## Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Chris12 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:00 pm

It was war and the allies thought Germany really, really deserved it. There was also the hope that wreaking havoc across Germany would make the people realise what the Nazi's ideals was brining into Germany. Destruction.
The end justifies the means when fighting the Nazi's i'm afraid

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by FiAsKo_ » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:06 pm

There was a big problem:
in that time the GPS-System wasn't running. The pilots must look at landmarks (and at maps on paper!).
at night the best landmarks are the lights of the towns.
Be prepared!!! !! !!!
German head is putting german thoughts in English words!

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Scottstud94 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:40 pm

> footfan wrote:

> > Chris12 wrote:It was war and the allies thought Germany really, really deserved it. There was also the hope that wreaking havoc across Germany would make the people realise what the Nazi's ideals was brining into Germany. Destruction.
> > The end justifies the means when fighting the Nazi's i'm afraid

> How about the attack on 9/11 they said it was a result of American imperialism in the Muslim world

No comment. That's absolutely ridiculous.

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by mistofoleese » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:37 pm

> Chris12 wrote:It was war and the allies thought Germany really, really deserved it. There was also the hope that wreaking havoc across Germany would make the people realise what the Nazi's ideals was brining into Germany. Destruction.
> The end justifies the means when fighting the Nazi's i'm afraid

Quite true lets ALL take a moment to remember those brilliant lads who a few shorts days from now on sept 17th who dropped into NIEHMEGAN , EINDHOVEN and of course ARNUM its braves souls who fought on that day So many years ago and the battles to follow that We can site here in comfort stare at our computer screens and gripe about whats going on in the world today
If you dont know what happen on Sept 17th 1944 I suggest you go look it up the movie is pretty good too

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by tiedup24 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:02 pm

> Chris12 wrote:It was war and the allies thought Germany really, really deserved it. There was also the hope that wreaking havoc across Germany would make the people realise what the Nazi's ideals was brining into Germany. Destruction.
> The end justifies the means when fighting the Nazi's i'm afraid

Yeah, besides it's not like the nazis didn't had it comming, the british cities weren't the only ones bombed, many european cities where razed by the Luftwaffe (Bombing of Rotterdam, Siege of Malta) or by the nazy armies (The 2 sieges of Warsaw, the siege of Lenningrad)

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Chris12 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:37 pm

> mistofoleese wrote:

> > Chris12 wrote:It was war and the allies thought Germany really, really deserved it. There was also the hope that wreaking havoc across Germany would make the people realise what the Nazi's ideals was brining into Germany. Destruction.
> > The end justifies the means when fighting the Nazi's i'm afraid

> Quite true lets ALL take a moment to remember those brilliant lads who a few shorts days from now on sept 17th who dropped into NIEHMEGAN , EINDHOVEN and of course ARNUM its braves souls who fought on that day So many years ago and the battles to follow that We can site here in comfort stare at our computer screens and gripe about whats going on in the world today
> If you dont know what happen on Sept 17th 1944 I suggest you go look it up the movie is pretty good too

I think I do? Market garden?

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Chris12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:06 am

They where German civilians who voted Hitler into power, worked in his industries and could potentially be recruited in the German army which more or less happened in Berlin and the more they bombed the more German morale would sink. Sure its not right from a moral standpoint but from a tactical one its somewhat defendable.
WWII wasn't just war it was a total war which means anything a nation could use was fair game.

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by misterg792000 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:10 am

Firebombing Tokyo killed more people than the atomic bombs did. When you ask why war was made on German and Japanese civilians, all I can tell you is that it's for the same reasons we had seperate drinking fountains and Japanese internment camps; we were young dumb and ugly.

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by mistofoleese » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:05 am

> Chris12 wrote:

> > mistofoleese wrote:

> > > Chris12 wrote:It was war and the allies thought Germany really, really deserved it. There was also the hope that wreaking havoc across Germany would make the people realise what the Nazi's ideals was brining into Germany. Destruction.
> > > The end justifies the means when fighting the Nazi's i'm afraid

> > Quite true lets ALL take a moment to remember those brilliant lads who a few shorts days from now on sept 17th who dropped into NIEHMEGAN , EINDHOVEN and of course ARNUM its braves souls who fought on that day So many years ago and the battles to follow that We can site here in comfort stare at our computer screens and gripe about whats going on in the world today
> > If you dont know what happen on Sept 17th 1944 I suggest you go look it up the movie is pretty good too

> I think I do? Market garden?

