Wikipedia shutdown

Postby sarobah » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:49 pm

I normally don’t start threads in this section, but this issue has really, really annoyed me.
As you may be aware, Wikipedia (along with other websites) has initiated a worldwide 24-hour shutdown of the English language version to protest pending US anti-piracy legislation. While the motives behind some of the opposition to anti-piracy laws are less than noble, on the whole it is a righteous cause. However, this particular action strikes me as nothing more than hypocritical anti-Americanism.
Why not a blackout to protest the policies of the dozens of countries which already impose internet censorship far harsher than anything proposed in the US laws? Of course, the old excuse will be dragged out – protests can have an impact in the US because it’s a democracy. That one wears thin very quickly.
As a non-American, I am fed up with this obsessive denigration of the US, which is clearly a substitute for genuine attempts at making the WORLD a better place. It’s a common sentiment here in Australia. Anything bad must be the result of “American cultural imperialism” – so we don’t have to take responsibility for our own failings or take action to improve ourselves. It is so much easier and more comforting to transfer the blame elsewhere.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby mistofoleese » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:31 pm

GIVE EM HELL SARAH

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Chris12 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:01 am

As a non American i hold the exact opposite view. I get that they are trying to deal with piracy but still this bill should never be passed! Aside the fact that censoring the internet is wrong(and pretty much impossible) America just doesn't have the right. Why give a single country the power to screw over the internet experiance of the people from every other country too?. As a dutchman i just don't think they have any justification to controll the internet in a way that will effect me.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby sarobah » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:50 am

The proposed bill (which has actually been withdrawn – although that doesn’t stop the protests, apparently) does NOT affect the rest of the world – any more so than the blanket censorship applied by neo-fascist states like China and Iran. However, I note that there are no worldwide protests against those countries.
In other words, this protest is only peripherally about internet censorship. It’s just another brainless, hypocritical attack on the US to divert attention from the real problems of the world.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Kyle » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:45 pm

Couple of reasons:

1. This one has a chance to really affect a lot of people. So many websites originate in the US that if they get shut down here it affects people all over the world. That doesn't happen in China.

2. It's the US, we're not allowed to do anything that's unpopular with other countries.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby questionguy » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:25 pm

NO FAIR!!! I WAS GONNA POST THIS!!! *****************************

If the government is going to force us to pay for the internet, the government will completely run small websites, and even sites like wiki, out of business. If that does happen, all hell has certainly broken loose.
[b][color=#0080FF][u]Stories written:7
Fav video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOpHPV4z ... ature=plcp
last story viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12625
Last question viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13416

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Chase Ricks » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:23 am

With those acts, Facebook would lose the millions of members it has. Yahoo Groups would have way less pictures in them. Photobucket.com would have to delete lots of images unless hand drawn. I do not think I need to say anymore except this late reminder.

Stop SOPA before it is too late. Internet freedom belongs to everyone all over the world. If not for your kids, do it for your nieces and nephews so they can grow up in a better world.
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby skybird137 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:51 am

Also note that it seems that even uploading copyrighted material can be a felon offence and could carry a five year sentence.

Couple that with the fact that if you are in another country, the USA will want to have you extradited for your "serious" crime.

I think that this is something that we should all worry about.


Line up of convicts in chains being lead into a US Penetentiary. 5 men and two children, a boy and a girl.

Warden "What are you in here for?"

Man 1: Murder
Man 2:Child kidnap and torture
Man 3: I was building bombs
Man 4: Arson
Man 5: Armed Robbery

The Warden then turns to the two children and says "What are you two in for?"

Boy: "I video'd myself singing and put it on Youtube"
Girl: "I set up a scene with my little ponies, photo'd it and put it on Facebook"

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby xtc » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:57 am

Laugh ye not. The USA IS trying to extradite a Brit for posting links to copyright-busting sites. It's not even an offense in this country!

As I have said elewhere on this site: NOBODY should EVER be extradited to the USA.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Chris12 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:15 am

From what i've heard they even arrested some of the creators of megauploads, who wheren't even American citizens! That shouldn't even be possible.

On another note, Hollywood is quite pissed that Obama isn't supporting Sopa....which is actually the same as saying your mad at him for having a heart and a brain.

http://rt.com/usa/news/hollywood-obama- ... pport-229/

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby sarobah » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:21 am

skybird137 wrote:Line up of convicts in chains being lead into a US Penetentiary. 5 men and two children, a boy and a girl.

Line-up of convicts awaiting execution in China.
Warden “What are you in here for?”
Convicts: “Organizing a union.”

Line-up of teenage girls awaiting execution in Iran.
Warden “What are you in here for?”
Convicts: “Being raped.”

Worldwide protests ensue... Yeah, right.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Chris12 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:25 pm

Its not exactly the same, those two countries don't even try to pretend to have standerds when it come's to such laws. China and Iran are often put in a ''villains role'' and they from their actions it seems they are quite comfertable there.

America on the other hands is always talking about freedom and protecting freedom so this whole thing makes them seem hollow and hypocritical. Its indeed not fair that America's actions create mass protests but the action of those two countries don't, but people are much more likely to protest against a nearby hypocrite that will cause problems for them then against a ''villain'' who's far away and content on causing trouble for just their own people.

China is a rising power but any cencorship they perform doesn't really affect the western world in any way, Iran is a backwater and aside from their possible future nukes just not relevent enough to bring about world wide protest.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Kyle » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:39 pm

My guess is this is something some politicians are supporting because of money they're getting from the MPAA and others behind the idea, because while I've seen both Republicans and Democrats in support of it in Washington almost nobody, liberal, conservative, or otherwise, really seems to like it.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby dreadnaught3200 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:50 am

I think it's undeniable that the motivations behind SOPA were entirely financial. Hollywood lobbied, paid a few people off and bingo. Which if you ask me is a little silly, given that the music industry has been hit much harder than the movie industry and to a large extent is getting over it.

