Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:43 pm

Writing is an acquired talent or skill. Usually, the more of it you do, the better you become. To that end, here are some tips for writers that might be of help to our budding litterarii: (lit-ter air'-e-i)

1. Don't use no double negatives.

2. Make each pronoun agree with their antecedent.

3. Join clauses correctly, like a conjunction should.

4. About them sentence fragments.

5. When dangling, watch your participles.

6. Verbs has to agree with their subjects.

7. Just between you and I, case is important.

8. Don't write run-on sentences they are hard to read.

9. Don't use commas, which aren't necessary.

10. Its important to use apostrophe's correctly.

11. Try not to ever split infinitives.

12. Correct speling is essenshul.

13. Proofread your work to see if any words out.

14. A preposition is a poor word to end a sentence with.

15. Don't be redundundant.

Hope this helps. :)

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby xtc » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:53 am

Nice to see the style book back.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:34 am

And now for today's trick question:

"The data is being transmitted."

"The data are being transmitted."

Which sentence is correct, and why?

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby xtc » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:55 am

OK. Why can't I see the catch? The word "data" is a plural. No!, I'm not falling for that!
"Datum" is the singular form.

How about this one?
Either the government are a load of ratbags or the government is a load of scum-bags?
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:52 pm

You are, of course, correct. But there are many people out there who will pick "The data is being transmitted."

As to your question, in American English, "Government" is a collective noun, regarded as singular. "Congress" or "Parliament" are also collective nouns. But, if you change it around to "Members of the government . . . . ." then "Members," which is plural, becomes the subject, while "government" becomes a prepositional object, and has no effect on the verb. The subject and verb have to agree. Prepositional objects, singular or plural, are immaterial.

There are some differences between American English and UK English. The addition of "u" in words like "color (colour)," and "favor (favour)" is one spelling example. Winston Churchill said it best: "America and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language."

I know my language. I spent uncounted years in the public relations business. I had to write press releases for a very picky boss, who knew more about the language than I did. If there was even the slightest grammatical error, or any spelling error, I could expect an ass-chewing of epic proportions.

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby xtc » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:04 pm

Is that the same as an arse-kicking?

I do agree with you but the number of people to whom "The Government is considering . . ." sounds incorrrect now is making me feel even older than I am!

. . . and as for The Metropolitan Police . . .
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 pm

>>>Is that the same as an arse-kicking?<<<

Not quite; at least not in the USA. An ass (or arse) chewing is verbal. The boss just yells unpleasant things about you, your work, and your ancestry. An ass (or arse) kicking is physical, as in "Johnny really gave Billy an ass kicking in their MMA match."

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby trammel » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:23 pm

Great thread!

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Diogones » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:54 am

Let's keep this thread rolling! "Tastes good like a Marlboro should?" or "Tastes good as a Marlboro should?" Believe it or not, I think that Marlboro actually chose the incorrect one for their slogan.

I also just a couple of quick questions. This a grammatical error I make all the time, is it, "I should have ran out of the room?" or "I should have run out of the room?" I can never keep that one straight.

And the other one: when do I use drank and drunk? I know drunk is a past participle, but nobody I talk to ever uses it, sadly enough. It's always dranken, or some other made up word. I think it's because nobody likes the sometimes negative connotation that "drunk" carries with it.

And as a final note, one of the most abused words I always here is "de-thawed." That doesn't even make sense, especially when it is used in a sentence like this, "I am taking the chicken out of the freezer so it can de-thaw." Drop the "de" please. If you say de-thaw, I think what you really mean is "freeze," since de-thaw would sort of mean un-thaw, so freeze would be the opposite of that.
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - Issac Asimov, from his novel 'Foundation.'

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby xtc » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:47 am

Diogones wrote:Let's keep this thread rolling! "Tastes good like a Marlboro should?" or "Tastes good as a Marlboro should?" Believe it or not, I think that Marlboro actually chose the incorrect one for their slogan.

I also just a couple of quick questions. This a grammatical error I make all the time, is it, "I should have ran out of the room?" or "I should have run out of the room?" I can never keep that one straight.

And the other one: when do I use drank and drunk? I know drunk is a past participle, but nobody I talk to ever uses it, sadly enough. It's always dranken, or some other made up word. I think it's because nobody likes the sometimes negative connotation that "drunk" carries with it.

And as a final note, one of the most abused words I always here is "de-thawed." That doesn't even make sense, especially when it is used in a sentence like this, "I am taking the chicken out of the freezer so it can de-thaw." Drop the "de" please. If you say de-thaw, I think what you really mean is "freeze," since de-thaw would sort of mean un-thaw, so freeze would be the opposite of that.


