Elusive_lady wrote:After lurking for some time, I joined just now, and found a whole new section...and what an interesting post!
Ron, I agree with most of what you wrote, except the part about sexual bondage being immoral. Even the site you linked us to judges it to be acceptable to God within marriage.
Outside of marriage, it is dangerous, if you want to be a virgin when you get married. Not to give anyone a pass, Christians do have sex before getting married.
I also think--actually, I know from experience--that it is possible to play tie up games without it becoming sexual. If you're looking for something sexual, and you play suh games, you're not going to be pleased with the results, but if you just want to see what it's like to be bound, or try to escape, or something like this, it can be done and is harmless.
Teens playing tie-up games do take a risk, but if they have the facts, and know exactly what they're getting into up front, the risk is lessened, I think.
Yes, I am a Christian, and yes, I enjoy both bondage and Tugs. There is a difference.
ron wrote:I think I agree with most of what you all have to say. Even you, bindkelly. BTW bindkelly, I had read your posts but others too. I think minors need to be careful. It's good to know there were others in the house. Are they OK with you doing this?
bindKelly wrote:ron wrote:I think I agree with most of what you all have to say. Even you, bindkelly. BTW bindkelly, I had read your posts but others too. I think minors need to be careful. It's good to know there were others in the house. Are they OK with you doing this?
They're ok with it, as long as I just get tied up at home and when one of them is there (no, not in the room!).
btw, Happy New Year to everyone!
Rope_guy wrote: One reason that bondage was not an issue in the Bible because it was commonly used to restrain prisoners in those days. Bondage as a sexual act is a fairly recent development, probably going no further back than the 19th Century.
Terry wrote:Doesn't the bible have a lot of bondage anyway? It always talks about the "house of bondage", etc whatever that means?
Jack Roper wrote:Perhaps reading the Bible literally is a form of bondage in itself. And certainly any number of Christians have emulated the Passion scenes, what with self-flaggelation and being hoisted onto a Cross every Easter. I have a book called "Bondage of the Mind: How Old Testament Fundamentalism Shackles the Mind and Enslaves the Spirit," by R. D. Gold. The title says it all. And St. Paul was one of the most repressed individuals in the New Testament, whose practices have been carried forward by the Catholic Church unto this day.
Here is a quote from another book: "How to Attain Enlightenment" by James Swartz, that seems relevant : "it is not clear who wrote the Old Testament, but it is a good example of truth and ignorance sitting side by side. God, 'The Eternal,' kindly leads the Israelites out of the darkness. However, when Moses asks him what to do about another tribe that is getting in the way of their march to the 'land of milk and honey,' which is a symbol for freedom, he says to kill them. Evidently, the Eternal is an 'us and them' kind of god."
Re: so called perversions such as homosexuality, I challenge anyone, Christian, Jew or Atheist, to find one word of condemnation of homosexuality by Jesus in the New Testament. If you base your life on any unquestioned belief sytem you will undoubtedly find yourself in psychological and spiritual bondage. While this may appear comforting in an "us vs. them" kind of way, it remains one of the worst forms of bondage imaginable.
Playing TUG's doesn't hold a candle to such ignorance, in my humble opinion.
ron wrote:Jack Roper wrote:Perhaps reading the Bible literally is a form of bondage in itself. And certainly any number of Christians have emulated the Passion scenes, what with self-flaggelation and being hoisted onto a Cross every Easter. I have a book called "Bondage of the Mind: How Old Testament Fundamentalism Shackles the Mind and Enslaves the Spirit," by R. D. Gold. The title says it all. And St. Paul was one of the most repressed individuals in the New Testament, whose practices have been carried forward by the Catholic Church unto this day.
Here is a quote from another book: "How to Attain Enlightenment" by James Swartz, that seems relevant : "it is not clear who wrote the Old Testament, but it is a good example of truth and ignorance sitting side by side. God, 'The Eternal,' kindly leads the Israelites out of the darkness. However, when Moses asks him what to do about another tribe that is getting in the way of their march to the 'land of milk and honey,' which is a symbol for freedom, he says to kill them. Evidently, the Eternal is an 'us and them' kind of god."
Re: so called perversions such as homosexuality, I challenge anyone, Christian, Jew or Atheist, to find one word of condemnation of homosexuality by Jesus in the New Testament. If you base your life on any unquestioned belief sytem you will undoubtedly find yourself in psychological and spiritual bondage. While this may appear comforting in an "us vs. them" kind of way, it remains one of the worst forms of bondage imaginable.
Playing TUG's doesn't hold a candle to such ignorance, in my humble opinion.
This was not intended as a critique of Christianity. I disagree on almost every point, but we can agree to disagree. When one reads interpretations of the Bible designed to allow you to hear what you want to hear, you probably will. As I said in the initial post, I did not intend for this topic to be a launching pad for preaching or bashing. I did not bring up fetishes to impune homosexuals, although I could respond at legnth to your challenge if I wanted to stray down that land mine laden rabbit trail. For the Christian who takes his or her faith seriously, it is important to consider where or if tie up games fit, and if so to what extent they are appropriate. I, for one, am not a Christian mired in Old Testament legalism, although Jesus did say he came not to condemn the law but to fulfill it.
Jack Roper wrote:Ron, you said you did not bring this topic up "to preach or condemn." However, simple equating homosexuality with the word "perversion" is a form of condemnation. And I suppose that's because you are a believer in the Bible as the inerrant "word of God," and this includes those sections of the old Testament that condemn homosexuality, which to you is "the law" that Jesus came to fulfill.
Be that as it may my, post was in no way to condemn organized religion as it relates to bondage, but rather to attempt, however feebly, to show that such religion is in itself a form of enslavement--to a belief structure which may or may not be true. I suppose I expect folks to be far more interested in the truth than in any belief they might hold, but that would just make me naive. The question of what is love is far more relevant to me than any belief someone holds regarding love, truth, or the Bible itself (which was written by men after all).
And Kyle: did I really miss the point or merely enlarge the scope of the inquiry? And isn't what Ron initially asked an inquiry, and isn't posting a response on here part of that inquiry?
Jack Roper wrote:Ron, you said you did not bring this topic up "to preach or condemn." However, simple equating homosexuality with the word "perversion" is a form of condemnation. And I suppose that's because you are a believer in the Bible as the inerrant "word of God," and this includes those sections of the old Testament that condemn homosexuality, which to you is "the law" that Jesus came to fulfill.
Be that as it may my, post was in no way to condemn organized religion as it relates to bondage, but rather to attempt, however feebly, to show that such religion is in itself a form of enslavement--to a belief structure which may or may not be true. I suppose I expect folks to be far more interested in the truth than in any belief they might hold, but that would just make me naive. The question of what is love is far more relevant to me than any belief someone holds regarding love, truth, or the Bible itself (which was written by men after all).
And Kyle: did I really miss the point or merely enlarge the scope of the inquiry? And isn't what Ron initially asked an inquiry, and isn't posting a response on here part of that inquiry?
Terry wrote:How about the devil being tied up for 1000 years in Revelation? There is probably bondage in Rivers of Babylon too. "They led us into captivity, require us to sing a song" or something like that? There is tons of bondage in the bible.