Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:48 pm

I may be asking for trouble but I don't care. I for one have been paying attention to many things going on in the world and it disgusts me!!! I am a person who listens to both sides of an argument and this whole gun debate is pissing me off. Now first off let me say that I was sad and angry when I heard about the recent shootings. I hate how those people went out and killed so many innocent people. I am also aware of the fact that our government is out of control. They say that they are protecting the children by getting rid of guns like Ar 15's but they aren't. The only people that are going obey the laws if they are placed are law abiding citizens. Criminals are not going to say "oh semiautomatic guns are now illegal I guess we can't use them." They are going to say "who gives a f***" if our government was really trying to help us children, and I am 17, so you can act like I am annoying little teen who thinks he knows it all or you can find the facts yourself and know I am very intelligent for a 17 year old living in a small town in Colorado; then why is it that our banks, our celebrities, our president, our governors, our congressman, our sporting events, our jewelry stores, our offices, our factories, and even our courts are protected by guns but our schools and children are protected by signs that say " guns prohibited on this premises?" I mean seriously does that make any since. Yes "people" using guns have killed a lot of "people" (guns don't kill people, people kill people.) but did you know every year 40,000 people die from car accidents? Or that, 500 people die from tylonol overdoses every year? Our guns aren't the only things killing people in our country. In fact compare the 26 deaths in new town Connecticut to 500, or 40,000 deaths throughout the country every year. Yes I feel mortified for what happened to those children and adults but seriously out of 500 and 40,000 deaths how many do you think are children and adults? AR 15's may shoot off many round at one time but how accurate are the bullets. If you had four ten round handguns with you and a bunch of magazines you can kill a lot more people because you will have better accuracy and a lot of ammunition. Just ponder this for a little bit. Oh and one more thing. Our government is slowly taking away our freedoms one by one. If you don't believe me take a look around. We can no longer talk about religion in school and they are trying to get rid of the pledge of allegiance do to the fact that it mentions god in it. I believe in our freedom of religion but you know what that is Rediculous! I don't want to go to school and be preached to about god but I still believe I should be able to go to school and express my religion. In some schools if you wear a shirt with any mentioning of god to school you can be suspended. Why is that? It isn't like wearing a T-shirt with god on it is forcing someone to believe in my way of religion. It is just a shirt. This all ties back to the same thing though. I believe in ID checks for guns and age checks but I alson believe our government is taking our rights. When we lose our guns we lose our freedom. First they said they only wanted to get rid of fully automatic guns, now they are saying they want to get rid of semiautomatic guns. Once all semi automatic guns a gone they can take our gun rights completely away without a fight because we won't have auto or semi auto guns but they will and they sure ass hell will use them. If we stand together and fight we can stop them before its too late. Don't let any more soldiers to die in vein protecting our freedoms! They have died in foreign soil but let me ask you. Did any of the recent wars we have battles in actually involve us. Did those countries attack is? No they didn't we stepped in and attacked them. Iraq never attacked us. Afghanistan never attacked us! So why are our soldiers dying in those countries aren't even a threat to us? Stand up and fight.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby FelixSH » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:35 am

Taking away your guns doesn´t mean that your rights are taken away. Here in Austria, we have way stronger restrictions on this stuff. If you want a weapon, you have to register it. Aside from that, you also have to proof that you need it to protect yourself because you live in a dangerous neighborhood or something like that. As someone who dislikes guns, I can live with that arrangement.

I think it is similar in a lot of other countries. If you believe that guns make it more save to live in a country, look at some statistics. The amount of people who die by being shot is absurdly high in the US, compared to other countries with stricter laws. Aside from that, do you really think you can protect yourself against your government if you and all the people have guns? Normal people against trained specialists? I can´t imagine that.

That people die from car accidents is a different matter. First, driving already IS restricted to people who pass the test and (I imagine in the US as well) are registered. Second, cars are incredibly useful, our world simply wouldn´t work the way it does without them, so we have to accept the risks they bring with them.

