's within five meters,
[01:40:01.590 --> 01:40:02.510]  he says.
[01:40:05.250 --> 01:40:07.410]  He then gets into
[01:40:08.450 --> 01:40:09.710]  making comparisons
[01:40:10.370 --> 01:40:11.550]  about... and this is
[01:40:11.550 --> 01:40:13.390]  where it starts getting tasty to
[01:40:13.390 --> 01:40:15.590]  me. Cause if anybody watches
[01:40:15.590 --> 01:40:17.650]  our content consistently,
[01:40:18.270 --> 01:40:19.650]  the one thing that I've asked
[01:40:19.650 --> 01:40:20.590]  to have answered
[01:40:21.210 --> 01:40:23.450]  in this case, the how
[01:40:23.450 --> 01:40:25.590]  long to die in the cold for this
[01:40:25.590 --> 01:40:26.790]  case for me
[01:40:26.790 --> 01:40:27.910]  is
[01:40:28.790 --> 01:40:30.150]  why in the hell
[01:40:30.430 --> 01:40:31.690]  that phone
[01:40:33.250 --> 01:40:34.810]  that was being
[01:40:34.810 --> 01:40:36.750]  pinged by AT&T every
[01:40:36.750 --> 01:40:38.550]  15 minutes
[01:40:40.510 --> 01:40:42.750]  didn't ping off the top one
[01:40:42.750 --> 01:40:44.730]  time in 11 or 12 hours
[01:40:44.730 --> 01:40:46.570]  before 4.33am
[01:40:46.570 --> 01:40:48.330]  when all the messages flow in.
[01:40:48.590 --> 01:40:51.050]  15 SMS messages flow in.
[01:40:52.490 --> 01:40:53.910]  That's the answer I want.
[01:40:55.250 --> 01:40:55.810]  That...
[01:40:55.810 --> 01:40:58.370]  that's a game changer for me.
[01:40:58.610 --> 01:40:59.810]  The game changer
[01:40:59.810 --> 01:41:01.810]  for me. One way or another, it's a game
[01:41:01.810 --> 01:41:03.470]  changer. If there's a reasonable
[01:41:03.470 --> 01:41:05.610]  explanation, is this
[01:41:05.610 --> 01:41:06.850]  bullshit about it
[01:41:06.850 --> 01:41:09.410]  being in the water and drying out
[01:41:09.410 --> 01:41:11.310]  in 20 to 70 degree... nah.
[01:41:11.690 --> 01:41:13.110]  Bullshit. That ain't it.
[01:41:13.790 --> 01:41:15.310]  I need a sciency answer.
[01:41:15.410 --> 01:41:16.890]  I need an actual answer.
[01:41:17.630 --> 01:41:19.930]  So I come into this Chris Cecil
[01:41:19.930 --> 01:41:21.770]  direct examination with great
[01:41:21.770 --> 01:41:22.170]  hope.
[01:41:23.630 --> 01:41:24.670]  Great hope.
[01:41:25.830 --> 01:41:26.730]  You know what I mean?
[01:41:30.470 --> 01:41:30.990]  So...
[01:41:32.070 --> 01:41:32.590]  Um...
[01:41:32.590 --> 01:41:33.650]  But to get into the battery
[01:41:33.650 --> 01:41:35.490]  power first. Which is also interesting.
[01:41:36.090 --> 01:41:37.730]  We all want to know. Was the battery
[01:41:37.730 --> 01:41:39.690]  dead? Was it alive? So back
[01:41:39.690 --> 01:41:41.570]  in his first extraction report
[01:41:41.570 --> 01:41:43.750]  back which he testified in late July
[01:41:43.750 --> 01:41:45.890]  Cecil said that
[01:41:45.890 --> 01:41:47.590]  at that point, when
[01:41:47.590 --> 01:41:49.150]  OJ put his feet to the fire
[01:41:49.150 --> 01:41:51.370]  and she said, well...
[01:41:51.370 --> 01:41:52.910]  When do you...
[01:41:52.910 --> 01:41:55.250]  When do you think the battery died
[01:41:55.250 --> 01:41:57.290]  on the phone? He's like, I'm not
[01:41:57.290 --> 01:41:59.310]  sure, but I'm going to guess 10pm.
[01:41:59.850 --> 01:42:01.190]  Something to that effect.
[01:42:02.910 --> 01:42:03.370]  Today he
[01:42:03.370 --> 01:42:05.320]  said, I thought back in
[01:42:06.350 --> 01:42:07.150]  late July,
[01:42:07.190 --> 01:42:09.290]  early August, that the phone died.
[01:42:10.030 --> 01:42:11.230]  The battery power
[01:42:11.230 --> 01:42:13.130]  ceased to operate any longer
[01:42:13.130 --> 01:42:15.170]  at 10pm. On his
[01:42:15.170 --> 01:42:17.250]  second extraction report, that has
[01:42:17.250 --> 01:42:17.790]  changed.
[01:42:19.690 --> 01:42:21.250]  So he says that
[01:42:21.970 --> 01:42:23.010]  he thinks that the battery
[01:42:23.010 --> 01:42:24.950]  on the phone...
[01:42:24.950 --> 01:42:26.790]  He prefaced it by saying it's very
[01:42:26.790 --> 01:42:27.530]  complex.
[01:42:29.730 --> 01:42:30.690]  First thing...
[01:42:30.690 --> 01:42:32.910]  There's this part of me that just loves Cecil
[01:42:32.910 --> 01:42:35.090]  because he's just like a
[01:42:35.090 --> 01:42:36.950]  nerdy guy trying to go up there
[01:42:36.950 --> 01:42:38.510]  and spit truth.
[01:42:38.670 --> 01:42:40.270]  He's not trying to be evasive.
[01:42:41.630 --> 01:42:42.950]  There's nothing dishonest
[01:42:42.950 --> 01:42:44.470]  about the guy at all.
[01:42:44.470 --> 01:42:46.850]  You know what I mean? He's a very
[01:42:46.850 --> 01:42:48.490]  likeable guy, frankly.
[01:42:50.030 --> 01:42:50.450]  And I think
[01:42:51.170 --> 01:42:52.330]  he's a do-gooder
[01:42:52.330 --> 01:42:52.890]  cop.
[01:42:55.130 --> 01:42:57.970]  Chris Cecil is not
[01:42:57.970 --> 01:42:58.590]  Captain Corruption.
[01:43:00.150 --> 01:43:00.790]  This dude
[01:43:00.790 --> 01:43:02.490]  is just trying to get answers
[01:43:02.490 --> 01:43:03.270]  diligently.
[01:43:04.430 --> 01:43:06.550]  But I think that the problem for him is,
[01:43:06.550 --> 01:43:08.670]  and I think that he's got the mind for
[01:43:08.670 --> 01:43:10.470]  it, I think that the reality
[01:43:11.290 --> 01:43:12.630]  is... And he's still
[01:43:12.630 --> 01:43:14.930]  like... I think he's just finishing his Masters.
[01:43:15.810 --> 01:43:16.670]  So the guy is...
[01:43:17.150 --> 01:43:18.570]  He's trying to learn it all.
[01:43:19.150 --> 01:43:20.870]  He's trying to learn it all. He really
[01:43:20.870 --> 01:43:22.810]  is. So I give him credit
[01:43:22.810 --> 01:43:23.430]  for that.
[01:43:25.510 --> 01:43:26.750]  But I just think
[01:43:26.750 --> 01:43:28.790]  in terms of kind of like where
[01:43:28.790 --> 01:43:30.830]  he was at at the time and like where he's
[01:43:30.830 --> 01:43:32.090]  at right at this moment,
[01:43:33.090 --> 01:43:34.530]  there are some gaping holes.
[01:43:35.470 --> 01:43:36.890]  And in a case like this,
[01:43:37.010 --> 01:43:38.810]  I don't think we can afford
[01:43:39.270 --> 01:43:41.030]  witnesses with gaping holes
[01:43:41.030 --> 01:43:43.410]  that are considered to be experts.
[01:43:44.730 --> 01:43:46.410]  That's kind of where I'm at with it.
[01:43:47.190 --> 01:43:49.010]  You know what I mean? So it's like...
[01:43:49.010 --> 01:43:51.070]  I don't want to come off like I'm picking on the guy.
[01:43:51.670 --> 01:43:53.270]  But in a case that we all want
[01:43:53.270 --> 01:43:54.890]  justice for the girls, in a case
[01:43:54.890 --> 01:43:56.570]  where we need
[01:43:56.570 --> 01:43:59.030]  answers, in a case that I consider to be
[01:43:59.030 --> 01:44:01.310]  a true whodunit, we
[01:44:01.310 --> 01:44:03.150]  need definitive answers.
[01:44:04.170 --> 01:44:04.930]  Yeah, Modz,
[01:44:04.970 --> 01:44:07.210]  can you post our PayPal and my Venmo?
[01:44:07.410 --> 01:44:08.750]  Like I keep seeing people ask.
[01:44:08.750 --> 01:44:10.310]  Jay has that running every
[01:44:10.310 --> 01:44:12.630]  five minutes. It's like a constant flow.
[01:44:13.350 --> 01:44:14.430]  We need that in there.
[01:44:14.690 --> 01:44:16.930]  If people are willing to give, I'd like to give them the opportunity.
[01:44:16.970 --> 01:44:18.270]  Thank you so much.
[01:44:25.350 --> 01:44:26.770]  He prefaces it by saying
[01:44:26.770 --> 01:44:28.850]  it's very complex. The whole battery power
[01:44:28.850 --> 01:44:31.090]  thing on the iPhone is like
[01:44:31.090 --> 01:44:33.390]  alien technology. I don't really understand it.
[01:44:33.930 --> 01:44:34.770]  But he says that
[01:44:36.030 --> 01:44:36.990]  we all know
[01:44:36.990 --> 01:44:38.990]  that once you get below 20%,
[01:44:39.770 --> 01:44:40.930]  you'll get the message.
[01:44:41.870 --> 01:44:43.030]  Your phone's at 20%,
[01:44:43.030 --> 01:44:44.810]  suck bag, you might want to plug it in,
[01:44:45.010 --> 01:44:46.210]  get a charge on that thing.
[01:44:47.210 --> 01:44:48.950]  And then, you know, you can
[01:44:48.950 --> 01:44:51.070]  either do it if you have the ability to do it
[01:44:51.070 --> 01:44:52.210]  or not.
[01:44:53.570 --> 01:44:55.250]  You know. And then at 10,
[01:44:55.370 --> 01:44:56.950]  we get another, pops up.
[01:44:57.150 --> 01:44:58.470]  Hey! Dude!
[01:44:58.970 --> 01:45:00.930]  Your phone's about to die, bro. You're at 10.
[01:45:01.410 --> 01:45:03.430]  You want to go into low power mode, at least?
[01:45:04.090 --> 01:45:04.530]  Okay.
[01:45:06.250 --> 01:45:06.770]  Boop.
[01:45:07.370 --> 01:45:07.710]  Um.
[01:45:08.750 --> 01:45:10.450]  And then we get another one at 5.
[01:45:11.070 --> 01:45:12.530]  The phone's like, look, man,
[01:45:14.070 --> 01:45:14.910]  I'm trying to tell you,
[01:45:16.650 --> 01:45:17.730]  Like your lifeline.
[01:45:18.990 --> 01:45:20.810]  The thing that you completely,
[01:45:21.250 --> 01:45:23.010]  completely rely on
[01:45:23.650 --> 01:45:24.910]  is about to die.
[01:45:25.410 --> 01:45:26.550]  You should probably
[01:45:26.550 --> 01:45:28.370]  give it a little juice.
[01:45:29.410 --> 01:45:30.530]  And if you don't do it,
[01:45:31.550 --> 01:45:31.810]  no.
[01:45:33.150 --> 01:45:33.550]  It dies.
[01:45:36.790 --> 01:45:37.590]  Alright, so,
[01:45:37.950 --> 01:45:39.990]  you know, I mean, that's how he explains
[01:45:40.770 --> 01:45:41.570]  the battery.
[01:45:42.310 --> 01:45:44.110]  I mean, like, I think we all knew that shit.
[01:45:44.130 --> 01:45:45.070]  So I'm like, alright.
[01:45:45.710 --> 01:45:47.230]  Okay. Um.
[01:45:47.790 --> 01:45:49.870]  He wasn't quite as dramatic as I was.
[01:45:51.110 --> 01:45:51.910]  Alright, so,
[01:45:52.370 --> 01:45:53.610]  um, you know, but obviously,
[01:45:53.870 --> 01:45:55.870]  like, again, the Apple has,
[01:45:55.870 --> 01:45:57.910]  you know, done all the things that it can
[01:45:57.910 --> 01:45:59.510]  to try to help our batteries
[01:45:59.510 --> 01:46:01.270]  last longer, right?
[01:46:01.270 --> 01:46:02.550]  Because they hear the complaints.
[01:46:03.630 --> 01:46:05.390]  So, but there's certain things, like,
[01:46:05.390 --> 01:46:06.730]  you could put on your low,
[01:46:06.730 --> 01:46:09.450]  your low power setting, right?
[01:46:09.490 --> 01:46:11.350]  I've gotten pretty good at doing it.
[01:46:11.530 --> 01:46:12.690]  But shit still works.
[01:46:13.090 --> 01:46:15.010]  Like, there's certain shit that won't work anymore.
[01:46:15.890 --> 01:46:17.030]  Like, things will, like,
[01:46:17.030 --> 01:46:19.070]  things in the background will shut down when you're
[01:46:19.070 --> 01:46:21.390]  on low power. But like, if you get,
[01:46:21.390 --> 01:46:22.770]  like, Apple Pay still works.
[01:46:23.030 --> 01:46:24.850]  Like, I could still go in and
[01:46:24.850 --> 01:46:26.270]  buy a bag of jerky.
[01:46:29.510 --> 01:46:31.650]  You can still make calls. Your camera
[01:46:31.650 --> 01:46:33.150]  roll or your camera still works.
[01:46:33.910 --> 01:46:35.570]  Your health app is still operating.
[01:46:37.250 --> 01:46:40.030]  If you try to open up a game, it opens up slow as shit.
[01:46:47.970 --> 01:46:50.110]  I see you, Michael. Welcome back, buddy.
[01:46:51.590 --> 01:46:54.030]  It's good to see you. That was, that was by accident,
[01:46:54.270 --> 01:46:55.930]  man, just so you know, because you didn't see my
[01:46:55.930 --> 01:46:57.570]  text. You didn't answer me.
[01:46:57.790 --> 01:46:58.930]  All salty with me.
[01:47:00.030 --> 01:47:01.550]  Like, you think I'm sitting here bouncing
[01:47:01.550 --> 01:47:03.650]  anybody? Man, that's what my mods do.
[01:47:03.650 --> 01:47:05.170]  My mods...
[01:47:06.470 --> 01:47:07.570]  are my queens.
[01:47:07.810 --> 01:47:09.650]  So don't be talking shit about my mods.
[01:47:11.210 --> 01:47:11.930]  I got amazing
[01:47:11.930 --> 01:47:13.630]  mods. I love my mods.
[01:47:14.490 --> 01:47:15.930]  Keep everybody on their toes.
[01:47:16.670 --> 01:47:18.210]  And we let the trolls in.
[01:47:19.690 --> 01:47:21.430]  You know why? Cause I don't give a fuck.
[01:47:22.610 --> 01:47:23.530]  I don't care.
[01:47:25.010 --> 01:47:25.970]  Like, anybody
[01:47:25.970 --> 01:47:27.770]  who ever wants to come challenge me on
[01:47:27.770 --> 01:47:28.190]  anything,
[01:47:29.910 --> 01:47:31.610]  I got you. Come on in.
[01:47:31.610 --> 01:47:32.770]  Message me.
[01:47:33.490 --> 01:47:34.790]  I fear no one.
[01:47:36.070 --> 01:47:37.910]  Like, I will chat it out with anybody.
[01:47:38.110 --> 01:47:39.450]  Maybe you'll convince me of something,
[01:47:39.570 --> 01:47:41.510]  somebody out there. Anybody.
[01:47:42.770 --> 01:47:43.170]  You know?
[01:47:43.690 --> 01:47:45.610]  I'm open. I'm open source, yo.
[01:47:46.790 --> 01:47:47.590]  I love it.
[01:47:47.890 --> 01:47:49.570]  That's what I live for. I live for
[01:47:49.570 --> 01:47:51.410]  debate. Live for it.
[01:47:52.750 --> 01:47:53.890]  I challenge you
[01:47:53.890 --> 01:47:55.250]  to a duel, sir.
[01:47:55.510 --> 01:47:56.510]  I see you, Hollyberry.
[01:47:57.370 --> 01:47:59.390]  Alright, so, let's get serious here.
[01:47:59.390 --> 01:48:00.770]  This is serious business.
[01:48:02.130 --> 01:48:03.390]  Alright, so we've got...
[01:48:06.130 --> 01:48:07.590]  Alright, so now...
[01:48:07.590 --> 01:48:09.430]  Remember, battery power
[01:48:09.430 --> 01:48:11.730]  back in late July, August
[01:48:11.730 --> 01:48:13.310]  was his belief that
[01:48:13.310 --> 01:48:15.310]  the phone died at 10pm.
[01:48:15.870 --> 01:48:17.050]  Ooh, that's bad.
[01:48:17.670 --> 01:48:19.510]  No, I'm not slap happy. I'm in a pretty
[01:48:19.510 --> 01:48:21.470]  good mood. I think I'm being pretty
[01:48:21.470 --> 01:48:23.430]  funny. You think I'm
[01:48:23.430 --> 01:48:24.630]  slap happy, Pokey?
[01:48:26.290 --> 01:48:27.530]  I'm about to put you in
[01:48:27.530 --> 01:48:29.530]  timeout, Poke. And I love you.
[01:48:30.610 --> 01:48:32.190]  Alright, so...
[01:48:32.190 --> 01:48:32.830]  Alright, look.
[01:48:34.330 --> 01:48:35.870]  He ends up today.
[01:48:37.670 --> 01:48:38.190]  Today.
[01:48:39.010 --> 01:48:41.490]  His new time of death
[01:48:41.490 --> 01:48:43.810]  for the battery of Libby's phone
[01:48:43.810 --> 01:48:45.070]  is
[01:48:45.070 --> 01:48:47.530]  4.33am.
[01:48:50.970 --> 01:48:51.510]  Boop!
[01:48:52.370 --> 01:48:53.650]  So, the phone's
[01:48:53.650 --> 01:48:55.010]  alive the whole time.
[01:48:55.010 --> 01:48:57.070]  So now, as you can imagine
[01:48:58.650 --> 01:48:59.590]  what's my one
[01:48:59.590 --> 01:49:00.850]  question that I want answered?
[01:49:01.610 --> 01:49:02.530]  It's a quiz, kids.
[01:49:03.550 --> 01:49:04.390]  It's a quiz.
[01:49:05.670 --> 01:49:07.470]  I want to know
[01:49:07.470 --> 01:49:09.410]  how in the world that phone
[01:49:09.410 --> 01:49:11.150]  did not connect to a tower if it was
[01:49:11.150 --> 01:49:12.430]  sitting in that position
[01:49:14.430 --> 01:49:15.470]  for 11
[01:49:15.470 --> 01:49:16.910]  plus hours.
[01:49:17.390 --> 01:49:19.250]  When at 4.30, the phone's not
[01:49:19.250 --> 01:49:21.210]  dead. Now we have
[01:49:21.210 --> 01:49:23.070]  the phone is alive
[01:49:23.070 --> 01:49:25.230]  all night. You still get messages though, judge.
[01:49:26.090 --> 01:49:26.790]  I don't know.
[01:49:26.890 --> 01:49:29.470]  He doesn't say that. We didn't get the answer
[01:49:29.470 --> 01:49:31.310]  to whether it was on low power.
[01:49:31.950 --> 01:49:33.390]  If you have an iPhone
[01:49:33.390 --> 01:49:35.270]  you know you have to
[01:49:35.270 --> 01:49:36.150]  toggle that on.
[01:49:37.390 --> 01:49:38.730]  You have to toggle it on.
[01:49:39.170 --> 01:49:41.170]  I am in a good mood tonight. It's cause
[01:49:41.170 --> 01:49:42.730]  I ate an actual dinner.
[01:49:43.910 --> 01:49:45.170]  You guys know, feed Bob.
[01:49:46.030 --> 01:49:46.830]  I mean,
[01:49:46.990 --> 01:49:47.810]  Grinfermy knows.
[01:49:48.730 --> 01:49:50.890]  That feed Bob hashtag is a real thing.
[01:49:51.830 --> 01:49:53.910]  So, like, I had a nice
[01:49:53.910 --> 01:49:55.210]  dinner. Nice, like, real
[01:49:55.210 --> 01:49:56.890]  healthy, good, fresh
[01:49:58.370 --> 01:49:59.250]  cheese and
[01:49:59.250 --> 01:50:01.270]  chicken Caesar salad, man. It was fire.
[01:50:01.390 --> 01:50:02.010]  It was good.
[01:50:02.730 --> 01:50:04.890]  You guys are asking me the question. You guys are
[01:50:04.890 --> 01:50:06.970]  so brilliant. I love you guys. You're so
[01:50:06.970 --> 01:50:08.910]  brilliant. You're asking the same questions that
[01:50:08.910 --> 01:50:09.790]  I was asking.
[01:50:11.250 --> 01:50:12.750]  And you may be a little
[01:50:12.750 --> 01:50:14.690]  disappointed cause I will, like, Teresa
[01:50:14.690 --> 01:50:16.550]  F. Great questions.
[01:50:16.970 --> 01:50:17.930]  Great question.
