School Dress Code

Postby Jay Feely » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:03 am

Should dress code in school be abolished? I can understand when a student is suspended for having breasts showing but to be suspended for having a shirt with a gun, is not even something that should be disciplined in America.
You will have to subdue me to restrain me. I been a bad boy so make sure you torture me too with anything but pain.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby Fan_Of_Blindfolds » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 am

This is kind of a false dichotomy. If we assume that disciplining someone for a shirt with a gun is too extreme, then a dress code that does so should be amended, but that says nothing about other dress codes.

(My stance is that all schools should have a dress code that prevents attire that will distract other students too much, and that private schools may adopt something on top of that, because if you're going to a private school it's something you're choosing.)

Re: School Dress Code

Postby ProfessorRemnant » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:36 am

I guess it really depends on the dress code.
School uniforms, it really depends on the uniforms. Some are rather pleasant, others are very...totalitarian.
In my youth, I knew one kid who got in trouble for wearing a shirt that said "brown pride" on it. That's it, Brown Pride, a brown shirt. Obviously, there is a slight racial canotation, and thats understandable. That can cause problems.
So there IS some logic behind it. And there NEEDS to be logic and reason behind it.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby Antonius97 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:43 pm

I understand it to an extent. Our principal banned headbands this year. This is where I think it goes from "Let's keep a nice learning environment," to "Let's show the kids that we're in control, because we can!"
I didn't choose the TUG life, the TUG life chose me.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby Kyle » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:47 am

Dress codes have their place. But they can get very overbearing. Kids (mostly girls) wearing too short shorts (or skirts) in school were treated as if they'd committed some terrible act. When I went to college, plenty of girls wore very short shorts. Nobody got hurt or died from it. I don't really understand the zeal they enforce some of these rules.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby xtc » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:36 pm

Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:09 pm

There are several overlapping issues:
Should there be any dress code at all? Why or why not?
If so, how strict should it be? What level of enforcement is appropriate?
If strict, when does it become a uniform? What are the pros and cons?
If a uniform, how prescriptive should it be? What level of enforcement is appropriate?
Should there be different rules according to age and gender? Why or why not?
What concessions should be made to fashion, social standards, cultural mores, etc.?
Should the rules extend to non-dress issues (hair, make-up, jewellery, etc.)?

I spent a significant part of my high school years discussing and debating these issues.
Rarely did the decision-makers reach an agreement, let alone a consensus.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby trak82 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:28 am

ım against school uniforms. why Pupils wear uniforms like employees? many school administrators use this dress code very strictly. Chıldren feel like their freedom under pressure.
There are 2 strong dissenting opinions. 1. children compete each other. it cause financial burden for families. Yes it is true .but if we limit the free dress ,children dont have a chance to compete easily. For instance ,we will only allow to wear shirt and corduroy pants and skirts .the other cloth types will be banned. Second view is this is one of the society rule. But they dont think people can change these undated rules. Dont we always change public laws for democracy and freedom . Society rules shouldnt be dogmatic like religion but it should adopt for our century conditions.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby truly_trussed » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:45 pm

ProfessorRemnant wrote:School uniforms, it really depends on the uniforms. Some are rather pleasant


Face it, school uniforms are popular long after the students graduate. I've seen restaurants have "Back to School Night" where the female servers wear Catholic high school uniforms with the short skirts and high socks. Some Hooters restaurants have those theme nights.

After graduation some savvy students keep the uniforms for RP and Cosplay as adults.

Up until about 2006 High School Catholic Girls in Toronto wore kilts as part of the uniform. They're not mandatory anymore but I still saw a few brave girls wearing them on my last visit. I did notice one time a girl put all her textbooks under one arm and used her other hand to push her skirt to cover her panties as she rode the up escalator in a Toronto Subway station. I don't think they were allowed to wear pants even on the coldest Toronto winter days. If any Canadians could chime in, let me know the status of Catholic Schoolgirl Uniforms in your hometown today.

For a lot of guys this is ingrained in our psyche because these were our classmates around the time we were developing sexually. What say you? T.T.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby drawscore » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:18 pm

There are good points on each side of the issue. I can see a strictly enforced dress or uniform code in inner city schools, where kids have been beat up, or even killed, over the shoes or shirts they were wearing. But, like any law, a dress code should be enforced with some degree of intelligence and common sense.