I don't know which slogan Marlbro used.
I should have run out of the room. As in, "I should have drawn the curtains tight"; not, "I should have drew the curtains tight".
"I had drunk a lot of water yesterday" or "I drank a lot of water yeterday" are both correct. Beware American "English", the ancient construction "-en" seems to be far more prevalent than it is in modern English. (e.g. gotten)
I have never heard of the word, "de-thawed".

Try this:
None of the people who work here are American.
None of the people who work here is American.
Last edited by xtc on Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Karina82 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:56 pm

well, xtc, since you spelled people wrong in the first one, then neither are correct.
Karina
I'm sub :)
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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby xtc » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:16 pm

Boom! Boom!
I've put that right. NOW what's the answer?
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Gadgetman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:37 pm

None of the people who work here are American.

People is plural, talking about all of the people in the building. "Is" refers to a singular third person, He is green, or She is smart. "Are" refers to a group of people, still in the third person. They are green, They are smart, or in this case, None of the people who work here are American.

This one is fun, and needs a little background...

The ship! She was beautiful!
The ship! It was beautiful!
The path to power is a path of turns within turns... or a pair of handcuffs.
Three people can keep a secret, if two of them are gagged.

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:24 pm

>>>"Tastes good like a Marlboro should?" or "Tastes good as a Marlboro should?" Believe it or not, I think that Marlboro actually chose the incorrect one for their slogan.<<<

Actually that was Winston, as in "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should." To be grammatically correct, "like" should be replaced with "as."

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:35 pm

For those that speak English as a second language, don't feel too bad about grammatical or spelling screw ups, or the misuse of homonyms. It has been documented that English is the second most difficult language to master for those that do not speak and write it as their first language. (The first is Mandarin Chinese.)

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:06 pm

Gadgetman wrote:None of the people who work here are American.

People is plural, talking about all of the people in the building. "Is" refers to a singular third person, He is green, or She is smart. "Are" refers to a group of people, still in the third person. They are green, They are smart, or in this case, None of the people who work here are American.

This one is fun, and needs a little background...

The ship! She was beautiful!
The ship! It was beautiful!


Aaahh, but "people" is not the subject of the sentence. "None" is the subject. "People" is the object of the preposition "of." "None" is a collective noun, which has its roots in "no one," often mistakenly regarded as plural, but is, in fact, singular, and thus, takes a singular verb to be absolutely grammatically correct. The test, is to return to the root words. "No one is coming." or "No one are coming."

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby xtc » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:04 am

Correct! I always like that one.
Now, could we discuss the comma after "test"?

Whew! I'm rapidly comming away from the grammarian arguments as long as the punctuation aids clarity.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Kyle » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:51 pm

Ain't ain't a word and we ain't going to use it anymore.

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Kyle » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:51 pm

drawscore wrote:For those that speak English as a second language, don't feel too bad about grammatical or spelling screw ups, or the misuse of homonyms. It has been documented that English is the second most difficult language to master for those that do not speak and write it as their first language. (The first is Mandarin Chinese.)

Drawscore


A lot of people who do speak English as their native language don't know those things you listed.

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Karina82 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:32 pm

drawscore wrote:For those that speak English as a second language, don't feel too bad about grammatical or spelling screw ups, or the misuse of homonyms. It has been documented that English is the second most difficult language to master for those that do not speak and write it as their first language. (The first is Mandarin Chinese.)

Drawscore

personally, I think that Cantonese Chinese is harder than Mandarin because of the following:
1) you don't write what you say
2) there are 9 different tones (Mandarin has 5)
3) Tones are similar to others
4) tones are harder to pronounce correctly (especially for English/ similar language speakers)
Last edited by Karina82 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I'm sub :)
I am not very active on this site anymore :(

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:52 pm

>>>Now, could we discuss the comma after "test"?<<<

It sets off a subordinate clause. However, with or without the comma, the sentence is acceptable.

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:00 pm

>>>Ain't ain't a word and we ain't going to use it anymore.<<<

No. "Ain't" ain't a word, and we ain't going to use it no more." :P

Actually, in practice, "ain't" is a contraction for "is not," "am not," and "are not." It is largely regarded as improper English, but since it is included on many dictionaries, it is, in fact, a part of the English language.

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:14 pm

>>>A lot of people who do speak English as their native language don't know those things you listed. <<<

This is true. But English is still a screwy language. Witness the following:

THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
--------------------

We'll start with a box, and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox became oxen, not oxes.
One fowl is a goose, and two are called geese,
But the plural of moose should never be meese.

You may find a lone mouse, or a nest full of mice,
Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.
If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?

If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
and give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
If one is a tooth, and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three may be those,
yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
and the plural of cat is cats, and not cose.

