Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Scottstud94 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:59 pm

Pretty frustrated on my part that Scotland rejected their independence from England errr the UK. Thoughts?

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Reidy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:20 pm

Simply put, they've bottled it. They had a great chance to rid themselves of the Tory government who rule over them (despite Scotland only having one Tory MP), and they didn't take it.

Now the Tories will resort to type and screw them over.

Possibly the first country to ever reject independence.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby xtc » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:29 am

Ah, but it won't saddle England with Tory Governments for the forseeable future.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby jsherwood » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:46 am

Salmond and Sturgeon can now swim far away.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby truly_trussed » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:00 am

Reidy wrote:
Possibly the first country to ever reject independence.


Actually the Province of Quebec voted a couple of times by a narrow margin not to go their separate ways from the rest of Canada.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby mcsproot » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:28 am

I am just waiting for the time I can turn around and say 'told you so' to everyone who voted No. Little consolation, like finding a penny in your pocket after you find out your house burnt down, but at least it's something.
23 year old guy from the UK.

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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Reidy » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:35 pm

mcsproot wrote:I am just waiting for the time I can turn around and say 'told you so' to everyone who voted No. Little consolation, like finding a penny in your pocket after you find out your house burnt down, but at least it's something.




I can see your point. I admit, I don't live in Scotland, but all of my Dad's side of the family are Scottish. I would have loved to see Scotland go independent, mainly for the family's future. This is going to be difficult for them now.


I would advise you get a t-shirt: 'Don't blame me, I voted yes'.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Reidy » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:36 pm

xtc wrote:Ah, but it won't saddle England with Tory Governments for the forseeable future.



A Tory/UKIP government looks very likely come May. Things will only get worse.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby jsherwood » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:07 pm

Reidy wrote:
xtc wrote:Ah, but it won't saddle England with Tory Governments for the forseeable future.



A Tory/UKIP government looks very likely come May. Things will only get worse.


I say hung parliament with Labour having to join what's post-Nick Clegg Lib Dems.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Reidy » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:23 pm

jsherwood wrote:
Reidy wrote:
xtc wrote:Ah, but it won't saddle England with Tory Governments for the forseeable future.



A Tory/UKIP government looks very likely come May. Things will only get worse.


I say hung parliament with Labour having to join what's post-Nick Clegg Lib Dems.



Labour are nothing but a slightly less right wing version of the Tories now. Turned their back on everything their party was. I've always voted for them on the basis that they were the better option, now I don't think I could vote for any of the main parties come May 2015.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby xtc » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:32 pm

I feel your pain, Reidy.

Jshrwood, there will be no rump of the liberal party. They will be totally annihilated. What do you think: perhaps five seats?
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby jsherwood » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:37 pm

xtc wrote:I feel your pain, Reidy.

Jshrwood, there will be no rump of the liberal party. They will be totally annihilated. What do you think: perhaps five seats?


They will still get their Scottish share. You think Labour MPs can take Scotland? Def Clegg will go.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby xtc » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:19 pm

I think even Scottish Liberal voters will see that they didn't vote for this shower. They will not have cast their ballots to elect a Tory government; Scots just don't do that. Some of the working class right might even defect to UKIP, as they will south of the border. Whether some return to Labour or go Scots Nat. I have no idea.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby jsherwood » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:27 pm

xtc wrote:I think even Scottish Liberal voters will see that they didn't vote for this shower. They will not have cast their ballots to elect a Tory government; Scots just don't do that. Some of the working class right might even defect to UKIP, as they will south of the border. Whether some return to Labour or go Scots Nat. I have no idea.


Scots are hardly Tories.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby truly_trussed » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:57 pm

As a Yank, I just wonder if the different parts of the U.K. may be eventually like the States with their 50 state capitals or Canada with a Parliament building for each province. That is the National House of Parliament (the one next to Big Ben) for national taxes or military issues. For more local issues, such as education or transit might they be handled by Parliaments serving England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the equivalent of State or Provincial legislatures. That how it's done in North America.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Reidy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:00 am

For the way that they got into bed with the Tories, Labour are pretty much finished as a party in Scotland. Especially given how they ignored all that the party traditionally stood for, supporting the working class. There is one Tory MP in Scotland, that number will not increase come May.

The Liberal Democrats destroyed any credibility they have as a party back in 2010 when they joined the Tories in a coalition. Even more so when they went back on the promise that was key to their election campaign of not increasing University tuition fees.

Which is where the problem on UKIP comes in. They are offering themselves as the party who don't want to be ruled by the EU. They are getting a lot of support, and irritatingly a lot of air time, despite not having a single elected MP. Many people will buy into this and they will unfortunately win seats come May. With neither Labour nor the Tories having enough for a majority, UKIP will probably be the ones who form a coalition with the Tories. Which is a very worrying thought.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby jsherwood » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:41 am

Reidy wrote:For the way that they got into bed with the Tories, Labour are pretty much finished as a party in Scotland. Especially given how they ignored all that the party traditionally stood for, supporting the working class. There is one Tory MP in Scotland, that number will not increase come May.

The Liberal Democrats destroyed any credibility they have as a party back in 2010 when they joined the Tories in a coalition. Even more so when they went back on the promise that was key to their election campaign of not increasing University tuition fees.

Which is where the problem on UKIP comes in. They are offering themselves as the party who don't want to be ruled by the EU. They are getting a lot of support, and irritatingly a lot of air time, despite not having a single elected MP. Many people will buy into this and they will unfortunately win seats come May. With neither Labour nor the Tories having enough for a majority, UKIP will probably be the ones who form a coalition with the Tories. Which is a very worrying thought.


I don't see UKIP win many seats.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Reidy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:33 am

I would like to think common sense would prevail, but I fear that the amount of newspaper and TV coverage that they get may result in many voting for them. Additionally, they may get the vote from traditional Tories.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Chris12 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:07 pm

Congrats to the Uk and those Scots that wanted to remain in it. Sorry for the ones that wanted independence.

Part of me thinks the Scots should get to leave and I wish them all the best but....Its really not the best of time to weaken yourself is it? The world is becoming a more dangerous place and western, certainly European dominance isn't self evident anymore. UK is pretty much in decline but its still very relevant on the world stage so it getting in a political crisis in the middle of the most threatening summer Europe has had in years isn't going to be pretty.

A Scottish yes could easily be hijacked by those with less noble intentions as well. Putin's monkey's could go ''Why Scotland and not us?'' and destabilize things even further and Isis can point at one of the chiefest representatives of western civilization and get a confidence boost as what they may see as it breaking down. They would be wrong but still....

So...nice idea, terrible timing.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Scottstud94 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:52 pm

Even if Scotland went alone, they're in no geographical danger. Northern Ireland, different story.

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby Kyle » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:17 pm

This just seemed appropriate for the conversation.

Image

Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Postby staythirstymyfriends » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:00 pm

Kyle, that is one of the best thought-out posts I've seen, and it didn't take many words. I applaud you.

Scotland faced a tough decision. It was "freedom", which meant total self-determination, or "stay put", which meant having England basically decide a lot of stuff for them. However, Scotland and England aren't hostile today. Different priorities, maybe, but not enemies. And Scotland is going to get concessions out of all this. They'll be pretty autonomous, I submit. If they broke off, they'd lose English business, a strong military presence, and the presence of the UK military.

Tough one all around. Here's hoping the voters got it right for themselves...
Is it any different to be tied up vs being tied down? One of the great things about English, its flexibility :p