It might be a First Amendment violation to come down on a student wearing a shirt with the picture of a gun, and captioned "Protect the Second Amendment." On the other hand, if some kid shows up with a T-shirt from Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church, emblazoned with "God Hates Fags," then I can see it being regarded by school officials as being "disruptive to a learning environment," "inappropriate," and "deliberately intended to start a fight or argument," and therefore, the school officials would be within their responsibilities to have it removed.

What many do not understand, is that rights are not absolute, and that they come with responsibilities. "The right to swing your fist through the air, ends at the point of my chin," or "Freedom of speech does not give one the right to yell 'fire!' in a crowded theater." The ones that do not understand this, follow and enforce the dictates of political correctness to the letter, and give no leeway to common sense, or even intelligence.

Drawscore

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:10 pm

truly_trussed wrote:Face it, school uniforms are popular long after the students graduate. I've seen restaurants have "Back to School Night" where the female servers wear Catholic high school uniforms with the short skirts and high socks. Some Hooters restaurants have those theme nights.
After graduation some savvy students keep the uniforms for RP and Cosplay as adults.

The “School Disco” clubbing phenomenon was big a few years ago. Does anyone remember the website http://www.schooldisco.com ? It’s now defunct.

Up until about 2006 High School Catholic Girls in Toronto wore kilts as part of the uniform. They're not mandatory anymore but I still saw a few brave girls wearing them on my last visit. I did notice one time a girl put all her textbooks under one arm and used her other hand to push her skirt to cover her panties as she rode the up escalator in a Toronto Subway station. I don't think they were allowed to wear pants even on the coldest Toronto winter days.

It makes me chuckle the way you Canadians and USians carry on about Catholic Schoolgirls :o)
In my corner of the world, the majority of ALL girls wear uniform kilts (though we call them tartan skirts). Yes, that included me, and yes they were compulsory.

Drawscore, I agree with most of what you say… but for two things.
drawscore wrote:I can see a strictly enforced dress or uniform code in inner city schools, where kids have been beat up, or even killed…

One of the advantages of the Australian system is that school uniforms are almost universal. So whether you agree with them or not, everyone is in the same boater, so to speak. (Bad pun… sorry. Only the kids in a few private schools wear boaters.)

I am assuming that uniforms are more popular in private schools in the US and Canada, but as for public schools… If uniforms were only introduced into “problem” schools, then they will quickly become associated with bad schools and thus bad kids. Children will be stigmatized by what they wear, which contradicts one of the best arguments FOR uniforms, that they reduce class divisions and prejudices.

The ones that do not understand this, follow and enforce the dictates of political correctness to the letter, and give no leeway to common sense, or even intelligence.

I wish people would avoid using the term “political correctness”, which has become a meaningless term of abuse. After all, one can cite “politically correct” arguments in favour of uniforms and dress codes, “politically correct” arguments against them, “politically incorrect” arguments for and against them. In other words, I hear constantly that school uniforms are both “politically correct” AND “politically incorrect.”
There are serious arguments, as well as fatuous arguments, but each should be evaluated on its own merits, not according to some nebulous, overused phrase which holds no valuable information content.
End of gripe:o)
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby Mister Mistoffelees » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:53 pm

For certain people, sarobah, "PC" or "political correctness" is nothing but a buzzword plastered over anything the speaker/poster doesn't like. It's designed to simply demonize the thing labeled as evil or totalitarian in some way. It's one of those terms which cause me to immediately stop giving a statement any credence...
Welcome to Snowden! Enter at your own risk...

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:08 pm

Mister Mistoffelees wrote:For certain people, sarobah, "PC" or "political correctness" is nothing but a buzzword plastered over anything the speaker/poster doesn't like.

Thanks... "buzzword" is the term I was reaching for :o)
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby Tieup1 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:43 am

I think it should be left to the individual schools to select their own uniform policy.

I wore a uniform when I was at school, I didn't have a problem with that at all.

You go to school to get an education, what you wearing, should not be an issue.

If there is no uniform policy at your school, as long as you are decently dressed, there should be no problem.

How do you define decently dressed, common sense should be used, wear something casual, and practical for a day in school.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby truly_trussed » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:57 am

sarobah wrote:There are several overlapping issues:
Should there be any dress code at all? Why or why not?
If so, how strict should it be? What level of enforcement is appropriate?
If strict, when does it become a uniform? What are the pros and cons?
If a uniform, how prescriptive should it be? What level of enforcement is appropriate?
Should there be different rules according to age and gender? Why or why not?
What concessions should be made to fashion, social standards, cultural mores, etc.?
Should the rules extend to non-dress issues (hair, make-up, jewellery, etc.)?


