## Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by jonson000001 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:48 pm

What do you think about the war going on in gaza right now?
My opinion, as Israeli, is that Hamas is the cause of this conflict. I am sad from all casualties but I think Hamas brought it on himself.
most of Israeli leadership agree that the Palestinian people is not our enemy, Hamas is our enemy.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Jack Roper » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:15 pm

Here is a lengthy response to your question by John Judis in the New Republic.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1188 ... ir-new-war

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Kyle » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:49 pm

Here's the cycle most violence in Israel seems to follow:
-Some Palestinians kill a few Israelis
-Israel decides to exact vengeance by blowing the hell out of Palestinians, whether they had anything to do with the killings or not
-Palestinians fire some rockets back and kill a few more Israelis
-Somebody works out a temporary peace between the two
-Down the road some Palestinians kill a few Israelis...etc.
This conflict seems to have followed that timeline down pretty well.
I do think Hamas is the root cause of a lot of the issues over there, and feel like if they didn't actively work to kill Israelis most of the issues wouldn't occur. But Israel certainly doesn't help itself out by their methods of dealing with things. Israel would solve a problem of having rats in the house by burning down the neighborhood.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by SelenaGfan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:59 pm

I think Israel has every right to defend itself and that Hamas purposely fires their rockets from where they
know civilians will get hurt or killed.The Palestinians need to work with Israel to locate and dismantle Hamas.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:11 pm

Your "cycle" is missing the crucial "Israelis illegally occupy land for nearly half a century, bulldoze homes to build some for themselves, state 'we live here now' and treat Palestinians as subhumans", which is pretty important.

> SelenaGfan wrote:I think Israel has every right to defend itself and that Hamas purposely fires their rockets from where they
> know civilians will get hurt or killed.The Palestinians need to work with Israel to locate and dismantle Hamas.

Sorry, saying "but they're near civilians!" does not give you the moral high ground and a blank check to massacre those civilians anyway. Israel is a rogue state and if an arab were in charge of it there would have been a UN mandated multinational invasion and overthrow thirty damn years ago. The "plucky little Israel under assault" lie is exactly that: a lie.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Kyle » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:23 pm

> SelenaGfan wrote:I think Israel has every right to defend itself and that Hamas purposely fires their rockets from where they
> know civilians will get hurt or killed.The Palestinians need to work with Israel to locate and dismantle Hamas.

I agree Israel has the right to defend itself. I don't have a problem with the fact they do it...except they're doing way, way much more than defending themselves. If Israel simply killed people who were terrorists, I think a lot more people would be on their side.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Kyle » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:49 pm

> misterg792000 wrote:Your "cycle" is missing the crucial "Israelis illegally occupy land for nearly half a century, bulldoze homes to build some for themselves, state 'we live here now' and treat Palestinians as subhumans", which is pretty important.

I don't exactly agree with everything Israel does in regards to the Palestinians, but let's keep a few things in mind here:
-Israel initially had much less land area than it has now. It gained land as it was attacked by its neighbors, including the Palestinians
-Plenty of Palestinians don't just want to share land with the Israelis; they want to destroy the Israelis. That's how they got themselves into this mess in the first place.
-Israel occupied the West Bank specifically because they were attacked in 1967.
Israel deserves plenty of criticism for how they handle things. But let's not pretend the Palestinians are innocent victims here.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Chris12 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:55 am

While Israel is doing is very disproportionate but i honestly can't see the Palestinian's as victims in all of this. They started this and considering they have no hope of winning when it comes to military muscles it baffles me.
Hamas is picking fights they simply cannot win and even worse, actively work against their own cause. Hamas isn't Israel's enemy, in many way's its Israel's best friend. Having them as an enemy is great PR for Israel and gives them all the excuses they need further oppress the Palestinians. Perhaps we should just look the other way so that the Palestinians see where Hamas will take them, see how incapable they really are.
The Palestinians don't need rockets, guns and Islamist, they need to win the world to their side, they need good PR. What the Palestinians need isn't soldiers but a Palestinian Mandela to win the hearts of the world. Only then will the world stop supporting Israel.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by skybird137 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:15 am

This has been going on since the Bronze Age, and I don't see it ending soon.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:26 am

> Kyle wrote:

> > misterg792000 wrote:Your "cycle" is missing the crucial "Israelis illegally occupy land for nearly half a century, bulldoze homes to build some for themselves, state 'we live here now' and treat Palestinians as subhumans", which is pretty important.

> I don't exactly agree with everything Israel does in regards to the Palestinians, but let's keep a few things in mind here:
> -Israel initially had much less land area than it has now. It gained land as it was attacked by its neighbors, including the Palestinians

It didn't "gain land". The West Bank and Gaza were not annexed, nor were the Palestinians living there made citizens. They were, and are now, illegally occupied.

