## Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by vantran » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:06 pm

Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians?

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Jack Roper » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:22 pm

Wow, what a can of worms this question will bring up. How about the English or the Northern Irish? Hitler or Stalin? Mao or Chiang Kai Shek?
The history of Israel and Palestine is rife with mistrust, animosity and embedded with all sorts of cultural and religious conditioning. To support one or the other side implies a black and white kind of morality and enough blood has been shed on both "sides" to make that nearly impossible.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by mistofoleese » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:14 pm

> Jack Roper wrote:Wow, what a can of worms this question will bring up. How about the English or the Northern Irish? Hitler or Stalin? Mao or Chiang Kai Shek?
> The history of Israel and Palestine is rife with mistrust, animosity and embedded with all sorts of cultural and religious conditioning. To support one or the other side implies a black and white kind of morality and enough blood has been shed on both "sides" to make that nearly impossible.

Id have to agree with that. Its just like walking around Annapolis a week before the game wearing an ARMY sweatshirt. No matter what you do OR say, SOMEBODY will try an start something .

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Kyle » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:52 pm

Yeah, this is a dangerous one to get into. I would support peace on all sides, though I'm not naive enough to think that's likely anytime soon.
I will say I support Israel against anyone who would call for its destruction, and that's about as much as I'm going to say.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Chris12 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:56 am

Neither
Both sides are doing everything to keep the conflict going so I don't have a high opinion of either of them.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Lake Lover » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:17 am

Until the Palestinians have modern cities like Israel has, a strong industrial capacity like Israel has, and wealth like Israel has, there will be no peace. Palestinians need to have as much to loose as Israelis before both cultures will move toward peaceful co-existance.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by vantran » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:09 am

My topic was just asking which do you support. You can provide more details if you want.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Scottstud94 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:24 am

Neither. If I have to side, I'll take Isreal.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Tieup1 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:33 am

It's no good choosing one side or the other, they are both to blame for this ongoing conflict.
If they worked together, and found a solution, it would be good news for both sides, trouble is, their judgement is clouded by political and religious history.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by vantran » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:53 am

> Tieup1 wrote:It's no good choosing one side or the other, they are both to blame for this ongoing conflict.
> If they worked together, and found a solution, it would be good news for both sides, trouble is, their judgement is clouded by political and religious history.

Both to blame...please further

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by elusinius » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:41 am

I would like the Israelis and the Palestinians to do something that would
cause American evangelists to get apoplexy.
I would like them to adopt Buddhism, renounce violence against each other
and rename the "holy" land "New Albuquerque".
I would like them to turn the Sinai into a race track. I would also like them
to open up casinos where they could roll people like Bill Bennett and other
peck sniffs for their money and donate some of the proceeds to end hunger
and illiteracy.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Nuclearo » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:19 am

Support implies agreeing with, there are plenty of third sides to be on.
I personally just find US involvement to be amusing at best.
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### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by vantran » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:48 am

> Nuclearo wrote:Support implies agreeing with, there are plenty of third sides to be on.
> I personally just find US involvement to be amusing at best.

Amusing? How?

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Tieup1 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:44 pm

This dispute has been going on for years, both sides seemed to have buried their heads in the sand.
Several countries have sent peace envoys, to try and find a solution, but as yet no deal has been forthcoming.
I know it's easy for me to say this, (not having lived there), but surely, there will be more benefits, for both communities if a peaceful outcome could be found.
History is gone, they must look to the future !

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by vantran » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:26 am

Who remembers that the Israelis were promised a state by the British after WWI but were never granted it then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Tieup1 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:04 pm

^^^^thats history !
Look forward ....................