[01:50:19.430 --> 01:50:20.470]  One that I
[01:50:20.470 --> 01:50:22.070]  didn't necessarily get an answer to.
[01:50:23.910 --> 01:50:25.410]  this leaves you wanting.
[01:50:25.870 --> 01:50:28.310]  I'm just gonna warn, I'm gonna forewarn you.
[01:50:29.210 --> 01:50:29.890]  I'm gonna
[01:50:29.890 --> 01:50:32.130]  forewarn you that this
[01:50:34.130 --> 01:50:34.270]  this
[01:50:34.270 --> 01:50:36.110]  witness is gonna leave you wanting on some
[01:50:36.110 --> 01:50:38.210]  things. Alright, so
[01:50:38.210 --> 01:50:40.450]  now we've got a new
[01:50:40.450 --> 01:50:41.990]  time for the battery life
[01:50:41.990 --> 01:50:43.870]  of the phone. The battery was
[01:50:43.870 --> 01:50:46.030]  alive and well on Libby's phone
[01:50:46.030 --> 01:50:47.730]  until 4.33 a.m.
[01:50:47.910 --> 01:50:49.430]  per the state's witness.
[01:50:50.510 --> 01:50:51.590]  Okay, so
[01:50:51.590 --> 01:50:53.470]  they then get into
[01:50:54.290 --> 01:50:55.770]  and Nick asked them, well
[01:50:55.770 --> 01:50:56.830]  how do you know that?
[01:50:57.630 --> 01:50:59.590]  He's like, well
[01:50:59.590 --> 01:51:01.310]  primarily because
[01:51:01.950 --> 01:51:04.030]  she received a bunch of SMS
[01:51:04.030 --> 01:51:05.910]  messages at 4.33.
[01:51:06.150 --> 01:51:07.210]  I'm like, wow.
[01:51:07.990 --> 01:51:09.370]  He really put it together.
[01:51:10.470 --> 01:51:12.090]  He really put it together.
[01:51:12.970 --> 01:51:13.830]  That's amazing.
[01:51:13.830 --> 01:51:15.830]  That is some expert
[01:51:15.830 --> 01:51:16.610]  analysis.
[01:51:20.570 --> 01:51:21.990]  I'm jesting
[01:51:21.990 --> 01:51:23.930]  but the reality is that he didn't
[01:51:23.930 --> 01:51:25.810]  glean that from
[01:51:25.810 --> 01:51:27.230]  the most recent extraction.
[01:51:27.770 --> 01:51:29.790]  He didn't glean that
[01:51:29.790 --> 01:51:31.830]  from the Knowledge C database
[01:51:31.830 --> 01:51:32.350]  stuff.
[01:51:34.310 --> 01:51:35.810]  I thought that that
[01:51:35.810 --> 01:51:37.810]  was the kind of shit that
[01:51:37.810 --> 01:51:39.730]  was in the Knowledge D database.
[01:51:39.730 --> 01:51:39.750]  The other thing he says
[01:51:39.750 --> 01:51:39.790]  is
[01:51:43.370 --> 01:51:44.890]  that you can get that
[01:51:44.890 --> 01:51:45.790]  exact information.
[01:51:46.430 --> 01:51:48.510]  Like second by second blow
[01:51:48.510 --> 01:51:50.870]  of where your battery power is.
[01:51:53.310 --> 01:51:54.330]  Guess not.
[01:51:55.430 --> 01:51:57.350]  Alright, so
[01:51:58.350 --> 01:52:00.530]  he then says
[01:52:01.430 --> 01:52:02.730]  the text came through
[01:52:02.730 --> 01:52:03.850]  and then he says
[01:52:04.590 --> 01:52:06.410]  this is an important question
[01:52:06.410 --> 01:52:08.510]  he asks. And I think it's going to be
[01:52:08.510 --> 01:52:10.430]  challenged by the defense expert.
[01:52:11.150 --> 01:52:12.190]  Nick asks the question,
[01:52:12.250 --> 01:52:14.310]  was the phone turned off
[01:52:14.310 --> 01:52:16.010]  in between
[01:52:16.010 --> 01:52:18.650]  the time of the last activity
[01:52:18.650 --> 01:52:19.510]  on the phone
[01:52:20.290 --> 01:52:22.570]  and 4.30 a.m.?
[01:52:22.570 --> 01:52:24.590]  Which we believe is at 5
[01:52:24.590 --> 01:52:26.070]  whatever it is, 29.39.
[01:52:26.890 --> 01:52:28.430]  I have so much shit
[01:52:28.430 --> 01:52:30.430]  in my head. I can't remember
[01:52:30.430 --> 01:52:32.350]  every specific number. But
[01:52:32.350 --> 01:52:34.070]  the last activity is like whatever,
[01:52:34.070 --> 01:52:35.790]  5.37, 5.39,
[01:52:36.010 --> 01:52:38.090]  somewhere in that time, I'm sure someone in the chat
[01:52:38.090 --> 01:52:40.070]  knows. So like in that period
[01:52:40.070 --> 01:52:42.130]  of time, he is saying
[01:52:42.130 --> 01:52:44.270]  that the phone was never
[01:52:44.270 --> 01:52:46.550]  powered down. He testifies
[01:52:46.550 --> 01:52:48.250]  to it. He says no.
[01:52:48.670 --> 01:52:49.850]  He's not turned off.
[01:52:50.770 --> 01:52:52.150]  So this is where my
[01:52:52.150 --> 01:52:54.070]  question of, well,
[01:52:54.350 --> 01:52:56.010]  did somebody put it in airplane
[01:52:56.010 --> 01:52:56.370]  mode?
[01:52:59.370 --> 01:52:59.970]  Now
[01:52:59.970 --> 01:53:02.130]  I have questions for you
[01:53:02.130 --> 01:53:03.330]  in my brilliant chat.
[01:53:04.570 --> 01:53:05.950]  My beautiful fan.
[01:53:06.250 --> 01:53:08.150]  All you beautiful humans. Does somebody
[01:53:08.150 --> 01:53:09.450]  in the chat know
[01:53:09.950 --> 01:53:11.830]  who is educated? I don't want
[01:53:11.830 --> 01:53:14.050]  guesses. I don't want speculative shit.
[01:53:14.590 --> 01:53:16.070]  Does anybody know
[01:53:16.070 --> 01:53:18.130]  what exactly
[01:53:18.130 --> 01:53:19.870]  happens with airplane
[01:53:19.870 --> 01:53:22.050]  mode? Like what
[01:53:22.050 --> 01:53:23.110]  does it shut down?
[01:53:24.690 --> 01:53:26.110]  Does airplane mode mean
[01:53:26.110 --> 01:53:27.970]  that you are no longer getting messages?
[01:53:30.410 --> 01:53:30.850]  Does
[01:53:30.850 --> 01:53:32.410]  airplane mode shut down
[01:53:32.410 --> 01:53:34.250]  your cellular? Like what does
[01:53:34.250 --> 01:53:34.910]  it do?
[01:53:36.190 --> 01:53:37.370]  What does it do?
[01:53:38.430 --> 01:53:40.130]  Tell me in the chat. I want to know.
[01:53:40.170 --> 01:53:41.610]  Because I honestly don't know.
[01:53:47.540 --> 01:53:48.420]  Alright, so
[01:53:49.460 --> 01:53:49.900]  uh
[01:53:50.920 --> 01:53:51.800]  he says
[01:53:51.800 --> 01:53:54.080]  and so Nick says, well, how do you know
[01:53:54.080 --> 01:53:55.520]  that? How do you know?
[01:53:56.840 --> 01:53:57.980]  And he says, well, because there was
[01:53:57.980 --> 01:53:59.900]  no information that the phone turned off
[01:53:59.900 --> 01:54:01.640]  in the papers.
[01:54:05.310 --> 01:54:06.470]  So he says
[01:54:06.470 --> 01:54:07.910]  there is no movement
[01:54:07.910 --> 01:54:10.310]  traced on the phone either. There is nothing.
[01:54:11.150 --> 01:54:12.150]  So I don't see
[01:54:12.150 --> 01:54:13.970]  any information about the phone being
[01:54:13.970 --> 01:54:16.470]  powered down and I don't see any movement
[01:54:17.150 --> 01:54:18.610]  of the phone
[01:54:20.150 --> 01:54:20.790]  after
[01:54:20.790 --> 01:54:21.950]  the last activity.
[01:54:22.990 --> 01:54:24.330]  The phone stops moving.
[01:54:27.050 --> 01:54:28.330]  Alright, so
[01:54:28.330 --> 01:54:30.310]  he then gets into some more
[01:54:30.310 --> 01:54:32.590]  timeline stuff. And he's talking about
[01:54:32.590 --> 01:54:34.330]  the phone stops moving
[01:54:35.510 --> 01:54:36.090]  at
[01:54:36.090 --> 01:54:37.470]  2.33 p.m.
[01:54:38.830 --> 01:54:39.950]  And then he said
[01:54:39.950 --> 01:54:42.350]  at 2.33 p.m. the screen lit up
[01:54:42.350 --> 01:54:43.850]  and he gets this from the Knowledge
[01:54:43.850 --> 01:54:46.310]  C database. So the screen lights up.
[01:54:48.850 --> 01:54:50.270]  There's some FaceTime calls
[01:54:50.270 --> 01:54:51.610]  that come in.
[01:54:53.270 --> 01:54:54.410]  Some phone calls are
[01:54:54.410 --> 01:54:54.950]  received.
[01:54:56.310 --> 01:54:58.550]  And some SMS messages come through.
[01:55:00.850 --> 01:55:01.810]  Which is...
[01:55:01.810 --> 01:55:02.550]  So SMS is
[01:55:03.530 --> 01:55:04.470]  through towers.
[01:55:05.490 --> 01:55:05.950]  And
[01:55:06.550 --> 01:55:08.550]  if you've got an iPhone
[01:55:09.470 --> 01:55:10.610]  people can go through
[01:55:10.610 --> 01:55:12.670]  the cellular network. We don't have to go through
[01:55:12.670 --> 01:55:13.210]  the tower.
[01:55:14.310 --> 01:55:16.230]  You have to be on Wi-Fi.
[01:55:16.850 --> 01:55:18.510]  But we don't have to ping off a tower
[01:55:18.510 --> 01:55:19.670]  to send a message.
[01:55:20.450 --> 01:55:22.410]  As long as we're both on Wi-Fi
[01:55:22.410 --> 01:55:24.530]  as long as we have a way to connect
[01:55:24.530 --> 01:55:26.010]  to our cellular network
[01:55:26.010 --> 01:55:27.830]  I messages come through.
[01:55:27.970 --> 01:55:28.570]  They're different.
[01:55:29.010 --> 01:55:31.590]  They're two different things.
[01:55:32.350 --> 01:55:34.050]  And they connect. You receive them
[01:55:34.050 --> 01:55:34.510]  differently.
[01:55:35.390 --> 01:55:36.250]  Okay, wait.
[01:55:38.070 --> 01:55:39.550]  No text or calls
[01:55:39.550 --> 01:55:39.990]  in or out.
[01:55:41.170 --> 01:55:42.970]  I don't know if this is Tracer.
[01:55:43.930 --> 01:55:46.570]  So no text or calls in or out
[01:55:47.370 --> 01:55:47.990]  doesn't
[01:55:47.990 --> 01:55:49.470]  connect the tower, but you can
[01:55:50.000 --> 01:55:51.970]  receive SMS if you're still connected
[01:55:51.970 --> 01:55:52.910]  via phone data.
[01:55:52.910 --> 01:55:54.430]  Is that Airplane Mode?
[01:55:57.330 --> 01:55:58.490]  Is that Airplane Mode?
[01:56:00.610 --> 01:56:00.830]  Oh,
[01:56:00.830 --> 01:56:02.690]  Law Nerd Amber. I worked at Verizon
[01:56:02.690 --> 01:56:05.010]  Airplane Mode turned off all
[01:56:05.010 --> 01:56:06.850]  antennas. So
[01:56:07.670 --> 01:56:08.210]  expand.
[01:56:08.610 --> 01:56:10.710]  What's that mean? Turns off all antennas
[01:56:10.710 --> 01:56:12.810]  that makes it sound like you can't get shit.
[01:56:14.170 --> 01:56:15.070]  Nothing comes in.
[01:56:15.150 --> 01:56:16.450]  That's what it sounds like.
[01:56:17.070 --> 01:56:18.810]  Let me know, Law. Amber
[01:56:19.650 --> 01:56:21.390]  finish that thought out for me.
[01:56:21.390 --> 01:56:23.310]  Alright, so
[01:56:23.310 --> 01:56:25.250]  we've got 233.
[01:56:25.250 --> 01:56:27.190]  Screen lights up. It's because the
[01:56:27.190 --> 01:56:29.850]  FaceTime calls are coming in.
[01:56:30.070 --> 01:56:31.530]  Phone calls are coming in. SMS
[01:56:31.530 --> 01:56:33.290]  are coming in. At
[01:56:33.290 --> 01:56:35.530]  4.06 p.m.
[01:56:36.930 --> 01:56:37.230]  the phone
[01:56:37.230 --> 01:56:39.450]  receives an SMS from Becky Paddy.
[01:56:41.370 --> 01:56:42.410]  And like
[01:56:42.410 --> 01:56:43.510]  I don't know why they
[01:56:43.510 --> 01:56:45.430]  highlighted this other than the fact that
[01:56:46.530 --> 01:56:47.490]  he just wanted
[01:56:47.490 --> 01:56:49.310]  it read out like
[01:56:49.310 --> 01:56:51.390]  anybody doubted that Becky Paddy
[01:56:51.390 --> 01:56:53.590]  would be like incredibly
[01:56:53.590 --> 01:56:55.170]  concerned about where her granddaughter
[01:56:55.170 --> 01:56:56.890]  was. It's like
[01:56:56.890 --> 01:56:59.350]  Becky's like, you need to call me
[01:57:00.010 --> 01:57:00.650]  now.
[01:57:01.810 --> 01:57:03.430]  At 4.06 p.m.
[01:57:08.400 --> 01:57:09.760]  Alright, so
[01:57:12.090 --> 01:57:14.750]  last activity as we know is that
[01:57:14.750 --> 01:57:17.070]  five whatever time, right?
[01:57:17.510 --> 01:57:18.630]  For some reason he doesn't
[01:57:18.630 --> 01:57:20.190]  give it during this thing.
[01:57:21.830 --> 01:57:22.850]  And so
[01:57:24.830 --> 01:57:25.690]  he says
[01:57:25.690 --> 01:57:26.850]  that, you know,
[01:57:27.710 --> 01:57:28.850]  until the 14th
[01:57:30.650 --> 01:57:31.570]  nothing comes in
[01:57:31.570 --> 01:57:33.170]  until 4.33 a.m.
[01:57:33.230 --> 01:57:34.690]  when there's a flood of messages.
[01:57:34.770 --> 01:57:36.570]  Now the defense says it's 15.
[01:57:37.090 --> 01:57:39.050]  For some reason
[01:57:39.050 --> 01:57:40.850]  Cecil just refuses
[01:57:42.050 --> 01:57:43.030]  to say it's
[01:57:43.030 --> 01:57:44.690]  the number 15. He's always like
[01:57:44.690 --> 01:57:46.910]  approximately, like it was a
[01:57:46.910 --> 01:57:48.730]  real battle back in July
[01:57:48.730 --> 01:57:50.270]  between Augé
[01:57:51.290 --> 01:57:52.330]  and Cecil
[01:57:52.330 --> 01:57:54.150]  to get him to say that it was
[01:57:54.150 --> 01:57:55.970]  15. It's just what
[01:57:55.970 --> 01:57:57.150]  he wouldn't do it.
[01:57:58.030 --> 01:57:59.930]  It was like this amazing battle
[01:57:59.930 --> 01:58:02.310]  of her trying to get him to just
[01:58:02.310 --> 01:58:03.970]  say it was 15.
[01:58:04.770 --> 01:58:06.590]  SMS message. She had to explain
[01:58:06.590 --> 01:58:08.190]  to him back then the difference
[01:58:08.190 --> 01:58:09.930]  between iMessage and SMS.
[01:58:10.570 --> 01:58:12.310]  As to like what, how they
[01:58:12.310 --> 01:58:14.090]  you know like what reads what
[01:58:14.090 --> 01:58:15.750]  what shows is what. Is like
[01:58:15.750 --> 01:58:18.090]  does it show on your phone
[01:58:18.090 --> 01:58:20.010]  is when it's sent or is it showing
[01:58:20.010 --> 01:58:21.790]  when it's like and which one is it?
[01:58:22.250 --> 01:58:24.250]  Like she was like she was schooling him on that
[01:58:24.250 --> 01:58:26.250]  shit. All right. My most updated
[01:58:26.250 --> 01:58:28.170]  knowledge is circuit 2021.
[01:58:28.570 --> 01:58:30.310]  I do not know about recent
[01:58:30.310 --> 01:58:32.550]  capabilities. I am confident in 2016
[01:58:32.550 --> 01:58:34.350]  no, received no
[01:58:34.350 --> 01:58:36.130]  send in airplane mode. All right. Thank you
[01:58:36.130 --> 01:58:38.030]  Amber. It's very helpful.
[01:58:38.090 --> 01:58:40.030]  Appreciate you. Okay.
[01:58:41.810 --> 01:58:42.290]  So
[01:58:42.290 --> 01:58:44.090]  so then
[01:58:45.090 --> 01:58:46.370]  Nick asked the
[01:58:47.010 --> 01:58:47.510]  question.
[01:58:48.950 --> 01:58:50.390]  I'm like, oh my
[01:58:50.990 --> 01:58:52.250]  God. Fucking
[01:58:52.250 --> 01:58:54.170]  I adjust in my seat. I'm like
[01:58:54.170 --> 01:58:56.230]  God damn it. He just asked the question. He
[01:58:56.950 --> 01:58:58.810]  asks. It's like why
[01:58:58.810 --> 01:59:00.390]  was there a lull?
[01:59:01.010 --> 01:59:02.150]  What caused
[01:59:02.150 --> 01:59:04.090]  the 11 hour lull?
[01:59:04.190 --> 01:59:06.350]  I'm like oh my God. I got my pen at the ready.
[01:59:06.530 --> 01:59:08.270]  I'm like I'm taking notes man.
[01:59:09.050 --> 01:59:10.710]  And it's like I don't know.
[01:59:11.590 --> 01:59:12.290]  No answer.
[01:59:12.450 --> 01:59:13.870]  I'm like no. Oh my God.
[01:59:13.870 --> 01:59:16.250]  What? He doesn't know.
[01:59:16.990 --> 01:59:18.270]  He doesn't know.
[01:59:18.510 --> 01:59:19.170]  He's got no
[01:59:19.870 --> 01:59:20.310]  explanation.
[01:59:21.510 --> 01:59:23.750]  So as we sit here today
[01:59:23.750 --> 01:59:25.930]  on day five of the
[01:59:25.930 --> 01:59:27.090]  Richard Allen trial
[01:59:27.590 --> 01:59:29.870]  and we've got the mystery 15
[01:59:30.650 --> 01:59:32.050]  SMS messages
[01:59:32.050 --> 01:59:33.330]  that flood in.
[01:59:35.710 --> 01:59:37.070]  He doesn't know why.
[01:59:37.630 --> 01:59:39.830]  Not only does he not know.
[01:59:40.630 --> 01:59:42.110]  He doesn't even have
[01:59:43.470 --> 01:59:44.150]  a
[01:59:44.150 --> 01:59:46.110]  forensic pathologist type
[01:59:47.150 --> 01:59:48.510]  speculative opinion
[01:59:48.510 --> 01:59:50.110]  like the
[01:59:51.370 --> 01:59:52.330]  like the whatever
[01:59:52.330 --> 01:59:53.450]  the little thing.
[01:59:54.590 --> 01:59:56.470]  The blade. The blade thing.
[01:59:56.850 --> 01:59:57.810]  The box cutter.
[01:59:58.270 --> 01:59:59.230]  Like he's got nothing.
[01:59:59.790 --> 02:00:01.510]  He puts nothing out there.
[02:00:02.750 --> 02:00:04.370]  I was like oh my God.
[02:00:04.590 --> 02:00:06.510]  I died a little bit inside.
[02:00:07.650 --> 02:00:08.550]  When that happened.
[02:00:09.170 --> 02:00:10.370]  I'm like oh my God.
[02:00:11.810 --> 02:00:13.470]  I'm like this guy.
[02:00:14.770 --> 02:00:15.410]  So
[02:00:15.410 --> 02:00:16.650]  we sit there.
[02:00:17.730 --> 02:00:19.710]  And my heart's crushed.
[02:00:19.910 --> 02:00:20.990]  We have no idea.
[02:00:21.350 --> 02:00:22.690]  There's no real answer.
[02:00:24.170 --> 02:00:25.630]  I think it's a really
[02:00:27.350 --> 02:00:27.670]  really
[02:00:27.990 --> 02:00:29.290]  big problem for the state.
[02:00:30.970 --> 02:00:32.930]  I just think it is.
[02:00:34.890 --> 02:00:35.570]  You know
[02:00:35.570 --> 02:00:37.630]  if they're going to put an expert
[02:00:37.630 --> 02:00:39.770]  on that is going to challenge
[02:00:39.770 --> 02:00:41.910]  the phone being turned off
[02:00:41.910 --> 02:00:42.950]  or powered off.
