## Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jack Roper » Mon May 06, 2013 11:09 pm

I got this abstract summary off of a blog called Bookforum. For any of you who feel like you are exploring some pathological territory this may help ease your mind.
"Consent vs. Coercion: BDSM interactions highlight a fine but immutable line.
Dulcinea Pitagora
Abstract
In the majority of literature related to Bondage and Domination/Dominance and Submission/Sadism and Masochism (or Sadomasochism) (BDSM; Connolly, 2006), there exists a focus on the pathologization of such interactions, and little attention is given to those who represent a normative BDSM-oriented population (Cross & Matheson, 2006; Reiersøl & Skeid, 2006). A closer look at the extant literature that discusses nonpathological expressions of BDSM reveals the act of consent to be paramount. Research that analyzes normative expressions of BDSM suggests that consensual BDSM interactions can influence individuals in various ways, such as through the mediating effects of sexual scripts (Santtila, Sandnabba, Alison, & Nordling, 2002) and heightened connection through an exchange of agency (Langdridge, 2007). Nonpathological sexual interaction is based on the construct of consent, though consent is often assumed rather than asserted (Beres, 2007); this is not the case in most BDSM interactions, however (Moser & Kleinplatz, 2007; Langdridge, 2006, 2007). While the realm of BDSM encompasses a vast range of potential activities, the single universal characteristic in normative BDSM sexual interactions is that which is considered a fundamental tenet in the BDSM community: explicit consent (Connolly, 2006; Taylor & Ussher, 2001; Yost, 2010). An examination of normative BDSM interactions highlights the importance of explicit rather than tacit agreements of consent in every type of sexual interaction."
Full Text: PDF
Copyright © 2010 The New School Psychology Bulletin | Print ISSN: 1931-793X | Online ISSN: 1931-7948

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jason Toddman » Tue May 07, 2013 8:56 pm

IOW Mutual consent is good, lack of it is bad, in anything involving bondage and especially with the optional extras, and that most practitioners of BDSM agree with this.
See how much simpler that was, Dulcinea?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed May 08, 2013 12:02 pm

And in case anyone somehow has any lingering thought that non-consensual TUGS are cool in some way, there's the recent event in Cleveland to consider:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/cas ... 40156.html
I love TUGs as much as the next guy (or gal), but imo the dirt-bags responsible for this outrage should be either shot or locked away in some deep dark hole for the rest of time!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Antonius97 » Wed May 08, 2013 3:21 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:And in case anyone somehow has any lingering thought that non-consensual TUGS are cool in some way, there's the recent event in Cleveland to consider:
> http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/cas ... 40156.html
> I love TUGs as much as the next guy (or gal), but imo the dirt-bags responsible for this outrage should be either shot or locked away in some deep dark hole for the rest of time!

Don't even use us in the same context as them! We play TUGs and/or practice the art of bondage. Those men are kidnappers, and above all, pigs! The only things we share are the materials with which we carry out our pastimes.
I didn't choose the TUG life, the TUG life chose me.

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by NemesisPrime » Thu May 09, 2013 10:58 pm

Not to menstion we only "kidnap" someone when they state that they want to be.
Those people have nothing in common with us aside from bondage.
Everyone speaks in multiple languages...But gag talk is universal and a sock in your mouth is the perfect translator!

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri May 10, 2013 6:38 am

Did you last two posters miss the part of my statement that referred to NON-consensual TUGs?
I wasn't comparing anyone on this board with that sort at all; in fact, I was trying to point out the huge difference!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Antonius97 » Sat May 11, 2013 8:27 pm

I understand that you were trying to point out the difference. I was attempting to express my disgust at even being mentioned in the same sentence as them. I apologize if that came across the wrong way.
I didn't choose the TUG life, the TUG life chose me.

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun May 12, 2013 7:41 am

> Antonius wrote:I understand that you were trying to point out the difference. I was attempting to express my disgust at even being mentioned in the same sentence as them. I apologize if that came across the wrong way.

Sounded like you were disgusted with me for making the comparison, so felt some clarification was necessary.
No hard feelings.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by mikeybound » Mon May 13, 2013 9:59 am

There's been a live tug story that made me a bit upset with how they treat the captive, and I realized that a lot of tugs seem to blur the line between consent and coercion like that. What do you guys think? If someone is kept by force and hates it, is it alright as long as the "victim" is okay with it afterwards? Is it possible to consent to no consent?

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon May 13, 2013 11:03 am

> mikeybound wrote:There's been a live tug story that made me a bit upset with how they treat the captive, and I realized that a lot of tugs seem to blur the line between consent and coercion like that. What do you guys think? If someone is kept by force and hates it, is it alright as long as the "victim" is okay with it afterwards? Is it possible to consent to no consent?

In a word... NO!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by mikeybound » Mon May 13, 2013 11:06 am

> Jason Toddman wrote:In a word... NO!

Well try looking at posts from Henry1001 and share your thoughts Toddman.