I´m not sure where you want to get with the last part about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You are right, the US shouldn´t have fought this wars, but that´s a different matter.

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Chris12 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:55 am

Firstly it baffles me a bit that gun ownership is considered a right, it shouldn't be. Having a gun should be a privilige, one that can be taken away permanently or for a sett amount of time if you break the law.

I personally don't think civilians have any business owning a gun but that said i'm willing to give Americans the benifit of the doubt when they claim to need it for self defense. Still have no idea why people would want to have hard grade millitary weapons though.

So yeah, the self defense argument is a somewhat valid one depending where you live even though i don't really agree with it. However what you must defend against depends on the people you talk to. The majority says its from criminals, okay fine. A number however claim its to ''Fight back against that evil government''....ugh. Firstly owning a gun will do you little good should the American army ever get the orders to randomly shoot people and more importantly its simply a bad reason. If people honestly believe their government is just itching to turn into the Sith empire and collect weapons to defend themselves from that then....those people are in the wrong.

We have a pretty strict gun controll and it seems to be working out for us, not always though but it has served us more positively then negatively. Maybe instead of clinging to the right to carrry to make themselves feel safe America should start working towards a safer country, one that wouldn't need guns to make people feel safe.

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:48 am

I understand other countries with stricter gun laws are safer. I admit that the death rates from guns in my country are extremely high but I was born into freedom and I have been watching what our government has been doing. Our government is slowly taking our rights away and it is angering. My father, uncle, and one of my brothers were in the marines and fought for my rights. You guys have stricter gun laws but how many freedoms do you have? I am not trying to insult you I am just asking. Yes if our government tried to turn communist and we had the guns to defend ourselves we may not be a match against the military but there are many veteran soldiers and military soldiers who would rise against our government if they tried to do this.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby xtc » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:14 am

You ask a Dutch person what freedoms he has???!!
Get real!
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:48 am

I was just asking no need to be rude. My bad for asking a question. There is something wrong with the world when you can't ask a question without pissing someone off. It was only a question. My point is it is my freedom and right to own a gun and my government is taking it away. It makes me angry. I may be 17 but that doesn't mean I can't defend my rights.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby FelixSH » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:40 am

So you think you will lose all freedom only because your right to own guns is restricted? We aren´t even talking about a complete ban of weapons for private persons (even though that would be the best solution, imo), but about control. Guns are dangerous, so it is the job of the government to restrict there availability. Again, compare them to cars: There are restrictions for owners. What speaks against some rules, like restricting people to own only small weapons or paying insurence, for the case that someone gets hurt with it. Stuff like that.

Aside from that, I´m curious: What exactly do you have a problem with? That you have a specific right and this one right is taken away from you? Do you think this one right will result in a communist nation? Serious question.
And I assure you that I, and also Chris, have a lot of freedom. If anyone here would suggest to give everyone the right to own a gun, like in the US, people would think they are insane (no offense intended).

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:25 am

no offense taken. I honestly don't want our guns taken because its our right. The second amendment of the United States states that we have the right to bear arms. I do believe in gun controls but I feel my government is taking my freedoms. It isn't just guns. We lost religion in school, and many public places because somebody whined that we were imposing our religions onto others. If our government takes our semi automatic guns then they will have nothing to stop them from taking our guns completely. Why should we not have guns? Guns don't kill people people kill people. I know your country may be strict with guns but that is your country. I don't want to lose my freedoms. And if you live in Austria you should know that when you annexed your self to Germany they took all your freedoms away in five year. What makes you think my government won't do that to us?
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Chris12 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:51 am

I was just asking no need to be rude. My bad for asking a question


Where you replaying to xtc? If thats the case don't worry, i think he was joking :big:

How free are we in the netherlands? No less free then America i'd say. Where we are strict with guns we are more tollerant to soft drugs for example. To each country its own quirks i guess :)

About religion, why is it a problem religion isn't thaught in the classroom anymore? Seperation from church and state is a good thing. Religion is from my experiance at least a very personal thing so what place has a shool in it?

