Favorite president

Postby Chris12 » Fri May 01, 2015 11:59 am

With two presidential topics already and more sure to come I can safely say Jump in the fire is in a president mood. Things can get a bit heated(Drawscore vs Jason! :big: ) in politics so why not do something a little more fun. Who would you say is your favorite out of almost all the 44 Presidents and more importantly, why is your favorite president, your favorite president.

I'm going to include a rule to exclude all presidents after Ronald Reagan to keep things in less inflammable waters.

So who's your favorite president and why. You can either list your number one or a top three or however you want to go about it.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Reidy » Sat May 02, 2015 4:43 am

I'm torn between David Palmer and Jed Bartlett.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 02, 2015 9:13 am

Reidy wrote:I'm torn between David Palmer and Jed Bartlett.

???? And who do you think they were presidents of? Not of the United States, surely.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 02, 2015 9:21 am

Chris12 wrote:With two presidential topics already and more sure to come I can safely say Jump in the fire is in a president mood. Things can get a bit heated(Drawscore vs Jason! :big: )

Yes, i reckon so. But even though I am strongly leftward in leaning, my favorite president was a Republican; Teddy Roosevelt. There are some things he did i disagree with, such as his strong imperialistic bent, but he was a strong leader and someone who believed in 'giving everyone a fair shake'; unlike the meritocracy modern Republicans seems to believe in that I consider little better than feudalism. By today's standards he likely would been considered much too liberal to be a Republican now.
Had he won re-election when he belatedly ran for a third time (or, for that matter, kept running and winning rather than give it up to Taft), it's highly possible he could actually have helped prevent WWI - something the less-strong leader Woodrow Wilson attempted but failed... which in turn could have helped prevent WWII. Maybe. something is certain, but I'll bet history would have proceeded along a more favorable course had he won in 1912. He might've lived longer too because his death was related to those journeys he underwent after he lost that election (catching illness for one thing).
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Chris12 » Sat May 02, 2015 10:05 am

My favorite president would be the other Rooseveld who's probably the father of America as a world power. FDR put an end to an incredible self destructive isolationism, ended the great depression in America and skilfully guided America and the world through the second world war. All while having Polio.

Second would be Lincoln. You'd be hard pressed to find a president facing the challenge he did. Keeping the USA united and ending slavery also makes his legacy an overwhelmingly positive one.

Third would be Grant since I said favorite rather then best president. Grant wasn't much of a president but he was a good man, the most morale man in the office of president perhaps? Slander aside he's also one of the better generals America has produced who contributed heavily to Lincoln's already mentioned positive legacy.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Kyle » Sat May 02, 2015 10:33 am

Jason Toddman wrote:
Reidy wrote:I'm torn between David Palmer and Jed Bartlett.

???? And who do you think they were presidents of? Not of the United States, surely.


Palmer was president on the second and third seasons of 24. Bartlett I think was another TV show president but I can't quite place the show.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Reidy » Sat May 02, 2015 10:48 am

Kyle wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:
Reidy wrote:I'm torn between David Palmer and Jed Bartlett.

???? And who do you think they were presidents of? Not of the United States, surely.


Palmer was president on the second and third seasons of 24. Bartlett I think was another TV show president but I can't quite place the show.


The West Wing. So idealistic every other politician in life seems to pale in comparison.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 02, 2015 1:42 pm

Reidy wrote:
Kyle wrote:
Jason Toddman wrote:
Reidy wrote:I'm torn between David Palmer and Jed Bartlett.

???? And who do you think they were presidents of? Not of the United States, surely.


Palmer was president on the second and third seasons of 24. Bartlett I think was another TV show president but I can't quite place the show.


The West Wing. So idealistic every other politician in life seems to pale in comparison.

I'm not 100% certain, but I'm fairly sure Chris12 was referring only to real presidents; not those depicted on TV or on books and movies.
Of course, if we consider fictional (and only fictional) ones, then for me it's a toss-up between Harrison Ford in Air Force One and Bill Pullman in independence Day.
Also, I think Chris12 is generously over-estimating the intelligence of average Americans if he thinks most of us can even remember any before Reagan except for FDR, those who came since him, and the quartet immortalized for easy reference on Mount Rushmore; likely the only presidents most of us even remember or know anything about at all.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 02, 2015 1:50 pm

Chris12 wrote:My favorite president would be the other Rooseveld who's probably the father of America as a world power.