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by mistofoleese » Mon May 13, 2013 11:33 am

> mikeybound wrote:There's been a live tug story that made me a bit upset with how they treat the captive, and I realized that a lot of tugs seem to blur the line between consent and coercion like that. What do you guys think? If someone is kept by force and hates it, is it alright as long as the "victim" is okay with it afterwards? Is it possible to consent to no consent?

Well lets see, Mike you bring up a good point I can and Do see where your coming from. Lets see if I can clarify things PLEASE though feel free to correct me if I am wrong but here's my take on this
What we Do is play its fun its Mutual respect between the the two.
What that idiot did was to forcibly take someone away from their life WITHOUT ever giving the person their chance for freedom they had NO choice in the matter period it was either comply or die simple as that
What WE do when we play sure it might get a little dark BUT we all know at a certain time the "game" will end and we will go back to our lives.
For them it WASNT a game it WASNT a fantasy novel like GOR they did what they had to do to survive.
For all of us who play see its OUR choice to play. to either be the Lois Lane April O'Neil Princess Leia or what ever and have to face Down Snydley Whiplash Darth Vader The Hooded Claw or what ever
We go into that KNOWING full well that the other person has our safety first and foremost in their mind TRUST and HONESTY are PARAMOUNT.
The enviroment those young women were subjected to did not and werent thought of AT ALL
I am quite certain and I SPEAK for everyone on this board had we been that guy who crashed through the door we all would have done the same thing to help save those three girls
Stories are fiction they are one thing REAL LIFE is another.
Ive been coming to this board now for many years, I have read a multitude of truly awesome stories by some VERY talented writers the type of stories that keep you glued to the screen wondering just what will happen next.
For those of us lucky enough to experience it for a brief time real time it gives us fond memories of days gone by.
Sadly these young ladies had that STOLEN from them for them those days will only be days best forgotten.

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by mikeybound » Mon May 13, 2013 11:38 am

Well currently the story I'm talking about is in real time, and besides school he'll be bound and tortured throughout the week. The person writing says his captive is okay with it later, but this seems...it's uncomfortably like the case above.

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by mistofoleese » Mon May 13, 2013 12:04 pm

> mikeybound wrote:Well currently the story I'm talking about is in real time, and besides school he'll be bound and tortured throughout the week. The person writing says his captive is okay with it later, but this seems...it's uncomfortably like the case above.

Well then I would have to agree with Jason then

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon May 13, 2013 1:39 pm

> mikeybound wrote:If someone is kept by force and hates it, is it alright as long as the "victim" is okay with it afterwards?

How can you know the victim will be 'okay' with it afterwards? Because they say so? A person under duress will say anything to get away from their captor, don't forget. Make sure it is genuinely okay with them before the fact... or do not do it at all.
In my own real-life TUG stories, I tend to embellish or exaggerate certain details. One BIG detail I greatly over-exagerrated for the sake of the story was how much my cousins simply dominated me without my implied consent. I... fibbed about that. They told me beforehand they wanted to do something like that, knowing I'd played TUGs with my older brother for years (also more consensually than I let on here), and I was not only not taken by surprise but was quite enthusiastic about it. They knew this from the start, and were always careful about my wishes and welfare. That made that part of my life the best times I ever had, rather than being a traumatic incident like it could have been had my own desires not been taken into account.
Sometimes they would ambush me for a tie-up yes, but I was always willing; hell, I could almost always hear them coming because I hear like a dog and thanks to previous experiences with my brother I knew the sounds of someone sneaking up from behind or from the other side of a door when I heard it! And they knew I was willing; they didn't have to guess or assume because I left no doubt about it. That imo made ALL the difference in the world!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Consent vs. Coercion in BDSM Relationships

Post by Jack Roper » Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 am

This has become a very interesting dialogue, one I had hoped would unfold after my initial, rather dry, post. Of course, we would love to see the line between consent and coercion be bright. As Mikey seems to be pointing out that may well not be the case.
As an example: recently a gambling parlor here in Honolulu was robbed by some bad guys, whose intent I assume was to steal the money. The gamblers were forced into a bathroom and after the Police arrived and arrested the robbers-- they booked them on kidnapping! This based on the act of locking the gamblers in a bathroom (no consent there, presumably). Most of us would view the bathroom lock-up as part of the robbery, but evidently, moving someone from one room to another is considered kidnapping.
Even though this site allows both minors and adults to electronically comingle freely, in both fiction and fact with good guidelines regarding behavior, the difficulty in establishing those bright lines between consent and coercion remain. As a minimum, I would have my partner sign some piece of paper saying, "Yes, it's ok for you to tie me up, gag me, play with my body and do x,y, and z." If something unfortunate were to happen--an accident--then the top would have at least that much protection.
It's called limits, something that in bondage play we always seems to be exploring the edges of. Perhaps that danger is one of the compelling factors to such TUG play.
Here is the link to the entire PDF document, which is quite extensive, for those of you who like to read.
http://www.nspb.net/index.php/nspb/article/view/262/377