Blashphemy

Postby xtc » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:02 am

Joseph Ratzinger has just called for tolerance towards people of religion.
Do you think that includes those of us holding traditional beliefs?
I mean Wicca, or, in my case Ã…satru.
Will we, who have no concept of the Devil, still be considered to be devil worshipers?
Will we no longer be considered blasphemers? I ask this as we have to tolerate (which, on my part I do) the ultimate blasphemy which is monotheism?

By the way, I thought it was my job to be the idolater!
I’m not, but where do I find statues for veneration? I think you all know.

Pope t-shirt, anyone?

Wassail!
xtc
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Blashphemy

Postby anjell » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:31 am

there well never be any tolerance tell more generations are all gone and burred. may sound harsh but it is true as time gos by the younger generations are more excepting, and older generations are the only ones keeping the closed way of thinking. but their is still people that well always call us devil worshipers for reasons simply that it is what they are told going trough life, but they at lest some day can come to see how it is wrong.
Let's use all the colors.
Dust 'em, Pix!
Yup! That tasted purple!

Re: Blashphemy

Postby dreadnaught3200 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:28 pm

Honestly? I think it's somewhat naive to say that all the world's problems are caused by the "Older" generations. Let's face it, the world's problems are caused by simple human nature. Nothing more, nothing less. We as a species have a intrinsic need for adversity. We are always looking to segregate ourselves and oppose someone else. Even (At least in recent years) if it's the so called "Tolerant" against the so called "Intolerant". That's the cause for racism, bullying, religious conflict... everything. And human nature isn't going to change. Sorry.
There's a permanent tension in music isn't there? On one hand you have three chords, you know, four four and three chords. Then there's the people like me, who say "Well, why don't we add a fourth chord and put it in five four?" - Bill Bruford

Re: Blashphemy

Postby anjell » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:47 am

Point taken. And yes i am very naive at the moment lol. I just want to think (and hope) that in the future things well be different.
Let's use all the colors.
Dust 'em, Pix!
Yup! That tasted purple!

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:06 pm

Actually I think Anjell had a good point. Things have changed slowly over the centuries but they have changed. After all, it was probably younger people who came up with the idea of abolioshing such time-honored traditions as human sacrifice, slavery, child labor, and denying the vote to anyone who wasn't a white male adult. Maybe the day will come when everyone truly will have equal rights under the law - such as gay people and those with different beliefs.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Blashphemy

Postby snobound » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:58 pm

xtc wrote:Joseph Ratzinger has just called for tolerance towards people of religion.
Do you think that includes those of us holding traditional beliefs?
I mean Wicca, or, in my case Ã…satru.
Will we, who have no concept of the Devil, still be considered to be devil worshipers?
Will we no longer be considered blasphemers? I ask this as we have to tolerate (which, on my part I do) the ultimate blasphemy which is monotheism?

By the way, I thought it was my job to be the idolater!
I’m not, but where do I find statues for veneration? I think you all know.

Pope t-shirt, anyone?

Wassail!
xtc



Exactly how do you go about pronouncing that letter A with the little circle over it? What language family is it from?


BTW... the Pope's a dope! I wouldn't put much stock in his ramblings. Worship as you see fit, to whom you see fit. Too much blood has been shed over storybooks and hallucinations.
Try out the TUGs chat! http://chat.mibbit.com/#tugsnet

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Kyle » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:03 pm

There's a difference between tolerating someone's beliefs and accepting them.

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:49 pm

Kyle wrote:There's a difference between tolerating someone's beliefs and accepting them.

Quite true. But as far as I am concerned, I am willing to accept the beliefs of anyone as long as it causes me (or anyone else) no harm. If for instance someone wants to worship Thor or Zeus, who the heck am I to say they can't? If Adam prefers Steve to Eve, that's their business. As long as no one tries to force their beliefs on someone else directly or bring back such things as human sacrifice or otherwise hurt other people, everyone should just accept them and leave them be.
One reason I stopped being an actively church-going Christian is because so many other Christians were such arrogant, intolerant, closed-minded busybodies!!! I'll take the company of an easygoing, open-minded pagan any day!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Blashphemy

Postby xtc » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:18 am

Snobound – I transliterated wrongly in an attempt to draw a parallel with a known Scandinavian name. Inadequate information. The language is Icelandic, which is VERY close to Anglo-Saxon. The preferred characters are Ásatrú; imagine the Swedish Chef from the Muppets saying “aus-a-true”. God – troth or faith in the Gods (Æsir).

Jason – yes I like to think of myself as an open-minded pagan. I sometimes call myself a sceptical pagan after a significant lesson taught to me at about 15 years old by a clairaudient and clairvoyant Wise Woman.

As Snorri Sturluson (I believe) wrote:

In the name of the Most High,
The Equally High and the Higher Still,
Blessed be,
xtc
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Blashphemy

Postby snobound » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:24 pm

xtc: That Sweedish Chef reference was too damn funny.... and it actually helped! I've got some googling to do- I'm intrigued.


