## Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by SolidSnickerdoodle » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:21 pm

So, for those of you who haven't heard, Mississippi recently joined North Carolina in passing its own Religious Freedom Bill. The crux of this bill is that it allows business owners to refuse service to LGBT customers, or even fire LGBT employees, on the grounds of religious beliefs.
In the case of Mississippi, the bill has been well received by the majority of the community, but has still come under fire from LGBT activists, as well as corporations. Companies including Chevrolet, Nissan, and Tyson have criticized the bill for enabling discrimination and have threatened to cease their business in Mississippi should the law continue.
Meanwhile, in my own home state of Georgia, a similar bill was in the works, but was vetoed by Governor Nathan Deal under tremendous public and corporate pressure (score 1 for the South).
Non-discrimination laws have been enforced in the workplace for years, as they should be. But for some reason this bill has skirted around those requirements, with the intent of protecting religious freedom.
For me, this is where religion starts to become harmful. Religion is perfectly fine so long as you practice it personally and don't allow it to negatively affect other's lives. These are people's livelihoods we're talking about here.
It doesn't even really reflect religion as a whole. The bill specifies the ability to deny service or employment on the grounds of homosexuality, but nothing else. That sounds a lot like Christianity to me. And if my memory serves me well, the first amendment states that the federal government shall pass no law favoring any one religion.
In my opinion, these so called "Religious Freedom Bills" are nothing more than bigoted discrimination. The core of discrimination is to target an individual for something that is out of control. If a religion such as Mormonism came forth and claimed that their holy book says that blacks and Native Americans are the inferior races (which it does), and therefore they should be allowed to refuse service to them, there would be no chance of that bill passing. It would get shot down faster than a draft could be written up.
I think the difference here is that a lot of people still believe that being homosexual or bisexual is a choice, not something that is out of control, so they don't view it as discrimination.
And at the end of the day, what harm is befalling these business owners by servicing or employing LGBT members anyway? Do they that they, by serving somebody chicken or giving them a paycheck for their labor, are somehow reinforcing their "lifestyle"? It's not like you're at their bedside cheering them on or anything.
We know that homosexuality is not going to go away, so I think it's best if we all accept it for what it is: a biological predisposition.
Last edited by SolidSnickerdoodle on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by wataru14 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:31 pm

I'm not going to say what I really think, because it's just going to make people mad. But I will say that the only way to stop bullshit like this from happening is to update Federal Civil Rights laws to include LGBT. Then these laws are superseded by the federal government and get nuked from orbit as soon as they happen. Then the assholes that propose them can flail impotently at the future all they want. Hell, it's nothing they're not used to.
Last edited by wataru14 on Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jay Feely » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:53 pm

I disagree with this bill. I'm a Christian but I do not agree that we should enact a law this.
You will have to subdue me to restrain me. I been a bad boy so make sure you torture me too with anything but pain.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by xtc » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:40 am

Wataru makes a similar point to the one I would have made. The fault is with the Federal System.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!
More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:21 am

One more reason to elect Bernie Sanders; he would make such a change as soon as possible. Hillary would take her sweet time about it if she bothered to do it at all. Cruz would double down on this bill and make it the law in all fifty states... and make it apply to Muslims and Hispanics too if he could. What Trump would do would be anyone's guess - that man doesn't have a clue about literally anything - but he likely wouldn't change things for the better. Any other GOP candidate would, at best, do nothing at all. Only Sanders would seek to do the right thing on this matter and not stop until the change was made.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by SolidSnickerdoodle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:19 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:One more reason to elect Bernie Sanders; he would make such a change as soon as possible. Hillary would take her sweet time about it if she bothered to do it at all. Cruz would double down on this bill and make it the law in all fifty states... and make it apply to Muslims and Hispanics too if he could. What Trump would do would be anyone's guess - that man doesn't have a clue about literally anything - but he likely wouldn't change things for the better. Any other GOP candidate would, at best, do nothing at all. Only Sanders would seek to do the right thing on this matter and not stop until the change was made.

