## Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by Male shortstied » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:59 pm

Terrible events happen today in Tucson, Arazona today as a gunman opens fire at a crowd during a cogresswoman's event killing at least 6 including a federal judge, & wounding several others including the cogresswoman.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by SuperRedbaron221 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:12 pm

Such violence... Why cant everyone just sit down and talk with whoever upsets them like civilized people.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by sarobah » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:45 pm

The reports on the gunman suggest that the shooting was the act of a madman rather than politically motivated. Most of his â€œmanifestoâ€ is right-wing (e.g. the stuff about the gold standard) with a smattering of left-wing ideology thrown into the mix, which is a good indication of a deranged mind. His Youtube videos confirm it.
Unfortunately, itâ€™s the appalling state of political discourse (not just in the US but everywhere) that stirs up the psychotics. But itâ€™s nothing new. Violent imagery, inflammatory language and demonizing opponents have always been a part of the rhetoric, and I donâ€™t see that changing.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by Scottstud94 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:14 pm

Horrible, and tragic. That gunman deserves the death penalty.
As for the political side Sarah Palin had a "hit list" of people who voted for the health care reform. The injured senator was on it. This is why I hate Sarah Palin.
My prayers go out to the victims

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by Chris12 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:34 am

I listened to Obama's speech about it he seemed quite upset.
I agree the gunner should get the death penalty.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by snobound » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:43 pm

Like Sara said, this shooting doesn't appear to be purely the result of political ideology. The shooter was rejected by the army, then kicked out of community college after being told that he needed to have a psych eval before returning. This guy was a stand-out nut job beyond the pack of usual political extremist wing nuts.
What needs to be taken from this terrible incident is that hate continues to ferment in this country, and we're likely to see an increasing number of incidences of hate-induced violence if this "sky is falling" rhetoric from both sides doesn't subside.
Try out the TUGs chat! http://chat.mibbit.com/#tugsnet

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by sarobah » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:21 pm

Speaking as a foreigner, I should add that Americans can take some comfort in the fact that political violence is NOT endemic in the US, as it is in so many parts of the world.
As an example that this can (sadly) happen anywhere â€“ Sweden, which is most peopleâ€™s ideal of a stable, peaceful country, has had a Prime Minister and a Foreign Minister assassinated in the past 25 years.
Nevertheless, if anything good does come out of the shootings, it will be that the extremists tone down their rhetoric â€“ but unhappily I donâ€™t think they will.
~ Sarah

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by SuperRedbaron221 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:27 pm

I heard that the congresswoman was shot in the head but is still alive? Im thinking WTF how do you survive a headshot?!?!?! It went through her brain and that would automatically send her body into shut down mode!
I know this post shouldn't be this tone of voice and it is sad, but i just don't understand how she could've survived. RIP to the victims.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by sarobah » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:43 pm

From the little I know... A bullet that passes right through the skull is more survivable than if it lodges in the brain. There is less chance of damage by recoil or splintering. So ironically, being shot point blank may have saved her.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by sarobah » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:50 am

I just donâ€™t get that. Although I donâ€™t defend the Iraq War, or any other for that matter, to equate American values â€“ i.e. liberal democracy, freedom of expression and religion, etc. â€“ with those of Saddam Husseinâ€™s dictatorship (which started two wars), or the Soviet Union, or any other fascist/communist/theocratic regime is just plain crazy. Remember that in many countries in the world even today, the sentiments expressed in your post would land you in jail, and possibly worse.
The problem is that people criticize democracies like the US because they are allowed to criticize. Dictatorships get a free pass simply because they suppress all dissent. We see this in the Middle East conflict â€“ Israel is condemned because it is an open society which permits its flaws to be exposed to public scrutiny. Israelâ€™s enemies, every one of them a dictatorship or absolute monarchy, get away with appalling atrocities because people, and in particular the worldâ€™s media, are too lazy or too intellectually bankrupt to look beyond the propaganda.
Conclusion â€“ Iâ€™ll take the evils of American democracy over the foolâ€™s paradise any day.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by Kyle » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:00 pm

The United States is far from perfect, but if you really want an idea of what makes it better than China, just look at the very fact you're allowed to criticize it here and nothing will happen to you.
I'm not really sure what any of this has to do with a Representative and other innocent bystanders being shot by some crazy fool in Arizona, but I figured I'd point it out while this is already off-topic.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by Kyle » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:40 pm

Political murders, while not something we should excuse today, have existed since the dawn of time. They are not something the tea partiers invented. Some societies almost have had traditions of political killings. If there's one thing different about this one, it's the fact a woman was targeted, which is pretty rare, at least in the United States, though notably of course there are far fewer women politicians than men, and men in general are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women by a pretty wide margin, so that's not hard to explain.
My point earlier wasn't that criticism makes society better. It's the fact you can do it at all that I was pointing out.
If you really don't think criticism and protest achieves things, you probably should look to the whole institution of slavery. If people had that idea in those days, we'd still most likely have slavery in this country (and other countries probably would too). Think about things like that before you start saying these things don't ever make a society better.

### Re: Tragedy in Arizona today.

Post by snobound » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:27 pm

> SuperRedbaron221 wrote:I heard that the congresswoman was shot in the head but is still alive? Im thinking WTF how do you survive a headshot?!?!?! It went through her brain and that would automatically send her body into shut down mode!
> I know this post shouldn't be this tone of voice and it is sad, but i just don't understand how she could've survived. RIP to the victims.

The critical factor is whether or not the bullet crosses the brain's midline.... the division between the left and right hemispheres. The bullet that struck Giffords passed only through one hemisphere. I can't recall which. She is beyond fortunate to be alive, and doctors are saying that there's a 100% chance that she'll pull through. What she'll be like, and how much brain function is lost is a whole different story.
Try out the TUGs chat! http://chat.mibbit.com/#tugsnet