Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby random » Fri May 25, 2012 2:41 am

Voicing your opinion is fine. But why can't people respect others? It's not a war.
Life is too short to have regrets.
I may have a strong opinion at times but I respect yours and hope you do the same.
Check out my first story ./viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15159 Comments and suggestions welcome!

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby drawscore » Fri May 25, 2012 2:47 pm

Respect is mutually inclusive. If I express an opinion, and someone disagrees, fine. If they call me names, or make insulting or derogatory comments, would you not expect me to respond in kind?

I do my best to keep it civil. Sometimes I fail, and for that, I apologize.

Drawscore

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby random » Fri May 25, 2012 7:26 pm

Drawscore sometimes it's best to ignore it. If it gets really bad just report them and block them. Keep in mind I'm not just directing this to you, everyone else (including myself sometimes) are just as bad. I'm just sick of the insults on the person. Hence my signature.
Life is too short to have regrets.
I may have a strong opinion at times but I respect yours and hope you do the same.
Check out my first story ./viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15159 Comments and suggestions welcome!

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Games_Bond » Sat May 26, 2012 10:58 am

"Debating is fine. Arguing is not." So true, in the context I think random puts it.
For me as a philosopher, an "argument" means something different to me than it does to most people. To me, it is the sum of the parts of Premise and application of logical rules to reach a conclusion. So in that context, for me, argument is fine too. Debating is merely analysing another's arguments and forming one's own during a discussion.
However, when "argument" carries a meaning of going at each other with personal remarks (or, when held in person, shouting), then argument as random says is not fine at all. I have a rule: I will not be the one that turns a debate hostile. (Although, I admit, I am not above conveying certain tones and using such crushing arguments that will invoke hostilities from the other side). But generally, I will wade in politely, and hopefully the other side will recognise that they have my respect and will appreciate that. Of course, there has been the odd occasion where the other side has blindly ignored that respect and as a result lost said respect - at which point I "give it both barrels", as it were.
I generally avoid debates that could turn into hostile arguments. The reason being, I feel they are un-necessary and I have no time for them. I hate arguing with a member-of-my-family-that-I-won't-name, because that family member's modus operandi in any debate/argument is to shout louder and invoke a "whoever shouts loudest wins" tone to proceedings. It really doesn't matter that she's uttering complete b****cks, she wins because she's uttering it at ten decibels more than I can reach. In addition, she will interrupt, talk over and not listen to the other side. So she "wins" any argument with me, for want of a better word, by cheating. At least in written forums, that is not a problem. People can WRITE IN CAPITAL LETTERS to shout, but they can't interrupt, and if they lose their rag or resort to personal slurs, then as long as the audience is fair-minded, that will come across as desperate and they will lose.
But that's all supplementary information. Basically, if I wade into a debate, then I sure better contribute something positive to it. Otherwise, I feel, there is no point in me commenting. Kudos to random for addressing this subject, but I'm sure it has been brought up before and, I'm afraid, I am sceptical of the possibility that it will change anything. But we can live in hope.

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon May 28, 2012 12:10 pm

No argument here. :quirk:
Drawscore and I have had our 'tiffs', but hopefully that's all in the past.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby drawscore » Mon May 28, 2012 1:03 pm

In my four years of service, I rose to the rank of sergeant. A sergeant may be bullheaded, stubborn, opinionated, misinformed, or even abnormally stupid, but a sergeant is NEVER, EVER wrong. :-)

Drawscore

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon May 28, 2012 2:01 pm

drawscore wrote:In my four years of service, I rose to the rank of sergeant. A sergeant may be bullheaded, stubborn, opinionated, misinformed, or even abnormally stupid, but a sergeant is NEVER, EVER wrong. :-)

Drawscore

The way the service is organized, *everyone* rises to the rank of sergeant in four years. I did so myself... in three.
Didn't like being a supervisor either as I don't like having to tell people what to do (though being a magazine editor later wasn't quite as bad), so just as well I didn't stick around any longer than that.
Last edited by Jason Toddman on Tue May 29, 2012 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Chris12 » Mon May 28, 2012 10:10 pm

drawscore wrote:In my four years of service, I rose to the rank of sergeant. A sergeant may be bullheaded, stubborn, opinionated, misinformed, or even abnormally stupid, but a sergeant is NEVER, EVER wrong. :-)

Drawscore


.....yeah...you do know that kind of attitude lost a looooot of battles troughout the times? :D

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby drawscore » Tue May 29, 2012 11:35 am

No, that was them damn young and inexperienced second lieutenants that thought the sergeant was wrong. :-)

Drawscore

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Chris12 » Tue May 29, 2012 12:03 pm

You mean the guys that where proven right in the end? :lol:

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby drawscore » Tue May 29, 2012 1:18 pm

Sergeants are NEVER wrong. They, and their sea service counterparts are the backbone of the military. :-) Second lieutenants screw the pooch a lot, and it's their sergeants that have to bail their shavetail butts out. :-) "College educated" does not necessarily equate to having common sense.

Drawscore

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Chris12 » Tue May 29, 2012 1:47 pm

Everyone can and will be wrong once, Sergeants included. Disregarding the very option of being wrong is just arrogant and will bite you in the ass if you act like that in wartime.

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby random » Tue May 29, 2012 2:15 pm

People with authority are wiser than the inexperienced, however they too can make mistakes.
Life is too short to have regrets.
I may have a strong opinion at times but I respect yours and hope you do the same.
Check out my first story ./viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15159 Comments and suggestions welcome!

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby drawscore » Tue May 29, 2012 2:50 pm

Unfortunately, satire is more of a visual and aural medium. It does not lend itself well to the written word. Voice tone and inflection, and "body language," are integral parts of satiric humor. Nor is American military humor completely understood by those that have never served in, or been around, an American armed service.

Drawscore

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu May 31, 2012 2:35 pm

Translation: he was joking. :geek:
Which I believe btw, because that was my assumption all along.
Glad to know I'm not the only person on this board whose attempts at humor get misunderstood.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby drawscore » Thu May 31, 2012 8:28 pm

>>>Translation: he was joking. :geek:<<<

I thought I said that. :-)

Drawscore

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby random » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:57 am

Jason Toddman wrote:Translation: he was joking. :geek:
Which I believe btw, because that was my assumption all along.
Glad to know I'm not the only person on this board whose attempts at humor get misunderstood.


Sorry but when it's written I find it hard to figure out whether the person is being serious or just pulling the wool over your eyes. Sorry.
Life is too short to have regrets.
I may have a strong opinion at times but I respect yours and hope you do the same.
Check out my first story ./viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15159 Comments and suggestions welcome!

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:39 am

drawscore wrote:>>>Translation: he was joking. :geek:<<<

I thought I said that. :-)

Drawscore

You did, hence the "translation". I just said it more simply.

random wrote:Sorry but when it's written I find it hard to figure out whether the person is being serious or just pulling the wool over your eyes. Sorry.

I myself find it difficult to tell with other people I don't know very well. It happens. :quirk:
Some people are better at communicating their humorous (or serious) intent than others. With fiction or telling a story, I am usually pretty good at this (or at least so I am told); with straightforward comments however, I sometimes miss the mark. Drawscore... well... best not to speak for Drawscore. :lol:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby drawscore » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:10 pm

I am a BS artist, and proud of it. I can tell you to go to hell, and do it with language that would make you want to rush home and pack for the trip. :-)

Drawscore

Re: Debating is fine. Arguing is not.

Postby Jason Toddman » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:17 pm

Don't you dare! I don't need any more roommates! :twisted:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...