modern music

Postby girl4boysub » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:47 am

I was just recently looking at the music my nephew listens to and i cannot believe that such trash is so much liked by teenagers. I am talking about ,,Eminem,, Marilyn Manson,, one is a white man who thinks he is afro american and the other is a devil worshiper who encourages kids to do as they please,... 3o years ago both of these men would have been in mental asylums yet for some reason today these are seen as music greats....i say if you have children please keep them away from music like these two mentally ill people as they will encourage young people to rebel,rape and kill

Re: modern music

Postby tiedup24 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:20 am

I haven't listen to Marilyn Manson so I can't speak for him but Eminem? Thinks himself as an African American? Why? Because he makes hip hop? Promotes rape and killing? Eminem? "The real slim shady" Eminem?!

You're trolling right?

Re: modern music

Postby xtc » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:01 am

Just because I (or you) don't approve of or enjoy a form of music does NOT automatically mean it is being made by the mentally ill!

I don't enjoy rap and I do not approve of incitement to behave in what I consider to be an immoral manner but, in my opinion, anyone who can consider Mathers' "Bonny and Clyde" anything but a masterly piece of writing is letting their dislike of the form cloud their critical faculties. Tori Amos has made a brilliant recording of it. OK that's a 60+ year old writing but I believe that the original writer would also dismiss the music of Harrison Birtwhistle, John Cage and Karlheinz Stockhausen, if he had ever bothered to listen to it, as "trash" as well.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: modern music

Postby GoneGoneGone » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:53 am

I agree wholeheartedly with what xtc said.

But...oh dear. Most artists' influence isn't as strong as you suggest, neither are most fans that suggestible and indiscriminate, outside of a minority of obsessed fans.

Also, having listened to both the artists mentioned (without really being a huge fan of either) and a whole other range of rock, metal and rock over the years I've yet to kill or rape anyone, as are many of my friends and millions of other people worldwide.

Re: modern music

Postby girl4boysub » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:01 pm

The two killers at Colombine were listening to Manson for weeks before their rampage Eminem is an artist who appeals to the modern ''gang culture'' he is a sick individual that has adopted afro american culture in spite of his white heritage.....he is a victim of modern society 40 years ago he would have become a proud man happy with his origin however today he ''raps'' about bad stuff. ...In Russia these two people would be sectioned to the asylum where they belong however in the west we allow these two degenartes to influence young minds

Re: modern music

Postby Scottstud94 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:08 pm

girl4boysub wrote:The two killers at Colombine were listening to Manson for weeks before their rampage Eminem is an artist who appeals to the modern ''gang culture'' he is a sick individual that has adopted afro american culture in spite of his white heritage.....he is a victim of modern society 40 years ago he would have become a proud man happy with his origin however today he ''raps'' about bad stuff. ...In Russia these two people would be sectioned to the asylum where they belong however in the west we allow these two degenartes to influence young minds


Why are you so obsessed with murderers and school shooters? I strongly agree with XTC

Re: modern music

Postby girl4boysub » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:25 pm

Scottstud94 wrote:
girl4boysub wrote:The two killers at Colombine were listening to Manson for weeks before their rampage Eminem is an artist who appeals to the modern ''gang culture'' he is a sick individual that has adopted afro american culture in spite of his white heritage.....he is a victim of modern society 40 years ago he would have become a proud man happy with his origin however today he ''raps'' about bad stuff. ...In Russia these two people would be sectioned to the asylum where they belong however in the west we allow these two degenartes to influence young minds


Why are you so obsessed with murderers and school shooters? I strongly agree with XTC

Why are you so obsessed with me? is your camera broken?

Re: modern music

Postby Tieup1 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:45 pm

There are so many different types of music about now, trends seem to change very quickly.

Everybody has a different taste in music, and should be free to listen to what they like.

To my knowledge, music of whatever type, has not made someone want to be a mass murderer.

If you don't like it, don't listen to it.

Re: modern music

Postby putasockinit2 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:29 pm

don't agree with your views tbh. I grew up with Eminem, 50 cent etc and I haven't turned out to be some murdering mad man. They are all artists I listen to quite regularly also. In fact, im vegetarian, so don't even kill animals. To base your view on everyone who listens to rap style music will be rapists/murderers is a bit wrong. But I still fully respect your personal opinion
'Too many friends and not enough true friends'
The Kanye of tugs ;) :lol:
Stuck between wanting to quit and wanting to stay...

