## The Paranormal

Post by dreadnaught3200 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:15 pm

Ghoolies and Ghosties and things that go bump in the night! Oh yeah!
Hey guys, so I was watching TV this afternoon and I came across one of a multitude of documentaries that have been made, debating the existence of ghosts. Now, I should say that I'm a natural skeptic, my knee jerk reaction to hearing outlandish things is to be skeptical of them. That being said, I've always had a strange fascination with the paranormal. And when I say paranormal I mean ghosts and spirits and things like that. And I have met many people in my lifetime, (Interestingly both religious and not, though this thread isn't about religion) who believe in these things, all of whom are smart, rational individuals.
So... What do you guys think? Are ghosts and demons and orbs real? Are they the product of our imaginations? Have you had any paranormal experiences you'd like to share?
There's a permanent tension in music isn't there? On one hand you have three chords, you know, four four and three chords. Then there's the people like me, who say "Well, why don't we add a fourth chord and put it in five four?" - Bill Bruford

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by ducttapeboy001 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:41 am

I am confused about them, just like about aliens..
I would fall into the side where they say paranormals exist...
never had an experience though
I love reading and watching stuff which are paranormal based
it makes me GLaD, Im not you
And believe me Im still alive
Im doing TUGs and Im still alive.
I feel fantastic and Im stilll alive
You'd be EVIL if you're GLaD

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by haloguy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:07 am

I think it is impoasible to proove or sidproove the existence of the paranormal, and the same with god, you just cannot proove the existnance

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Fesselfan » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:20 am

The martian sitting beside me claims that ghosts don't exist.
Napoleon Bonaparte- sitting on my other side- agrees.
Cheers
FF
There are 10 kind of people in the world.
Those who understand binary numeral system, and those who don't.

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by KP Presents » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:08 am

> haloguy wrote:I think it is impoasible to proove or sidproove the existence of the paranormal, and the same with god, you just cannot proove the existnance

Not scientifically, no - but that's another story.
I have had some experience with the paranormal when I was a young boy - I'm not going to go into the details unless people ask, but it proved to me Ouija boards are not a toy or something you muck about with. Besides, I believe in God and his work on the earth thorugh the Holy Spirit, so I have to acknowledge there is a spirit world of some type - both good and bad.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:08 pm

For the most part I am skeptical about the supernatural. However...
When I was a boy about 10 years old, My brother and I and a friend of his midway in age between the two of us (and a frequent TUG buddy of ours) used a Ouija boy at his friend's house one evening and asked it about the future. In particular, we asked it to what age my brother would live - it said 73. He died at the age of 22 - in 1973. We also asked about my dad; it said 70. He died at age 45; in 1970. For our friend it said 45.
It said for me 77 - so after my brother and dad died when they did I figured I was a goner when 1977 rolled around. Obviously I am still here - but I can't help but wonder if maybe whatever spirit there was gave my age rather than the year this time. Wish I remembered precisely how I asked the question! Guess I'll find out when I'm 77!
As for my friend he is still around too and is older than 45 now - so maybe 2045? By then he'd be just over 90, so that's possible I suppose.
It's hard to be completely doubtful because of when my brother and dad died; just a bizarre coincidence maybe, but still...
Last edited by Jason Toddman on Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by dreadnaught3200 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:13 pm

That's actually a really cool story Jason hehe. Cause I'm like you for the most part I can't say I really believe in it. But every now and again you hear stories like that, that are just a little too convincing to be coincidence. It's interesting, though somehow I doubt we'll ever really have an answer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9lme ... onclusions
This is one of the weirdest paranormal stories I have come across. And normally I would gravitate to the side of the skeptics, but in this case (And I think the Wikipedia article is somewhat biased) I don't think the skeptic's argument holds up. Considering they placed blame on an artist who died before the faces stopped appearing.
Interesting isn't it? hehe
There's a permanent tension in music isn't there? On one hand you have three chords, you know, four four and three chords. Then there's the people like me, who say "Well, why don't we add a fourth chord and put it in five four?" - Bill Bruford

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by ducttapeboy001 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:48 pm

Jason you used a ouija board ??
I heard its some evil game, I heard that demons and spirits would contact you, not the good ones but the evil ones.
it makes me GLaD, Im not you
And believe me Im still alive
Im doing TUGs and Im still alive.
I feel fantastic and Im stilll alive
You'd be EVIL if you're GLaD

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Boundgal08 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:05 am

> ducttapeboy001 wrote:Jason you used a ouija board ??
> I heard its some evil game, I heard that demons and spirits would contact you, not the good ones but the evil ones.

