Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby KP Presents » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:57 am

This news has being expected for some time - and I find myself conflicted.

I first heard of her as Maggie Thatcher, Milk Snatcher, when in the early seventies as Education Secretary she stopped the supply of free school milk to children. When she became Prime Minister in 1979, Britain was a country in crisis, and there was no doubting her strong leadership and the firmness of her convictions. There is no doubting her leadership during the Flaklands War was an inspiration to many many people.

On the other hand, I found many of th epolicies she pursued reprehensible in the effect they had on innocent people. I lived in the NE of England during the Miner's Strike, and while the enws covered the battles at the picket lines I saw the families forced to accept food donations. I saw the effect she had on those less well off, and I can give one prime example. When I first went to University, it was only made possible by the fact my fees were paid and I had a full grant to live on. Had I gone a few years later, I would not have been able to afford it.

I also saw, as time went on through the eighties, the way she had a "them and us" attitude that caused major divisions. So I am conflicted - ont he one hand, she was arguable one of the greatest Prime Ministers of the last fifty years. On the other, I saw the hurt and pain her decisions caused those who were least able to fight back.

Still, I mourn her passing, and wish her final peace.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby xtc » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:15 am

She also sold off our council houses leaving a budding crisis which is still having its effects.
She invited us to "rejoice" over the death of Argentinans when I was lamenting the death of a friend and medico.
Were we not lied to over the status of the Belgrano?

Just in case you think this is unbalanced, she also gave us soft-scoop ice-cream. If only she'd stayed as a scientist.

I can not mourn her but it is a tragedy for her daughter. Because she held out for a hereditary peerage, we now have a wanted international mercenary as the new Baron Thatcher. Good move, Maggie!
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

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Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby KP Presents » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:20 am

We could also add to that the strip mining of state assets to create the "loadsamoney" culture, and the Poll tax fiasco. As for the Belgrano, yeah I believe we were lied to on that.

Fro the record, I cringed when she said that all those years ago - I'm actually an Army brat, and let me tell yuo they weren't very happy about that either.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Chris12 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:48 am

I don't know enough of her term to judge on how it effected people but i know lots of people hate her!

Still, i think the iron lady should be respected if anything else. Respected by her neighbors and feared at home. I expect the history books will mention her quite a bit in the coming years.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Tieup1 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:00 am

She was a formidable politician, who was feared/respected, by other countries.
Some people are blaming her for the problems we have in the UK now. Which is typical of politicians, always blame someone else. I have to agree with the other posters, she did create a North - South divide, in this country, and some of her policies, hit the poorest in the community. Which hurt a lot of ordinary, hard working people.

People who are celebrating her death should remember, one day they too will die, I wonder what legacy they will leave. ?

I would have thought they should concern themselves with what the present Goverment is doing to this country, not rejoicing in an old ladies death.

Nor do I think she should have a State funeral.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby drawscore » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:40 pm

The "Iron Lady." Her most famous quote being "The trouble with socialism, is that sooner or later, you run out of other peoples' money."

Yes, as a former Prime Minister, she is deserving of a state funeral. However, if the Labour party prevents that, bring her body here. We will bury her in Arlington, with the honors she deserves.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Games_Bond » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:46 am

Thank you, Drawscore. That offer would save a lot of trouble. I didn't know she was THAT well thought of in the US.
I can't bring myself to find any happiness in the fact she has died, despite Frankie Boyle's (probably accurate) assessment of the situation when the State Funeral was mentioned a few years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzk6cxNRRUc
Mixed emotions all round. Love her or loathe her, you've got to hand it to her - she was decisive. The problem was, a lot of her decisions were bad ones. Margaret the Milk Snatcher, the Poll Tax, The Strikes - although she probably did the right thing in taking away powers from the Unions. She did a lot of good things and a lot of bad. As previously mentioned, the problem was that she improved life for some but those left behind suffered terribly.
As for Labour, I'm sure they will mourn too. I mean, the Scottish Labour Party must love her because she made the Conservative party totally unelectable in Scotland.
However, I am glad that she was in charge when the Junta invaded the Falklands (and South Georgia, which is somehow never mentioned). It sickens me that there were people willing to stand by and do nothing as our citizens suffered. As for the Belgrano, if she made it through that war telling only one lie, then I think that's a good record. We all know the Argentinians are completely honest with their people!