And if you live in Austria you should know that when you annexed your self to Germany they took all your freedoms away in five year. What makes you think my government won't do that to us?


Well, firstly because its not the prelude to WW II :big: Austria joining Germany didn't realy have to do with a government power trip either, it was a cultural thing plus, Hitler himself was an Austrian but to answer why your government won't do the same, because there is no reason for it. The government cracking down German style just isn't in its interest.

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby xtc » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:55 am

OK. I tried to ignore the poorly written diatribe at first sight but there are some provocations that are irresistible.

How dare the writer question whether the citizens of other civilised countries have rights?
• Our citizens have the right not to be murdered by our judiciary.
• We have the right not to be spirited away to an off-shore prison if the Government doesn’t believe it can prove a case against us in open court. (To my shame, my Government IS complicit in “special rendition” –or in plain English, kidnapping).
• Our children have the right to expect not to be beaten in school.
• I have the “right” still to be walking. Without a health service free at the point of delivery, I would not have been able to afford to have had both knees replaced.
• Our children have the right not to be imprisoned without hope of parole.
• Our schools do not have such a poor grasp of history that they tell the pupils that Russia was not an ally in WWII. Yes, I do know that that has happened.

Oh yes, there’s one right that, unlike GoldenNoveta, I don’t enjoy: the right not to be extradited to the USA without a prima facie case having been presented in court first. Do they still want to imprison the guy with Asperger’s Syndrome who cracked the Pentagon codes while searching for little green men? He should have been given a commendation for raising the Pentagon’s awareness of the inadequacy of its data protection protocols.

Now to the presented “arguments”.
• It is surely nonsensical to say, “more people get killed on the roads, therefore there is no point in introducing gun controls.” Have I missed a point here or is one phenomenon completely independent of the other?

I wonder if the original poster knows anything about other countries other than the USA. For instance does he know about nations such as the UK, Holland or Switzerland. Previously I could have pointed out that Switzerland is swilling with firearms but there is little gun crime in order to ask the poster to question why that is not true in the USA. Recently, however, there has been an unfortunate incident but that is a rarity compared with gun-crime in the US no matter how it is measured.

I don’t need to go into questions here about which “category” of person found it easiest to dodge the draft or whether any of them ever became President of the USA but I understand that every eighteen year old still has to register.

Last thing then: why, when GoldenNoveta wrote, “I may be asking for trouble but I don't care.” does he get upset when I question his nonsensical questioning of the rights enjoyed by the citizens of civilised countries.

OK then, that wasn’t the last thing. As a religious pagan (Ásatrú – no, I’m not a knife-wielding Nazi thug!) I believe I should be able to carry my sword in public. It is important that it has never been used for violent purposes. For obvious reasons of course, except under special circumstances, I do not do so and a well-known Druid who does keeps getting what is basically his athamé impounded by the police. How would that go down as freedom of religion in the USA? We do share some injustices but we must understand that originally freedom of religion in the US meant the freedom of the puritans to oppress everyone else in the same way as (with some justification) they saw themselves as having been oppressed.

Now I’ll get the nurse to get me my pills and settle down with a nice mug of cocoa.


PS. No Chris, I wasn't joking. I was just astounded by the ignorance of the assettion.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:17 am

Look XTC I wasn't pissed for your comment I just found it harsh that you responded like that and I never did anything to you. You may have a lot of freedoms and I never said you didn't I was only asking. What makes my country uncivilized. You haven't lived in America you don't know what it is like. I wasn't trying to piss you off but obviously you are trying to piss me off. I don't agree with everything my government does but I sure ass hell know that I love my country. And just for your information the oppression of the puritans was when our country first began. Now we don't have that. Get you facts straight and don't be biased. There is two sides to every story so don't act like my country has always oppressed our religion. That wasn't even the main point. I am sorry for my writing but I am typing this from my iPod so I can't exactly do the best typing. At least my words are spelled correctly and most of my grammar is correct. I know my country has given us false history but don't blame it on the school. What did your country teach you about WWII because I am pretty sure it wasn't what I schools taught us. This world is full of liars and I know damn well that there is not a single country out there that teaches history using both sides of every event.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby xtc » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:38 pm

OK Let’s take the personal out of this.