> Kyle wrote:-Plenty of Palestinians don't just want to share land with the Israelis; they want to destroy the Israelis. That's how they got themselves into this mess in the first place.

How do you "get yourself into a mess" by living in a place that happens to be invaded and occupied anyway?

> Kyle wrote:Israel deserves plenty of criticism for how they handle things. But let's not pretend the Palestinians are innocent victims here.

Yes, let's not pretend that the four children murdered on a beach and the nearly one thousand other civilians killed thus far are "innocent victims". The true victims here are a few square feet of Israeli scrubland hit by toy rockets.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by jonson000001 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:52 am

It is funny you think Hamas goal is to free the palestinian people. The only goal of Hamas is to fight evrything that is not radical islam (and that includ the usa)

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:05 am

> jonson000001 wrote:It is funny you think Hamas goal is to free the palestinian people. The only goal of Hamas is to fight evrything that is not radical islam (and that includ the usa)

Even funnier that you're building straw men and ignoring the fact that Hamas would not have the power or following it does now if your countrymen hadn't made such a business of repressing and slaughtering them. But please, tells us more about how plucky underdog Israel is only defending itself from four year olds.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by jonson000001 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:19 am

Israel is not an underdoog. This is not a fair fight, BUT this is not our problem. Any country will evrything to ensure that their people is safe (One rocket on New York and there was no Gaza).
Israel dose NOT deliberately kill civilian, but it is war (belive me, the US kill much more).

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:46 pm

> jonson000001 wrote:Israel is not an underdoog. This is not a fair fight, BUT this is not our problem.

If you're involved in the disproportional part of the fight, how is it anyone's problem but yours?

> Kyle wrote:Any country will evrything to ensure that their people is safe (One rocket on New York and there was no Gaza).

Nonsensical word salad.

> jonson000001 wrote:Israel dose NOT deliberately kill civilian, but it is war (belive me, the US kill much more).

The US hasn't killed more than 1,000 civilians in the last couple of weeks, so your deflection attempt is pretty poorly timed. Of course, one could also handwave away the entire holocaust by shrugging and saying "but it is war".
Israel kills roughly 7 civilians for every militant; there's actual video of them intentionally bombing four children last week. In light of this, previous "human shield" actions during the second intifada, and the wanton deliberate destruction of civilian housing leaves no conclusion for a reasonable human being *except* that Israel deliberately targets civilians.
They are a bloodthirsty rogue nation that acts with impunity, suffering no consequences, and treating their massacres as entertainment. One can only hope the US will one day have leadership sane enough to stop funding them; be interesting to see how quickly you sue for peace when the infinite supply of bullets and planes from Uncle Sam is cut off.
Last edited by misterg792000 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by drawscore » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:10 pm

I saw where some Muslim terrorists in Iraq (who are aligned with the Palestinians) decapitated 50 Iraqi soldiers, and put their heads on pikes.
Now, if you want to end this, you capture a couple dozen low or mid level terrorist leaders, execute them, then bury them in pig shit, or with the carcasses of pigs. (One thing Jews and Muslims agree upon, is that pigs are "unclean," and you will not go to heaven if you die with a pig, or are buried with one.)
General Arthur MacArthur, Douglas MacArthur's father, and governor of the Philippines in the early 1900's, allegedly had a Muslim terrorist problem, so he rounded up 50 terrorists, executed 49 of them, buried them in a trench filled with pig carcasses, and released the 50th, to go back to his terrorist leaders, and tell them what he witnessed. MacArthur had no further terrorist problems. (It is noted that this same action has also been attributed to General John "Black Jack" Pershing, and that the number of executed terrorists varies between 4 and 59.)
Drawscore

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Scottstud94 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:24 pm

Go Israel gooooooo....

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:13 pm

> drawscore wrote:I saw where some Muslim terrorists in Iraq (who are aligned with the Palestinians) decapitated 50 Iraqi soldiers, and put their heads on pikes.

Somewhere, someone said "we need someone to mix apples and oranges and vastly oversimplify a situation while ignoring that not a single Muslim state, Hezbollah, or Hamas are on good terms with ISIS! Hell they're both nominally muslim, therefore they're pals, right?". Elsewhere, drawscore woke up and sat down at his computer without knowing why.

> drawscore wrote:Now, if you want to end this, you capture a couple dozen low or mid level terrorist leaders, execute them, then bury them in pig shit, or with the carcasses of pigs. (One thing Jews and Muslims agree upon, is that pigs are "unclean," and you will not go to heaven if you die with a pig, or are buried with one.)

