9/11

Postby Oohmynameisblue » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:05 am

How do so many people think 9/11 isn't real?????????!!

Re: 9/11

Postby Sniffmyfeet » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:22 am

I still remember that dreadful day, even though I was 8 years old at the time. I had just come home from school and was sitting in front of the television, mesmerised by what was shown, live from the USA. Then that second plane flew into the second tower live on television. It is something I'll never forget. The people jumping out of the windows so they wouldn't die because of the raging fire... Then the towers collapsing and the enormous clouds of dust rolling through the streets of New York. It left a deep impression on my 8-year old mind. Then that horrible war erupted in the Middle East, killing hundreds of brave soldiers from the USA and Europe. In a way, this horrible event is the cause for the present-day crisis in the Middle East: first Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Egypt, Libya and Bahrein, Syria, you name it. Islamic fundamentalism is an evil that must be rooted out once and for all, or it will show up again and again in the future.

I genuinely don't believe anyone in his right mind could say 9/11 isn't real.

Re: 9/11

Postby 31acujoker » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:10 am

Oh I know 9/11 was real, the Death Star though.... some shady shit went on that day!

#protontorpedoesdontmeltenergyreactors
"A thing is not beautiful because it lasts"
- The Vision

Re: 9/11

Postby Chris12 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:33 am

Probably because the thought of mere psychotic caveman being able to inflict any kind of injury to the greatest power in the world is kinda scary, especially if you live in said power.

Re: 9/11

Postby SelenaGfan » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:37 am

It is all too real for us in New York City and the United States. My friends lost their brother FDNY Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer
in the Tower collapse. R I P Orio.

Re: 9/11

Postby Tieup1 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:25 am

A lot of decent, innocent people lost their lives that day, for no good reason, may God's love be with them, and their families.

Re: 9/11

Postby Lake Lover » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:32 am

I was in a mechanic garage with a cousin who was having auto work done when the first tower was hit. I think it was about 8:30 a.m. Live scenes started to be broadcast and it was chaotic. Then about 20 minutes or so later the second tower was struck and I couldn't believe my eyes. It was obvious to any rational person that the two crashes had t be intentional. I ran into the garage to spread the word of what had just been broadcast on TV: another airliner had just struck the adjacent tower! Within a few minutes everyone in the Norman's Auto Repair was in the small waiting room watching the horrifying spectacle unfold.

If any person ever told me that it never happened or was a hoax I would tell them to their face that they were a half-wit, to get out, and never want to see them again. I mean it.

Re: 9/11

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:42 am

I was watching early episodes of the original 1960s TV-series Dark Shadows when I learned about what was happening from channel-surfing to the news during a commercial break. I remember having the ironic thought that Gothic Horror is nothing at all like the real thing. Gothic horror can be fun; there is nothing even remotely fun abut real horror. I have never gotten that sharp contrast out of my mind when thinking of 9-11 ever since.
No one would fake something like that. Even someone as evil as I think Dick Cheney is would never have condoned that for a moment; however much he may have profited (through Haliburton) from the resulting war in Iraq. Sure he no longer ran the outfit, but anyone who thinks he didn't directly profit is naive. But even at that I doubt very much that even he or anyone else in the US Government set up such a wild, horrible scheme as some folks believe.
It was real all right and perhaps it could have been prevented, but any idea that the Government deliberately abetted it in any way is plain wrong-headed.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: 9/11

Postby Jay Feely » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:15 am

I was 11 and in my English class when it happened. Wondered why we were released from school early.
You will have to subdue me to restrain me. I been a bad boy so make sure you torture me too with anything but pain.

Re: 9/11

Postby Oohmynameisblue » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:42 am

So sad...

YouTube extremists though are like saying the US government made it all up...I don't even know.

Re: 9/11

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:09 am

Oohmynameisblue wrote:So sad...

YouTube extremists though are like saying the US government made it all up...I don't even know.

