mikeybound wrote:Are you really making this argument? So called pro-choicers ignore the fact that women already made a choice in most cases. Weather it's a planned pregnancy they changed their minds on or an accident, they had sex and didn't take the right precautions. Or they got that less than 1% chance of bad luck where the pill and condom failed.
As for rapists, there're self defense options, lethal and non lethal weapons, situational awareness, risk avoidance (protip, don't walk through Central Park at night). In the worst case scenario, an abortion based on the actions of another person just seems downright immoral. The fetus isn't it's father, and it was my understanding that holding people responsible for their wins was wrong. Can we honestly not emotionally distance two individuals from each other? Or at least intellectually.
The Irish example actually isn't good because the screw up wasn't with the law. The doctors screwed up, and if they properly diagnosed things than an abortion would've been perfectly acceptable by their laws. It's the kind of mistake mothers can make. The failing was human, not legal.
As for the father's rights, are we forgetting how it's his child? Even if he doesn't have to bear it, he's the one who has to go through the terrible twos. A pregnancy isn't the worst thing someone can God through. Even though it's impossible for me to experience it, there're objectivly worse things to go through for someone.
My main point is, there're so many preventive measures available, the more appropriate question seems to be why people even need them.
Excuse me for a moment, but I really cannot believe that you're basically saying 'if a woman can't fight off her rapist it's her problem she became pregnant'. Really? Is that really your train of thought, or are you trying to play devil's advocate with any argument you can think of? Having a child is not some everyday task alongside doing the laundry and buying groceries. It's 9 months of a complicated medical condition followed by 20 years of upbringing. If a woman doesn't want a child, gets raped, then becomes pregnant, you're saying it's her fault because she wasn't on the pill just in case she got raped?
I can certainly see your point about that it isn't the fault of the child that it was conceived by rape. But I think in this case, the right of the mother-to-be to be able to choose the option to abort the pregnancy should take precedence. Rape is already a life changing event, like any major physical or mental trauma. Even taking out the responsibilities of parenthood, even looking at the child might trigger powerful flashbacks. Add on pre/post-natal depression and you have a woman barely able to take care of herself, nevermind an infant that requires constant care and attention. Yes, giving the child up for adoption is still an option, but personally I would hate to be that person when they find out their father is a rapist who doesn't know they exist and their mother doesn't want to acknowledge they exist.
But on the topic of rape, I don't know how much experience you've had with rape survivors, but I'm going to assume none for this. A friend of mine was raped three times by the same person in one night. Did she forget to pack a weapon with her (also, in the UK, it's illegal to carry any kind of weapon)? Did she walk through a back alley in the middle of the night? Was she wearing really slutty clothes? Was she passed out drunk? None of the above. She was wearing pyjamas, stone cold sober, staying the night with a guy she thought was a close friend. Thankfully for her, she didn't become pregnant. But not all rapes are the stereotypical ones of someone being grabbed in the park at night and raped in the bushes.
Honestly at this point, I could go onto a whole other argument about rape and societal views on it. But I'll just sum it up as saying, the victim is never at fault. It doesn't matter if they're nude and passed out drunk, you simply don't try and have sex with people in that situation.
I still stand by my Irish example. Yes, the doctors got it wrong and yes, if they had correctly diagnosed the problem she would have had an abortion. The fact still remains, if abortions were freely legal, she could have had one.
Also, I am not forgetting the rights of the father here. However, in a situation where the mother wants an abortion and the father does not, somebody has to not get their way. When the rights of one begin to impede on the rights of another, it gets complicated.
And yes, prevention is better than cure. But even if you take all of the precautions, you can still fall ill (no, I'm not calling pregnancy an illness). You can keep fit and healthy, wash your hands when you blow your nose, eat a healthy diet, do your best to avoid germ contact, but you can still get ill. The same goes with pregnancy. I don't know about you, but I doubt many people use multiple forms of contraception at a time. I would imagine most use just one. Just a condom, or just the pill, or just an implant etc.
You do also seem to be basing a lot of your argument on the pregnancy itself and ignoring other factors.
23 year old guy from the UK.
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