## How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Oohmynameisblue » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:46 am

You know what I'm talking about. If you don't, I'm talking about TRUMP.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Chris12 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:51 am

I called it but that doesn't really make me very happy.
Should we count America's state as one where they can no longer take rational decisions? It was an election the world couldn't afford to lose, but did. And Europe may be paying the price for a Russian aligned white house inhabited by a symbol for populist wolves.
But I actually can't feel smugly superior to Americans. Because Trump isn't an American phenomenon but a European one. Trump is the exact same breed of Populist that has been infecting Europe for over a decade now. If anything we infected you.
Though the speed Americans accepted this conman and were duped by him certainly is unique and kinda damming. It at least took a long time before populist wolves became acceptable in Europe.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:47 am

I am so in shock about this whole thing!
The next four years are likely to be the diciest in recent history.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by 31acujoker » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:25 pm

So you're telling me that out of 300,000,000 people.....
This is the guy you all chose?!
"A thing is not beautiful because it lasts"
- The Vision

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Oohmynameisblue » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:41 pm

I think turnout was key. Like in Brexit more people definitely wanted Trump than definitely wanted Hillary, so now a lot of people who hated both but hated Trump more didn't vote but are now complaining.
Here's how close it go at in Florida at one point. 115 votes. (After that he pulled forward by like a million).

Attachments

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Ozone0530 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:04 pm

Poor whites were tired of being ignored/villified by the left as being uneducated, unenlightened hicks. Despite what might have been said, Trump went to those places and gave the appearance of caring about their issues. His bombast could resonate with a group of people who have been belittled, marginalized and made fun of by the elite left.
Hillary on the other hand assumed the famed "Blue Wall" of the old mid-west, Rust-Belt states, would, just like before, vote for her. So she ignored them and instead went to states which might have seemed more important. I certainly don't agree with his statements, but I can definitely empathize with the voting block that came out in drastic support of him (poor, working class white).
Just my .02

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Sealherlips » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:50 pm

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by wataru14 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:55 pm

What happened is the Democratic Party sabotaged itself. The coronation of Hillary Clinton was ordained by party insiders when she conceded to Obama in the 2008 primary. She was told that if she stepped aside then, that she would be the nominee in 2016, full stop. It doesn't matter that she is despised and mistrusted by a huge portion of the people. The DNC screwed around with the primary process because they owed her, sacrificing the person would could have beaten Trump and prevented this insanity. And look what happened. The Democratic Party had its head so far up its own ass they basically handed the whole thing to him.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Chris12 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:21 pm

I'm actually not sure Bernie would have done any better. He would do much better in Europe but Americans consider ''socialist'' to be a dirty word. I heard he's an Atheist too which is another dirty word.
Perhaps he would have done better under hardcore democrats but would he be able to win over the swing voters?
I also wouldn't say the Democrats ''handed it'' to Trump. The loss doesn't seem to be that big. 47 against 49, if I recall correctly(which I very well might not ) and in a lot of states Trump won by only 1% or so.
Perhaps if just a few more people showed up on one side or stayed at home on the other things would have gone differently. Perhaps if the FBI wouldn't have reopened the investigation mere days before the election and then went ''Nothing to see here, whoops!'' only very short before the voting things would have gone differently.
Sanders hasn't been treated very fair, that much is for sure but whether he would have done better is another discussion.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by wataru14 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:50 pm

Bernie has consistently beaten Trump in pretty much every poll and projection that has been done for over a year. The Dems also were very blase in their campaigning. They counted on Hillary being able to coast along riding the "anyone but Trump" train and it wasn't enough. They were overconfident, they put up a poor candidate, and they half-assed the campaign. With no scandals and the active and aggressive campaigning he did, things would be looking very VERY different today if the DNC didn't decide to play games.
The stakes were too high to put up someone so controversial. The sitting two-term VP was so in awe of Hillary that he decided to not even attempt the primary? Puh-lease. Elizabeth Warren (who Bill Maher got on his knees and begged to run) vehemently rejected the idea immediately without any explanation as to why? They knew what was going down.
The DNC got us into this mess and I hope they take their medicine and learn from the experience. I'm just upset that the rest of us have to suffer for their arrogance.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Chris12 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:30 pm