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby KP Presents » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:53 am

Games_Bond wrote:As for Labour, I'm sure they will mourn too. I mean, the Scottish Labour Party must love her because she made the Conservative party totally unelectable in Scotland.


One of the first things she did as leader of the Tory party was withdraw support for the 1977 Devolution vote, unless they introduced the 40% rule - that devolution coudl only happen if at least 40% of the total voting population of Scotland voted yes. In the end, the majority of those who voted voted yes - but it was only about 39% of the total who could vote.

And actually, the biggest winners of Thatcherism in Scotland were probably the SNP...
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Chris12 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:05 pm

I must say the people parying and singing ''Ding dong the witch is dead'' are kind of...disgracefull.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby xtc » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:16 pm

I agree and I hated the woman, or more properly, hated what she did.
The time to rejoice will be when all the effects of her evil administration have been remedied.

Don't forget: not everyone can be all-evil. Remember squirty ice-cream. Or was that a plot to poison our young?
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Chris12 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:28 pm

Actually i don't remember :big: Tell, tell.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby xtc » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:07 pm

Thatcher was, in her past lives, firstly a scientist and secondly a lawyer.
As a scientist, she developed the technique that allowed "Mr. Whippy" (Good name, that!) and others to dispense what could loosely called "ice cream" from a nozzle. Yes, ice cream lovers, it was her fault/her triumph.

Oh, by the way, anyone who can find Chumbawamba on the net might enjoy the "So long, Maggie Thatcher" song ( I can't rememebr the title). Last year it was very funny and most present at their concerts would have agreed. Now, however, is not the time to gloat.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby KP Presents » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:30 pm

xtc wrote:Oh, by the way, anyone who can find Chumbawamba on the net might enjoy the "So long, Maggie Thatcher" song ( I can't rememebr the title). Last year it was very funny and most present at their concerts would have agreed. Now, however, is not the time to gloat.


If you've ever seen the musical Billy Elliott, you will know the second act starts with a song called Merry Christmas, Maggie Thatcher, which expresses in very clear tems the feelings of the miners towards her. One line goes "We're one day closer to your death."

Last night, at the London show, the audience were asked if the song should be included or dropped as a mark of respect. the overwhelming vote was to include it - and I would have done the same. The song reflects how many felt, and still feel as you will have seen, about her.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Suestruggles » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:27 am

Remember that when she took over the country we had high inflation, rising unemployment and british manufacturing industry was collapsong having been paralysed by strikes in the 1970s. We were known as the sickman of europe. 18 years later there wre no coal, mines no manufacturing industry bbut falling employment, low inflation and growing ecconomy.
New labour spent 8 years saying boom and bust was over thanks to them then suddenly when everything started falling apart it was the fault of Mrs thatcher 10 years earlier.

Yes my memory is biased and i never worked in a coal mine but is my memory any more distorted than Gerry adams or George Galloway's.
Sue

Fit to be tied, wants to struggle.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby KP Presents » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:48 am

Suestruggles wrote:Remember that when she took over the country we had high inflation, rising unemployment and british manufacturing industry was collapsong having been paralysed by strikes in the 1970s. We were known as the sickman of europe. 18 years later there wre no coal, mines no manufacturing industry bbut falling employment, low inflation and growing ecconomy.
New labour spent 8 years saying boom and bust was over thanks to them then suddenly when everything started falling apart it was the fault of Mrs thatcher 10 years earlier.

Yes my memory is biased and i never worked in a coal mine but is my memory any more distorted than Gerry adams or George Galloway's.


Well, I would not say your memory is distorted, because essentially Sue you are right - there is no denying she put the country right in a lot of ways, just as there is no denying that had she not being in charge then the coal industry and other heavy industries would have failed at some point. Having said that, there is equally no denying that her single minded focus, necessary as it was, blinded her to the effect she was having on the ordinary lives of millions - or that in her determination to beat the miners and reform the country, she made the classic mistake of not having a plan of what to do when she had succeeded.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Suestruggles » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:53 am

I think we agree on some points. she succeeded in what she aimed to do. People suffered as she did it. what we will never know is whether the people would have suffered more or less had she not been PM for 11 years. personnally i do not believe had she not been in charge that we would have full employment and a manufacturing industry, what i can't say is whether the transition would have been more comfortable for those involved.
Sue

Fit to be tied, wants to struggle.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby KP Presents » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:53 am

Oh, and Galloway and Adams, like people such as Derek Hatton or Peter Tatchell, are coming at this from a very specific, very personal view which some may indeed share, but not all.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby vantran » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:39 am

KP Presents wrote:This news has being expected for some time - and I find myself conflicted.

