English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Thu May 10, 2012 12:27 pm

A lot of people who do speak English as their native language don't know those things you listed.

This is true. But English is still a screwy language. Witness the following:

We'll start with a box, and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox became oxen, not oxes.
One fowl is a goose, and two are called geese,
But the plural of moose should never be meese.

You may find a lone mouse, or a nest full of mice,
Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.
If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?

If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
And give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
If one is a tooth, and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three may be those,
Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
And the plural of cat is cats, and not cose.

We speak of a brother, and also of brethern,
But though we say mother, we never say metheren.
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his, and him,
But imagine the feminine she, shis, and shim.

Let's face it, English is a screwy language. There is no egg in eggplant; nor is there ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins are not originally from England.

But if we explore the paradoxes (paradoxen??), we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing and wrestling rings are square, and a guinea pig is neither from
Guinea, nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write, but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce, and hammers don't ham?

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

If tin whistles are made of tin, what do they make foghorns out of?

If dad is pop, how come mom isn't mop?

In what other language do people recite at a play, and play at a recital? Ship by truck, and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run, and feet that smell? Drive on a parkway, and park in a driveway? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, when a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

Drawscore

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby TUfriend » Thu May 10, 2012 1:09 pm

"I" before "E" except after "C." Weird.

Also, arithmetic and arithmetic. Spelled the same, pronounced differently, one's a noun, the other's an adjective. Like read and read.
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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby skybird137 » Thu May 10, 2012 1:16 pm

Actually it's:

"I before E except after C"

"When E is pronounced EE" or "Unless E is pronounced A"

So many people have no idea of the second part concepts.
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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby xtc » Thu May 10, 2012 2:11 pm

I agree with most of m' learned friend, Drawscore's, (admittedly well known) remarks but several of the later ones do not apply to English, merely to American.
For a disambiguation (If it's good enough for Wikipedia . . .) see previous discussions.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby TUfriend » Thu May 10, 2012 5:38 pm

skybird137 wrote:Actually it's:

"I before E except after C"

"When E is pronounced EE" or "Unless E is pronounced A"

So many people have no idea of the second part concepts.


Weird still makes the EE sound.
Heil Toddman, the Wonderful Wizard of Odd
I'm a nerd with a dangerous side.

See my most recent TRUE story, "SPL Initiation", here.

Read my most recent FICTIONAL story, "The Birth of a Whovian", here

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby sarobah » Thu May 10, 2012 5:40 pm

My favourite English language oddity is GHOTI.
For those unaware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Thu May 10, 2012 10:53 pm

One area where rules do not apply, is in names. You can spell your name Xhzyp, and pronounce it "Smith," and it would be right.

Drawscore
Last edited by drawscore on Thu May 10, 2012 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Thu May 10, 2012 11:00 pm

"I" before "E," except after "C,"
or when sounded like "A," as in "neighbor" and "weigh.

That doesn't explain "weird." But "leisure" is a French word, and English rules don't apply.

Drawscore

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby xtc » Fri May 11, 2012 12:44 am

sarobah wrote:My favourite English language oddity is GHOTI.
For those unaware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti


Holy fish, Batgirl! (But you're probably not old enough to remember.)
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby sarobah » Fri May 11, 2012 3:05 am

“Holy strawberries, Batman! We’re in a jam.”
With Saturday morning television, you’re never too young.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby random » Fri May 11, 2012 3:22 am

Drawscore I understand where your coming from but I disagree. I am a native speaker of english. (Just so you know) English is just as bad as the other languages, as in german there are 3 words that mean 'the'. However you need to add the right the word on the right sentence or it makes no sense. I bet in your language someone could find flaws in your language that you think is fine as that is your primary language. So I understand how your wondering why english says this and not that. But I bet you will find your language is no better.
Life is too short to have regrets.
I may have a strong opinion at times but I respect yours and hope you do the same.
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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby random » Fri May 11, 2012 3:34 am

random wrote:Drawscore I understand where your coming from but I disagree. I am a native speaker of english. (Just so you know) English is just as bad as the other languages, as in german there are 3 words that mean 'the'. However you need to add the right the word on the right sentence or it makes no sense. I bet in your language someone could find flaws in your language that you think is fine as that is your primary language. So I understand how your wondering why english says this and not that. But I bet you will find your language is no better.


