## History Lesson

Post by drawscore » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:20 pm

Prior to the 2016 presidential election, there were four other times when the winner of the popular vote, lost in the electoral college:
1824, John Quincy Adams defeated Andrew Jackson (Four years later, Jackson won)
1876, Rutherford B. Hayes defeated Samuel Tilden.
1888, Benjamin Harrison defeated incumbent president Grover Cleveland. (Four years later, Cleveland regained the presidency, making him the only man to serve two non-consecutive terms,)
2000 George W. Bush defeated Al Gore.
Other presidential trivia:
The longest serving president: Franklin D. Roosevelt, 12 years, one month.
The shortest serving president: William Henry Harrison, one month
Currently, the longest time one person may serve as president: 10 years.
Original inauguration day: March 4. (Changed to January 20 in the 40's)
Four presidents have been assassinated: Abraham Lincoln, James A. Garfield, William McKinley, and John F. Kennedy. There have been assassination attempts on Andrew Jackson, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan.
Fathers and sons who served as presidents: John Adams and John Quincy Adams; George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush.
Relatives: Benjamin Harrison was the grandson of William Henry Harrison; Franklin D. Roosevelt was a cousin to Theodore Roosevelt.
Drawscore

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Mask6184 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:40 pm

Intresting. Oddities have happened over the years with the President, but not often. This year is no different, for now.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by wataru14 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:20 pm

I love US history. There's a lot of fascinating stuff to find.
Outside of all this stuff, I'm an actor and have done two musicals based on the US Presidency (Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson and Assassins). I've played both John Quincy Adams and John Hinckley and character research for these two was a really interesting assignment,

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:42 pm

> drawscore wrote:Prior to the 2016 presidential election, there were four other times when the winner of the popular vote, lost in the electoral college:
> Drawscore

All the more reason to do away with the Electoral college altogether and replace it with something more sensible, such as ranked-choice voting.
http://acgov.org/rov/rcv/
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Chris12 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:21 am

> There have been assassination attempts on Andrew Jackson, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan.

If you mention an assassination attempt on Andrew Jackson you should at least mention one thing. Apparently Jackson nearly beat his attacker to death with his walking stick!
Both Roosevelds also suffered assassination attempt. Teddy got shot while giving a speech...and then went on giving that speech! Assassination attempts on FDR were considered particularly troubling because FDR wouldn't be able to bring himself to safety as he couldn't walk.
I also think its unavoidable that Trump is going to encounter an assassination attempt that's more serious rather than clumsy. We got ISIS who would love to assassinate a president, we have both disgruntled Democrats and Republicans and the pattern that populists generally have to fear assassination. The typical image is that the FBI and CIA are organisations with no oversight that would do whatever it takes to defend American interests and its prime place in the world. I don't buy it but there is a reason they are a suspect for Kennedy's assassination.

> The longest serving president: Franklin D. Roosevelt, 12 years, one month.

Also the greatest if you ask me, with perhaps having a competitor with only Lincoln. But that's just me.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by xtc » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:40 am

All the while there are constituencies, (counties, states, anything) there will often be a difference be tween the numbers of votes cast and the balance of the elected bodies. Even with proportional representation (single transferable vote would be my preference) there will not be true proportional representation unless ALL eligible voters count as one constituency. Such systems work elsewhere as long as there is a minimum requirement for a candidate to be elected. Given a countrywide constituency, though, any votes requiring less than a whole representative would probably be ignored in any case.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!
More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Boocola » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:16 am

George Washington was the only President of the United States of America to get 100 percent popular vote.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by drawscore » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:04 am

> Boocola wrote:George Washington was the only President of the United States of America to get 100 percent popular vote.

I might dispute that. In 1788, when Washington was first elected, the Constitution called for the person receiving the most votes would be elected president, and the runner up would be the vice president. John Adams had to get SOME votes, in order to become Washington's VP.
Drawscore

### Re: History Lesson

Post by drawscore » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:09 am

> Jason Toddman wrote:All the more reason to do away with the Electoral college altogether and replace it with something more sensible, such as ranked-choice voting.
> http://acgov.org/rov/rcv/

No, the electoral college was put in place for a reason. Without it, candidates would concentrate their efforts in the most populous states, and ignore the rest. The electoral college ensures a candidate has a broad range of support; not just the support of those living in large urban areas.
Drawscore