I first heard of her as Maggie Thatcher, Milk Snatcher, when in the early seventies as Education Secretary she stopped the supply of free school milk to children. When she became Prime Minister in 1979, Britain was a country in crisis, and there was no doubting her strong leadership and the firmness of her convictions. There is no doubting her leadership during the Flaklands War was an inspiration to many many people.

On the other hand, I found many of th epolicies she pursued reprehensible in the effect they had on innocent people. I lived in the NE of England during the Miner's Strike, and while the enws covered the battles at the picket lines I saw the families forced to accept food donations. I saw the effect she had on those less well off, and I can give one prime example. When I first went to University, it was only made possible by the fact my fees were paid and I had a full grant to live on. Had I gone a few years later, I would not have been able to afford it.

I also saw, as time went on through the eighties, the way she had a "them and us" attitude that caused major divisions. So I am conflicted - ont he one hand, she was arguable one of the greatest Prime Ministers of the last fifty years. On the other, I saw the hurt and pain her decisions caused those who were least able to fight back.

Still, I mourn her passing, and wish her final peace.


She never wanted to recapture the Falklands. in fact, it was under her that she allowed the Argies to invade by reducing the defence there to a bare minimum and slashing the military

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby KP Presents » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:46 am

vantran wrote:
KP Presents wrote:This news has being expected for some time - and I find myself conflicted.

I first heard of her as Maggie Thatcher, Milk Snatcher, when in the early seventies as Education Secretary she stopped the supply of free school milk to children. When she became Prime Minister in 1979, Britain was a country in crisis, and there was no doubting her strong leadership and the firmness of her convictions. There is no doubting her leadership during the Flaklands War was an inspiration to many many people.

On the other hand, I found many of th epolicies she pursued reprehensible in the effect they had on innocent people. I lived in the NE of England during the Miner's Strike, and while the enws covered the battles at the picket lines I saw the families forced to accept food donations. I saw the effect she had on those less well off, and I can give one prime example. When I first went to University, it was only made possible by the fact my fees were paid and I had a full grant to live on. Had I gone a few years later, I would not have been able to afford it.

I also saw, as time went on through the eighties, the way she had a "them and us" attitude that caused major divisions. So I am conflicted - ont he one hand, she was arguable one of the greatest Prime Ministers of the last fifty years. On the other, I saw the hurt and pain her decisions caused those who were least able to fight back.

Still, I mourn her passing, and wish her final peace.


She never wanted to recapture the Falklands. in fact, it was under her that she allowed the Argies to invade by reducing the defence there to a bare minimum and slashing the military


What happened in the Falklands actually was an exercise in how ingrained the Civil Service was in the Old Boys Network - all the indications, and the recent release of papers seems to comfrim this, was the FO did not tell Thatcher of secret neogtiations over the islands, and it was incompetence on the part of senior civil servants which led both to the invasion and also the fact the first she knew was when it started.
Read stories of ordinary women in distress at http://www.kppresents.com

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby uemndlr » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:06 pm

drawscore wrote:The "Iron Lady." Her most famous quote being "The trouble with socialism, is that sooner or later, you run out of other peoples' money."

Yes, as a former Prime Minister, she is deserving of a state funeral. However, if the Labour party prevents that, bring her body here. We will bury her in Arlington, with the honors she deserves.


Why not offer the same for Hugo Chavez? As a president, he deserves a state funeral, too, doesn't he? 8)

I liked this one, though:
"We can have her funeral handled by the lowest bidder. It's what she would have wanted."
https://twitter.com/BenjiWilliamson/sta ... 2001041409

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby Chris12 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:33 pm

Yes, yes Chavez probably does deserve a state funural too. For all his problems and i assume there where many people did love the guy...well his own people at least.

I don't really see the need to compare the two though. Jezus and Satan would have more in common then those two.

Re: Margaret Thatcher dies

Postby drawscore » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:38 am

>>>Why not offer the same for Hugo Chavez? As a president, he deserves a state funeral, too, doesn't he?<<<

Venezuela will give him one, since he was a communist, and the country is run by communists. But if he is brought here, we'll give him a funeral he deserves. We'll bury him in a 10 foot hole, and erect an outhouse over it.

Drawscore