## 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mcsproot » Wed May 01, 2013 12:43 pm

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... rifle.html
Yep.
Apparently making a lethal, child sized weapon to 'teach them gun safety' is a good idea in the USA these days.
Well I hope Mr 5 Year Old learned his lesson, because HE KILLED HIS BABY SISTER.
23 year old guy from the UK.
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### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Wed May 01, 2013 3:49 pm

Everyone who thinks we don't need gun control can officially take this kids rifle, shove it up their asses, and pull the trigger.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Chris12 » Thu May 02, 2013 12:49 am

Well teaching about gun controll bloody failed didn't it!
Really, giving a five year old a gun is NOT healthy. What where those parents thinking?

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mistofoleese » Thu May 02, 2013 4:59 am

This is exactly my point some one THAT young shouldn't be around weapons to a 5 year old that's just a toy. Sadly this falls on the parents for not keeping the weapon PROPERLY secured in a locked gun safe /locker they will have to deal with this for the rest of their lives
IF you are going to teach some one THAT young start them out with Nerf weapons first then make the gradual progression.
once they are a bit older and can understand and comprehend what they are holding in their hands.
I am speaking from MANY years of experience here don't just take my word for it I am quite certain D S can tell you about some stupidity he's encountered over the years too
This story is just sad truly sad

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by xtc » Thu May 02, 2013 5:49 am

> Chris12 wrote: What where those parents thinking?

What makes you believe that thinking comes very high up on the ability scale of such people?

> mistofoleese wrote: Sadly this falls on the parents for not keeping the weapon PROPERLY secured in a locked gun safe /locker

I have a better idea: things would be even safer if the gun hadn't been in the house in the first place. Then they wouldnt have to THINK about securing it properly.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!
More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Thu May 02, 2013 10:46 am

This company makes lethal guns for kids to use. They are saying that children may kill. This is the result. My nation officially lost all of my respect.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Kyle » Thu May 02, 2013 6:03 pm

I grew up in an area where guns and shooting were a pretty common part of life (not shooting each other). I don't know too many people, if anybody, who would let a 5-year old shoot a real actual firearm. Even BB guns aren't usually given to kids before the age of 8 or so.
I tried to get on the company website to see if this thing was actually marketed to 5-year olds. The site isn't working. If it is that is not very smart. If it's something marketed to 10-year olds or kids of similar ages I think that settles the issue it was stupid parenting, which it is in any case.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Jack Roper » Thu May 02, 2013 8:30 pm

These guns, in cute colors and cuter names, are marketed for kids age five. According to their website they even show a two year old holding one.
"My First Rifle" might better be called "My Last Sister."

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by drawscore » Fri May 03, 2013 7:49 am

The first rule of weapon safety, is "Treat every weapon as if it was loaded."
Second, do not point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
Third, an inexperienced shooter must always be under constant supervision while he/she is handling a weapon.
These are simple, common sense rules, ignored, not so much by the five year old, but by the parent, for letting the child play with a real weapon without first making sure the weapon was not loaded, and by not supervising the child.
While the loss of a child is every parent's nightmare, and might be considered "punishment enough," the death of a two year old child warrants a minimum charge of negligent homicide.
Drawscore

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Fri May 03, 2013 7:53 am

What about the company? Ultimately, they facilitated this. What idiot thinks a children's firearm line is a good idea?

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by drawscore » Fri May 03, 2013 8:31 am

You can't blame the company because someone makes a bad decision in the use of their product. Should Louisville Slugger be held accountable because someone used one of their bats to bludgeon someone to death?
Granted, this was a stupid marketing decision, but the overall responsibility still rests with the parent(s).
Drawscore

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri May 03, 2013 10:53 am

I remember when I was a kid that air rifles and BB guns were advertised in comic books for kids... but those are only so dangerous. When the devil did they start selling real rifles especially for kids?
Can anyone buy these kinds of firearms? Even felons? What in hell is going on?!
Out in the countryside where I grew up, kids learned how to fire hunting guns by age 12... but they usually had weapons safety drilled thoroughly into them first! We knew not to treat guns as toys! Now they market rifles for five-year-olds? I never met a five-year-old (even living in the country) that I'd trust with a BB gun let alone a GD rifle!!! Gawd, people are dumb!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Fri May 03, 2013 12:30 pm