Just in case your wondering:
Die, Der, Das means "the"

Der Hund (The Dog) CORRECT
Das Hund INCORRECT even though it seems it's correct
Die Hund INCORRECT even though it seems it's correct

Der Katze (The Cat) INCORRECT
Das Katze INCORRECT
Die Katze CORRECT

Der Computer INCORRECT
Das Computer CORRECT
Die Computer INCORRECT
Life is too short to have regrets.
I may have a strong opinion at times but I respect yours and hope you do the same.
Check out my first story ./viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15159 Comments and suggestions welcome!

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby Games_Bond » Fri May 11, 2012 9:21 am

Can I start with "i before e except after c"
This rule no longer exists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02O9HVEPZsM
Done, next...

random is right as well, you can pick flaws in any language.
I am Scottish, so I will pick on place names in my own country.
How many of these can you properly (phonetically) pronounce?
Btw Google would of course help you, so don't cheat, that's no fun :)

1. Anstruther
2. Athelstaneford
3. Auchtermuchty
4. Dalziel
5. Finzean
6. Friockheim
7. Garioch
8. Hawick
9. Kirkcudbright
10. Strichen

Drawscore, there probably are explicit reasons for everything in your list (though I can't give them all) - maybe I should change my name to Zxyqrelfptrsg Tnjuikpio - pronounced John Smith, or come to think of it, don't even change the pronunciation, just the spelling - it would serve no purpose other than to help me win at scrabble :wink:
Having said that, there are sixteen different spellings of my first name and... I've just realised that in almost 25 years on this earth I've never bothered to count how many different spellings of my Surname there are. But I know I can't count them on two hands! :lol:

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Fri May 11, 2012 1:58 pm

random wrote:Drawscore I understand where your coming from but I disagree. I am a native speaker of english. (Just so you know) English is just as bad as the other languages, as in german there are 3 words that mean 'the'. However you need to add the right the word on the right sentence or it makes no sense. I bet in your language someone could find flaws in your language that you think is fine as that is your primary language. So I understand how your wondering why english says this and not that. But I bet you will find your language is no better.



Ahh, but you assume I am not a native speaker of English. In truth, I am, and I have been told that my command of the language is more than just "average." Without going to a dictionary or looking it up on the internet, how many can define "spoonerism," and the word's origin? How many know the difference between "flak" and "flack?" How many Americans know what a bumbershoot is?

I worked for many years in the public relations field, and I had to know the language. The standing joke about public relations people, is that they can tell you to "go to hell," and do it in such a way, that you can't wait to get home and pack for the trip.

Anyone can be crude and vulgar, and say someone has his head up his ass. But if you say that he suffers from cranial-rectal inversion, the reaction is often "Huh? What? Did he say what I think he said?"

English has its quirks, but it is a "fun language." And, in many ways, it's funny, too.

Drawscore

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby random » Fri May 11, 2012 7:06 pm

Sorry Drawscore I did assume that you weren't. I fully apologize for that. Yer I agree with what you said. I just got the impression that you believed it was only english that was weird. For that I am sorry.
Life is too short to have regrets.
I may have a strong opinion at times but I respect yours and hope you do the same.
Check out my first story ./viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15159 Comments and suggestions welcome!

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby Jay Candice » Fri May 11, 2012 8:12 pm

Haha, english is a crazy language, just saying. A bunch of rules make no sense.
In the end, it matters not how many breaths you took, but how many took your breath away.
-shing xiong

We are not retreating, we are advancing in another direction
-General Douglas MacArthur

Fall down seven times, stand up eight
-Japanese Proverb

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby Kyle » Fri May 11, 2012 9:11 pm

It's not the rules that make English a hard language, it's that there are so many exceptions to the rules. English was heavily influenced by both early Germanic languages and Latin to a lesser but still significant extent (from Middle English on) is part of the problem.