He would be my choice for number two, anyway.... a very close second in fact. It's a shame he didn't live quite long enough to see the final end of the second world war... or at the very least the end of the war in Europe. He missed seeing that by just three lousy weeks.
Lincoln, Washington, and Kennedy would round out the top five in my list.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby truly_trussed » Sat May 02, 2015 4:58 pm

Jase, three of your favorites (Washington, Lincoln and T. Roosevelt) are on Mt. Rushmore.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 02, 2015 8:43 pm

truly_trussed wrote:Jase, three of your favorites (Washington, Lincoln and T. Roosevelt) are on Mt. Rushmore.

Yaas? And your point is?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby truly_trussed » Sun May 03, 2015 6:38 am

That you have good political taste.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun May 03, 2015 6:55 am

Oh. Okay then. Wasn't sure if you were trying to make a wisecrack or what.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Chris12 » Mon May 04, 2015 2:14 pm

Also, I think Chris12 is generously over-estimating the intelligence of average Americans


Someone in this world has to :big:


if he thinks most of us can even remember any before Reagan except for FDR, those who came since him, and the quartet immortalized for easy reference on Mount Rushmore; likely the only presidents most of us even remember or know anything about at all.


From what I've heard American schools skip all history of greeks and Romans all the way up to Napoleon so if you're only getting American history some presidents should probably stick.

I'l be honest and admit that neither David Palmer nor Jed Bartlett sounded like fictional characters to me :big:

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon May 04, 2015 4:40 pm

Chris12 wrote:
Also, I think Chris12 is generously over-estimating the intelligence of average Americans


Someone in this world has to :big:


if he thinks most of us can even remember any before Reagan except for FDR, those who came since him, and the quartet immortalized for easy reference on Mount Rushmore; likely the only presidents most of us even remember or know anything about at all.


From what I've heard American schools skip all history of greeks and Romans all the way up to Napoleon so if you're only getting American history some presidents should probably stick.

I'l be honest and admit that neither David Palmer nor Jed Bartlett sounded like fictional characters to me :big:

Well, you're Dutch, so I'll overlook the fact you don't remember the names of all the presidents of the USA or can tell fictional presidents from actual ones if you'll overlook the fact that i couldn't for the life me remember the names of the majority of your Dutch kings and queens or in what order they reigned or even when they reigned (and I doubt most Americans could do any better either). Most likely you recall more presidents of the USA than I can remember Dutch monarchs... and history is one of my better subjects! :mrgreen:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby drawscore » Tue May 05, 2015 12:56 pm

The best president has to be William Henry Harrison (1841). The reason he's the best, is because he died a month after taking office, and wasn't around long enough to screw anything up.

Drawscore

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Wed May 13, 2015 9:41 pm

drawscore wrote:The best president has to be William Henry Harrison (1841). The reason he's the best, is because he died a month after taking office, and wasn't around long enough to screw anything up.

Drawscore

You really have an intense aversion for the federal government, don't you?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby drawscore » Thu May 14, 2015 5:40 pm

>>>You really have an intense aversion for the federal government, don't you?<<<

Actually, no. I just want it to stay the hell out of my life. Leave me the hell alone. Don't bitch at me because I drive an SUV. Don't tell me I must do or buy something I want no part of.

Drawscore

"When the government fears the people, there is freedom. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu May 14, 2015 7:12 pm

>>>You really have an intense aversion for the federal government, don't you?<<<

Actually, no. I just want it to stay the hell out of my life. Leave me the hell alone. Don't bitch at me because I drive an SUV. Don't tell me I must do or buy something I want no part of.