Re: modern music

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:00 pm

Once again, Girl4boysub seems to be at the center of a controversy. I sense a trend.
My own two cents worth: I dont' like some modern groups either. I think some are outright trash. I wonder why anyone would want to listen to them... let alone buy them.
But that's just my opinion. Calling groups i don't like devil worshippers or insane seems a tad strong; reminds me of those idiots who make those Godawful Chick Publications religious tracts (which, among other things, proclaim that Bewitched and Harry Potter foster Satanism, the Catholic Church is the false religion in the great Tribulation; Dungeons and Dragons and Rock and Roll involve devil worship, demons haunt every copy of every rock song ever made, every vampires and werewolves are real, ad infinitum ad nauseum).
Girl4boysub is entitled to her opinion. I could wish she(?) was a little more tactful about expressing those opinions. Maybe then every post she starts wouldn't get reported.
Personally I'm not touching this one... yet... other than to chime in here. So please people (including you too Girl4boysub), be civil. Me, I'm a laissez-faire type of guy. But some of the other mods aren't, and neither is Zanev. If Zanev gets riled, posts disappear and people get banned. So all of you please keep it civil. And Girl4boysub... learn a little tact, will you please?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: modern music

Postby GoneGoneGone » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:32 pm

Jason - well said, and I respect your opinions =)

girl4boysub - you don't seem to have much of an argument, rather just ad hominem attacks ('satanic', 'mentally ill', 'sick individual') and the suggestion that they should be locked up for being essentially 'shock artists' is baffling. I'm glad that there has been progression from imprisoning people you don't personally agree and declaring them mentally ill

Re: modern music

Postby ProfessorRemnant » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:43 am

Eminem and Manson are old news, amigo. Those two were out for shock factor when I was a kid all through the 90's. Now I'm near 30, and I'm looking back at them, you know...Eminem turned himself into a somewhat passable rap artist before he retired to run a label, and Manson, to be honest has a pretty decent voice, but I'm not much for his material. And that's fair enough.

But c'mon it's been almost or more than 20 years since those two hit the scene and you're complaining about it now, TC? That'd be like someone just now going how "Sublime is nothing but pot and sex references and your child shouldn't be listening to them" when the band broke up sometime back in the mid or late 90's.

I almost question the TC referring to Eminem and Marylin Manson as "Modern" music. Modern to me is anything within a five year span. Once you pass at least the ten year mark, music then...and I know this is going to annoy some people...Music then becomes old, or classic. That's right. We are coming to a point in our lives where Eminem and Marylin Manson are going to be considered antiquated.

Yeah, I feel old too. Don't worry about it.

Re: modern music

Postby Jason Toddman » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:47 am

ProfessorRemnant wrote: Yeah, I feel old too. Don't worry about it.

How do you think i feel? I was listening to the Beatles when they were still a 'modern' band in your sense of the word!!!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: modern music

Postby ProfessorRemnant » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:27 am

Jason Toddman wrote:
ProfessorRemnant wrote: Yeah, I feel old too. Don't worry about it.

How do you think i feel? I was listening to the Beatles when they were still a 'modern' band in your sense of the word!!!


Just think, in the year 2050, "Hollaback Girl" will be slow dance music at our high school dances while Dubstep plays on the Golden Oldie stations.

Re: modern music

Postby Kyle » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:30 pm

I got the sudden urge to throw up for some reason.

Re: modern music

Postby truly_trussed » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:04 pm

Jason Toddman wrote:
ProfessorRemnant wrote: Yeah, I feel old too. Don't worry about it.

How do you think i feel? I was listening to the Beatles when they were still a 'modern' band in your sense of the word!!!


I think some of the younguns out there might ask "Oh, Paul McCartney was in a group before Wings?"

Re: modern music

Postby Antonius97 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:46 pm

Just because a white man raps doesn't mean he thinks he's black -_-
As for Marylin Manson, you're flat out wrong. I dislike most of his music, but his presentation is meant to do something that doesn't happen much anymore. It's meant to make people think, and ask questions about the things they've been told not to question. Find an interview of him. When you hear him in conversation, you'll realize that he's more sane than most people...
I didn't choose the TUG life, the TUG life chose me.

Re: modern music

Postby putasockinit2 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:12 pm

changing the subject a bit here from the op's post, but I find the music video for John Newman- Love me again, really romantic. Id love that scenario to happen in real life with one of my exes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfihYWRWRTQ

actually it is to do with the thread. This is modern music, but isn't about rapists or murders etc. It's quite popular too
'Too many friends and not enough true friends'
The Kanye of tugs ;) :lol:
Stuck between wanting to quit and wanting to stay...

Re: modern music

Postby truly_trussed » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:41 pm

Friday Morning Quarterback aka FMQB is a U.S. trade magazine serving the music and radio business by predicting what tunes will be the next big hits for radio station program and music directors to add to their playlists. Founder and publisher Kal Rudman has said in interviews that the songs that we're most fond of in our lives came out when we were between the ages of 14 and 22.( I suspect many musicologists concur.) In the U.S.and Canada that includes the High School years (Grades 9 to 12) and the traditional 4 years of College/University. If your parents and grandparents are still around ask if you can check their record collection and see what they liked lo, these many years.

