Age Limit in Stories

Postby Sealherlips » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:30 am

Why is there an age limit on story characters exactly? Legally, there's nothing against literary fiction regarding minors and sexual conduct. Also, what about the fact that different countries have different ages for what is an adult?

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby RiaTheGaggedGirl » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:44 am

Also I don't understand, why can't minors tie up adults but adults can tie up minors?
message meee :bound:

No, I don't have kik.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Naughty boy » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:51 am

Sealherlips wrote:Why is there an age limit on story characters exactly? Legally, there's nothing against literary fiction regarding minors and sexual conduct. Also, what about the fact that different countries have different ages for what is an adult?


Agree

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby chadmc90 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am

As far as I understand, the restriction is on mixing minors with adults. The rules of the board are that only minors can tie up minors and adults tie up adults. This is to prevent stories that involve 30 year old adults tying up 8 year old children. I do agree there are some grey areas, but stories like that seem to attract unwanted attention to the forum. Remember there are 'saints' watching over us and wouldn't be below getting the site into criminal trouble. The admins gotta keep it safe.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Driverman » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:41 pm

To piggyback on Chadmc90, this is a privately run site, so the admins and site owners can make whatever rules they want. Instead of questioning them, why not just abide by them and enjoy your time here, or if you prefer a different set of rules, find a site that caters to what you are looking for.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:49 pm

Sealherlips wrote:Why is there an age limit on story characters exactly? Legally, there's nothing against literary fiction regarding minors and sexual conduct. Also, what about the fact that different countries have different ages for what is an adult?

You bring up a good point, even though I believe someone else already asked the same question just recently, and I'll try to give a straight answer.
When I began here in 2010, the rules here were indeed very lax on this subject. I myself wrote numerous stories about teenaged boys not only tying up one another but also often having (not always 100% consensual) sexual contacts as well. There were others were wrote stories involving adult captors and young children; also often sexual contacts and/or graphic forms of torment such as breath control or sensory deprivation.
But in recent years there have been a number of real life horror stories involving actual minors being found kept in some captivity and abused / neglected in various way (often by their own parents or guardians). As these became more numerous and widespread in the way such things do over the Internet, there came a steadily growing backlash against stories (even fictional ones) depicting anything that looked even remotely similar. A writer who developed a mostly sweet and innocent set of stories called Niklas and Friends received a huge backlash because a (very) few pictures showed some rear or frontal nudity of prepubescent boys and an occasional tie-up. It was as innocent as the swimming scene in one of the chapters in Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn, but some would-be moral-do-gooders trolled his site so badly that he lost heart and ended his series a number of years ago.
Well,this site not generally being a visual medium wasn't on their radar at the time, but steadily it has come to be one. We've been trolled a few times, and though we've dealt with all of the open ones the trolling was likely only to get worse.
Until about three years ago this site had a foreign server, and so could afford some lax rules about what was or was not allowable. But about three years ago Zanev shifted this site to an American server (you'll have to ask him why; I have no idea), but American servers have more restrictions than most foreign ones do, and as a result we have had to be stricter about what we allow here in order to not have this entire site shut down on us without warning! It's as simple as that.
We grandfathered older stories (including mine) depicting more explicit actions but cannot allow posting of new ones that violate the new rules. It's not entirely our choice; it's just the way things have to be.
Afaik there are still no rules about sexual contacts between minors; if not described too graphically at least. Otherwise my old stories would likely have had to be purged from here; as is I have had to keep left out most of the drawings I had made for them as a few were a tad explicit; little different from Shota or Yaoi. But stories of sexual contact between minors and adults have had to be banned because of the growing backlash and the very real possibility that such stories miht actually become outlawed. In fact I believe they already are in some places In Europe and elsewhere. And the last thing we want is for anyone to face criminal charges of uploading 'porn' that they got from this site! In part because the first thing that would happen would be that this site would get shut down no questions asked and all of us helping to run it get hit with some BS charges too.
Times have changed; and not all for the good. Though I of course applaud the moral outrage against real-life forced tie-ups of minors, sometimes the moral Puritans just don't understand where to draw the line. So we have to do it ourselves proactively to keep the howling hate mobs at bay. Remember, TUGs is still a minority taste, and people often equate Children + TUGs = Child Porn!
We don't want people to get that perception. It would spell this entire site's doom if this happened.
Am I being melodramatic? Maybe. I don't write essays with the same skill i like to think I have with writing fiction. But I also think it's true.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:51 pm

RiaTheGaggedGirl wrote:Also I don't understand, why can't minors tie up adults but adults can tie up minors?

