00:25 well hey everybody welcome back it's day
00:29 six you're going to be able to tell just
01:32 by how I look and sound as this trial
01:35 goes on the wear is going to become
01:38 increasingly
01:39 evident so I do apologize for that uh
01:43 hopefully I don't lose my voice over the
01:45 course of this well uh boy what a day
01:48 guys I like I have a hard time even
01:50 knowing where to start I just I have a
01:52 hard time even knowing where to start
01:54 there's uh there's just so much to talk
01:57 about I'll give you the 10,000 fot View
01:00 like I do uh today was all about the
01:02 crime scene today was all about the
01:05 crime scene uh pretty much from
01:08 beginning to end we saw lots of photos
01:12 so many
01:14 photos uh learned a lot about
01:18 the collection you know the the
01:21 examination and uh and collection of
01:23 evidence that was done at the
01:25 scene definitely have some uh have some
01:29 reactions to that I I I very much have
02:31 some uh have some thoughts about that uh
02:34 if you're on Twitter you may have seen
02:36 the exciting thing in my life was uh I I
02:39 I filed a motion in the case this
02:41 morning you know somebody needed to do
02:43 it somebody needed to do it why why not
02:46 me why not me so I filed it I filed it
02:49 so I did a a motion for Public Access I
02:53 requesting that basically the public
02:55 should be able to go in and and uh view
02:58 the exhibits on the same footing as the
02:59 Press which to me is just a
02:03 no-brainer no legal basis for for any
02:05 kind of Distinction there between uh who
02:07 who gets who gets access to information
02:10 and uh and so forth uh but I also took
02:13 it a little step further and I uh filed
02:15 a motion to request the audio recordings
02:17 of the hearings uh it's this is this is
02:20 just getting ridiculous guys it's
02:21 getting ridiculous this place is
02:23 becoming a [ __ ] show uh it's really
02:25 getting out of control starting to
02:28 become hard to void the conclusion that
03:31 it's by design that it's it's chaotic
03:33 like this because that is that's how she
03:36 wants
03:37 it and so that's how it's going to
03:39 continue to
03:40 be uh unless we can find some other way
03:43 to get people access to uh the
03:45 information and the the direct source is
03:48 is the best way to do it the recordings
03:50 are already being made they're already a
03:52 public record so they should be uh they
03:55 should be available as you know they're
03:57 not so uh
03:01 if you head on over to my uh substack or
03:03 to my Twitter account you can read that
03:04 motion if you're interested in it uh I I
03:07 I I didn't really hold
03:10 back yeah we're making a record we're uh
03:14 we're we're telling things how they are
03:18 here so I'm on 36 hours without
03:21 sleep and uh I'm going to have to pretty
03:25 much turn right around here and head
03:28 back to the courtroom if I uh want to
03:30 get in tomorrow so this is not going to
04:32 be a super long one guys uh there's
04:34 there's not going to be a ton to go over
04:36 anyway as far as the the details of of
04:39 what happened in court today because
04:41 like I said it's it's it was exhibit
04:43 after exhibit after exhibit after
04:45 exhibit um not not a ton of uh not a ton
04:49 of detail in the
04:51 testimony uh so I'm going to try to get
04:55 maybe a couple hours and then uh head
04:57 back over there you know what midnigh is
04:59 I don't know
04:00 and uh try to get some sleep on the
04:03 steps there this is the life
04:08 guys who would choose this right who
04:10 would choose this life well here I am so
04:14 uh let me go ahead and start with of
04:16 course the the really important stuff
04:17 that I know uh so many of you care about
04:19 uh Mr Ro Rosies on his tie watch uh he
04:22 he had a great tie today it was this
04:24 orange like Tangerine kind of orange tie
04:28 uh with a yellow diagonal strip stripe
04:30 on on it and he was wearing that on top
05:32 of like a very light baby blue shirt and
05:35 a charcoal gray suit it was quite quite
05:38 flashy it was quite eye-catching
05:41 wouldn't normally think you know orange
05:42 orange tie with blue shirt but uh really
05:44 pulled it
05:46 off uh Mr Allen was in h gray and white
05:49 stripes on his shirt today so I know uh
05:53 I know some of you are are very
05:54 interested in those in those kinds of
05:56 details don't want to let you down I'm