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:40 am

> drawscore wrote:

> > Jason Toddman wrote:All the more reason to do away with the Electoral college altogether and replace it with something more sensible, such as ranked-choice voting.
> > http://acgov.org/rov/rcv/

> No, the electoral college was put in place for a reason. Without it, candidates would concentrate their efforts in the most populous states, and ignore the rest. The electoral college ensures a candidate has a broad range of support; not just the support of those living in large urban areas.
> Drawscore

I hate to burst your bubble, but as I said candidates concentrate their efforts on certain states anyway. In fact, when the system was designed, almost no one lived in large urban centers; the country was over 90% rural! Granted, most of the elites of the time lived in or near one of the few major cities of the time just as they do now, but the general population was much more rural than is even possible to be in many places in the USA now.
Perhaps there are still a few pros to the current system but I think the cons greatly outweigh them in modern times.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Boocola » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:06 pm

> drawscore wrote:

> > Boocola wrote:George Washington was the only President of the United States of America to get 100 percent popular vote.

> I might dispute that. In 1788, when Washington was first elected, the Constitution called for the person receiving the most votes would be elected president, and the runner up would be the vice president. John Adams had to get SOME votes, in order to become Washington's VP.
> Drawscore

Dispute away, I checked Google before posting

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:21 pm

> Boocola wrote:

> > drawscore wrote:

> > > Boocola wrote:George Washington was the only President of the United States of America to get 100 percent popular vote.

> > I might dispute that. In 1788, when Washington was first elected, the Constitution called for the person receiving the most votes would be elected president, and the runner up would be the vice president. John Adams had to get SOME votes, in order to become Washington's VP.
> > Drawscore

> Dispute away, I checked Google before posting

Drawscore is correct in this case. George Washington ran unopposed and was elected virtually unanamously. Adams won the VP in a separate voting process where he beat out a number of other candidates. The first election wasn't conducted in quite the same way that subsequent ones after Washington have been.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Boocola » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:25 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > Boocola wrote:

> > > drawscore wrote:

> > > > Boocola wrote:George Washington was the only President of the United States of America to get 100 percent popular vote.

> > > I might dispute that. In 1788, when Washington was first elected, the Constitution called for the person receiving the most votes would be elected president, and the runner up would be the vice president. John Adams had to get SOME votes, in order to become Washington's VP.
> > > Drawscore

> > Dispute away, I checked Google before posting

> Drawscore is correct in this case. George Washington ran unopposed and was elected virtually unanamously. Adams won the VP in a separate voting process where he beat out a number of other candidates. The first election wasn't conducted in quite the same way that subsequent ones after Washington have been.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I can't rely on information that's really funny really it is, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:15 pm

> Boocola wrote:HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I can't rely on information that's really funny really it is, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I'm a little vague on exactly who or what it is that you are laughing at. Ican tell you though that i've knoen this since high school, as history is one of my strongest interests.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Boocola » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:27 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > Boocola wrote:HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I can't rely on information that's really funny really it is, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

> I'm a little vague on exactly who or what it is that you are laughing at. Ican tell you though that i've knoen this since high school, as history is one of my strongest interests.

I am laughing at myself for receiving bad information.

### !

Post by Jason Toddman » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:48 pm

> Boocola wrote:I am laughing at myself for receiving bad information.

I wish others could be so easily made to realize that they've received bad information. There's been a lot of that going around lately. That's how we wound up with a race between someone like trump and someone like Hillary in the first place. If there was not so bad bad information going around, it might have been Sanders running against some less far-right, more moderate Republican - if any can be found these days. But both parties are so completely out of touch with their voter base that either way we were going to have the worst president ever.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by drawscore » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:30 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_A ... nstitution

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:49 am

> drawscore wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I am perfectly aware that it would require the appeal of the 12th amendment, but in case you forgot such a thing is not unprecedented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteent ... nstitution
Remember what happened to the 18th amendment? It was cancelled by the 21st amendment. So why couldn't happen again with the 12th? Especially considering that the 12th is no more popular than the 18th ever was.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Oohmynameisblue » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:31 pm

The US voting system is confusing. But any ways more facts!
- The smallest president was 5' 4", James Madison. He weighed just under 7 stone (about 95 lbs I think).
- 3 presidents have died on Independence Day. Jefferson, John Adams and Monroe.
- 1 president was born on Independence Day - Calvin Coolidge.
- George H. W. Bush is the only president to have four names.
- Andrew Johnson, the 17th president was a tailor before becoming president.
- George Washington liked ice cream (use this information how you wish).
- Andrew Jackson was the first president to ride a railroad train.
I can't be bothered to do more.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:48 pm

> Oohmynameisblue wrote:- 3 presidents have died on Independence Day. Jefferson, John Adams and Monroe.