The logic turned out to be wrong but there is sense to it.
The stakes were to high to put up someone so controversial. That may be exactly why they were so resistant to an open socialist becoming their presidential nominee.
Part on why Clinton is so controversial is her long career in the establishment. That is something that could be sprung into a positive direction, an experienced politician against a clown who doesn't have a clue on what he was doing. Her experience may have been meant to highlight Trump's lack of it.
Clinton being unfit by virtue of this being an election dominated by outsiders is a valid point that I myself mentioned too. But there are also other ways to see that story and being an political insider is bad in the current narrative....but compared to no experience its by no means bad. Next time the world needs to get rid of the idea that the establishment is the true enemy. It should preferably be gone before the election and not during it.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Jay Feely » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:01 pm

we still have checks and balances
You will have to subdue me to restrain me. I been a bad boy so make sure you torture me too with anything but pain.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by drawscore » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:49 pm

Well, if congress had passed a law making me king, . . . . .
The Democrats nominated the one candidate that Donald Trump could beat, and vice versa.
But the Democrats should have seen it coming months ago. First, Trump was drawing many more primary voters than Romney, in 2012, and McCain, in 2008. Next, was likability. Both candidates were below 50% in that respect. Then, there was the FBI director letting her off the hook. Better than 50% of the public thought she should go to trail.
After that, the Wikileaks revelations. They sure as hell didn't help her. And Obamacare premiums going through the roof, wasn't helpful, either.
Trump had a message and an outlook that resonated with the electorate, Clinton's message did not.
Drawscore

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Valimure » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:38 pm

Here's how Trump got elected:
1. DNC rigged the election to put a candidate that was genuinely hated by some people in the party. Putting her up with Obama years ago should have been a clue... Yet they forced her up anyway.
2. Trump appealed to the uneducated country hicks by spewing uneducated hick bullshit. He blamed all our problems on other races and religions. He appealed to these people's fear of those that are different than them.
3. Majority of left-leaning people thought Trump was a joke, and so either thought it was safe to vote 3rd party or didn't show up to vote at all. Polls had Hillary so far ahead that people thought "It's okay, there's no way Trump can happen."
4. Trump happened.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by SolidSnickerdoodle » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:03 pm

Now that the posting has slowed down a bit, I thought I'd say something. Being 18, this was my first presidential election. All things considered, it was a pretty shitty one to lead off with. But if I had to pick one good thing out of this whole mess it would be the fact that it made me hate everyone.
Sounds crappy when you put it that way, but what I mean is that because this election was so divisive and the nominees were so terrible it made me consider all the angles. I've listened to Trump supporters. I've listed to Hillary supporters. I've listened to people who vote for third party. I've listed to people explain why you shouldn't vote for third party. And what I got was this culmination of all these different opinions and political positions which ultimately played into my decision.
For some I imagine this divisiveness only served to solidify their partisan views, to reinforce their hate for the other side. However, for me it demonstrated that no party is entirely pure and just. No party is beyond criticism, and to think so is incredibly short-sighted. I have friends on Facebook who are now telling their classmates and family members "If you voted for Trump, unfriend me now. I have lost all respect for you." One such post I replied to by saying "This is a vast over-simplification. There's a lot of viewpoints to consider here." And she responded by saying, "If you don't agree with me shut up." The next 15 minutes consisted of me restraining myself from typing, "Behold! The tolerant left!" But I ultimately realized that this wasn't going to make things any better.
Regardless, this is the type of person I don't want to turn into. The type of person who only ever votes for one party because I've only ever voted for that one party, and paints those who vote differently than me as terrible people not worthy of respect. And what I hope this election has done for me is set a precedent for future elections where I will make decisions based on research, exposing myself to differing political views, and having an ability to empathize with people without demonizing them.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Kyle » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:40 pm