05:58 still not able to see the socks though
05:00 I'm I'm sorry it's just we don't we just
05:02 don't have the greatest view of
05:04 everything that's going on in
05:07 there so yeah start off with this
05:10 morning I got there at 5:09 at uh 4:09
05:13 this morning I would have been there
05:15 earlier uh as you may know from last
05:17 week I missed Saturday because I flew
05:19 back uh flew back home uh had to watch
05:22 my girl go kickass win her first fight
05:25 she did so amazing it was awesome I'm so
05:27 glad I went it was just a great
06:30 great event for everybody uh we had
06:32 several Fighters everybody won one of
06:35 our guys got fight of the night like it
06:36 was just uh it was it was a it was a
06:38 great
06:39 evening but uh that means that I was a
06:43 little short on time in sleep coming
06:45 back and I had this motion to write and
06:48 I had to figure out you know how this
06:50 whole e filing system and and so forth
06:53 so didn't uh didn't get out there quite
06:56 as early as I had anticipated I would
06:58 and uh at 4:09
06:00 I wasn't going to make it in wasn't
06:03 going to make it in I was too late this
06:04 isn't this crazy guys this is nuts I
06:07 mean it's this is really really nuts
06:09 it's getting
06:10 chaotic uh and it's starting to get uh
06:14 it's they're starting to be drama
06:16 starting to be drama so today's drama
06:18 the reason why I got in is because uh
06:20 Julie Melvin who's a local here uh in
06:24 the
06:25 community you know been been following
06:27 this case obviously since it happened uh
06:29 I met her the first day that uh that we
07:31 were here for for trial and uh you know
07:34 she's apparently watched my channel
07:36 likes my stuff thanks Julie appreciate
07:38 it and so she's got her daughter and uh
07:42 her daughter's boyfriend are line
07:44 sitting for her and uh apparently the
07:47 other person who was supposed to you
07:50 know who's who's getting the other seat
07:52 that that she had uh she was she was
07:54 getting saved uh didn't didn't show up
07:57 and so she had an extra seat and so her
07:58 daughter said you you got to give it to
07:00 Andrea so they did they came and offered
07:02 it to me well it made some people very
07:04 unhappy to see me going forward even
07:06 though it absolutely changes nobody's
07:08 place in line changes nobody's
07:11 position but you know it is what it is
07:15 so uh I did make it in the courtroom
07:17 thank you to Julie really appreciate
07:20 that uh that was uh that was very
07:22 generous of you and and also your
07:25 daughter and her boyfriend who were uh
07:28 enduring the cold and uh the hard
08:31 concrete sleeping in a crappy little
08:35 travel chair yeah that uh it meant a lot
08:38 to me to go ahead and uh and get that
08:40 get that option
08:44 so we started off the day with a deputy
08:50 Darren
08:52 janola Mr mclan doesn't ask the
08:54 witnesses to spell their names it's the
08:56 most annoying thing the other lawyers so
08:58 far have been very good about doing that
08:00 U but Mr M mcleland does not and so
08:03 again because it continues to be a
08:04 little bit hard to hear uh I'm kind of
08:09 doing you know doing my best at the
08:10 phonetics and as the day goes on kind of
08:12 get a better better better and better
08:14 idea of uh of who the who these people
08:16 are what the names are and stuff so
08:19 Darren Jin Cola um he is uh a detective
08:24 now uh but at the time on February 13th
08:27 of 2017 uh he wasn't on duty he uh was
09:31 on patrol he was on patrol shift at that
09:33 time he was on the night shift of uh 6 P
09:36 600 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. and he was not
09:39 scheduled to work that day but he uh had
09:42 seen on social media about the missing
09:44 girls and so decided he was going to
09:47 going to go in to help so we got in
09:48 about uh about 10 uh got in about
09:52 10 and learned it was Abby and Libby uh
09:56 he was at the jail first this was an
09:58 interesting piece of information that
09:59 came up first in his testimony
09:01 everybody's ears kind of popped up that
09:03 he he started off uh his
09:05 day when he decided to help out he went
09:08 to the jail went to the Sheriff's Office
09:11 and was looking at electronics that
09:13 belong to one of the girls but they were
09:15 locked and everyone went huh I thought
09:17 the phone I thought the phone was out at