[02:00:43.330 --> 02:00:45.690]  If they have somebody that's just a little bit
[02:00:45.690 --> 02:00:46.850]  more experienced
[02:00:47.750 --> 02:00:50.230]  with getting into
[02:00:50.230 --> 02:00:51.590]  the knowledge
[02:00:51.590 --> 02:00:53.110]  database stuff
[02:00:53.770 --> 02:00:56.030]  like maybe encrypted files
[02:00:56.030 --> 02:00:57.090]  like the encrypted
[02:00:57.490 --> 02:00:59.870]  because when we get to Ajay's thing
[02:00:59.870 --> 02:01:01.710]  I ain't saying
[02:01:01.710 --> 02:01:02.970]  shit but I'm just saying
[02:01:03.490 --> 02:01:04.890]  I smell a trap
[02:01:04.890 --> 02:01:06.930]  that was set
[02:01:06.930 --> 02:01:08.790]  in her cross
[02:01:08.790 --> 02:01:11.030]  and I'll tell you when we get to it.
[02:01:11.310 --> 02:01:13.090]  I know a trap when I see it
[02:01:13.910 --> 02:01:15.230]  by a defense attorney
[02:01:15.230 --> 02:01:16.650]  by a good defense attorney.
[02:01:18.590 --> 02:01:19.030]  You know
[02:01:19.030 --> 02:01:21.050]  and you know what traps are right?
[02:01:21.170 --> 02:01:22.050]  I mean traps
[02:01:22.870 --> 02:01:25.090]  you wait to bring them.
[02:01:26.650 --> 02:01:27.190]  Like you're
[02:01:27.190 --> 02:01:29.090]  setting a trap for some shit to happen
[02:01:29.090 --> 02:01:30.470]  down the road.
[02:01:32.570 --> 02:01:35.250]  And I have a very strong sense
[02:01:35.250 --> 02:01:37.450]  of based on this one line
[02:01:37.450 --> 02:01:38.290]  of questioning
[02:01:38.290 --> 02:01:41.210]  that she fucking locked him in on
[02:01:41.210 --> 02:01:42.690]  on the record
[02:01:45.270 --> 02:01:46.570]  asked him if he
[02:01:46.570 --> 02:01:49.210]  we're getting close to it.
[02:01:49.210 --> 02:01:49.630]  Alright.
[02:01:52.510 --> 02:01:52.730]  Okay.
[02:01:53.670 --> 02:01:54.350]  So
[02:01:55.950 --> 02:01:56.630]  Okay.
[02:01:56.690 --> 02:01:58.590]  So then again the 433
[02:01:58.590 --> 02:02:00.950]  last activity what happens is I don't know
[02:02:00.950 --> 02:02:02.810]  3 or 6 p.m.
[02:02:04.290 --> 02:02:04.930]  lost power.
[02:02:04.930 --> 02:02:08.050]  So then he's jumping ahead to
[02:02:10.770 --> 02:02:11.810]  like after
[02:02:12.790 --> 02:02:14.370]  Bonner gets the phone.
[02:02:14.590 --> 02:02:16.490]  Like on the 15th.
[02:02:16.610 --> 02:02:18.710]  So he's like the next time the phone
[02:02:18.710 --> 02:02:20.710]  is active after 433 he's like
[02:02:20.710 --> 02:02:22.870]  I think that's when the battery finally dies.
[02:02:23.430 --> 02:02:24.750]  The next time it's active is
[02:02:24.750 --> 02:02:25.950]  3 or 6 p.m.
[02:02:27.210 --> 02:02:28.230]  On that day
[02:02:28.230 --> 02:02:29.790]  I forgot that
[02:02:30.450 --> 02:02:32.310]  on the 14th I think
[02:02:32.310 --> 02:02:32.790]  I think it was like
[02:02:32.790 --> 02:02:33.610]  Becky, Patty or Kelsey.
[02:02:33.670 --> 02:02:35.550]  One of the two of them brought the phone over there.
[02:02:37.190 --> 02:02:37.670]  And
[02:02:39.890 --> 02:02:40.850]  he's like
[02:02:41.610 --> 02:02:43.230]  it was charged.
[02:02:44.410 --> 02:02:45.490]  Like Bonner charged the phone
[02:02:45.490 --> 02:02:46.890]  and fired it back up.
[02:02:47.950 --> 02:02:48.990]  So that's it.
[02:02:50.850 --> 02:02:51.270]  And then
[02:02:51.270 --> 02:02:52.510]  let's see.
[02:02:54.090 --> 02:02:54.770]  So then when
[02:02:54.770 --> 02:02:56.330]  so Nick's like I'm done.
[02:02:56.550 --> 02:02:58.510]  We have our afternoon break. He comes back.
[02:02:58.510 --> 02:03:00.250]  He's like I'm just kidding.
[02:03:00.510 --> 02:03:02.350]  I want to clarify a few more things.
[02:03:02.850 --> 02:03:04.290]  A couple things I forgot to ask.
[02:03:04.430 --> 02:03:05.950]  So I was like cool. Go ahead.
[02:03:06.710 --> 02:03:08.950]  It's like 14-07-10.
[02:03:09.110 --> 02:03:10.510]  He's like what...
[02:03:14.030 --> 02:03:14.470]  Wow.
[02:03:14.690 --> 02:03:16.590]  Oh, he's like what do the asterisks mean?
[02:03:19.250 --> 02:03:20.390]  And that's referring
[02:03:20.390 --> 02:03:22.370]  to his report that he had up on the screen.
[02:03:22.410 --> 02:03:24.290]  So he had some asterisks.
[02:03:24.610 --> 02:03:26.250]  And in this particular section
[02:03:26.250 --> 02:03:28.270]  he said the 14 which is
[02:03:28.270 --> 02:03:30.030]  14-07-10 picture.
[02:03:30.150 --> 02:03:31.530]  He had an asterisk.
[02:03:31.990 --> 02:03:34.250]  And he means that I didn't find that
[02:03:34.250 --> 02:03:34.490]  pic
[02:03:35.650 --> 02:03:37.090]  on the device.
[02:03:38.650 --> 02:03:40.190]  Of Abby walking on the bridge
[02:03:40.190 --> 02:03:41.530]  alone. So this becomes a
[02:03:41.530 --> 02:03:43.250]  very mysterious picture.
[02:03:43.990 --> 02:03:45.970]  This missing picture of Abby.
[02:03:46.850 --> 02:03:48.170]  Which I think you guys have probably
[02:03:48.170 --> 02:03:49.310]  all seen it.
[02:03:49.670 --> 02:03:51.970]  It's the picture with Abby just out on the high
[02:03:51.970 --> 02:03:53.330]  bridge alone.
[02:03:54.090 --> 02:03:56.110]  Just standing there. Looking down.
[02:03:56.110 --> 02:03:58.590]  Walking, right? We've all seen it.
[02:03:58.810 --> 02:03:59.810]  So apparently
[02:03:59.810 --> 02:04:02.230]  he does not find that
[02:04:02.230 --> 02:04:04.290]  pic on the
[02:04:04.290 --> 02:04:05.010]  device.
[02:04:07.950 --> 02:04:09.430]  It's super mysterious.
[02:04:11.810 --> 02:04:14.030]  Because it exists in the world.
[02:04:15.470 --> 02:04:17.870]  I mean I suppose
[02:04:17.870 --> 02:04:19.670]  somebody could have
[02:04:19.670 --> 02:04:21.690]  like you can screen grab it, right?
[02:04:21.730 --> 02:04:23.710]  Like if you send it out to your homies
[02:04:23.710 --> 02:04:27.750]  or you put it on your story and your friend's like oh that's a
[02:04:27.750 --> 02:04:29.750]  group. Maybe that's how it's out there.
[02:04:31.550 --> 02:04:33.830]  But it's strange that it's not
[02:04:34.990 --> 02:04:36.110]  in the phone
[02:04:36.110 --> 02:04:36.930]  anywhere.
[02:04:38.730 --> 02:04:40.230]  When all the rest are.
[02:04:40.730 --> 02:04:41.610]  That's what makes it
[02:04:41.610 --> 02:04:42.310]  mysterious.
[02:04:44.430 --> 02:04:45.670]  One of the high, just the
[02:04:45.670 --> 02:04:47.050]  high bridge. That's still there.
[02:04:47.170 --> 02:04:49.050]  We'll get to it. Like Ogier
[02:04:49.530 --> 02:04:50.690]  gets into it.
[02:04:51.310 --> 02:04:53.870]  So then
[02:04:53.870 --> 02:04:55.630]  Nick tries to get in front of this.
[02:04:55.630 --> 02:04:57.390]  He's like well
[02:04:57.390 --> 02:04:59.550]  where did you find that pic?
[02:05:00.490 --> 02:05:01.730]  Like if you didn't find
[02:05:01.730 --> 02:05:03.570]  it on the device, how do we have it in evidence?
[02:05:03.710 --> 02:05:05.730]  He's like oh I
[02:05:05.730 --> 02:05:06.830]  found it on the internet.
[02:05:09.090 --> 02:05:09.650]  So
[02:05:09.650 --> 02:05:11.730]  exhibit 226, the picture
[02:05:11.730 --> 02:05:13.950]  of Abby walking on the high bridge
[02:05:13.950 --> 02:05:15.570]  is not actually
[02:05:15.570 --> 02:05:17.790]  taken from Libby's device. It is taken
[02:05:18.450 --> 02:05:19.570]  from somewhere
[02:05:19.570 --> 02:05:20.290]  on the web.
[02:05:21.290 --> 02:05:22.570]  So there you go.
[02:05:24.290 --> 02:05:25.250]  Alright, so
[02:05:25.790 --> 02:05:26.710]  Nick also
[02:05:26.710 --> 02:05:28.310]  asks about the measurement.
[02:05:28.330 --> 02:05:29.990]  He's like alright, so I forgot to ask you about
[02:05:31.330 --> 02:05:32.730]  this thing with the flights.
[02:05:32.770 --> 02:05:34.390]  Remember when I asked you originally
[02:05:34.390 --> 02:05:36.690]  if you ever figured out what
[02:05:36.690 --> 02:05:38.550]  one flight equated to?
[02:05:39.290 --> 02:05:40.630]  He's like oh yeah, I remember.
[02:05:40.770 --> 02:05:42.710]  He's like yeah, I figured
[02:05:42.710 --> 02:05:44.890]  it out eventually. I Googled it
[02:05:44.890 --> 02:05:45.430]  or something.
[02:05:46.510 --> 02:05:48.570]  The elevation changed. So a flight
[02:05:51.030 --> 02:05:51.590]  equals
[02:05:53.550 --> 02:05:54.470]  16 steps.
[02:05:54.510 --> 02:05:56.610]  16 steps equals 20 feet.
[02:05:58.390 --> 02:05:58.990]  Or 10 feet.
[02:05:59.010 --> 02:06:00.690]  I'm sorry. So there were a total
[02:06:00.690 --> 02:06:02.750]  of 32 steps. So the elevation change
[02:06:02.750 --> 02:06:04.090]  for the girls was 20 feet.
[02:06:08.570 --> 02:06:09.690]  And then
[02:06:13.220 --> 02:06:14.720]  Nick was basically done.
[02:06:16.780 --> 02:06:17.500]  Alright, so then
[02:06:17.500 --> 02:06:18.760]  we get the cross.
[02:06:20.380 --> 02:06:21.700]  Aje gets up there.
[02:06:23.600 --> 02:06:25.160]  And she loves
[02:06:25.160 --> 02:06:27.440]  like I said, she loves feeding
[02:06:27.440 --> 02:06:29.600]  Cecil lunch. It's like her favorite
[02:06:29.600 --> 02:06:31.420]  pastime. She loves
[02:06:31.420 --> 02:06:33.600]  to feed him lunch. Here, I'm gonna feed you your lunch
[02:06:33.600 --> 02:06:34.360]  Chris.
[02:06:35.700 --> 02:06:37.240]  So she digs in with
[02:06:37.240 --> 02:06:38.840]  226, the picture.
[02:06:39.560 --> 02:06:41.780]  She's like so
[02:06:41.780 --> 02:06:43.580]  the state's exhibit 226
[02:06:43.580 --> 02:06:45.200]  you found that
[02:06:45.200 --> 02:06:46.260]  on the internet.
[02:06:48.360 --> 02:06:49.700]  She's like yeah.
[02:06:50.300 --> 02:06:51.700]  She says okay, well
[02:06:51.700 --> 02:06:53.380]  do you know where? He's like I don't know.
[02:06:53.420 --> 02:06:55.360]  Like I googled it or something. Google?
[02:06:56.700 --> 02:06:57.600]  It's like what did you Google?
[02:06:57.700 --> 02:06:59.640]  He's like I don't know. Like picture of Abby
[02:06:59.640 --> 02:07:01.220]  on the bridge or something. I don't know.
[02:07:01.220 --> 02:07:03.560]  He didn't have an answer. So she walks over
[02:07:03.560 --> 02:07:05.840]  to the table where they're storing all the evidence.
[02:07:06.260 --> 02:07:07.900]  You know, the exhibits that have been admitted.
[02:07:08.680 --> 02:07:09.620]  She comes back
[02:07:09.620 --> 02:07:11.360]  and she's like okay.
[02:07:11.700 --> 02:07:13.660]  She's like well you have like you're acting
[02:07:14.800 --> 02:07:15.680]  here as
[02:07:15.680 --> 02:07:17.520]  if this thing is time stamped
[02:07:17.520 --> 02:07:19.680]  and she holds up the picture that he
[02:07:19.680 --> 02:07:21.560]  got from the internet and he says like
[02:07:21.560 --> 02:07:24.120]  so this is clearly from somebody else's Snapchat
[02:07:25.000 --> 02:07:25.520]  that
[02:07:25.520 --> 02:07:27.680]  took a screen grab of Abby's
[02:07:28.200 --> 02:07:29.900]  post when she posted it to her
[02:07:29.900 --> 02:07:31.720]  story. And like on
[02:07:31.720 --> 02:07:33.660]  this thing it says seven hours later.
[02:07:34.080 --> 02:07:35.720]  Right? She's like
[02:07:35.720 --> 02:07:37.240]  how are you saying
[02:07:37.240 --> 02:07:39.720]  how are you sitting here? How have you ever
[02:07:39.720 --> 02:07:41.660]  sat here and said if you
[02:07:41.660 --> 02:07:43.360]  didn't get it off the device
[02:07:44.860 --> 02:07:45.840]  that that picture
[02:07:45.840 --> 02:07:47.600]  was taken at 2.07 p.m.
[02:07:47.600 --> 02:07:49.460]  Like look
[02:07:49.460 --> 02:07:51.760]  like seven hours from
[02:07:51.760 --> 02:07:53.860]  where? Like where did you get that information?
[02:07:55.440 --> 02:07:55.680]  Because
[02:07:55.680 --> 02:07:57.600]  remember like we've always been told
[02:07:57.600 --> 02:07:59.540]  that the picture of Abby on the bridge is at
[02:07:59.540 --> 02:08:01.780]  2.07 p.m. And this
[02:08:01.780 --> 02:08:03.720]  dude didn't even find it on the device. There's
[02:08:03.720 --> 02:08:05.680]  no... we don't have the metadata for
[02:08:05.680 --> 02:08:07.680]  it. So now we come to
[02:08:07.680 --> 02:08:09.480]  find out that he pulled it off the internet
[02:08:09.480 --> 02:08:11.720]  from somebody else who had
[02:08:11.720 --> 02:08:14.100]  screenshot the snap and then
[02:08:15.100 --> 02:08:15.580]  there's
[02:08:15.580 --> 02:08:17.540]  what he considers to be a time stamp
[02:08:17.540 --> 02:08:19.580]  is the time stamp says that it's
[02:08:20.940 --> 02:08:21.460]  uh
[02:08:23.020 --> 02:08:23.540]  it's
[02:08:23.540 --> 02:08:25.120]  seven hours later.
[02:08:27.340 --> 02:08:27.620]  Seven
[02:08:27.620 --> 02:08:28.560]  hours from what?
[02:08:31.320 --> 02:08:32.360]  Alright, so
[02:08:32.360 --> 02:08:33.400]  he says he
[02:08:33.400 --> 02:08:35.480]  has no idea who put
[02:08:35.480 --> 02:08:36.760]  the time on there.
[02:08:37.400 --> 02:08:39.440]  And he says like I don't... seven hours
[02:08:39.440 --> 02:08:41.260]  from what? He's like I have no idea.
[02:08:42.480 --> 02:08:43.600]  He's like I don't know when
[02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:45.860]  seven hours was. So we've
[02:08:48.080 --> 02:08:49.600]  we've got the picture
[02:08:50.320 --> 02:08:51.140]  taken at
[02:08:51.140 --> 02:08:52.220]  1.40
[02:08:54.640 --> 02:08:55.800]  and these were
[02:08:55.800 --> 02:08:57.500]  all contained in the snapchat
[02:08:57.500 --> 02:08:59.540]  cache. Alright, so you've got the
[02:08:59.540 --> 02:09:01.120]  1.40 picture that Abby
[02:09:01.120 --> 02:09:02.720]  or that Libby took
[02:09:04.140 --> 02:09:05.600]  before... right before the picture
[02:09:05.600 --> 02:09:07.680]  she took of her selfie
[02:09:07.680 --> 02:09:09.860]  with Abby in the background. So that one
[02:09:09.860 --> 02:09:11.580]  so that's found in the
[02:09:11.580 --> 02:09:15.420]  snapchat cache. At 1.41
[02:09:15.420 --> 02:09:17.620]  the selfie with Abby in the background
[02:09:17.620 --> 02:09:19.600]  that picture is taken
[02:09:19.600 --> 02:09:20.900]  and it is found
[02:09:21.520 --> 02:09:23.160]  in the snapchat cache.
[02:09:23.820 --> 02:09:24.700]  1.43
[02:09:25.580 --> 02:09:27.660]  we get the first
[02:09:27.660 --> 02:09:29.440]  picture of the Monon High Bridge.
[02:09:30.940 --> 02:09:31.700]  That picture
[02:09:31.700 --> 02:09:33.720]  is found in the snapchat cache.
[02:09:34.700 --> 02:09:35.820]  At 2.05
[02:09:35.820 --> 02:09:36.500]  p.m.
[02:09:37.540 --> 02:09:38.660]  we get the picture
[02:09:39.540 --> 02:09:40.180]  of
[02:09:40.180 --> 02:09:42.640]  I forget what it is.
[02:09:42.880 --> 02:09:44.500]  I forget. But
[02:09:44.500 --> 02:09:46.280]  another one of the bridge.
[02:09:47.180 --> 02:09:48.460]  And then at 2.07
[02:09:48.460 --> 02:09:50.180]  that one is found
[02:09:51.100 --> 02:09:52.580]  in the snapchat
[02:09:52.580 --> 02:09:54.900]  cache. And then 2.07
[02:09:56.220 --> 02:09:56.860]  they
[02:09:56.860 --> 02:09:59.060]  did not find on the snapchat
[02:09:59.060 --> 02:10:00.740]  cache. And it's not
[02:10:00.740 --> 02:10:01.640]  in the camera roll.
[02:10:03.820 --> 02:10:04.900]  It's weird.
[02:10:05.060 --> 02:10:06.180]  Like, where did it go?
[02:10:07.040 --> 02:10:08.240]  So Ajay
[02:10:08.240 --> 02:10:10.580]  asks the question, which is a
[02:10:10.580 --> 02:10:11.460]  great question.
[02:10:11.840 --> 02:10:14.180]  Great question. Somebody
[02:10:14.180 --> 02:10:15.100]  took that picture.
[02:10:16.160 --> 02:10:17.920]  And it would stand to reason,
[02:10:18.020 --> 02:10:19.820]  so you have to follow her logic here,
[02:10:20.300 --> 02:10:22.100]  if everything that preceded it
[02:10:22.100 --> 02:10:24.060]  in the minutes before it, all the pictures
[02:10:24.060 --> 02:10:26.320]  that preceded it, every single
[02:10:26.320 --> 02:10:28.440]  that she took through the snapchat
[02:10:28.440 --> 02:10:30.580]  app, if all of those
[02:10:30.580 --> 02:10:31.780]  were in the cache
[02:10:31.780 --> 02:10:33.500]  of the snapchat cache
[02:10:33.500 --> 02:10:33.700]  like.
[02:10:34.760 --> 02:10:37.180]  And this last picture, 2.07,
[02:10:37.320 --> 02:10:39.480]  is not in there or in the camera
[02:10:39.480 --> 02:10:39.800]  roll.
[02:10:41.760 --> 02:10:43.040]  She asks the question,
[02:10:43.940 --> 02:10:45.100]  isn't it possible
[02:10:45.100 --> 02:10:47.920]  that someone else
[02:10:47.920 --> 02:10:49.760]  posted that picture
[02:10:51.160 --> 02:10:54.000]  on Libby's account from a different
[02:10:54.000 --> 02:10:54.620]  device?
[02:11:00.720 --> 02:11:02.080]  Not only is it
[02:11:02.080 --> 02:11:02.900]  possible,
[02:11:04.380 --> 02:11:05.280]  to me,
[02:11:05.280 --> 02:11:07.260]  it seems likely,
[02:11:09.600 --> 02:11:11.620]  which opens up a whole
[02:11:11.620 --> 02:11:12.740]  another can of worms.
[02:11:19.740 --> 02:11:20.420]  Alright, what time
[02:11:20.420 --> 02:11:20.980]  is it, guys?
[02:11:22.320 --> 02:11:24.140]  Oh my god, it's after
[02:11:24.140 --> 02:11:24.660]  midnight.
[02:11:27.540 --> 02:11:28.700]  You guys...
[02:11:31.000 --> 02:11:32.300]  I love you so,
[02:11:32.720 --> 02:11:33.600]  though. Alright.
[02:11:34.640 --> 02:11:36.380]  Okay, we've got...