Where did you get the impression that we allow stories of adults tying up minors? We used to allow both, that is true. But though we have grandfathered in older stories depicting either before public backlash against such things got bad, we currently do not allow new stories depicting either.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby RiaTheGaggedGirl » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:55 pm

Jason Toddman wrote:
RiaTheGaggedGirl wrote:Also I don't understand, why can't minors tie up adults but adults can tie up minors?

Where did you get the impression that we allow stories of adults tying up minors? We used to allow both, that is true. But though we have grandfathered in older stories depicting either before public backlash against such things got bad, we currently do not allow new stories depicting either.

Oh sorry, I saw someone else's post on another thread a while ago with the same question so I was just curious.
message meee :bound:

No, I don't have kik.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:05 pm

No worries. I have no problems whatever in answering honest concerns from honest people. It helps keep this site clean and alive.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Naughty boy » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:27 pm

Thank you for clarifying

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby chadmc90 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:56 pm

Oh yea, moving the servers to the US would cause issues too. I forgot about that.

But good job on explaining it Jason. We just all need to be more conscious of what we post here because as I said, the 'saints' are watching and would love to jump at any bit of controversial piece of literature. Sad really.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Sealherlips » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:15 pm

chadmc90 wrote:As far as I understand, the restriction is on mixing minors with adults. The rules of the board are that only minors can tie up minors and adults tie up adults. This is to prevent stories that involve 30 year old adults tying up 8 year old children. I do agree there are some grey areas, but stories like that seem to attract unwanted attention to the forum. Remember there are 'saints' watching over us and wouldn't be below getting the site into criminal trouble. The admins gotta keep it safe.


Making stories about that isn't a crime.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby chadmc90 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:43 pm

Sealherlips wrote:
chadmc90 wrote:As far as I understand, the restriction is on mixing minors with adults. The rules of the board are that only minors can tie up minors and adults tie up adults. This is to prevent stories that involve 30 year old adults tying up 8 year old children. I do agree there are some grey areas, but stories like that seem to attract unwanted attention to the forum. Remember there are 'saints' watching over us and wouldn't be below getting the site into criminal trouble. The admins gotta keep it safe.


Making stories about that isn't a crime.


Maybe "criminal" isn't the word but as Jason said people treat it as badly as child abuse.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:26 pm

Sealherlips wrote:
chadmc90 wrote:As far as I understand, the restriction is on mixing minors with adults. The rules of the board are that only minors can tie up minors and adults tie up adults. This is to prevent stories that involve 30 year old adults tying up 8 year old children. I do agree there are some grey areas, but stories like that seem to attract unwanted attention to the forum. Remember there are 'saints' watching over us and wouldn't be below getting the site into criminal trouble. The admins gotta keep it safe.


Making stories about that isn't a crime.

You are quite correct... it is not a crime.
At the moment.
If some people had their way though it would be and eventually it just may be. I hope not, but these are weird times. But in the meantime certain people out there don't give two figs about the law. All they care about is their own often close-minded sense of morality, and if something (even mere swear words) outrage their delicate sensibilities, they can make life hell for the rest of us. As is for instance we're dealing with a spamming epidemic the likes of which you've never seen and hopefully have not been seeing because we mods have been doing our best to nip it in the bud as soon as we find it.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby drawscore » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:06 am

I don't think it's the act of an adult tying up a child or teen, but rather the context in which it is presented. I can't count the number of times I have seen a child actor get kidnapped, stumble into an outlaw's hideout, or get captured by Indians, and get tied up for his trouble by an adult kidnapper, outlaw, or Indian. Nobody bats an eye over it, not even the "saints." (I've even seen a few TV shows where kids tied adults after being told to do so by an "authority figure." But only on rare occasions.) I recall an old "B western," where the sheriff had just rescued a boy from an outlaw, and tossed the kid a pair of handcuffs. "Lock him up!" the sheriff said, and the kid's eyes got big, he flashed a huge grin, and locked the cuffs on the outlaw.

I also have a panel from a "Daniel Boone" comic, where 10-year-old Israel Boone is being chased by an older Indian. Israel, being the resourceful lad that he is, knocked his pursuer unconscious with a tree branch, and the result was:

624a-Israel.jpg


In the single panel, you can't really tell if the Indian is 16 or 26 (although the Indian's size and build, compared with Israel, might suggest an adult), but is this porn? Is it inappropriate? Not hardly. Not in a comic book marketed to kids. The only questionable thing about this comic panel, is that it appears that Israel is thinking out of his ass. Raising the "information strip" and the thought cloud, might have solved that minor faux pas.

