This site has really lost its greatness

Postby lkn4sm1lkme » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:31 pm

As I read through the "true" stories that are being posted, especially in the intimate section, I can't help but think, given the available evidence, that most of them are fictional. Fictional TUG stories are very fun, but they have no place in a TRUE TUG forum. I can attest to the fact that every story I've posted is 100% true to the best of my memory. I think it is degrading to those of us who DO have true TUG stories to share to have to try and weed out the garbage.

If a story is obviously fake (say, for instance, 3 girls who all go to school together and who just *happen* to all be sexy and bi and who just *happen* to tie each other up all the time and who just *happen* to have a mother who is also in to bondage who just *happens* to also be sexy and they all just *happen* to be running around in bikinis all the time...c'mon, folks), it should be banned from the site, or at LEAST forced to be moved to the fictional TUGs section.

Perhaps a voting system could be put in place wherein the readers decide for themselves the validity of the story? I don't know if that's the best answer, but I do know that I used to visit this site often, and now I hardly ever do, because I see that it is only getting worse each time I visit.

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby xtc » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:57 pm

I’m sorry (formally), but I’ve also posted a story, a surprisingly popular one, as a true story. All I shall say is that anyone who is stupid enough to deny its veracity won’t be getting any Christmas presents this year.

Come on, lighten up. Anyone who is daft enough to believe that all the “true” stories (with the exception of mine, of course) are actually true is probably stupid enough not to believe in Father Christmas.

Wassail!
Xtc

By the way, the Elves are getting very concerned that they won’t have any miscreants to deliver this year.
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Chris12 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:31 pm

If we had such a voting system i think it would scare new people off to even post in the true section to begin with.

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby drawscore » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:30 pm

I think the admins count on the honesty of the members to put their stories in the proper place, section, thread, or whatever. I think that some folks WANT their stories to be true, and so, post them under "True Stories," when, in fact, they belong in the "Fiction" section.

If it's a good story, I can't see that it makes a hell of a lot of difference. If it's piece of unbelievable crap, then some criticism might be warranted.

Drawscore

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Scottstud94 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:17 pm

As one of the... forum veterans... I suppose you could say, I see where he's coming from.

The art of great writing seems to have disappeared. I see great stories on here oh yes, but nothing like 2009-2010.

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Fesselfan » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:09 pm

About true stories...come on, who cares as long as the story is good. Peronally, I agree that a lot of "true" stories here are invented. But thats just my opinion. And in over 10 years of doing bondage, I have experienced a lot of things most people here would consider "faked" if I would write them down ;)
On the stories itself...I have to admit that I ceased reading most of them, so I cant comment on the quality. In part, its because some themes simply don't interest me (kids tying up, fanfics like "spiderman tied up" and so on) and in part because after all...some patterns always repeat in the stories, and after having read them dozens of time they dont interest me anymore. In part, it's because some areas have basically become "hey I want to see photos" and such things (wonder what google pics +zillions of bondage and tie up pics sites are for=
And, of course, in part because hey...when I want bondage I go and tie a girl up and don't read about it.
I still do enjoy the discussions on here, though :D

Cheers

FF
There are 10 kind of people in the world.
Those who understand binary numeral system, and those who don't.

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Chris12 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:07 am

Scottstud94 wrote:As one of the... forum veterans... I suppose you could say, I see where he's coming from.

The art of great writing seems to have disappeared. I see great stories on here oh yes, but nothing like 2009-2010.


Thats......true :( No offense to the writers we have now but i enjoy the older stories more. Maybe because at the time it was all new to me while now, i've kinda read it all already.

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby skybird137 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:40 am

I keep to writing request stories for ladies.

That way I hope that at least one person is interested.
Calling Fifty Shades of Grey a Bondage Story is like calling Titanic an Iceberg Movie...

http://skybird137.deviantart.com

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby drawscore » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:25 am

One other thing that discourages writers, is lack of feedback. When a story is posted and the author sees 50 or 60 hits, but receives just two replies or comments, it sort of discourages him from further efforts.

Negative feedback has the same effect, and while I have been guilty of doing so myself, it's usually on the technical side, as in using SpellChek, or double spacing between paragraphs. As a rule, I don't normally comment on the story's content, unless the comment is positive.

