## Damsel in distress. Sexist?

Post by Chris12 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:37 pm

This should probably be in another section since its more gender rather then tie up related but the whole damsel in distress thing isn't completely removed from tie ups(quite the opposite) and more people will see it here so this is where i'm placing it.
The damsel in distress trope is probably one of the best known there is, featuring in stories from back before year zero up to this very day. I can't think of any kid who hasn't been told bedtime stories about the brave prince rescuing his distressed girlfriend from the evil wizard or something to that effect.
Damsels in distress have been done to death. If the story is about a brother and sister the sister will get captured, same if a story has two protagonists, one male and one female. If a story is featuring a large group one of the females has a high chance to get taken hostage and so on. I think most well known fictional woman from the last century have been damsels at one point or another.
In lots of story its still being used as a nice plot device to raise the stakes. ''Quickly! we need to show everyone its getting dangerous! lets have someone steal his girlfriend!''
I suppose its easy to understand the reasons behind it . Most writers in the past where male and most stories are made for a male audience. Aside from raising the stakes a bit of fan service is rarely frowned on and if your sure the biggest part of your readers are male it becomes very easy to figure out which character you will let the villains use their ballgag on.
Lately however with the Feminists having risen quite some years ago and with society becoming more or less equal between the genders (Not there yet but progress is being made) the concept of damsels have become a subject of discussion. Not much discussion but wheter or not woman should be the automatic helpless victims in any scenario is being talked about. The two best knows female characters and damsels of their medium Princess peach and Zelda for example are more and more expected to become ''one of the guys'' One of them even getting a chance to reverse the roles.
So what do you think? Is the whole helpless victim thing no longer for this day and age? Is it inherently wrong to expect the heroine to always play second fiddle and damsel in distress to the hero? Do you like or dislike the concept?

### Re: Damsel in distress. Sexist?

Post by NemesisPrime » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:16 pm

As you have said the concept of the damsel in distress is one as old as time itself and has been the base plot of alot of Mario games but not always.
Frankly to me it's a classic troupe but I am of the idea that the idea is in need of an update for a more modern audience since women are becoming more prevalent in both the industry and workplace.
I wouldn't mind stories where it's the male hero that gets captured and it's up to say Princess Peach to save Mario to relate to my first point.
Now just to let my orientation play a tad into this as well I prefer males being captured by other males but I'm not opposed to males being captured by females.
In short yeah the troupe is a tad bit sexist but it worked at that time to like you said show that the stakes were high and what's a higher stake than the life of someone you love?
It can still be relevant just more devirsifed, with the roles switching or two same sex partners/friends.
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### Re: Damsel in distress. Sexist?

Post by Kyle » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:10 am

It can be sexist, but isn't in and of itself. It depends on how it's presented. I guess the fact it's so often women can reflect some sexism, but single incidents of it aren't necessarily sexist. They could be depending on how they're presented. I've seen damsel in distress scenarios which do come across a bit sexist. But I suppose the very fact there's a name for it that references gender says a lot. A lot of story roles do tend to be filled by men or women more often, and this one is one more often filled with female characters.
A lot of stories were written by men but women also often write these situations into stories, so I don't think you can blame this one all on men, even if that's the politically correct thing to do. But from a realism standpoint, it does make sense. I'm going to get flak for saying this, but it's a fact men are the ones who tend to be expected to risk their lives more than women, especially when it comes to risking their lives for the opposite sex, and unlike many gender roles, this one really hasn't changed much at all today from the past.
I don't have a problem with a role reversal. It could be an interesting story. But too often these stories are written solely because someone got offended and that is almost always a recipe for a terrible story.
I'll admit I like damsel in distress situations, but I also like tough women. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. James Bond is just about the epitome of masculinity and he ends up caught by the villain in almost every movie and book, so I don't see the situation itself being sexist. But it certainly can be.
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### Re: Damsel in distress. Sexist?

Post by FelixSH » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:30 pm

It´s not a problem in and of itself, but the amount of times this trope is used is problematic. I don´t even want to focus just on the "damsel in distress"-trope, the whole way how women are used in media in general is bad. While men often are the heroes in movies or games, women are as often just used as a sort of trophy, or in the case of this site a fetish object, they don´t really have any sort of agenda. They seem to be less characters and more a motivation device. I also think it´s problematic that the default gender for main characters is male, while the use of a female hero seems to need some sort of excuse.
As I said, using these tropes in single instances isn´t a problem, but that they are used so often shows a lot about how society thinks of women. This point of view is the real problem.
My idea to work with this is to use women in all kind of situations. They can be damsels in distress, but should also be heroes. They don´t need to be pretty or feminine. Showing women in all these different ways should do a lot for how we look at them.
And, especially important, they shouldn´t be just some sort of plot device. Female characters need their own agendas, some motivation that makes them act. A personality that goes beyond "I am so helpless" would be really nice to see more often.

### Re: Damsel in distress. Sexist?

Post by Fesselfan » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:07 am

Hmm...maybe pciking out one cliché (damsel) and picking on it is the wrong approach. After all, there are hundreds of them, some usefull some not.
As it had been said in a writers circle I attended ages ago...some stereotypes are used all over and over again BECAUSE THEY SIMPLY WORK!
Some of them display the persons as weak (the girl getting captured...or the man being the dumb guy, always being outwitted by the smart woman). Some are meant as kind of role model (the archetypical hero in youth literature).
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### Re: Damsel in distress. Sexist?

Post by ProfessorRemnant » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:01 am

I personally find that a lot of things pertaining to fantasy and storytelling can be sexist.
Men fantasize about a woman bound and helpless- twofold, for the thrill of the rescue, and to be the mustache twirling villain lording over his victim. And I'm sure women can and do have similar fantasies trotting about in their heads.
I honestly don't see the trope of the Damsel in Distress going away anytime soon. They would have to cancel the production and sales of duct tape before the trope vanished into the ether.
Granted, that's not to say I don't admire a woman protagonist so long as she's not the "Overly strong woman who don't play by the rules, in pumps and good makeup and don't take sass from the boss". Then again I'm male, so I may just not be in the proper demographic for that...