There's a lot that can be said, and will be said, about this election. But a few things stood out to me.
There has been a growing disillusionment with the federal government for years now. This election has really shown that, both from the Republican and Democrat sides. Bernie Sanders's run at the Democratic nomination showed it can be seen on the left as well. He did pretty well despite the whole Democratic primary system being rigged against him. We could be seeing the start of a major shift in American politics (not likely, but we'll see).
Donald Trump appealed to lower- and middle- working class white voters in "flyover country." This is a group that is usually ignored by Republicans and shown utter contempt by Democrats, and for the first time in a long time, they felt like someone cared. Does Trump care about them? Probably not a bit. But he at least faked it and listened to them.
The Democrats really mishandled this one. It's pretty apparent they anointed Hillary as the next president 8 years ago when she lost to Barack Obama, and not a damn thing was going to stand in the way of that. Except, apparently, the general election. Most Democrats wouldn't even run against her, and except for Sanders, the few who did barely made even a half-hearted attempt at it. I can't lie, there's a big part of me that's laughing at watching this spectacularly blow up in their faces.
But ultimately, it's years of frustration which got us to this point. I am not a fan of Trump. I think he's a despicable human being and still have little idea what he actually plans to do as president. I'm not sure even he really knows. But I would be lying if I said I didn't understand why he appeals to many people. I couldn't get past the fact he's a narcissistic lunatic, but a lot of people can overlook that because they think he might actually have a chance of doing something, while Hillary Clinton would just give us 4 (or more years of the same crap.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Boocola » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:06 pm

Since Ronald Reagan left office America hasn't been the same, maybe it was because I was understanding how the world politics work or the Berlin wall coming Down marking the end of the cold war, I do know, nuclear weapons makes this world a terrifying place to live.
So your saying what does this has to do with Trump winning the election, nothing the voters voted so deal with it my fellow Americans, like I have to deal with the fact that my ancestor assassinated Abraham Lincoln.
My fellow Americans those words should mean something, now it means nothing. Prove me wrong.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by RiaTheGaggedGirl » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:14 pm

> Boocola wrote:Since Ronald Reagan left office America hasn't been the same, maybe it was because I was understanding how the world politics work or the Berlin wall coming Down marking the end of the cold war, I do know, nuclear weapons makes this world a terrifying place to live.
> So your saying what does this has to do with Trump winning the election, nothing the voters voted so deal with it my fellow Americans, like I have to deal with the fact that my ancestor assassinated Abraham Lincoln.
> My fellow Americans those words should mean something, now it means nothing. Prove me wrong.

Your ancestor was the guy who murdered Abe Lincoln?
message meee
No, I don't have kik.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Boocola » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:19 pm

> RiaTheGaggedGirl wrote:

> > Boocola wrote:Since Ronald Reagan left office America hasn't been the same, maybe it was because I was understanding how the world politics work or the Berlin wall coming Down marking the end of the cold war, I do know, nuclear weapons makes this world a terrifying place to live.
> > So your saying what does this has to do with Trump winning the election, nothing the voters voted so deal with it my fellow Americans, like I have to deal with the fact that my ancestor assassinated Abraham Lincoln.
> > My fellow Americans those words should mean something, now it means nothing. Prove me wrong.

> Your ancestor was the guy who murdered Abe Lincoln?