Drawscore

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby zanev » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:09 pm

Having members vote if a story or true is not still doesnt take away that people read it and that its posted. If you think a story is false then question the author. There is no way for us to make sure everyone is being honest.
I close my eyes, Inis Mona
And reminisce of those palmy days
I moon o'er you, Inis Mona
As long as I breathe
I'll call you my home

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Jason Toddman » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:24 pm

I'm one of those writers whose true stories are probably more often disbelieved or taken for fiction than accepted as the truth. But I don't really care if a person believes my stories half as much as I care whether or not they enjoyed them. Hell, I don't believe a lot of the True Stories myself, but if they're enjoyable to read, I don't care how true (or not) they are. But I'm fully aware that my own stories are probably doubted in their veracity more often than not... but I can't help that and I feel no need nor desire to prove any of them to anyone.
I fully agree with Drawscore (a rare event you may be sure!) when he says that lack of feedback discourages writers. It is, in fact, one of the biggest reasons that I have stopped contributing stories to this site myself lately. Some of them take a lot of time and effort to write, and it feels like a total waste of time when no one responds to them or all they do is make unsolicited suggestions as to what should (or should not) happen next in the story - the second part may not bother some writers but it bugs the bejeesus out of ME!
Fortunately, very few people have been unkind enough to tell me that my true stories are actually fiction (and even those few with only one exception were polite about it) and it *does* kind of hurt when people think you're a liar, so usually I just keep my opinions to myself. When I disbelieve a story I might ask a pointed question about something that seems impossible, such as someone claiming they were hanging by their wrists all night (something that I find by personal experience to be exceptionally hard to believe myself; I'd usually be wanting to get down after the first minute without ample additional support elsewhere), But I won't out-and-out call them a liar.
The only time I'll object greatly to the way a story is written (besides numerous grammatical or spelling mistakes) is when someone commits plagarism - stealing another person's person and claiming to be the author; otherwise, if a story is well-enough written, I don't care one wit if it is true or not.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby sarobah » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:01 am

Scottstud94 wrote: The art of great writing seems to have disappeared. I see great stories on here oh yes, but nothing like 2009-2010.

Chris12 wrote:No offense to the writers we have now but i enjoy the older stories more. Maybe because at the time it was all new to me while now, I’ve kinda read it all already.

If the great stories are the true ones, then by now they have probably all been told. Unless some of us spend an awful lot of our time playing TUGs, there aren’t going to be many new stories to tell.
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Jason Toddman » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:50 am

sarobah wrote:
If the great stories are the true ones, then by now they have probably all been told. Unless some of us spend an awful lot of our time playing TUGs, there aren’t going to be many new stories to tell.

Another complication is that many of the writers (whether fictional or non-fictional) from 2009-2010 have stopped writing or even coming to this site at all, while many of the newer members seem to either have no stories of their own to tell or wrote so badly (or briefly) as to be uninteresting. I have noticed a relative lack of interesting new stories here myself, but this is true of all categories not just the true stories. Even some of the best writers here (whether or not anyone incldes myself in that category) have stopped writing here so much; including Chris12 and xtc. In my case at least, lack of feedback is a big reason why. Another is being exhausted by requests to continue stories I feel are already finished or to write ones that I just don't have that much interest in doing. Requests can be flattering, but after a while they're also tiring... which causes me to stop writing at all.
I can't help but wonder if that is why others like Snobound or Chloroformmeplease have stopped altogether or at most just briefly appear somewhere to comment on something... worn down by their own success.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby TUfriend » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:46 am

Maybe it's because people have come to this site more to meet people of similar interests than to write which attracts people who aren't good writers. There's also a lot of stories that I think could have been good stories, but the writer just tells the story, not writes it so t becomes choppy, unorganized, and less exciting. Also, there are a few stories that have such atrocious grammar/spelling/punctuation that it makes it hard to read and some of those have potential, but are torn down by it. A few mistakes, or even a lot, but not excessive is fine, bt whn u desyid 2 drp randum leters, its all mos impossable too red.
Heil Toddman, the Wonderful Wizard of Odd
I'm a nerd with a dangerous side.

See my most recent TRUE story, "SPL Initiation", here.

Read my most recent FICTIONAL story, "The Birth of a Whovian", here

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Chase Ricks » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:04 am

I believe that the rping section holds some great stories in its specialized forums if members only have the patience to read all through them. We spend a lot of time working with our characters to make this a great site and in fact I have created my own spinoff stories based on adventures I have helped others write. While this may not be as interesting as reading the intimate or true tugs stories, I bet there are rpers among us who have not yet tried out the rp forums because they are afraid of how more senior members that regularly post there will treat them. if you ask anyone about how I rp on here, I am sure they can say I am not a normal basic one but that my characters really come to life.
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby sarobah » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:21 am

I confess that I am one whose output has gone down considerably in the last year or so.
I don’t have enough time to read many stories these days, let alone write my own.
For me, the chat areas have become the main attraction, which I visit whenever I can (although I generally avoid the “Jump in the Fire” section :o)
Words, like Nature, half reveal and half conceal the soul within.

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby bondagefreak » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:51 am

I agree with all the comments.
The vast majority of my favorite stories here are from a few years back and are collecting dust in the archives.
The reasons for the "decline" are all quite well depicted in this thread...namely, lack of sufficient feedback, repetition and the amount of mediocre content.
We have some excellent stories here and some excellent writers, but lots of the content coming up is lacking. What I find most common; writers trying to describe many different events and actions, with the least text possible.

