Gender Identities

Postby SolidSnickerdoodle » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:07 pm

I've been hearing some students talk about this recently, and seeing how nobody's brought it up yet I thought I'd give it a try.

Simply put I have a difficult time understanding all the different gender identities. Don't get me wrong, I would never shame anybody for their gender identification or lack of conformity to gender roles. I'm not one of those "men should act like men and women should act like women" people.

That being said, I just don't quite understand how there can be so many different gender identifications. From my time is psychology, I've come to understand that sex is a biological construct and gender is a social construct, reinforced by gender roles, society's expectations, and personal feelings. Naturally, this would open the door to many more possibilities for gender than sex.

Despite that knowledge, the crux of the argument still eludes me. In my mind (and this is just me, so please don't attack me with negativity) there exist three genders: Male, female, and transgender. This isn't to impose any restrictions on anyone. I would just think that even though gender is a very personal matter, that a person would fall under at least one of these categories.

I imagine that a person builds their own sense of gender identity by looking at how others of that same gender act, and the baggage that comes with that gender. They then come to the conclusion that they are or are not comfortable with being the gender they are. In other words, they find with one they identify more with.

In my mind, this seems to cover all the bases. A person can identify as a male, female, or be dissatisfied with their gender and change it. I may very well be wrong in that assertion. It may not be that simple. I would not know, considering that I've always been comfortable with the gender that I am.

It's strange really. I have what I consider to be a decent grasp on the sexuality spectrum. A person can be the most absolutely heterosexual individual you've ever seen, be bisexual, or heterosexual. Of course there are other inclusions such as asexual. But it seems fairly straightforward. Why then is it not the same for gender identity? Why are there these 50+ "Tumblr genders" as they've come to be called?

Again, this is not an effort by me to attack anybody that fits into these categories. I'd just like somebody here to help me understand.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

Re: Gender Identities

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:01 pm

Good luck with that. You're not alone; i don't really understand it either.
I myself have always been perfectly comfortable with my gender, so it's hard for me to imagine being otherwise. At the same time I am also basically asexual, and this in turn may help me be more accepting of other peoples' sexual identities because to me they're pretty much all the same to me. So I have no reason to think differently of anyone for their gender identity than I do their race or religion or their hair color. People are people, and the fact that no two are alike helps make them more interesting... if only from a distance sometimes.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gender Identities

Postby drawscore » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:19 pm

The human mind is many things, and trying to understand them all, is an impossible task.

Drawscore

Re: Gender Identities

Postby wataru14 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:25 am

SolidSnickerdoodle wrote:Why are there these 50+ "Tumblr genders" as they've come to be called?


Don't listen to anything Tumblr says. It's a place for obnoxious people to whine about stuff for attention. It's the spawning ground for regressives. Go there to look at pictures, but don't go there for social commentary.

Re: Gender Identities

Postby Jason Toddman » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:11 am

drawscore wrote:The human mind is many things, and trying to understand them all, is an impossible task.

Drawscore

There is an old saying that God created human beings so that God would have a puzzle that even He could not solve.
If there is a God, this explanation would make a lot of sense.
Well, I think it's an old saying. I actually heard it only on an episode of Babylon 5... but that was back in the 1990s so good enough.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gender Identities

Postby drawscore » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:32 pm

Jason Toddman wrote:There is an old saying that God created human beings so that God would have a puzzle that even He could not solve.
If there is a God, this explanation would make a lot of sense.
Well, I think it's an old saying. I actually heard it only on an episode of Babylon 5... but that was back in the 1990s so good enough.


Sounds profound to me.

Drawscore

Re: Gender Identities

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:35 am

I think the most controversial part about trans-people for most other people - especially older people like myself - is the idea of someone with the opposing gender identity using a public restroom meant for the gender they identify with rather than the one they were born as. I myself am generally pretty progressive but i have to admit that even I find it to be something of a sticking point for me that someone who was born a woman can use the men's room while i am in it. I would probably be even more uncomfortable with it were I a parent of a child faced with this situation. But likely this is just from the fact that I was raised in a culture that frowned upon one gender using the other gender's restroom.
The only solution i can see is either that public places like restaurants create a third bathroom for transgender folk (which seems unreasonable to me considering their relative scarcity) or make public restrooms unisex/co-ed, which might create an even bigger outcry.
To be honest i can't see why Transgender people can't just suck it up and use the restroom meant for the gender they were born with rather than force all the rest of us to accommodate ourselves to their conflicted sexual identities. They might face a lot less hassle from everyone else if they accommodated us in this one regard than make society accommodate them.
But then i am just an aging fart who grew up in a much different time, never had a gender identity problem (despite having a gf who ultimately turned out to be lesbian and who thought it was funny to occasionally make me cross-dress), and who would never dream of using a woman's restroom in any case unless I knew for certain that it was unoccupied, that it was a single occupant room I could lock, and my bladder was about to burst!).
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Gender Identities

Postby elanshof » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:44 pm

How dare people use the bathroom where they will feel most comfortable. Such a burden on the rest of us. I'd wager that you have used the same bathroom as a transperson at some point in your life and you had absolutely no idea. People know better than you and I what bathrooms they belong in.

Image This person's birth certificate reads female. Definitely belongs in a women's room, right?