[02:11:36.380 --> 02:11:38.160]  Remember, tomorrow I'm the first one
[02:11:38.160 --> 02:11:39.800]  doing this. I'm beating
[02:11:39.800 --> 02:11:42.200]  Andrew, I'm beating Lee, I'm beating them to the punch
[02:11:42.200 --> 02:11:45.260]  tomorrow. I'm just jumping on, I'm going
[02:11:45.260 --> 02:11:46.260]  knee deep
[02:11:46.260 --> 02:11:47.180]  into the muck.
[02:11:48.840 --> 02:11:49.960]  Oh, I
[02:11:49.960 --> 02:11:52.020]  think I know who's testifying
[02:11:52.020 --> 02:11:52.520]  tomorrow.
[02:11:54.140 --> 02:11:55.920]  I got a scoop over here.
[02:11:59.010 --> 02:11:59.810]  I think it's going to be
[02:11:59.810 --> 02:12:01.710]  a big law enforcement day. That's your
[02:12:01.710 --> 02:12:03.710]  hint. Big
[02:12:03.710 --> 02:12:05.970]  law enforcement day
[02:12:05.970 --> 02:12:07.350]  of testimony tomorrow.
[02:12:08.110 --> 02:12:10.090]  Alright, so,
[02:12:11.590 --> 02:12:12.710]  we've got
[02:12:15.050 --> 02:12:16.970]  her asking that great question,
[02:12:17.270 --> 02:12:19.290]  and then she starts getting into the phone data
[02:12:19.290 --> 02:12:21.210]  is used because she
[02:12:21.210 --> 02:12:23.290]  asked the question, like, in these
[02:12:23.290 --> 02:12:24.310]  kinds of cases,
[02:12:25.270 --> 02:12:27.210]  Mr. Cecil, Sergeant,
[02:12:27.250 --> 02:12:29.110]  First Sergeant Cecil, we use
[02:12:29.110 --> 02:12:31.250]  phone data because it's
[02:12:31.250 --> 02:12:32.970]  reliable, right?
[02:12:33.810 --> 02:12:35.450]  Yeah. Apple Health
[02:12:36.090 --> 02:12:36.610]  is reliable.
[02:12:37.430 --> 02:12:39.650]  That data is reliable. Knowledge C
[02:12:39.650 --> 02:12:41.550]  is reliable, right?
[02:12:42.950 --> 02:12:43.610]  And then she
[02:12:43.610 --> 02:12:45.290]  asks him, okay, he says, yes,
[02:12:45.390 --> 02:12:47.310]  that's all reliable. She says, okay,
[02:12:47.630 --> 02:12:49.630]  now, specifically with the
[02:12:49.630 --> 02:12:51.510]  so she, this is
[02:12:51.510 --> 02:12:52.150]  the trap.
[02:12:54.350 --> 02:12:55.710]  This is where she starts laying
[02:12:55.710 --> 02:12:57.410]  the trap. So she asks
[02:12:57.410 --> 02:12:59.390]  those questions. Those are all
[02:12:59.390 --> 02:13:01.470]  like when a lawyer, you hear
[02:13:01.470 --> 02:13:03.690]  a lawyer asking those types of questions
[02:13:03.690 --> 02:13:05.990]  where they're trying to get confirmation
[02:13:05.990 --> 02:13:07.850]  of the witness that this
[02:13:07.850 --> 02:13:10.050]  is some shit we can trust, right?
[02:13:11.490 --> 02:13:14.710]  We can trust this data, like
[02:13:14.710 --> 02:13:15.410]  rock solid.
[02:13:16.230 --> 02:13:17.890]  Yeah? Yeah.
[02:13:18.690 --> 02:13:20.050]  Yeah, we can trust it.
[02:13:20.810 --> 02:13:21.890]  So she says, okay.
[02:13:23.170 --> 02:13:23.810]  But let's
[02:13:23.810 --> 02:13:25.610]  talk specifically about Knowledge C.
[02:13:26.310 --> 02:13:27.470]  Right? Knowledge C.
[02:13:28.570 --> 02:13:29.430]  All right.
[02:13:29.870 --> 02:13:32.030]  Tell me a little bit about
[02:13:32.030 --> 02:13:34.290]  the Knowledge C
[02:13:34.290 --> 02:13:35.670]  encrypted
[02:13:35.670 --> 02:13:36.170]  cache.
[02:13:38.570 --> 02:13:40.070]  And Cecil sits there like
[02:13:43.660 --> 02:13:45.020]  he says,
[02:13:45.800 --> 02:13:47.740]  I don't understand the question.
[02:13:48.680 --> 02:13:49.360]  I say, okay.
[02:13:50.200 --> 02:13:51.960]  All right. So
[02:13:51.960 --> 02:13:53.620]  tell me about
[02:13:53.620 --> 02:13:55.920]  the Knowledge C
[02:13:56.780 --> 02:13:57.660]  encrypted
[02:13:57.660 --> 02:13:58.380]  cache.
[02:13:59.660 --> 02:14:00.700]  He's like,
[02:14:00.700 --> 02:14:01.140]  I
[02:14:03.200 --> 02:14:04.360]  I don't, what?
[02:14:04.720 --> 02:14:06.820]  I've never heard of that. That doesn't exist.
[02:14:06.940 --> 02:14:08.280]  He's like, that's not something I've heard of.
[02:14:08.400 --> 02:14:10.200]  She's like, oh, all right.
[02:14:10.400 --> 02:14:11.880]  I've never heard of it, he says.
[02:14:12.420 --> 02:14:13.040]  Direct quote.
[02:14:15.420 --> 02:14:15.880]  So
[02:14:16.860 --> 02:14:17.900]  she's like, okay.
[02:14:18.140 --> 02:14:19.280]  She's like, let's move on.
[02:14:20.060 --> 02:14:22.320]  So remember that, though. So
[02:14:22.320 --> 02:14:24.700]  Celebrite allows for
[02:14:25.920 --> 02:14:26.380]  physical
[02:14:26.380 --> 02:14:27.160]  extraction.
[02:14:30.940 --> 02:14:31.420]  Logical.
[02:14:32.080 --> 02:14:32.560]  Okay.
[02:14:33.240 --> 02:14:34.600]  And she called it
[02:14:34.600 --> 02:14:36.260]  like a logic. So there's different
[02:14:36.260 --> 02:14:38.020]  types of extraction. So physical extraction
[02:14:38.020 --> 02:14:40.040]  of the phone. So the logical, which is
[02:14:40.040 --> 02:14:42.020]  what method one was,
[02:14:43.400 --> 02:14:44.160]  they consider that.
[02:14:44.200 --> 02:14:45.800]  She says it's like, she describes it as
[02:14:45.800 --> 02:14:47.580]  over the hood. It's kind of like you
[02:14:47.580 --> 02:14:49.860]  get your phone, you look at it,
[02:14:50.000 --> 02:14:51.140]  the shit that you're seeing,
[02:14:52.100 --> 02:14:53.200]  that's what it extracts.
[02:14:53.960 --> 02:14:55.160]  You're not getting the
[02:14:55.160 --> 02:14:57.100]  you're not getting the deep deep.
[02:14:57.260 --> 02:14:58.920]  You're not getting the down low.
[02:14:59.220 --> 02:15:00.740]  You're not getting the dirty down there.
[02:15:00.980 --> 02:15:02.860]  It's just like the shit that you see.
[02:15:03.300 --> 02:15:04.840]  That's method one extraction.
[02:15:05.480 --> 02:15:07.000]  Which is essentially a logical.
[02:15:07.900 --> 02:15:09.140]  Okay, so there's advanced
[02:15:09.140 --> 02:15:10.580]  logical, right?
[02:15:11.500 --> 02:15:13.080]  And she says that'll give you
[02:15:13.080 --> 02:15:14.560]  that gives you more.
[02:15:15.160 --> 02:15:16.580]  Give you your iPhone backup.
[02:15:17.160 --> 02:15:19.020]  Give you full file extractions.
[02:15:19.100 --> 02:15:20.540]  Give you knowledge C.
[02:15:20.980 --> 02:15:23.160]  Give you power log system files.
[02:15:23.840 --> 02:15:25.520]  It's really you're under the hood
[02:15:25.520 --> 02:15:26.120]  with that.
[02:15:26.780 --> 02:15:29.280]  You're in the know. You're getting down
[02:15:29.280 --> 02:15:31.240]  to the nitty gritty. You're really getting into the heart
[02:15:31.240 --> 02:15:33.240]  of that little computer that you walk
[02:15:33.240 --> 02:15:34.420]  around with in your pocket.
[02:15:35.760 --> 02:15:36.780]  And she says
[02:15:37.540 --> 02:15:39.080]  Apple doesn't tell forensic
[02:15:39.080 --> 02:15:39.840]  guys.
[02:15:41.680 --> 02:15:43.300]  They're not sending out
[02:15:43.300 --> 02:15:45.480]  memos. Did you get the TPS report
[02:15:45.480 --> 02:15:47.320]  about the new shit we put in our
[02:15:47.320 --> 02:15:49.360]  phone? That doesn't happen.
[02:15:49.620 --> 02:15:50.680]  That's not going down.
[02:15:50.680 --> 02:15:52.680]  Apple doesn't operate like that.
[02:15:54.140 --> 02:15:54.780]  And then so she
[02:15:54.780 --> 02:15:57.560]  asked a question. She says, well
[02:15:57.560 --> 02:15:58.800]  tell me about the power
[02:15:58.800 --> 02:16:00.700]  off log. What do you know about the
[02:16:00.700 --> 02:16:03.140]  power off log? He's like, what?
[02:16:04.120 --> 02:16:04.780]  What do
[02:16:04.780 --> 02:16:06.940]  you talk about? Power off
[02:16:06.940 --> 02:16:08.220]  log? What is that?
[02:16:09.280 --> 02:16:10.640]  He's like, you mean the shutdown
[02:16:10.640 --> 02:16:11.120]  log?
[02:16:13.080 --> 02:16:14.560]  And she's like, okay.
[02:16:17.420 --> 02:16:18.840]  She's like, are they different
[02:16:18.840 --> 02:16:19.380]  things?
[02:16:20.800 --> 02:16:22.820]  I'm calling it the power off log
[02:16:22.820 --> 02:16:24.040]  or power down log.
[02:16:24.740 --> 02:16:25.980]  And you call it the shutdown log.
[02:16:26.280 --> 02:16:28.760]  I think we're talking about the same shit.
[02:16:30.120 --> 02:16:30.320]  Maybe.
[02:16:30.860 --> 02:16:33.200]  She's like, how long
[02:16:33.200 --> 02:16:34.820]  does that stay
[02:16:34.820 --> 02:16:37.180]  in the power C
[02:16:38.240 --> 02:16:40.220]  or the knowledge C cache?
[02:16:42.400 --> 02:16:44.860]  He's like, it's volatile.
[02:16:45.200 --> 02:16:46.780]  It changes. It depends.
[02:16:47.360 --> 02:16:49.160]  And he's like, that's where it's like
[02:16:49.160 --> 02:16:51.140]  it's a first in, first out shit.
[02:16:53.080 --> 02:16:54.780]  It's like if it's
[02:16:55.760 --> 02:16:56.740]  the first thing in,
[02:16:56.760 --> 02:16:59.120]  it's going to get bounced. So it's a volatile
[02:16:59.120 --> 02:17:00.780]  thing. It's not. It changes.
[02:17:02.100 --> 02:17:02.940]  So she says
[02:17:02.940 --> 02:17:04.780]  then, so when Bonner
[02:17:07.220 --> 02:17:09.060]  charged the phone and turned it
[02:17:09.060 --> 02:17:09.580]  on,
[02:17:13.270 --> 02:17:15.270]  it cleared the shutdown log,
[02:17:15.490 --> 02:17:16.830]  didn't it?
[02:17:16.830 --> 02:17:20.070]  And his answer to that question,
[02:17:21.690 --> 02:17:22.990]  meaning going
[02:17:22.990 --> 02:17:25.230]  back to where he says
[02:17:26.450 --> 02:17:27.230]  he
[02:17:27.230 --> 02:17:29.190]  testified on direct, I want you to
[02:17:29.190 --> 02:17:30.470]  put this together.
[02:17:30.850 --> 02:17:32.850]  So back where he testified
[02:17:34.230 --> 02:17:35.010]  that
[02:17:36.570 --> 02:17:38.850]  no one had turned
[02:17:38.850 --> 02:17:40.170]  off the phone
[02:17:40.830 --> 02:17:43.010]  during the period
[02:17:43.010 --> 02:17:44.070]  of time.
[02:17:45.750 --> 02:17:46.310]  Okay?
[02:17:48.050 --> 02:17:49.770]  And she did not spell this out
[02:17:50.490 --> 02:17:51.970]  for everybody in the
[02:17:51.970 --> 02:17:53.870]  court. I hope everybody got it.
[02:17:53.950 --> 02:17:54.410]  I hope.
[02:17:56.130 --> 02:17:57.630]  I mean, she played it beautifully.
[02:17:58.490 --> 02:17:59.510]  Like she, so like
[02:17:59.510 --> 02:18:02.130]  she left this tantalizing
[02:18:02.130 --> 02:18:03.890]  link between these two
[02:18:03.890 --> 02:18:06.030]  things that at some point she is
[02:18:06.030 --> 02:18:06.970]  going to connect.
[02:18:07.610 --> 02:18:09.710]  And they're in deep shit. It's just like
[02:18:09.710 --> 02:18:10.750]  Osbrooke's comment.
[02:18:13.350 --> 02:18:14.670]  If you go back
[02:18:14.670 --> 02:18:16.410]  and look at his last comment, like
[02:18:16.410 --> 02:18:18.590]  not this one at 1205 before.
[02:18:18.870 --> 02:18:20.490]  When he was talking about that
[02:18:20.490 --> 02:18:22.170]  phone power. His testimony
[02:18:22.170 --> 02:18:24.390]  was that he
[02:18:24.390 --> 02:18:26.110]  never found any evidence on the phone
[02:18:26.110 --> 02:18:28.370]  that the phone powered off between
[02:18:28.370 --> 02:18:30.210]  the 537
[02:18:30.830 --> 02:18:31.790]  and the
[02:18:31.790 --> 02:18:32.930]  433 AM.
[02:18:34.550 --> 02:18:36.430]  We now know, at least according
[02:18:36.430 --> 02:18:37.630]  to Cecil,
[02:18:38.490 --> 02:18:40.210]  that when Funner
[02:18:40.930 --> 02:18:42.450]  charged the phone
[02:18:42.450 --> 02:18:44.470]  and turned it back
[02:18:44.470 --> 02:18:46.210]  on at 306
[02:18:48.110 --> 02:18:48.450]  PM
[02:18:48.790 --> 02:18:50.210]  on the 14th,
[02:18:51.030 --> 02:18:52.010]  that it cleared
[02:18:52.010 --> 02:18:53.870]  the shutdown log
[02:18:54.650 --> 02:18:55.990]  out of the cache.
[02:18:57.710 --> 02:18:58.350]  Meaning
[02:18:58.350 --> 02:19:00.230]  that's why you didn't find
[02:19:01.170 --> 02:19:02.430]  any information
[02:19:02.430 --> 02:19:04.490]  about whether the phone had been turned off
[02:19:04.970 --> 02:19:06.510]  during that 11 hours.
[02:19:09.510 --> 02:19:11.030]  It's pretty substantial.
[02:19:12.430 --> 02:19:13.770]  It's pretty substantial.
[02:19:14.710 --> 02:19:15.630]  I caught it.
[02:19:15.830 --> 02:19:18.170]  I don't know if everybody else caught it.
[02:19:18.870 --> 02:19:20.690]  I caught it.
[02:19:21.290 --> 02:19:22.570]  And it was well played by
[02:19:22.570 --> 02:19:23.090]  Ajay.
[02:19:26.510 --> 02:19:27.030]  Um...
[02:19:27.030 --> 02:19:27.990]  So then she's like
[02:19:27.990 --> 02:19:29.730]  and you know what? You know what?
[02:19:29.770 --> 02:19:31.570]  You know what I love about her?
[02:19:33.170 --> 02:19:34.210]  Is that
[02:19:34.210 --> 02:19:35.870]  she doesn't blink an eye.
[02:19:36.370 --> 02:19:36.490]  That she's like
[02:19:36.490 --> 02:19:38.490]  she knows that this dude just like
[02:19:39.650 --> 02:19:40.610]  fucked it.
[02:19:41.330 --> 02:19:42.230]  You know what I mean?
[02:19:42.470 --> 02:19:43.910]  Like she doesn't like
[02:19:44.490 --> 02:19:46.610]  like she didn't even like, I don't remember her
[02:19:46.610 --> 02:19:48.410]  turning around and giving like a wink
[02:19:48.410 --> 02:19:50.610]  to like Brad and Andy.
[02:19:51.610 --> 02:19:52.630]  You know, it's like
[02:19:52.630 --> 02:19:54.570]  typically like it's hard
[02:19:54.570 --> 02:19:56.830]  not to have a reaction
[02:19:56.830 --> 02:19:58.590]  when internally you know you've
[02:19:59.530 --> 02:20:00.810]  you've done something
[02:20:01.350 --> 02:20:01.870]  significant
[02:20:02.490 --> 02:20:04.290]  during the course of an examination.
[02:20:05.310 --> 02:20:06.610]  Um... so then she
[02:20:10.130 --> 02:20:10.650]  uh...
[02:20:10.650 --> 02:20:12.450]  So then she starts talking about the iMessage
[02:20:12.450 --> 02:20:13.890]  and then she says the two
[02:20:13.890 --> 02:20:16.050]  you know she explains it that so she says
[02:20:16.050 --> 02:20:18.290]  two final iPhone users can use
[02:20:18.290 --> 02:20:19.770]  a message when
[02:20:19.770 --> 02:20:21.850]  using encrypted mode, right?
[02:20:22.130 --> 02:20:24.190]  Because they're using their network, their cellular
[02:20:24.190 --> 02:20:26.190]  network. And then
[02:20:26.190 --> 02:20:27.690]  she says that
[02:20:29.650 --> 02:20:30.170]  um...
[02:20:30.170 --> 02:20:32.130]  or no, she says that it's using
[02:20:32.890 --> 02:20:33.410]  their
[02:20:33.410 --> 02:20:35.870]  you know iPhone to iPhone
[02:20:35.870 --> 02:20:36.890]  like that network.
[02:20:37.510 --> 02:20:39.710]  Whereas SMS is delivered through
[02:20:39.710 --> 02:20:40.270]  towers.
[02:20:41.330 --> 02:20:45.110]  Okay. And then she says that um...
[02:20:45.110 --> 02:20:45.810]  So they kind of
[02:20:45.810 --> 02:20:47.410]  get into this a little bit of a
[02:20:48.810 --> 02:20:49.550]  a discussion about
[02:20:49.550 --> 02:20:51.850]  the phone continued to receive
[02:20:53.150 --> 02:20:53.670]  uh...
[02:20:53.670 --> 02:20:55.350]  calls and messages. And then
[02:20:55.350 --> 02:20:57.130]  she says at four... so she says at
[02:20:57.130 --> 02:20:59.590]  4.06 to 4.33 a.m. there's
[02:21:00.510 --> 02:21:01.550]  zero SMS
[02:21:01.550 --> 02:21:04.010]  messages come in. Until 4.33
[02:21:04.010 --> 02:21:05.430]  when they all flood in.
[02:21:07.350 --> 02:21:07.530]  So
[02:21:07.530 --> 02:21:09.670]  he says like... and she clarifies
[02:21:09.670 --> 02:21:12.310]  she says at 4.33 p.m.
[02:21:12.590 --> 02:21:13.830]  Liberty's phone
[02:21:13.830 --> 02:21:15.570]  receives fifteen messages.
[02:21:16.610 --> 02:21:17.130]  Why?
[02:21:18.570 --> 02:21:19.730]  And he restates
[02:21:19.730 --> 02:21:21.390]  he says I don't know why.
[02:21:21.810 --> 02:21:23.630]  No idea. I don't know why.
[02:21:25.890 --> 02:21:27.770]  And she says those are time
[02:21:27.770 --> 02:21:29.550]  stamped from the tower
[02:21:29.550 --> 02:21:31.510]  when they're received. Meaning that
[02:21:31.510 --> 02:21:33.730]  if you're to look at all those SMS
[02:21:33.730 --> 02:21:35.850]  messages, every single
[02:21:35.850 --> 02:21:37.770]  one of them is going to receive
[02:21:38.110 --> 02:21:39.970]  uh... show a received time
[02:21:39.970 --> 02:21:41.730]  of 4.33. That's how it
[02:21:41.730 --> 02:21:44.030]  reads on the recipient's
[02:21:44.030 --> 02:21:45.890]  phone. Whereas
[02:21:47.010 --> 02:21:47.610]  iMessages
[02:21:47.610 --> 02:21:49.690]  show up on my phone. If Ali sends
[02:21:49.690 --> 02:21:51.930]  me an iMessage because we both have iPhones
[02:21:51.930 --> 02:21:53.750]  it's showing me when she
[02:21:53.750 --> 02:21:54.990]  sent it.
[02:21:56.310 --> 02:21:57.430]  That's the difference between
[02:21:57.430 --> 02:21:59.610]  an iMessage and SMS.
[02:22:01.090 --> 02:22:01.650]  So everything
[02:22:01.650 --> 02:22:03.730]  that floods in through the tower
[02:22:03.730 --> 02:22:05.470]  that was delivered through the tower
[02:22:05.470 --> 02:22:06.270]  to the phone
[02:22:06.930 --> 02:22:09.470]  what we're seeing is the time that the
[02:22:09.470 --> 02:22:11.530]  phone received it which is they're all saying
[02:22:11.530 --> 02:22:13.590]  4.33 a.m.