I've played one of them, I don't plan on doing it again, it freaked me out.... BIG TIME!
BOUNDGIRL!
Probably the kinkiest woman you will ever meet!
I am a switch, I like to put a man in ropes and also have a man put me in ropes!
I am the 'Queen of bondage'

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:47 am

> ducttapeboy001 wrote:Jason you used a ouija board ??
> I heard its some evil game, I heard that demons and spirits would contact you, not the good ones but the evil ones.

Gimme break! I waas only ten years old. And it was my brother's idea not mine.
Considering he died as a young man, you may have a point about the evilness part of it.
Later my mom tried to use it (along with my brother and I) to contact dad's spirit after he died. Unless she or Ike were screwing around (which i seriously doubt, at least consciously) SOMETHING contacted us!!!! And it knew things about me which dad would have known but that Mom or Ike would NOT have (unless dad broke his promise about never telling)! We didn't ask any questions about the future or anything though.
I tried it again later in college with David (who was my roommate at the time) but the results there WERE pure hokum; for instance, it predicted I would die at the age of 150 somewhere around Pluto - undoubtedly a joke on David's part. My own life has had its bad moments too, but I don't blame that on the innocent use of a Ouija Board by a 10-year-old...
Anyway, I'm with Boundgal on this one - those earlier experiences freaked ME out too but especially the FIRST one.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by ducttapeboy001 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:57 pm

After hearing so many stories about that thing, I dont want to even see it in real life..
it makes me GLaD, Im not you
And believe me Im still alive
Im doing TUGs and Im still alive.
I feel fantastic and Im stilll alive
You'd be EVIL if you're GLaD

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:15 pm

> cricks5 wrote:Okay took a while to remember this story I heard over ten years ago but please bear with me because it may change certain views on this forum topic.
> On Halloween Night, 1993, I had an uncle and cousin both drown while fishing in their canoe in the Snake River in Idaho. Their bodies were not found until the next day. Apparently they were caught in a whirlpool from where a canal entered the river. Both of them were excellent swimmers and had been in the Scouting program for many years at this time. They also had life preservers on too. My uncle tried to get my cousin to save himself, but the current was so strong that it ripped off both of their life preservers.
> At the funeral, there was a massive outpouring of grief because both were greatly loved. My grandmother was so moved that she gave up her own prearranged burial ground for the use of their two caskets. Also the Scouting Program built a chapel at one of their camps to honor their memory.
> Now on to the paranormal part of my story. 2 years later I was living in Barnwell, Alberta, Canada with my mom and my siblings. One evening everyone was out except for my stepfather who I will refuse to name for personal reasons of my own. When the whole family was back again, he told us a scary experience that happened while he was there by himself. My drowned cousin appeared before him in a type of vision and told him that a member of our family would soon die. At the time in question and still afterwards, my entire family is LDS and none of us drink or smoke or take non prescription medication and absolutely never use demonic items like Ouija Boards. Exactly ten years later my grandmother passed away of stomach cancer.
> If this does not count as a paranormal ghost story, then what would any of you call it? Please feel free to leave comments.

It took ten years after 'soon' before the prediction (which you got secondhand) came true and then it was an aging grandmother who died of natural causes (and not an uncommon form at that)? Gimme a break! If it'd been ten DAYS maybe you'd have something, but it is hardly incredible that someone kicks the bucket after ten whole YEARS!
Paranormal my a**! That was the lamest 'paranormal' story I have EVER heard!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:30 pm

You promise? Because to tell the truth your overwhelming ego and tendency to make yourself sound better than everyone else also disinclines me to really care whether you talk to me or not!
No disrepect to your grandmother or stepfather or anyone else (not even YOU), but it was STILL the lamest excuse for a paranormal story I ever heard! If you can't see that, then nuts to you!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by ducttapeboy001 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:09 am

errrrr.. a fight ??
Oh Cool
it makes me GLaD, Im not you
And believe me Im still alive
Im doing TUGs and Im still alive.
I feel fantastic and Im stilll alive
You'd be EVIL if you're GLaD

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:47 am

> ducttapeboy001 wrote:errrrr.. a fight ??
> Oh Cool

Don't get your hopes up; it's pretty much over... for now, at least.
Anyone wanna see a kidnap and torture story starring a certain RP genius as the guest of honor?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:57 pm

> cricks5 wrote:

> > Jason Toddman wrote:

> > > ducttapeboy001 wrote:errrrr.. a fight ??
> > > Oh Cool

> > Don't get your hopes up; it's pretty much over... for now, at least.
> > Anyone wanna see a kidnap and torture story starring a certain RP genius as the guest of honor?

