Gary Johnson 2012

Postby TUfriend » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:27 pm

So, for those of you who don't know, Gary Johnson is the presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party in the 2012 election for president of the United States(POTUS). Now, there is no chance for Gary to win the election(unfortunately), but he could steal a lot of votes from Mitt Romney and have an affect on the electoral vote. Do you think this is good that third parties can be represented like this, or bad that they steal votes from candidates with close platforms that have a better chance of winning?

Personally, I support him because, although I think Romney could fix the economy, Romney's stance on the social issues is too strong. For example Romney wants to make it a constitutional amendment that marriage is defined as a one man and one woman. This would set the gay rights movement 4 years back and put it on hold for possibly 8.
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Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Chris12 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:51 am

If people want to vote for third parties they should be able too.

I think more then two actual parties will be good for the states so who knows, maybe one of those third parties will grow into that one day.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby the other one » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:54 pm

I don't know if he can do something, but he can't be worse than Obama or Romny

I like it, that there is now a third party, because you can put the Republicans and the Democrats in the same corner. I Hope a least this party tries to get in an other corner.
“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”


Bertrand Russell

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Kyle » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:12 pm

There have always been other parties, they just don't usually get any attention.

If he steals votes from Romney, that pretty much guarantees Obama the election.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:30 pm

I dunno if I like third party candidates... if it weren't for Ralph Nader stealing votes froimm the Democrat party candidate in 2000 and 2004, we might not have endured eight years of George Bush!!! If it happens again and Romney wins because of it.... GRRRRR!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Kyle » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:35 pm

The problem with most third-party candidates is they're usually either too radical or too focused on one issue to appeal to most voters.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby the other one » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:16 am

Jason Toddman wrote:I dunno if I like third party candidates... if it weren't for Ralph Nader stealing votes froimm the Democrat party candidate in 2000 and 2004, we might not have endured eight years of George Bush!!! If it happens again and Romney wins because of it.... GRRRRR!!!


You are kidding? Obama was as bad as Bush!, and Romney will be the same.
“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”


Bertrand Russell

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:01 pm

the other one wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:I dunno if I like third party candidates... if it weren't for Ralph Nader stealing votes froimm the Democrat party candidate in 2000 and 2004, we might not have endured eight years of George Bush!!! If it happens again and Romney wins because of it.... GRRRRR!!!


You are kidding? Obama was as bad as Bush!, and Romney will be the same.

Did I say otherwise? :quirk: But Obama wasn't the one running against Bush either time. Of course, Al Core and whatisname Kerry would have been no bargains either, but I doubt they'd have been as heavy-handed as Bush was on foreign policy, and Gore probably would NOT have gotten us embroiled in Iraq! In any case, regardless of his politics, Johnson doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning. Too many people are psychologically wedded to the two-party system to vote outside of it.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby elusinius » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:13 am

I remember that Gore Vidal referred to the Republican and Democratic
parties as the two wings of the property party.

Would that the USA had a labor or a social democratic party
to represent working people!

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby sarobah » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:09 pm

The problem with third party and independent candidates is that in a first-past-the-post voting system (e.g. the US and UK) they act as spoilers if they have no chance of winning. That was Ralph Nader in 2000. If he hadn’t run, Al Gore would certainly have been elected President. The sinister aspect is that in many states Nader’s campaign was funded by large donations from Republican Party supporters (as it was in 2004 as well).
However, the people who voted for Nader were exercising their democratic right.

In Australia we have preferential voting. If you want to vote for a minor party or candidate who has little hope of winning, your vote isn’t wasted because you can transfer it to another party or candidate. No one gets elected without 50+% of the votes. And parties don’t put up phony candidates to split the vote of their rivals.
(Other countries have forms of proportional representation, but I think the Australian system offers the best of both worlds – it still allows members of parliament to represent individual districts).
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:38 pm

Sounds like a wiser system than what we have here in the states right now, Sarobah.
Every four years (on off-election years like 2010) my state votes for its Governor. This last time something like six or eight people ran for the office. The winner this last time was a dumbass conservative ultra-pro-business Republican named Paul Lepage, who won with about 35% of the vote!!! He is without a doubt the worst governor Maine has ever had! He's the one that's made national news for such things as telling the NAACP to kiss his butt and comparing the IRS to the Gestapo. He's actually turning down federal funding for the Medicaid system while trying to reduce enrollment in it, just because he opposes Obama's Affordable Heath Care Act - causing the poor to suffer just to make his point. IOW he's a dopey bastard.
I hope to God (if there is one) that LePage never gets re-elected; he is ruining Maine's reputation as most moderate state in the US and making it even harder for the numerous poorer people who live here.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby truly_trussed » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:35 pm

sarobah wrote: but I think the Australian system offers the best of both worlds


Hi Sarobah, don't forget the secret ballot is known as the Australian Ballot. I also understand voting is mandatory down under. If you don't vote it's something like a traffic ticket fine and then increases until you get back to the polls. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the turnout something like 95%?