Drawscore

"When the government fears the people, there is freedom. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

I am unaware of any federal government law or program that tells you that you cannot drive a SUV. With the doing or buying something you want no pat of, I can only assume you mean health insurance. However, if you have VA benefits, aren't you excused from having to sign up for the ACA anyway?
As for it staying out of your life, sounds to me what you are really advocating is the freedom to be irresponsible. That's about the main reason everyone else who descries federal (or any) government does so, once their reasons are given and boiled down to their essence.
You sound like you would prefer to live in an anarchy (none of which are safe nor peaceful) or in a libertarian country (of which none exists); neither of which is politically stable.
As for people fearing the government, the only people who do so are probably either criminals or rascals who wish to bypass laws set up to those weaker than themselves.
Anyway, that sounds like a fascinating discussion... for a different thread.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Koncrete » Thu May 14, 2015 7:55 pm

Probably Andrew Jackson just because i've never had so much fun reading about all the crazy stuff a president has done
Just a nerd looking for a good time ;D

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri May 15, 2015 8:14 am

iiBernie wrote:Probably Andrew Jackson just because i've never had so much fun reading about all the crazy stuff a president has done

That sounds like one of the main reasons my favorite is Teddy Roosevelt... he had a very colorful life himself.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Chris12 » Fri May 15, 2015 10:03 am

Beating an assassin to near death with his cane was pretty cool. Trail of tears a bit less so.

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri May 15, 2015 3:09 pm

Chris12 wrote:Beating an assassin to near death with his cane was pretty cool. Trail of tears a bit less so.

You should clarify for most of my fellow American readers that you are referring to Andrew Jackson; not Teddy Roosevelt.
The strangest thing I ever heard about Jackson are modern day conspiracy theories involving him colluding with the banks messing up America's economic system. Jackson in fact detested banks and didn't trust them an inch. His presidency was the last one in fact where the national debt was zero; in large part because he distrusted the banks. Events since then seem to show he was prophetic in that regard. Conspiracy theorists on the other hand show an abysmal understanding of history.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Kyle » Fri May 15, 2015 8:47 pm

I would really like Andrew Jackson if it hadn't been for the whole Trail of Tears thing. That is among the greatest human rights atrocities the United States ever committed, so it's really hard to talk about him without discussing that.

Theodore Roosevelt got shot and delivered a 90-minute speech before getting medical attention. The bullet did hit something in his pocket (a glasses case I think, but I'm too lazy to look it up right now) which slowed it down, so it wasn't like it went deep into vital organs, but it still did break the skin.

Re: Favorite president

Postby drawscore » Fri May 15, 2015 11:39 pm

>>>As for it staying out of your life, sounds to me what you are really advocating is the freedom to be irresponsible. That's about the main reason everyone else who descries federal (or any) government does so, once their reasons are given and boiled down to their essence.<<<

Certainly. If someone wants to be a dumb ass, and make dumb life choices, why should the government act as "the one great nanny of us all?" You make a dumb decision, that's your problem, not the government's. If I call a full house with a pair of deuces, why should I expect the government to cover my loss?

>>>As for people fearing the government, the only people who do so are probably either criminals or rascals who wish to bypass laws set up to those weaker than themselves.<<<

"The government" is a generic term. "Fearing agencies of the government," might be more accurate. You can't tell me that illegal aliens don't fear INS and ICE, and all of us are afraid of - or at least leary of - the IRS. If you got a notice to appear at their offices for a random audit, wouldn't you feel just a slight twinge of fear? Or even panic?

Mark Twain had it right: "No one's person or property is safe whenever congress is in session," and that quote is more than 100 years old.

Drawscore

Re: Favorite president

Postby misterg792000 » Sat May 16, 2015 6:25 am

drawscore wrote:>>>You really have an intense aversion for the federal government, don't you?<<<

Actually, no. I just want it to stay the hell out of my life. Leave me the hell alone. Don't bitch at me because I drive an SUV. Don't tell me I must do or buy something I want no part of.


Yes, I'm certain the government has bitched at you for driving an SUV many times. The latter is childish nonsense. "Waaah, I'm not allowed to murder anyone, or force anyone working for me to work unpaid overtime, or not buy insurance that ensures my ability to pay should I be responsible for destroying someone else's car, waaah"

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 16, 2015 8:40 am

drawscore wrote: Certainly. If someone wants to be a dumb ass, and make dumb life choices, why should the government act as "the one great nanny of us all?" You make a dumb decision, that's your problem, not the government's. If I call a full house with a pair of deuces, why should I expect the government to cover my loss? Drawscore