Sarobah, as an educator you are on the front lines. Here's something to ponder. Do you know of any school districts where the teachers and staff are required to wear an adult version of the uniforms that youth wear? Hey, works for the Scouts and Guides! (Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts U.S.; Scouts (co-ed) and Girl Guides most other countries).

I think the Scouts were the first Metrosexuals. They wear scarves (neckerchiefs) and until the 80s in the U.S. wore garters and tabs to hold up the high socks. (Still do in U.K. and Canadian Scouting). Berets are still in use for headwear in some places.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:52 pm

truly_trussed wrote: Sarobah, as an educator you are on the front lines. Here's something to ponder. Do you know of any school districts where the teachers and staff are required to wear an adult version of the uniforms that youth wear?

The people I educate (or attempt to) don’t wear uniforms, but I get your point :o)
I don’t know of any such schools, but here’s the thing…
When I was on the front lines (in my schoolgirl days), I was not in favour of teachers’ uniforms, unless they chose to wear them. (Some would have done so, mainly for cost-cutting purposes.) There are several issues. First it would make a school look more like a military academy… or a Scout camp. [See below.] Second, uniforms in the school context promote egalitarianism, and I think there should be a barrier between teachers and students that would start to break down if all wore uniforms. Third, uniforms and dress codes are about setting standards and establishing discipline, whereas teachers (and other school staff) have their own protocols for standards and discipline. Etcetera.

I think the Scouts were the first Metrosexuals...

Nice point :o)
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby truly_trussed » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:56 pm

BTW Sarobah, were you ever in Scouts Australia (they've been co-ed at all levels since you've been around) or Girl Guides? I know you're rather outdoorsy. I know you would have excelled at knot-tying. I'm sure adult leadership would would not have condoned TUGs but I could picture you discreetly hogtied and gagged in your tent at camp with your friends keeping guard.

I did some research about school uniforms in the U.S. In 2010 about 26% of U.S. public schools had a uniform dress code policy.

In the 90s I was in London I saw some lads from private schools walking to or from school or riding the Underground (subway). They had the navy blue blazer with the school crest on it with matching shorts and knee socks. They also had on the proper tie. That was the British Public School uniform sterotype in saw on U.S. TV growing up. On Later trips I noticed they switched to a more contemporay look. Not that casual, but not as rigid. At the same time I only saw one fellow wearing the traditional English Derby. That was at Buckingham Palace at the Changing of the Guard. Haven't seen one since. T.T.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:31 pm

truly_trussed wrote:BTW Sarobah, were you ever in Scouts Australia (they've been co-ed at all levels since you've been around) or Girl Guides? I know you're rather outdoorsy. I know you would have excelled at knot-tying. I'm sure adult leadership would not have condoned TUGs but I could picture you discreetly hogtied and gagged in your tent at camp with your friends keeping guard.

You know the line from Grouch Marx about “any club that will have me as a member.” Well, that’s me. I am pretty sure I would have been thrown out for gross insubordination even before I got thrown out for gross misapplication of the tent ropes.
Although when this comes to mind, I do have regrets for miss opportunities.
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(Apologies to those who disapprove of hotlinks.)

truly_trussed wrote:I did some research about school uniforms in the U.S. In 2010 about 26% of U.S. public schools had a uniform dress code policy.

Those of us brought up in a school-uniform society would find that hard to comprehend, except that we see it on American TV. In my (large) city, I know of only one high school without a uniform, and in their prospectus they acknowledge that they are unique.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby Kyle » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:12 pm

Here in the US from what I've seen the public schools which have uniforms tend to be in low-income areas. Which is bizarre, because they are the kids whose parents are least able to afford the uniforms.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby truly_trussed » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:51 am

Kyle wrote:Here in the US from what I've seen the public schools which have uniforms tend to be in low-income areas. Which is bizarre, because they are the kids whose parents are least able to afford the uniforms.


But the outfits are probably cheaper at Flynn and O'Hara (a U.S. retail chain specializing in school uniforms) then at Aeropostale and other trendy stores at the malls.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby truly_trussed » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:10 pm

sarobah wrote:
truly_trussed wrote:BTW Sarobah, were you ever in Scouts Australia (they've been co-ed at all levels since you've been around) or Girl Guides? I know you're rather outdoorsy. I know you would have excelled at knot-tying. I'm sure adult leadership would not have condoned TUGs but I could picture you discreetly hogtied and gagged in your tent at camp with your friends keeping guard.
Well, that’s me. I am pretty sure I would have been thrown out for gross insubordination even before I got thrown out for gross misapplication of the tent ropes.


