Sacrificiallove wrote:However, I don't think they hardly make movies anymore where a woman is completely incompetent and unable to take care of herself, which is a good thing. Even in Twilight, all the women except Bella are fairly competent, for the most part. And then in the fourth book, after Bella's transformation, she's a lot more of a heroine than before.
On this site, the kidnapping scenarios, for the most part, have men overpower the women instead of the other way around. Women hardly ever kidnap men unless they're a lot holder and they tricked him somehow. And they're always sexy it would seem... What's even worse sometimes is that some people don't even want to see them get away...
Also, as I mentioned earlier, women seem to be defined by their typical womanly parts on this site... Women’s muscles are usually never mentioned... Yet some act like they’re okay with it.
And sometimes they're portrayed as liking it. It's ridiculous in all honesty.
Kyle wrote:Speaking as a man who can go either way on the dominant-submissive scale depending on the situation, I'm just not sure why this is such a big deal. I understand the social implications and stereotypes involved being annoying. But you can't really get on people for liking those sorts of things. As long as no one's really getting hurt I just don't see the problem, unless someone is saying "this is the way things should be and everyone who disagrees is wrong."
I'm still not sure what's the difference between wanting women to overpower and tie up men while men wanting to overpower and tie up women is wrong. That sounds an awful lot like judging based off preconceived notions of gender role to me.
Dann432432 wrote:I like the old sacrificiallove better then the one i rped with.
sarobah wrote:Sacrificiallove wrote:However, I don't think they hardly make movies anymore where a woman is completely incompetent and unable to take care of herself, which is a good thing. Even in Twilight, all the women except Bella are fairly competent, for the most part. And then in the fourth book, after Bella's transformation, she's a lot more of a heroine than before.
I am a HUGE fan of Buffy The Vampire Slayer.... ʼnuff said)
On this site, the kidnapping scenarios, for the most part, have men overpower the women instead of the other way around. Women hardly ever kidnap men unless they're a lot holder and they tricked him somehow. And they're always sexy it would seem... What's even worse sometimes is that some people don't even want to see them get away...
I don’t like non-consensual scenarios of any kind, including kidnap stories and force fantasies (whether written, on TV or in movies).* The exception is where the heroine ultimately triumphs.
Back in the ʼseventies – the golden age of trashy movies – the revenge story was extremely popular (e.g. I Spit On Your Grave). A startling difference between now and then is what often comes up in the responses. Back then, the audience cheered when the victim took bloody revenge on her tormenters. Nowadays (and I may be overgeneralizing) there is a tendency for audiences and reviewers to see the male villains as the victims when the heroine gets her revenge. That bothers me.
* I had a personal experience – just a scare, fortunately – a couple of years ago which makes this dislike personal for me.
I admit that I don’t read many of this type of story in the TUGs forum, but in movies in recent years – i.e. the last two decades – there has been a disturbing trend for the “dark” ending, in which good does not triumph over evil. It worries me that, in the name of being “edgy”, this type of movie is pandering to male force fantasies of the worst kind.
So I agree your concerns are valid. It’s one thing for people to say “It’s just a story” but even the TUGs forum has limits. But NO, I am not criticizing any of the stories or writers here. As I said in my previous post, fiction shouldn’t necessarily be confined to our comfort zone.*
* Penny: “Okay, that’s fine, but let’s try and get you out of your comfort zone.”
Sheldon: “Why would we want to do that? It’s called the comfort zone for a reason!”Also, as I mentioned earlier, women seem to be defined by their typical womanly parts on this site... Women’s muscles are usually never mentioned... Yet some act like they’re okay with it.
It does annoy me how women are too often infantilized and sexualized at the same time.
In both my stories and my real-life “games”, I am the “damsel in distress” – but it’s my own choice. (I hesitate to use the word “empowerment” because it’s been so overused.)And sometimes they're portrayed as liking it. It's ridiculous in all honesty.
The classic example here is the John Norman Gor series.
And in reply to Kyle, yes I do think it should work both ways.
In popular culture – and I’m assuming in the stories here, from Sara’s description – it is still mainly a one-way street. But violence is no less violence depending on the sex or gender of the perpetrator.
The Black Falcon wrote:You're talking like all guys with this fetish are just waiting for an excuse to go crazy on their instincts and kidnap and kill and enslave. And as much as I respect your opinions, I think it's getting a little out of hand.
People on this site oftentimes write fictional stories to act out their personal preferences. They (hell, let's make it we) know that there's no way in hell we could act on our desires. And why would we want to? I have a particular fetish for tying girls up that I have no control over. I don't go to the movies to find excuses to make my desires reality. No matter what kind of ending any movie has or what kind of sick image the media is creating, I'm not going to risk life and limb just to actually kidnap somebody. I like to see girls tied up, and I can't help it. So I always make sure that if bondage occurs, it is consensual.
Now, I can't speak for some outliers that may or not actually be crazy enough to go through with these desires. But for the most part, this is what the fictional section is for. To keep it fictional.
SacrificialLove, you like scenarios in which a stronger woman overpowers a weaker boy and ties them up. Or when a woman turns the tables on her captor. That's not my cup of tea, but I respect it. I like scenarios in which a man ties up a damsel in distress and lets them struggle until she is ultimately saved. That's obviously not your cup of tea.
There is an incredible range of tastes on this site. Perhaps we should just agree not to judge each other's eclectic preferences that most of us have zero control over.
sarobah wrote:However, whether this is a result of nature or nurture, studies do show that when it comes to sexual fantasies, men are more likely to see themselves in the dominant role and women in the submissive role.
Sacrificiallove wrote:I should clarify. I'm not trying to make judgments on people's sexual fantasies. . .
I am not saying that writing a fictionalized story about kidnapping a woman is wrong. It starts to become wrong when people want it to never end and no one to save them. I'd much rather a guy save the girl than her being in captivity forever, despite some recent sexual deviancy I just entertained. I am not so much into women overpowering the guy as much as I'm into him being saved. I would never leave the story with him being a captive forever. And I would never have sexual harrassment or sexual molestation be made out to be okay. And I certainly wouldn't focus on the sexual objectification and nothing else.
I think it's fine you have this fetish. I have this fetish too. It's just that some of the responses to the stories and the way the stories end up on this site seem really....wrong. Some people even say they wish they were the character in the story. That's just a bit....weird.
I hope to God that the people on this site would ever kidnap a person against their will (regardless of the gender of either the attacker or victim) and I'm sure most if not all of you don't. But I do get disgusted by some of the responses on this site based on the fact that the stories don't always have morally right endings.