[02:22:18.530 --> 02:22:19.550]  So then
[02:22:19.550 --> 02:22:21.570]  she dips her toe back into
[02:22:22.610 --> 02:22:23.710]  the cache
[02:22:23.710 --> 02:22:25.210]  encrypted B file.
[02:22:25.710 --> 02:22:27.650]  She asked him about it earlier that he said
[02:22:28.810 --> 02:22:30.610]  I don't know.
[02:22:30.610 --> 02:22:32.890]  She's like well... she's like would it help?
[02:22:33.290 --> 02:22:34.490]  She's like do you remember when we
[02:22:34.490 --> 02:22:36.790]  I deposed you and we were just talking about all
[02:22:36.790 --> 02:22:38.910]  kinds of stuff. All the phone stuff.
[02:22:39.990 --> 02:22:40.530]  Talking about
[02:22:40.530 --> 02:22:41.770]  everything phones.
[02:22:42.370 --> 02:22:43.550]  She's like yeah I remember it.
[02:22:44.210 --> 02:22:46.290]  She's like you don't remember talking about the cache
[02:22:46.290 --> 02:22:47.630]  encrypted B file?
[02:22:49.510 --> 02:22:50.170]  He's like no.
[02:22:50.370 --> 02:22:51.610]  He's like well alright.
[02:22:51.850 --> 02:22:54.330]  He's like fortunately I have your deposition here would
[02:22:54.330 --> 02:22:56.570]  help refresh your recollection if I brought it to you
[02:22:56.570 --> 02:22:58.110]  and you could take a peek at it. She's like
[02:22:58.110 --> 02:23:00.570]  I thought that maybe you might not remember
[02:23:00.570 --> 02:23:02.350]  this so luckily I pulled these
[02:23:02.350 --> 02:23:04.590]  pages out and I have them handy right here.
[02:23:05.050 --> 02:23:06.210]  She's like yeah that would help refresh
[02:23:06.210 --> 02:23:08.390]  my recollection. So she walks up here and she's like so you
[02:23:08.390 --> 02:23:10.410]  know I gave you the page before for
[02:23:10.410 --> 02:23:12.390]  context just so you can kind of see what we're
[02:23:12.390 --> 02:23:14.430]  talking about. You know and then
[02:23:14.430 --> 02:23:16.970]  read and see if you see anything about the
[02:23:16.970 --> 02:23:18.370]  cache encrypted B file.
[02:23:19.450 --> 02:23:20.270]  And so he says
[02:23:20.270 --> 02:23:22.190]  he says okay I read it. You know it
[02:23:22.190 --> 02:23:23.050]  takes a few minutes.
[02:23:25.530 --> 02:23:26.290]  So she says
[02:23:26.290 --> 02:23:29.230]  and like everybody's fighting
[02:23:29.230 --> 02:23:31.030]  not to do with
[02:23:31.030 --> 02:23:33.110]  the you would agree with
[02:23:33.110 --> 02:23:34.630]  me. So she
[02:23:34.630 --> 02:23:36.650]  mod she changed it slightly.
[02:23:37.430 --> 02:23:38.560]  She said can we agree
[02:23:39.490 --> 02:23:41.430]  that it's a database
[02:23:41.430 --> 02:23:42.930]  that exists on the phone
[02:23:42.930 --> 02:23:45.470]  that the cache encrypted B file
[02:23:45.470 --> 02:23:47.210]  is a database
[02:23:47.210 --> 02:23:49.230]  that in fact does
[02:23:49.230 --> 02:23:51.050]  exist on the phone.
[02:23:52.170 --> 02:23:53.350]  Because he said well
[02:23:53.350 --> 02:23:55.110]  you're reading it out of context.
[02:23:55.110 --> 02:23:57.150]  So I was saying I didn't know what it was but she's
[02:23:57.150 --> 02:23:59.170]  like I understand that you don't
[02:23:59.170 --> 02:24:01.090]  know what it is. But just because
[02:24:01.090 --> 02:24:02.630]  you don't know what it is
[02:24:02.630 --> 02:24:05.450]  doesn't mean that it doesn't exist on the phone.
[02:24:05.970 --> 02:24:07.370]  So that's when she says
[02:24:07.370 --> 02:24:08.930]  can we agree
[02:24:08.930 --> 02:24:11.410]  because remember Judge Gold's not allowing
[02:24:11.410 --> 02:24:12.830]  them to say
[02:24:12.830 --> 02:24:14.190]  you would agree.
[02:24:14.950 --> 02:24:16.310]  You would agree with me.
[02:24:16.590 --> 02:24:18.730]  They're not allowed to say that. So she says
[02:24:18.730 --> 02:24:20.150]  can we agree
[02:24:20.930 --> 02:24:22.950]  that it is in fact a database
[02:24:22.950 --> 02:24:25.370]  that exists on the phone. And he has to say yes.
[02:24:25.650 --> 02:24:27.170]  By the way I saw Gull look over
[02:24:27.890 --> 02:24:28.690]  at Nick
[02:24:28.690 --> 02:24:30.970]  when she said can we agree thing.
[02:24:31.570 --> 02:24:32.710]  Nick didn't object.
[02:24:32.950 --> 02:24:34.930]  He must have been like over it
[02:24:34.930 --> 02:24:35.750]  at that point.
[02:24:37.230 --> 02:24:38.330]  And then she says
[02:24:38.850 --> 02:24:40.650]  it contains information.
[02:24:41.190 --> 02:24:41.670]  Yes.
[02:24:42.670 --> 02:24:44.390]  It says yes. Yes it does.
[02:24:45.850 --> 02:24:46.810]  Alright so
[02:24:46.810 --> 02:24:48.710]  2017 there were the three reports.
[02:24:48.830 --> 02:24:50.590]  We're talking about the three extraction ports.
[02:24:50.590 --> 02:24:52.590]  Two by Bunner and then one by
[02:24:53.370 --> 02:24:54.410]  Homeland Security
[02:24:54.410 --> 02:24:56.470]  or Customs. One of the two was Feds.
[02:24:56.690 --> 02:24:58.670]  One of the two Feds, Fed agencies.
[02:24:59.470 --> 02:25:00.930]  So then he took all that
[02:25:00.930 --> 02:25:01.650]  information
[02:25:02.290 --> 02:25:04.630]  and he made a timeline from it. All those
[02:25:04.630 --> 02:25:06.290]  extractions. He made a timeline from it.
[02:25:06.570 --> 02:25:08.630]  So she points out, she hands them
[02:25:08.630 --> 02:25:10.290]  to Defendants Exhibit P
[02:25:10.290 --> 02:25:12.310]  and she asks question
[02:25:12.310 --> 02:25:14.890]  all entries on that timeline.
[02:25:15.950 --> 02:25:16.710]  So this is where
[02:25:16.710 --> 02:25:17.350]  I think
[02:25:18.170 --> 02:25:19.730]  this smells like a trap
[02:25:19.730 --> 02:25:20.930]  to me.
[02:25:21.310 --> 02:25:23.350]  So she takes Exhibit P
[02:25:24.730 --> 02:25:25.270]  alright
[02:25:25.270 --> 02:25:27.230]  which I think she described
[02:25:27.230 --> 02:25:29.390]  but I can't remember what she said it was.
[02:25:29.490 --> 02:25:31.410]  She says question. So all entries on
[02:25:31.410 --> 02:25:33.350]  that timeline. And I think it's
[02:25:33.950 --> 02:25:34.930]  his timeline.
[02:25:36.590 --> 02:25:37.490]  It's a Defensive
[02:25:38.330 --> 02:25:39.310]  Exhibit of his
[02:25:39.310 --> 02:25:41.470]  timeline. Cecil's timeline.
[02:25:41.970 --> 02:25:43.150]  I think. They didn't put it up.
[02:25:43.730 --> 02:25:45.510]  OJ wasn't using the big monitor.
[02:25:45.510 --> 02:25:47.450]  So all entries
[02:25:47.450 --> 02:25:48.690]  on that time
[02:25:49.510 --> 02:25:51.550]  on that timeline are
[02:25:51.550 --> 02:25:53.590]  true and accurate. Correct Mr.
[02:25:53.730 --> 02:25:55.810]  Cecil? She says yes they are.
[02:25:56.770 --> 02:25:57.990]  And she says okay
[02:25:57.990 --> 02:25:59.270]  that's good.
[02:25:59.510 --> 02:26:00.950]  I'm happy about that.
[02:26:01.850 --> 02:26:02.450]  Now
[02:26:03.400 --> 02:26:05.570]  is there anything, now that you're looking
[02:26:05.570 --> 02:26:07.530]  at that, at your timeline there
[02:26:07.530 --> 02:26:09.590]  is there anything that you need
[02:26:09.590 --> 02:26:10.290]  to edit
[02:26:11.340 --> 02:26:12.250]  or correct?
[02:26:14.550 --> 02:26:16.250]  Looks at it.
[02:26:18.130 --> 02:26:18.550]  No.
[02:26:18.930 --> 02:26:19.450]  It's good.
[02:26:20.530 --> 02:26:22.210]  And so she restates it.
[02:26:22.710 --> 02:26:23.950]  So no edits.
[02:26:24.150 --> 02:26:24.970]  No corrections.
[02:26:25.910 --> 02:26:26.790]  It's good.
[02:26:27.510 --> 02:26:30.030]  That's correct. She enters
[02:26:30.030 --> 02:26:32.530]  it into evidence. So
[02:26:32.530 --> 02:26:34.450]  everyone write in your little notebook
[02:26:35.510 --> 02:26:36.650]  I want you
[02:26:36.650 --> 02:26:38.210]  to remember Defendants
[02:26:38.210 --> 02:26:39.090]  Exhibit P.
[02:26:40.010 --> 02:26:41.490]  Let's see if Bob's right.
[02:26:41.830 --> 02:26:43.690]  Let's see if that's a little
[02:26:43.690 --> 02:26:45.130]  trap. It smells like a trap
[02:26:45.130 --> 02:26:47.230]  to me. Because she just
[02:26:47.230 --> 02:26:48.710]  kind of like drops it.
[02:26:49.230 --> 02:26:50.050]  Like a hot rock.
[02:26:51.990 --> 02:26:53.050]  Smells like a trap.
[02:26:54.230 --> 02:26:55.130]  Smells like a trap.
[02:26:59.310 --> 02:27:01.190]  So as far as, so she then touches on
[02:27:01.190 --> 02:27:02.110]  moving in the car.
[02:27:02.870 --> 02:27:04.730]  She says that people are
[02:27:04.730 --> 02:27:07.070]  still, she says the fact is that people
[02:27:07.070 --> 02:27:09.170]  are still trying to figure out
[02:27:09.170 --> 02:27:11.070]  how in the hell that phone shit works,
[02:27:11.210 --> 02:27:12.690]  right? And he's like yeah.
[02:27:13.730 --> 02:27:14.890]  That's true. And she says
[02:27:14.890 --> 02:27:17.450]  that includes you, right? And he's like yeah.
[02:27:20.450 --> 02:27:20.970]  Well
[02:27:20.970 --> 02:27:22.510]  he's like well Ashley said
[02:27:22.510 --> 02:27:24.690]  that includes you. He's like
[02:27:25.890 --> 02:27:27.530]  well like what?
[02:27:27.750 --> 02:27:28.590]  What do you mean?
[02:27:29.470 --> 02:27:31.630]  She's like well, like for instance
[02:27:31.630 --> 02:27:33.170]  like you didn't
[02:27:33.170 --> 02:27:35.170]  have all the answers. Like what about
[02:27:35.170 --> 02:27:37.290]  the, you know, the fact
[02:27:37.290 --> 02:27:38.950]  that you said that it might
[02:27:38.950 --> 02:27:41.130]  track steps while in driving
[02:27:41.130 --> 02:27:43.290]  mode. Isn't might the operative
[02:27:43.290 --> 02:27:43.850]  word?
[02:27:45.030 --> 02:27:47.250]  She says yeah. Because it's
[02:27:47.250 --> 02:27:48.470]  definitely not a definitive.
[02:27:49.230 --> 02:27:51.150]  No. And she said
[02:27:51.150 --> 02:27:53.050]  it actually is in a speed bump.
[02:27:54.330 --> 02:27:55.350]  It's speed bump.
[02:27:56.310 --> 02:27:57.390]  That might fool
[02:27:57.390 --> 02:27:59.450]  the car into walking.
[02:27:59.990 --> 02:28:01.310]  That you're walking. Because it's all
[02:28:01.310 --> 02:28:02.430]  about the phone.
[02:28:03.570 --> 02:28:05.030]  The gyrometer or whatever
[02:28:05.030 --> 02:28:06.030]  it's called.
[02:28:07.390 --> 02:28:08.870]  That it's walking.
[02:28:08.950 --> 02:28:10.890]  It thinks you're walking. It's moving up and
[02:28:10.890 --> 02:28:12.670]  down. It's all about a movement thing.
[02:28:15.230 --> 02:28:16.190]  Alright, so
[02:28:18.750 --> 02:28:20.270]  and then she asks, so Greg
[02:28:20.270 --> 02:28:22.270]  can recover deleted files.
[02:28:23.450 --> 02:28:24.410]  And then
[02:28:25.470 --> 02:28:26.750]  LG's cell phone
[02:28:27.290 --> 02:28:28.610]  she just like kind of
[02:28:28.610 --> 02:28:30.670]  asks this question. And then she
[02:28:30.670 --> 02:28:32.750]  like this could be another trap. I don't even
[02:28:32.750 --> 02:28:34.710]  know. It seemed like she was setting traps left
[02:28:34.710 --> 02:28:36.670]  and right. She would just ask some
[02:28:36.670 --> 02:28:38.550]  shit and then just like leave it out there.
[02:28:39.070 --> 02:28:40.550]  So she's got it on the record.
[02:28:40.910 --> 02:28:42.770]  She's got this guy saying affirmative
[02:28:42.770 --> 02:28:44.630]  answers. She says Greg
[02:28:44.630 --> 02:28:46.690]  he can recover deleted files
[02:28:46.690 --> 02:28:48.850]  right? And he says yeah.
[02:28:49.530 --> 02:28:50.270]  And then
[02:28:50.790 --> 02:28:52.910]  she says Liberty German's phone.
[02:28:53.430 --> 02:28:54.790]  You recovered some deleted
[02:28:54.790 --> 02:28:56.410]  files from there didn't you?
[02:28:57.150 --> 02:28:58.410]  And I'm like what?
[02:28:59.370 --> 02:29:00.910]  Alright. Slipping up on my shit.
[02:29:01.010 --> 02:29:02.410]  I'm like now we getting some shit.
[02:29:03.690 --> 02:29:04.530]  And he says
[02:29:04.530 --> 02:29:06.550]  yes. And then she moves on. Oh my god
[02:29:06.550 --> 02:29:08.510]  damn it. What's going on here?
[02:29:09.270 --> 02:29:10.510]  So that could be another trap.
[02:29:11.190 --> 02:29:12.590]  He's got, he's getting
[02:29:12.590 --> 02:29:14.610]  affirmative answers on a lot of things
[02:29:14.610 --> 02:29:16.450]  and she's kind of like leaving him dangling
[02:29:16.450 --> 02:29:18.610]  there. Real low hanging
[02:29:18.610 --> 02:29:20.210]  fruit that's waiting to get picked.
[02:29:21.970 --> 02:29:22.850]  Alright, so
[02:29:23.510 --> 02:29:24.570]  then she gets into
[02:29:24.570 --> 02:29:26.410]  Bunner connected to a network.
[02:29:27.790 --> 02:29:28.770]  In terms
[02:29:28.770 --> 02:29:30.630]  of information that
[02:29:32.050 --> 02:29:32.610]  was
[02:29:34.070 --> 02:29:34.630]  downloaded
[02:29:36.410 --> 02:29:37.530]  and then
[02:29:37.530 --> 02:29:38.330]  McClellan made it
[02:29:38.330 --> 02:29:39.810]  outside the scope objection.
[02:29:40.130 --> 02:29:42.830]  She said wait, wait a second, wait a second.
[02:29:43.210 --> 02:29:43.910]  It's like
[02:29:43.910 --> 02:29:46.310]  he testified to it. He talked about
[02:29:46.310 --> 02:29:48.850]  Bunner connecting to the tower. She said okay.
[02:29:49.110 --> 02:29:50.410]  Overruled. You can answer.
[02:29:51.290 --> 02:29:52.690]  And she said there's other ways
[02:29:52.690 --> 02:29:54.390]  to get info from the cloud.
[02:29:54.390 --> 02:29:56.390]  Other than...
[02:29:57.310 --> 02:29:58.530]  Because she was starting to get into
[02:29:58.530 --> 02:30:00.470]  like, wouldn't it have been
[02:30:00.470 --> 02:30:02.270]  best practice to get a search warrant
[02:30:02.270 --> 02:30:03.830]  to pull that shit
[02:30:04.770 --> 02:30:05.830]  from the cloud.
[02:30:06.610 --> 02:30:08.370]  She said there's other ways to get
[02:30:08.370 --> 02:30:09.610]  info from the cloud.
[02:30:11.370 --> 02:30:12.570]  Cloud data, right?
[02:30:12.650 --> 02:30:13.550]  She said yeah.
[02:30:14.370 --> 02:30:16.450]  She says that, so she's like I just want
[02:30:16.450 --> 02:30:18.510]  to be clear. So every time that you plug in
[02:30:19.030 --> 02:30:20.610]  and turn on the phone you're losing
[02:30:20.610 --> 02:30:21.790]  data. Yes.
[02:30:21.790 --> 02:30:24.050]  And you also lose data over
[02:30:24.050 --> 02:30:24.690]  time.
[02:30:26.070 --> 02:30:28.190]  And he says well when you power the phone on, yes.
[02:30:30.230 --> 02:30:32.090]  And then she gets into the feds
[02:30:32.090 --> 02:30:33.790]  requested phone data in
[02:30:33.790 --> 02:30:34.630]  2017.
[02:30:37.530 --> 02:30:38.490]  And then...
[02:30:38.490 --> 02:30:39.850]  And then they sent it to
[02:30:39.850 --> 02:30:41.470]  Homeland Security and they did an extraction.
[02:30:41.750 --> 02:30:43.590]  And they lost data then, didn't they?
[02:30:44.390 --> 02:30:45.890]  So then this is where it gets really
[02:30:45.890 --> 02:30:47.790]  interesting. At least
[02:30:48.490 --> 02:30:49.770]  this is why I think
[02:30:49.770 --> 02:30:52.230]  it's like the
[02:30:52.230 --> 02:30:54.050]  two, the couple that I do not speak
[02:30:54.050 --> 02:30:55.950]  of, like ran out of
[02:30:55.950 --> 02:30:57.870]  the courtroom. I think they're giving this
[02:30:57.870 --> 02:30:59.910]  dying to know if they're giving this way more
[02:30:59.910 --> 02:31:01.110]  significance than it deserves.
[02:31:01.550 --> 02:31:03.950]  So she then asks these questions to end her cross
[02:31:03.950 --> 02:31:04.610]  examination.
[02:31:05.630 --> 02:31:07.770]  So now I want to talk to you about Richard Annalen's
[02:31:07.770 --> 02:31:09.870]  devices. We're like...
[02:31:09.870 --> 02:31:11.890]  Like she had me on the edge of my
[02:31:11.890 --> 02:31:13.770]  seat on three separate occasions because there's three
[02:31:13.770 --> 02:31:16.090]  things that she brought up that I really
[02:31:16.090 --> 02:31:17.910]  really really have been dying to
[02:31:17.910 --> 02:31:19.950]  know. So she says,
[02:31:20.570 --> 02:31:21.390]  isn't it true
[02:31:21.750 --> 02:31:23.790]  that there is nothing on
[02:31:24.290 --> 02:31:25.810]  any... So first, I take it back,
[02:31:25.930 --> 02:31:27.750]  first she had him... She says,
[02:31:27.770 --> 02:31:29.790]  so you did searches on Richard Annalen's devices,
[02:31:29.850 --> 02:31:31.790]  correct? He says, yes. How
[02:31:31.790 --> 02:31:33.710]  many? He said, can I look at my report? She says,
[02:31:33.710 --> 02:31:36.010]  sure, go ahead. He just goes,
[02:31:36.650 --> 02:31:38.150]  and remember, this isn't phones,
[02:31:38.290 --> 02:31:39.810]  it's devices. The words
[02:31:39.810 --> 02:31:42.050]  matter. We have no
[02:31:42.050 --> 02:31:43.810]  idea how many phones this is. We have
[02:31:43.810 --> 02:31:46.170]  no idea if this is hard drives, computers.
[02:31:46.170 --> 02:31:48.650]  I'm sure it is. Everything
[02:31:48.650 --> 02:31:50.050]  that contains data,
[02:31:50.450 --> 02:31:51.550]  they grab from that house.
[02:31:52.950 --> 02:31:54.310]  So he says,
[02:31:54.390 --> 02:31:56.210]  23 devices. That's what we took from
[02:31:56.210 --> 02:31:58.290]  that house. 23 devices.
[02:31:58.570 --> 02:31:59.450]  That's what we got.
[02:32:01.070 --> 02:32:02.290]  And on all those devices,
[02:32:02.330 --> 02:32:03.010]  she says,
[02:32:04.250 --> 02:32:06.230]  you found nothing on any
[02:32:06.230 --> 02:32:08.430]  of them that connects
[02:32:08.430 --> 02:32:10.310]  Richard Annalen to either
[02:32:10.310 --> 02:32:12.270]  Liberty German or Abigail
[02:32:12.270 --> 02:32:13.650]  Williams, did you?
