
As for me i think its unwise, both for them and the rest of us but its their choice to make...i guess.
Chris12 wrote: Leaving won't gain you anything, its true you have to pay for the Union but the trade benifits and treaty's make up for that. Leave and you still have to trade with Europe(They are your biggest parteners) but in an much more unfavorable position then where you are in now. Also I think it will harm British prestige in the long run, I believe Europe can only stay important globally if they band togheter, any nation that doesn't do that will gradually fade away from the scene.
the other one wrote:Chris12 wrote: Leaving won't gain you anything, its true you have to pay for the Union but the trade benifits and treaty's make up for that. Leave and you still have to trade with Europe(They are your biggest parteners) but in an much more unfavorable position then where you are in now. Also I think it will harm British prestige in the long run, I believe Europe can only stay important globally if they band togheter, any nation that doesn't do that will gradually fade away from the scene.
The EU is a failed construction of some stupid politicians. Only the idea behind, might be good. Your British are so lucky, if you really get asked about leaving the EU. I suppose nearly the people of every member state would like to have this chance to leave the EU. You British had also the great chance to hold your currency. I hope other states will follow.
Chris12 wrote:I'm not sure i agree. The EU bends over backwards to cater to the British and in comparison to what it gives Great Britain recieves much more the other nations and they are free not to join things they don't like or simply veto it. Leaving won't gain you anything, its true you have to pay for the Union but the trade benifits and treaty's make up for that. Leave and you still have to trade with Europe(They are your biggest parteners) but in an much more unfavorable position then where you are in now. Also I think it will harm British prestige in the long run, I believe Europe can only stay important globally if they band togheter, any nation that doesn't do that will gradually fade away from the scene.
That's odd, considering France and Germany are often telling the UK that we can't 'cherry pick' what we want.
Can someone please tell me what advantages the UK gains from being in the EU? Trade doesn't really count since I highly doubt we will leave the Common Market, which has pretty much all the benefits but none of the drawbacks (IE having Brussels telling us who we can and cannot deport from our country).
the other one wrote:Chris12 wrote: Leaving won't gain you anything, its true you have to pay for the Union but the trade benifits and treaty's make up for that. Leave and you still have to trade with Europe(They are your biggest parteners) but in an much more unfavorable position then where you are in now. Also I think it will harm British prestige in the long run, I believe Europe can only stay important globally if they band togheter, any nation that doesn't do that will gradually fade away from the scene.
The EU is a failed construction of some stupid politicians. Only the idea behind, might be good. Your British are so lucky, if you really get asked about leaving the EU. I suppose nearly the people of every member state would like to have this chance to leave the EU. You British had also the great chance to hold your currency. I hope other states will follow.
Chris12 wrote:That's odd, considering France and Germany are often telling the UK that we can't 'cherry pick' what we want.
Indeed they do say that, i wonder whyThe fact it even needs to be said speaks volumes to me. Britain isn't using the Euro nor is it in Shengen. They joined but did so on their terms not ours.
Can someone please tell me what advantages the UK gains from being in the EU? Trade doesn't really count since I highly doubt we will leave the Common Market, which has pretty much all the benefits but none of the drawbacks (IE having Brussels telling us who we can and cannot deport from our country).
Actually trade does count. A Britain out of the Euro would be economically dependent on Europe, but with no say at the negotiating table. But okay, another advantage is Britains standing in the world. A Britain in the EU would have the entire union backing them up in a diplomatic conflict with China or America for example, leave and they most likely won't which means British concerns and interest could be ignored.
mcsproot wrote:
I haven't heard of Shengen, what is it?
Chris12 wrote:I wouldn't call it a failure but it does need some work. Are you from Europe by the way? you post sounds like it.
Not a failure? In your dreams.
The people can take even less influence on politics.
There's almost no democratic legitimation.
The contract of Lisbon reduced the fundamental rights and reestablish the death penalty.
It is centralized, that means too far away from the people to see their need.
Lobbyists in Brussels rule the EU undemocratic.
As for trade, Scotland at least has a large export market of meat products and whiskey to Asia, mostly due to the up and coming middle classes in China. You mention negotiations, I assume you mean things such as quality laws? Wouldn't the UK still have this option as a part of the Common Market?
As for the UK's standing in the world, it at least appears to me that what France and Germany want (particularly Germnay) is what gets done. At least in British media, no other countries really get mentioned in terms of the EU
Also, negotiations outside the EU do occur. The most recent one I was aware of was between Norway and the EU about fishing quotas.
Chris12 wrote:Not a failure? In your dreams.
Has it problem? yes. Has it advantages? yes. Do countries profit from it? Mine certainly does.
Chris12 wrote:The people can take even less influence on politics.
Can...or want? if there is an election of something EU related not many people show up.
Chris12 wrote:There's almost no democratic legitimation.
Can be fixed in time.
Chris12 wrote:The contract of Lisbon reduced the fundamental rights and reestablish the death penalty.
I've yet to notice my right being reduced and i'm not all that opposed to the deathpenalty.
Chris12 wrote:It is centralized, that means too far away from the people to see their need.
Centralized doesn't have to mean bad. Also the countries still largly run themselves.
Chris12 wrote:Lobbyists in Brussels rule the EU undemocratic.
And Lobbyists in Whasington rule the state, what else is new. It does seem less pronoucned her so...kudos?
Chris12 wrote:Germany more then France mostly because they are one of the countries doing well and are motivated for the EU.
What kind of advantages?
Because you got the choose between something bad and something worse.
This can't be fixed. An exception is, when the people in every country are questioned about staying or leaving. But then most would choose to leave.
But you can see it there and also in europe, that many citizens don't feel heard by the government. The government does just what big concerns and banks want them to do.
The most important thing for Germany is to become a sovereign state. So there is no time for EU.
Chris12 wrote:What kind of advantages?
Lets take my country for example. Half of our income comes by trade and half of that half comes from trade with Europe. We get lots of jobs from Europe, the one coin boosts trading efficiancy, economic protection isn't allowed against our products giving us an advantage on the market and the open borders are pretty good for trading as well. With our economy depending on Europe so much every economic advantage it brings is good for our economy.
Chris12 wrote:Because you got the choose between something bad and something worse.
I'd argue that attitude isn't helping things at all. If you don't vote you have no right to say your voice isn't heard and lets be honest, president of the EU and all the rest are little more then a formality at the moment. The leaders of each country decide most things either behind or before the screen and those are people you do elect.
Chris12 wrote:This can't be fixed. An exception is, when the people in every country are questioned about staying or leaving. But then most would choose to leave.
Perhaps but i'd say i wouldn't dissagree at all with the goverment ignoring those people. If what the people want goes against with whats good for the nation they should be ignored no matter their numbers.
Chris12 wrote:But you can see it there and also in europe, that many citizens don't feel heard by the government. The government does just what big concerns and banks want them to do.
Or just whats good for the nations. I don't find it hard to believe that those people knowing how much harm an exit out of the EU would be economicly are doing everything they can to prevent such a thing. I'm not all that Pro Europe but i do recognise the cost of leaving far outweight the cost of staying.
Chris12 wrote:The most important thing for Germany is to become a sovereign state. So there is no time for EU.
I don't really understand what you mean by that. How isn't Germany a sovereign state?