US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby jsherwood » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:43 am

House.

Discuss implications, whether moderate or extreme.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby drawscore » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:23 pm

Sent this to a liberal friend. It seems appropriate, when he claimed the Democrats were weak, and that the more radical Republicans won.

"I don't think the Democrats were weak, as much as they were overconfident. In the last week, Democrat after Democrat went on TV, and said that their party would probably lose a seat or two, but there was no way in hell they were going to lose enough seats to flip the senate. Obviously, they were wrong.

In just about every state where Hillary Clinton campaigned for a senate candidate, that candidate lost. Both Bill and Hillary campaigned in North Carolina for Kay Hagan, in Florida, for the gubernatorial candidate, Charlie Christ, and in Colorado, for Mark Udall. They all lost. Michelle Obama campaigned for Bruce Braley in Iowa, He lost. Obama, himself, was so toxic, no Democrat senate candidate wanted to be seen with him on the campaign trail. In North Carolina, Thom Tillis ran an ad on social media, of Obama praising Kay Hagen to the hilt. That does not say a lot for the Clintons' drawing power - especially Hillary's, which is probably much to the delight of Elizabeth Warren and her backers, whom many Democrats want to see challenge Hillary for the party's nomination in 2016. If she does run, she will be labeled as "Fauxcohontas," and "Lie-a-watha."

And yet, pundits like Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, and Ed Schultz, and race-baiting dipshits like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, were amazed, stunned, and shocked. All the signs were there, but they "never saw it coming," or didn't believe it could happen.

But actually, the more moderate Republicans did win. They realized that to win, they had to play it right center, as opposed to the hard right of the TEA party, Only a few TEA Party candidates made it as far as the general election. Most were defeated in the primaries.

Communism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried, and communists keep themselves in power at the point of a gun. There are those that say "the right people" have not been in charge of a communist regime," or that "there wasn't enough money to make it work." Horseshit. Communism doesn't work because it proposes an all powerful state, and stifles individualism. Communists throw people in gulags just for disagreeing with them. They are more akin to the Taliban or ISIS. Just ask anyone who has lived under communism, or who has experienced it first hand.

That's my take on the elections. The senate majority Republicans will have two years to prove to the American people that they can be trusted to do what's best for the country. If they don't do it, look for the Democrats to regain the senate in 2016. And, beginning with the inauguration of the new congress in January, the Democrat spin machine will be constantly sniping at Republican senators up for re-election in 2016. And, unlike this year, when the majority of senate seats up for election were held by Democrats, in 2016, the majority of seats up for election will be held by Republicans.

Don't know if that analysis makes any sense to you, but take it for what it's worth."

Drawscore

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby NemesisPrime » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:20 pm

Doesn't matter really. Expect to see more of the same gridlock just with a facelift.
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Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Mister Mistoffelees » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:58 pm

Yeah, moderate. Suuuuuure. First four things in the hopper in January:

1. Obamacare repeal
2. Human Life Amendment
3. Federal Defense of Marriage Amendment
4. articles of impeachment.
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Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby TUfriend » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:23 pm

Anyone else notice the strategic poisoning of the well the Republicans pulled off. All of their claims about Obama are either opinions or false, they kept a lock on congress so it would look like he didn't do anything, they strongly opposed "Obamacare" to the point where it had 29% appoval while "The affordable care act" had about 60%. I can attest to countless emails and Facebook posts proving that Obama is indeed the Anti-Christ. They claimed he was abusing the power to make executive orders when the last few presidents made way more than he has. The only fault I can directly remember that is true is something sketchy about stacking the supreme Court. I'm not anti-republican, I just find their recent political tactics... Interesting.
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Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:35 am

drawscore wrote:That's my take on the elections. The senate majority Republicans will have two years to prove to the American people that they can be trusted to do what's best for the country. If they don't do it, look for the Democrats to regain the senate in 2016. And, beginning with the inauguration of the new congress in January, the Democrat spin machine will be constantly sniping at Republican senators up for re-election in 2016. And, unlike this year, when the majority of senate seats up for election were held by Democrats, in 2016, the majority of seats up for election will be held by Republicans.

Don't know if that analysis makes any sense to you, but take it for what it's worth."

