## What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jack Roper » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:59 pm

What Jesus says about homosexuality is..
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1529140/thumb ... -570.jpg?3
.. he doesn't mention it.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Kyle » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:43 pm

Jesus didn't specifically mention murder either (at least in what was written in the Bible). Jesus also wasn't recorded having said anything about spousal abuse, child abuse, rape, terrorism, arson, or kidnapping, among a whole list of things I could mention.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Kyle » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:16 pm

I don't want to come across as argumentative either, and hope I didn't. But I've seen this argument made before for at least 3 different things; if Jesus didn't mention it, why worry about it? The problem with that is just what I described. There are a LOT of things Jesus never specifically talked about as being wrong that I think we all very clearly would say are wrong. If this is the standard, there isn't very much that's impermissible.
Homosexuality is actually mentioned as a sin in both the Old and New Testaments. It is not described as an unpardonable sin, which is where many seem to go wrong, or a worse sin than others. It's actually listed more or less along with other sexual purity sins, such as adultery.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by misterg792000 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:27 pm

Wearing clothing of mixed fabrics and eating shellfish is a sin too. My advice is, disregard the ancient fairy tales and don't live your life like it's some sort of test or dress rehearsal.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by skybird137 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:08 am

> misterg792000 wrote:Wearing clothing of mixed fabrics and eating shellfish is a sin too. My advice is, disregard the ancient fairy tales and don't live your life like it's some sort of test or dress rehearsal.

More like a bunch of msogynistic bigots made up most of this, seeing as women are essentially property. One of the major omissions to the list of laws is the concept of "Thou shalt not rape."
Calling Fifty Shades of Grey a Bondage Story is like calling Titanic an Iceberg Movie...
http://skybird137.deviantart.com

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by sarobah » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:20 am

I don’t need the Bible to tell me what to think and how to behave. Nor the Koran. Nor Das Kapital. Nor Mein Kampf.
Books, the words in them and the ideas they express are the products of the human mind, for better, for worse, no more, no less.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jack Roper » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:32 pm

I am more inclined to agree with Pope Francis' statement on gays: "who am I too judge?"

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:28 pm

Imo it matters far less what Jesus (or the bible in general) says than what the LAW says (the laws of my city, county, state and country; not The Law in the Bible). Not all sins are against the law (nor are all acts considered crimes technically sins either), but I'll just be satisfied with not breaking the laws where I live for now (in part to avoid nasty legal consequences; but only in part) and worry about accounting to God for my sins if and when the occasion ever arises... which I highly doubt it ever will.
Personally, if God is anywhere near as harsh as the bible (Old or new Testament alike) implies, we're ALL screwed anyway. Supposedly the only ones saved will be those who trusted in Jesus - regardless of how nasty or nice that person was otherwise.
Personally, I feel that any God who judges people solely on that criterion is %^$#@*ing insane anyway and that Divine Justice is a mockery; in which case Heaven and Hell are more likely a matter of personal taste than clearly defined opposites. Heaven would be the worst totalitarian nightmare imaginable and sounds little better than Hell!
Imo any deity that exists is NOTHING like the anthropomorphic, micro-managing, nit-picking, impossible-to-please, oddly-clueless-about-human-psychology-for-a-creator, hypocritical, neglectful, arbitrary, anal-retentive being that the Bible describes.
As for Jesus, he claimed Adam and Eve were actual people, and preached about love/giving in terms that most closely resemble a God-centered form of socialism (if not outright communism). Virtually all we know about him is found in a book which makes extremely dubious claims about him, God, creation, the future (especially the Book of revelations, which reads like a drug-induced nightmare) and so on. I therefore consider anything Jesus supposedly said or did to be wholly suspect.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by xtc » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:59 pm

Beware: the Bible was compiled in the fourth century and many "Gospels" were excluded. eg. Ruth, Thomas, (Psudo)Matthew, etc.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!
More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jack Roper » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:27 pm

And, since I started this Jump Into The Fire, I'd like to post a video from You Tube that may have the effect of healing any wounds.....
http://www.karmatube.org/videos.php?id=4460
and then there is this, perhaps the true spirit of Christmas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Vn ... &vq=medium
Peace!