And Sarobah I do agree with you that on a moral level, there are a great many more important things that Wikipedia should be blacking out in protest of. However, I'm not entirely sure that to call it anti-american is correct. As a Canadian citizen, I would not be effected by SOPA as I'm currently not effected by American anti-downloading laws. I regarded it as an internal american affair. Wikipedia was founded in Huntsville Alabama by an American. It was an American company, protesting an American issue. Therefore it seems totally understandable to me that they would go dark to protest it.

But more important still, is the fact that wikipedia's black out played a significant role in the downfall of SOPA. It had an immediate and noticeable effect on the entire country.

(I joked with some friends that Obama decided to veto SOPA because he couldn't get on Wikipedia and said "Oh hell no!")

If Wiki was to go black in protest of the atrocities in China and Iran, it wouldn't do a damn thing. Frankly, if there were simultaneous protests in every city in the western world it wouldn't do anything. The Chinese government is still comprised of hard-line communists, who have proven time and again that they will silence dissidence with tanks. Iran is run by an extremist Muslim theocracy who seem willing to jihad anything that moves. The only thing we could do to bring about an end to these regimes would be war. Considering that war with either of these countries could quite possibly go nuclear, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I don't mean to sound callous. Stories of girls being jailed because THEY were raped, make me sick. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about it.
There's a permanent tension in music isn't there? On one hand you have three chords, you know, four four and three chords. Then there's the people like me, who say "Well, why don't we add a fourth chord and put it in five four?" - Bill Bruford

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby skybird137 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:08 am

Line-up of teenage girls awaiting execution in Iran.
Warden “What are you in here for?”
Convicts: “Being raped.


That reminds me of another threat to freedom in the USA, religious Fundamentalism. Some people in the USA want the country to abide by Biblical law. Which is just as bad.

It is also in the nature of all governments to want to turn into a Tyranny.

If nothing is done, the US government could end up as Totalitarian, corperate controlled or Fundamentalist. Free people who don't keep an eye on their government just become people, or less.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby myself1931 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:32 pm

sarobah wrote:The proposed bill (which has actually been withdrawn – although that doesn’t stop the protests, apparently) does NOT affect the rest of the world – any more so than the blanket censorship applied by neo-fascist states like China and Iran. However, I note that there are no worldwide protests against those countries.
In other words, this protest is only peripherally about internet censorship. It’s just another brainless, hypocritical attack on the US to divert attention from the real problems of the world.


Just to put in my two cents. First off, the bill has not been withdrawn. If it had been, that would mean the end of it. Unfortunately, the vote on the bill has only been "postponed". This means that it could, and quite likely will come back later on. Like everyone else has said, this bill WOULD have an effect on the rest of the world. If you need an example, lets examine the recent shutdown of megaupload. At the request of certain companies, the US government not only shutdown the website for "copyright infringement", but it also had GERMAN citizens in NEW ZEALAND arrested. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/ ... XM20120125 These people are currently awaiting extradition to the US. These are GERMAN citizens in NEW ZEALAND being arrested, effectively at the request of large Hollywood companies.

Speaking of which, a certain someone, who I will soon name, blatantly admitted to buying senators votes, in order to get their way.First, lets look at this article: http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/24/mpaa- ... -comments/

In fact, as a result of the backlash from the anit-SOPA protests, the White House has to make an official statement regarding this buying of votes. http://www.techspot.com/news/47160-mpaa ... power.html

Obviously, this bill is not dead yet. In fact, it is even more likely that this "cyber war 1" will only escalate from here. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
Finally got out of that small town, I now live in Toronto. Anyone nearby feel free to hit me up.

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Chase Ricks » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:11 am

Am gearing up to join the protests. Will pm in secret when I have made my move. Until then go forth Internet Avengers! "zooms away in borrowed Batmobile."
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby zanev » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:45 am

Chris12 wrote:From what i've heard they even arrested some of the creators of megauploads, who wheren't even American citizens! That shouldn't even be possible.



If I go to another country and kill someone, and fly back here...im getting arrested here and sent back over seas to face trial. If you break the law in another country and hide somewhere else and they have extradition rights, then your butt is being shipped over to that country.
I close my eyes, Inis Mona
And reminisce of those palmy days
I moon o'er you, Inis Mona
As long as I breathe
I'll call you my home

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby Chase Ricks » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:51 am

zanev wrote:
Chris12 wrote:From what i've heard they even arrested some of the creators of megauploads, who wheren't even American citizens! That shouldn't even be possible.



If I go to another country and kill someone, and fly back here...im getting arrested here and sent back over seas to face trial. If you break the law in another country and hide somewhere else and they have extradition rights, then your butt is being shipped over to that country.


I am quite safe thanks. lol Ten years ago in five months was sent from Canada back to the United States due to a certain notorious email I sent out on a government website. They have not asked me yet to return back to Canada to be charged. Under these new laws I do not think I will be charged anyway because I do not really think they have been tracking my ip codes for the last decade since have used way too many different home and library computers to be online in that time.
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: Wikipedia shutdown

Postby drawscore » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:43 pm

Wikipedia is a strange site. Type in "Stupid f***ing asshole" in the "search" field, and you get the bios of numerous politicians, Hollywood movie stars, TV personalities, Fox News and MSNBC commentators, and other airheads. Probably from their political opponents, as anyone can add to what is already there. Since many entries are made by people with axes to grind, I would be suspect of the accuracy of the information contained on Wikipedia.

Drawscore