> drawscore wrote:You can't blame the company because someone makes a bad decision in the use of their product. Should Louisville Slugger be held accountable because someone used one of their bats to bludgeon someone to death?
> Granted, this was a stupid marketing decision, but the overall responsibility still rests with the parent(s).
> Drawscore

Bats are not weapons. They can be used that way, but they are toys. This was a real gun with real bullets. When these are sold for children, we are giving them permission to kill. I think everyone involved were idiots, but companies are always responsible for the products that they produce, market and sell.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Kyle » Fri May 03, 2013 1:42 pm

So everyone with a gun has a license to kill like James Bond now? Is that what you really think?

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Fri May 03, 2013 2:49 pm

I think there's precious little one can do with them besides killing. Laws simply say when we're allowed to do so.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Kyle » Fri May 03, 2013 3:55 pm

Yes, it's not like you can shoot them at targets or anything similar to that.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Fri May 03, 2013 4:46 pm

And why would we need real bullets for that? If it can kill, you shouldn't be wasting it on recreation.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Kyle » Fri May 03, 2013 9:05 pm

What kind of ammo are they supposed to use? I'm not someone with a great knowledge of guns (I do have some experience with firearms and shooting them so I know some things about them but am not someone who is anything close to a firearms expert) and I don't know enough about these kinds of rifles to know just what kinds of ammo they will actually shoot.
I will say this, I don't disagree rifles should not be marketed to 5-year olds, if they really are. I haven't seen evidence of this myself so I'll have to take Jack Roper's word for it that they are. That's way too young. Even in my gun-happy area kids don't shoot with weapons at that age. Eight is as young as I've heard and that's really a little too young. I did have a BB gun growing up although I was definitely a few years older than 5. And in any case, kids are ALWAYS supervised by adults, if the adults have any sense of responsibility. But the gun didn't fire on its own, and no matter how stupid it is to market it to 5-year olds (again working on the assumption they are) the parents ought to know better than to let a 5-year old shoot one, or certainly handle one without adult supervision.
I think pretty much everyone here would agree a 5-year old shouldn't be shooting a real live rifle (frankly I think a BB gun is too much for a kid that age as well), and I think we'll all agree companies shouldn't be marketing guns to kids that young. But unless the rifle managed to pull its own trigger or had a misfire, which it clearly did not, I don't see how the gun is at fault. If the parents weren't complete damn fools this wouldn't have happened. I do feel bad for them because they lost a child but let's face it, their screw-up directly related to the girl's death in the first place.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Jack Roper » Sat May 04, 2013 4:37 pm

Kyle,
Read the story originally posted about how these rifles are marketed. The gun manufacturers have no apology to make either, because they are making lots of money off these "toys".
JR

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Kyle » Sat May 04, 2013 5:12 pm

I did read the article but not since I first visited the thread and had forgotten exactly what it said. Yeah,they really don't need to be marketing rifles to kids that young. Although the parents don't have to buy them no matter who they're marketed to.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Sat May 04, 2013 7:18 pm

The ammo I was thinking of was bb rounds or paint. Save the lead for life or death situations.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Kyle » Sat May 04, 2013 9:33 pm

> mikeybound wrote:The ammo I was thinking of was bb rounds or paint. Save the lead for life or death situations.

That would have required a completely different gun. But honestly a 5-year old is really too young for that as well.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by vantran » Sun May 05, 2013 2:05 am

Sarah Palin will criticise Obama if he uses this case to further is gun control movement. Other than that, she's happy there was no abortion in the part of the mother. Right to life was preserved--life was defended when so was born. After that, it's ok--5 year is a good start to defend the constitution.
You get what I mean.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Sun May 05, 2013 9:18 am

> Kyle wrote:

> > mikeybound wrote:The ammo I was thinking of was bb rounds or paint. Save the lead for life or death situations.

> That would have required a completely different gun. But honestly a 5-year old is really too young for that as well.

That's exactly what I mean. No child should have a lethal weapon, and it's a waste to use them unless it's training or defense.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Kyle » Sun May 05, 2013 2:02 pm

I'll give you that. I don't disagree one bit.