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by misterg792000 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:14 am

> Kimmi wrote:Wow, really?

Yup. Leviticus is full of utter nonsense like that.

> Kimmi wrote:My advice: We will live our lives how we wish, and others may do the same.

Pretty much the way to live, as long as it harms no one else.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:45 am

> Kimmi wrote:We were taught in VBS, a sin is a sin. Using crimes for example: There are jaywalking, murder, and others in the middle. Yet they are all against the law. Equal to sin, a sin is a sin regardless of "degree".

Except that punishment for crimes fit the crime; more or less. You're not likely going to get forty years to life for jaywalking, for example - and no one goes to Death row for littering. Whereas, going by modern interpretations of the Bible, any sin AT ALL means that that (without Jesus that is) we're bound for Hell. If you use the brain God supposedly gave you to reason it all out (something the bible universally condemns!!!) and don't happen to believe such poppycock, off to Hell you go! What kind of righteous deity would do that?!?

> Kimmi wrote:Wow, really?
> My advice: We will live our lives how we wish, and others may do the same. In the end, we will all find out one way or the other. I choose to live in love. The arguments are invalid to me.

Pretty much how I - and most real-people atheists and agnostics - choose to live our lives anyway. We don't need a nit-picking God (and a bunch of his self-righteous interpreters like preachers and rednecks) to tell us what is right and what is wrong.
Btw I have NO beef with regular people with honest religious beliefs. None at all, nor do most atheists/agnostics in general. It's those who insist in imposing God into our everyday lives - such as teaching Creationism in the science class or claiming birth control and condoms are sinful under ALL circumstances - that I/we have problems with.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:17 am

> Kimmi wrote:I know where I am going and in the end that's all that matters.

I myself, being a deist rather than an atheist, believe in a life after death. However, though I hope there is a Heaven, I strongly believe it will be very, very different (and better) than what most Christians believe it to be. There will for instance probably be vastly more interesting things to do than sit on a cloud and strum on harps while singing endless praises to God. Instead, we might get to see what the rest of the Universe is like and perhaps even create whole planets ourselves. Now THAT would be interesting! Unlikely, but interesting.
People there won't be rewarded for preaching the word so much as simply treating other people with more kindness and courtesy than what was required of them. It won't be all-talk/no-action religious hotshots like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson who will enjoy the Afterlife the most; it'll be the ordinary folks who did random acts of kindness and did the best they could for others with what they had.
Ordinary folk just living their lives don't go to hell; if anyone does at all (which i doubt because all the concepts of Hell - including various names like Hades and Satan - are mere rip-offs from Greek and Persian mythology respectively), it'll be the worst of the worst people who go there - like murderers and terrorists and Tea Party politicians. But more likely everyone goes to the same place, and simply treated just the way they deserve (with the selfish people getting less power and privileges than those who were more giving, for instance).
That's my opinion, anyway. Of course, that's all it is. Can't prove a word of it. Nor do i care to try to. But I prefer my notion to either the concept of total oblivion after death for everyone or a completely arbitrary system where most of us fry in Hell eternally and the rest live in a Heaven where most of the good things in life - TUGs, our pets, TUGs, children, TUGs, rock music, TUGs, learning something new, TUGs, and so on - are totally absent.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Kyle » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:52 pm

> misterg792000 wrote:Wearing clothing of mixed fabrics and eating shellfish is a sin too. My advice is, disregard the ancient fairy tales and don't live your life like it's some sort of test or dress rehearsal.

