A Good Story?

Postby chadmc90 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:56 pm

Hey guys!

I believe the main focus of this board is the TUG Stories that writers have provided us over the years(including myself). Some are great, and some...not so much. So here's my question: what elements should a story have to make it "good." I guess what I mean by "good" is what draws your interest to a story? What things do you expect out of authors on this board(readers)?

Anyone can comment. Readers should say what they expect when they open a topic from a new writer, and writers should provide tips that they use in their stories.

The intention of this thread should be to share with new potential writers ideas to help with their writing. I hope I get a great level of feedback for this topic. There was a similar topic that has been buried, so I want to begin anew.

I believe there are many factors that writers should be aware of when writing. Of course, use of spelling and grammar are important. Without it, most get turned off when trying to decipher through your stories. I also believe structure and style is a factor as well. No one wants to read a jumbled up story. Using BBC code to bold, italicize, underline, and font size(mainly for chapter titles) are really important, as well as spaces between paragraphs. Separating character dialogue and actions into separate lines will go a long way, too.

As far as elements of stories go, plan ahead of time before just writing out of the blue. If it's fiction, you should plan out all the characters and have some ending in mind to work towards. You can fill in small details later, but the general plot line should be decided. Working backwards from the ending is also a technique I heard is effective, although I tend to not do that. IN your stories, describing actions and characters is also a good idea, but it doesn't necessarily have to be done as soon as a character is revealed. Using emphasis can help as well to convey emotion, such as exclamation points(!), CAPITAL LETTERS, etc. will help convey emotion.

Remember, don't be afraid to try. Everyone makes mistakes in the beginning, and writing is not necessarily an inherited talent. You will improve the more you write. Don't be afraid to jump in and go.

This topic may be better in General Chat. If so, then feel free to move it, mods.

Well, It's your guys turn! Chime in and add your tips for good stories! :)
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: A Good Story?

Postby tony2 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:29 am

Good advice Chad. well thought out and more than a bit of experience showing through.
Whether fiction or fact, remember always you are painting a picture with words in the mind of the reader. The first 5 words of a speech and the first sentence of a paragraph or section must be suspenseful enough to make them want to read what comes next. Use your opening to lay the groundwork for your plot development, or if a true story, the residual effect you want your readers to ultimately come away with. Like the old Saturday morning Flash Gordon (I know, that dates me --- so ask your grandparents) shows, always leave them guessing what is coming next.
After reading the chicago phone book white pages cover to cover, the critic put it down and said, "Hell of a cast but a lousy plot." I see a number of stories here that go into detail near the beginning to give a dry, police report type profile of the characters: ht, wt, dress.... If it isn't important to the plot or charaacter development, trim it down. Your reader's mind will flesh in the details they want.
For example, E.A. Poe's "Pit and the Pendulum" what did the victim look like? Hot tall? wt? Age? Not important and left out. Contrast with "The Mask of the Red Death" and character description becomes very important.
Hope this little bit helps. Feel free to PM me if any questions.

Aloha,

Tony2
If you believe in yourself enough -
nobody else will figure out you're faking it.


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Re: A Good Story?

Postby drawscore » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:20 pm

First two graphs of a story I wrote a while back:

The sullen teenager sat in the back seat of the station wagon, and, barely audibly, groused "It's not fair!"

His mother turned from the right front, and said "Give it a chance, Doug. You'll have a bigger house, a bigger room, a bigger back yard, . . ."

Based on that alone, who would keep reading, and who would move on to something else? What is it about the opening that grabbed your interest, or turned you off?

Drawscore

Re: A Good Story?

Postby tony2 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:53 am

Thanks for the great illustration of what I was talking about!
If you believe in yourself enough -
nobody else will figure out you're faking it.


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Re: A Good Story?

Postby xtc » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:32 pm

Grab 'em first. Remember that very few people have a true grasp of any number greater than about 20. Research has shown that few people read more than the first 23 words of a notice in, say, a museum. That's the MOST you've got to avoid the reader moving on the something else.
Don't bother about starting from the beginning.
Don't clog up the narrative with stunted character descriptions that are better brought out gradually in the narrative.
Don't write down to your readers!

Apocryphal story:
Lecturer - All successful stories contain religion, royalty, sex, and mystery.
Student's next assignment - "My God," said the Queen, "I'm pregnant. Who done it?"
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: A Good Story?