[02:32:13.650 --> 02:32:15.370]  She says, no.
[02:32:17.310 --> 02:32:17.750]  And he says,
[02:32:17.830 --> 02:32:19.910]  you also, on all
[02:32:19.910 --> 02:32:21.770]  those 23 devices that you have
[02:32:21.770 --> 02:32:23.750]  extracted all the data from,
[02:32:24.210 --> 02:32:25.830]  and have all these different things
[02:32:25.830 --> 02:32:27.730]  to look through, nothing
[02:32:27.730 --> 02:32:29.670]  on any of those devices
[02:32:29.670 --> 02:32:31.830]  ties Richard Annalen
[02:32:31.830 --> 02:32:33.070]  to the murder
[02:32:33.650 --> 02:32:35.270]  of Liberty German
[02:32:35.270 --> 02:32:37.430]  and Abigail Williams,
[02:32:37.970 --> 02:32:39.010]  does it?
[02:32:39.410 --> 02:32:40.770]  She says, no.
[02:32:43.650 --> 02:32:45.150]  She calls it a day.
[02:32:45.910 --> 02:32:47.590]  So I'm like, damn.
[02:32:48.290 --> 02:32:48.670]  Damn.
[02:32:50.690 --> 02:32:51.150]  Damn.
[02:32:51.890 --> 02:32:53.770]  I had heard that nothing on the devices
[02:32:53.770 --> 02:32:55.370]  connected them to the girls.
[02:32:56.330 --> 02:32:57.610]  I hadn't heard that nothing
[02:32:57.610 --> 02:32:58.930]  connected them to the murder.
[02:33:00.350 --> 02:33:02.010]  So then Nick gets up.
[02:33:02.470 --> 02:33:03.830]  And he goes over a few
[02:33:03.830 --> 02:33:04.370]  things.
[02:33:05.990 --> 02:33:07.630]  And he says,
[02:33:09.170 --> 02:33:09.850]  the guy just wants to be
[02:33:09.850 --> 02:33:11.490]  clear. So from
[02:33:11.490 --> 02:33:13.790]  2.32 p.m.
[02:33:14.410 --> 02:33:15.650]  until 4.33
[02:33:15.650 --> 02:33:17.890]  a.m.
[02:33:18.510 --> 02:33:19.730]  Liberty German's phone
[02:33:19.730 --> 02:33:21.330]  records no movement.
[02:33:22.530 --> 02:33:23.410]  He says, that's right.
[02:33:23.870 --> 02:33:24.550]  No movement.
[02:33:25.690 --> 02:33:27.350]  That phone did not move.
[02:33:28.070 --> 02:33:28.370]  Maybe.
[02:33:29.010 --> 02:33:30.610]  He didn't say that maybe I added that.
[02:33:31.190 --> 02:33:32.670]  So then we get to the question.
[02:33:32.870 --> 02:33:34.910]  This is the big question.
[02:33:36.250 --> 02:33:37.130]  He says, so
[02:33:37.130 --> 02:33:39.090]  how many devices from R.A.'s house
[02:33:39.090 --> 02:33:40.350]  were analyzed again?
[02:33:40.910 --> 02:33:41.650]  Twenty-three.
[02:33:43.210 --> 02:33:43.730]  He said,
[02:33:45.210 --> 02:33:47.090]  were you able to
[02:33:47.690 --> 02:33:48.650]  note the date
[02:33:48.650 --> 02:33:51.190]  that those devices, all
[02:33:51.190 --> 02:33:53.530]  those devices were released to the public?
[02:33:55.110 --> 02:33:57.270]  And he said, yes, to all the cell phones.
[02:33:58.770 --> 02:34:00.430]  And he said that Rick Allen
[02:34:00.930 --> 02:34:02.790]  had a cell phone in 2017.
[02:34:03.310 --> 02:34:03.410]  Correct.
[02:34:04.470 --> 02:34:05.550]  He says, yes, he did.
[02:34:05.550 --> 02:34:07.450]  And he says,
[02:34:08.090 --> 02:34:09.670]  and during the course of your
[02:34:09.670 --> 02:34:11.550]  investigation, you were able to
[02:34:11.550 --> 02:34:13.710]  identify what
[02:34:13.710 --> 02:34:15.790]  the MEID number
[02:34:15.790 --> 02:34:17.730]  of that cell phone that
[02:34:17.730 --> 02:34:19.770]  Rick had in 2017 was,
[02:34:20.170 --> 02:34:20.650]  weren't you?
[02:34:21.990 --> 02:34:23.150]  And he said, yes,
[02:34:23.910 --> 02:34:25.070]  I was.
[02:34:26.030 --> 02:34:27.870]  And he says, okay, so now
[02:34:27.870 --> 02:34:29.770]  you've extracted all these
[02:34:29.770 --> 02:34:31.730]  devices, specifically the
[02:34:31.730 --> 02:34:33.050]  phones we're talking about.
[02:34:33.050 --> 02:34:35.030]  Did you compare
[02:34:35.030 --> 02:34:37.050]  the MEIDs
[02:34:38.330 --> 02:34:39.290]  with all the
[02:34:39.290 --> 02:34:40.770]  devices that you tested
[02:34:40.770 --> 02:34:44.410]  to the MEID
[02:34:44.410 --> 02:34:45.590]  of the
[02:34:45.590 --> 02:34:47.050]  2017
[02:34:47.050 --> 02:34:48.290]  phone that Rick had?
[02:34:51.710 --> 02:34:52.750]  Did any of
[02:34:52.750 --> 02:34:54.790]  those MEIDs
[02:34:54.790 --> 02:34:55.710]  match
[02:34:57.530 --> 02:34:58.630]  Rick's
[02:34:58.630 --> 02:35:00.690]  2017 MEID
[02:35:00.690 --> 02:35:01.870]  from those
[02:35:01.870 --> 02:35:03.590]  23 to the phone
[02:35:03.590 --> 02:35:05.330]  that he had in 2017?
[02:35:06.130 --> 02:35:07.890]  He says that
[02:35:07.890 --> 02:35:09.710]  phone was not analyzed. His 27
[02:35:09.710 --> 02:35:10.550]  phone
[02:35:11.610 --> 02:35:13.610]  wasn't analyzed. We didn't find
[02:35:13.610 --> 02:35:15.990]  a device that had that MEID on it.
[02:35:20.520 --> 02:35:20.960]  So you're
[02:35:20.960 --> 02:35:22.360]  like, oh, man.
[02:35:25.360 --> 02:35:26.000]  Oh,
[02:35:26.680 --> 02:35:28.100]  what happened to the phone?
[02:35:28.740 --> 02:35:29.840]  Where'd the phone land?
[02:35:32.420 --> 02:35:32.800]  So I'm
[02:35:32.800 --> 02:35:34.100]  like, oh, man.
[02:35:36.900 --> 02:35:37.940]  So then
[02:35:37.940 --> 02:35:39.080]  Auger gets up
[02:35:39.080 --> 02:35:40.920]  and she says, he ends it
[02:35:40.920 --> 02:35:42.740]  on that. He thinks it's like a mic drop.
[02:35:44.300 --> 02:35:44.820]  I think other
[02:35:44.820 --> 02:35:47.140]  people probably think it's a mic drop, right?
[02:35:48.460 --> 02:35:48.980]  So
[02:35:48.980 --> 02:35:50.880]  Auger says, well, when did you
[02:35:50.880 --> 02:35:53.120]  get these devices, all these
[02:35:53.120 --> 02:35:55.040]  different devices from his house?
[02:35:57.920 --> 02:35:58.440]  And
[02:35:59.020 --> 02:35:59.900]  he says,
[02:35:59.900 --> 02:36:02.520]  I believe we got them on the search
[02:36:02.520 --> 02:36:04.600]  on November 8th, 2022.
[02:36:06.520 --> 02:36:08.170]  And then so as soon as
[02:36:08.440 --> 02:36:10.120]  Auger starts asking the question,
[02:36:11.540 --> 02:36:11.800]  well,
[02:36:12.400 --> 02:36:13.940]  most people
[02:36:16.140 --> 02:36:16.880]  don't
[02:36:16.880 --> 02:36:18.280]  keep the same
[02:36:18.280 --> 02:36:20.100]  cell phone for five
[02:36:20.100 --> 02:36:22.180]  years. Nick stands up
[02:36:22.180 --> 02:36:24.060]  and objects, and he
[02:36:24.060 --> 02:36:25.780]  says, calls for speculation.
[02:36:28.500 --> 02:36:29.060]  And
[02:36:29.060 --> 02:36:31.560]  Gull sustains it.
[02:36:32.200 --> 02:36:32.620]  And Auger
[02:36:32.620 --> 02:36:34.160]  says, ah, okay.
[02:36:34.480 --> 02:36:35.060]  Sits down.
[02:36:35.940 --> 02:36:37.380]  So that's where it's left.
[02:36:37.560 --> 02:36:38.800]  On that cliffhanger.
[02:36:40.240 --> 02:36:41.520]  It's a real cliffhanger.
[02:36:43.260 --> 02:36:43.740]  I'm sure
[02:36:43.740 --> 02:36:45.940]  the tour should pitch for a crew like, oh,
[02:36:45.960 --> 02:36:47.840]  we got him, he threw away his
[02:36:47.840 --> 02:36:49.940]  phone. Or
[02:36:49.940 --> 02:36:51.520]  it was lost or destroyed.
[02:36:51.800 --> 02:36:53.420]  I mean, the one thing that we know about
[02:36:53.420 --> 02:36:54.160]  phones
[02:36:55.640 --> 02:36:57.540]  is that there's always a record
[02:36:57.540 --> 02:36:59.180]  unless you're buying a burner.
[02:37:00.440 --> 02:37:01.500]  Sometimes even
[02:37:01.500 --> 02:37:03.540]  then, if you've connected
[02:37:03.540 --> 02:37:05.740]  it to an account that is your service
[02:37:05.740 --> 02:37:07.200]  provider, you're going to get a burner
[02:37:07.200 --> 02:37:09.460]  on, you know, on the grid, too.
[02:37:10.000 --> 02:37:11.540]  But, like, your shit's on the grid,
[02:37:13.620 --> 02:37:15.540]  Like, there's going
[02:37:15.540 --> 02:37:17.420]  to be records in terms of
[02:37:18.240 --> 02:37:19.300]  when a phone
[02:37:19.300 --> 02:37:20.360]  was
[02:37:23.270 --> 02:37:24.330]  no longer
[02:37:24.330 --> 02:37:26.190]  in use, when
[02:37:26.190 --> 02:37:27.490]  a new phone
[02:37:28.530 --> 02:37:30.470]  began being used.
[02:37:32.790 --> 02:37:33.830]  I mean,
[02:37:34.870 --> 02:37:36.210]  look, it could potentially
[02:37:36.210 --> 02:37:37.570]  be huge for the state.
[02:37:38.430 --> 02:37:40.150]  If it is, if
[02:37:40.150 --> 02:37:42.050]  Rick got rid of his phone two days
[02:37:42.050 --> 02:37:43.930]  after the murders, that's super sus.
[02:37:47.290 --> 02:37:49.210]  But I have to believe
[02:37:52.420 --> 02:37:53.060]  that
[02:37:53.060 --> 02:37:54.800]  if that happened,
[02:37:56.740 --> 02:37:57.200]  that Nick
[02:37:57.200 --> 02:37:58.940]  McLeanland would have brought it up during
[02:37:58.940 --> 02:38:00.240]  opening statements.
[02:38:02.700 --> 02:38:03.980]  Because that
[02:38:03.980 --> 02:38:05.360]  would become
[02:38:05.360 --> 02:38:07.000]  one of the most damning pieces
[02:38:07.000 --> 02:38:08.280]  of evidence they had.
[02:38:14.890 --> 02:38:16.530]  We'll find out what happens
[02:38:16.530 --> 02:38:18.170]  with it. It was interesting,
[02:38:18.510 --> 02:38:19.670]  for sure.
[02:38:19.670 --> 02:38:21.130]  You know?
[02:38:22.770 --> 02:38:23.690]  I've never
[02:38:23.690 --> 02:38:25.650]  kept a phone for five years.
[02:38:28.510 --> 02:38:29.190]  You know?
[02:38:29.650 --> 02:38:30.770]  I mean, was
[02:38:32.030 --> 02:38:33.310]  whatever data
[02:38:33.310 --> 02:38:35.510]  that they tested a device
[02:38:35.510 --> 02:38:37.570]  that Rick had and
[02:38:37.570 --> 02:38:39.910]  like, he had transferred all his shit
[02:38:39.910 --> 02:38:41.730]  from his old phone to a new
[02:38:41.730 --> 02:38:43.530]  phone through the cloud?
[02:38:45.430 --> 02:38:46.950]  I mean, maybe.
[02:38:46.950 --> 02:38:49.170]  Maybe, probably.
[02:38:52.370 --> 02:38:52.570]  I mean,
[02:38:52.570 --> 02:38:53.770]  those are things
[02:38:53.770 --> 02:38:55.790]  that remember
[02:38:55.790 --> 02:38:58.850]  the state didn't bring up
[02:38:58.850 --> 02:39:01.750]  during their direct examination
[02:39:01.750 --> 02:39:02.850]  of their own witness.
[02:39:03.430 --> 02:39:05.240]  That only got brought up
[02:39:05.730 --> 02:39:07.230]  after Auge
[02:39:08.130 --> 02:39:09.850]  asked the questions
[02:39:09.850 --> 02:39:11.170]  about no link.
[02:39:12.030 --> 02:39:13.450]  That was their way
[02:39:13.450 --> 02:39:14.690]  of trying to...
[02:39:14.690 --> 02:39:15.690]  So now,
[02:39:16.150 --> 02:39:18.350]  when the state puts their phone
[02:39:18.350 --> 02:39:19.490]  people on
[02:39:20.770 --> 02:39:22.170]  and they're able
[02:39:22.380 --> 02:39:24.350]  to give an explanation,
[02:39:24.410 --> 02:39:25.530]  if they are,
[02:39:26.910 --> 02:39:28.630]  as to
[02:39:28.630 --> 02:39:30.350]  was the data
[02:39:30.350 --> 02:39:32.450]  that was on a phone
[02:39:32.450 --> 02:39:34.650]  in 2017, was it transferred
[02:39:34.650 --> 02:39:35.770]  to a new phone
[02:39:36.360 --> 02:39:38.270]  or was able to give
[02:39:38.270 --> 02:39:40.330]  an explanation of
[02:39:40.330 --> 02:39:42.750]  why that phone in 2017
[02:39:42.750 --> 02:39:44.210]  no longer exists?
[02:39:46.270 --> 02:39:46.630]  I mean,
[02:39:46.750 --> 02:39:48.570]  it's like, you have to wonder
[02:39:48.570 --> 02:39:50.330]  why the state didn't bring it up
[02:39:50.330 --> 02:39:52.750]  if it was smoking gun evidence when they
[02:39:53.650 --> 02:39:55.250]  had the opportunity
[02:39:55.970 --> 02:39:56.890]  to talk to
[02:39:56.890 --> 02:39:58.470]  the guy who extracted
[02:39:58.470 --> 02:40:00.990]  all the phones, all the devices of Richard Allen.
[02:40:02.650 --> 02:40:04.270]  I mean, are we to think that
[02:40:04.270 --> 02:40:06.830]  Nick was so clever in terms of
[02:40:07.450 --> 02:40:08.630]  being able to read
[02:40:08.630 --> 02:40:10.650]  the minds of the defense that they were definitely
[02:40:10.650 --> 02:40:12.030]  going to ask that during
[02:40:12.710 --> 02:40:14.750]  the cross and that he had set
[02:40:14.750 --> 02:40:16.290]  that trap for them?
[02:40:17.190 --> 02:40:18.770]  Because, like, he's making
[02:40:18.770 --> 02:40:20.330]  the scope on direct.
[02:40:21.390 --> 02:40:23.050]  Meaning, they can't
[02:40:23.050 --> 02:40:24.650]  make some kind of object. He could
[02:40:24.650 --> 02:40:26.150]  bring up whatever the hell
[02:40:26.870 --> 02:40:28.970]  he wants during direct
[02:40:30.150 --> 02:40:30.770]  presuming
[02:40:30.770 --> 02:40:32.850]  that his witness has knowledge
[02:40:32.850 --> 02:40:34.550]  about it and can testify, which
[02:40:34.550 --> 02:40:35.690]  this dude did.
[02:40:36.970 --> 02:40:38.450]  So it's interesting. It was
[02:40:38.450 --> 02:40:40.710]  an interesting way to close out the day.
[02:40:40.930 --> 02:40:42.030]  As you can imagine,
[02:40:42.690 --> 02:40:44.650]  the jury had a shit
[02:40:44.650 --> 02:40:44.910]  ton.
[02:40:46.210 --> 02:40:47.830]  They loved the tech stuff.
[02:40:48.230 --> 02:40:50.130]  They loved the tech stuff. Like, the two
[02:40:50.130 --> 02:40:52.450]  most voluminous amount of questions that
[02:40:52.450 --> 02:40:54.530]  they asked have been regarding the tech
[02:40:54.530 --> 02:40:56.710]  stuff. So the questions from the jury
[02:40:56.710 --> 02:40:58.550]  and they were, like, I'm going to flat
[02:40:58.550 --> 02:40:59.610]  out tell you,
[02:41:00.510 --> 02:41:02.630]  they went so fast. She reads the questions
[02:41:02.630 --> 02:41:04.330]  so fast and doesn't repeat them.
[02:41:05.270 --> 02:41:06.510]  Like, by this time, my
[02:41:06.510 --> 02:41:08.390]  hand looked like a claw.
[02:41:09.190 --> 02:41:10.670]  Like, I had to, like, fit the pen
[02:41:10.670 --> 02:41:12.450]  in, like, through this finger and this finger
[02:41:12.450 --> 02:41:13.870]  kind of, like, right like this.
[02:41:14.490 --> 02:41:16.590]  It was tough. I was trying to keep up.
[02:41:17.030 --> 02:41:18.650]  So I'll do the best I can with
[02:41:18.650 --> 02:41:20.670]  them. First, referring
[02:41:20.670 --> 02:41:21.930]  to your first report
[02:41:22.630 --> 02:41:24.310]  for Sergeant Cecil,
[02:41:24.890 --> 02:41:26.390]  205 bridge picture,
[02:41:26.690 --> 02:41:27.990]  picture of the high bridge,
[02:41:29.610 --> 02:41:30.450]  did you ever locate
[02:41:30.450 --> 02:41:32.510]  that photo? Said no.
[02:41:33.810 --> 02:41:34.430]  Question two,
[02:41:34.430 --> 02:41:36.630]  what are all the blank spaces
[02:41:36.630 --> 02:41:38.870]  on your report? And this is, again, still
[02:41:38.870 --> 02:41:40.450]  relating to the first report.
[02:41:40.730 --> 02:41:42.410]  When you looked at it, there were a bunch of, like,
[02:41:42.530 --> 02:41:43.650]  kind of grayed out areas.
[02:41:44.670 --> 02:41:46.630]  What are all the blank spaces on your
[02:41:46.630 --> 02:41:48.530]  report in the line for the battery?
[02:41:50.010 --> 02:41:50.370]  He says
[02:41:50.370 --> 02:41:51.630]  the gray spots,
[02:41:52.870 --> 02:41:54.430]  he's like, he's like, they're just,
[02:41:54.430 --> 02:41:56.490]  there was no information there. So instead of just
[02:41:56.490 --> 02:41:58.430]  kind of, like, leaving it
[02:41:59.270 --> 02:42:00.550]  sitting there, I just filled it
[02:42:00.550 --> 02:42:02.350]  in with blanks. We just didn't, there was
[02:42:02.350 --> 02:42:04.350]  zero information about it.
[02:42:05.110 --> 02:42:06.370]  And he says, how does it,
[02:42:06.910 --> 02:42:08.530]  how does the phone receive messages
[02:42:09.530 --> 02:42:10.050]  without
[02:42:10.050 --> 02:42:12.750]  cell tower signal? So that's,
[02:42:12.910 --> 02:42:14.530]  he says, through
[02:42:14.530 --> 02:42:16.350]  either Wi-Fi or
[02:42:19.330 --> 02:42:20.510]  through, like, an internal
[02:42:20.510 --> 02:42:22.570]  network, like iMessaging.
[02:42:24.690 --> 02:42:26.350]  He says, did you ever check
[02:42:31.110 --> 02:42:31.630]  with AT&T?
[02:42:31.630 --> 02:42:32.830]  Oh, she said, she,
[02:42:32.830 --> 02:42:34.890]  they asked this great question. Did you ever
[02:42:34.890 --> 02:42:37.490]  check with AT&T
[02:42:38.070 --> 02:42:40.450]  to see if they were having issues
[02:42:40.450 --> 02:42:42.010]  with that tower?
[02:42:42.890 --> 02:42:44.590]  So they're trying to dip into,
[02:42:45.930 --> 02:42:47.670]  the jury's trying to figure out
[02:42:47.670 --> 02:42:48.350]  why
[02:42:48.350 --> 02:42:50.650]  that shit might not have been hitting the phone
[02:42:50.650 --> 02:42:52.250]  until 4.33 a.m.
[02:42:52.950 --> 02:42:54.670]  He says, no, I never,
[02:42:54.670 --> 02:42:56.370]  I never checked with AT&T.