Now if you want to spot someone who doesn't know the first thing about Islam or Judaism, watch for them to repeat this tired-ass old urban legend about Jack Pershing and the old "pigs = unclean = lol that will scare those savages" ignorance. Nowhere in Judaism or Islam will you find a single person who believes that post-mortem, involuntary contact with a pig means a damn thing to their deity, no more than you'll find a christian who believes that having gay sex with a corpse covered in shellfish would send the deceased to hell.
Good to see that the notion of acting like a savage yourself gets you all hot and bothered though. Telling, really.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Kyle » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:59 pm

> misterg792000 wrote:

> > Kyle wrote:Any country will evrything to ensure that their people is safe (One rocket on New York and there was no Gaza).

> Nonsensical word salad.

I sure don't remember saying this.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by skybird137 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:16 pm

> jonson000001 wrote:Israel is not an underdoog. This is not a fair fight, BUT this is not our problem. Any country will evrything to ensure that their people is safe (One rocket on New York and there was no Gaza).
> Israel dose NOT deliberately kill civilian, but it is war (belive me, the US kill much more).

This is the post where it comes from, Kyle. It appears that someone was all too eager to put someone else's words into your mouth.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:12 am

> Kyle wrote:

> > misterg792000 wrote:

> > > Kyle wrote:Any country will evrything to ensure that their people is safe (One rocket on New York and there was no Gaza).

> > Nonsensical word salad.

> I sure don't remember saying this.

I sure don't remember misquoting it, but apparently I did. Whoops.

> skybird137 wrote:This is the post where it comes from, Kyle. It appears that someone was all too eager to put someone else's words into your mouth.

Or someone still had [quote="Kyle"] on their clipboard from earlier and it's silly to read intent into it.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by skybird137 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:23 am

> Or someone still had

> > Kyle wrote: on their clipboard from earlier and it's silly to read intent into it.

I only pointed out that it was a possibility, and the fact that the "Kyle" part comes between two "jonson000001" seems to suggest that you made the mother of all errors if it wasn't deliberate. Newspapers have been sued for less. Plus, to use the word silly as a petty insult still makes me wonder if it was an error, seeing as you are being manipulative with that comment.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:46 am

> skybird137 wrote:

> > Or someone still had

> > > Kyle wrote: on their clipboard from earlier and it's silly to read intent into it.

> I only pointed out that it was a possibility, and the fact that the "Kyle" part comes between two "jonson000001" seems to suggest that you made the mother of all errors if it wasn't deliberate. Newspapers have been sued for less. Plus, to use the word silly as a petty insult still makes me wonder if it was an error, seeing as you are being manipulative with that comment.

Check your paranoia, you certainly seem more worried about it than either me or Kyle.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by skybird137 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:53 am

[url]Check your paranoia, you certainly seem more worried about it than either me or Kyle.[/url]
It seems that all you are capable of doing is hurling insults, instead of providing any kind of reasonable argument. What are you going to do next, hurl an even bigger one?

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:17 am

> skybird137 wrote:[url]Check your paranoia, you certainly seem more worried about it than either me or Kyle.[/url]
> It seems that all you are capable of doing is hurling insults, instead of providing any kind of reasonable argument. What are you going to do next, hurl an even bigger one?

If you see an insult there it's your problem, not mine. But by all means, continue this silly derail to avoid dealing with anything else I've said.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by skybird137 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:29 am

Now you try to pretend that claiming someone else has paranoia is not an insult. Could you tell me where you got your medical training to make an incredible medical diagnosis after a few lines of text?
[url]But by all means, continue this silly derail to avoid dealing with anything else I've said.[/url]
All I did was point out that it was you who misquoted Kyle and pointed out the possibility of it not being accidental. Since then your behaviour has been aggressive. Maybe if you stop being so on the attack, I wouldn't need to respond.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by mistofoleese » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:33 am

> misterg792000 wrote:

> > skybird137 wrote:[url]Check your paranoia, you certainly seem more worried about it than either me or Kyle.[/url]
> > It seems that all you are capable of doing is hurling insults, instead of providing any kind of reasonable argument. What are you going to do next, hurl an even bigger one?

> If you see an insult there it's your problem, not mine. But by all means, continue this silly derail to avoid dealing with anything else I've said.

my take on all of this

Attachments

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by skybird137 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:38 am

You are right MM, the normal thread comments should carry on from here.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by Chris12 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:35 am

I think this video is relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY
This land is mine.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by jonson000001 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:44 am

> Chris12 wrote:I think this video is relevant.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY
> This land is mine.

Yes, sad but true.

### Re: Operation Protective Edge (2014 Israel–Gaza conflict)

Post by misterg792000 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:12 pm

> skybird137 wrote:Now you try to pretend that claiming someone else has paranoia is not an insult. Could you tell me where you got your medical training to make an incredible medical diagnosis after a few lines of text?

There's clearly something wrong since you're still banging on about it as though anyone on the planet but you cares at this point.