My last name is Booth, my sister found out.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Mask6184 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:25 pm

> Ozone0530 wrote:Poor whites were tired of being ignored/villified by the left as being uneducated, unenlightened hicks. Despite what might have been said, Trump went to those places and gave the appearance of caring about their issues. His bombast could resonate with a group of people who have been belittled, marginalized and made fun of by the elite left.
> Hillary on the other hand assumed the famed "Blue Wall" of the old mid-west, Rust-Belt states, would, just like before, vote for her. So she ignored them and instead went to states which might have seemed more important. I certainly don't agree with his statements, but I can definitely empathize with the voting block that came out in drastic support of him (poor, working class white).
> Just my .02

I believe you're correct with that assumption. Much like Mitt Romney and the Republican establishment ignoring the minority voting block in 2012 Hillary Clinton and the Democratic establishment ignored the blue collar voting block in the "rust belt", and it really cost them the election. The last two presidential elections show that if you want to win the presidency, you have to campaign and appeal to EVERY voter. If you don't, voting blocks could end up spoiling the election.
As for whether the Bernie Sanders supporters going third party cost her the election, they might have, but the voters in the so-called "rust belt" seem to have the biggest impact on swinging the election to Donald Trump.
The future of the U.S. is a big question mark. I say wait and see what happens. We really don't know what Donald Trump is going to do in office, and although he said a lot of crap, his campaign style felt like a pro-wrestling promo to appeal to the crowd as a face, so it's hard to take what he says seriously.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by RiaTheGaggedGirl » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:26 pm

> Boocola wrote:

> > RiaTheGaggedGirl wrote:

> > > Boocola wrote:Since Ronald Reagan left office America hasn't been the same, maybe it was because I was understanding how the world politics work or the Berlin wall coming Down marking the end of the cold war, I do know, nuclear weapons makes this world a terrifying place to live.
> > > So your saying what does this has to do with Trump winning the election, nothing the voters voted so deal with it my fellow Americans, like I have to deal with the fact that my ancestor assassinated Abraham Lincoln.
> > > My fellow Americans those words should mean something, now it means nothing. Prove me wrong.

> > Your ancestor was the guy who murdered Abe Lincoln?

> My last name is Booth, my sister found out.

I dont think that means your defiantly directly related, unless you looked up some sort of family tree but there could be a lot of others named Booth
Im not to sure though.
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### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:53 pm

> Boocola wrote:My last name is Booth, my sister found out.

If that's your only proof, you're probably not a descendent of John Wilkes Booth himself as he had no known sons and only one daughter, who herself had no sons and two daughters - and therefore any descendants of his would not have Booth's surname. J.W. Booth did have several brothers however (at least some of whom did have sons to carry on his name); it is quite possible you are descended from one of them instead.
There is a theory that Booth escaped pursuit (and that someone else was shot dead in his place at that barn), eventually moved to Texas, and had a family there - but it isn't given wide credence. Some people wanted to try to prove things one way or the other by having the remains of J.W. booth exhumed, but last i heard those efforts failed; in part by objections from J.W's surviving family members (not necessarily direct descendants).
In any case the Booth family descendants are still a well-known and thriving family (particularly in Pennsylvania), so i should think it would be easy enough to find out if you are related to them.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Boocola » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:32 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > Boocola wrote:My last name is Booth, my sister found out.

> If that's your only proof, you're probably not a descendent of John Wilkes Booth himself as he had no known sons and only one daughter, who herself had no sons and two daughters - and therefore any descendants of his would not have Booth's surname. J.W. Booth did have several brothers however (at least some of whom did have sons to carry on his name); it is quite possible you are descended from one of them instead.
> There is a theory that Booth escaped pursuit (and that someone else was shot dead in his place at that barn), eventually moved to Texas, and had a family there - but it isn't given wide credence. Some people wanted to try to prove things one way or the other by having the remains of J.W. booth exhumed, but last i heard those efforts failed; in part by objections from J.W's surviving family members (not necessarily direct descendants).
> In any case the Booth family descendants are still a well-known and thriving family (particularly in Pennsylvania), so i should think it would be easy enough to find out if you are related to them.

