Ideal Rope Length Question + Discussion about bondage/domination/submission

Postby bondagefreak » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:13 pm

Hey tuggers,
Been pretty busy as of late, with work and all.

I have a tugs session coming in about two weeks (yes, don't worry...I'll tell you guys ALL about it) and am looking for advice/opinions.

I'm pretty darn good at restraining my victims but I don't have much experience in the way of ropes. My preferred tools include duct tape, gorilla tape, zip ties and straps. However, I've recently come into possession of 100 feet/30 meters of parachute cord and would like to hear different views (from tuggers who have experience with rope) on how to divide it up. I've seen different figures on the web, some say 15 feet/approx. 4.5 meters works best...but I'd link to hear what you guys think about it.

So my question is, if you came into possession of 30 meters/100 feet of rope, how would you divide it?
Last edited by bondagefreak on Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby drawscore » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:02 am

Parachute cord is usually synthetic, and 1/8th to 3/16ths of an inch in diameter. The smaller the diameter, the tighter it binds, and thus, the harder it is to get out of. Conversely, the more rope you use, no matter what the diameter, the greater the chance for slack, and slack will allow a better chance of escape.

That being said, tying different parts of the body require different lengths. Six to eight feet is fine for the wrists, but for the ankles, I'd use 12 to 15 feet. Arms and legs, 18-24 feet would be sufficient, and for tying the ankles to the wrists in a hog tie, four to six feet would do.

Drawscore

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby SparkTex » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:34 am

I wouldn't exceed 30' for any lengths. 30' is a good length for a chest harness and 10-15' lengths are good for leg bindings, crotch ropes, etc. I would go with:

30
25
15
15
15

And as you probably know, hemp is where it's at for bondage rope ;)

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby Lake Lover » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:59 pm

A hundred feet sound like a lot of rope, but it is really the minimum to tie a guy up real nice. Of course, the optimal lengths of rope depends upon how you are going to tie your victim: lying on the ground; tied to a chair; hog tied; tied to a post. (Forget about suspension with rope, I never wanted that.) Also, it gets to be a nuisance dragging a long rope round and round and round keeping it snug as you make each turn. I just feel its often more flexible to have two 10ft. lengths than one 20ft. So, here's my suggestion:

14
14
10
10
10
10
8
8
8
8

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby drawscore » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:45 am

After some thought, isn't this something you might want to discuss with your TUG buddy? Find out what he wants or likes, then act accordingly. And what are your thoughts? Are you going to be tied, also?

There are all sorts of ways to be tied. Some prefer a simple wrists and ankles tie. Others like the same thing, but with duct tape wrapped over the rope. And you go on from there

The important thing, is to remember that it IS a game, and games are supposed to be fun for all involved. When the captive is no longer having fun, it ceases to be a game, and becomes abuse.

Drawscore

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby bondagefreak » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:56 am

Very useful pointers here. A big thanks to tapeandrope666, drawscore, TGT88 and Lake Lover for the prompt responses.

drawscore wrote:After some thought, isn't this something you might want to discuss with your TUG buddy? Find out what he wants or likes, then act accordingly. And what are your thoughts? Are you going to be tied, also?

There are all sorts of ways to be tied. Some prefer a simple wrists and ankles tie. Others like the same thing, but with duct tape wrapped over the rope. And you go on from there

The important thing, is to remember that it IS a game, and games are supposed to be fun for all involved. When the captive is no longer having fun, it ceases to be a game, and becomes abuse.

Drawscore



Sigh...Drawscore, I appreciate your comment and know that you mean well. I really do.

I've been here for quite a few years as well. This is about THE most lighthearted place for bondage/TUGs/BDSM talk on the internet.
This is also a very SMALL community, and as much as many on here would not want to admit, there is no way to remove BDSM from TUGs.
Both are deeply intertwined.
Most guys on here who are active on this site AND elsewhere will concur with what I'm about to say.


As much as bondage and domination is and should ALWAYS be about trust and communication, you'd be surprised at the amount of men and women out there who DO NOT want to have ANY say or retain an ounce of control when engaging in domination + tug sessions.

