Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby wataru14 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:41 pm

With VP Mike Pence casting the tiebreaking vote, Betsy DeVos was approved as Secretary of Education today. To be perfectly honest, I'm not surprised this happened (I've never been disappointed when looking for the worst in people), but I am a little shocked at the blatancy of it. It's like they're not even trying to hide the corruption anymore. And with a bill in the House to completely eliminate the Department of Education in its entirety (proposed the same day as the vote), it seems pretty clear that DeVos was not selected to run the DofE, but to dismantle it.

We are witnessing the beginnings of a Fundamentalist Christian coup against the United States and personally, I don' think we have the power to stop it anymore. It's only going to get worse from here, folks.

Thoughts?

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby Mask6184 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:42 pm

It's way too early to know what her impact on education is really going to be like, and she is not the first Education Secretary to have no prior experience in the education sector ( 3 other Education Secretaries have no prior experience in Education).

Personally, I see the Department of Education as useless. It's another arm in a complex control over education with state and local governments, teacher's, and parents. It hasn't helped with the cost of college. It has initiated failed programs such as No Child Left Behind, and has tried to encourage the one size fits all Common Core curriculum in a diverse nation where each student's education needs are different.

The education system in the US needs a major revamp, and that has to start with the student, and not the bureaucrats at the top.

Also, I find the idea of a Fundamentalist Christian coup via education difficult considering many professors and teachers, and students lean to the left in political and moral philosophy. Heck, if such moves start to happen, courts will try to block them on 1st amendment grounds.

In the end, no one knows what the heck is going to happen.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby MisterBones » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:02 pm

She advocates for child labor and wants to replace public schools with charter schools, which would prevent poorer children from getting the education they need. And if their parents DO take out loans to pay for school, they're now in student debt BEFORE college!
Sure, the education from private schools is excellent, but billionaires seem to forget not everyone can afford it. It's sort of a "let them eat cake" scenario.
I have ocs or whatever

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby wataru14 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:49 pm

It doesn't matter how far left teachers lean when they are restrained by the law from talking about evolution or climate change. Then if kids never kearn about it...

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby Valimure » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:52 pm

Why should they need to hide the corruption? People are, in general, blind to any wrongdoing in their party. Democrats are the same, though I do hold the belief that left-leaning people have a greater capacity for compassion and a better vision of the future than right-wingers.

People voted in Trump knowing full well he was full of shit. There was so much evidence from the get-go about how he'd say and do anything to get himself elected, and people still voted for him.

They don't need to cover anything up because people STILL somehow believe that these moneyed interests are "working for them".

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby fratboydanny » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:57 pm

I usually do not engage in these conversations but I really have no choice on this topic. I really do not understand how people come up with the things they say or write. I am a history teacher. I teach in a charter school. Charter Schools are Public Schools. They are not some nefarious plot to destroy public education. They are designed to be alternatives to the existing traditional public schools. Education is not a one size fits all endeavor. Each child is unique. Each child has their own gifts. Each child should be able to attend the school that best suits their needs and desires. I view Mrs. DeVos quite favorably because she has made it her business to advocate for all students to have a choice in where they attend school.

The school I teach in is an inner city school. The student population is mostly minority and almost entirely poor. We graduate over 90% of our students. The traditional schools near us are at about 65%. So our school, authorized by a university, provides opportunity and hope where there would be none if we did not exist. Hopefully Mrs. DeVos can help turn the focus from adults and their buildings and bureaucracies toward the students and providing them the educational settings and opportunities they deserve.

Oh, and the thing about the true choice in education she advocates is to ensure that not only billionaires can choose schools for their children but that poor students are not subjugated into only certain traditional schools when their parents or guardians want so much more for them. Thus the government provides financial assistance to help the poor with those choices.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby wataru14 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:51 am

In an inner city, they might work since many things will be in close proximity to each other. You can get from home to school by bus or subway in 10 minutes. But in places like rural Nebraska (where the GOP base lives), there aren't any "alternative schools" for 200 miles. So now you have Nebraska High losing some of its already meager federal funding because now charter schools can dip into the pot. Students have no actual choice because there is no where for them to physically go. How are poor parents in rural areas with limited transportation options supposed to send their kids to a school 200 miles away? The only "school choice" people will have is religious schools, which should not receive any federal funding whatsoever (I'm not completely convinced they should be allowed to exist at all, but that's another topic).

Charter schools also do not have to hire certified teachers. They must become certified within a certain timeframe or the DOE can shut the school down, but that soon won't be a problem since (as I said), a bill was submitted that will eliminate the DOE entirely. No more oversight. No more obstacles for a series of federally funded religiously affiliated schools pushing the party lines of Creationism and climate-change denial on kids with impunity. Fits into Pence's narrative quite well.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos

Postby fratboydanny » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:01 am

Wow. You are pretty extreme on these matters. Don't know if religious schools that have been in operation since the US was just a colony and way before traditional public schools existed should be allowed? As an educator who believes parents and guardians decide what is best not government, I respect your views but am grateful that is not official policy.

