sarobah wrote:mikeybound wrote: On the other hand, why the hell don't abusers just find masochists who would love that stuff?
Unfortunately, for an abuser an unwilling or reluctant victim is part of the appeal.
On the positive side of this discussion, the conclusions of the Stanford prison experiment, which has prejudiced many people’s perceptions of human nature, have been shown to be unreliable, so maybe we humans are not as bad as we’ve been led to believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
All humans, I suspect, have the capacity to do evil. We still are, basically, a predatory animal. But my personal belief is that most people are innately neither good nor bad. It’s the circumstances which arise that shape our character, and how we respond is what defines who we are. But those circumstances include family background and cultural influences, which are hard to resist.
We always look to Nazi Germany as the epitome of all that is evil in the world (and rightly so). However the crime of most of the people was one of omission not of commission… not standing up to the evil before it engulfed them. Some Germans were monsters, but most were not, and that is something we should recognize in all societies. (Would I have the courage of, for example, Sophie Scholl? I hope so, I fear not.)
That is why I am never troubled by the BDSM lifestyle… unless it gets out of hand (the same applies to the car culture, or adventure sports, or whatever). It’s embracing something that is definitely part of our nature. So we should draw the line where we do in any activity… at doing no harm.
In other words, as a degenerate godless atheist, I have just the one moral imperative, which should be universal: “Don’t do to others what you would not have done to yourself.” I think that covers everything we do.
mistofoleese wrote:sarobah wrote:mikeybound wrote: On the other hand, why the hell don't abusers just find masochists who would love that stuff?
Unfortunately, for an abuser an unwilling or reluctant victim is part of the appeal.
On the positive side of this discussion, the conclusions of the Stanford prison experiment, which has prejudiced many people’s perceptions of human nature, have been shown to be unreliable, so maybe we humans are not as bad as we’ve been led to believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
All humans, I suspect, have the capacity to do evil. We still are, basically, a predatory animal. But my personal belief is that most people are innately neither good nor bad. It’s the circumstances which arise that shape our character, and how we respond is what defines who we are. But those circumstances include family background and cultural influences, which are hard to resist.
We always look to Nazi Germany as the epitome of all that is evil in the world (and rightly so). However the crime of most of the people was one of omission not of commission… not standing up to the evil before it engulfed them. Some Germans were monsters, but most were not, and that is something we should recognize in all societies. (Would I have the courage of, for example, Sophie Scholl? I hope so, I fear not.)
That is why I am never troubled by the BDSM lifestyle… unless it gets out of hand (the same applies to the car culture, or adventure sports, or whatever). It’s embracing something that is definitely part of our nature. So we should draw the line where we do in any activity… at doing no harm.
In other words, as a degenerate godless atheist, I have just the one moral imperative, which should be universal: “Don’t do to others what you would not have done to yourself.” I think that covers everything we do.
Sarah is usually the one backing me up , but I must say I this times its reversed I agree with her on this
as for Nazi Germany ALL Germans were Nazi's there are a few that are still looked on with great respect Erwin Rommel and Heinz Gudarian if you ever have the chance to read Infantry attacks OR Panzer leader if you love tactics or History you will enjoy these two books
But not to stray too much from this threads theme
I leave you with this thought Karma can be VERY wicked
sarobah wrote:mistofoleese wrote:OOPS made one mistake meant to say NOT all Germans were Nazis *Note to self Keep CAT out of room when typing !*
Well, I think we can all agree that cats are evil.
Jack Roper wrote:How on Earth did this topic devolve to "cats"? I was going to say that it is amazing the short attention span of humans, but that might be cruel.
sarobah wrote:I take the blame for the thread drift.
I was going to add a comment about short attention spans, but I have forgotten what it was.
sarobah wrote:Jason Toddman wrote:Abu Ghraib anyone? This kind of stuff isn't limited to the bad guys, sad to say. Our own military has done it too.
Jason, I think we should be careful here. As bad as that was, it is not in the same league of evil as the Holocaust or even of Saddam Hussein's treatment of his own people. If we say that one is as bad as the other (and I know you are NOT doing this), that would be a dreadful devaluation of what evil really is.
sarobah wrote:To equate what a people does for their self-preservation, to prevent their children being rounded up and murdered as they were between 1939 and 1945, with what the Israelis are doing to stay alive is no better than saying that… well, maybe the Nazis had a point. Are you claiming that, given the prospect of your own children being killed, you would stand back and allow it to happen, that you would not do exactly what the Israelis are doing?
Jack Roper wrote:Of course, this was a lie created by Zionists, and there is a new book that apparently backs up this history.
sarobah wrote:Jack Roper wrote:Of course, this was a lie created by Zionists, and there is a new book that apparently backs up this history.
I will not participate in this thread any longer. I regret posting here.