“What makes my country uncivilized” - is that a question? Where did I say your country WAS uncivilised? I merely pointed out that others were not.

“You haven't lived in America” – absolutely correct. I have not. Which of my assertions do you wish to refute? I’d like to know if any of them is wrong.

“ . . . obviously you are trying to piss me off.” - Why does my questioning your assertions make you think I’m trying to piss you off? I thought you were “asking”?

“ . . . the oppression of the puritans was when our country first began. Now we don't have that.” - That betrays a misunderstanding of history. History is not something that happened; it is something that is happening. The past informs the present. The imperative to make a profit was a puritan concept (Please correct me if this is wrong) and has informed the capitalist nature of American society ever since. Probably the same goes for religious toleration. I’ll be interested to engage in argument (using the term correctly) over that point.

“There is two sides to every story” I agree in many cases but what about my assertion about Russia? That is fact and it was being denied in an American school.

“What did your country teach you about WWII because I am pretty sure it wasn't what I schools taught us” - an interesting question and I’m sure you’re right. It would be very easy to resort to the usual accusations and well-worn jokes but, unless you insist, I’ll refrain from them because I’d genuinely like to know why the US was so late coming into the war.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:27 pm

I was asking what makes my country uncivilized and I am sorry I shouldn't have assumed that you meant it that way. I am sorry for saying that you were trying to piss me off. History has and is happening. We actually no longer have Puritan oppression. Our capitalist economy came after we broke free from Britain and had the Market Revolution. I know what you said about russia was true. I actually was never told that Russia was our enemy I was told that after Germany attacked Russia we stepped in because they asked for our help. I personally believe we only stepped in to protect our foreign relationship with Russia and that my government wouldn't have stepped in if they hadn't thought that Russia was going to successfully defend against Germany. I believe our government thought that if Russia wasn't lost to Germany and we hadn't helped they would have attacked us. I also believe that our government stepped in because Germany was racing to create the atomic bomb and we couldn't let them create it before us. Like I have said I hate my government and believe it is corrupt. I don't know why they were late to join the war accept for the fact that they may have been thinking of heir own interests. And what jokes are you talking about because I was only saying Americans, Russians, Germans, and any other participant in WWII is told different about what had happened and why it happened. The only thing that is told to every nation without any changes is the fact that America whooped Germany's ass.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby drawscore » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:55 pm

The right to keep and bear arms is protected and guaranteed by our Constitution. Yeah, I know, it's 224 years old, but until the congress repeals the 2nd Amendment, we have the right to own firearms. And here in the US, it IS a right, not a privilege.

During World War II, a Japanese general was asked about invading the US. He said he wouldn't think of it, as it would be too costly in lives. He went on to say that because the Americans could own guns, there'd be one behind every bush, and an invading force probably could not get more then five miles inland; ten at best.

Drawscore

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Chris12 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:44 am

I know what you said about russia was true. I actually was never told that Russia was our enemy I was told that after Germany attacked Russia we stepped in because they asked for our help. I personally believe we only stepped in to protect our foreign relationship with Russia and that my government wouldn't have stepped in if they hadn't thought that Russia was going to successfully defend against Germany. I believe our government thought that if Russia wasn't lost to Germany and we hadn't helped they would have attacked us.


That not entirely true. America never stepped in they where dragged into the war kicking and screaming when Japan attacked. America wanted to stay out of it, or at least the people, Rooseveld wanted to join the war and for good reasons too but opposition to it was pretty big. There also wasn't any foreight relationship with Russia worth protecting, the Sovjet union was considered satanic by Nazi and allies alike. The only reason Russia joined and was allowed to join the allies is because they where condemed to each other. Russian strenght was vital to bring down Germany. Without them Britain and America would have been defeated and without them Russia would not have the industrial and logistic power to defeat Germany.

