## Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by zanev » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:47 am

California:
725 people on Death Row.
13 Executed since 1979
Court order since 2006 halting all executions
Voters in 2012 vote to keep death penalty.
I don't get it.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/07/justice/c ... ?hpt=hp_t2

> (CNN) -- Richard Ramirez, a mass murderer and serial rapist known as the "Night Stalker" for his 1984-85 crime spree in California, died Friday morning of natural causes at age 53, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation said.
> The California death row inmate died at Marin General Hospital north of San Francisco, the department said.
> Ramirez was convicted in 1989 of 13 murders -- 11 in Southern California and two others in the San Francisco area -- along with five attempted murders, 11 sexual assaults and 14 burglaries.
> Ramirez, a professed "satanist," was dubbed the "Night Stalker" for his preference of breaking into houses in the wee hours of the morning.
> His attacks, many of them on elderly couples, terrified Southern California. His preferred method of attack was to quickly kill the male and rape -- sometimes repeatedly -- the female after ransacking the home for valuables. Some of his victims survived and provided descriptions, but police were unable to name a suspect.
> Arrested in 1985, Ramirez was sentenced to die after his conviction in 1989.
> Ramirez is the 59th inmate condemned in California to have died of natural causes since the state reinstated capital punishment in 1978, the department of corrections said. Twenty-two others committed suicide, and six died of other causes.
> The state, which has 735 offenders on death row, has executed 13 inmates since 1979; one other California offender was executed in Missouri, the department said.

I close my eyes, Inis Mona
And reminisce of those palmy days
I moon o'er you, Inis Mona
As long as I breathe
I'll call you my home

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by drawscore » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:44 pm

Justice delayed is justice denied. If there was no doubt of this asshole's guilt, he should have been cordially invited to have a seat in the gas chamber/electric chair after one state and one federal appeal. (Max, three years.)
Unfortunately, there are too many idiots who serve in state legislatures, and in state and federal courts, and are put there, directly or indirectly, by, I think the term is "low information voters," that make it far more likely that a person sentenced to death, will, indeed, die in prison, but of natural causes/old age, long before they ever see the inside of the prison's death chamber.
That is hardly a deterrent to crime. Something more effective, might be that if there is no doubt of a person's guilt, and issues of extenuation/mitigation are far outweighed by issues of aggravation, the county builds a set of electric bleachers behind the county jail, and on the last day of the month, those convicted of pre-meditated murder, kidnapping, forcible rape, or who have been convicted of three violent felonies in the last ten years, are marched out, sat down, locked in, and fried. Put it on Pay Per View, and use the funds generated to compensate the families of the victims.
If one happens to be an Islamist terrorist, make a big show of of his execution, and of burying his body under six feet of of pig shit. Provide the video to al-Jazeera at no charge.
Free cigarettes to death row inmates is another thought, if my first idea can't be implemented.
Drawscore

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Chris12 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:30 am

> Justice delayed is justice denied. If there was no doubt of this asshole's guilt, he should have been cordially invited to have a seat in the gas chamber/electric chair after one state and one federal appeal

Can't really argue with that.

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:42 pm

When there is no doubt whatsoever, then I completely agree.
It's only in cases of conviction by circumstantial evidence that I have trouble with executions. For instance, that theater shooter in Aurora Colorado should fry! Same with that Castro creep in Ohio.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:07 pm

> george1909 wrote:As a christian i cant agree with the death penalty it is a heinous act to take the life that God has put on this earth even in retribution

Really? God Himself didn't seem to have a problem with it in the Old Testament, where (supposedly) He commanded the Israelites to commit genocide, wiping out entire populations (including women and children and even their farm animals to the last life usually without exception), and for executions by stoning for acts we don't even consider illegal. True, Christ taught a gentler way, but that may be partially because early Christians had no opportunity to impose their wishes on others like they would have in centuries to come. And skipping over such unhappy incidents as the Crusades and the Inquisition for the sake of amity, sometimes killing is necessary - particularly if you're a cop, federal agent, or a soldier.... many of whom are I'm sure honest and devout Christians as well. Since God won't do it, it's left to our authorities to do the job.
I myself oppose the death penalty in cases where there is any real doubt, but in cases where it is absent (say, with the two cases I mentioned), better to put them down as the threat to decent people that they are just as we would a rabid dog, a deadly virus, or a poisonous breed of insect rather than live on at taxpayer expense.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:59 am

> george1909 wrote:If the person is in custody then they can no longer stalk members of society its a personal thing i try and live by the ten commandments one of which is ''thou shall not kill''

They can (and do) stalk other inmates though; including inmates whose crimes may have been much less (such as possession of cocaine) and whose sentences might have been only a few years... making life sheer hell even for those inmates guilty of even the most 'trivial' of crimes for which a prison sentence is handed out at all. And if you think murderers have NO influence on the outside, I suggest you research fellows like Charles Manson.
Anyway, it's fine if YOU don't kill anyone; no one expects you to. But if some child murderer like Holmes (the Aurora theater shooter) was to be executed by firing squad; I'd cheerfully volunteer to be a member of the squad that shoots him!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by drawscore » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:25 pm