[02:42:56.550 --> 02:42:58.330]  And interestingly, Ajay asked
[02:42:58.330 --> 02:43:00.350]  the question, that's not
[02:43:00.350 --> 02:43:02.430]  like normally something you
[02:43:02.430 --> 02:43:04.570]  as a digital
[02:43:04.570 --> 02:43:06.630]  forensic guy would do, right? Like
[02:43:06.630 --> 02:43:08.270]  call to find out if towers are
[02:43:08.270 --> 02:43:10.410]  fucked up? He's like, yeah, that's not
[02:43:10.410 --> 02:43:11.690]  that's not something I would do.
[02:43:12.450 --> 02:43:14.090]  So five was,
[02:43:15.990 --> 02:43:18.110]  the Snapchat keep photos,
[02:43:18.370 --> 02:43:20.390]  like this is like, this is, she read this way too
[02:43:20.390 --> 02:43:22.250]  and asked, it was a convoluted question,
[02:43:22.290 --> 02:43:24.250]  but it was still good though. Like I knew what they were
[02:43:24.250 --> 02:43:26.770]  getting at. The Snapchat keep photos
[02:43:27.630 --> 02:43:29.530]  that are placed in a story.
[02:43:30.690 --> 02:43:32.470]  And he says, no, that Snapchat
[02:43:32.470 --> 02:43:34.270]  doesn't. But like again, you can
[02:43:34.270 --> 02:43:36.290]  toggle it so that it goes
[02:43:36.290 --> 02:43:37.450]  to your camera roll.
[02:43:38.110 --> 02:43:40.450]  And he says, that's what he says, that it would be saved in the
[02:43:40.450 --> 02:43:42.110]  camera roll. So
[02:43:44.270 --> 02:43:46.250]  and then they asked, the
[02:43:46.250 --> 02:43:48.870]  photos that are sent
[02:43:48.870 --> 02:43:50.830]  through Snapchat
[02:43:50.830 --> 02:43:52.810]  to a friend on the phone, can they be saved?
[02:43:52.830 --> 02:43:54.810]  And he said, I don't know. Yeah, I think that
[02:43:54.810 --> 02:43:56.730]  it's the same thing. You can do screen grabs.
[02:43:56.810 --> 02:43:58.970]  If your friends on Snapchat send you a picture,
[02:43:59.430 --> 02:44:00.450]  you can screen grab it.
[02:44:00.590 --> 02:44:02.890]  And they get a notification that you screen grabbed it.
[02:44:03.210 --> 02:44:04.610]  I think same with the story.
[02:44:05.070 --> 02:44:06.750]  But don't quote me on that. I don't
[02:44:06.750 --> 02:44:07.810]  know shit about Snapchat.
[02:44:11.230 --> 02:44:12.830]  Okay, and then I think there was a
[02:44:12.830 --> 02:44:14.690]  question I just missed.
[02:44:15.970 --> 02:44:17.750]  So she says, can iMessages
[02:44:17.750 --> 02:44:19.830]  be sent via cellular
[02:44:19.830 --> 02:44:21.810]  service? And he said, yes.
[02:44:22.970 --> 02:44:24.390]  If sent through the tower,
[02:44:27.150 --> 02:44:28.990]  if sent through the tower connected,
[02:44:29.350 --> 02:44:31.250]  if it's sent through a tower though, it'll come in
[02:44:31.250 --> 02:44:33.050]  as an SMM. So it's not
[02:44:33.050 --> 02:44:33.930]  really an iMessage.
[02:44:34.950 --> 02:44:36.970]  Like for us, it changes color.
[02:44:37.450 --> 02:44:38.890]  Like if it turns into an SMM,
[02:44:38.990 --> 02:44:41.370]  it goes from being like green to blue, I think.
[02:44:43.390 --> 02:44:43.790]  Alright.
[02:44:45.310 --> 02:44:47.470]  I'm way behind on this shit. Oh my god.
[02:44:47.470 --> 02:44:48.930]  And I still have to do your questions.
[02:44:50.390 --> 02:44:51.350]  What time is it?
[02:44:51.350 --> 02:44:53.390]  Oh my god, guys. It's almost one.
[02:44:54.190 --> 02:44:55.450]  I gotta get up in like, it seems
[02:44:55.450 --> 02:44:56.710]  like in just a few hours.
[02:44:58.150 --> 02:44:58.550]  Okay.
[02:44:59.830 --> 02:45:01.470]  Then they had a great question. It was super
[02:45:02.410 --> 02:45:03.410]  techy and long.
[02:45:03.650 --> 02:45:05.190]  And I was like, I couldn't work like,
[02:45:06.010 --> 02:45:07.570]  hopefully, Andrew or Lee
[02:45:07.570 --> 02:45:08.990]  got it. It was something about Q and Lee.
[02:45:08.990 --> 02:45:09.750]  Oh shit.
[02:45:10.770 --> 02:45:12.110]  I missed it.
[02:45:13.030 --> 02:45:14.670]  Did the method one
[02:45:14.670 --> 02:45:15.690]  extraction
[02:45:16.890 --> 02:45:19.090]  extract the knowledge C
[02:45:19.090 --> 02:45:19.530]  data?
[02:45:20.870 --> 02:45:22.150]  And he said no.
[02:45:23.030 --> 02:45:25.370]  And then could Snapchat
[02:45:25.370 --> 02:45:27.090]  videos or photos be
[02:45:27.090 --> 02:45:27.710]  deleted
[02:45:32.730 --> 02:45:33.810]  by
[02:45:35.150 --> 02:45:36.230]  when
[02:45:36.230 --> 02:45:38.570]  the phone is turned on and off?
[02:45:38.610 --> 02:45:40.430]  Like, because of lack
[02:45:40.430 --> 02:45:41.130]  of usage?
[02:45:41.950 --> 02:45:43.810]  And he says no.
[02:45:44.790 --> 02:45:46.430]  Like, those are say, like, user
[02:45:46.430 --> 02:45:48.350]  made things are not going to get deleted.
[02:45:48.850 --> 02:45:51.090]  Which I think if you've saved them
[02:45:51.090 --> 02:45:52.400]  to your
[02:45:52.750 --> 02:45:54.270]  camera roll from Snap,
[02:45:55.330 --> 02:45:56.310]  they're like
[02:45:56.310 --> 02:45:58.530]  exempt from being deleted from
[02:45:58.530 --> 02:45:59.870]  lack of usage.
[02:46:00.510 --> 02:46:02.230]  Like, the things that fall off
[02:46:03.370 --> 02:46:04.330]  when the phone
[02:46:04.330 --> 02:46:05.430]  is turned on and off.
[02:46:06.330 --> 02:46:07.530]  So there was a question.
[02:46:08.170 --> 02:46:10.370]  Snapchat photos are stored in
[02:46:10.370 --> 02:46:11.650]  the Snapchat cache.
[02:46:13.170 --> 02:46:14.450]  Not knowledge C.
[02:46:15.410 --> 02:46:16.770]  Is it possible
[02:46:16.770 --> 02:46:18.330]  that Snapchat
[02:46:19.830 --> 02:46:20.530]  cache
[02:46:20.530 --> 02:46:21.830]  or cache
[02:46:22.650 --> 02:46:24.330]  that some photos...
[02:46:27.270 --> 02:46:29.250]  Oh, yeah. Man, I was losing it here.
[02:46:32.950 --> 02:46:33.430]  Okay.
[02:46:34.010 --> 02:46:35.410]  I kept trying to rewrite
[02:46:35.410 --> 02:46:37.250]  this question three times. So could
[02:46:37.250 --> 02:46:39.150]  Snapchat photos not be
[02:46:39.150 --> 02:46:39.630]  saved
[02:46:41.010 --> 02:46:43.070]  depending on how they were posted?
[02:46:43.770 --> 02:46:45.090]  Meaning, okay, so if it was
[02:46:45.090 --> 02:46:46.130]  to the story
[02:46:46.130 --> 02:46:48.630]  or if it was to a friend
[02:46:50.990 --> 02:46:52.890]  and they're talking about it in the cache
[02:46:52.890 --> 02:46:54.610]  and he says, I don't know.
[02:46:55.190 --> 02:46:56.610]  Like, he doesn't know shit.
[02:46:57.590 --> 02:46:58.830]  He just doesn't know.
[02:46:58.830 --> 02:47:01.170]  He doesn't know shit. Like, about Snapchat.
[02:47:01.270 --> 02:47:02.090]  Like, he just
[02:47:02.810 --> 02:47:03.830]  doesn't know.
[02:47:04.370 --> 02:47:04.730]  Alright.
[02:47:07.950 --> 02:47:08.670]  And then he says,
[02:47:08.750 --> 02:47:10.350]  do you know why or could you explain
[02:47:10.350 --> 02:47:12.490]  why you find some Snapchat photos
[02:47:12.490 --> 02:47:14.190]  and not others? No.
[02:47:15.310 --> 02:47:16.830]  And then Liberty German
[02:47:18.270 --> 02:47:18.910]  account
[02:47:18.910 --> 02:47:20.910]  could have been accessed by
[02:47:20.910 --> 02:47:21.970]  another phone.
[02:47:22.610 --> 02:47:24.550]  Correct? That was Augé
[02:47:24.550 --> 02:47:26.890]  re-asking him. And he said, yes.
[02:47:29.210 --> 02:47:30.870]  And so does data tell you
[02:47:30.870 --> 02:47:32.910]  the start time of the two
[02:47:32.910 --> 02:47:34.830]  flight climbs? And he said, yeah.
[02:47:36.810 --> 02:47:38.570]  It was at 2.32.
[02:47:40.590 --> 02:47:42.830]  And then what happened to...
[02:47:48.040 --> 02:47:49.120]  I don't know what the hell
[02:47:49.120 --> 02:47:51.060]  was. Oh. So they asked
[02:47:51.060 --> 02:47:52.980]  what happened to the Apple Health data
[02:47:53.540 --> 02:47:55.060]  at 2.1848
[02:47:55.060 --> 02:47:56.320]  to 2.25.
[02:47:57.200 --> 02:47:59.040]  He's like, where did it go? He says, it's not missing.
[02:47:59.040 --> 02:48:00.300]  There was just no movement.
[02:48:02.220 --> 02:48:03.180]  And then they
[02:48:03.180 --> 02:48:04.980]  asked, how did you determine... So this
[02:48:04.980 --> 02:48:07.100]  was their last question. And to me it was the most
[02:48:07.100 --> 02:48:09.000]  important. So how did you
[02:48:09.000 --> 02:48:11.020]  determine that RA,
[02:48:11.240 --> 02:48:13.060]  Richard Allen, had no connection to
[02:48:13.060 --> 02:48:14.920]  the girls on his devices?
[02:48:16.240 --> 02:48:16.940]  And he's like,
[02:48:16.980 --> 02:48:19.100]  because there was no information found on
[02:48:19.100 --> 02:48:21.040]  any of his devices. There was no
[02:48:21.560 --> 02:48:22.840]  internet search history.
[02:48:22.920 --> 02:48:24.960]  There was no
[02:48:24.960 --> 02:48:27.140]  messaging. There was nothing. Nothing connecting
[02:48:27.140 --> 02:48:29.400]  to the girls. And then
[02:48:29.400 --> 02:48:31.140]  Nick stood up and he said, well,
[02:48:31.600 --> 02:48:33.100]  but you did locate
[02:48:33.100 --> 02:48:35.320]  an internet search about
[02:48:35.320 --> 02:48:36.820]  the girls after the murder.
[02:48:37.140 --> 02:48:38.440]  He says, yeah, that's true.
[02:48:39.260 --> 02:48:41.800]  And then Augie stood up and she said, but
[02:48:42.560 --> 02:48:43.440]  you don't
[02:48:43.440 --> 02:48:45.160]  know... And again, this is on
[02:48:45.160 --> 02:48:47.160]  just a device. We don't know what it
[02:48:47.160 --> 02:48:48.640]  could be, an iPad that everybody uses.
[02:48:49.000 --> 02:48:51.240]  So he says, but you have no idea
[02:48:52.580 --> 02:48:53.440]  who accessed
[02:48:53.440 --> 02:48:55.340]  that search about the girls
[02:48:55.340 --> 02:48:57.460]  being missing, like Kathy.
[02:48:58.500 --> 02:48:59.460]  So that was it.
[02:48:59.460 --> 02:49:00.840]  That wrapped it. All right.
[02:49:01.280 --> 02:49:03.500]  Real quick. I got to get through the questions.
[02:49:04.240 --> 02:49:05.400]  Got to get through
[02:49:05.400 --> 02:49:06.360]  the questions.
[02:49:07.480 --> 02:49:09.400]  Looks like the girls pulled some shit out for me
[02:49:09.400 --> 02:49:11.320]  because they love me. All right. So first
[02:49:11.320 --> 02:49:13.800]  thank yous and questions. So
[02:49:13.800 --> 02:49:15.280]  Miss B's crafting life. New member.
[02:49:15.540 --> 02:49:16.120]  Aw, family hug.
[02:49:17.440 --> 02:49:19.400]  We are Cosmic Dust. Love that
[02:49:19.400 --> 02:49:21.360]  handle. New member. Aw,
[02:49:21.580 --> 02:49:22.740]  family hug. Welcome.
[02:49:23.180 --> 02:49:24.320]  We are Cosmic Dust.
[02:49:24.580 --> 02:49:26.840]  How far is the access road to where the girls
[02:49:26.840 --> 02:49:28.800]  were found? Is it a drivable route
[02:49:28.800 --> 02:49:30.860]  between the two? Make sure you really do
[02:49:30.860 --> 02:49:32.660]  Bob and Allie. Super drivable.
[02:49:32.980 --> 02:49:34.500]  It's right there. It's like
[02:49:34.500 --> 02:49:36.760]  the access road is like right
[02:49:36.760 --> 02:49:38.900]  there. Like that's what the
[02:49:38.900 --> 02:49:40.480]  defense is saying. That the girls,
[02:49:40.940 --> 02:49:43.020]  once they get down to the hill, you hit that access
[02:49:43.020 --> 02:49:44.840]  road. And that the girls are
[02:49:44.840 --> 02:49:47.060]  brought down to the hill and ushered into a vehicle
[02:49:47.060 --> 02:49:48.860]  potentially. And
[02:49:48.860 --> 02:49:50.760]  whisked away. And then the
[02:49:50.760 --> 02:49:52.940]  horrible things happened and they were brought back.
[02:49:53.120 --> 02:49:54.980]  And that somebody turned the phone on.
[02:49:55.060 --> 02:49:56.660]  Left it under Abby's body.
[02:49:57.100 --> 02:49:58.400]  So the girls could be discovered.
[02:49:59.120 --> 02:50:00.400]  So thank you for your generosity.
[02:50:00.660 --> 02:50:02.440]  Jolene, nine dollar holla. Ten dollar holla.
[02:50:02.580 --> 02:50:04.280]  Actually, thank you very much. Jessica Miller,
[02:50:04.760 --> 02:50:06.780]  five dollar holla. Thank you very much.
[02:50:07.780 --> 02:50:08.640]  How did the jury handle
[02:50:08.640 --> 02:50:09.960]  all the evidence shown today?
[02:50:10.900 --> 02:50:12.420]  Like champions. Really.
[02:50:12.720 --> 02:50:15.180]  Who made me small? Oh, hi.
[02:50:15.600 --> 02:50:17.020]  Missy's back here. Messing around.
[02:50:18.200 --> 02:50:18.760]  Uh,
[02:50:19.800 --> 02:50:21.260]  I'm assuming that you're talking
[02:50:21.260 --> 02:50:22.780]  about the
[02:50:24.000 --> 02:50:24.560]  disturbing
[02:50:25.580 --> 02:50:26.420]  autopsy photos.
[02:50:26.860 --> 02:50:28.520]  I had said this earlier.
[02:50:28.860 --> 02:50:30.720]  I was incredibly impressed
[02:50:30.720 --> 02:50:33.280]  with their, like, there was no one
[02:50:33.280 --> 02:50:35.240]  showing any emotion. They were all
[02:50:35.240 --> 02:50:37.340]  engaged in looking at the photographs.
[02:50:37.660 --> 02:50:39.160]  And I'm telling you,
[02:50:39.220 --> 02:50:41.240]  this jury is
[02:50:41.240 --> 02:50:41.800]  legit.
[02:50:43.160 --> 02:50:46.600]  Legit. Like, there was no crying on the
[02:50:47.720 --> 02:50:48.240]  professional.
[02:50:48.740 --> 02:50:50.760]  Like, these, these are, these are some
[02:50:50.760 --> 02:50:52.460]  jurors that are taking this shit super seriously.
[02:50:52.500 --> 02:50:54.160]  I really respect a lot of them.
[02:50:54.640 --> 02:50:56.500]  So, uh, habitual line stepper.
[02:50:56.700 --> 02:50:58.580]  I could not love that handle
[02:50:58.580 --> 02:51:00.840]  more than I do. It's actually,
[02:51:01.680 --> 02:51:02.620]  it's actually my,
[02:51:03.040 --> 02:51:04.000]  it's like my line.
[02:51:04.460 --> 02:51:06.560]  They say I'm a habitual line stepper.
[02:51:07.020 --> 02:51:08.580]  Uh, so five dollar holla, I
[02:51:08.580 --> 02:51:10.700]  worked, and that's no bullshit. I worked with
[02:51:10.700 --> 02:51:11.860]  SC circa
[02:51:13.080 --> 02:51:15.100]  2015. Not surprised.
[02:51:15.100 --> 02:51:17.340]  All right, so we got a Snapchat Pro
[02:51:17.340 --> 02:51:19.320]  in there. K-Dawg, thank you
[02:51:19.320 --> 02:51:21.220]  for that, that, uh,
[02:51:21.220 --> 02:51:23.140]  sweet, sweet five dollar holla.
[02:51:23.360 --> 02:51:25.180]  K-Dawg, 8173, thank you
[02:51:25.180 --> 02:51:27.420]  once again. I, I feel you.
[02:51:27.480 --> 02:51:29.240]  I still want a drone pilot. I'm licensed
[02:51:29.240 --> 02:51:31.100]  with, uh, I don't know
[02:51:31.100 --> 02:51:32.940]  what that is. DJI drone.
[02:51:33.200 --> 02:51:34.980]  I'm not, I'm not drone smart, bro.
[02:51:35.020 --> 02:51:37.120]  So I'm gonna trust you that that's dope. I'm eight miles
[02:51:37.120 --> 02:51:38.880]  away from Delphi, free of charge.
[02:51:39.280 --> 02:51:40.280]  Check out the trees.
[02:51:41.240 --> 02:51:43.040]  The Roosevelt Beast stakes around.
[02:51:43.040 --> 02:51:45.640]  Dude, I love it. I love it.
[02:51:45.640 --> 02:51:46.920]  Uh, email me, bro.
[02:51:47.720 --> 02:51:48.600]  Email me, man.
[02:51:52.040 --> 02:51:52.520]  Um...
[02:51:52.520 --> 02:51:53.080]  Johannes Windleberry,
[02:51:53.300 --> 02:51:55.220]  ten dollar holla, two questions. Has there ever been a
[02:51:55.220 --> 02:51:56.640]  case that affects you this much?
[02:51:57.100 --> 02:51:59.400]  I mean, cases that I tried, yes.
[02:52:00.600 --> 02:52:01.000]  Yes.
[02:52:01.220 --> 02:52:02.700]  Obviously, cases that I tried.
[02:52:03.140 --> 02:52:05.460]  But in terms of cases that I have
[02:52:05.460 --> 02:52:06.880]  covered, no.
[02:52:06.900 --> 02:52:08.660]  Not even close. Like,
[02:52:08.660 --> 02:52:11.200]  I've been all in on this since
[02:52:11.200 --> 02:52:13.440]  the arrest. I mean, I obviously, I look two
[02:52:13.440 --> 02:52:15.380]  hours away from Delphi doing some
[02:52:15.380 --> 02:52:17.280]  change. I've always followed the case.
[02:52:17.580 --> 02:52:19.380]  I just, I wasn't into the
[02:52:19.380 --> 02:52:21.540]  speculation and trying to be a web sleuth,
[02:52:21.540 --> 02:52:23.420]  trying to, you
[02:52:23.420 --> 02:52:25.380]  know, figure the case out without having the
[02:52:25.380 --> 02:52:27.400]  evidence. That wasn't for me, but as soon as the arrest
[02:52:27.400 --> 02:52:29.260]  was made, I've been all in. I've been to every
[02:52:29.260 --> 02:52:31.060]  hearing. So, yeah, no.
[02:52:31.140 --> 02:52:33.320]  It's like, I've been
[02:52:33.320 --> 02:52:35.340]  just obsessed with this
[02:52:35.340 --> 02:52:36.940]  case. I,
[02:52:37.480 --> 02:52:39.400]  I'm like so thrilled
[02:52:39.400 --> 02:52:40.580]  that I'm at this trial.
[02:52:42.140 --> 02:52:43.580]  So, there are times when you've
[02:52:43.580 --> 02:52:45.460]  mentioned Court TV, but I haven't been able to
[02:52:45.460 --> 02:52:47.500]  find you. I was on tonight with Vinnie.
[02:52:48.020 --> 02:52:49.520]  So, I consult with them
[02:52:49.520 --> 02:52:51.500]  for, no, I go on their shows.
[02:52:51.580 --> 02:52:53.620]  Like, I was on with Vinnie on Vinnie
[02:52:53.620 --> 02:52:55.400]  Palatine Investigates tonight.
[02:52:55.880 --> 02:52:57.080]  So, thank you for that $10
[02:52:57.080 --> 02:52:59.460]  holla, but keep finding. I
[02:52:59.460 --> 02:53:01.440]  usually, you should follow me on Twitter if you're on Twitter
[02:53:01.440 --> 02:53:03.440]  because I always post there when I'm going on
[02:53:03.440 --> 02:53:05.060]  Court TV. Because
[02:53:05.060 --> 02:53:07.540]  Law and Crime doesn't do the hosty thing anymore. Afton
[02:53:07.540 --> 02:53:09.620]  is coming through with the 5DD memberships. Thank you
[02:53:09.620 --> 02:53:10.720]  so much.