Food restrictions were specifically lifted in Acts. I can just vaguely remember something about fabrics in the law from the Old Testament.
One thing to keep in mind: the law of the Old Testament was aimed at Israel (the Jewish nation, not the modern-day country). Much of the law was written specifically to keep Israel distinct from its neighbors. The idea was it would make it less likely for the Israelites to fall in line with the same wrongs as the neighboring nations if they didn't share some of the same customs. The way I understand it, some things were not necessarily sins so much as they were warnings to be careful not to identify with the neighbors and to remain distinct from them. I would imagine the laws about clothes were written for that reason but without looking it up at the moment I can't say a lot about it, as I just remember it at the edges of my memory.
Christians fall under grace, not the law. The law is not exactly useless today. Many of the ideas are good ideas, and some things did not change. Sin is still sin and requires forgiveness. People are still to love God, their neighbors, etc. But the law is not binding the way it was in ancient Israel.
One other note about food laws. To a certain extent, what's considered clean and unclean actually makes sense from a dietary view. Clean animals (in general, not always) tend to be healthier than unclean animals. Many of the clean/unclean rules and practices of the Old Testament have some practical sanitary purposes as well.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by sarobah » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:05 pm

The discussion is drifting... but that is what makes a good forum thread. (Oops... Kyle returned to the main topic while I was still composing.)
Strictly speaking for myself and not trying (or wanting) to convert anybody…
The concept of heaven does not make sense to me… at least not the traditional concept of heaven as a place of perfection and eternal happiness. That seems to me a state of oblivion. How can any action be performed – indeed why would any act be performed, including thought – if one exists in such a state? What meaning would existence have in this context? A state of perfection can persist only in the absence of change, since any change could only be in the direction of becoming less than perfect. Yet every action and thought process, the things which make us sentient beings, involves a change of state. A heavenly being would be frozen (figuratively) in a timeless, changeless, motionless state.
If, on the contrary, heaven is a place where the inhabitants feel and experience and evolve, then (1) it is not yet and can never be a state of perfection, and (2) the inhabitants must have free will and therefore the potential to do bad things. If the heavenly residents do not have the power to do wrong, then they don’t have free will. For most humans that is hardly a reward for good behaviour on earth. It is a punishment!
Perhaps upon entering heaven people enter into a state of grace which makes them incapable of sinning. But that means a change of personal identity. The heavenly being is not the same person as its counterpart on earth. Then what purpose does heaven serve, if the person being rewarded with everlasting bliss is not essentially the same person who has earned the reward? Furthermore, what exactly is the nature of the soul that enters heaven? Is it the personality which existed just before death? If so, what does that mean for someone who dies with dementia, or for a two-year-old child? If not, WHICH personality is it that is being rewarded with eternal bliss?
In some theologies, the soul is united with or absorbed into the divine; but that view is of no comfort to those who believe that the extinction of the individual personality is not the ultimate reward but rather the ultimate punishment.
Heaven also seems to me unfair. If virtue provides a ticket to heaven, some people are getting a free ride. Rich people have less need to commit sin and more opportunities to show charity and selflessness. Some people die too young or have lives which are too deprived for them to have any chance of improving themselves morally and spiritually to earn a way into heaven. For example, we rightly praise a rich man who renounces his wealth to help the unfortunate and we expect that he will go to heaven. A poor person does not have that option.
I have other problems with heaven, but those are the key issues.
Last edited by sarobah on Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by mikeybound » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:46 pm

I can't pretend to know what the people who wrote this stuff were thinking, but I do know myself. I am gay. I definatly know it's not a choice. With the absence of choice, I can only reason that it means this is not a sin, and is a part of any god's design that may exist. Furthermore, if the urges are permitted, then that means we are permitted to act on them. Otherwise they wouldn't exist in the first place. No book can change this.
As for Heaven being unable to be a perfect paradise without being a static, changeless void, the two things are probably mutually exclusive. I can imagine paradise found in imperfection. If what sarobah described is really so unpleasant, then that means it isn't the height of bliss. True heaven can only be found in discord.
Last edited by mikeybound on Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by sarobah » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:12 pm

> mikeybound wrote:With the absence of choice, I can only reason that it means this is not a sin, and part of any god's design that may exist. Furthermore, if the urges are permitted, then that means we are permitted to act on them. Otherwise they wouldn't exist in the first place. No book can change this.