The fact that MANY on here DO NOT understand that, doesn't make it ANY less legitimate.

And I'm not saying that all such relationships or games are healthy. Some of them aren't, but that doesn't mean such games/relationships are all "toxic" and unhealthy. That being said, I understand that educating young minds is important and that the internet is often a poor teacher for these kinds of things. That's why I'm not trying to debate or negate what you wrote. Much of your words ring true.


Everyone on here who I've had dealings with know that I'm a very down-to-earth guy.

However, I only play with THE most submissive guys, so no, I won't ask my bondage "buddy" what he wants and what he prefers.
Our likes and dislikes are very similar and that's good enough for both of us. Everything else is up to me, which is EXACTLY (and I really do mean EXACTLY) the way he wants it.

As much as I enjoy the lighthearted/down-to-earth atmosphere on this tie up games board, there seems to be a lack of respect/acknowledgement for the MANY activists who actually get off/achieve a state of bliss when under complete and total control.
I'm not saying this is for everyone, because it definitely isn't! But turning a blind eye to this aspect of TUGs and BDSM makes no sense whatsoever...even on a forum as lighthearted as this one.

People who know each other and trust each other (notice the red) and who get off on COMPLETE control + dominance or COMPLETE submissiveness, should NOT be treated with less legitimacy than those who engage in light-hearted tugs.
And this isn't a debate. I have great respect for everyone's views, as long as they are morally sane and do not involve the use of violence or serious abuse.
There is definitely a moral line that should not be crossed, but this is not where the line is at.


Debates and arguments here are often caused by ill-spoken lines or simple sentences with lack of relevant explanations.
I've gone out of my way here to word this out as effectively as I can, so as to avoid another flame war (which IMO has become all too common on this board in the past few years).
Still, I expect this will raise some eyebrows and elicit a certain response from members who feel that there is no room for more "intense" experiences on Stories of Tie Up Games. I don't believe I've said anything outrageous or particularly shocking, but in any case, I'm ready to face the music.
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Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby freyjaceleste862 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:59 am

depends what the rope is for
love cooking, panty/knicker gags, nappies, handicapped.

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby Lake Lover » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:10 am

drawscore wrote:After some thought, isn't this something you might want to discuss with your TUG buddy? Find out what he wants or likes, ...

Drawscore


Yup, I agree with that. My buddy says, "Before you gag me, I just want to tell you that I really want to be spreadeagled." So I use a few snug loops to hold his wrists together, then apply a temporary gag. Once I have bail control, I lead him to the bed. He will get what he wants... but the devil is in the details.

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby SparkTex » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:45 am

bondagefreak wrote:Very useful pointers here. A big thanks to tapeandrope666, drawscore, TGT88 and Lake Lover for the prompt responses.

...



I fully agree with your post above. Of course, there are limits that should be respected in bondage, but when it becomes an exchange of "Do you want me to tie your wrists in front, or behind? Is that too tight? How about a gag?". Of course, this is an extreme example, but IMO the whole dynamic of bondage relies on the Dom taking control and having a plan of action. To do otherwise makes the act seem hokey, staged and mechanical.

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby bondagefreak » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:02 am

TGT88 wrote:I fully agree with your post above. Of course, there are limits that should be respected in bondage, but when it becomes an exchange of "Do you want me to tie your wrists in front, or behind? Is that too tight? How about a gag?". Of course, this is an extreme example, but IMO the whole dynamic of bondage relies on the Dom taking control and having a plan of action. To do otherwise makes the act seem hokey, staged and mechanical.


My point exactly.

There are a lot of people here who enjoy both sides of the ropes, so-to-speak, but many of the more docile/submissive fellows here will agree with this. As hard as it may be to understand (and I'm not talking about some childhood tie up game), many submissives draw strength directly from their Tops/Dominants. Either through eye contact, the sound of his/her voice or the warmth of his/her skin.