Postby tony2 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:39 pm

Everybody said "The Duke" they just misspelled it.

Great advice to all.
If you believe in yourself enough -
nobody else will figure out you're faking it.


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Re: A Good Story?

Postby drawscore » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:15 pm

XTC said "Don't write down to your readers." Agreed. But, what is considered "writing down?"

Myself, I try to write to the sophomore-junior level of high school. It's pretty much in the middle, and my thoughts are that if you write above that level, younger readers will have trouble understanding it. If you write below that level, older readers will think you are talking down to them.

You also have to consider your target and peripheral audiences, too. Usually, the target audience is in the 18-35 demographic, but you could have a peripheral audience as young as 12-14, and as old as 55+.

Drawscore

Re: A Good Story?

Postby mistofoleese » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:53 pm

drawscore wrote:XTC said "Don't write down to your readers." Agreed. But, what is considered "writing down?"

Myself, I try to write to the sophomore-junior level of high school. It's pretty much in the middle, and my thoughts are that if you write above that level, younger readers will have trouble understanding it. If you write below that level, older readers will think you are talking down to them.

You also have to consider your target and peripheral audiences, too. Usually, the target audience is in the 18-35 demographic, but you could have a peripheral audience as young as 12-14, and as old as 55+.

Drawscore


DS is on target. you have to make your stories entertaining to dangle a lays in front of the reader and make them want to come back for more so to speak.
with my stories I mostly free write while listening to music what type of music depends on what I may write about But I also know I'm not only writing to a certain group, but a wide range of people.

From the comments I've received I must be doing something right write about what you know and expand on that
Hope that helps

Re: A Good Story?

Postby chadmc90 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:19 pm

Thanks for the feedback, guys! You all have contributed well. It would probably be beneficial if the proposed sticky based that thread I mentioned (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17600&p=114171#p114171). It, for some reason, got buried..
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: A Good Story?

Postby KP Presents » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:59 am

mistofoleese wrote:
drawscore wrote:XTC said "Don't write down to your readers." Agreed. But, what is considered "writing down?"

Myself, I try to write to the sophomore-junior level of high school. It's pretty much in the middle, and my thoughts are that if you write above that level, younger readers will have trouble understanding it. If you write below that level, older readers will think you are talking down to them.

You also have to consider your target and peripheral audiences, too. Usually, the target audience is in the 18-35 demographic, but you could have a peripheral audience as young as 12-14, and as old as 55+.

Drawscore


DS is on target. you have to make your stories entertaining to dangle a lays in front of the reader and make them want to come back for more so to speak.
with my stories I mostly free write while listening to music what type of music depends on what I may write about But I also know I'm not only writing to a certain group, but a wide range of people.

From the comments I've received I must be doing something right write about what you know and expand on that
Hope that helps


Mister Mistofelees Johnson is right! Seriously, I have the plot worked out in my head for most of the stories, but I always allow some room if a surprise rears up, and they do from time to time. I'm a big proponent of, once you have a set of characters established, letting them speak to you and say which way they want to go.

The only other tip i offer is to remember Chekov's rule of Storytelling - if you have a gun in the opening of a story, it needs to be fired by the end. If you have a gun going off at the end, establish it is there at the start.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: A Good Story?

Postby chadmc90 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:29 am

Thought I should bump this. I feel like some of these new writers should give this thread a read. Many of these new stories just isn't as exiting or well developed as they should be.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: A Good Story?

Postby Jay Feely » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:53 am

Write from the heart just make it your own
You will have to subdue me to restrain me. I been a bad boy so make sure you torture me too with anything but pain.

Re: A Good Story?

Postby jsherwood » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:07 am

Jay Feely wrote:Write from the heart just make it your own


Exactly....

Re: A Good Story?

Postby chadmc90 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:16 am

Yea, Jay that is true. Stories that are forced and done for reasons otherwise aren't as good. But I think there is more to writing than just that. This thread has alot of great tips from experienced writers on the board. It is for new writers that are starting out.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: A Good Story?

Postby jsherwood » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:10 pm

Well I would like reviews of my stories so far

Re: A Good Story?

Postby drawscore » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:29 pm

That's something that encourages and/or discourages writers. If you are going to comment, at least some of it should be positive. Negative feedback, or no feedback at all, is discouraging, and the number of feedback responses, compared against the number of people that at least opened and read the story's first graph or two, is one of the reasons I no longer post any of the stories I have written. (I don't do "R" or "X" rated stories, nor anything that even approaches anything sexual.)