Oh thank God. I am going to my sister's house on Saturday, I want to see for myself.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by drawscore » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:52 pm

Actually, Clinton won the popular vote, and by more than half a million votes. But you take a good hard look at an electoral map which shows the counties she won, and you will understand why we have the electoral college system.
Drawscore

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:23 pm

> drawscore wrote:Actually, Clinton won the popular vote, and by more than half a million votes. But you take a good hard look at an electoral map which shows the counties she won, and you will understand why we have the electoral college system.
> Drawscore

Suppose you explain the logic of that last bit to us.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by RiaTheGaggedGirl » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:41 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > drawscore wrote:Actually, Clinton won the popular vote, and by more than half a million votes. But you take a good hard look at an electoral map which shows the counties she won, and you will understand why we have the electoral college system.
> > Drawscore

> Suppose you explain the logic of that last bit to us.

Yeah Clinton technically got more votes but for some reason like she dropped out as she thought she was gonna lose anyway or something she lost.
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### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Mask6184 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:11 pm

> RiaTheGaggedGirl wrote:

> > Jason Toddman wrote:

> > > drawscore wrote:Actually, Clinton won the popular vote, and by more than half a million votes. But you take a good hard look at an electoral map which shows the counties she won, and you will understand why we have the electoral college system.
> > > Drawscore

> > Suppose you explain the logic of that last bit to us.

> Yeah Clinton technically got more votes but for some reason like she dropped out as she thought she was gonna lose anyway or something she lost.

The electoral college system was designed to give areas with a low population, such as rural areas, a say in the selection of the president. If the election is decided solely on popular vote, the campaigns would only focus on the major population centers instead of the rural areas, and thus only the issues of the urban areas would matter more than out in the rural country. Another reason is to prevent tyranny by majority, or a mob mentality where the little guy is ignored.
Pure democracy does favor the majority, but if the minority want a voice and be protected from tyranny by the majority, then a different election system, such as the electoral college is necessary to give the little guy a say in the politics of the nation.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Valimure » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:16 pm

Honestly I am less concerned about Trump and more concerned about how Republicans currently control all three branches of government.
The last time that happened was 1928... And 1929 was the Great Depression.
In all seriousness though, the next four years are going to be very interesting. I see three possible scenarios:
1. Nothing happens. The machine keeps chugging on, nothing major happens and we elect someone else in four years.
2. The economy and our global relations go up in flames. Republicans lose all hope of winning another election for many, many years.
3. World War III happens.
Trump could seriously shake things up. He wasn't bought. He isn't married to the banks and big corporations like Hillary. There's a lot of potential for good... But if people like Mike Pence convince him to sign on to far-right laws and ideas like the "religious protection act", THAT is when this country is going to have another civil war.

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:44 pm

> Mask6184 wrote: The electoral college system was designed to give areas with a low population, such as rural areas, a say in the selection of the president. If the election is decided solely on popular vote, the campaigns would only focus on the major population centers instead of the rural areas, and thus only the issues of the urban areas would matter more than out in the rural country.

I don't know if you've noticed, but that is precisely the prevailing situation right now. Under the current system, the candidates focus on only a handful of what they call "battleground states"... usually the ones that are the most populous or where the population is most evenly divided on the issues. If we chucked the electoral system though, a voter's vote will count just as much regardless of what state he lives in (rather than affecting only the voter's own state) and the candidates will more likely want to court all fifty states. In fact, the electoral system was created in large part for reasons that ceased to matter when the USA finally abolished slavery and gave women as well as blacks the vote. In fact, even white males who owned no land could not vote until 1856, did you know that? So if you rent your home as I do, you'd be flat out of luck!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: How, America? How did it happen?

Post by drawscore » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:49 pm

>>>Suppose you explain the logic of that last bit to us.<<<
Actually, Mask6184 did a pretty good job of it.
One other thing that was designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority, was the filibuster. Originally, it took two thirds (67%) to break a filibuster in the senate. In the 60's, the Democrats leading the senate changed it to three fifths (60%). The Republicans took them to court over it, but the Supreme Court (also controlled by liberals) ruled that the senate had the authority to write its own rules.
Using that logic and court precedent, Harry Reid and the Democrats employed the "nuclear option," and eliminated the filibuster for presidential appointments, except for Supreme Court nominees. Now that the Republicans control the senate, the Democrats want to change it back.
Drawscore