Being a non-theist, I have no vested interest in the “morality” of homosexuality. From my perspective, anti-gay sentiment based on religious principles has no logical foundation.
Assuming God exists, either “he” endowed humans with free will or “he” did not. Let’s say that God endows us with free will. How we use that free will is then the ultimate test (of whether or not we get into heaven). If we assume that homosexuality is wrong (because it is God’s law), the problem is simple… what could have been God’s intentions in making some people gay and not everyone? Why should only some people be subject to this particular test? How did God decide which people?
More likely, theists (not just Christians, but also Muslims… and, let’s face it, many atheists) will assume that homosexuality is not an attribute one is born with but a personal choice. They never really come up with an explanation of why some people make this choice and others don’t. All they can come up with is “It’s wrong so don’t do it.” The problem is… why is it wrong? If it’s wrong because it’s unnatural, then why has nature made some people gay? And anyway, why is it MORALLY wrong? What has nature got to do with morality? The central claim of ALL theists is that moral law derives from God, and not from nature.
So the theist is forced back onto the claim that homosexuality is against God’s law. Of course, that brings us to one of the oldest dilemmas in philosophy… Is something wrong because God condemns it, or does God condemn something because it is wrong? In the first instance, morality and justice are defined to be that which is pleasing to who has the power, “in accord with the definition of tyrants” (those are the words of Leibniz). In the second instance, if God condemns homosexuality because it is wrong, WHO or WHAT is telling God what is right or wrong? If God is not the final arbiter of morality, ‘he” is just the agent of some higher power and should stay the hell out of it.

> True heaven can only be found in discord.

As a philosopher, as well as someone of Irish heritage, I find this to be a comforting and inspiring idea.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:38 pm

> Kyle wrote:Food restrictions were specifically lifted in Acts. I can just vaguely remember something about fabrics in the law from the Old Testament.

The food restrictions and the sex restrictions were often lumped together in the Old Testament. There's only one reason why the food restrictions were lifted in Actsand the sexual ones were not; Acts was written for Gentiles who would have balked (if not laughed) at such food restrictions and ignored them and probably spurned Christianity in the process. Not wanted to lose converts, the New Testmanent writers like Paul and Luke did something that is considered a dirty word today... they compromised. They didn't lift the taboos against certain sexual acts because they wouldn't have been as uniformly ignored, so they kept those in. Divine inspiration had nothing to do with it.
Christian History is loaded with such compromises... among these the timing of Christmas and Easter (which were both originally pagan holidays) to celebrate the winter solstice and the coming of spring respectively.

> sarobah wrote:The concept of heaven does not make sense to me… at least not the traditional concept of heaven as a place of perfection and eternal happiness.
> If, on the contrary, heaven is a place where the inhabitants feel and experience and evolve, then (1) it is not yet and can never be a state of perfection, and (2) the inhabitants must have free will and therefore the potential to do bad things. If the heavenly residents do not have the power to do wrong, then they don’t have free will. For most humans that is hardly a reward for good behaviour on earth. It is a punishment!
> I have other problems with heaven, but those are the key issues.