You can't believe everything you hear on Youtube. Anyone with even rudimentary critical thinking skills should be able to tell the factual stuff from the nonsense, even when leaving the religious folks out of it. I have seen videos proclaiming such outlandish things such as the moon landings were all faked, the aliens exist and visit us all the time, that lizard people have taken over the government, that the world is flat and gravity a hoax... to say nothing of all the Bigfoot and living Elvis sightings. Some even diss the very science and technology that enables them to post their nonsense online in the first place. It can be hard to pick out the nonsense when you are young (Hell, I believe in Bigfoot and aliens in UFOS as a kid myself; I also believed in angels, demons, and the Word of the Bible, which to me now is just as fantastic). But figuring out what is real and what is a hoax early on will make a big difference in your life; especially if you haven't done so before you begin college. believe me, i should know. I would probably have a much different life and likely a much better life right now had a developed adequate critical thinking skills earlier than i did.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: 9/11

Postby Oohmynameisblue » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:16 am

Jason Toddman wrote:
Oohmynameisblue wrote:So sad...

YouTube extremists though are like saying the US government made it all up...I don't even know.

You can't believe everything you hear on Youtube. Anyone with even rudimentary critical thinking skills should be able to tell the factual stuff from the nonsense, even when leaving the religious folks out of it. I have seen videos proclaiming such outlandish things such as the moon landings were all faked, the aliens exist and visit us all the time, that lizard people have taken over the government, that the world is flat and gravity a hoax... to say nothing of all the Bigfoot and living Elvis sightings. Some even diss the very science and technology that enables them to post their nonsense online in the first place. It can be hard to pick out the nonsense when you are young (Hell, I believe in Bigfoot and aliens in UFOS as a kid myself; I also believed in angels, demons, and the Word of the Bible, which to me now is just as fantastic). But figuring out what is real and what is a hoax early on will make a big difference in your life; especially if you haven't done so before you begin college. believe me, i should know. I would probably have a much different life and likely a much better life right now had a developed adequate critical thinking skills earlier than i did.

Its not so much I believe what they're saying, it's that I DON'T believe that they would be so stupid as to post something like that, but they do anyway.

Re: 9/11

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:23 pm

Oohmynameisblue wrote:Its not so much I believe what they're saying, it's that I DON'T believe that they would be so stupid as to post something like that, but they do anyway.

As Alfred Pennyworth once said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn."
Sometimes it's hard to tell when someone is genuinely ignorant and when they are just trolls looking to create some drama. They began with real controversies (religion versus atheism; Is Islam evil, should gay marriages be legal, should pot be legal) and worked their way down to stuff you would think no one with any intelligence would propose as real (the Earth is really flat and science has been hoaxing us for centuries... somehow). I think it's people like this that have MADE American politics a joke since the turn of the century and worse with each election cycle. Because some fools will believe anything, we now have now as the main contenders for POTUS two people are I think are both horribly unqualified. One is clearly more sane than the other, and that's just about it.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: 9/11

Postby Boocola » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:18 pm

I delivered pizzas to the terrorist in 1995
:twisted:

Re: 9/11

Postby SolidSnickerdoodle » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:33 am

Oohmynameisblue wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:
Oohmynameisblue wrote:So sad...

YouTube extremists though are like saying the US government made it all up...I don't even know.

You can't believe everything you hear on Youtube. Anyone with even rudimentary critical thinking skills should be able to tell the factual stuff from the nonsense, even when leaving the religious folks out of it. I have seen videos proclaiming such outlandish things such as the moon landings were all faked, the aliens exist and visit us all the time, that lizard people have taken over the government, that the world is flat and gravity a hoax... to say nothing of all the Bigfoot and living Elvis sightings. Some even diss the very science and technology that enables them to post their nonsense online in the first place. It can be hard to pick out the nonsense when you are young (Hell, I believe in Bigfoot and aliens in UFOS as a kid myself; I also believed in angels, demons, and the Word of the Bible, which to me now is just as fantastic). But figuring out what is real and what is a hoax early on will make a big difference in your life; especially if you haven't done so before you begin college. believe me, i should know. I would probably have a much different life and likely a much better life right now had a developed adequate critical thinking skills earlier than i did.

Its not so much I believe what they're saying, it's that I DON'T believe that they would be so stupid as to post something like that, but they do anyway.