Or gross misapplication of the troop neckerchiefs for using as gags. :gag:

Re: School Dress Code

Postby xtc » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:27 pm

As a former teacher I worked in a school where someone in senior management didn't have enough to do one day so they introduced a dress code for teachers. Bloody wonderful! I had always worn shirt and tie (Jackets just accumulate rubbish!) and left the earrings out. Some prat decided we all ought to wear polo shirts in departmental colours. However, objecting to looking like a small, blue barrage balloon, I simply lost the tie (equal opportunities) and replaced the ear rings (Alright, YOU tell me to remove them!). No one complained. Some people should have more sense (shouldn't I/they?) Mind you, being too old to give a damn as well as being the Union Rep. helped.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:07 pm

This topic has a special resonance for me because I was the uniforms and dress code rep on my School Council. (Good times!)
The issue of a teacher’s uniform came up at the time, although the proposal was that it be optional (which misses the point of having a uniform, doesn’t it?). It foundered for two reasons. One was indecision over whether it should be an informal polo shirt style, or a more formal, “corporate” style. Secondly, there was controversy because the student’s uniform rules did not allow us girls to wear trousers. So either women teachers would be forced to wear skirts or there would be a blatant double standard. The best thing to do was abandon the whole idea.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby xtc » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:32 pm

Both boys and girls could wear trousers but I never saw a boy wearing the same "spray-ons" that the girls wore!
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: School Dress Code

Postby truly_trussed » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:47 pm

I remember about 25 years ago some High School Districts in the states had a dress code that banned shorts for any student male or female. Well, the last 2 weeks of school in early June it would get rather hot (over 95f,35c). The girls could wear skirts to keep their legs cool. Some boys seeking the same comfort would borrow their sisters skirts. Made the news when the boys got sent home. Today many public high schools in the states allow shorts.

Mentioned in an earlier post about the kilts on Catholic High School Girls Uniforms in Toronto. They did turn heads of visitors like me. Think Britney Spears and her dancers in the video ...Baby One More Time. The was in 2002 when the Catholic Church child abuse scandal was big news. I got a good chuckle from my Canadian friends when I pointed out that it looks like the School Uniform Committee of the Archdiocese of Toronto was run by a bunch of dirty old STRAIGHT men! Disclaimer- I know the vast majority of gays are not child abusers just like straight or bi people. It was just a good joke at the time. T.T.
Last edited by truly_trussed on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:10 pm

We girls had to wear our skirts all year round, in cold, wet and windy weather, which was unfair because the boys got to cover their legs. (The guys were also able to wear shorts in summer.) But although it was in the dress code, hemline restrictions were never enforced, and we wore them very short. Our philosophy was, “If I have to wear a skirt, no one is going to tell me how to wear it!” Even in winter which (I confess) was dumb.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby Kyle » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:46 pm

truly_trussed wrote:
Kyle wrote:Here in the US from what I've seen the public schools which have uniforms tend to be in low-income areas. Which is bizarre, because they are the kids whose parents are least able to afford the uniforms.


But the outfits are probably cheaper at Flynn and O'Hara (a U.S. retail chain specializing in school uniforms) then at Aeropostale and other trendy stores at the malls.


I wouldn't have any idea, as I've never heard of it.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby truly_trussed » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:28 pm

Oops, sorry Kyle, I should have done some research before yapping my trap. Flynn and O'Hara is the largest retailer of school uniforms in the U.S. They have 27 retail stores from New York State to North Carolina. I know that's not your neck of the woods. They do serve the rest of the U.S. by telephone and internet sales from their HQ in Philadelphia. If you're curious about their wares click here: www.flynnohara.com. Perhaps you might be a school administrator looking for uniforms for your students.

I'm sure you've heard of the other mall stores where kids get the back to school outfits. Besides Aeropostale there's Abercrombie and Fitch, Hollister and American Eagle Outfitters. Take care, T.T.

Re: School Dress Code

Postby vantran » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:00 am

In countries like Singapore, school uniform codes are mandatory. Some schools in that country ban the wearing of coloured bras

Re: School Dress Code

Postby sarobah » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:31 pm

vantran wrote:In countries like Singapore, school uniform codes are mandatory. Some schools in that country ban the wearing of coloured bras

Now I do not want anyone to think that I remain bitter, but... My school dress code regulated what undies girls should wear (colour of bra, colour and type of knickers) with no such rules for boys. Such injustice!
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.