09:19 the scene we learned later that it was
09:21 an iPad it was a it was a separate
09:23 device but so they had been uh trying to
09:26 get the record of Communications contact
09:30 things like that that might give them a
10:31 hint about where the girls had
10:34 gone so uh after he did that he was an
10:37 asked to go ahead and help with the the
10:39 physical search so went out to the
10:42 driveway that we've heard about that
10:44 goes underneath the Monon high bridge on
10:46 the South Side uh of the
10:50 creek he searched a little bit of an
10:53 area um south of there now this is this
10:56 is at night this is now um when he went
10:58 in it was about 10. M to do the the
10:01 looking at the uh the electronics and so
10:03 uh he's out now doing the search at
10:05 about midnight uh because it's so dark
10:07 they have a flashlight makes it very
10:10 difficult to see see very far um so it's
10:13 kind of kind of setting the stage for
10:16 how it would be really easy to miss
10:17 stuff out there uh out there looking
10:19 around in the dark so kind of contrary
10:22 to the the point the defense is wanting
10:24 to make that uh the girls couldn't have
10:26 been there because with this massive
10:28 search party going on uh they they would
11:30 have stumbled across it it kind of
11:32 sounds like I mean unless you pretty
11:35 much step right on something you you may
11:37 not see it under these
11:39 circumstances so he was out there in
11:42 that area for the search for that
11:44 evening uh the whole night until it got
11:46 called off about 2: in the
11:50 morning he went back uh the next
11:55 morning and there had been something
11:57 that uh that
11:00 stuck stuck out uh while he was there
11:04 this is actually back
11:07 backpedal guys you're going to have to
11:10 forgive me my brain is like not wired
11:13 correctly
11:15 after after everything we've gone
11:17 through in the last 36 hours still that
11:21 night while he's searching in the area
11:22 underneath the bridge uh he sees
11:25 something that catches in his attention
11:27 so he describes these like blocks of
12:30 concrete uh or Limestone or something
12:33 like that that are in a big pile under
12:35 there big sections so he's climbing up
12:37 on that to try to get a better look and
12:40 uh over on the side of the Hill he saw
12:42 what he described as a disturbance in
12:44 the leaves uh on the side of the Hill
12:46 that was exposing the be ground and it
12:48 seemed odd to him so uh he went to kind
12:52 of take a look and it's coming from the
12:54 end of the Monon High Bridge and going
12:57 down towards the left hand side
12:02 so we had several pictures of this and
12:05 it does it just looks like kind of
12:10 a just like a a a clearing like if you
12:14 know you had if you had a rake you know
12:16 you got you got the whole ground is
12:18 completely covered in in dry leaves and
12:20 twigs and stuff like that so if you like
12:22 kind of grabbed a rake and
12:25 just hit hit a spot and clear cleared it
12:29 all out uh that's kind of what it looked
13:31 like I mean it's just it's just this
13:32 little this little bare area uh right
13:35 there with no real explanation for
13:39 it so we saw yeah like five five photos
13:43 of
13:45 that uh he was with a fire department
13:48 somebody with a uh from the fire
13:50 department was searching with him uh
13:52 that's who pointed it out to him and so
13:55 uh they just made notice of it continued
13:57 to search uh until about 2 a.m. and then
13:01 called off the search so they went home
13:03 arrested and came back out at about
13:08 7:30 uh this deputy said he had no idea
13:12 at this point that they were
13:13 investigating a murder uh there's been
13:15 many cases like this where kids you know
13:18 just kind of kind of turn up missing and
13:21 so he's thinking oh it's a runaway or
13:23 they just they went to see a movie and
13:25 and you know wandered off that this kind
13:26 of thing happens but the kids usually
13:29 usually turn turn up uh so he showed
14:31 back up at
14:33 7:30 uh first went to the Sheriff's
14:35 Office and was tasked with contacting
14:37 the land owners in the area to get
14:39 permiss permission to be on their
14:41 property to to continue their search
14:44 onto the onto the private
14:46 property he then went
14:49 to uh he was heading to like a different
14:53 different part of the County Road um
14:55 we've heard about this 300 North that is