Jason said: One reason I stopped being an actively church-going Christian is because so many other Christians were such arrogant, intolerant, closed-minded busybodies!!! I'll take the company of an easygoing, open-minded pagan any day!

I couldn't agree more, and my recent experiences with my evangelical Lutheran neighbors has only reinforced this belief.
Try out the TUGs chat! http://chat.mibbit.com/#tugsnet

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Kyle » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:34 pm

Jason Toddman wrote:
Kyle wrote:There's a difference between tolerating someone's beliefs and accepting them.

Quite true. But as far as I am concerned, I am willing to accept the beliefs of anyone as long as it causes me (or anyone else) no harm. If for instance someone wants to worship Thor or Zeus, who the heck am I to say they can't? If Adam prefers Steve to Eve, that's their business. As long as no one tries to force their beliefs on someone else directly or bring back such things as human sacrifice or otherwise hurt other people, everyone should just accept them and leave them be.
One reason I stopped being an actively church-going Christian is because so many other Christians were such arrogant, intolerant, closed-minded busybodies!!! I'll take the company of an easygoing, open-minded pagan any day!


I think you sort of understood what I meant but not the wording. What I mean is more or less like what you said about allowing people to believe what they want (within reason) but what I meant by not accepting them is I don't have to accept your beliefs as true. I probably should have explained it better.

Though, also on the same line of thought, trying to persuade someone to accept your views is not the same thing as forcing them on others.

Re: Blashphemy

Postby BlackWingedAngel » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:18 am

The thing is, there are going to be people in every group that give all the other people a bad name. I am a Christian. I have done some things that I am not proud of in my life. There are some things that I do not admit to. Just because I am a Christian, however, does not give me to the right to judge others. I will listen to the beliefs of others, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I will give my honest opinion in those areas. I don't want people to not know what my beliefs are. I should be able to share them. But sharing and forcing are two different things and unfortunately, most people have forgotten that.
I'm a girl
I want to be the submissive victim

I am such a total bondage newb

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:35 am

Kyle wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:
Kyle wrote:There's a difference between tolerating someone's beliefs and accepting them.

Quite true. But as far as I am concerned, I am willing to accept the beliefs of anyone as long as it causes me (or anyone else) no harm. If for instance someone wants to worship Thor or Zeus, who the heck am I to say they can't? If Adam prefers Steve to Eve, that's their business. As long as no one tries to force their beliefs on someone else directly or bring back such things as human sacrifice or otherwise hurt other people, everyone should just accept them and leave them be.
One reason I stopped being an actively church-going Christian is because so many other Christians were such arrogant, intolerant, closed-minded busybodies!!! I'll take the company of an easygoing, open-minded pagan any day!


I think you sort of understood what I meant but not the wording. What I mean is more or less like what you said about allowing people to believe what they want (within reason) but what I meant by not accepting them is I don't have to accept your beliefs as true. I probably should have explained it better.

Though, also on the same line of thought, trying to persuade someone to accept your views is not the same thing as forcing them on others.


I very much agree with you on this point; and you're right I wasn't quite certain by your wording what you meant.
I don't feel I have to agree with someone's beliefs in, say, worshipping Thor to accept their right to do so themselves; they should be allowed to believe whatever they find comforts them. I don't just tolerate - that implies some of tacit (and undeserved) superiority over another person - I accept. When I debated with Cricks about his Mormon beliefs, I never questioned his right to believe Mormonism; just asked him *why* he believed. Like most believers in something (regardless of the religion), he could not come up with any answer that would remotely convince a skeptic. But I still respect his beliefs all the same even though I do not share them.
Of course, when someone expresses a belief that implies some people are inferior or undeserving of equal rights under the law in some ways, like Staythirstmyfriends with his anti-gay bias, that's a whole different kettle of fish. If people like him don't want to associate with gays, that's his business (and his right), but saying they shouldn't be allowed to marry - well, that's his right too actually but beliefs like that I do NOT respect. Any more than I'd respect someone who disses blacks, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and so on. I do not accept people who are non-accepting (or at least tolerating) of others; such people usually aren't very nice people themselves anyway and are likely toi l,ook down on Tuggers too besides! They may have a right to say what they like, but I have the right to disagree with them - strenuously. But again of course I can't (and wouldn't) force my beliefs on them any more than they can on me. That's the tricky part of free will, I suppose.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chris12 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:51 pm

Well if you'r worshipping Thor then you deserve to be laughted at because Thor is a kind of a douche :worried: maybe if he tried to be a god you'd want to worship it would be allright

Re: Blashphemy

Postby xtc » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:06 pm

Chris12,
I think you misunderstand:
Thor is the "middle" element of our trilogy: the God of Thunder and of Marriage.
Some of us take Baldur, Thor and Odin as the three-fold God in the same way as Wiccans (I believe) recognise Maiden, Mother and Crone.

It's a bit disrespectful to refer to Thor as a "Douche" which, I presume, is condemnatory (and probably doesn't have much to do with the shower).