I don't know why they were late to join the war accept for the fact that they may have been thinking of heir own interests


Oppertunism really. The longer Britan fought alone the weaker it would be, the weaker Britain would be the better America could replace it as the world power which is exactly what happened.

The only thing that is told to every nation without any changes is the fact that America whooped Germany's ass.


Considering it was Russia and not America who took down 80 %(!) of the wermacht and Hitler himself i'd say thats not very correct

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:02 am

Hey we won that war! And yes now I remember we stepped in after attacked by Japan but we sure as hell weren't going to let Japan just attack is. And no we could have beat Germany's ass without the help of Russia. So don't talk shit and say my country isn't strong and that they couldn't have taken on Germany. Germany had already spread its troops so thin that when we came into the war we were going to win.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Chris12 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:32 am

Hey we won that war!


No America didn't win the war, the Allies which America was part of did. America, Britain, Russia and many more countries. It was a team efford and without one of the major players the other two would have failed.

And no we could have beat Germany's ass without the help of Russia. So don't talk shit and say my country isn't strong and that they couldn't have taken on Germany. Germany had already spread its troops so thin that when we came into the war we were going to win.


No they couldn't. At WW II Germany was the strongest nation on the planet allied with another very powerfull nation, Japan. The change of America winning without Russia and Britian was zero. I can't remember saying America was weak, just that Germany was stronger. Look at it this way, while 80% of the wermacht where being defeated in Russia the remaining Germans managed to give both the British and Americans a run for their money. What would have happened if Germany had access to the other 60%?

Its true that Germany had spread it troops to thin but on its own so would America. Without the allies a two front war against Japan and Germany just couldn't be maintained. Also those tropes where spread to thin because of the invasion of Russia.

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby xtc » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:25 am

The word "we" is equivocal here; did it mean "America" or "the Allies"? I have two words: Russian Front.
Oh, by the way, didn't Britain (and the Anzac and other Comonwealth troops and the Free Polish, etc ) have a little to contribute?

Oh, by the way, for anyone who saw the film, British genii and not an American, cracked the Enigma Code with the help of the first electronic computers, which were another British development. Coventry still had to take the hit so that the breaking of the code would not be discovered.

I don't like making jingoistic points like this but it's got nothing to do with weak and strong. It has to do with truth. There is a lot in what Chris12 says.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby drawscore » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:53 pm

Because the right to keep and bear arms is a part of our Constitution, taking that right away, would require an amendment to the Constitution, or the repeal of the 2nd Amendment, just as the 21st Amendment repealed the 18th Amendment (Prohibition).

Amending the Constitution is difficult, and purposely so. To do so, an amendment, or the repeal of an amendment, must pass both houses of congress by a two-thirds majority (290 votes in the house; 67 in the senate), then must be ratified by three-fourths (38) of the state legislatures.

Considering how badly the US is fractured by partisanship, I don't see it happening.

Drawscore

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Kyle » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:49 pm

There is a clear difference in the views of the Europeans who trust their government with guns more than their neighbors and the Americans who believe the opposite (generally speaking).

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Zandor » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:39 pm

its intresting... im just posting to be updated
You are q immortal

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby xtc » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:56 am

Kyle wrote:There is a clear difference in the views of the Europeans who trust their government with guns more than their neighbors and the Americans who believe the opposite (generally speaking).



Like it! I don't agree but I like the joke.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:14 pm

That is bunch of bull and you know it. And we were and have always been the best country. We won every war in our history except for Vietnam and that is only because those idiots were pussies. We may in fact be facing a 3rd world war if North Korea is stupid enough to launch ICBM's at us. No one will win but its the point that we are facing a world war. I am sorry that I am worried and don't trust my government with guns but they give me no choice in the matter. History will repeat itself because this world is a time bomb waiting to blow. Ever since nuclear weapons were created we started the timer and it is only a matter of time before we destroy each other. Our country has stepped in way too much and if we pled out of your countries you wouldn't have all the freedoms you have. We stay there to help you guys out and we don't get any favors back. In my country to own a gun is a right and we damn well deserve that right. No one is dumb enough to invade out country because we own guns so a invading army wouldn't get that far. That's a quote from that smart Japanese general. How would you guys protect your self if an army invaded your country. Oh you wouldn't because we are the ones who step in and protect you.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Jack Roper » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:04 pm

