## Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:45 am

An unlikely but informative video about wealth inequality in America points out the extremely flawed logic of conservatives about who the moochers really are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
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### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:44 pm

What it shows, is that there are a lot of people that work hard to better their lot in life. There are also those that sit on their asses and do nothing, and expect the rest of us to feed, clothe, and otherwise support them.
Some inherit their wealth, without ever having to work a day in their lives (Kennedy family). But whatever, know this: America is the most generous country in the world, and is always there to help those in need. However, I do not want to subsidize with my taxes, a generation of couch potatoes, whose only contribution to society has been to produce another generation of couch potatoes.
"God helps those that help themselves." I believe that. There are numerous opportunities for improvement and significant life changes for the better. Those that seek out, and take advantage of those opportunities, I am more than willing to help if they find themselves temporarily stuck. But, like the sign in the national park says: "Please do not feed the animals. They will become dependent, and unable to care for themselves." By the same token, let's give those that need it, a hand up, not a handout.
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Chris12 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:30 pm

> drawscore wrote:What it shows, is that there are a lot of people that work hard to better their lot in life. There are also those that sit on their asses and do nothing, and expect the rest of us to feed, clothe, and otherwise support them.
> Some inherit their wealth, without ever having to work a day in their lives (Kennedy family). But whatever, know this: America is the most generous country in the world, and is always there to help those in need. However, I do not want to subsidize with my taxes, a generation of couch potatoes, whose only contribution to society has been to produce another generation of couch potatoes.
> "God helps those that help themselves." I believe that. There are numerous opportunities for improvement and significant life changes for the better. Those that seek out, and take advantage of those opportunities, I am more than willing to help if they find themselves temporarily stuck. But, like the sign in the national park says: "Please do not feed the animals. They will become dependent, and unable to care for themselves." By the same token, let's give those that need it, a hand up, not a handout.
> Drawscore

The scenario where those on wellfare are poor because they are lazy and where the rich are rich because they work hard is one that exist in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world however so its a falacy to believe in that scenario. Those claiming the poor are poor because they are lazy are quite ignorant.
There are people who work themselves half to death and never get the ability to afford more then a small apartment and there are rich people who just got their wealth by knowing the right people.
America the most generous country on earth? Is that why there is almost no social safety net and a general distrust for actual healthcare? doesn't seem very generous to me. I suppose you mean Americans give a lot to charity which they might do but charity isn't an alternative to a social safety nett because the majority of the people in every country are to greedy. For social security to be effective you need taxes.
The thought that the poor need to ''help themselves'' seems pretty ignorant. If those chances where as plenty as some politicians claim then those people wouldn't be poor! No one wants to be poor. The thought that people would happily live off the bare minimun they get on wellfare simply isn't part of reality. People don't want to live that way, they don't want to only be able to afford food and a roof and nothing more. The life on Wellfare is a hard one that most are dying to escape, most find it really embaresing to be on wellfare to.
Sure i'l admit some people are to lazy to work but those are just a tiny percentage, the vast majority is dying for any chance to escape poverty. Would you deny them that just to stick it to the tiny percentage that doesn't?