I am headed back to talking about TUGS.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby Chris12 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:14 am

I am a history teacher


That makes you have the coolest job on the board! cheers

Ahem. I'll refrain from any in debt answer because I just don't know the Education situation in America. But if this woman is bad for education then it might be a deliberate choice. A dumb population is a boon for any populist party and if they can make them dumber then their numbers will rise. Populist parties generally thrive by support of the lower educated. Intelligent populist voters do exist, they might not even be rare but the bread and butter of Populist parties are those that are of low educations who are more easily conned.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby Mask6184 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:41 pm

MisterBones wrote:She advocates for child labor and wants to replace public schools with charter schools, which would prevent poorer children from getting the education they need. And if their parents DO take out loans to pay for school, they're now in student debt BEFORE college!
Sure, the education from private schools is excellent, but billionaires seem to forget not everyone can afford it. It's sort of a "let them eat cake" scenario.



Even if the federal government stays out of education, state and local governments can still keep the public school system running in their areas, with the advantage they're no longer tied to federal government bureaucracy.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby wataru14 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:46 pm

Do you want Creationism taught in schools as fact? Because that is how you get Creationism taught in schools as fact. Two states have it specifically allowed in their state constitutions and as of 2014, 11 more (as well as DC) had charter schools teaching it. That number will increase dramatically if there was no federal oversight. Do you want us to regress back into the Dark Ages? Because that is what's going to happen.

"Our desire is to confront the culture in ways that will continue to advance God's kingdom" - Betsy DeVos. These are not words that should be coming out of the mouth of someone who is in charge of public education.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby fratboydanny » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:05 pm

Being a little over the top aren't we? Dark Ages? Seriously?

The U.S. is a nation founded on the principle of Federalism. There is a role, as outlined by the Constitution, for the federal government. As Article X states, all other matters not delineated by the Constitution are the purview of the state's or the people. Education has historically been under the purview of the states. The federal government has a limited role to play in education. Parents are the primary educators of their children. Not government. The role of government, no matter the level, should be to support the parents as they make the decision they believe is best for their child. It is not the role of government to dictate to anyone what school they should attend. And, it is not the role of the federal government to dictate curriculum. That is best decided at the local level.

Lastly, Betsy DeVos is the Secretary of the Department of Education. It is not the Department of Public Education. She has a responsibility for the educational well being of All students regardless of the setting in which they are educated. It is inconceivable to me that anyone would think that only students who attend certain schools are of value.
Last edited by fratboydanny on Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby wataru14 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:54 pm

"Dark Ages? Seriously?"

Yes. Seriously. 42% of Americans are Young Earth Creationists. That number is only going to increase. I cannot stress enough how disastrous this is.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby Kyle » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:28 am

wataru14 wrote:
We are witnessing the beginnings of a Fundamentalist Christian coup against the United States


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, I hope you didn't injure yourself in jumping to that conclusion.

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby Mask6184 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:57 am

wataru14 wrote:"Dark Ages? Seriously?"

Yes. Seriously. 42% of Americans are Young Earth Creationists. That number is only going to increase. I cannot stress enough how disastrous this is.


Where did you hear that 42% are Creationists?

Re: Thoughts on DeVos?

Postby fratboydanny » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:33 pm

:oops:
wataru14 wrote: The only "school choice" people will have is religious schools, which should not receive any federal funding whatsoever (I'm not completely convinced they should be allowed to exist at all, but that's another topic).


This quote has bothered me since I read it last week. You do realize that in America the Constitution rules and that the First Amendment protects the Free Exercise of Religion?

Throughout history the Know Nothings, the KKK, politicians like Maine Republican James G. Blaine have tried to suppress religious schools. The Constitution has always protected the existence of such schools. In 1925 the US Supreme Court heard arguments in a case, Pierce v Society of Sisters, from Oregon on a law that mandated students attend public schools. In a unanimous decision the Court ruled the law unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment saying, "The child is not the mere creature of the state." Learn more here: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/268us510

Again, my point is that each child is different and that parents are the only ones who should choose where they attend school. Governments chief responsibility is to support that choice. While both of President Obama's appointees supported limited public school choice, having a Secretary of Education who understands the principle of full and complete parental choice is refreshing.

The USA is a pluralistic nation that has always and should always respect a multitude of educational, social service and health care providers. To do otherwise is to reject pluralism and think that one size fits all is best. As a teacher I cannot think of a worse scenario.