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Jack Roper » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:20 pm

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ma ... estine.png
This is an alleged map of Israel in 1948 and now, in relation to Palestine. If accurate and true, then it would appear that Israel is the aggressor here, but the behavior of the Palestinians has not helped.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:36 am

This won't be a popular opinion, but I vote for Palestine.
Why? Because the Israelis waltzed right in based on specious religion-based claims that their ancestors owned the land some umpteen generations ago. Never mind that this hadn't been true for centuries. Never mind that even the Bible admits their their ancestors stole it from other indigenous peoples with the time-honored method of genocide. The whole business with Israel against the world is a direct major cause of all the wars and other BS that have plagued that region since the end of WWII. Had the US and Britain minded their own business, Britain might have retained more of its economic strength and the US wouldn't be embroiled in these expensive wars and guilty of the deaths of thousands of presumably innocent civilians in that part of the world. It almost certainly wouldn't be so hated by the rulers and many of the people of Islamic countries as it is now.
If we go by the belief that the Israelis are entitled to land in Palestine based on ancestral grounds, then by the same logic we in America and the folks in Australia and elsewhere are duty bound to give all their land back to the native peoples and clear out - presumably back to Europe in the case of white folks like myself. I don't see that ever happening, and imo the Native Americans have a MUCH better claim to North and South America than the Israeli Jews have of claiming Palestine. Barring that, Mexico would have a better claim to regain the American southwestern states from California to Texas and settle them entirely with Hispanics and native Americans! By the same token, Australian aborigines have a much better claim to having Australia all to themselves than the Israeli Jews have of claiming Palestine.
This entire farce is based on the idiotic claim that Christianity (and Judaism) is somehow superior to Islam. Well, in moral precepts perhaps they are. But that has nothing to do with the validity (or lack of it) of the Israeli claim; yet that is the main basis for most American support (and whatever European support exists) of Israeli domination over Palestine. It is a major reason why militant atheists like Richard Dawkins feel that religion is the greatest threat to world peace (and scientific advancement) today, and especially when it comes to the middle East I think they have a damned good point.
Sorry Israelis - and particularly Nuclearo - but that's just the way I feel about it.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by vantran » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:21 pm

ok, sleep with a Palestinian...if that citizen exist. Hitler was right!

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:10 pm

> vantran wrote:ok, sleep with a Palestinian...if that citizen exist. Hitler was right!

Was that supposed to be a response to my post? If so, it makes no sense to me whatsoever.
This situation has nothing at all to do with the Holocaust; other than being a knee-jerk reaction to it. The Israelis could have found safer and better homes in the US or elsewhere. Robbing the Palestinians of their own homeland was merely an act of robbing Peter to pay Paul, and caused even more misery and suffering needlesly.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Nuclearo » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:11 am

> vantran wrote:

> > Nuclearo wrote:Support implies agreeing with, there are plenty of third sides to be on.
> > I personally just find US involvement to be amusing at best.

> Amusing? How?

Just taking the latest instance: let's sit two people who have been fighting for 65 years, with repeatedly exploding negotiations if I might add, and tell them "Get to a settlement within 9 months or else!"
It's silly. Both sides are overly arrogant and refuse to start talking before the other side already gives into some of their demands. This is only going to be ended if one side has an amazing negotiator as a leader or if one side dies.

> vantran wrote:ok, sleep with a Palestinian...if that citizen exist. Hitler was right!

I was gonna make a Godwin's law reference but Jack Roper already mentioned Hitler last week. But seriously, what?
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### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by misterg792000 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:10 pm

To fully embrace and support Israel requires either cataclysmic ignorance on the subject, or being a cataclysmic asshole.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Tieup1 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:46 am

^^^Thats precisely the sort of opinion, that has kept this conflict going for as long as it has.
Its not a question of taking sides, its about working together to reach an agreement.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:58 am

That'd be fine... but this is reality. The two sides here seem no more capable (or willing) to work together than Wile E Coyote and the Roadrunner, Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, or Tea Party Republicans and President Obama. Their respective goals seem to be mutually exclusive to one another's.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Tieup1 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:53 am

^^^I can see where you are coming from, then its up to the the Peace Envoys, to find a solution.
But neither side will budge an inch, it will need one brave man, or a miracle to solve this problem.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by misterg792000 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:51 pm

> Tieup1 wrote:^^^Thats precisely the sort of opinion, that has kept this conflict going for as long as it has.

It's also the unvarnished truth. Israel is a rogue state and a destabilizing force in the region. Be nice if the US government would quit propping them up no matter what.

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:25 am

> misterg792000 wrote:It's also the unvarnished truth. Israel is a rogue state and a destabilizing force in the region. Be nice if the US government would quit propping them up no matter what.