I seriously wonder, if you took everything surrounding Hillary: All the scandals, all the donations from Wall Street, all the backpedaling, and all the flat-out lies; if you took the entire package that makes up her as a political entity, and the only difference was that she was a man instead of a woman running for president, if she would have gotten as far as she has.
In other words, I wonder if the biggest proponent for her presidency is the fact that she has is a woman. There are many I'm sure who know nothing of her political background or history, but are voting for her simply because she's a woman and "it's time that we finally had a female president".
I have a feeling if you took a "Henry" Clinton and paired him up against Bernie Sanders, then there would be a landslide favorability for Bernie. But evidently, the fact that she has a vagina is enough to carry her to victory.
The same thing happened with Obama if you remember. And I'm not one to hop aboard the "Thanks Obama" train, but you should vote for somebody because you agree with their ideals, not because they are a minority.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:01 pm

> SolidSnickerdoodle wrote: And I'm not one to hop aboard the "Thanks Obama" train, but you should vote for somebody because you agree with their ideals, not because they are a minority.

Quite so. Which is why i support Bernie. Not because he's a Jew and not because he's an atheist, but because i like what he says. Hillary is just another corporate shill who would be only marginally on the side of common people. She at least would be better than Cruz or Trump, who are appealing only to racists, evangelicals, and wealthy old white men.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by xtc » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:29 pm

Hang on; since when are females a minority?
Shurely shome mishtake?
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!
More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by SolidSnickerdoodle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:50 pm

> xtc wrote:Hang on; since when are females a minority?
> Shurely shome mishtake?

Minority in the sense of "there's never been a female or black president before, so we must vote for one".
It's not the best logic. I'd be fully on board with having a woman president, if I liked her political ideals. The problem here, I think, is that a lot of people don't bother to do any research. They just see that she's a woman and that's enough for them.
Of course this isn't always the case. I've know plenty of women who are not voting for Clinton. While they would still like to have one in the future, they believe that she doesn't deserve the title of first female president.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:13 pm

Now, if it were Elizabeth Warren we were discussing, I'd be totally on board with the idea of the next president being a woman. She is much more progressive than Hillary ever even thought of being.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Nicktie » Sun May 15, 2016 10:07 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:Now, if it were Elizabeth Warren we were discussing, I'd be totally on board with the idea of the next president being a woman. She is much more progressive than Hillary ever even thought of being.

A Sanders-Warren ticket would be incredibly awesome, i think

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun May 15, 2016 10:29 pm

A Sanders-Warren ticket would be incredibly awesome, i think[/quote]
Yes, i completely agree. Unfortunately, it's not terribly likely unless Hillary makes a major blunder even she can't sweep under the rug. The way things are going, she might actually lose to Trump - something I doubt would be the case if Bernie was the Democratic nominee. It's getting so that way oo many people would rather vote for trump or just stay home rather than vote for her, even though despite her many major flaws she is a much saner candidate than Trump.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by SolidSnickerdoodle » Mon May 16, 2016 2:51 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:Yes, i completely agree. Unfortunately, it's not terribly likely unless Hillary makes a major blunder even she can't sweep under the rug. The way things are going, she might actually lose to Drumpf - something I doubt would be the case if Bernie was the Democratic nominee. It's getting so that way oo many people would rather vote for trump or just stay home rather than vote for her, even though despite her many major flaws she is a much saner candidate than Drumpf.

I think the question a lot of people are having to ask themselves is who they hate less: Hillary or Drumpf.
On the one side, we have Drumpf, who incites violence like it's his job and has said phrases such as "I could walk out into Times Square, shoot somebody, and not lose a single voter". The man is a class A political joke, has made countless offensive remarks to women, oversimplifies immigration, and lacks any sort of professionalism that is supposed to come with a president. I honestly can't believe he's made it this far.
But, Hillary also has a trail of lies and deceit that follows her all the way up to the podium, with this email scandal only being the most recent case. If you'll remember she also used her visit to civil war-torn Bosnia for her own political gain, saying things like "We came in under sniper fire and had to run to our cars. There was no welcoming ceremony." Meanwhile, there is video evidence of her stepping off her plane, shaking hands, and kissing children on the tarmac. And that's just one example; lord knows there's more.
So, do you want somebody who will almost certainly screw something up during his presidency, mot likely by leading the delicate practices of diplomacy into a flaming tailspin. Or do you want somebody who has lied her way to the top, cares nothing for the middle class or minorities she claims to stand for, takes money from and owes favors to Wall Street (while claiming she's still taking a stand against them), and will most likely make another mistake that will lead to her impeachment?
I don't know, man. This is a match up in hell and I don't want either of them. But, at least for me anyway, the issue is not as black and white as it once was. I hold them both on pretty equal grounds of discontent.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon May 16, 2016 6:01 pm