You forgot to point out that that the first two were signers of the Declaration of Independence and died not only on the same date but the same year; 1826, on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration's ratification (not signing; which took weeks and wasn't completed until early August).
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Mask6184 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:16 pm

> Oohmynameisblue wrote:
> - 1 president was born on Independence Day - Calvin Coolidge.

I find that to be ironic since the last time the size of government shrank was under his administration. After his presidency, the size of government has increased starting with Herbert Hoover, and has expanded since.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by drawscore » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:59 pm

for 120 years, presidents elected in a year ending in 0, either died in office, or were assassinated.
1840: William Henry Harrison
1860: Abraham Lincoln
1880: James A. Garfield
1900: William McKinley
1920: Warren G. Harding
1940: Franklin D. Roosevelt
1960: John F. Kennedy
Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980. He survived an assassination attempt
Drawscore.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Valimure » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:49 pm

This is also the first time Republicans have controlled all 3 branches of government since 1928!
Meanwhile, the Great Depression began in 1929.
HISTORY IS FUN

### Re: History Lesson

Post by truly_trussed » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:43 am

> Valimure wrote:This is also the first time Republicans have controlled all 3 branches of government since 1928!
> Meanwhile, the Great Depression began in 1929.
> HISTORY IS FUN

Actually the GOP had full control in 2000 with the election, er Supreme Court selection of President Bush. The Great Recession began in 2007.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by drawscore » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:16 am

> truly_trussed wrote:

> > Valimure wrote:This is also the first time Republicans have controlled all 3 branches of government since 1928!
> > Meanwhile, the Great Depression began in 1929.
> > HISTORY IS FUN

> Actually the GOP had full control in 2000 with the election, er Supreme Court selection of President Bush. The Great Recession began in 2007.

While the Republicans may control the presidency, and both houses of congress (Executive and Legislative branches), the third branch - Judicial -
is split 4-4 at the Supreme Court level.
Drawscore

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:32 am

> drawscore wrote:
> While the Republicans may control the presidency, and both houses of congress (Executive and Legislative branches), the third branch - Judicial -
> is split 4-4 at the Supreme Court level.
> Drawscore

Only for the moment; they now have a golden opportunity to rectify that situation.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Mask6184 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:35 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > drawscore wrote:
> > While the Republicans may control the presidency, and both houses of congress (Executive and Legislative branches), the third branch - Judicial -
> > is split 4-4 at the Supreme Court level.
> > Drawscore

> Only for the moment; they now have a golden opportunity to rectify that situation.

Not quite. Any appointments such as cabinet members and supreme court justices still need 2/3 of the senate for confirmation, in which the republican party does not have.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:45 pm

> Mask6184 wrote:
> Not quite. Any appointments such as cabinet members and supreme court justices still need 2/3 of the senate for confirmation, in which the republican party does not have.

True, but considering how often Democrats have caved in to the GOP lately, i'm not terribly hopeful of a positive outcome.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Mask6184 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:59 pm

> Jason Toddman wrote:

> > Mask6184 wrote:
> > Not quite. Any appointments such as cabinet members and supreme court justices still need 2/3 of the senate for confirmation, in which the republican party does not have.

> True, but considering how often Democrats have caved in to the GOP lately, i'm not terribly hopeful of a positive outcome.

Funny, I thought it was the GOP that caved in
I recall the shutdown over Obamacare where in the end, the budget favored the Democratic side heavily.

### Re: History Lesson

Post by Jason Toddman » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:50 pm

> Mask6184 wrote:
> I recall the shutdown over Obamacare where in the end, the budget favored the Democratic side heavily.

Quite so, but the Dems have caved on other issues such as making the ACA a single-payer system, insisting that Congress consider Obama's pick for the next Supreme Court justice, and a number of other issues. I never said the GOP always got its own way; but when it does it is always a disaster.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...