The original post was about the current attempt at some additional forms of gun control in America because of the frequent mass shootings. It seems to have devolved into a discussion of America's role in various wars, etc. However, here is an excellent series of articles from Mother Jones magazine on guns in America and how the National Rifle Association completely distorts the intent of the majority in the US.
I'd love to see the defenders of the Second Amendment explain what the words "well regulated Militia" means in relation to the "right to bear arms." That phrase always seems to be conveniently overlooked.

http://www.motherjones.com/special-repo ... -shootings

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Chris12 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:34 am

GoldenNoveta wrote:That is bunch of bull and you know it. And we were and have always been the best country. We won every war in our history except for Vietnam and that is only because those idiots were pussies. We may in fact be facing a 3rd world war if North Korea is stupid enough to launch ICBM's at us. No one will win but its the point that we are facing a world war. I am sorry that I am worried and don't trust my government with guns but they give me no choice in the matter. History will repeat itself because this world is a time bomb waiting to blow. Ever since nuclear weapons were created we started the timer and it is only a matter of time before we destroy each other. Our country has stepped in way too much and if we pled out of your countries you wouldn't have all the freedoms you have. We stay there to help you guys out and we don't get any favors back. In my country to own a gun is a right and we damn well deserve that right. No one is dumb enough to invade out country because we own guns so a invading army wouldn't get that far. That's a quote from that smart Japanese general. How would you guys protect your self if an army invaded your country. Oh you wouldn't because we are the ones who step in and protect you.


Uh....way to sound like a full blown nationalist i guess :)

No, i don't know America has always been the best country, mostly because it just isn't true, for a large part of your history i'd even say it was a backwater! For at least 80% of American history it would have been blown away by any major European power if the need arose. Before world war two America was in no way the most powerfull nation on earth nor the most important one. The ones who where would have been Germany and Britain, with France not far behind. America helping and ''protecting'' others seems a bit like a laugh. You know most of those attemps after the cold war have ended in utter failiure? Some of those even before the cold war like the thing with the Contra's. Props are to be given the The US for providing the destroyed Europe money and protection when they rebuild but that was only because they where terrified of the thought Russia might beat them to it. That and we where only allowed to buy American goods with that money. And how is American affecting our freedom? You don't exactly have any political power in the Netherlands and we usually roll our eyes at just how backwards we precieve you as being.

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby xtc » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:12 am

"My dad's bigger than your dad."

"My dad's a policeman."

My dad's the king of the poicemen . . . .


"That is bunch of bull and you know it. And we were and have always been the best country. We won every war in our history except for Vietnam and that is only because those idiots were pussies!" That is not an argument. That is a knee-jerk, unquestioning, jingoistic reaction. An argument is where one pwerson makes apoint, another counters it with reasons and so on. Such points are being made form only one side.

Drawscore made a point to th eoriginal argument and Jack tried to return to the original argument.

If this carries on I shall have to change my mind and resort to the usual offensive jokes.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:26 pm

Do not say your dad is better then mine because my dad is a United States Marine and no one is better than him!!! If we weren't the best than how did we beat Britain when they were the oh super power in the world?! Yes guns in my country are a right and I will die before I will let my crooked ass government take them away.
SubmissiveSissy

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby mistofoleese » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:00 pm

Well.. I guess its time to throw my two cents in .. I do agree with everyone here you all make some good points the my dad is bigger than your dad stuff gave me a laugh. As far as the WW2 portion of it well The real reason if you really look at your history on how and why the Allies triumphed in WW 2 was simple we had help from Hitler himself.
He first allowed the Brittish forces at Dunkirk to be evacuated instead of going in and capturing the whole lot which allowed troops be return to defend England
He did not follow through with Operation Sea lion ( The invasion of England) After the failed attempt to destroy The RAF He was with in days of destroying the RAF then he turned to bombing the cities and left the airfields alone.