Something that I have always enjoyed in Jason T's stories (one writer among many here who I appreciate), is the length of the chapters.
They allow for actual character development, important details and heavy description.

Many of the stories we are getting now, begin with a three or four compact clumps of text, filled with so much empty (no details or description) content.
Also, as was pointed out, large amounts of mistakes can prove to be a big put-off.


This is a case by case scenario, since every writer functions differently, but making a sticky post about ways to write a good story (ex: description of settings and characters, attention to details, avoid text-clumping and double check for grammar and spelling) might help some of our new writers post some higher quality content.

Am I straying too far from the subject ? :worried:
Image

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Jason Toddman » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:00 am

bondagefreak wrote:
Am I straying too far from the subject ? :worried:

Nope; I think you're spot on. Especially when you mention good points about MY stories! :big:
*Ahem!*
Anyway though, a tutorial aimed at readers in general (rather than specific ones) might be a good idea, but that would be about as far as I'd go. I've already tried helping some people improve their grammar and usually it's appreciated about as much as a slap in the face would be even when they ask for the help (and forget about offering unsolicited advice no matter how badly they need it; that's *never* appreciated!), so help aimed at specific people who need the help most is IMO a big waste of time and only causes hurt feelings. At least, when it's a socially inept Aspie like me who is trying to help.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby drawscore » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:02 am

Writers are strange ducks, and I say this from personal experience, having written a few stories that I have posted to the board. So, a few comments:

First, "Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of amateurs." We have a few people on the board that appear to me, to have written professionally, but many more for whom writing is a hobby. To the trained eye, and even to some untrained eyes, it shows. (My definition of a "professional writer," is a person who has written for publication, been published, and has been paid for his writing.)

Second, professional writers (and many amateurs) have a mindset, or a way of thinking. It can be summed up as "My writing is great, and everybody else's is total garbage." Of course, the other side of that, is "If you don't have confidence in yourself, no one else will."

The best storytellers are the ones that like what they are doing, and know what they are doing. If you don't like writing, or have no clue about how to use the language, in all probability, you will not be successful as a writer.

Drawscore

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Jason Toddman » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:10 am

drawscore wrote:My definition of a "professional writer," is a person who has written for publication, been published, and has been paid for his writing.
Drawscore

By that definition, do you really think we have any professional writers here? :quirk:
I'm not sure it's as easy to tell a professional writer as you seem to think. I've worked with various amateurs and professionals alike, and sometimes the amateurs are better than the professionals - at least, when it comes to writing NON-fiction. Fiction is much harder to write than non-fiction in my opinion, and there I think the difference shows more.
Sadly, by Drawscore's definition at least,I'm NOT a professional writer (unless being a paid editor/proofreader/occasional ghost writer for other writers counts) but I hope it's not been so easy for other people to tell that at times. But professional or not, writing (and drawing along with it) is one of the things I most enjoy doing.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby bondagefreak » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:45 am

I do not understand the link between professional writers and amateurs (non-professionals) in this discussion topic. The vast majority of writers here are non-professional and write as a hobby, however, this doesn't necessarily have a link to the previously mentioned "quality decline".

The site grows and attracts more and more users, many of them wanting to start out by composing text (whether Fictional or Non-Fictional). I am very much leaning towards the idea of composing a collective sticky post offering tips and guidelines about how to start off a good story.
As Jason mentions, some will not listen. But I am quite positive many new and not-so-new writers here, would benefit from the advice experienced ones here have to offer.

I believe it is safe to say that for the majority of our members here, what is most important in a story is for the readers to feel involved somehow. You cannot write clumps of non-involving text and expect readers to enjoy. I feel this is the issue we are dealing with here. Many of our new stories, start off with no setting description, no details, no content...just words. "He did this" "She did that"...etc
Loads of events and actions without detail, packed into one short chapter...this is not something many of us like to read. When I am looking for stories to read here, often the first paragraph or two, will tell me in advance if the story will be of interest to me or not. When I see undescriptive "detached" text in the first paragraph, I immediatly leave the story behind.

This is not a problem that will go away, but I believe we can, together, influence the quality of the stories we accumulate here over the next few years.


A sticky post should have as a purpose, to give advice about how to start out and develop a storyline and most importantly, to give advice on how to make the story interesting and involving for the readers....ex: cliffhangers, making out the characters so they become "real"...etc

Such a thread should also contain links to some of the forum's best stories.
Many writers learn and improve their skill, by paying attention to how more experienced ones write.

If a few of us put our minds to it, I am quite certain this can be achieved.
Of course, such a project would need backing/support from the moderation group.
Image

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby zanev » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:00 am

bondagefreak wrote:I do not understand the link between professional writers and amateurs (non-professionals) in this discussion topic. The vast majority of writers here are non-professional and write as a hobby, however, this doesn't necessarily have a link to the previously mentioned "quality decline".