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:48 pm

>>>The scenario where those on wellfare are poor because they are lazy and where the rich are rich because they work hard is one that exist in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world however so its a falacy to believe in that scenario. Those claiming the poor are poor because they are lazy are quite ignorant.<<<
The left always misunderstands or misinterprets what is being said. Not everyone that is rich, worked hard to get there, and not everyone on welfare, is lazy. Some people just do not understand that concept. They also have trouble with "The more you provide for someone, the more dependent that person becomes."
Another thing that seems to be difficult to comprehend, is that the socialist/communist mantra of "From each, according to his abilities, to each, according to his needs." does not, and never has worked. Just look at Venezuela. The late, unlamented socialist Hugo Chavez amassed 2 billion dollars worth of oil money, and yet, there are more poor people in Venezuela, than there were when he came to power 14 years ago. So much for "spreading the wealth."
Chris, you don't live here. You probably have never even visited. You know nothing about the US, other than what you read in the schoolbooks, newspapers, or see on TV and the internet, and most of that is heavily slanted toward the left. Live here for 5-10 years, and then your comments might carry more credibility.
We need taxes? How much? 5% of income? 10 or 20%? 50%? What? Did it escape your notice, that when liberal icon John F. Kennedy reduced taxes in 1961, government revenue increased? Or when conservative icon Ronald Reagan did the same thing in the 80's, the same thing happened? A wise man once said that giving more money to the government, is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenaged boys.
And actually, welfare in this country is quite generous. There are those that "game the system" to make more sitting home and playing games on the internet, then they would if they went to work at a job paying $12 an hour.
I am more than willing to help those that try to help themselves. I am not willing to help those that sit on their asses, and sponge off society. I am also willing to help those that are down on their luck. But not forever. I thought that much was clear in my first comment.
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:48 pm

What's clear from your first comment Drawscore is that you don't understand how unfettered capitalism actually works, or how the economy has made hard work insufficient to get ahead in life even since Ronald Reagen - if not earlier.
You say you're not willing to help those that sit on their asses, and sponge off society. But hasn't it occurred to you that this is precisely what many of the richest people actually do? Those CEOs with their huge salaries and multi-million dollar bonuses... where do you think the money they 'earn' comes from? From paying their employees no more than they absolutely have to, from gutting pension funds, from paying peanuts to depositors while paying out huge dividends to stockholders, from laying off workers and making others take up the slack with no pay raises so they can take the unused wages for themselves, from outsourcing jobs to places where they can pay workers far less than the American minimum wage, from placing their money into tax shelters so that they don't have to pay anywhere near as much in the way of income taxes as ordinary working class stiffs do (and where the money benefits the economies of other countries rather than our own). The money they 'earn' is money they steal from everyone else around them who aren't on their own elevated social-economic plane! Unless you're a CEO or largely self-employed, you're one of these victims yourself, and you don't even seem to realize it. The CEOs are the REAL moochers; not the average person struggling to find or hold a crappy job that doesn't even pay all his bills or allow him to save for the future.
The wealth inequity in America is approaching parity to that of many third-world countries, where most folks (the lazy and hard working alike) live in horrendous poverty. If you think that's a good thing, there's something wrong with either your head or your heart.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Chris12 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:29 am

> The left always misunderstands or misinterprets what is being said. Not everyone that is rich, worked hard to get there, and not everyone on welfare, is lazy. Some people just do not understand that concept. They also have trouble with "The more you provide for someone, the more dependent that person becomes."

Saying the poor need to ''help themselves'' directly implies everyone on welfare is already to lazy to do it already. The more you provide the more dependent someone becomes? Sure, but welfare doesn't provide much more then the bare minimun you need not to starve and a place to live. No extra money for fun or unexpected expenses.
[quoteAnother thing that seems to be difficult to comprehend, is that the socialist/communist mantra of "From each, according to his abilities, to each, according to his needs." does not, and never has worked. Just look at Venezuela. The late, unlamented socialist Hugo Chavez amassed 2 billion dollars worth of oil money, and yet, there are more poor people in Venezuela, than there were when he came to power 14 years ago. So much for "spreading the wealth."[/quote]
Can't say i never claimed we needed such a model. Take a look on another ''Socialist'' (with big quotation marks) way of doing things. Those in Scandinavia where it bloody works and the avarage man is much better off then anywhere in the world.

> Chris, you don't live here. You probably have never even visited. You know nothing about the US, other than what you read in the schoolbooks, newspapers, or see on TV and the internet, and most of that is heavily slanted toward the left. Live here for 5-10 years, and then your comments might carry more credibility.

So? Every country has poor people and every civilised country has some sort of welfare system. I don't need to be an expert on America to claim that the poor that want to leech off of wellfare are in the vast minority.