Drawscore

Actually I'm in full agreement with this part of your argument. I hope ( :lol: ) that doesn't worry you too much.
The GOP win is good for Dems on a way. The Dems quite frankly weren't getting anything done anyway; not just because of GOP obstructionists but from lack of any unified goals or leadership among themselves (the Dems had a golden opportunity in 2008-2010 and blew it). If the GOP continues to be obstructionist now, the backlash will be so great as to make them wish they hadn't won. They won't have the excuse of not having a majority anymore. They can still (truthfully) claim of course Obama blocked their agenda (since he still has a veto power), but that won't wash with the voters in 2016 since Obama will be out of the picture.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
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Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:45 am

Mister Mistoffelees wrote:Yeah, moderate. Suuuuuure. First four things in the hopper in January:

1. Obamacare repeal
2. Human Life Amendment
3. Federal Defense of Marriage Amendment
4. articles of impeachment.


1. That'll never happen in toto; Obama can still veto what he doesn't like and i takes a two-thirds majority in both houses to override it; in today's bipolar political climate such an override is virtually impossible unless a lot of people get bribed.
2. Again, the can try but this has no chance in getting much of anywhere in just two years either. To have a real chance of this thje GOP must get someone in their party in the White House in 2016, and that's a much different kettle of fish than the more local elections they won this year. This time around it's the Dems who are unified (right or wrong) behind one person while the GOP is all over the map even worse than last time in picking someone to support. Unless Hillary is given serious opposition by another Dem or something tragic happens to her or she makes a much greater blunder than even Bill ever committed, the GOP has an even tougher fight on its hands than in 2014. It's not impossible, but the GOP is at a disadvantage here.
3. This is also likely to go nowhere; the tide of public opinion has liberalized quickly in this area and though it is slowing down it is unlikely to stop or reverse course.
4. No lawyer seems willing to touch that with a ten-foot-pole.
In short, unless the GOP comes up with more constructive goals than these (such as tackling immigration quotas and the minimum wage), they will lose big in 2016.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby jsherwood » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:49 am

Only main area of continuity so far as I can read is foreign policy. US Senators and Congressmen can't really alter much besides funds. Defence maybe a change but the adminstration can still act without Congressional approval--as they have since WWII.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Chris12 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:29 am

I thought I already posted this here before. Weird.

Congratulations Republicans but I hope you'l excuse me for my first reaction being ''yuck''

Isn't this just granting them even more tools to grind the governance of the US to a complete stop....again? The last time came disturbingly close to economic trouble.

I won't scream doom and gloom for the US yet but I do think the republicans have something to prove when it comes to using their power in good faith.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby drawscore » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:08 am

Mister Mistoffelees wrote:Yeah, moderate. Suuuuuure. First four things in the hopper in January:

1. Obamacare repeal
2. Human Life Amendment
3. Federal Defense of Marriage Amendment
4. articles of impeachment.



I think other things will take priority, like securing the southern border, and building the Keystone Pipeline, both of which are quite popular with Joe and Jane Sixpack. Repealing the "Medical Devices Tax" out of Obamacare, is another popular issue. No, I think the Republicans, if they are smart. will send Obama bills that are popular with the country, but which, because of his political outlook, are personally distasteful to him - like the Keystone Pipeline - and then, dare him to veto them.

Yes, a lot of people want to repeal Obamacare outright, but I don't think that will happen. The best way to dump it, is to repeal the least popular provisions of it, like the Medical Devices Tax. Then, go on to the next provision which has people screaming. And the old adage that "The squeaky wheel gets the grease," applies. The more a particular provision of the law is complained about, the easier it is to repeal.

Impeachment? Let's just say that Joe Biden is Obama's insurance against impeachment.

Defense of Marriage amendment? Not likely. To amend the Constitution, it takes 290 votes in the House; 67 in the Senate, and approval (ratification) by the legislatures of 38 of the 50 states.

Many of you on the board do not agree with the Republican/conservative philosophy, but contrary to what a lot of you think, Republicans are not stupid. Some of them may say and do stupid things, but then, so do Democrats/liberals. I think the Republicans in congress will choose their battles carefully, and with two criteria: First, is it a winner for us?, and second, will it make the opposition look bad if they oppose it?

Drawscore

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:42 pm

Chris12 wrote:I thought I already posted this here before. Weird.

Congratulations Republicans but I hope you'l excuse me for my first reaction being ''yuck''


.

You did post this before, but in Jay's False Politics thread rather than this one.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby NemesisPrime » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:42 pm

I'm not so sure about Keystone. If it actually is built then we can kiss our asses goodbye on the climate front.
Everyone speaks in multiple languages...But gag talk is universal and a sock in your mouth is the perfect translator!

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Kyle » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:30 pm

I've heard a few optimistic people note that Clinton and a Republican-controlled Congress did pretty well back in the mid-90s. Of course, neither Obama or the current Republicans seem as willing to work with the other side as Clinton and the Republicans of 20 years ago did, so there will have to be a major change in attitude on both sides for this to happen.