The picture or image of a child or teen tied up, or tying an adult, is not, in and of itself, pornographic. If it was, there could be no TV shows or movies featuring a plot line where the kid star is captured by Indians, outlaws, or kidnappers, or is told to restrain his previous captors. It is the context in which it is presented, that keeps it on this side of the line, or pushes it over the line into kiddy porn.

Drawscore
Last edited by drawscore on Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:04 am, edited 6 times in total.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Sealherlips » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:16 am

Oops I should have specified I meant fictional stories.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Naughty boy » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:18 am

Compelling argument DS. And I agreed with you.

But at the end of the day (hate that phrase).....it is a private website that we sign up to be in. We agree with the rules they set up.

I don't walk into someone else's house as a guest and start going through their fridge and start speaking what is on my mind.

Words themselves are not illegal.
Then again it is someone else's house.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby drawscore » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:34 am

Naughty boy wrote:Compelling argument DS. And I agreed with you.

But at the end of the day (hate that phrase).....it is a private website that we sign up to be in. We agree with the rules they set up.

I don't walk into someone else's house as a guest and start going through their fridge and start speaking what is on my mind.

Words themselves are not illegal.
Then again it is someone else's house.



Agreed that it is Zanev's site, and he can run it however he chooses to do so, But he is intelligent, and so are the people he has chosen as moderators. They all have a pretty good idea of what imagery and words, relating stories fictional or real, are inappropriate, and the difference between what is acceptable, and what is not.

My own personal standards are quite high, and there are images on the board that I probably would not have let stand, had I been a mod. Jason Toddman, despite our many political disagreements, can verify that, in the past, I have sent up "caution" flags about some images I thought crossed the line, or came really close to crossing it. Some got pulled. Some were allowed to stand.

Drawscore

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Naughty boy » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:51 am

I agree

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:10 am

Sealherlips wrote:Oops I should have specified I meant fictional stories.

No worries. I assumed that this was what you meant anyway.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:12 am

drawscore wrote: My own personal standards are quite high, and there are images on the board that I probably would not have let stand, had I been a mod. Jason Toddman, despite our many political disagreements, can verify that, in the past, I have sent up "caution" flags about some images I thought crossed the line, or came really close to crossing it. Some got pulled. Some were allowed to stand.

Drawscore

Quite true. What DS politely didn't mention was that some of those images he was concerned about were drawn by me! :geek:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby ebascoray » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:39 pm

Very well explained, Mr. Toddman. Thanks for the contribution of the explanation.

Ebascoray

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Sealherlips » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:23 pm

Is there any chance of the age limit ever being lowered? Also, what constitutes as a minor on this board? Age of consent varies by country.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby drawscore » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:22 pm

Since the board is based in the US, US standards would apply, or, at least, that's my guess. The US standard, is minors are 17 and younger.

Drawscore

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Sealherlips » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:51 am

In the majority of states it's 16. And I thought it was based in the UK.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby drawscore » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:19 am

Well, 12 and 13 years olds have been charged as adults for crimes they have committed. But the rule of thumb, is still 17 or younger, is a minor. And even if it is not, is is better to err on the side of caution.

Drawscore.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Plueschbabycd » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:41 pm

Hallo in Germany get everybody over 14 problems how want person under 14 tied up and psychic and mental punishment are strictly forbidden from every one on children.
"Don“t dream it, be it." Dr. Frank N. Furter in Rocky Horror Picture Show

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Fesselfan » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:20 am

Legally, there's nothing against literary fiction regarding minors and sexual conduct


I'd be carefull about such statements, as this may be heavily dependend on where you are. Even if a message board (I am making up an example here) is located in god-knows where (like a small pacific state), in some countries it counts where the posting person sits, not where the board is located (this is, for example, often used in China to get government critics into jail).

Another example...in Germany, exactly what you describe is illegal. Here, considering sexual acts, the literal display of things which would be illegal if done in reality is also illegal. I dont know the exact translation of the fact, its called "Anscheinspornographie", mabye "looks like porn" ;)
Technically, a model who is over 21 but looks like 14 would not be allowed to act as porn model here.

I think that our mods have a good common sense...just wanted to remind that juristication, especially when it comes to the international sphere of the internet, hardly has a lot in common with "common sense"

Cheers

FF
There are 10 kind of people in the world.
Those who understand binary numeral system, and those who don't.

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Sealherlips » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:10 am

Offensive, xenophobic remark removed
Xtc

Re: Age Limit in Stories

Postby Sealherlips » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:11 am

Once more. Xenophobic remark removed.

Warning given.
Xtc