> We need taxes? How much? 5% of income? 10 or 20%? 50%? What? Did it escape your notice, that when liberal icon John F. Kennedy reduced taxes in 1961, government revenue increased? Or when conservative icon Ronald Reagan did the same thing in the 80's, the same thing happened? A wise man once said that giving more money to the government, is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenaged boys.

Not really rellevant to the point i was making. Social security can't be run on charity because you would never be able to set up a good system. The last time people seriously attempted to let charity replace a social safety nett was the industrial revolution, and it sucked!

> And actually, welfare in this country is quite generous. There are those that "game the system" to make more sitting home and playing games on the internet, then they would if they went to work at a job paying $12 an hour.

Yes and like i said those are the minority. The majority is out looking for a job. Some suceed and some fail.

> I am more than willing to help those that try to help themselves. I am not willing to help those that sit on their asses, and sponge off society. I am also willing to help those that are down on their luck. But not forever. I thought that much was clear in my first comment.

Well thats to bad because you can't sherrypick where your taxes go to. You pay taxes for social security and it helps people. Its not your place to decide which people.

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:52 am

You tell him, Chris!
Wish more American kids were as smart as you.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:59 pm

The problem is, that you cannot argue, or reason with, people who are committed to a particular philosophy. Their minds are made up, and they do not wish to be confused with facts and logic.
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:23 pm

> drawscore wrote:The problem is, that you cannot argue, or reason with, people who are committed to a particular philosophy. Their minds are made up, and they do not wish to be confused with facts and logic.
> Drawscore

You do know you're describing yourself, don't you?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:28 pm

Jason, you remind me of the old grade school taunt: "I know you are, but what am I?" Can you be original for a change?
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Chris12 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:15 am

Hahaha well you where kinda asking for that response when you posten that statement

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:56 am

> drawscore wrote:Jason, you remind me of the old grade school taunt: "I know you are, but what am I?" Can you be original for a change?
> Drawscore

First, if the shoe fits, wear it.
Second, since when have you been original?
Third, what do you think I was being when I started this topic? I'll bet you'd have never pointed out things like this!
Fourth, you remind me of a different school taunt: "You can dish it out, but you can't take it!"
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:14 pm

My, My, becoming testy in your old age, I see.
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:20 pm

> drawscore wrote:My, My, becoming testy in your old age, I see.
> Drawscore

What's the matter? Are you afraid of a little competition?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:26 pm

What competition?
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:12 pm

> drawscore wrote:What competition? Drawscore

In being the testiest, crankiest poster on this site, of course. What else?
Afraid I'll take the title away from you?
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:38 pm

Oh, hell no! You can't hold a candle to me in that department. Besides, you say that like it's something bad. But as far as having the biggest case of cranial-rectal inversion on the board, you take that title hands down.
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:03 pm

> drawscore wrote:Oh, hell no! You can't hold a candle to me in that department. Besides, you say that like it's something bad. But as far as having the biggest case of cranial-rectal inversion on the board, you take that title hands down.
> Drawscore

Fortunately, you're saying that doesn't make it so... any more than anything else you've said, thank God.
In any case, if anyone has their head up their heinie, it's the American conservative.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:10 am

Just as your saying it, also does not make it true.
Drawscore

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:52 am

> drawscore wrote:Just as your saying it, also does not make it true.
> Drawscore

Well, at least we agree on something. Which seems to be more than they can do in Washington DC!
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by mistofoleese » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:39 pm

DAMN I just got done WATCHING this movie two old cranky people huh ok NOW to figure out which one of you is jack lemon and which is Walter Mathau

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by Jason Toddman » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:09 pm

> mistofoleese wrote:DAMN I just got done WATCHING this movie two old cranky people huh ok NOW to figure out which one of you is jack lemon and which is Walter Mathau

I must be Mathau since Drawscore is usually so sour that he must be a lemon!
Yes, low blow... I admit it. But I'll bet dollars to donuts DS would have said something similar if I hadn't beaten him to it.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Wealth Inequality in America

Post by drawscore » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:33 pm

Well, we try to be entertaining.
Drawscore