14:57 the road that goes pass the um who's
14:01 your Harvest store and gets you to the
14:03 freedom Bridge Trail Head uh connects to
14:07 Main Street I I can just tell you
14:09 because i' I've been in that area it
14:10 connects to Main Street and so you can
14:12 uh you can head back into downtown from
14:15 there so he was uh heading in a
14:17 different direction out on this County
14:19 Road because they had heard that there
14:21 were a whole bunch of trail cameras
14:23 somebody had trail cameras out on their
14:24 property and so they were going to go
14:26 ahead and pull the footage he was tasked
14:28 with going to get it
14:30 uh but on the way there he got a call
15:32 from uh Sheriff liot who called and told
15:35 him to go to the
15:36 cemetery so he went there and uh with
15:40 Deputy Yoder who we haven't heard from
15:42 yet but I'm sure we will
15:43 soon they walked uh or maybe he was on
15:47 Saturday he might have been on Saturday
15:49 I forget because I wasn't there Saturday
15:51 I did by the way watch the um recap with
15:54 lawyer Lee it was awesome so thank you
15:57 lawyer Lee for that um but I don't
15:59 remember the names I don't remember if
15:01 Deputy Yoda was was one of the ones who
15:02 talked on on Saturday I think he might
15:04 have been so they walked from the
15:07 cemetery down uh into the woods and uh
15:11 described it as a very steep wooded area
15:14 down towards the creek and as he was on
15:16 his way down he passed a woman coming
15:18 back up who was very distraught so he
15:21 walked straight towards the creek from
15:24 uh the southeast like Southeast corner
15:26 of the
15:28 cemetery and so it would be on the far
16:31 side of this Ravine that um some of the
16:34 other folks have described Derek German
16:36 described this Ravine as being kind of
16:38 the furthest he could go when he was
16:41 searching the woods uh starting from the
16:44 bridge and the Bridge Trail because it
16:46 was too steep to
16:49 cross he walked straight down to the
16:52 creek uh and did not see the girls uh
16:55 but he was notified that the girls had
16:57 been found he got to the Water's Edge
16:60 and was able to see four people over on
16:02 the North side uh a couple people
16:05 directly across from him uh on the south
16:08 side when he was at the creek everyone
16:11 was pointing into the water and in the
16:13 water he saw a multicolored shirt and a
16:16 tennis shoe that was uh stuck in the
16:18 roots of trees over on the creek creek
16:21 bank but still uh in the
16:24 water so we saw photographs of that as
16:27 well of uh just kind of his uh his line
17:32 of sight from uh from his his
17:34 perspective
17:36 there so he was hollering they were
17:38 hollering back and forth uh across the
17:41 creek with uh with the people down there
17:43 and somebody on his side of the creek on
17:45 the North side um believed that the
17:47 bodies had been found behind them but he
17:49 hadn't seen them on the way down so uh
17:52 from his vantage point he could see a
17:55 whitish color that he could stood that
17:58 kind of stood out but he couldn't make
17:59 out make out what it was so he
17:01 approached and there he saw it was uh
17:03 the bodies of both girls they were both
17:06 deceased uh one was nude and one was
17:08 clothed and he recognized them from the
17:11 photos that had been circulating they
17:13 both had uh large lacerations to their
17:16 throat the deputy is very um he's he's
17:20 worked up when he's describing this
17:22 testimony he's having to take deep
17:25 breaths you can just tell that
17:27 remembering this he's
17:30 you know he's he's got a clear memory of
18:31 it and it is not not something he is
18:33 enjoying reliving at
18:35 all uh he says there's a substantial
18:37 amount of Blood on the bodies and
18:42 underneath he got to within about 10
18:44 yards uh of the bodies there was nobody
18:47 nearby he did not do any life-saving
18:49 measures because it was obvious that it
18:51 was not it would be
18:53 feudal uh when he described his walk
18:56 down the creek the path that he took uh
18:59 it was was
18:60 about between 30 to 40 yards away from
18:03 where the girls were ultimately found so
18:05 it was about half a football field third
18:07 of a football field uh to The Far Side
18:10 of um of that
18:12 Ravine and then we later heard that it's
18:16 not too far from the creek maybe 40 50
18:18 ft uh back from the