While I don't buy into the 9/11 conspiracy theories myself, I do give the people who believe them a little more credit than, say, flat-Earthers.

In the case of flat Earth conspiracy theorists, along with hollow Earth theorists and geocentrism theorists, the group takes on a claim so fundamental and well supported that it flies in the face of everything we know. These groups are often small in number with only a minuscule base actually believing what they preach. They are not interested in the scientific data that has been accumulated over the years, and any attempt by you to shed light on evidence to the contrary is dismissed as you "drinking the government Kool-Aid". Also, it is worth noting that behind every conspiracy theory there is supposedly some underlying motive, some reason to have everyone belief this fabrication. Realistically speaking, I don't see any sort of end game for every world government and scientist group coming together to fake our own model of the universe. I mean, honestly, what's the benefit?

However, I would argue that a 9/11 conspiracy theory is more realistic by comparison. Keep in mind that we're talking about governments here, specifically the US government, and governments, as we know, have agendas. And some of those agendas can by shady.

Like I said, I don't buy into the 9/11 conspiracy theories, but my reasoning behind disagreeing with them is certainly not based in moral principle. It's not because I can't imagine the US government targeting its own citizens because I can. It's not because I believe that the US government is pure in intention and execution because it's not. And it's certainly not because I believe our government puts its people ahead of political influence and wealth. Because it doesn't. (I'm using the word government collectively here. I understand that governments are made up of individual people. I just believe that many of them act in their own self-interest.)

The reason I don't believe the theories is because there's not enough incriminating evidence against the US government to suggest anything other than a terrorist attack. I'm sorry, but a video where you zoom in on a pixelated plane and say "Oh. Look. Those aren't normal plane windows. That's not a commercial plane." is not going to be enough to convince me. But aside from the lack of evidence to support the claims, I genuinely wouldn't put a stunt like this beyond the US government. And that sucks. It's a sad moment when millions of American citizens, in the wake of scandals, political pandering, fraud, and cover-ups, are so desensitized to corruption that we almost don't expect anything less.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

Re: 9/11

Postby drawscore » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:12 am

Although I do not live in New York, I have friends that do. It was real, and our biggest mistake, was not taking out the radical imams that infected the 19 hijackers with their hate, and leveling the mosques from which they preached their hate.

Drawscore

Re: 9/11

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:28 am

drawscore wrote:Although I do not live in New York, I have friends that do. It was real, and our biggest mistake, was not taking out the radical imams that infected the 19 hijackers with their hate, and leveling the mosques from which they preached their hate.

Drawscore

Problem is, too much thinking like that leads to despicable actions like this: apparent arson at a mosque in Orlando, Florida.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fire-breaks- ... 28151.html
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: 9/11

Postby Lake Lover » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:31 pm

drawscore wrote:Although I do not live in New York, I have friends that do. It was real, and our biggest mistake, was not taking out the radical imams that infected the 19 hijackers with their hate, and leveling the mosques from which they preached their hate.

Drawscore


That's the way I feel too. Kill the bastards. We should have searched them out and pulverized the city or towns they operated from and which supported their attack, as soon as we were reasonably sure they had anything to do with it or knew about the plans as they were developed and carried out. Sure some innocents would have been exterminated-- tough.

Re: 9/11

Postby Jack Roper » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:50 pm

"An eye for an eye and eventually the whole world is blind." M. K. Gandhi

Re: 9/11

Postby wataru14 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:29 pm

Lake Lover wrote:Sure some innocents would have been exterminated-- tough.


And this is exactly why we have a major problem with people becoming radicalized today.

Re: 9/11

Postby SolidSnickerdoodle » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:12 pm

Lake Lover wrote:
drawscore wrote:Although I do not live in New York, I have friends that do. It was real, and our biggest mistake, was not taking out the radical imams that infected the 19 hijackers with their hate, and leveling the mosques from which they preached their hate.

Drawscore


That's the way I feel too. Kill the bastards. We should have searched them out and pulverized the city or towns they operated from and which supported their attack, as soon as we were reasonably sure they had anything to do with it or knew about the plans as they were developed and carried out. Sure some innocents would have been exterminated-- tough.