Discussion is vital before starting anything bondage-related, but people who engage in domination bondage, revel in the power play.
When a session starts, the LAST thing a submissive wants is for the Dom to start asking a lot of questions. The fact is, for many subs, it would be interpreted as a sign that the Dom is insecure, uncertain and unsure about what he is doing (even though he may only be trying to cater to the sub's needs), which ends up being literally disastrous to the safety and serenity a sub feels when under the Dom's full control.

Checking to see whether the bonds are too tight or whether circulation is obstructed is important, but asking questions about preferred bondage positions and gags defeats the purpose of a domination session.

A Dom should always radiate confidence and coolness when dealing with a helpless/soon-to-be helpless sub.
Indecision is the last thing you want your submissive to see.
He/she needs to feel that you know what you're doing and that they have little or no say in the matter beyond what was expressed before the session.
Again, I'm pointing out that these types of games are definitely NOT for everyone, especially on here.


As a footnote, blindfolds and sensory deprivation can be fun, but for many submissives who crave active domination, regular eye contact is of utmost importance.
Doing things calmly and silently while locking your eyes on the sub's every few minutes is a MUCH more effective way of reassuring the sub than asking all sorts of questions. Physical touch is also very important as is the sound of your voice. Subs draw strength and peace from all these things.

At the end of these sessions, it's not unusual for the sub to start crying or shedding some tears. The emotional release is perfectly normal and to be expected and it's always followed by a great sense of joy and peace. Many new Doms (myself included) did not know how to respond to the crying at first. Some subs just need a few minutes to collect themselves while others need to be held, cuddled and spoken to softly. By the time this happens, a Dom should know which option the sub prefers.

Unlike what some might feel, domination-oriented bondage is not a heartless exercise, even if it's somewhat darker and grittier than the vanilla-type bondage that is prevalent on this board.
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Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:07 pm

Bondagefreak - this last post perfectly describes how i felt regarding my TUGs relationship with my cousins growing up. You explained it much better than I ever could. :D
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby derred6 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:14 pm

well said bondagefreak!

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby bondagefreak » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:57 pm

derred6 wrote:well said bondagefreak!


Jason Toddman wrote:Bondagefreak - this last post perfectly describes how i felt regarding my TUGs relationship with my cousins growing up. You explained it much better than I ever could. :D


My posts have certainly not garnered much discussion.
I was expecting at least SOME resistance or mild exchange of ideas, but it appears that's not going to happen.

I'm glad both of you could identify yourselves in some of the things I wrote.

Only a few members have bothered posting their bdsmtest.org results on here, but looking at those who have, it's obvious that a majority of members here don't identify themselves as either Doms or subs. Most are simply "rope bunnies" and "switches" that have both Dominant and submissive traits. Some may prefer to be tied up than to tie, but that doesn't make them submissive. The same as tying your friend up and having fun at his/her expense doesn't make you "Dominant".
What I wrote in my two posts above mostly applies to tuggers who identify themselves are either true Doms or true subs.


Over the past couple years, a number of members from this site have met together for bondage play and have shared pics and details about their various sessions. In all of these sessions, both members took turns tying either other up and playing around with each other...tormenting each other, etc.
Those are the bondage games that most of the members here seem to enjoy, which is normal considering the innocent nature of this site.
So Drawscore AND Lake Lover's posts definitely apply to a larger portion of the membership. I'm fully aware that their words of caution should not be dismissed.
My comments were only intended to point out that a non-negligible portion of the active membership (myself included) play/have played slightly "different" games than what most of the members here are used to.


There's very little talk about Dominance and submission on here. But I do know for a fact that some members have a very dim view of the whole thing (no, I'm not talking about Drawscore), which is why I initially decided to speak up about it. Drawscore's words of caution simply provided me with the perfect opportunity to talk about something that's been on my mind for a long time now.


Hopefully more members will decide to share their own views and elaborate on this subject.