The site grows and attracts more and more users, many of them wanting to start out by composing text (whether Fictional or Non-Fictional). I am very much leaning towards the idea of composing a collective sticky post offering tips and guidelines about how to start off a good story.
As Jason mentions, some will not listen. But I am quite positive many new and not-so-new writers here, would benefit from the advice experienced ones here have to offer.

I believe it is safe to say that for the majority of our members here, what is most important in a story is for the readers to feel involved somehow. You cannot write clumps of non-involving text and expect readers to enjoy. I feel this is the issue we are dealing with here. Many of our new stories, start off with no setting description, no details, no content...just words. "He did this" "She did that"...etc
Loads of events and actions without detail, packed into one short chapter...this is not something many of us like to read. When I am looking for stories to read here, often the first paragraph or two, will tell me in advance if the story will be of interest to me or not. When I see undescriptive "detached" text in the first paragraph, I immediatly leave the story behind.

This is not a problem that will go away, but I believe we can, together, influence the quality of the stories we accumulate here over the next few years.


A sticky post should have as a purpose, to give advice about how to start out and develop a storyline and most importantly, to give advice on how to make the story interesting and involving for the readers....ex: cliffhangers, making out the characters so they become "real"...etc

Such a thread should also contain links to some of the forum's best stories.
Many writers learn and improve their skill, by paying attention to how more experienced ones write.

If a few of us put our minds to it, I am quite certain this can be achieved.
Of course, such a project would need backing/support from the moderation group.


Make it and i'll sticky it.
I close my eyes, Inis Mona
And reminisce of those palmy days
I moon o'er you, Inis Mona
As long as I breathe
I'll call you my home

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:03 am

Being an old fart, I'm not sure what a 'sticky post' is, but all in all it sounds like an interesting idea. But if several different people contribute ideas, someone is going to have to try editing and collating it all; otherwise it's likely to be a rather chaotic (and likely contradictory in places) and unusable mess. It's probably something that should be planned out and co-ordinated thru PMs between the various contributors and made ino a cohesive and unified whole before being publicly posted. Or is that what sticky posts ARE? :?:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby xtc » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:28 am

As a former professional, are you putting yourself forwards as a co-ordinator/sub-editor?
Boxer shorts are cool,
but little speedos rule!

More by the same author: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22729

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:52 am

xtc wrote:As a former professional, are you putting yourself forwards as a co-ordinator/sub-editor?

If it's me you're asking, sure - I'm willing to give it a shot. At least it's something I know how to do.
But only to help... not to attempt to boss the project. Some kind of committee should probably do that, despite the reputation of committees. :big:
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Chase Ricks » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:01 am

I volunteer to help as well. But can only help when not swamped in rping.
From whence I came and whence I went heaven said I was too evil and sent me to hell. Demons and devils succeeded in breaking my soul.

Image

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby drawscore » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:40 pm

>>>By that definition, do you really think we have any professional writers here?<<<

Yes, I do.

Drawscore

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby bondagefreak » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:08 pm

It would be nice to hear from the original poster.
lkn4sm1lkme, what do you think of this latest development ?
We cannot change the issue of whether stories are true or not, but on the subject of website "greatness" do you think out plan has some merit ?


Hello Jason,
A sticky topic is just a topic that will be marked, prioritized among the others threads.
A sticky topic will always remain at the very top of it's section...even if it is old and has not been updated.
It could be titled: "Guide: How to write a good story"

My thoughts are that we can come up with a plan, put our thoughts and ideas together in a new thread.
One of us can assemble/put together all the tips and advice and after having the final draft confirmed by our participants, it can be sent to Zanev via pm, so that he can post it from his account, make it sticky and give credits to those who participated in its composition.

The sticky thread should contain ONLY that post and should be locked. Of course, Zanev will have final word in this...but I recommend we keep the resulting guide, clean and free of banter.
By presenting this sticky thread through his account, Zanev will speak for our group and our Guide will be seen as a community/forum project.

If we can come to an agreement on this or on another method of working, I am ready to begin immediatly. This is not a big project, but one that can be both fun for us and helpful to readers and site regulars.

If Zanev agrees, a mass pm notification can be sent to all forum members to let them know of the new guide.
Image

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby Jason Toddman » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:50 pm

bondagefreak wrote:
One of us can assemble/put together all the tips and advice ...

That's pretty much the role I'd like to volunteer for; I've done that sort of thing before with other peoples' projects.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

Re: This site has really lost its greatness

Postby bondagefreak » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:02 pm

Thank you Jason. It would be good to know if we have any other participants for this project.
If this is okay with Zanev, I would like to open a new thread tomorrow night where we can begin planning and working on the content of our guide.
Image