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby Jay Candice » Fri May 11, 2012 10:03 pm

Yeah, all the blending of languages. Makes things confusing.
In the end, it matters not how many breaths you took, but how many took your breath away.
-shing xiong

We are not retreating, we are advancing in another direction
-General Douglas MacArthur

Fall down seven times, stand up eight
-Japanese Proverb

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Sat May 12, 2012 3:55 am

>>> . . .how many can define "spoonerism," and the word's origin?<<<

OK, for those that are straining their brains, a "spoonerism" is an interchange of sounds, sometimes deliberate, but most of the time, unintentional. "Rupert's Beer" comes out "Boopert's Rear." Or "He's a pretty fart smeller" instead of "He's a pretty smart fella." It is named after the Reverend William Archibald Spooner (1844–1930), who was notoriously prone to this tendency. It's a relatively new word in our language, less than 150 years old.

Drawscore

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby tiedupandhelplessgal » Sat May 12, 2012 5:25 am

Haha this is all too funny
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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby TUfriend » Sat May 12, 2012 6:08 am

random wrote:
random wrote:Drawscore I understand where your coming from but I disagree. I am a native speaker of english. (Just so you know) English is just as bad as the other languages, as in german there are 3 words that mean 'the'. However you need to add the right the word on the right sentence or it makes no sense. I bet in your language someone could find flaws in your language that you think is fine as that is your primary language. So I understand how your wondering why english says this and not that. But I bet you will find your language is no better.


Just in case your wondering:
Die, Der, Das means "the"

Der Hund (The Dog) CORRECT
Das Hund INCORRECT even though it seems it's correct
Die Hund INCORRECT even though it seems it's correct

Der Katze (The Cat) INCORRECT
Das Katze INCORRECT
Die Katze CORRECT

Der Computer INCORRECT
Das Computer CORRECT
Die Computer INCORRECT


In Italian, there are 6, il, lo, la, i, gli, le.

Il collo
gli zaino
la pallone
i genitori
gli studenti
le mele

But it's not that hard to figure out. Il is for masculine words(end in o) la is for feminine words(end in a) lo is for masculine words that start with s and a consonant or z. And then the plurals.
Heil Toddman, the Wonderful Wizard of Odd
I'm a nerd with a dangerous side.

See my most recent TRUE story, "SPL Initiation", here.

Read my most recent FICTIONAL story, "The Birth of a Whovian", here

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Sat May 12, 2012 7:08 am

Italy is a pretty country. I got to Venice, but never made it to Rome.

Drawscore

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby xtc » Sat May 12, 2012 11:19 am

A reported spoonerism from the Rev. himself: he supposedly proposeda toast to the queer old dean.
My favorite recently broadcast one was by James Naughty on the Today program when Culture Secretary, Andrew Hunt was in trouble. I leave it to to your imagination.
Last edited by xtc on Sun May 20, 2012 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby sarobah » Sat May 12, 2012 5:59 pm

drawscore wrote:Italy is a pretty country. I got to Venice, but never made it to Rome.

Totally off-topic, but...
You must get to Rome.
It’s is the one place I have visited that exceeded both my expectations and my dreams.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Sat May 12, 2012 6:06 pm

>>>How many know the difference between "flak" and "flack?" How many Americans know what a bumbershoot is?<<<

For the rest of it, "flak" is shrapnel from an exploding shell in the air. Such shells were fired by anti-aircraft guns. It evolved to mean "trouble" or "problems," as in "he's going to catch a lot of flak from the boss over that accounting error."

A "flack" is an inept practitioner of public relations, usually a spokesman for a public figure. Saddam Hussein's spokesman, dubbed "Baghdad Bob" by the media, would be considered a "flack."

A 'bumbershoot" is an umbrella.

Drawscore

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat May 19, 2012 9:30 pm

sarobah wrote:
drawscore wrote:Italy is a pretty country. I got to Venice, but never made it to Rome.

Totally off-topic, but...
You must get to Rome.
It’s is the one place I have visited that exceeded both my expectations and my dreams.

Rome was okay, but I liked London better. The countryside around Naples was beautiful though; I'd love to go *there* again!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby drawscore » Sun May 20, 2012 7:22 am

Next year, the chance to visit Naples is coming up. If I can arrange a couple of extra days, I just may try and get to Rome.

Drawscore

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun May 20, 2012 8:40 am

If you have any interest in archeology, or simply want to see some beautiful countryside, check out the ruins of Pompeii near Naples. But the trip between Naples and Rome is beautiful too, especially from the heights overlooking Naples.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby Tailsy » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:08 pm

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Re: English is a Screwed Up Language

Postby xtc » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:56 am

Thanks for posting. I'd forgottem this fine old chestnut.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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