When I was but a lad Beatlemania hit full force (1963 in the U.K. and Europe, in 1964 they conquered the U.S. and the rest of the world). In 1987 I was annoyed at the Beastie Boys first hit (You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Party) I then realized I became my parents. In retrospect turned out they were a satirical put-on group.

Life is short, do enjoy the music of your life, be it traditional radio, satellite radio, or via computer, smartphone or other technology. I hope you can see your favorite acts in concert, be it New Music or the Oldies-but-Goodies circuit. Finally if your anywhere near Cleveland, Ohio, USA try to visit the Rock Hall, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame + Museum on the Lakefront. Happy Listening, T.T.

Re: modern music

Postby sarobah » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:22 pm

Damn kids today with their rock-and-roll and their funny clothes and their… “Hey, you punks, get off my lawn!”
When I was a lass, we listened to the Sex Pistols, the Ramones, Black Sabbath and Slayer. Now that was REAL music.

Re: modern music

Postby Jason Toddman » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:13 pm

truly_trussed wrote:Founder and publisher Kal Rudman has said in interviews that the songs that we're most fond of in our lives came out when we were between the ages of 14 and 22.( I suspect many musicologists concur.) I

That's only partially true of me at best. Although yes i am very fond of the music that came out in the 70's (when I was in that age group), I am equally fond of much music that has come out since. I have found i am especially fond of electronic (techno) music (and always related to it even as a kid), and am still finding new all-instrumental compositions I'd never heard before that i enjoy very much. I detest some modern so-called music (especially Rap, which i find devoid of any talent or imagination) but love other new music just as much as i loved the music i listened to as an adolescent... including scores from various movies and TV shows rather than actual songs.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: modern music

Postby GoneGoneGone » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:37 pm

Jason Toddman wrote:
truly_trussed wrote:Founder and publisher Kal Rudman has said in interviews that the songs that we're most fond of in our lives came out when we were between the ages of 14 and 22.( I suspect many musicologists concur.) I

That's only partially true of me at best. Although yes i am very fond of the music that came out in the 70's (when I was in that age group), I am equally fond of much music that has come out since. I have found i am especially fond of electronic (techno) music (and always related to it even as a kid), and am still finding new all-instrumental compositions I'd never heard before that i enjoy very much. I detest some modern so-called music (especially Rap, which i find devoid of any talent or imagination) but love other new music just as much as i loved the music i listened to as an adolescent... including scores from various movies and TV shows rather than actual songs.


I've always found the 14-22 thing glib too. I do still listen to a fair amount of music from when I was younger, but I'll never stop looking for interesting new music. Maybe me being a musician has something to do with that, but most of my non muso friends are the same, so maybe not.

Out of interest Jason, what do you think of Gil Scott Heron's 'The Revolution WIll Not Be Televised'? It's considered to be proto-rap and imo is lacking in neither talent or imagination. Or maybe I'm cheating as it's not technically rap!

Re: modern music

Postby xtc » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:19 am

It's a good piece but Jazz musicians and poets have made such collaborations for a long time before the late Scott Heron.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: modern music

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:11 am

BinderUK wrote: I've always found the 14-22 thing glib too. I do still listen to a fair amount of music from when I was younger, but I'll never stop looking for interesting new music. Maybe me being a musician has something to do with that, but most of my non muso friends are the same, so maybe not.

I'm no musician either, so I lean toward the 'not' hypothesis. :big:

BinderUK wrote:Out of interest Jason, what do you think of Gil Scott Heron's 'The Revolution WIll Not Be Televised'? It's considered to be proto-rap and imo is lacking in neither talent or imagination. Or maybe I'm cheating as it's not technically rap!

Naw, Revolution is not really the same thing. That song actually makes sense, has a message, and is pleasant to listen to. The (c)rap I'm talking about is the type of junk anyone could put out there; even a no-talent bum like me.
Rap has lyrics that make no particular sense and no real message - unless it's: I'm a no-talent bum making money making this excrement because there are lots of tasteless dodo birds out there who'll buy it.
Moreover, most rap I've heard uses music that was sampled (stolen) from some other hard-working musician's work; usually in an extremely simplistic beat.(I may be mistaken, but the music in Revolution didn't sound sampled to me but was an original composition).
Rap simply appeals to the lowest common denominator and usually lacks intelligence or any verve. That said, I DO know of notable exceptions (don't ask me to name them; I haven't the slightest idea of their names), so a total condemnation of Rap is also kind of glib. But, in general, imo Rap is Crap.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: modern music

Postby truly_trussed » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:35 am

2013 is the 50th anniversary of Beatlemania in the U.K. and 2014 will be the half-century mark in the U.S. When the Fab Four first appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show on February 9, 1964 a record 73 million people saw the show. That's remakable considering the U.S. population at the time was a tad over 180 million. Authorities reported at the time there were no crimes committed by juveniles anywhere in the U.S. during that one hour broadcast.