More than likely things will grind to a halt even worse, although I suspect there will be something compromised and passed closer to election time because Republicans won't want to be known as the party who controlled both houses of Congress for 2 years and got nothing done, and the Democrats will need Obama to do something or they'll have some explaining to do as to why they sided with him when the 2016 election rolls around.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:28 am

Kyle wrote:I've heard a few optimistic people note that Clinton and a Republican-controlled Congress did pretty well back in the mid-90s.

That is partly because both parties have been steadily shifting away from the center for over a generation now. It used to be that many politicians in both parties considered themselves moderates and understood the fine art of compromise. Now none of them do as they shift to political extremism. Instead of pulling together on vital issues they pull stubbornly in opposite directions. This is not Obama's fault (just as Bush was not entirely at fault either) so much as it is the selfish interests of a powerful few who continue to purchase special influence for themselves in oblique but unfortunately now-legal means.
Anyone who doesn't see that PAC money and other such political contributions is a handy way to disguise bribes is imo utterly naive.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby jsherwood » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:46 am

Kyle wrote:I've heard a few optimistic people note that Clinton and a Republican-controlled Congress did pretty well back in the mid-90s. Of course, neither Obama or the current Republicans seem as willing to work with the other side as Clinton and the Republicans of 20 years ago did, so there will have to be a major change in attitude on both sides for this to happen.

More than likely things will grind to a halt even worse, although I suspect there will be something compromised and passed closer to election time because Republicans won't want to be known as the party who controlled both houses of Congress for 2 years and got nothing done, and the Democrats will need Obama to do something or they'll have some explaining to do as to why they sided with him when the 2016 election rolls around.


They didn't do well in terms of foreign policy.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:53 am

jsherwood wrote: They didn't do well in terms of foreign policy.

Foreign policy has always been a slippery slope, but any foreign policy that involves one country imposing its wishes over another always leads to disaster. It happened with Britain, France, Netherlands, Russia, Japan and Germany, and it'll happen to us (and China) eventually too.
Of course, too little foreign policy is as bad as too much; that's how we got involved in both World Wars. Hence the slippery slope.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby BelltwinAlex » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:25 am

Republicans are weenies

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:13 am

BelltwinAlex wrote:Republicans are weenies

Yeah, well Democrats have their faults too but I'll still take an average Dem over a Republican any day in the voting booth.
Though I DO have very strong reservations about Hillary, I'll likely consider her the lesser of two evils - assuming she actually runs for President in 2016.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby jsherwood » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:32 am

Jason Toddman wrote:
jsherwood wrote: They didn't do well in terms of foreign policy.

Foreign policy has always been a slippery slope, but any foreign policy that involves one country imposing its wishes over another always leads to disaster. It happened with Britain, France, Netherlands, Russia, Japan and Germany, and it'll happen to us (and China) eventually too.
Of course, too little foreign policy is as bad as too much; that's how we got involved in both World Wars. Hence the slippery slope.


But in the countries you named, they don't have the US System where by a single Senator or Congressmen can stall a vote or shut down a whole department or policy or economy.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby jsherwood » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:33 am

Jason Toddman wrote:
BelltwinAlex wrote:Republicans are weenies

Yeah, well Democrats have their faults too but I'll still take an average Dem over a Republican any day in the voting booth.
Though I DO have very strong reservations about Hillary, I'll likely consider her the lesser of two evils - assuming she actually runs for President in 2016.


Republicans under Bush (administration and congress) actually created lots of new programs and departments.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:55 am

jsherwood wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:
BelltwinAlex wrote:Republicans are weenies

Yeah, well Democrats have their faults too but I'll still take an average Dem over a Republican any day in the voting booth.
Though I DO have very strong reservations about Hillary, I'll likely consider her the lesser of two evils - assuming she actually runs for President in 2016.


Republicans under Bush (administration and congress) actually created lots of new programs and departments.

Yeah, but are we any happier or better off because of them? Marginally safer maybe, but at what cost?

jsherwood wrote:But in the countries you named, they don't have the US System where by a single Senator or Congressmen can stall a vote or shut down a whole department or policy or economy.

Whatever your point is eludes me.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby jsherwood » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:24 am

Jason Toddman wrote:
jsherwood wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:
BelltwinAlex wrote:Republicans are weenies

Yeah, well Democrats have their faults too but I'll still take an average Dem over a Republican any day in the voting booth.
Though I DO have very strong reservations about Hillary, I'll likely consider her the lesser of two evils - assuming she actually runs for President in 2016.


Republicans under Bush (administration and congress) actually created lots of new programs and departments.