> You go for that and I'll follow it up with same story type except it will be you Jason at the mercy of every single one of my rp characters on this site.

Hehehe! Go ahead and threaten me with a good time.
Maybe this would put out relative story telling skills to the test if we actually did that.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by snobound » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:41 pm

I've always held a very strong belief in the existence of extraterrestrials. However, my skepticism regarding religion caused me to dismiss the possibility of "ghosts"- until a neighbor's story left me shaken.
You might be thinking that I would have to be quite gullible to accept someone's personal tale at face value, but you'd have to know my neighbor to understand. I'll call her "Martha". Martha is a long-time senator at the Vermont statehouse. She's one of those old-fashioned, dyed in the wool, unflapple Vermont Yankees. A retired attorney, she's very conservative, and certainly not someone to go around telling outlandish stories. She doesn't gab unless she's got something meaningful to say, and she chooses her words carefully.
Like me, Martha has a number of old apple trees on her property- the entire area had been an orchard in the late 19th century. She's always giving me loads of apples, so I volunteered to help prune the trees. It was mid November, windy and cold, and approaching dusk. I had suddenly gotten a distinct case of "the creeps". Martha came out of her stately old colonial to tell me for the fourth time that I had "done enough".
I was the one that broached the subject- asking whether she had ever seen or heard anything strange in the 115 year old colonial. She looked as if I had stolen her breath. Martha sized me up for a moment- you can see the intelligence in her eyes. Finally she spoke. When she finished, I was the one who felt as if someone had stolen my breath.
She explained that she had lived alone in the house for many years, and that her chocolate lab is a fairly recent acquisition. The incident took place roughly ten years ago. Martha claims that she had been reviewing a case file in bed- just as someone might read a chapter or two of a novel before nodding off. She said that she began to get sleepy, tossed the file onto the nightstand, and turned off the bedside light.
She was due in court the next day, and was turning over her anticipated arguments in her head. Martha said she had been tossing and turning for about twenty minutes, and felt that she was finally beginning to dirft off. Something suddenly tracked across the width of her bed- over the blankets and sheets covering her. She likened it to having a large dog trample you. She said she screamed bloody murder, though no one would have heard her perched on over thirty acres. No sooner had the trampling ceased when the heavy down comforter of her bed was yanked down by at least two feet. She continued to scream herself hoarse in the darkness, absolutely petrified with fright. I remember the elderly woman shaking as she said this- I think I was too.
Martha said that it must have been thirty seconds before she was able to overcome her paralysis and reach for the light. Of course, the lighted room was empty. The only visible sign of the event was the displaced comforter. After gathering all her courage, she got out of bed. She looked under it, in her closet, and behind the shower curtain, then went over each of the house's fifteen rooms armed with a loaded 12 gage. She claims to have spent the next week at a motel in Montpelier, though was only able to fall asleep due to sheer exhaustion on the third night.
Martha never heard ANY footsteps- before or after the "trampling". Remember- she lives alone, and had NO pets at the time. The ancient house's windows are a chore to open, and she had locked all doors from the inside- so she claims. She was so visibly distraught after finishing her story that I felt obliged to help her back to the house, which I couldn't wait to get out of. Was there someone hiding in her house on that day? Was she so paralyzed with fear that an intruder had time to escape? Somehow, I don't think so. I believed her. At least, I believe that SHE believes the story is true. It freaked me out. Level-headed, logical, "scientific facts" me.
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by anjell » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:32 pm

Everyone one in my family has a couple stories. And yes we are all in agreement that the house we lived in for over ten years was haunted. So i guess you can say i believe in spirits and ghost. But I don't think any one would find them interesting.
Let's use all the colors.
Dust 'em, Pix!
Yup! That tasted purple!