Isn't the Labor Party in power now? It's spelled the American way rather then Labour because they admired the American Labor Movement which gave the U.S. the strongest middle-class ever from 1947 to around 1977. I've also heard Prime Minister Gillard put in a living minimum wage which is $16 an hour. I don't hear much of the politicians up here. The first time I heard about your PM was on a religious right talk show where they complained about her living with her partner without the benefit of clergy. They noted Todd Palin is known as the First Dude as Prime Minister Gillard's partner is called the First Bloke!

Sarobah, I'm glad you really love the U.S. If you can't spend a few years living here I hope you can at least give us an extended visit. I'm sure your to do list includes the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. I hope you get to try a gigantic corn beef sandwich at the Carnegie Deli in Manhattan, a Philly Cheesteak from Pat's King of Steaks in South Philly and a chili burger from Original Tommy's in the L.A. area. UCLA students say if you get drunk the night before you don't remember, unless you go to Tommy's- then you don't forget. If you include Canada in your itinerary let me know and I'll tell you where to get the best poutine. If I ever make it your island just let me know where the best vegemite sandwich is made. Take care, T.T.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby burner59 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:07 pm

I just personally don't like Mitt Romney because when I was watching his speech for the Republican party, he had that smug look on his face that clearly said, "hello, I'm lying, and rich, and you're poor and I'm gonna raise taxes on you," I hate him.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Kyle » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:32 pm

Romney definitely isn't the most likeable guy to ever run for president. Although, if you're voting based on who you think is more likeable, you probably shouldn't be voting.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby sarobah » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:35 am

truly_trussed wrote:(everything)


I have tried to find something to disagree with you here (because that’s the way I am!) and I cannot. Well done!
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby sarobah » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:41 am

Jason Toddman wrote:I hope to God (if there is one) that LePage never gets re-elected; he is ruining Maine's reputation as most moderate state in the US and making it even harder for the numerous poorer people who live here.

That happened in my state – Queensland. In one election we went from the most progressive state in the country to a laughing stock. And since then, in six months, the economy has collapsed. Congratulations, citizens!
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Vukk » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:04 am

I wish America used the preferential way to vote. What is different in many countries is the leader of their country is what John Boehner is, the leader of their house of representatives. It is easier to get a small group into congress, such as the 'Tea Party' than it is get a majority. And US has had 3 parties in the past. They didn't work well.

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby bookl0ver » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:58 am

i don't give a damn about america as long as you have enough sense to vote for obama and NOT rommey. Cos obama's the only decent choice really.
DIRECTIONER FOR LIFE!
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Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Chase Ricks » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:19 am

bookl0ver wrote:i don't give a damn about america as long as you have enough sense to vote for obama and NOT rommey. Cos obama's the only decent choice really.


I could deluge this forum and others in Jump in the Fire with image examples taken from Facebook of why Obama does not deserve a second chance as President of the United States but that would be so unfair to everyone here. Aren't I a nice guy? :)
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Jason Toddman » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:05 am

Chase Ricks wrote:I could deluge this forum and others in Jump in the Fire with image examples taken from Facebook of why Obama does not deserve a second chance as President of the United States but that would be so unfair to everyone here. Aren't I a nice guy? :)

No... it just means you're not totally tasteless.
Anyway, ONE Drawscore here is enough!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby the other one » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:34 pm

Neither Obama nor Romney is a choice that would help the USA.
The election between the two of them is like is a choice between shit and manure.
“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”


Bertrand Russell

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Jason Toddman » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:34 pm

the other one wrote:Neither Obama nor Romney is a choice that would help the USA.
The election between the two of them is like is a choice between shit and manure.

Not a pleasant way to say it but... yeah, that's essentially the case.
It's a repeat of 2004, when it was the incumbent Bush Jr versus John (Frankenstein) Kerry. Gawd! As with Romney, you'd think the opposition could do better! The imcumbent party essentially has only one choice, while the opposition party can have its pick from millions of people - and look what they picked each time!!! The Dems blew it in 2004, and so a crummy president handily defeated an even crummier opponent, and it's going to happen again in 2012. %&*$#@!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby bookl0ver » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 am

Isn't rommey a homophombic sexist and down right stuck up prat? Tell me i'm wrong my american friends.
DIRECTIONER FOR LIFE!
NIALL HORAN'S FUTURE WIFE

Also addicted to slash. ^,^

Re: Gary Johnson 2012

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:28 am

bookl0ver wrote:Isn't rommey a homophombic sexist and down right stuck up prat? Tell me i'm wrong my american friends.

I assume you mean homophobic. In any case that's a matter of interpretation.
*I* don't have a particular problem with that interpretation (in fact I think it fits many conservative Republican politicians - and church pastors) , but others might.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...