Down in Florida, there is a sheriff with the same attitude, but not the notoriety of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, in Arizona. One day, one of his deputies stopped an illegal alien for a minor traffic violation, and had his gun taken from him, and shot four times. This did not sit well with either the sheriff, or the local populace, and within hours, a large, multi-agency manhunt was on.
The cop killer was driven to ground in a wooded area, and fired a shot at the pursuing LEO's. Immediately, fire was returned, with the end result being that the killer was hit 67 times, and died on the scene.
The liberal press went nuts over this poor illegal alien being shot 67 times, and demanded to know why. The sheriff said "Because we ran out of bullets."
A few days later, the county coroner completed his autopsy, and declared that the killer had died of natural causes.
Again, the liberal press went nuts, and demanded to know how someone shot 67 times, could die of natural causes.
The coroner, with the sheriff by his side, said "When you are shot 67 times, you are naturally going to die."
True story.
Drawscore

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:06 am

> drawscore wrote:The liberal press went nuts over this poor illegal alien being shot 67 times
> Drawscore

They must have done it pretty quietly, since i don't recall ever hearing about it... and you yourself must have figured it was uber-obscure or you wouldn't have had to point out that it was a true story. I'm sure some details have been fudged along the way too (not deliberately by you I'm sure... kind of), such as how quickly the press knew WHY the guy had been shot, but no matter. The thing being, if this guy (whatever is race or legal status) shot a deputy for whatever reason (let alone the trivial reason stated), he deserved no mercy and definitely deserved what he got.
More liberal than you Drawscore I may be, but not so liberal as to feel sorry for cold-blooded killers like this. Not at all.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by drawscore » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:39 am

Jason:
Here's the URL
http://thepolicenews.net/default.aspx/a ... p/Home.htm
Drawscore

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:13 am

You seem to have (typically) misunderstood, Drawscore. I never claimed it never happened. I disputed your claim that the media made a big deal out of it. And the source you cite is not only not exactly a major news outlet (police news in Texas... wow! Texas is so crime ridden that the state needs a paper just about police actions?) but is apparently referring to an incident that happened way back in 2009. Oh yeah, the media made a real big fuss over the incident didn't they?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by drawscore » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:08 pm

Obviously the media didn't make a "big deal" of it, because if they did so, it would have turned Sheriff Grady Judd into a folk hero, ala Joe Arpaio. Besides, when was the last time the lame stream media said anything positive about conservatives?
Drawscore

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:17 pm

> drawscore wrote:Obviously the media didn't make a "big deal" of it, because if they did so, it would have turned Sheriff Grady Judd into a folk hero, ala Joe Arpaio. Besides, when was the last time the lame stream media said anything positive about conservatives?
> Drawscore

Maybe if conservatives DID something positive for people who aren't in the upper 1% income bracket, this would change. But there's nothing positive about taking women's rights away, taking a hard-line on Hispanic immigrants while the real criminals are from other nationalties legally immigrating here because they have money, bending science to serve their own political agendas, starting wars without exit strategies, or yelling about scandals in democratic administrations while ignoring equally bad if not worse crises caused by republican ones. There's a reason why there are far many more conservatives found in fundamentalist circles (denying climate science and proclaiming evolution is a fraud) than are found in academic ones making new scientific discoveries and helping to solve problems through engineering and technology... the latter require open minds!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by drawscore » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:56 pm

But Jason, if your mind is too open, all your brains fall out.
Drawscore

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:09 pm

> drawscore wrote:But Jason, if your mind is too open, all your brains fall out. Drawscore

Very funny I am sure, but at the same time I notice that you like to crack jokes and quote simple (and often empty) platitudes or other pithy sayings (you must have used the hoary old "Heaven wouldn't take me and Hell is afraid I'd take over" quip a dozen times alone at least) when you are unable to come up with a convincing counter-point. Just saying.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by drawscore » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:52 pm

Happy to see that you are still following Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."
Drawscore

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:32 pm

And too bad you still engage in the tireless (and tiresome) conservative habit of labeling people who disagree with you instead of countering any of my points in any kind of mature or intelligent fashion.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by drawscore » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:45 pm

I'm sorry, but I'm not goung to engage you in an argument, Jason. Another saying, of which I am fond, tells me not to argue with a fool, because those watching, won't be able to tell the difference.
Drawscore

### Re: Richard Ramirez dies of natural causes on Death Row

Post by Jason Toddman » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:52 am

> drawscore wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm not goung to engage you in an argument, Jason. Another saying, of which I am fond, tells me not to argue with a fool, because those watching, won't be able to tell the difference.
> Drawscore

“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
- Rule 5 of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."
I guess it works for conservatives too.
Besides which, for someone who resents being called names, you're pretty free with the name-calling yourself. Guess we know what that else that makes you.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...