Re: Gender Identities

Postby Kyle » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:48 pm

If we're going to start letting someone into any bathroom because they "feel" like they should use it or feel more comfortable there, we may as well just eliminate men's and women's bathrooms altogether. What if I go and say I should use the women's bathroom because I feel more comfortable there? How will someone be able to tell me otherwise? They don't know how I feel. They can't make that judgment. How could they stop me? Making judgments by how I look? How I act? Sound? Making judgments on those things is in fact reinforcing gender roles and/or stereotypes, not eliminating them.

Re: Gender Identities

Postby wataru14 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:51 pm

I will never understand why some people have such a fixation on which bathroom trans people are using. Or anyone for that matter. What exactly about a transwoman using a ladies' room gets people all riled up? (I'm not going to even entertain the notion that transmen are the issue)

Re: Gender Identities

Postby SolidSnickerdoodle » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:15 pm

Jason Toddman wrote:I think the most controversial part about trans-people for most other people - especially older people like myself - is the idea of someone with the opposing gender identity using a public restroom meant for the gender they identify with rather than the one they were born as. I myself am generally pretty progressive but i have to admit that even I find it to be something of a sticking point for me that someone who was born a woman can use the men's room while i am in it.

I'd say you're correct in that assumption. It's obviously a big deal in the eyes of the media and some people are genuinely worried about the repercussions that these accommodations can have. And I do get it. I can totally see how a parent might have concerns for their child's safety or how one might feel uncomfortable by the situation.

What you have to realize though is that the picture that is being created by the mainstream media (Ugh, I hate using that term) and these high-chair politicians is not an accurate representation. I've heard various politicians, some of which are political candidates, who have written off transgender's right to go into their own bathroom as "inappropriate sexual advances".

Again, I do get the concern here, but what you'd ultimately be doing is denying hundreds of thousands of people the right to frequent the restroom that they identify with due to the possible abuse of the system by a few terrible people.

Jason Toddman wrote:To be honest i can't see why Transgender people can't just suck it up and use the restroom meant for the gender they were born with rather than force all the rest of us to accommodate ourselves to their conflicted sexual identities. They might face a lot less hassle from everyone else if they accommodated us in this one regard than make society accommodate them.

In regards to "why can't they just suck it up?", consider this: Not every transgender person is easy to identify. Contrary to popular belief, not every transgender person is some overweight man who puts on stockings or a woman who is super ripped. There are those who naturally have more gender neutral faces to being with. They are the lucky ones, as this characteristic makes their transition much easier.

With that in mind, it is entirely possible for a person to be a transgender without you even knowing it. And many transgender people in that position go to great lengths to "pass" (as it is called) for the gender that they feel they are. As far as everyone else is concerned, James from 6th period or Bill from accounting is a man. He looks like a man, talks like a man, dresses like a man, and acts like a man. So why then is he going in the women's bathroom? It's because he wasn't born with a dick, so that right is revoked. The cusp of the point I'm trying to make here is that a person can pass entirely for the gender that they see themselves as, but be outed by school or business-mandated bathroom policy. And that's putting all other offenses aside.

A year ago I might have not known anything about this or even really cared, but withing the last few months I stumbled upon a F-M transgender's YouTube account. And I shit you not, for the first 10 or so of his video I watched, I did not even know he was born female. I was just thinking to myself, "Oh, wow. These are some pretty nice videos. I'll watch some more. Wait, what?!"

I always pictured them as dressing up in drag and frequenting obscure clubs in downtown cities, like you see in those Adam Sandler movies. But this, this was different. And like I said, he is one of the lucky ones to be able to pull off the look without even needed testosterone treatment or anything.

While I myself am not transgender, I have enjoyed watching his videos. It has exposed to an entirely new concept of civil rights that I knew nothing about, and has since broadened my views. On his channel he talks about his experiences with high school, bullying, and his intrinsic knowledge that his biology does not match up with his perception. He faced much harassment in high school, but by the time he went off to college, he had changed his wardrobe, cut his hair, changed to his male name, and from the first day on nobody even knew. Thankfully, he lives in a region of the UK where the rules are more relaxed about this sort of thing, allowing him to continue living out his aspiration for masculinity.

For anyone who is interested, or wants to look at things from a new perspective, here is his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealJazzBertie
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

Re: Gender Identities

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:53 pm

elanshof wrote:How dare people use the bathroom where they will feel most comfortable. Such a burden on the rest of us. I'd wager that you have used the same bathroom as a transperson at some point in your life and you had absolutely no idea. People know better than you and I what bathrooms they belong in.


You misunderstand me... I myself have no particular objection to transgenders using the same bathrooms i do. But to expect all the rest of us to adapt to something considered totally bizarre just a generation ago so quickly might be asking a bit much... especially for those of a religious persuasion (which i myself no longer am).
To be quite honest i personally really couldn't care less... it's not like i inspect every person who enters a public bathroom when i am inside it... but i know that it bothers a lot of other people.With some people perhaps more the idea of children than with themselves. I have no children of my own however so that of course isn't a personal problem with me. But some people are rather sensitive on the issue; don't their feelings count?
Then again, people used to say the same things about sharing facilities with people of color. :?
I myself am trying to be open-minded about the matter. It's just not as easy as you might think considering my age and the fact that i live in an area where transgenders are still very rare because there aren't a whole lot of people here to begin with. Were I a millennial growing up in a large city most likely i wouldn't think twice about it. But for a baby boomer country boy, I think I'm being way more open about it than most other folks of my age and upbringing would be.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...