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mistofoleese » Sun May 05, 2013 6:31 pm

> mikeybound wrote:

> > Kyle wrote:

> > > mikeybound wrote:The ammo I was thinking of was bb rounds or paint. Save the lead for life or death situations.

> > That would have required a completely different gun. But honestly a 5-year old is really too young for that as well.

> That's exactly what I mean. No child should have a lethal weapon, and it's a waste to use them unless it's training or defense.

Mike I have to agree with you I was that 5 year old little boy once I was taught the fundamentals of marksmanship further more I was taught from DAY ONE that a firearm WAS NOT A TOY I started out shooting BB guns under close supervision then moved up to 22's exactly like that kid had as time went on and my training progressed I was taught to handle maintain understand AND then fire larger caliber weapons. by the time I was 10 I was competing in marksmanship competitions.
Point is my father his friends and the men of the various units he served in while I was growing up made it clear to me EXACTLY what each and every weapon system could and would do.
While other children grew up playing with toy machine guns and Tanks I had the opportunity to not only only be around the real things but sometimes even interact with them on a one to one basis
CLEARLY the parents of this child didnt HAD the child undergone the SAME scrutiny I had when I was that age this wouldnt have happen

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mikeybound » Sun May 05, 2013 10:01 pm

These kill people. Should growing up around them even be considered a good thing?

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon May 06, 2013 7:31 am

> mikeybound wrote:These kill people. Should growing up around them even be considered a good thing?

I think you're seeing things a trifle too narrowly here mikeybound; though in light of recent events this is perfectly understandable - especially if you never grew up with guns yourself. Not all guns are intended to kill people (though of course they can). My father for example had a shotgun and a hunting rifle because he liked to hunt deer, rabbits, and go duck hunting. I could always see the guns even when I was very young, but they were never loaded when left in the house and I knew to never ever touch them for ANY reason. They weren't to play with, they weren't to touch, and if I ever did without permission I'd be in BIG trouble!!! Well, that was enough for me and so never touched the things - in fact I was reluctant to even when dad said it was okay when he tried to teach me how to go hunting when i was older and more responsible.
Unlike my older brother though I not had a strong reluctance to touch those guns but the idea of killing anything with them repelled men utterly; and not just because I didn't want to have to clean the guts out of whatever i shot either (though that was an added inducement).
But I grew up in the country, where hunting was always a part of the way of life while conversely the need of guns for home defense is almost unheard of. No one i knew thought of guns the way people are thinking about them now; or at least that wasn't really the primary reason to have them. IMO at least guns are not what is wrong with our society so much as peoples' rather (to me anyway) off-kilter obsession with the things.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: 5 Year Old Shoots 2 Year Old With 'My First Rifle'

Post by mistofoleese » Mon May 06, 2013 8:19 am

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > mikeybound wrote:These kill people. Should growing up around them even be considered a good thing?

> I think you're seeing things a trifle too narrowly here mikeybound; though in light of recent events this is perfectly understandable - especially if you never grew up with guns yourself. Not all guns are intended to kill people (though of course they can). My father for example had a shotgun and a hunting rifle because he liked to hunt deer, rabbits, and go duck hunting. I could always see the guns even when I was very young, but they were never loaded when left in the house and I knew to never ever touch them for ANY reason. They weren't to play with, they weren't to touch, and if I ever did without permission I'd be in BIG trouble!!! Well, that was enough for me and so never touched the things - in fact I was reluctant to even when dad said it was okay when he tried to teach me how to go hunting when i was older and more responsible.
> Unlike my older brother though I not had a strong reluctance to touch those guns but the idea of killing anything with them repelled men utterly; and not just because I didn't want to have to clean the guts out of whatever i shot either (though that was an added inducement).
> But I grew up in the country, where hunting was always a part of the way of life while conversely the need of guns for home defense is almost unheard of. No one i knew thought of guns the way people are thinking about them now; or at least that wasn't really the primary reason to have them. IMO at least guns are not what is wrong with our society so much as peoples' rather (to me anyway) off-kilter obsession with the things.

YOU TELL EM AIR FORCE !!!!!!!!! couldnt have said it better my self