Yeah, but are we any happier or better off because of them? Marginally safer maybe, but at what cost?

jsherwood wrote:But in the countries you named, they don't have the US System where by a single Senator or Congressmen can stall a vote or shut down a whole department or policy or economy.

Whatever your point is eludes me.


I dunno, I haven't lived in the US long enough.

My point is other countries do not have a parliamentary system that allows individual elected candidates to wield enough power like the US Congress.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:58 pm

jsherwood wrote:
My point is other countries do not have a parliamentary system that allows individual elected candidates to wield enough power like the US Congress.

Well, duh! I figured that out! :roll: But that's not a point, merely an observation.
My question is, what does that have to do with what I said or the subject at hand? It just seems like a non sequitur to me. Iow however true, it seems out of context.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby jsherwood » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:03 pm

Jason Toddman wrote:
jsherwood wrote:
My point is other countries do not have a parliamentary system that allows individual elected candidates to wield enough power like the US Congress.

Well, duh! I figured that out! :roll: But that's not a point, merely an observation.
My question is, what does that have to do with what I said or the subject at hand? It just seems like a non sequitur to me. Iow however true, it seems out of context.


i'm sorry duh!

Out of this discussion.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:36 pm

jsherwood wrote:
i'm sorry duh!

Out of this discussion.

*Sigh* Why are people so thin-skinned these days? All I wanted was a straight answer to a straight question without being treated like a dullard. Was that so much to ask?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby misterg792000 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:56 pm

drawscore wrote:I think other things will take priority, like securing the southern border, and building the Keystone Pipeline, both of which are quite popular with Joe and Jane Sixpack.


Joe and Jane Sixpack are idiots. Nothing is going to happen at the southern border because the sorts of changes these tools scream about will cost way more than they can ever justify, and one can tell how gullible someone is by their support for the Keystone Pipeline (oh boy, a way for Canadians to ship their oil via Texas!). Joe and Jane Sixpack saw an exploding Dow and S&P 500, a 4+% jump in GDP, a deficit that has been slashed by 60+%, lower fuel prices, greatly expanded health coverage, and the lowest unemployment in six years and decided these were *bad* things. Joe and Jane Sixpack are deathly afraid of catching ebola, but refuse to get a flu shot. Joe and Jane Sixpack can cram it.

drawscore wrote:Yes, a lot of people want to repeal Obamacare outright, but I don't think that will happen.


It won't happen, because it would have to pass the Senate. If it passes the Senate? Veto. Good luck overriding a veto with such a slim majority.

drawscore wrote:Impeachment? Let's just say that Joe Biden is Obama's insurance against impeachment.


The fact that impeachment requires high crimes and misdemeanors is Obama's "insurance against impeachment." Banging the impeachment drum exists only to get the very stupid who never passed sixth grade civics and don't understand that "I don't like him!" is not and never has been a justification for removing the legally elected chief executive riled up.

drawscore wrote:Many of you on the board do not agree with the Republican/conservative philosophy, but contrary to what a lot of you think, Republicans are not stupid. Some of them may say and do stupid things, but then, so do Democrats/liberals.


All conservatives are not stupid, but stupid people are almost always conservative.

drawscore wrote:I think the Republicans in congress will choose their battles carefully


Congrats, you learned absolutely nothing over the last six years. Hope you like meaningless spite votes that accomplish nothing whatsoever.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby drawscore » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:34 pm

We will see. When the new congress convenes, we will quickly find out who is being mean spirited and petty

Drawscore

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:23 am

drawscore wrote:We will see. When the new congress convenes, we will quickly find out who is being mean spirited and petty

Drawscore

No matter what happens, the one thing the rest of us will undoubtedly see is how little things will actually change in ways most people will agree is for the better. This country and its politics have become so polarized that there are some who would lament a cure for cancer as being a sign of the end times, and some so stubborn that even if New Orleans became the American Venice and palm trees and oranges started growing in New England they would deny that climate change is a human-caused reality.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby misterg792000 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:18 am

drawscore wrote:We will see. When the new congress convenes, we will quickly find out who is being mean spirited and petty

Drawscore


It's adorable that you think that question has not already been settled decisively. I guess until "great mind" Rush "Pill-Popping Pedophile" Limbaugh tells you otherwise, it can't possibly be true.

Re: US Republicans control the Senate and

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:47 am

drawscore wrote:We will see. When the new congress convenes, we will quickly find out who is being mean spirited and petty

Drawscore

The answer is of course that both frikking sides are. So what? That's always been true in American politics, even when Congress wasn't so bipolar as to be useless.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...