I had to check my own post to make sure I hadn't called Trump Drumph . As I have also watched that John Oliver sketch where he calls trump that, I thought i might have subconsciously referenced it. Though I agree with you 100% about Trump (and Hillary too), it's not really 'cricket' to change the wording of one's posts without explanation when you quote people!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by drawscore » Tue May 17, 2016 1:29 am

"Your right to swing your fist through the air, ends at the point of my chin."
Drawscore

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Tue May 17, 2016 8:46 am

> drawscore wrote:"Your right to swing your fist through the air, ends at the point of my chin."
> Drawscore

I know you've cited that quote several times before, but what the heck is it supposed to mean here?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Chris12 » Tue May 17, 2016 12:50 pm

> SolidSnickerdoodle wrote:

> > Jason Toddman wrote:Yes, i completely agree. Unfortunately, it's not terribly likely unless Hillary makes a major blunder even she can't sweep under the rug. The way things are going, she might actually lose to Drumpf - something I doubt would be the case if Bernie was the Democratic nominee. It's getting so that way oo many people would rather vote for trump or just stay home rather than vote for her, even though despite her many major flaws she is a much saner candidate than Drumpf.

> I think the question a lot of people are having to ask themselves is who they hate less: Hillary or Drumpf.
> On the one side, we have Drumpf, who incites violence like it's his job and has said phrases such as "I could walk out into Times Square, shoot somebody, and not lose a single voter". The man is a class A political joke, has made countless offensive remarks to women, oversimplifies immigration, and lacks any sort of professionalism that is supposed to come with a president. I honestly can't believe he's made it this far.
> But, Hillary also has a trail of lies and deceit that follows her all the way up to the podium, with this email scandal only being the most recent case. If you'll remember she also used her visit to civil war-torn Bosnia for her own political gain, saying things like "We came in under sniper fire and had to run to our cars. There was no welcoming ceremony." Meanwhile, there is video evidence of her stepping off her plane, shaking hands, and kissing children on the tarmac. And that's just one example; lord knows there's more.
> So, do you want somebody who will almost certainly screw something up during his presidency, mot likely by leading the delicate practices of diplomacy into a flaming tailspin. Or do you want somebody who has lied her way to the top, cares nothing for the middle class or minorities she claims to stand for, takes money from and owes favors to Wall Street (while claiming she's still taking a stand against them), and will most likely make another mistake that will lead to her impeachment?
> I don't know, man. This is a match up in hell and I don't want either of them. But, at least for me anyway, the issue is not as black and white as it once was. I hold them both on pretty equal grounds of discontent.

Can't say I envy any nation with those two as the only option for leadership but on paper at least I'd say Hillary is the better candidate by far. Not being part of the establishment has been a boon for Trump so far but when it comes to leading the leader and most prosperous member of the civilized world then its not a good thing at all. Trump hasn't held any public office, not even the simplest one so why would one expect him to succeed in the highest office of them all. Being an outsider who rails against his more established peers also makes sure he doesn't have any real allies to speak of. That a ''contested convention'' was even on the table at all shows how little support Trump really has within his own party.
He also has the classical populist weakness that his ideas merely sound good when you don't think about them but that a lot are either terrible or downright impossible to implement.
Hillary on the other hand has, on paper at least a pretty glowing resume. First lady, foreign affairs and a senatorship. I wouldn't disagree with those that claim she was neither likable nor trustworthy in any of those roles but having the experience at least gives her the very basic requirements needed for the job.
A vote for Hillary is a vote for the status quo which many are dissatisfied with. Can't really fault them for that but in a time where crisis after crisis is piling up for the west I'd take that over wild experiments with populist oafs.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Tue May 17, 2016 2:25 pm

> Chris12 wrote: Can't say I envy any nation with those two as the only option for leadership but on paper at least I'd say Hillary is the better candidate by far.

I don't like Hillary much but i'm forced to agree. Even so, I'm not giving up on Bernie Sanders unless he drops out of the general election altogether. The idea of voting for Hillary just because her opponent is a nutjob like Trump disgusts me no end.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by SolidSnickerdoodle » Tue May 17, 2016 4:23 pm

> Chris12 wrote:A vote for Hillary is a vote for the status quo which many are dissatisfied with. Can't really fault them for that but in a time where crisis after crisis is piling up for the west I'd take that over wild experiments with populist oafs.