A lot of people speculated that Beatlemania helped to get the U.S. out of it its deep funk. This was about 10 weeks after the assasination of President Kennedy and the 4 Liverpudlians were very refreshing. It may have been timing although their talent would have probably manifested anyway.

Finally, to show how much that John, Paul, George and Ringo transcended U.S. society in 1964, check the album charts:

The Chipmunks with David Seville released The Chipmunks Sing The Beatles Hits.This was a childrens' record.

The Hollyridge Strings released The Beatles Song Book. This was a symphonic, lush beautiful music orchestra. Very adult oriented and the type of music you'd hear on an elevator or in the waiting room of your dentist.

Both albums charted in the Top 15. I don't think any act again will ever transcend so many generations. T.T.
Last edited by truly_trussed on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: modern music

Postby Jason Toddman » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:56 am

truly_trussed wrote:When the Fab Four first appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show on February 9, 1964 a record 73 million people saw the show.

My family and I among them. There was definitely an unforgettable quality about it.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: modern music

Postby GoneGoneGone » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:05 am

Jason Toddman wrote:I'm no musician either, so I lean toward the 'not' hypothesis. :big:


Bang goes my flimsy theory then! I just know a fair few self proclaimed music fans who gave up caring about new music a long time ago.

Jason Toddman wrote:Naw, Revolution is not really the same thing. That song actually makes sense, has a message, and is pleasant to listen to. The (c)rap I'm talking about is the type of junk anyone could put out there; even a no-talent bum like me.
Rap has lyrics that make no particular sense and no real message - unless it's: I'm a no-talent bum making money making this excrement because there are lots of tasteless dodo birds out there who'll buy it.
Moreover, most rap I've heard uses music that was sampled (stolen) from some other hard-working musician's work; usually in an extremely simplistic beat.(I may be mistaken, but the music in Revolution didn't sound sampled to me but was an original composition).
Rap simply appeals to the lowest common denominator and usually lacks intelligence or any verve. That said, I DO know of notable exceptions (don't ask me to name them; I haven't the slightest idea of their names), so a total condemnation of Rap is also kind of glib. But, in general, imo Rap is Crap.


I agree about mainstream modern rap Jason. It's pretty dire on the whole. The reason I brought up 'The Revolution...' was because it's cited as a big influence by a good number of, imo at least, decent artists, albeit at this stage less well known. I'd say it was a big influence on 'Television, The Drug of the Nation', for example.

Groups like Public Enemy always had something to say, even if I didn't agree with all of it (also very good live by the by...an actual band, not just performing over a backing track) and groups like Run DMC and The Beastie Boys were and still are fun as hell. That's a side of hip-hop that started waning in popularity around the early 90s though when it entered the mainstream and the 'gangsta' variety came to the forefront. There are still good acts around now, they're just less likely to be played on the radio, such as 'The Roots' who blend rap and soul.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. I'm not even the world's biggest hip-hop fan, I just enjoy good quality discussions about music when i can get 'em! And hey, if I can introduce someone to something they haven't heard before, all the better *puts soapbox away and puts ego back in check*
Last edited by GoneGoneGone on Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: modern music

Postby GoneGoneGone » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:35 am

xtc wrote:It's a good piece but Jazz musicians and poets have made such collaborations for a long time before the late Scott Heron.


Sorry xtc, missed your post. Pretty much covered it in my reply to Jason, but the reason I picked that track was because it's cited as a big influence on hip-hop/rap by a number of artists. Well aware that it wasn't the first time this was done; there were beat poets in the 50s and I'd imagine others predating then.

Re: modern music

Postby Nexus » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:52 am

sarobah wrote:When I was a lass, we listened to Black Sabbath and Slayer. Now that was REAL music.


A - f*cking - men!

And the OP is so painfully wrong that, as Kyle said, I feel a bit ill.

Re: modern music

Postby misterg792000 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:50 am

girl4boysub wrote:I was just recently looking at the music my nephew listens to and i cannot believe that such trash is so much liked by teenagers. I am talking about ,,Eminem,, Marilyn Manson,, one is a white man who thinks he is afro american and the other is a devil worshiper who encourages kids to do as they please,... 3o years ago both of these men would have been in mental asylums yet for some reason today these are seen as music greats....i say if you have children please keep them away from music like these two mentally ill people as they will encourage young people to rebel,rape and kill


Thanks for time-travelling from 1998 to give this dire warning. I hope you don't travel too far back when returning and witness the horror that is Alice Cooper and Led Zeppelin.