Pretty much what I believe. Heaven isn't a state of perfection. Such a state is impossible for a group of diverse people with different wants and needs and desires. One person's idea of heaven might seem like Hell to me, and vice versa. Instead, I believe that, assuming there is an afterlife at all, each gets one custom-made to his own desires. In which case, mine for instance would include TUGs with like-minded individuals!!! Heaven isn't perfection; it's simply (I hope) a whole lot better than our current reality.
Again, this is just what I hope and believe. I'm probably wrong; but my beliefs suit me and hurt no one so what's the harm? It makes just as much sense as (if not more sense than) anyone else's conception of the Afterlife.
What I really fear is the actual case is not the biblical concept of Heaven or Hell, however. What i fear is that, if the modern physicists' concept of an infinite number of parallel universes is correct (with an infinite number of duplicates for every person that has ever existed, ever will exist, and even ever could exist but never did in our own reality), it also implies an infinite number of reincarnations for each and every living thing (including humans) that has ever lived!!! If so, that means each of us could already have lived our lives in an infinite variety of ways in different universes and will continue to do so for eternity!
Gahhh!!! If that's the case, it's a darned good thing memory never carries over so that each time always seems like the first and only time!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by mikeybound » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:03 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote: What i fear is that, if the modern physicists' concept of an infinite number of parallel universes is correct (with an infinite number of duplicates for every person that has ever existed, ever will exist, and even ever could exist but never did in our own reality), it also implies an infinite number of reincarnations for each and every living thing (including humans) that has ever lived!!! If so, that means each of us could already have lived our lives in an infinite variety of ways in different universes and will continue to do so for eternity!
> Gahhh!!! If that's the case, it's a darned good thing memory never carries over so that each time always seems like the first and only time!

Eh. I'd actually prefer knowing that. Getting closure on the whole thing, knowing that we already have our eternity. Not something you could call heaven, but certainly better than hell.
Is it just me, or did this thread completely derail?

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by sarobah » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:45 am

The thread has not derailed. It has evolved :o)
I subscribe to the infinite multiverse hypothesis. Everything which is not logically possible not only exists but exists an infinite number of times. Much of theoretical physics appears to be converging on this conclusion (inflationary and string theory, for instance), so it is not simply idle speculation.
As Jason explains, this creates problems for the concept of personal identity. In what sense can we be distinct and separate individuals if there exist an infinite number of absolutely identical versions of each of us, an infinite number of ever-so-slightly different versions, and so on?
It also creates an ethical dilemma. What is the point of trying, for example, to work for a better world if there exist an infinite number of better worlds, ranging from slightly better to infinitely better? There also are an infinite number of worse worlds. No matter how much we work to improve the lives of the people around us, the best we can achieve will make an infinitesimally small difference.
On the slightly optimistic side, there is a thought experiment called the quantum machine-gun. Without going into detail, the basic idea is that you will live forever. Whenever one version of you dies in one world, there are other versions which will continue to live on. With an infinite number of versions of you, no matter how long “you” live or when “you” die, there will remain an infinite number living on. If the pool of “you” versions is infinite, this will be the case forever.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by skybird137 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:48 am

One of the silliest arguments against homosexuals marrying is that biblical marriage is between "One man and one woman"
Yet in the Bible it was actually between one man, and one or more women. The One man, one Woman routine was for the benefit of the Romans because it was their rule. This was so that there would be more family units, and therefore more offspring and more soldiers who could slaughter for the glory of the Roman Empire.
Calling Fifty Shades of Grey a Bondage Story is like calling Titanic an Iceberg Movie...
http://skybird137.deviantart.com

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:57 am

> skybird137 wrote:One of the silliest arguments against homosexuals marrying is that biblical marriage is between "One man and one woman"
> Yet in the Bible it was actually between one man, and one or more women. The One man, one Woman routine was for the benefit of the Romans because it was their rule. This was so that there would be more family units, and therefore more offspring and more soldiers who could slaughter for the glory of the Roman Empire.