I don't know if I'd equate her with the status quo.
There's already so much corruption and conspiracy surrounding her, more so than what I would assume is the norm (I'm only 18 so I have so past election experiences to draw on). Lest we forget that she is running for president while also being under investigation by the FBI for leaking state secrets.
I would imagine that a majority of her voters are probably voting for her out of fear of Drumpf. This is, after all, the focus behind her PR ads; a shimmering knight come to save us from the evil Mr. Drumpf. Nonetheless, while those may be the majority of her populace, I can't help but feel that a vote for her would symbolize a degree of contentment with what what she is doing; it's a way of saying "I'm okay with what you're doing, a least enough to want you as my president."
It's not a vote for the status quo. It's a vote for three steps back in my opinion. It's a vote for shady political corruption and influence by the wealthy, the very thing that she embodies. And it's a vote for political practices that are certainty not okay, but are seen as better than that of Drumpf.
And I get it. All of this said, I would still rather have her than Drumpf. She would probably wouldn't tell Kim Jong Un to go fuck himself and start some sort of conflict. She would at least act professionally and on the up and up even though we know she's not. She has the decency to be twisted behind closed doors.
However, despite what many currently believe, you don't have to vote for either one of them. There is a third option. Bernie is still in this race, and for me not only represents an adequate candidate, but a step in the right direction. No matter what happens, come election day I'm going to vote for him.
There is only one God, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: Not today.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Tue May 17, 2016 4:45 pm

> SolidSnickerdoodle wrote:I don't know if I'd equate her with the status quo.
> There's already so much corruption and conspiracy surrounding her, more so than what I would assume is the norm (I'm only 18 so I have so past election experiences to draw on).

Umm, no...that corruption IS the status quo now. It didn't used to be - at least not so blatantly and openly - but it is now.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by wataru14 » Wed May 18, 2016 3:30 am

> SolidSnickerdoodle wrote:No matter what happens, come election day I'm going to vote for him.

I'm a Bernie supporter, too. I voted for him in my state's (rigged) primary. But think about what you are saying. Doing this will hand Trump the election with a ribbon on it. In a few possible ways.
It's the same thing that comes to mind when people say "we need a viable Third Party" or "We need to get rid of the two-party system." You need to have a majority of the vote to win the presidency, not just have the most votes. If there are three or more candidates, it is extremely likely that none of them will garner that majority. Which means the decision as to who wins the election goes to the House of Representatives to decide who is president. And they are not required to pick the one with the most votes. Don't forget that the first time this happened the second-place finisher (John Quincy Adams) was chosen and the whole event is still referred to as "The Corrupt Bargain." Do you really want Paul Ryan and the Tea Party hand-picking the president? That is even farther removed from the Democratic process than we currently are. That is what a vote for Bernie will do if he doesn't win the Democratic nomination.

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed May 18, 2016 7:37 am

Sadly I agree with Wataru14. If Bernie is reduced to being a write-in candidate I'll likely either not vote at all unless the results are too close to call in my state or trump is the favorite. If Hillary is strongly favored, i probably won't even bother to vote.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by elusinius » Wed May 18, 2016 4:53 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:Sadly I agree with Wataru14. If Bernie is reduced to being a write-in candidate I'll likely either not vote at all unless the results are too close to call in my state or trump is the favorite. If Hillary is strongly favored, i probably won't even bother to vote.

In my opinion, the election of Trump and his creatures would be a sentinel
disaster for this country. Our very survival could depend on keeping him
out of the White House.
Have you also considered that there are other offices that are also in play
in the upcoming election. Think of the Congress and Senate for an example.
There are state and local races to consider as well.
Today Trump named his choices for the supreme court. If people stay home
and allow reactionaries to be seated in Congress, they will become a reality.
I do not have the luxury of not voting. Trump has attached himself to anti semites,
racists, homophobes and gangsters. I do not belong to any group that would not
be attacked by these creatures.
I also have young grand nieces and nephews. They must not be put at jeopardy
by forgoing my responsibility as a man and a citizen.
My father did not nearly die off the coast of North Africa in World war II so that
his son would allow fascist vermin to use the republic as their chattel.
Even if you leave the top office blank, vote damn it!

### Re: Mississippi Passes "Religious Freedom Bill"

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed May 18, 2016 8:23 pm

We'll see how it goes. I definitely don't want to see what President trump would be like.
The republicans have screwed up the country too much as it is.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...