We speak of a brother, and also of brethern,
but though we say mother, we never say metheren.
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his, and him,
but imagine the feminine she, shis, and shim.

Let's face it, English is a screwy language. There is
no egg in eggplant; nor is there ham in hamburger;
neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins
were not invented in England.

But if we explore the paradoxes (paradoxen??), we find
that quicksand can work slowly, boxing and wrestling
rings are square, and a guinea pig is neither from
Guinea, nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers
write, but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce,
and hammers don't ham?

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a
humanitarian eat?

If dad is pop, how come mom isn't mop?

In what other language do people recite at a play, and
play at a recital? Ship by truck, and send cargo by
ship? Have noses that run, and feet that smell?
Drive on a parkway, and park in a driveway? How can a
slim chance and a fat chance be the same, when a wise
man and a wiseguy are opposites?

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:44 pm

>>>personally, I think that Cantonese Chinese is harder than Mandaring because of the following:
1) you don't write what you say
2) there are 9 different tones (Mandarin has 5)
3) Tones are similar to others
4) tones are harder to pronounce correctly (especially for English/ similar language speakers)<<<

Your points are well taken.

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby xtc » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:38 am

I agree. Learning to write the little bit of Mandarin I know has been facinating (characters, not pin ying). It really opens one's eyes to the way the speakers think when having to construct ideograms for, say, peace and good.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Tips for Writers

Postby PowerRanger » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:57 am

As a mandarin speaker myself, I have to admit that Mandarin is easier than Cantonese as Mandarin is Simplified Chinese. And those characters are not commonly used in Mainland amy more. And I think I'll keep following this thread as tips for my writing..

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Gadgetman » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:47 pm

Drawscore, Nice poem! I love it. When I read it I think how much of a fucked up country we live in, becasue there is braile lettering on a drive up ATM, you have to walk to the back of a pharmacy to buy drugs, but you can buy cigarettes in the front.
The path to power is a path of turns within turns... or a pair of handcuffs.
Three people can keep a secret, if two of them are gagged.

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:41 pm

>>>". . . . . I think how much of a fucked up country we live in, because there is Braille lettering on a drive up ATM, you have to walk to the back of a pharmacy to buy drugs, but you can buy cigarettes in the front."<<<

I disagree. It's not the country that's screwed up. It's the nanny mentality in so many of the idiot politicians we elect. The old adage that if a politician takes from Peter to give to Paul, he can count on the unwavering support of Paul in the next election, is a foregone conclusion. Personally, I think "The Bill of No Rights" and the suggested 28th Amendment should be enacted. Unfortunately, it will never happen.

The suggested 28th Amendment: "Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States "

The "Bill of No Rights:"

"We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid any more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior and secure the blessings of debt free liberty to ourselves and our great great-great grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other "progressive" bedwetters.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: That a whole lot of people were confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim that they require a Bill of No Rights.

ARTICLE I -- You have no right to a new car, big screen TV or any form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II -- You have no right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means the freedom for everyone, not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots and probably always will be. Deal with it.

ARTICLE III -- You have no right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful. Do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy for the rest of your lives.

ARTICLE IV -- You have no right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generations of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.

ARTICLE V -- You have no right to free health care. That would be nice but, from the looks of government public housing, we're just not interested in government run health care.

ARTICLE VI -- You have no right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair, or get thrown into some dark hole where sunlight needs to be pumped in, for an indeterminate period of time, including your life.

ARTICLE VII -- You have no right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen TV or a life of leisure.

ARTICLE VIII -- You have no right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight, if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.

ARTICLE IX -- You have no right to a job. All of us sure want all of you to have one, and will gladly help you in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.

ARTICLE X -- You have no right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to pursue happiness -- which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by brain dead politicians who were confused by the Bill of Rights."

Drawscore

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby Kyle » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:51 pm

drawscore wrote:>>>Ain't ain't a word and we ain't going to use it anymore.<<<

No. "Ain't" ain't a word, and we ain't going to use it no more." :P

Actually, in practice, "ain't" is a contraction for "is not," "am not," and "are not." It is largely regarded as improper English, but since it is included on many dictionaries, it is, in fact, a part of the English language.

Drawscore


I don't think this argument would work in English class.

Re: Tips for Writers

Postby drawscore » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:52 pm

>>>I don't think this argument would work in English class.<<<

You never know until you try.

Still, I stand by my earlier comment. "Ain't" is a colloquialism; an improper contraction for "is not," "am not," and "are not." Its use is generally frowned upon by English scholars, but nonetheless, it is used in spoken English, and is contained within numerous dictionaries. Therefore, improper or not, it still is a part of the language.

Drawscore