After all, some of the most popular stories on this website deal specifically with aspects of dominance and submission, so it's only logical to assume that there's a general interest in the subject even if it's labeled as somewhat taboo on here.
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Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby Sniffmyfeet » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:45 am

bondagefreak wrote:Over the past couple years, a number of members from this site have met together for bondage play and have shared pics and details about their various sessions. In all of these sessions, both members took turns tying either other up and playing around with each other...tormenting each other, etc.
Those are the bondage games that most of the members here seem to enjoy, which is normal considering the innocent nature of this site.
So Drawscore AND Lake Lover's posts definitely apply to a larger portion of the membership. I'm fully aware that their words of caution should not be dismissed.
My comments were only intended to point out that a non-negligible portion of the active membership (myself included) play/have played slightly "different" games than what most of the members here are used to.


There's very little talk about Dominance and submission on here. But I do know for a fact that some members have a very dim view of the whole thing (no, I'm not talking about Drawscore), which is why I initially decided to speak up about it. Drawscore's words of caution simply provided me with the perfect opportunity to talk about something that's been on my mind for a long time now.


Hopefully more members will decide to share their own views and elaborate on this subject.

After all, some of the most popular stories on this website deal specifically with aspects of dominance and submission, so it's only logical to assume that there's a general interest in the subject even if it's labeled as somewhat taboo on here.


The Dom taking full control of the situation is not a case of abuse, in my opinion, as long as it is what the sub wants and in accordance with what was (at least tacitly) agreed upon beforehand. The Dom doesn't need to negotiate with the sub while they are playing (questions like: "Do you like this gag?", "Hogtie or frogtie?", should not be asked during playtime as they ruin the atmosphere): the safeword/sign that they have agreed upon beforehand should safeguard the sub against abuse. Furthermore, exactly as you wrote, the Dom should check for other signs that indicate the sub is uncomfortable. This means that the sub can be fully sub and the Dom can be fully Dom, instead of the sub telling the Dom what to do and the Dom serving the sub's whims!

I've always had difficulty with the stories of kids playing TUGs with each other, if only for the fact that I'm an adult and that it feels is wrong to read a story about kids while getting sexual satisfaction from the story because of the bondage (sorry, that's not how kids call it) tie up games. That's why I nowadays only read stories about adults.

The struggle between Dom and sub should be real. The Dom should really take control of the sub, i.e. not as part of "just" a game. The sub should really have a desire to serve the Dom, and the Dom should really have a desire to take control of the sub. Where this is lacking, it turns into a performance, into an act. That's why, with some guys, I can only Dom, and with others, I can only sub. There are only a few guys with whom both roles are natural.

In my opinion, this is not only true between complete Doms and subs, but also when switches play with each other. When I (a switch) play with other dudes, it's always the Dom who is in charge and the sub who has to obey the Doms decisions. There is no (or only very little) room for negotiation. When I Dom, I try to push a guy, until he actually wants out. Some may think this is abusive. It's not. The guys I play with actually like it when I push their boundaries a bit, without crossing any of their limits. For example, I recently made a guy sniff his sneakers (something he really liked), but when he had sniffed them for half an hour, he begged me to stop, which I didn't until he had sniffed them for at least ten more minutes. That's part of the play, it is a huge turn-on for the sub to get told by the Master to continue.

Only afterwards will I ask how the sub felt, and what we should try to do differently next time. This discussion of what happened, how he and I felt, what we should do differently, what we should keep approximately the same, etcetera, often lasts as long as the play session itself. It's vital to ensure your sub's wellbeing. Aftercare is really important, as you said so beautifully here:

bondagefreak wrote:At the end of these sessions, it's not unusual for the sub to start crying or shedding some tears. The emotional release is perfectly normal and to be expected and it's always followed by a great sense of joy and peace. Many new Doms (myself included) did not know how to respond to the crying at first. Some subs just need a few minutes to collect themselves while others need to be held, cuddled and spoken to softly. By the time this happens, a Dom should know which option the sub prefers.