Sorry Chris, the Gods don't care but I take exception.

Or are you refering to some other Thor?


Nevertheless, my thanks to everyone who has followed this thread. There's nothing like the exchange of ideas between open-minded people.

Blessed be (Yes, Chris, even you!)
xtc
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:14 pm

xtc wrote:Chris12,
I think you misunderstand:
Thor is the "middle" element of our trilogy: the God of Thunder and of Marriage.
Some of us take Baldur, Thor and Odin as the three-fold God in the same way as Wiccans (I believe) recognise Maiden, Mother and Crone.

It's a bit disrespectful to refer to Thor as a "Douche" which, I presume, is condemnatory (and probably doesn't have much to do with the shower).

Sorry Chris, the Gods don't care but I take exception.

Or are you refering to some other Thor?


Nevertheless, my thanks to everyone who has followed this thread. There's nothing like the exchange of ideas between open-minded people.

Blessed be (Yes, Chris, even you!)
xtc


Maybe he's just thinking of that lame Marvel comics character which was - rather inaccurately - based on the Norse God! :mrgreen: He perhaps didn't realize Thor really is still worshipped by some people?!?
Anyway Chris; that was just meant as an example. Though I never expected to hear words of religious intolerance from *you*!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Blashphemy

Postby xtc » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:33 pm

Yes, in all honesty. I believe that is his misaprehension too!
But it's never a bad idea to point out that Marvel Comics are not the originals! MInd you, they're quite fun if one can become disjoint from (?with?) one's intelect for a while.

The Professor already has business with that young man for being so popular.
Better him than Loki!

Wassail!
xtc
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Wedgieboy14 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:19 pm

Maybe Cris is refering about the occasion that Thor kicked an dwarf who annoyed im in a funeral pyre.

Or when he went fishing with someone he slayed his best oax to use it as bait.

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chris12 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:21 pm

Yeah those defionately came to mind.

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chase Ricks » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:27 pm

Actually I thought Chris was referring to when Thor is battling Fenrir, and his arm is bitten off entirely. I know a bit of Norse history and Ragnarok is not here yet thank goodness!
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chris12 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:28 pm

Shane Bikman wrote:Actually I thought Chris was referring to when Thor is battling Fenrir, and his arm is bitten off entirely. I know a bit of Norse history and Ragnarok is not here yet thank goodness!


That was another god

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chase Ricks » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:33 pm

Chris12 wrote:
Shane Bikman wrote:Actually I thought Chris was referring to when Thor is battling Fenrir, and his arm is bitten off entirely. I know a bit of Norse history and Ragnarok is not here yet thank goodness!


That was another god


Yes I know. I only posted that to see if you were paying attention or not Chris.
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chris12 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:36 pm

No you didn't :roll:

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:38 pm

Chris12 wrote:
Shane Bikman wrote:Actually I thought Chris was referring to when Thor is battling Fenrir, and his arm is bitten off entirely. I know a bit of Norse history and Ragnarok is not here yet thank goodness!


That was another god


Odin, if memory serves me correctly; and not just his arm but the whole God gets swallowed whole! That's the version *I* remember anyway.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chase Ricks » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:41 pm

Chris12 wrote:No you didn't :roll:


Chris I am really being honest about this. Yes I know that Fenrir and Hel serve Loki and that Yggdrasil is the Tree that supports all of Asgard. Odin chose to cast out his entire right eye in order to drink from the Fountain of Knowledge.
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:27 pm

Shane Bikman wrote:
Chris12 wrote:No you didn't :roll:


Chris I am really being honest about this. Yes I know that Fenrir and Hel serve Loki and that Yggdrasil is the Tree that supports all of Asgard. Odin chose to cast out his entire right eye in order to drink from the Fountain of Knowledge.

And what in blazes does all that have to do with anything?!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Chase Ricks » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:03 pm

deleted by self.
Last edited by Chase Ricks on Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:13 am

That was about as informative as a poke in the eye, Cricks! Thank you so very much. :roll:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Blashphemy

Postby xtc » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:39 am

Tyr (or Tue as in Tuesday) placed his arm into Fenrir's mouth as a token of good faith, as the wolf was bound. When Fenrir could not break his boundss, Tyr lost his arm. Tyr has many attributes but is usally considerd a martial God (cf mardi in French is the day of Mars - also Tuesday).
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Blashphemy

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:21 am

xtc wrote:Tyr (or Tue as in Tuesday) placed his arm into Fenrir's mouth as a token of good faith, as the wolf was bound. When Fenrir could not break his boundss, Tyr lost his arm. Tyr has many attributes but is usally considerd a martial God (cf mardi in French is the day of Mars - also Tuesday).


Oh Heck yes I should have remembered that; the same thing happened in a Marvel comic book way back when ionvolving the same toiw characters.
Honest, it did; only I didn't consider the comic book source of info trustworthy. Silly me. I guess Marvel wasn't*always* full of it! Just *most* of the time!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...