Constructive criticism is OK, as long as it is just that - constructive. Hints to writing a better story, like for those who write in English, but for whom English is not a first language, suggesting having the story proofread prior to posting, or line spacing between paragraphs, are fine, but "The story sucked!" is not going to cut it. The author will probably respond by telling the critic to "go piss up a rope." And, unless you are retired, don't piss people off unnecessarily. "The toes you step on today, may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow." If you are retired (or rich), you can piss people off with impunity. The checks will still come every month.

Drawscore

Re: A Good Story?

Postby jsherwood » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:44 am

drawscore wrote:That's something that encourages and/or discourages writers. If you are going to comment, at least some of it should be positive. Negative feedback, or no feedback at all, is discouraging, and the number of feedback responses, compared against the number of people that at least opened and read the story's first graph or two, is one of the reasons I no longer post any of the stories I have written. (I don't do "R" or "X" rated stories, nor anything that even approaches anything sexual.)

Constructive criticism is OK, as long as it is just that - constructive. Hints to writing a better story, like for those who write in English, but for whom English is not a first language, suggesting having the story proofread prior to posting, or line spacing between paragraphs, are fine, but "The story sucked!" is not going to cut it. The author will probably respond by telling the critic to "go piss up a rope." And, unless you are retired, don't piss people off unnecessarily. "The toes you step on today, may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow." If you are retired (or rich), you can piss people off with impunity. The checks will still come every month.

Drawscore


My stories are not explicitly R rated stories even though are in the PG-17section.

Re: A Good Story?

Postby tony2 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:59 am

Many of you folks are aiming a bit high. Your journalism and advertising schools stress writing to an 8th grade education level. Many word programs have an analysis tool that will not only count the number of words but also tell you what grade level you are writing at, It is in MS Word for one -- look for it.

Have fun... Tony2
If you believe in yourself enough -
nobody else will figure out you're faking it.


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Re: A Good Story?

Postby jsherwood » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:16 am

tony2 wrote:Many of you folks are aiming a bit high. Your journalism and advertising schools stress writing to an 8th grade education level. Many word programs have an analysis tool that will not only count the number of words but also tell you what grade level you are writing at, It is in MS Word for one -- look for it.

Have fun... Tony2


right teacher.

Re: A Good Story?

Postby Jay Feely » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:46 pm

If you only get one comment, does that mean your story sucks?
You will have to subdue me to restrain me. I been a bad boy so make sure you torture me too with anything but pain.

Re: A Good Story?

Postby drawscore » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:17 pm

Jay Feely wrote:If you only get one comment, does that mean your story sucks?


Not necessarily. If you get one comment, and just one person read it, you're batting 1.000.

Drawscore

Re: A Good Story?

Postby tony2 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:33 am

DS--
perfect reply!
If you believe in yourself enough -
nobody else will figure out you're faking it.


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Re: A Good Story?

Postby LordNelson » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:29 pm

Just a quick comment on the comment about comments; the number of them is meaningless. Non-members cannot leave comments so if you have 100 views and 99 are non-members one comment is the best you can hope for even if everyone who read your story loved it.

Another thing that is meaningless is the number of views. If a story is posted one paragraph at a time it will generate a huge number of views. Let's say that I write a story and submit it in 16 paragraph sized postings. If I have 100 readers that will amount to 1600 views to see the whole story. If they check in regularly for updates, possibly twice between paragraphs, that's another 3200 views. In the end the story has 4,800 views and only 100 actual readers. Stories that are told in one telling always have fewer views.

As for my opinion of what makes a good story? Any time a person makes the effort to share with others it is good. Poor spelling and bad grammar may rule out winning a Pulitzer Prize for the writer but we as readers are all capable of making corrections on the go and understanding what was written. I have yet to read anything here that is so bad as to be incomprehensible.

Writing is a process that has to flow naturally and if some of the writers tried to dot all the i's and cross all the t's as they went along it would slow them down to the point of defeating that flow.

Re: A Good Story?

Postby chadmc90 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:59 pm

Just a quick comment on the comment about comments; the number of them is meaningless. Non-members cannot leave comments so if you have 100 views and 99 are non-members one comment is the best you can hope for even if everyone who read your story loved it.


