A riddle

Postby zanev » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:50 pm

This is not a post for riddles but this one riddle...

I take the following riddle from a book I quite enjoy, titled "A Clash of Kings" from George R.R. Martin's series of A Song of Ice and Fire. The riddle deals with the concept of "power", and it may seem a tad out of place (the novel is a fantasy) but still worth a thought. It is as follows:

"In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rch man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. 'Do it,' says the king, 'for I am your lawful ruler.' 'Do it,' says the priest, 'for I command you in the names of the gods.' 'Do it,' says the rich man, 'and all this gold shall be yours.' So tell me- who lives and who dies?"
I close my eyes, Inis Mona
And reminisce of those palmy days
I moon o'er you, Inis Mona
As long as I breathe
I'll call you my home

Re: A riddle

Postby drawscore » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:44 pm

Kill 'em all. Let God sort it out.

Kill 'em all anyway. After it's done, the little guy will be the lawful ruler, have all the gold, and can start his own religion.

Drawscore

Re: A riddle

Postby Nuclearo » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:01 pm

The king and the priest die. The sellsword IS the rich man. He was born to common people and got rich as a mercenary. He isn't of great mind, but is a master of combat.
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Re: A riddle

Postby sarobah » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:22 pm

I’m with Dominik.
The king has to go. If the sellsword doesn’t kill him, he has to obey the king and kill the other two, otherwise he gets the chop himself. And he will probably be done away with in any case. Otherwise, how does the king explain the death of the priest?
However, the sellsword can’t just make himself king. He could do a deal with the rich man. But rich guy can’t be trusted, since he’s already incited assassination. So he has to go too.
As for the priest... not so sure. First there’s the issue of “Pascal’s wager” – maybe the priest’s religion is the One True Faith. (This is from the viewpoint of the sellsword, who is “of no great mind”.) In that case, it’s not a a good idea to kill the Gods’ Representative on Earth. Plus, how is he going to just start his own religion? Not so easy (unless you’re L. Ron Hubbard).
So he should let the priest live, in order to consecrate the new king, His Majesty Sellsword I. Perhaps priest guy can be done away with later, so he can tell no tales about what went on inside the room.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: A riddle

Postby zanev » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:47 pm

Power resides wherever man believes it resides, it largely just depends on the person with the sword.

So the simple answer, to me, is it depends on the person who is doing the deed.
I close my eyes, Inis Mona
And reminisce of those palmy days
I moon o'er you, Inis Mona
As long as I breathe
I'll call you my home

Re: A riddle

Postby TUfriend » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Or we can just all go out to coffee
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Re: A riddle

Postby sarobah » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:45 pm

zanev wrote:Power resides wherever man believes it resides, it largely just depends on the person with the sword.

“Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat.” – John Lehman

TUfriend wrote:Or we can just all go out to coffee

Yes... I was thinking: “Can’t we all just get along?”
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: A riddle

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:59 pm

My initial idea is the same as Drawscore's but for a different reason; by killing all three you obey all three and disobey none, as none of the three said anything about sparing himself. So the sellsword gets the rich man's gold for his trouble (and any loot the king and priest might have on them too; priests in olden times - espcially those high ranking enough to hang around with kings, such as a cardinal - were often damned rich too you know) and sets things up so that it looks like the kind defended himself from assassination by the other two but then died himself. Then he's rich witrhout being a fugitive. :twisted:
He wouldn't get to be king though (any more than he'd get to be pope); that's not how things work - even usurpers are usually well known or have an army supporting them, and a sellsword would likely have neither advantage. But he'd likely be rich! :big:
Last edited by Jason Toddman on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A riddle

Postby Nexus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:04 am

First off, I LOVE these books, just finished A Dance with Dragons, and am pretty bummed that I now have to wait years for the next installment.

But anyway, from reading the books, to me its clear that both the king and priest die. A sellsword's only allegiance is to coin. He will take the rich man's coin and kill the other two, whether he kills the rich man aswell depends on just how treacherous a sellsword he is, and if the rich man has more gold and more use of him.

Re: A riddle

Postby sarobah » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:44 am

Jason Toddman wrote:priests in olden times - especially those high ranking enough to hang around with kings, such as a cardinal - were often damned rich too... He wouldn't get to be king though (any more than he'd get to be pope)

This is just gratuitous nitpicking, but...
In the story, the priest says “I command you in the names of the gods.” Note the plural, so this predates cardinals and popes.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: A riddle

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:57 pm

Not necessarily; many ancient priestly religions had their own ranks and pecking order too once they were well established and widespread.
In any case, I said such as a cardinal; meaning the equivalent rank of any pagan religion as well.
And you can be sure many of those guys knew nothing about vows of poverty! :quirk:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: A riddle

Postby lonewolfandfriends » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:07 pm

Everyone lives just as Drawscore said, for he'll become the lawful ruler of the kingdom.