Furthermore, it's not even "One man and one woman"; it's "One male and one female". Maturity (by our standards at least) is never mentioned as a requirement in the bible, so long as the female was 'nubile'. Females can be 'nubile' by age 10 or 11 and usually were in those days of shorter lives. In fact, a female was considered an old maid if she was unwed by the time she was 21! This is why no one in Shakespeare's time raised an eyebrow at Romeo being only 15 and Juliet being only 13 - a fact apparently forgotten by most people now!
Peer-age match-ups were by no means always the case, either. Females still young enough to be in middle school today often wedded men old enough to be their fathers in Biblical times! This is in fact considered likely in the case of Joseph and Mary! So much for the righteousness of Biblical times!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by skybird137 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:17 am

The above situation about age makes the Midianite Massacre in the Bible even worse.
This is when all males and all adult females were murdered, except for:
"But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
The girls must have been of a young age, and the keep 'alive for yourselves' doesn't need much working out.
Calling Fifty Shades of Grey a Bondage Story is like calling Titanic an Iceberg Movie...
http://skybird137.deviantart.com

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:54 pm

Oh yes; rape along with genocide and destruction of the environment was sanctioned many times in the Old Testament. Even the Taliban really has nothing on those Old testament guys when it comes to self-serving ways to please God!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by skybird137 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:45 pm

Even in the New Testament, there are awful things about the support of slavery and the treatment of women as second class human beings.
There seem to be suggestions that the Romans were becoming less tolerant sexually as well, even before the Christians got into any major influence, so maybe they added the anti homosexuality part in order to get more supporters. Normally, the male who played the 'passive role' was a social inferior who was often looked down upon.
Calling Fifty Shades of Grey a Bondage Story is like calling Titanic an Iceberg Movie...
http://skybird137.deviantart.com

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:30 pm

> skybird137 wrote:Normally, the male who played the 'passive role' was a social inferior who was often looked down upon.

Which does seem to go along with most of the fantasies one reads here concerning similar master/slave relationships. Still, social status was virtually everything in those days (even more so than today despite the growing wealth inequality that is beginning to prevail in the US), so this is somewhat understandable.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jay Feely » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:24 pm

God never said we are perfect, but if repent, and put our faith in him, we are going to heaven.
That being said, homosexuality is no different than lying, murder, and other sins, so if people repent, they will be fine.
You will have to subdue me to restrain me. I been a bad boy so make sure you torture me too with anything but pain.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:20 pm

> Jay Feely wrote:God never said we are perfect, but if repent, and put our faith in him, we are going to heaven.
> That being said, homosexuality is no different than lying, murder, and other sins, so if people repent, they will be fine.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Jay. Comparing homosexuality (or lying, depending on the lie) to murder is unlikely to win you many friends outside of church these days. In fact, I personally feel that anyone who honestly believes that crap hasn't really bothered to think things through at all. Religious Fundamentalism (of any type) is imo a refuge for the intellectually lazy and the morally inept. Also, considering other things you've said on this site, I also think you in particular calling homosexuality a sin to be, at best, kind of dishonest.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by AlexUSA » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:24 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > Jay Feely wrote:God never said we are perfect, but if repent, and put our faith in him, we are going to heaven.
> > That being said, homosexuality is no different than lying, murder, and other sins, so if people repent, they will be fine.

> We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Jay. Comparing homosexuality (or lying, depending on the lie) to murder is unlikely to win you many friends outside of church these days. In fact, I personally feel that anyone who honestly believes that crap hasn't really bothered to think things through at all. Religious Fundamentalism (of any type) is imo a refuge for the intellectually lazy and the morally inept. Also, considering other things you've said on this site, I also think you in particular calling homosexuality a sin to be, at best, kind of dishonest.

I shall disagree with both of you here. I disagree with Jay because of his choice of wording. I disagree with Jason because of a logical fallacy.
Both theism and atheism ARE in their own right logical conclusions to the mystery of existence. What matters is how the person gets there. This is the "fundamental paradox of existence."
I rite on a tabblit, so speling errurs will hap pin free quintly.

### Re: What Jesus says about homosexuality

Post by skybird137 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:00 am

Old Testament rules: Written to pander to a misogynist warrior society.
New Testament rule: Written to pander to another misogynist warrior society.
Hardly a great basis for morality.
Calling Fifty Shades of Grey a Bondage Story is like calling Titanic an Iceberg Movie...
http://skybird137.deviantart.com