I have to disagree. There are plenty on here that have the ability to comment. Even non members can change that by registering and participating. Feedback is what authors use to see if a story is worth the effort in posting. While the number of them may not be as important, having a relative amount of feedback is really beneficial. I mean come on, if your stories didn't get a single comment after some time, would you want to continue?


Another thing that is meaningless is the number of views. If a story is posted one paragraph at a time it will generate a huge number of views. Let's say that I write a story and submit it in 16 paragraph sized postings. If I have 100 readers that will amount to 1600 views to see the whole story. If they check in regularly for updates, possibly twice between paragraphs, that's another 3200 views. In the end the story has 4,800 views and only 100 actual readers. Stories that are told in one telling always have fewer views.


I do agree with that. I have never used the view number as a means of feedback. Views only tell how many times the topic was opened. For all you know, all those views could of been by the same person.


As for my opinion of what makes a good story? Any time a person makes the effort to share with others it is good. Poor spelling and bad grammar may rule out winning a Pulitzer Prize for the writer but we as readers are all capable of making corrections on the go and understanding what was written. I have yet to read anything here that is so bad as to be incomprehensible.

Writing is a process that has to flow naturally and if some of the writers tried to dot all the i's and cross all the t's as they went along it would slow them down to the point of defeating that flow.


I started this thread in hopes of gathering tips from writers across the board so that new writers can have a guide for starting out. While any story posted on here should be at least be respected, there are some that need improvement.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: A Good Story?

Postby drawscore » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:01 am

Writing is (supposedly) an acquired skill. For most of us, the more we do, the better we get at it. There are others who are just plain bad, and do not have any hope of ever getting better.

Drawscore

Re: A Good Story?

Postby tony2 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:28 am

OK Chad, I'll toss in a couple of ideas:
Minimize the detailed descriptions unless they add to and reinforce the unfolding plot. All too often when a character is introduced several lines are given over to his (or hers) color and type of clothing being worn. Yet a few paragraphs later that person might be lucky to be wearing a pair of boxers or less.

In your description of what the person thought or saw or did in a certain situation stress the elements that make that situation germane to the plot. Usually there is a strong feeling of panic when a gag is properly in place. That moment drives home to the victim that he no longer has any say in his fate from minute to minute. Not only is it humiliating, but frightening of sorts --- even with "friends" : you never know if they have taken a shot of the Dr Jeckel and Mr Hyde juice. if you are chaining him to a tree, elaborate on the points and fears bubbling to the surface in his mind.

Last for now, the first sentence in a paragraph should say what they are going to learn from the rest of the paragraph and make them curious enough to keep reading it The last sentence should summarize the high points of what you just told them AND tease a brief transition into the next paragraph.

Yes, I know that conversations are most easily read when the verbalizations are separated by a blank line. Stay open in your planning --- write what you feel works to keep the plot hot and moving forward.

Hope that my be of some help to someone out there.

Aloha from Hawaii,
Tony2
If you believe in yourself enough -
nobody else will figure out you're faking it.


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Re: A Good Story?

Postby chadmc90 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:41 pm

Thanks, Tony, for the great tips and all of them are good! And I'm happy this topic got back on track.

I am considering collecting all the advice here and combining it into a PDF or some sort of document. It would be nice to have this as a sticky at the top of all the story sections so writers can see these.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: A Good Story?

Postby tony2 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:32 am

good idea...
If you believe in yourself enough -
nobody else will figure out you're faking it.


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Re: A Good Story?

Postby chadmc90 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:22 pm

So, I have noticed another trend going on with this site. There are some writers that have gotten into the habit of posting story after story in the sections. What I mean is that some people will post a couple chapters for a new story, then turn around and start yet another one a week later. Some writers aren't as bad, but I do notice that the quality of writing in these stories isnt as good as compared to one that is updated periodically.

So what do you think? Do you belive that writers should only have 2-3 stories ongoing or 10? And do you think rushing stories like this degrades the quality? I considered putting this in a new thread, but decided against it.
Check out my latest story A Cowboy's Dream!

Feedback highly appreciated! Feel free to Private Message me if you prefer to not post on the public forum!

Re: A Good Story?

Postby xtc » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:48 am

We should be aware, though, that some skillful writers can juggle several threads at once. Jason Toddman, when he was contributing his stories to the site, is one such example. It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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