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:45 pm

Well, Snobound, that one is a lot better than the paranormal story Cricks had come up with, which got deleted when he got banned but which I preserved when I quoted it earlier on this page. However, there may be a logical explanation for this... though I doubt you could convince her of it.
It is possible that she had halfway fallen asleep, dreamt the sensation, and woke up. I myself have dreamt sounds (car crashes, doorbells, and ringing phones) that I were certain were real when I woke up. The car crash sound was so real I dashed outside to see what had happened - only to discover it'd all been in my head. I have dreamt touch sensations as well, though not as often or as convincingly. But occasionally while dozing I have also felt sensations of ice, heat, and weight on my limbs when there was nothing to cause them; occasionally the synapses simply misfire even in healthy people. This only happens to me when I am halfway bvetween sleep and wakefulness. This may have happened to your friend; though she probably would insist this was impossible just as my mother insisted there was no car crash (I was a teenager at the time) and I wouldn't believe her until I saw for myself; I was so CERTAIN (and besides, my mom was hard of hearing)!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by snobound » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:44 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:Well, Snobound, that one is a lot better than the paranormal story Cricks had come up with, which got deleted when he got banned but which I preserved when I quoted it earlier on this page. However, there may be a logical explanation for this... though I doubt you could convince her of it.
> It is possible that she had halfway fallen asleep, dreamt the sensation, and woke up. I myself have dreamt sounds (car crashes, doorbells, and ringing phones) that I were certain were real when I woke up. The car crash sound was so real I dashed outside to see what had happened - only to discover it'd all been in my head. I have dreamt touch sensations as well, though not as often or as convincingly. But occasionally while dozing I have also felt sensations of ice, heat, and weight on my limbs when there was nothing to cause them; occasionally the synapses simply misfire even in healthy people. This only happens to me when I am halfway bvetween sleep and wakefulness. This may have happened to your friend; though she probably would insist this was impossible just as my mother insisted there was no car crash (I was a teenager at the time) and I wouldn't believe her until I saw for myself; I was so CERTAIN (and besides, my mom was hard of hearing)!!!

I have to think that your explanation must be closer to the truth. Dreams can be remarkably vivid, and who's to say that they can't be confused with reality- as your car crash example illustrates. The whole comforter thing bothers me, though. She said that it was roughly and suddenly dragged down the bed in one continuous motion. Of course, she may have kicked the thing off in a fit of terror. I so want to believe the dream explanation, as my house is too close for comfort for the alternative to be true. I told the story to my mother, and she started yammering about aliens. This thought certainly doesn't offer any comfort, though.
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by snobound » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:47 pm

> anjell wrote:Everyone one in my family has a couple stories. And yes we are all in agreement that the house we lived in for over ten years was haunted. So i guess you can say i believe in spirits and ghost. But I don't think any one would find them interesting.

I'd be curious to hear about whatever you think isn't interesting.... You live in such a great setting for paranormal stories.
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:38 pm

> snobound wrote:I told the story to my mother, and she started yammering about aliens. This thought certainly doesn't offer any comfort, though.

Many eyewitness accounts of alien visitations and near death experiences are probably also vivid dreams - perhaps induced by hallucinogens. I thinki that'sots more likely that real aliens visiting people in their bedrooms!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by snobound » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:40 am

Aside from little green men here on Earth, do you believe in exterrestrial life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe?
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:53 am

Yes. I doubt it is anywhere near as common as in Star Wars and Star Trek, though. For one thing, we are learning that more special circumstances are required for the formation of intelligence lifre forms than first thought. It is now believed that life on Earth would be very very different if the moon had not been formed, for instance. Since its formation was an unlikely fluke, that implies that intelligent life may be far rarer than we'd thought. But not out of the question. However, I doubt there are more than a handful of civilizations comparable to or superior to ours in technology in the entire Milky Way galaxy. Of course there are over a hundred billion galaxies, but contact with any civilizations millions or billions of light years away is out of the question unless a means to communicate faster than light is found.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by snobound » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:09 am

> Jason Toddman wrote:Yes. I doubt it is anywhere near as common as in Star Wars and Star Trek, though. For one thing, we are learning that more special circumstances are required for the formation of intelligence lifre forms than first thought. It is now believed that life on Earth would be very very different if the moon had not been formed, for instance. Since its formation was an unlikely fluke, that implies that intelligent life may be far rarer than we'd thought. But not out of the question. However, I doubt there are more than a handful of civilizations comparable to or superior to ours in technology in the entire Milky Way galaxy. Of course there are over a hundred billion galaxies, but contact with any civilizations millions or billions of light years away is out of the question unless a means to communicate faster than light is found.