[02:53:11.420 --> 02:53:13.340]  Johannes comes back with another $5.
[02:53:13.560 --> 02:53:15.520]  Does one man cut two girls' throats
[02:53:15.520 --> 02:53:17.380]  without their hands being tied? No
[02:53:17.380 --> 02:53:18.740]  ligature marks. That's facts.
[02:53:19.240 --> 02:53:20.680]  No ligature marks on the wrist.
[02:53:21.940 --> 02:53:23.520]  It's tough. I mean, you gotta
[02:53:23.520 --> 02:53:25.420]  like, you know, they're gonna have to do it.
[02:53:26.060 --> 02:53:26.540]  Denise
[02:53:27.280 --> 02:53:29.480]  Miller, new member. Aw, family hug. Underachiever
[02:53:29.480 --> 02:53:30.700]  new member. Aw, family hug.
[02:53:31.380 --> 02:53:33.640]  Ali, that's crazy. They didn't extract
[02:53:33.640 --> 02:53:35.600]  earlier to see if someone made plans
[02:53:35.600 --> 02:53:37.480]  with them. I agree, babe.
[02:53:38.140 --> 02:53:39.680]  That is a joke Bob is not handling
[02:53:39.680 --> 02:53:40.980]  out. Handling what?
[02:53:41.420 --> 02:53:43.460]  Legal advice. Oh yeah, I was obviously joking
[02:53:43.460 --> 02:53:45.420]  about that. Nor legal advice.
[02:53:45.700 --> 02:53:47.480]  Oh my god. Look at my wife.
[02:53:47.860 --> 02:53:49.820]  What the fuck? Ali.
[02:53:51.420 --> 02:53:51.740]  Michelle
[02:53:51.740 --> 02:53:53.080]  N, $10
[02:53:53.480 --> 02:53:55.980]  notebook fund. Love you. Thank you.
[02:53:56.460 --> 02:53:57.540]  I definitely need it.
[02:53:57.660 --> 02:53:59.940]  I've switched over to
[02:53:59.940 --> 02:54:01.600]  the mechanical pencils. I've decided they're
[02:54:01.600 --> 02:54:03.580]  way better than pens. I like them. You don't have
[02:54:03.580 --> 02:54:05.420]  to press as hard. That is not right.
[02:54:05.460 --> 02:54:07.880]  Shouldn't be just reprocessing it all in the
[02:54:07.880 --> 02:54:09.560]  chart. Alright, so you guys read... I don't have to read
[02:54:09.560 --> 02:54:11.500]  Ali shit. You guys read it, I assume.
[02:54:12.400 --> 02:54:13.620]  Court of Public Opinion. Bob and
[02:54:13.620 --> 02:54:15.340]  Ali are doing a hell of a job delivering the details.
[02:54:15.500 --> 02:54:17.520]  Appreciate you, Public Opinion.
[02:54:18.660 --> 02:54:19.460]  Appreciate you.
[02:54:20.020 --> 02:54:21.480]  Stefano, why was there no fingerprints
[02:54:21.480 --> 02:54:23.620]  taken from the phone? I think they tried.
[02:54:24.000 --> 02:54:25.560]  I would assume. I hope the
[02:54:25.560 --> 02:54:27.780]  defense brings this up. Is Holman or
[02:54:28.700 --> 02:54:29.100]  Lazenby
[02:54:29.100 --> 02:54:30.000]  testing later?
[02:54:31.060 --> 02:54:32.140]  I think so.
[02:54:33.320 --> 02:54:34.660]  Very, very soon.
[02:54:35.400 --> 02:54:36.480]  Maybe tomorrow.
[02:54:38.900 --> 02:54:39.280]  Carbun.
[02:54:39.420 --> 02:54:40.660]  So is the data from
[02:54:40.660 --> 02:54:42.600]  the Abby pick on the phone even
[02:54:42.600 --> 02:54:44.860]  though her pick is not on the camera roll?
[02:54:46.020 --> 02:54:47.000]  We don't know.
[02:54:48.820 --> 02:54:49.660]  We don't know.
[02:54:50.400 --> 02:54:51.460]  It's not on the phone.
[02:54:51.480 --> 02:54:52.820]  They couldn't find that Abby pick
[02:54:52.820 --> 02:54:53.620]  on the phone.
[02:54:54.080 --> 02:54:56.300]  That's why Ogier asked, is it possible
[02:54:56.300 --> 02:54:58.000]  that somebody
[02:55:00.040 --> 02:55:01.360]  accessed her account
[02:55:01.360 --> 02:55:03.140]  and somehow got that picture
[02:55:04.260 --> 02:55:05.640]  and used it from a different
[02:55:05.640 --> 02:55:05.980]  account?
[02:55:09.430 --> 02:55:10.630]  I don't know.
[02:55:11.770 --> 02:55:12.790]  It's crazy.
[02:55:14.730 --> 02:55:15.570]  Daniel Napper wasn't
[02:55:15.570 --> 02:55:17.350]  reported earlier that Libby was having
[02:55:17.350 --> 02:55:19.270]  problems with her phone and Libby
[02:55:19.270 --> 02:55:21.150]  or the family did a factory reset on her phone.
[02:55:21.250 --> 02:55:22.130]  I don't know.
[02:55:22.630 --> 02:55:24.610]  There's not coming in testimony and I'm not
[02:55:24.610 --> 02:55:26.950]  in the business speculating a trial.
[02:55:27.490 --> 02:55:28.710]  I'm all about the facts now.
[02:55:28.710 --> 02:55:29.250]  I don't know.
[02:55:29.970 --> 02:55:31.410]  Maybe somebody in the chat knew that.
[02:55:31.790 --> 02:55:33.510]  That has not been testified to.
[02:55:34.750 --> 02:55:36.450]  That I can tell you.
[02:55:37.410 --> 02:55:38.810]  PopTartyB, love you.
[02:55:39.110 --> 02:55:39.430]  Love you.
[02:55:39.630 --> 02:55:41.930]  Thank you for the consistently great coverage and analysis.
[02:55:42.250 --> 02:55:43.170]  Appreciate you.
[02:55:43.350 --> 02:55:46.330]  $5 holla from the wife. Processing and loading
[02:55:46.330 --> 02:55:47.530]  extractions. Bullshit!
[02:55:48.590 --> 02:55:50.530]  So they were stuck with the
[02:55:50.530 --> 02:55:52.030]  God, babe
[02:55:52.630 --> 02:55:54.250]  typos. I can't even like context
[02:55:54.250 --> 02:55:55.650]  isn't helping me.
[02:55:55.650 --> 02:55:57.650]  With the parameet.
[02:55:58.610 --> 02:56:00.110]  The first guy used
[02:56:01.010 --> 02:56:01.570]  why
[02:56:01.570 --> 02:56:03.830]  which did not track weeks earlier.
[02:56:05.650 --> 02:56:07.710]  So they were stuck with
[02:56:08.690 --> 02:56:09.250]  sorry.
[02:56:10.130 --> 02:56:11.210]  I got the apple.
[02:56:11.450 --> 02:56:13.570]  I get that apple is super secretive. But
[02:56:14.130 --> 02:56:15.850]  this is the best data analysis
[02:56:15.850 --> 02:56:17.710]  they can come up with. Seems like it.
[02:56:17.770 --> 02:56:18.690]  I mean it's their expert.
[02:56:19.710 --> 02:56:21.590]  Did they find any convo with King
[02:56:21.590 --> 02:56:23.470]  Klein? Not that we know of.
[02:56:23.470 --> 02:56:25.570]  I mean I read you everything
[02:56:25.570 --> 02:56:27.270]  that was testified to today, kids.
[02:56:27.850 --> 02:56:28.770]  So that's it.
[02:56:29.830 --> 02:56:31.510]  Did anyone answer a question about
[02:56:31.510 --> 02:56:33.830]  did the defense get to analyze the phone?
[02:56:33.990 --> 02:56:35.290]  Which phone? Libby's?
[02:56:35.430 --> 02:56:37.710]  I mean they got the report. I do not
[02:56:37.710 --> 02:56:39.110]  know if they were able to.
[02:56:39.110 --> 02:56:41.390]  What would have happened is that their expert
[02:56:41.390 --> 02:56:43.690]  would have gotten the extraction.
[02:56:45.990 --> 02:56:47.610]  And they should have been able
[02:56:47.610 --> 02:56:48.930]  to run it themselves.
[02:56:49.330 --> 02:56:51.210]  But we'll find out when their experts testify.
[02:56:51.210 --> 02:56:53.390]  Inspiring a vote for a roundtable with
[02:56:53.390 --> 02:56:55.230]  DeMando's Andrea and lawyer Lee at some point?
[02:56:55.430 --> 02:56:57.470]  I agree. I agree.
[02:56:58.610 --> 02:56:59.250]  I'm sure we'll make
[02:56:59.250 --> 02:56:59.850]  that happen.
[02:57:00.950 --> 02:57:03.270]  Maybe we'll do something like
[02:57:03.270 --> 02:57:05.510]  maybe something cool would be
[02:57:05.510 --> 02:57:07.330]  like when the three of us get
[02:57:07.330 --> 02:57:08.270]  together
[02:57:09.350 --> 02:57:11.050]  right after closings.
[02:57:11.590 --> 02:57:13.410]  And just lay it all out there. I'm gonna
[02:57:13.410 --> 02:57:14.770]  pitch that to the girls tomorrow.
[02:57:15.270 --> 02:57:17.210]  Alright, so Emily $5.00 Hala.
[02:57:18.190 --> 02:57:19.470]  Sarah's testimony stinks
[02:57:19.470 --> 02:57:21.810]  of covering up for someone, something.
[02:57:22.150 --> 02:57:23.970]  I'm not a conspiratorial type
[02:57:23.970 --> 02:57:25.450]  but this whole thing stinks.
[02:57:26.350 --> 02:57:28.170]  Pray for your service. I appreciate you.
[02:57:28.470 --> 02:57:29.670]  Thanks for that $5.00 Hala.
[02:57:29.830 --> 02:57:30.710]  I appreciate you.
[02:57:31.890 --> 02:57:33.770]  Did the record, did they record
[02:57:33.770 --> 02:57:35.590]  battery life when the phone was found?
[02:57:36.070 --> 02:57:37.730]  Last charge of phone. How long
[02:57:37.730 --> 02:57:39.590]  would the phone last on standby? I think I
[02:57:39.590 --> 02:57:41.710]  answered those. Like everything that we have
[02:57:42.530 --> 02:57:44.110]  like I just told you.
[02:57:44.310 --> 02:57:46.230]  Like so, like they don't have
[02:57:46.230 --> 02:57:47.950]  like they lost it.
[02:57:47.950 --> 02:57:50.230]  I don't know if you're still here because this
[02:57:50.230 --> 02:57:52.330]  is from almost an hour ago.
[02:57:52.330 --> 02:57:53.630]  Actually over an hour ago.
[02:57:54.150 --> 02:57:55.670]  So I got to that question.
[02:57:56.510 --> 02:57:59.070]  Pat to play Bob you just want to make
[02:57:59.590 --> 02:58:00.570]  must make you just want
[02:58:00.570 --> 02:58:01.790]  to hug your girls actually Bob.
[02:58:01.850 --> 02:58:03.610]  100% definitely.
[02:58:04.290 --> 02:58:05.110]  $2.00 Hala.
[02:58:06.570 --> 02:58:07.990]  Matt Hatter $20.00 Hala.
[02:58:08.150 --> 02:58:09.970]  Has anyone started a stenography
[02:58:09.970 --> 02:58:11.730]  machine fund for Bob's finger?
[02:58:12.050 --> 02:58:13.690]  God, Matt Hatter I love you.
[02:58:14.110 --> 02:58:16.110]  And so Allie doesn't have to try to put
[02:58:16.110 --> 02:58:18.030]  together as hieroglyphics.
[02:58:18.030 --> 02:58:19.950]  Point. Point.
[02:58:20.070 --> 02:58:21.930]  Two great points. Asking for the lovely
[02:58:21.930 --> 02:58:23.790]  modest. Appreciate you so much Matt Hatter.
[02:58:26.950 --> 02:58:27.850]  My Bebo.
[02:58:28.970 --> 02:58:29.890]  Has there been any buzz about
[02:58:29.890 --> 02:58:32.190]  $350,000 reward money possibly
[02:58:32.190 --> 02:58:33.750]  in connection with today's witness?
[02:58:34.250 --> 02:58:36.430]  Sarah Carbaugh in her hostile testimony
[02:58:36.430 --> 02:58:38.150]  today. Interesting. There has not been
[02:58:38.150 --> 02:58:39.810]  any chat about that. I love that.
[02:58:40.170 --> 02:58:42.050]  So is she the one identifying the killer?
[02:58:42.150 --> 02:58:43.830]  Doesn't seem like it.
[02:58:44.370 --> 02:58:46.170]  Didn't Kelsey have her login
[02:58:46.170 --> 02:58:48.630]  info? I don't know.
[02:58:48.950 --> 02:58:49.950]  Hasn't come up yet. Has
[02:58:49.950 --> 02:58:51.910]  R.A.'s daughter been there? No, she has not.
[02:58:53.410 --> 02:58:54.250]  I think she has a new
[02:58:54.250 --> 02:58:55.470]  they have a new kid.
[02:58:56.790 --> 02:58:58.150]  As a matter of fact, I know they do.
[02:58:58.510 --> 02:58:59.970]  Pantoufle, the one in 2017
[02:59:00.370 --> 02:59:01.770]  phone that's missing. Did
[02:59:01.770 --> 02:59:03.850]  he get rid of it? Did Allie?
[02:59:03.950 --> 02:59:06.030]  Are you talking about the
[02:59:06.030 --> 02:59:07.770]  2017 phone? We don't know.
[02:59:08.410 --> 02:59:09.830]  But I mean,
[02:59:10.790 --> 02:59:12.110]  they didn't ask. The
[02:59:12.110 --> 02:59:14.570]  didn't bring it up. If they had some
[02:59:14.570 --> 02:59:16.770]  smoking gun evidence that he disposed of the phone,
[02:59:17.070 --> 02:59:18.110]  like his phone records,
[02:59:18.650 --> 02:59:20.290]  maybe they have a witness that's going to come on
[02:59:20.290 --> 02:59:21.430]  and say some shit like that.
[02:59:22.390 --> 02:59:24.110]  But in terms of what they
[02:59:25.090 --> 02:59:25.930]  have examined,
[02:59:26.570 --> 02:59:27.730]  if he got a new phone,
[02:59:28.730 --> 02:59:30.110]  in this world,
[02:59:30.390 --> 02:59:31.990]  people are getting a new phone
[02:59:31.990 --> 02:59:33.430]  in a five-year period.
[02:59:34.490 --> 02:59:37.230]  So, I don't know.
[02:59:38.010 --> 02:59:38.950]  Could it have been
[02:59:38.950 --> 02:59:40.030]  lost or destroyed?
[02:59:40.030 --> 02:59:42.210]  When? I guess will matter.
[02:59:43.090 --> 02:59:44.250]  If I'm the state,
[02:59:44.350 --> 02:59:46.370]  I'm going to certainly focus on if that
[02:59:46.370 --> 02:59:47.970]  2017 phone
[02:59:49.910 --> 02:59:50.870]  gets damaged
[02:59:51.570 --> 02:59:52.610]  two weeks after
[02:59:52.610 --> 02:59:54.010]  the murders,
[02:59:55.530 --> 02:59:56.630]  depends as a problem.
[02:59:58.390 --> 02:59:59.010]  Two dollar hollow
[02:59:59.010 --> 03:00:00.290]  coffee in the morning. Thanks, Bob.
[03:00:01.610 --> 03:00:02.650]  What was Richard
[03:00:02.650 --> 03:00:04.190]  Allen like? He was, like I said,
[03:00:04.210 --> 03:00:05.970]  he's been very engaged in this trial.
[03:00:06.090 --> 03:00:08.270]  Very talkative, looks normal,
[03:00:08.270 --> 03:00:08.850]  he's talking,
[03:00:09.870 --> 03:00:11.610]  he's listening to all the witnesses,
[03:00:11.870 --> 03:00:13.650]  he's paying attention to the whole trial.
[03:00:14.230 --> 03:00:16.370]  He's there. He's there for it.
[03:00:16.970 --> 03:00:18.570]  Love to Bob for doing this
[03:00:18.570 --> 03:00:20.590]  and his family for supporting him.
[03:00:20.730 --> 03:00:22.150]  Here, here. For real.
[03:00:22.410 --> 03:00:23.990]  Kids. Johannes is back.
[03:00:24.550 --> 03:00:26.190]  Council, rhino-sized hamster or
[03:00:26.190 --> 03:00:28.510]  hamster-sized rhino? I'd have to say
[03:00:28.510 --> 03:00:30.010]  hamster-sized rhino.
[03:00:30.990 --> 03:00:32.290]  100%. I gotta keep that thing
[03:00:32.290 --> 03:00:33.030]  in my pocket.
[03:00:34.010 --> 03:00:36.010]  Keith, would it have been
[03:00:36.010 --> 03:00:37.470]  reasonable for investigators to pull
[03:00:37.470 --> 03:00:39.270]  tower and or knowledge data,
[03:00:39.550 --> 03:00:41.490]  knowledge seed data from the earlier
[03:00:41.490 --> 03:00:43.650]  BG witnesses to corroborate the
[03:00:43.650 --> 03:00:45.410]  timeframes they claimed? Keep it up,
[03:00:45.430 --> 03:00:47.290]  love the coverage. Hell yeah.
[03:00:47.830 --> 03:00:49.410]  Like the only one that they had
[03:00:49.410 --> 03:00:52.010]  any kind of time stamp from was
[03:00:53.770 --> 03:00:54.590]  what's her face?
[03:00:54.610 --> 03:00:56.510]  The second girl. Not Ray Lee.
[03:00:57.110 --> 03:00:57.670]  Rhiann.
[03:00:57.850 --> 03:00:59.710]  So she had taken the one Snapchat
[03:00:59.710 --> 03:01:02.210]  at 1.26 p.m.
[03:01:02.310 --> 03:01:03.930]  where you saw the old Mears farm
[03:01:03.930 --> 03:01:06.190]  behind it, which puts her pretty
[03:01:06.190 --> 03:01:08.130]  close to the Freedom Bridge at 1.26,
[03:01:08.130 --> 03:01:11.870]  which blew Ray Lee's
[03:01:11.870 --> 03:01:12.190]  timeline
[03:01:12.190 --> 03:01:13.970]  out of the water. It's like, I'm like, why did
[03:01:13.970 --> 03:01:15.950]  they put these two witnesses, one
[03:01:15.950 --> 03:01:18.150]  who destroys the timeline of the other one?
[03:01:18.450 --> 03:01:19.550]  They're seeing
[03:01:19.550 --> 03:01:21.970]  Bridge Guy in a group when they're
[03:01:21.970 --> 03:01:23.730]  together at completely different times. Like
[03:01:23.730 --> 03:01:25.990]  45 minutes apart. I didn't know why they did it.
[03:01:26.770 --> 03:01:27.850]  So, appreciate that $10
[03:01:27.850 --> 03:01:29.910]  holla, brother. Kdogg, another two.
[03:01:29.930 --> 03:01:31.250]  How do I email you?
[03:01:31.250 --> 03:01:33.190]  If you need footage, I'll help.
[03:01:34.570 --> 03:01:35.450]  It's Bob
[03:01:35.450 --> 03:01:37.350]  at DefenseDiaries.com.
[03:01:38.390 --> 03:01:39.290]  Alright, you guys are amazing.
[03:01:39.410 --> 03:01:41.050]  I love you. Thank you for hanging so late.
[03:01:41.590 --> 03:01:43.190]  I gotta go to bed. I gotta get up.
[03:01:43.430 --> 03:01:45.210]  I gotta go write for you more tomorrow.
[03:01:46.030 --> 03:01:47.170]  And take copious notes.
[03:01:47.250 --> 03:01:48.910]  You guys are amazing. I love you so much.
[03:01:48.970 --> 03:01:50.750]  My mods are... you're beautiful.
[03:01:51.630 --> 03:01:53.070]  Every single one of your mods is
[03:01:53.070 --> 03:01:54.430]  beautiful and I love you.
[03:01:55.110 --> 03:01:56.550]  I think you're just amazing.
[03:01:57.470 --> 03:01:59.210]  Missy hanging in the whole way.
[03:01:59.830 --> 03:02:00.790]  Just beautiful.
[03:02:00.810 --> 03:02:02.110]  Go look in the mirror.
[03:02:02.710 --> 03:02:04.910]  And admire just how fantastic
[03:02:04.910 --> 03:02:07.070]  and beautiful of a human you are right now.
[03:02:07.410 --> 03:02:08.990]  I love you guys. Cause without y'all
[03:02:08.990 --> 03:02:11.110]  I'm just some old man talking about
[03:02:11.110 --> 03:02:12.430]  a whole bunch of cases.
[03:02:12.930 --> 03:02:14.070]  Talk to you tomorrow. Brightner.
[03:02:37.750 --> 03:02:39.430]  Thank you for watching.
[03:02:39.450 --> 03:02:41.650]  If you enjoyed this video,
[03:02:41.670 --> 03:02:43.870]  please give it a thumbs up.
[03:02:44.170 --> 03:02:52.310]  See you in the next one.