which enabled England to REBUILD the RAF and eventually changed the Whole of Great Brittain into an unsinkable Air Craft Carrier and troop staging area
When the Japanese Bombed pearl Harbor he declared WAR on the United sates up until there was the German American Bund which held PRO Nazi rallies at Madison Square Garden.
He then turned his back on England and in June of 1941 Operation Barbarossa ( The Invasion of Russia) was launched.
At the time Germany had the most powerful Air force on the planet but STILL was un able to totally destroy the RAF
Rommel with his Africa Corps had some impressive victories but lacked the supplies and was beaten by the shear numbers the allied forces had at their command

The SAME went on in several other famous battles Such as Kursk the LARGEST TANK BATTLE of WW 2 in July of 1943

Then when the allies invaded on the 6th of June 1944 Ol Adolf was asleep and NO ONE dared to wake him giving the allies a chance to get a serious foot hold before they sent in the Panzers
When the Panzers DID arrive the Allied Tankers knew they were in trouble first from the hedgerows and from the panzers themselves not just ANY panzers but one of the most feared panzers of them all... the TIGER with whit its thick frontal armor it could take anything the allies could throw at it look up Battle of Villars vocage or Micheal Whittman you will understand.
In 1940 Hitler could have had operational Jet fighters but delayed them until 44 the Allies there was no WE OR THEM
It was the Allies who ALL came together to fight and put an end to the AXIS plans.
As far as Korea Vietnam sadly I dont know as much about those conflicts as I do WW 2 but to get off the history lesson
and get back on track of this thread.
Put YOUR SELF in this scenario if some one was about to break into your home for what ever reason to rob rape or kill would you try to get away in hopes they dont come after you OR stand and fight with a firearm ready to light them up like a christmas tree should they come any further as SEVERAL people around the country have already done
Better still if you were the parent and you got word that some one tried to break into your home while only your young daughters were there ( every parents worst night mare ) IF the young girls were properly schooled in fire arms training people like the Smart Family and sadly the Klaass family wouldnt have had to endure what they endured
Mind you all this is one VETERANS point of view Ive seen mans inhumanity to man up close and personal .
To me it doesnt matter WHICH uniform you wear only the courage to stand up for your beliefs for that doesnt take a uniform. if you see a wrong do something about it Deeds not words people
Go get em !

Mist

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby Chris12 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:52 am

GoldenNoveta wrote:Do not say your dad is better then mine because my dad is a United States Marine and no one is better than him!!! If we weren't the best than how did we beat Britain when they were the oh super power in the world?! Yes guns in my country are a right and I will die before I will let my crooked ass government take them away.


I never talked about our dads but everyone thinks their dad is better then someone else his :big:

Your talking about the revolution? The atlantic ocean and vital support from France which they never get credit for. Beating someone also doesn't always mean your army is stronger, there are lots of diffrent factors. Don't they teach history or something?

Well.. I guess its time to throw my two cents in .. I do agree with everyone here you all make some good points the my dad is bigger than your dad stuff gave me a laugh. As far as the WW2 portion of it well The real reason if you really look at your history on how and why the Allies triumphed in WW 2 was simple we had help from Hitler himself


True, the man wasn't exactly a millitary genius yet insisted to handle most of the war effort personally. Its a big reason why Germany lost.

Re: Gun Debates and our Society.

Postby StarlightServant » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:54 am

Exactly!! Hitler was actually working on airplanes that had guns on them but terminated their funding. His airplanes would have had a huge impact on D-day. Then there was the fact that his scientists were really close to making the atom bomb and America was STM dad behind but since Hitler terminated funding on his almost complete atom bombs he made a huge mistake. Mistofoleese thank you for serving and protecting my country and you are completely right for what you said. Humanity has so many problems and its saddening.
SubmissiveSissy