Not sure what you refer to as a dumb mistake.
You mean being homeless and jobless? Sure, there are some Andy Capp slacker types out there gaming the system. But there are a whole lot of others who are victims of downsizing, accidents, illnesses, or what-not who have been unable to recover and gotten trampled under the system. In your way of thinking, they're all freeloaders and refuse to help them... apparently unaware that the cost to society of ignoring them is far higher than giving them basic assistance and helping them obtain jobs.
You mean people who take drugs and so on? Again, most who do drugs do so because their lives are so bleak reality is unendurable to them; born and raised in poverty with no chance to get out of the squalor is the reality for many millions of people. If society gave a fair shake to everyone in society, and people were educated about things like drugs and sex and so on, the drug problem would likely be drastically reduced as a resultLikely so would be unwanted births. But again you feel it's better to hoard than to help the common good (which also includes yourself).

drawscore wrote:"The government" is a generic term. "Fearing agencies of the government," might be more accurate. You can't tell me that illegal aliens don't fear INS and ICE, and all of us are afraid of - or at least leary of - the IRS. If you got a notice to appear at their offices for a random audit, wouldn't you feel just a slight twinge of fear? Or even panic?
Mark Twain had it right: "No one's person or property is safe whenever congress is in session," and that quote is more than 100 years old.

Drawscore


No, I wouldn't fear the IRS for a random audit because (1) They don't bother with blokes like me who can use short-forms and (2) I'd have absolutely nothing to hide if they did so waste their time. I've nothing to audit.
As for illegal immigrants fearing the government, since when do you care about them? Crocodile tears don't boost your argument. On that subject, do you know who the first illegal immigrants in the Southwest were? American setters, who invaded Texas and points west and stole the land, which legally belonged to Mexico at the time and caused a war with Mexico when the Mexicans rightly protested.
People who bitch about illegal immigrants obviously don't know diddily about American history in general and the War with Mexico in particular. You should read about it sometime; it's a fascinating subject on a par with our treatment of Native Americans. ut oh wait; you conservatives don't give a damn about how we stole their land and slaughtered them and relocated them either, do you? There's Andrew Jackson all over again (among other presidents; Ulysses S. Grant was almost as bad in this regard).
As for Twain, he was a bitter old man when he said it, and a quote being well over a century old doesn't make it right. Sure, it makes some sense, but without a strong Federal government how do you expect to deal with terrorists? How do you think we'd have defeated Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo? Who would back-up your rich friends when they cause an economic crisis? Think, man; think!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Chris12 » Sat May 16, 2015 9:45 am

Uh wasn't Grant one of the few presidents that seemed to care about non whites?

Re: Favorite president

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 16, 2015 10:35 am

Chris12 wrote:Uh wasn't Grant one of the few presidents that seemed to care about non whites?

True, and he did honestly try making peace with the Indians in the west. But it's also when the various Indian Wars (and the Battle of the little big horn) took place and many of the worst atrocities against the western indian nations took place. Grant was very progressive in his view of native Americans and in fact it was his idea to essentially make indian tribes wards of the U.S. Government rather than remain a sovereign people. But many regard this as a grave error, as it virtually ignored their right to retain their own culture and way of life and them little better than welfare cases. Their reservations are generally as impoverished an environment as an inner-city slum where once they had the entire continent to themselves.
But Grant tried; which is more than can be said for most other presidents before or after him.
Oh, I see what you're talking about now. Oi!!! I must've had a brain fart. I was going to point out another president (Grover Cleveland, who opened the renamed Indian Territory / Oklahoma to white settlement), then thought about an exception to the rule (Grant), remembered the Indian Wars despite his liberal policies, and got my wires crossed.
My bad.
Yes, Grant was an exception in his attitudes toward non-whites but unfortunately some of the worst relations with Native Americans happened during his watch. How much of this was his fault and how much due to subordinates is still open to debate. however, as i said, he did make some mistake too; that's where i got messed up. :oops:
Fortunately his practices toward blacks were more successful; despite the fact that he himself owned a slave before the Civil War.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Favorite president

Postby Chris12 » Sat May 16, 2015 2:57 pm

I generally write it off on his subordinates because the man had no idea what he was doing when it came to selecting his aids. Grand's trust was rarely repaid which led to a corrupt white house and personal financial ruin.

As for the slave. I heard he got a slave as part as a relatives will and freed the slave as soon as a legal period had expired.