GOP and abortion

Postby Jack Roper » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:23 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 19201.html

The American Republican Party is a real backward bunch. Take a look at this rouge's gallery of Republicans who would not even allow an abortion in the event of a rape or incest.
Amazing!

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby drawscore » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:28 pm

Yeah, there are some over the top lunatics on the right, just as there are batshit crazy people on the left.

Drawscore

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby Kyle » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:32 pm

I never understood how incest always got thrown in with rape, as if they are the same thing.

But more on topic, I don't really understand why people get in an uproar over the Republicans and their abortion stances. They make a big deal about it every election, but when it comes down to it they'll do what most of them have done for the 39 years since Roe v. Wade was handed down: absolutely nothing. They use it as an issue to get many Republicans, and even some of the pro-life Democrats, on their side thinking they might do something about it, and the Democrats try to fire up their pro-choice base (and try to appeal to the pro-choice Republicans in the process) and say the Republicans are waging a war on women, which couldn't be further from the truth, considering women are considered a special voting class who have to be pandered to (when's the last time anyone talked about men voting without comparing them to women?). Sure, once in a while someone on a state level will try to pull something off, which usually gets shot down by voters, or if not them, the courts, but overall the picture is more or less the same now as it was in 1973. The only significant change is abortions are now more heavily restricted late in pregnancies, which doesn't prevent very many anyway.

I can pretty much tell you how this will all play out: it'll be a big election issue for many people, then the elections will come, and for the next 4 years, there'll be one or two rogue Republicans who'll try to bring up something in Congress which will never get serious traction, and that will be it. It's been happening more or less that way for a lot longer than I've been voting, probably longer than I've been alive. Until I see something different, I won't believe it will change. It's one of the many things politicians like to run their mouths off about, but with few exceptions, don't really have the guts to actually do something about.

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby Jack Roper » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:15 am

Making abortion completely illegal will only create illegal abortion mills--and women and girls will surely die. Yes, politicians like to talk out of both sides of their mouths and Roe v Wade is still the law of the land, but resistance to anti-abortion fanatics is the only thing maintaining "safe, legal and rare" abortions (as Bill Clinton famously phrased it).

Romney appears to be a complete hypocite on this issue, as he is on so many others, but I would not put it past him to nominate a few more Clarence Thomas' and Antonina Scalias, to placate his new-found right-wing base. As Grover Norquist said, he only needs a warm hand with ten fingers to sign whatever a conservative congress proposes. That would be Mitt Romney, Mr. Etch-A-Sketch.

Here is a great summation of currrent Republican thinking on the abortion question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/opini ... ef=general

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:11 pm

Just one of the many reasons I stopped voting Republican in the 1980s. I grew less conservative after I left the military and quit going to church (both of which greatly foster conservatism) and returned to studying science (which fosters the opposite), while the GOP became ever more conservative and (unsurprisingly to me now) anti-science. The centrist ideals of the GOP of a century ago have long been abandoned it seems to me.
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Re: GOP and abortion

Postby Kyle » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:27 pm

The only way abortion will be made illegal is if the courts (namely, the Supreme Court) overturns it. They don't often go against precedent so that's a stretch, even with a conservative court, but for this issue it might happen. It might get heavily regulated at the state level but that's about it without the Supreme Court reversing its stance.

"Safe, legal, and rare" has led to safe and legal abortions, I guess. Two out of three ain't bad, as the Meat Loaf song goes.

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby TUfriend » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:16 pm

I am anti abortion, but I don't think it should be outlawed. If you willingly have sex and the baby will be healthy,I've with the consequences. But, I don't know every circumstance, no one does, so it would be silly to make it impossible to have an abortion. So I support abortion be available to the public, but not federal funding of abortion. I would not encourage anyone to get an abortion however.
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Re: GOP and abortion

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:32 pm

Contraceptives would be far better, cheaper and safer than abortions, but too many people are against that common-sense procedure too!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby trammel » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:43 pm

Should the killing of a child of rape or incest in the Newtown, Connecticutt school be legal? Why not? If a pre-born human is a person, there is no material difference. If it is moral to kill the child at 9 months gestation, then what the killer in Newtown did was moral, if you are to be consistent. By the way, I vote that both are immoral!

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby KennyBoy » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:35 pm

What many people forget to take into account when considering abortion is the mother and family. If you are a believer of quality of life over sanctity of life then you will generally be in favour of abortion. When judging abortion many people do not actually look at the effect of giving birth to the child on the mother, in a rapists child case then it would severely effect her mental health. After all even Roman Catholics occasionally accept abortion is the 'lesser of two evils' although they pretend otherwise. To say abortion is wrong (or right) and leave it at that is completely (and immoraly) wrong. The right course of action varies from person to person, case to case. It is a unique case EVERY time!
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby trammel » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:05 am

KennyBoy wrote:What many people forget to take into account when considering abortion is the mother and family. If you are a believer of quality of life over sanctity of life then you will generally be in favour of abortion. When judging abortion many people do not actually look at the effect of giving birth to the child on the mother, in a rapists child case then it would severely effect her mental health. After all even Roman Catholics occasionally accept abortion is the 'lesser of two evils' although they pretend otherwise. To say abortion is wrong (or right) and leave it at that is completely (and immoraly) wrong. The right course of action varies from person to person, case to case. It is a unique case EVERY time!


Quality of life over sanctity of life? Really? How do you determine that exactly? For example, my daughter was born into poverty in communist China, left in a cardboard box, spent 10 months in an orphanage, then was adopted by us. Sounds to me like you think she should have been killed. I don't.

Either a person has an inherent right to life or they don't. There can be no grey area. Well, I guess there is, but a world in which it is OK to kill babies is a world in which it is OK to shoot up schools. I prefer life.

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby trammel » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:07 am

BTW, there are people lined up out the door wanting to adopt. It is made unnecessarily costly and complicated. Abortion would be unnecessary if we worked as hard to remove adoption roadblocks and provide funding assistance to those who otherwise sould not afford to adopt.

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby KennyBoy » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:37 pm

@trammel Might I point out that I said 'If' I never said I chose Quality over Sanctity but killing the child?? That doesn't come into it at all. Abortion is before the child is born and generally before brain patterns can be detected. There is no arguing that once they have been born it is murder, no one can disagree on that but the grey area exists because of a difference in views, when the fetus is a person, ensoulment ect.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Re: GOP and abortion

Postby trammel » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:36 pm

KennyBoy wrote:@trammel Might I point out that I said 'If' I never said I chose Quality over Sanctity but killing the child?? That doesn't come into it at all. Abortion is before the child is born and generally before brain patterns can be detected. There is no arguing that once they have been born it is murder, no one can disagree on that but the grey area exists because of a difference in views, when the fetus is a person, ensoulment ect.


Heartbeat can be detected at about 6 weeks, and brainwaves shortly thereafter.