Yes, especially as the Israelis themselves don't seem particularly thankful for it. Look at the way one of their top leaders treated President Obama a couple of years ago; like our president was his whipping boy or something. For that matter, Nuclearo's post previously doesn't seem to indicate much gratitude for US support of Israel either - and he lives there. It's probably a fairly common attitude there (Israel), too.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by jonson000001 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:38 am

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > misterg792000 wrote:It's also the unvarnished truth. Israel is a rogue state and a destabilizing force in the region. Be nice if the US government would quit propping them up no matter what.

> Yes, especially as the Israelis themselves don't seem particularly thankful for it. Look at the way one of their top leaders treated President Obama a couple of years ago; like our president was his whipping boy or something. For that matter, Nuclearo's post previously doesn't seem to indicate much gratitude for US support of Israel either - and he lives there. It's probably a fairly common attitude there (Israel), too.

first of all it seems that you know very little about this conflict. You try to live with rockets fire on your cities or suicide bomers in malls and buses. Israel does not enjoy send their soldiers into battle, belive me, but you can not expect israel ignore their secearuty needs.
And ofcourse israelis thanks us for their milatry and civil supporte time after time, we aware to the fact that the us is our most impotant ally. but as pm netanyahu said (and belive me he does not fit to most of my politic views) "friend can disagree, but our relation with the united states of america is timeless"
(Full disclosure i am a proud zionist-israeli, that want to live peacfull life with th palastinaian)

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:13 am

> jonson000001 wrote:
> first of all it seems that you know very little about this conflict. You try to live with rockets fire on your cities or suicide bomers in malls and buses. Israel does not enjoy send their soldiers into battle, belive me, but you can not expect israel ignore their secearuty needs.
> And ofcourse israelis thanks us for their milatry and civil supporte time after time, we aware to the fact that the us is our most impotant ally. but as pm netanyahu said (and belive me he does not fit to most of my politic views) "friend can disagree, but our relation with the united states of america is timeless"
> (Full disclosure i am a proud zionist-israeli, that want to live peacfull life with th palastinaian)

I don't have to live there to know about it, any more than I have to live in California to understand what causes earthquakes.
I may not be an expert on this particular conflict (I have numerous other interests after all), but one doesn't have to be to know oppression when one sees it. Supported by rich folks from other countries who let you people take all the risks and do all the dirty work, you uprooted folks who'd lived in that land for centuries and took it over for your own based on ancestral territorial claims. Such claims have been one of the greatest sources of turmoil among different people all thru history. Claims based on religious grounds are especially annoying to me.
Of course you figure you're in the right. Because you wouldn't be able to handle thinking otherwise. Just as Americans don't want to think of all the genocide committed against the Native Americans, Australians don't want to think of the aborigines they treated the same way, and so on and so on. So you don't want to think of the Palestinians who have damned good reason to resent being invaded. As far as I can see it's little if any different than when Poland was invaded in 1938 with German cries of labensraum. All the creation of Israel did was give the rest of the world a huge headache and give rise to the Islamic extremists who want to fly planes into buildings and blow up our embassies.
I'm not anti-semitic, and I am NOT attacking Jews when i say the world would be a better and more peaceful place had Israel never been re-established in the 20th century.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Who do you support Israelis or the Palestinians

Post by jonson000001 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:51 am

Do you think israel is the problem, israel is the reason there is no peace? This is not true
Let ignore the fact that between 1948-1967 Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip and Jordan controlled the West Bank and they did nothing to establish a Palestinian state israel offered the Palestinian so much and was answered with attacks.
*Year 2000 pm barak and president Arafat meet at camp david, brak ofer Arafat a Palestinian state with east Jarusalem as it capital. How did the responded? The second intifada-2 years of terror attack which includes bombing in busses and malls and killed over 1000 Israelis (in March 2002 alone more than 100 israeli has benn murduered)
*2005 Israel leave the Gaza Strip and avacted all of the satelment. How did they responded? Elected the terror organization Hamas to power and Increased the rocket fire on israeli cities.
I don't say israel are angel, but they are not the main reason why there is no peace