It's the numbers game that convinces me of the existence of other intelligent civilizations. We live in a fairly average galaxy- maybe a little on the large side. The Milky Way alone contains hundreds of millions of stars, and is just one of hundreds of millions of sighted galaxies. So, multiply hundreds of millions by hundreds of millions. Being fairly conservative, I would suggest that one out of a million star systems may contain life on some level. If only a fraction of one percent of these worlds were to contain intelligent species, then we are talking literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of possibly intelligent species in the universe (I'm talking just our own dimension, now ). The distances separating them are just too unfathomable.
Regarding the likelihood of civilizations being as advanced, or beyond the technological capability of our own- we've been "civilized" for roughly ten thousand years, give or take. This is but a mere fraction of a blink of an eye in terms of cosmological time. In fact, our sun is likely a third generation star, arising from the supernavae of previous supergiant/hypergiant behemoths. Imagine a civilization of comparable intelligence and ability that existed ten thousand, one hundred thousand, or even one million years longer than our fledgling species. Who knows how many wildly advanced civilizations have already run their course and blinked out of existance.
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:19 am

Make that hundreds of billions (not millions) in each case where you refer to numbers of stars and galaxies - which of course improves your argument by a factor of 1000. There are about 200 billion stars in the galaxy, and over 100 billion galaxies. The numbers may actually be higher for stars, as the galaxy has recently been found to be larger than previously thought.
As I was saying myself; I believe there are many civilizations out there, but 'many' is a relative term. There could be a Star trek style Federation of planets (or a Star Wars style Empire) out there in our own Galaxy, and we wouldn't know it - especially if they use technologies involving types of science we haven't even dreamed of yet. But unless there is such a thing as faster than light travel (or at least communication), we will never know about them (or they us) unless our civilization lasts far longer than seems likely to me at this point. Even if the nearest such civilization is only 100 light years away (which seems fantastically close to me), they couldn't know about us yet because our radio waves have not traveled that far yet. We might not know about them either if they use different forms of communication than we do (such as 'subspace') or if we just haven't happened to radio-scan their star system yet.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by snobound » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:35 am

We are very much prisoners of our solar system unless humanity can find some way to approach or exceed (calm down, Albert) light speed. Light Boy to the rescue!?
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### Re: The Paranormal

Post by xtc » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:58 am

OK for what it's worth:
I have put "sensitives" in touch with places that peole have told me have spooked them without being too specific: "Hey M***, have you ever take your lot on this walk?" Their results have been spectacular.
Mr Sceptical went to the Rollright Stones giving it real gob about dowsing being rubbish. The Guardian gave me two bent rods encased in biro tubes (they limit the effect one can have on the rods and provide easy bearings to enable movement). He told me to walk away from his hut. When the damned things crossed, i was quite shaken. He pointed out that I couldn't have effected them and that anyone who was so sceptical might even have negated the effect.
PS When dowsing for a site for a wedding that I was priveleged to be asked to conduct, the Bride and Groom took me to the field they had chosen. I didn't know where we were going to be taken but, having walked about a bit, the rods (Yes, by now I had my own. Those metal coat hangers from dry cleaners make excellent dowsing rods.) crossed every time I passed a certain point. A quick look showed me an almost archetypical "NIche" in the hills on the horizon. OK, so I could have seen that initially if I had been looking but I did not know that I was standing in direct line of a major coastal Iron Age site, the niche and an ancient church site, which was almosr certainly built on an earlier sacred site. Before that, I didn't believe in Ley LInes. I'm still not sure but, if they exist, I think I found one.
Don't be too prepared to believe. Don't force it. If belief is for you, it will come. Don't kid yourself.
Here endeth the lesson!
Blessed be,
xtc
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!
More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:36 am

Interesting... I suppose... but I prefer to believe in things that are not even remotely affected by skepticism; like quantum physics, relativity, the law of gravity, our technology, and so on. A light bulb will light up when I flip a switch whether someone who has never heard of a light bulb is present and believes or not - unless the electricity is out or the bulb is broken, of course. IMHO if anything can be affected by one's own belief (or lack of same) in it, it is probably all psychological and therefore bogus.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: The Paranormal

Post by snobound » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:27 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:Interesting... I suppose... but I prefer to believe in things that are not even remotely affected by skepticism; like quantum physics, relativity, the law of gravity, our technology, and so on. A light bulb will light up when I flip a switch whether someone who has never heard of a light bulb is present and believes or not - unless the electricity is out or the bulb is broken, of course. IMHO if anything can be affected by one's own belief (or lack of same) in it, it is probably all psychological and therefore bogus.

I generally view the supernatural as science that humanity has yet to grasp/understand. A lot of what we are capable of now- things that are quite mundane- would have been considered witchcraft or sorcery only a couple hundred years ago. Just look at the Large Hadron Collider, stem cells, and nanotechnology as a few examples.
XTC- regarding the dowsing... A dowser was hired to locate an old sewer line under my school's playground just last year instead of destroying the place with an excavator. Townspeople, as well as the principal, scoffed at the idea. She drove up from Massachusetts for only a couple hundred bucks, and found it in FIFTEEN MINUTES!!!! I was shocked. She saved the school district literally thousands of dollars.
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