Well this took quite a turn. First and foremost, Drawscore, "Imams" are not a religious organization, or even a population for that matter. So, if you're going to advocate for the targeting of a denomination then please give enough thought to typing their name correctly.

In regards to Lake Lover...
Image
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

Re: 9/11

Postby drawscore » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:35 am

[quote="SolidSnickerdoodle" First and foremost, Drawscore, "Imams" are not a religious organization, or even a population for that matter. So, if you're going to advocate for the targeting of a denomination then please give enough thought to typing their name correctly.[/quote]

No, SSD. An imam is an Islamic religious leader. Synonyms would be pastor, priest, reverend, minister, and chaplain. The word was correctly spelled and used. Please check your facts and definitions before putting fingers to keyboard.

Don't be the person who proves the adage "There are those that remain silent, and are thought to be fools. There are others that open their mouths (or put their fingers to their keyboards) and remove all doubt."

Drawscore

Re: 9/11

Postby drawscore » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:57 am

Jason Toddman wrote:
drawscore wrote:Although I do not live in New York, I have friends that do. It was real, and our biggest mistake, was not taking out the radical imams that infected the 19 hijackers with their hate, and leveling the mosques from which they preached their hate.

Drawscore

Problem is, too much thinking like that leads to despicable actions like this: apparent arson at a mosque in Orlando, Florida.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fire-breaks- ... 28151.html


Your point is well taken, but time has shown that the only thing the radical Islamists understand, is tactics as vile as their own. I do not condone the firebombing of a mosque, unless there is incontrovertible proof that the mosque is being used as a shelter or cover for terrorists, and/or if the imam leading the mosque, is actively involved in preaching hate and encouraging terrorist activity. In short, it is not wise to try and play nice with assholes that want to behead you.

Drawscore

Re: 9/11

Postby Jason Toddman » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:37 am

True enough, but when we paint with too broad a brush and target an entire group for the actions of a relative few, we begin making the same awful mistakes Europe did in the 1930s with the Jews, gays, Romany, and other minorities of the time.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: 9/11

Postby Oohmynameisblue » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:24 am

WHY DO I EVEN POST IN JUMP IN THE FIRE GAAAAAAAAAH

Re: 9/11

Postby Oohmynameisblue » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:27 am

SolidSnickerdoodle wrote:
Lake Lover wrote:
drawscore wrote:Although I do not live in New York, I have friends that do. It was real, and our biggest mistake, was not taking out the radical imams that infected the 19 hijackers with their hate, and leveling the mosques from which they preached their hate.

Drawscore


That's the way I feel too. Kill the bastards. We should have searched them out and pulverized the city or towns they operated from and which supported their attack, as soon as we were reasonably sure they had anything to do with it or knew about the plans as they were developed and carried out. Sure some innocents would have been exterminated-- tough.

Well this took quite a turn. First and foremost, Drawscore, "Imams" are not a religious organization, or even a population for that matter. So, if you're going to advocate for the targeting of a denomination then please give enough thought to typing their name correctly.

In regards to Lake Lover...
Image

I wouldn't respond with gifs if I were you...

Re: 9/11

Postby Oohmynameisblue » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:30 am

SolidSnickerdoodle wrote:
Oohmynameisblue wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:
Oohmynameisblue wrote:So sad...

YouTube extremists though are like saying the US government made it all up...I don't even know.

You can't believe everything you hear on Youtube. Anyone with even rudimentary critical thinking skills should be able to tell the factual stuff from the nonsense, even when leaving the religious folks out of it. I have seen videos proclaiming such outlandish things such as the moon landings were all faked, the aliens exist and visit us all the time, that lizard people have taken over the government, that the world is flat and gravity a hoax... to say nothing of all the Bigfoot and living Elvis sightings. Some even diss the very science and technology that enables them to post their nonsense online in the first place. It can be hard to pick out the nonsense when you are young (Hell, I believe in Bigfoot and aliens in UFOS as a kid myself; I also believed in angels, demons, and the Word of the Bible, which to me now is just as fantastic). But figuring out what is real and what is a hoax early on will make a big difference in your life; especially if you haven't done so before you begin college. believe me, i should know. I would probably have a much different life and likely a much better life right now had a developed adequate critical thinking skills earlier than i did.