Unlike what some might feel, domination-oriented bondage is not a heartless exercise, even if it's somewhat darker and grittier than the vanilla-type bondage that is prevalent on this board.
bondage /'bɒndɪdʒ/ noun & verb. ME.
A The condition of being bound or tied; fig. subjection to authority, constraining force, or obligation. LME.
‣b
spec. Sadomasochism involving binding, handcuffing, etc. M20.

(SOED, 6th ed.)

Re: Ideal Rope Length Question

Postby bondagefreak » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:21 am

Hey Sniifmyfeet,
Glad to see you joining the discussion.

Sniffmyfeet wrote:This means that the sub can be fully sub and the Dom can be fully Dom, instead of the sub telling the Dom what to do and the Dom serving the sub's whims!


Exactly my point.

There's a huge difference between vanilla TUGs and Dom & sub bondage.
In vanilla TUGs, one person just wants to get tied up while the other wants to do the tying.
In Dom & sub bondage, the sub just wants to please the Dom and give up his control to him or her.

Submissives are quite literally driven by the need to please. As hard as it is to understand, that's what brings them pleasure and satisfaction.
It's a difficult concept to grasp, 'cause many don't make the distinction between enjoying the state of being tied up and being submissive.

The subs I've played with would not have wanted me to concern myself with their wishes as far as how to tie up and gag.
The satisfaction for them came in the form of knowing that their obedience and submissiveness pleased me.
They don't wanna make decisions or be in a position to decide anything, which is why they crave these bondage domination sessions so much.

There is no (or only very little) room for negotiation. When I Dom, I try to push a guy, until he actually wants out. Some may think this is abusive. It's not. The guys I play with actually like it when I push their boundaries a bit, without crossing any of their limits. For example, I recently made a guy sniff his sneakers (something he really liked), but when he had sniffed them for half an hour, he begged me to stop, which I didn't until he had sniffed them for at least ten more minutes. That's part of the play, it is a huge turn-on for the sub to get told by the Master to continue.


Again, well said.
I can definitely relate to that.

When I play, I leave VERY little negotiating room to the sub.
I have to admit though, I do like to make the sub think that he can change my mind by being particularly obedient. I also like to push the sub to the edge. With the really submissive guys, it's important to keep a particularly close watch though, 'cause oftentimes they don't realise what the "limit" is for them until they're there, meaning that it becomes doubly important to snap out of harsh domineering stance within a second or two and switch to "care" mode just as fast.


During the sessions I've had, one of the thrills I got came from making the ungagged sub ask for permission to speak or say something.
I just love saying "No" or "Quiet" when the sub glances up at me and calls me "Sir?" to ask if he can speak 8)
It's very humiliating not to be allowed to talk or ask something when you're not physically prevented from doing so.

There lies the difference between a rope bunny and a submissive.
A rope bunny is just someone who enjoys being tied up. He/she would never adhere to the psychological restraint associated with only speaking when receiving permission...not in any lasting fashion at least. The rope bunny considers himself equal to the person tying him up, whereas the submissive does not.

Not being given the permission to speak, although frustrating, generally proves to be thrilling for the sub.

That's usually one of the first things I do during a domination bondage session. Leave the sub ungagged for a while and not grant him permission to speak.

If the sub feels he is in serious danger or really needs to say something, he will. But 99.9% of the time, he'll accept the "No" and respond by lowering his head and his gaze as a sign of respect and submission.
It works every time and I've been told by two different subs that it's a hugely gratifying experience.
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Re: Ideal Rope Length Question + Discussion about bondage/domination/submission

Postby Yee-hogtied-haw » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:49 pm

Considering some of the stuff I'm into can easily be very dark should the sub also be into it, I probably should avoid this particular discussion of sub and domming. But I do have to say Bondagefreak definitely has stated lots of opinions on which I agree upon.

And yes, having a sub begging to speak is a great way of keeping them feeling small rather than just keeping them gagged. After all, if they speak out of turn, then it's an opportunity to hand gag them for a while. :D
Don't expect to free yourself once you're bound by me. Even if you do, expect to immediately be wrestled back to the ground and subdued with additional penalties applied. And trust me, the second time round, the roping will be serious.