Well for you yeah thats a given you LIVE there I mean for the REST of the folks

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Chris12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:22 pm

> mistofoleese wrote:

> > Chris12 wrote:

> > > mistofoleese wrote:

> > > > Chris12 wrote:It was war and the allies thought Germany really, really deserved it. There was also the hope that wreaking havoc across Germany would make the people realise what the Nazi's ideals was brining into Germany. Destruction.
> > > > The end justifies the means when fighting the Nazi's i'm afraid

> > > Quite true lets ALL take a moment to remember those brilliant lads who a few shorts days from now on sept 17th who dropped into NIEHMEGAN , EINDHOVEN and of course ARNUM its braves souls who fought on that day So many years ago and the battles to follow that We can site here in comfort stare at our computer screens and gripe about whats going on in the world today
> > > If you dont know what happen on Sept 17th 1944 I suggest you go look it up the movie is pretty good too

> > I think I do? Market garden?

> Well for you yeah thats a given you LIVE there I mean for the REST of the folks

Actually I didn't came up with Market Garden because I lived there but because you specifically mentioned Dutch cities and a movie (Its also the first thing popping up on google )

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Chris12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:25 pm

> misterg792000 wrote:Firebombing Tokyo killed more people than the atomic bombs did. When you ask why war was made on German and Japanese civilians, all I can tell you is that it's for the same reasons we had seperate drinking fountains and Japanese internment camps; we were young dumb and ugly.

I disagree. Stupidity wasn't involved in the decision to bomb the Germans and the Japanese. Vengeance against the nations that had sett the world on fire was involved to be sure but for the most part it was a deliberate, calculated action to break the Axis spirit and means of production rather then simple vengeance.
It was a ruthless and most likely evil strategy but it wasn't in any way dumb.

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Kyle » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:39 pm

Most bombing raids were actually aimed at military production sites, or at least industrial sites. But they weren't often careful about where the bombs fell.

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Fesselfan » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:48 pm

> Kyle wrote:Most bombing raids were actually aimed at military production sites, or at least industrial sites. But they weren't often careful about where the bombs fell.

Sorry, but that is plain wrong. Especially in the mentioned "operatiomn Gomorrha" the main goal was to destroy as many workers homes (and the workers within) so the industrial machine comes to a stop. The city quarters of Hamburg which took the brunt of the attacks where all workers quarters. One was so heavily bombed that it has never been rebuilt since; in fact, after the war a wall was drawn around it (and the corpses lying within) because no one could spare the effort to do something there.
I won't go into the details of reasons for WW2 here...but seeing one side as "shiny knight in armor" and the other as "demonic villians" only works...well, in cliche fantasy novels.
Cheers
FF
There are 10 kind of people in the world.
Those who understand binary numeral system, and those who don't.

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Jason Toddman » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:57 pm

> george1909 wrote:This event which killed over 40,0000 civilians has made me question the whole world war 2 story...ok Germany started ww2 however how did that justify the mass murder of german civilians in Hamburg and Dresden ?? The German air force hit strategic points in England hence most bombing was in the industrial region ...however the English and American bombs landed on civillian areas

Are you serious? Who do you think started bombing civilians first? German planes were bombing civilian sectors in London long before the British and their allies were able to retaliate in kind. And that's after all the destruction Germany caused to places like Poland even before then; their invasion of Poland is what started WWII! What goes around comes around.
The Japanese weren't too picky about who they killed either, so it would have been dumb for the Allies to have been too squeamish about inflicting civilian casualties as well.
War has never been a military-casualties only event. Civilians have been among the casualties of war from time immemorial. There's nothing special about WWII in that regard except for the sheer scale of the death toll because of increasing technology. In the case of WWII, it was us or them. It's as simple as that.
Dare to be different... and make a difference.
To boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before...

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by drawscore » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:41 pm

Despite our many differences, I have to go along with Jason on this one. Hitler rained down V-2 rockets on London and other populated areas, long before Dresden.
And, while the deliberate targeting of civilians/non-combatants is reprehensible in today's world, the thinking of the military brain trusts of the Axis and Allied powers in the early to mid 40's, was somewhat different than it is today. In short, you cannot apply today's standards to events of 70 years ago.
Drawscore

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Mister Mistoffelees » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Yeah, georgie, hitting the WHOLE DAMNED CITY OF COVENTRY WITH FIREBOMBS was "hitting strategic points." So was the London Blitz. So was the bombing of Rotterdam. So was the complete destruction of Warsaw. Jesus. H. Christ. On a crutch. Do you have a Hitler shrine in your bedroom, georgie?...
Welcome to Snowden! Enter at your own risk...

### Re: Bombing of Hamburg

Post by Chris12 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:59 pm

Oh, the Germans did bomb strategic points at Rotterdam, or rather one very big Strategic point. The entire city of Rotterdam.
Unlike with Londen almost nothing was left standing of Rotterdam's city centrum and the homes of 80.000 people where destroyed. It could be nationalism speaking but of the Nazi war crimes(The ones in not the treatment of civilians afterwards) I think Rotterdam stands out, mostly because unlike most of its enemies Germany didn't have a single ill feeling towards the Netherlands, we having been neutral in WWI and being a ''brother people'' and all that.