Its not so much I believe what they're saying, it's that I DON'T believe that they would be so stupid as to post something like that, but they do anyway.

While I don't buy into the 9/11 conspiracy theories myself, I do give the people who believe them a little more credit than, say, flat-Earthers.

In the case of flat Earth conspiracy theorists, along with hollow Earth theorists and geocentrism theorists, the group takes on a claim so fundamental and well supported that it flies in the face of everything we know. These groups are often small in number with only a minuscule base actually believing what they preach. They are not interested in the scientific data that has been accumulated over the years, and any attempt by you to shed light on evidence to the contrary is dismissed as you "drinking the government Kool-Aid". Also, it is worth noting that behind every conspiracy theory there is supposedly some underlying motive, some reason to have everyone belief this fabrication. Realistically speaking, I don't see any sort of end game for every world government and scientist group coming together to fake our own model of the universe. I mean, honestly, what's the benefit?

However, I would argue that a 9/11 conspiracy theory is more realistic by comparison. Keep in mind that we're talking about governments here, specifically the US government, and governments, as we know, have agendas. And some of those agendas can by shady.

Like I said, I don't buy into the 9/11 conspiracy theories, but my reasoning behind disagreeing with them is certainly not based in moral principle. It's not because I can't imagine the US government targeting its own citizens because I can. It's not because I believe that the US government is pure in intention and execution because it's not. And it's certainly not because I believe our government puts its people ahead of political influence and wealth. Because it doesn't. (I'm using the word government collectively here. I understand that governments are made up of individual people. I just believe that many of them act in their own self-interest.)

The reason I don't believe the theories is because there's not enough incriminating evidence against the US government to suggest anything other than a terrorist attack. I'm sorry, but a video where you zoom in on a pixelated plane and say "Oh. Look. Those aren't normal plane windows. That's not a commercial plane." is not going to be enough to convince me. But aside from the lack of evidence to support the claims, I genuinely wouldn't put a stunt like this beyond the US government. And that sucks. It's a sad moment when millions of American citizens, in the wake of scandals, political pandering, fraud, and cover-ups, are so desensitized to corruption that we almost don't expect anything less.

But why would the USA hire Al-Qaeda to blow up their own towers?

Re: 9/11

Postby SolidSnickerdoodle » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:24 pm

drawscore wrote:No, SSD. An imam is an Islamic religious leader. Synonyms would be pastor, priest, reverend, minister, and chaplain. The word was correctly spelled and used. Please check your facts and definitions before putting fingers to keyboard.

Don't be the person who proves the adage "There are those that remain silent, and are thought to be fools. There are others that open their mouths (or put their fingers to their keyboards) and remove all doubt."
Drawscore

Well, I stand corrected. You're right. Up until this point I'd never even heard of that term. Then again, I'm not terribly familiar with the hierarchy of Islam. My mistake.
Last edited by SolidSnickerdoodle on Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

Re: 9/11

Postby SolidSnickerdoodle » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:26 pm

Oohmynameisblue wrote:WHY DO I EVEN POST IN JUMP IN THE FIRE GAAAAAAAAAH

Honestly though, what did you expect would happen? :big:
Last edited by SolidSnickerdoodle on Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

Re: 9/11

Postby SolidSnickerdoodle » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:36 pm

Oohmynameisblue wrote:But why would the USA hire Al-Qaeda to blow up their own towers?

Well, that's an example of the lack of factual evidence to the contrary that I'm referencing. You would have to speak to someone who genuinely believes that the 9/11 terror attacks were orchestrated by the US government to hear their answer on that one.

My point was that I don't hold the US government to a terribly high morality standard. Governments and private organizations all over the world have done terrible things in pursuit of profit or power. I don't believe they did it, but it's not because I believe that they would never do something so wrong.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.