18:21 creek
18:23 so Mr Yoder was taking down the names of
18:26 the people that were in the area uh Mr
19:30 got to look up his name again to
19:32 remember how to pronounce it Gian Gian
19:35 Gian Cola I think it's an Italian name
19:37 gianca gianca something like
19:40 that uh he had phone service so he
19:42 called uh liot told him uh and then he
19:46 stood by to make sure that nobody
19:48 wandered through onto the scene uh
19:50 nobody got closer he says on his watch
19:53 than within about 10 yards the troopers
19:55 were the first to arrive they got there
19:57 within minutes and then um
19:60 and then uh they began to they started
19:03 like a crime scene log um they put up
19:06 crime scene tape to seal the area you
19:08 know the things that they should have
19:09 done in the Karen Reed case that we
19:10 heard about that they didn't do yeah
19:12 these these guys were on it within you
19:13 know probably 90 seconds or so within
19:16 minutes he
19:17 said and so after the crime scene tape
19:20 was up uh nobody entered beyond that uh
19:22 we heard over the course of the day that
19:24 they taped off a very large area like
19:27 much larger than just where uh like
19:30 right next to where the bodies were and
20:32 that that's basically what they're
20:34 trained to do to make sure if there's
20:36 things in the area they don't they don't
20:37 you know they don't want to overlook it
20:39 they want to have plenty of room to make
20:40 sure that they get everything uh that's
20:43 going to be
20:48 relevant he said that you would be able
20:52 to uh access that scene by uh crossing
20:55 the water and so he ended up staying at
20:58 his po there all night uh until around
20:01 8:00 or 900 p.m. the next day when
20:03 somebody came in to relieve him so
20:05 nobody came through there was no traffic
20:07 on the driveway uh nobody crossed the
20:10 creek uh either this the state or the
20:13 defense with most of these law
20:15 enforcement Witnesses is now eliciting
20:17 whether they were carrying a firearm and
20:19 if so what it was so he uh indicated he
20:22 was carrying uh his issue firearm which
20:26 was a Glock 1779 millimeter he said that
21:30 they had just recently the department
21:32 had just recently switched to that gun
21:35 uh before that it was uh it was he
21:37 didn't specify what it was um so all the
21:40 officers now have this Glock 179 mimer
21:42 that's their that's their Duty weapon
21:44 and that that had been uh within the
21:46 last year that that switch had taken
21:49 place Mr Baldwin did the cross-
21:52 examination uh he wanted to emphasize
21:56 how steep the area was uh where uh
21:02 Deputy uh got to look at it
21:06 again Gian gianola Deputy gianola where
21:10 he'd seen that disturbance um so you
21:13 come off the end of the bridge and over
21:15 there to the left hand side and it's and
21:16 it's kind of right up there at the top
21:18 uh it's very steep Mr baldman wanted to
21:20 emphasize this is a very steep area like
21:23 you would need to use your hands to hold
21:24 on to uh trees and stuff like that in
21:27 order to get yourself down uh very high
21:30 risk that that you would probably
22:34 fall the other side is not as steep um
22:37 or at least that that that is what was
22:39 suggested um so uh he was surprised to
22:44 see the marks Deputy Deputy janca was
22:46 was surprised to see them they he just
22:48 hadn't I think expected to see that uh
22:52 there had been marks uh underneath the
22:54 leaves and the
22:56 dirt and uh we we heard later from a
22:59 different witness that these uh may have
22:01 been some Footprints and that they may
22:04 have been footprints that appeared to be
22:06 consistent with I believe it was Libby
22:09 uh Libby's shoes one of the girl shoes
22:12 I'll I'll I'll verify that when I get to
22:14 that
22:19 point he uh elicited Mr Baldwin elicited
22:22 that uh Deputy jonle I remember had been
22:25 on his way to collect the the trail
22:27 camera videos uh when he was called to
22:30 to go to the to the cemetery so he asked
23:33 if he ever he ever Then followed up and
23:35 went and got it he did not so I don't
23:38 know if anybody ever did go and get that
23:40 trail camera video but it does not sound
23:43 promising it sounds like that was um
23:45 just kind of
23:50 left he said that uh people on the
23:53 opposite side of the creek uh saw the
23:56 shirt so I think he means on the south
23:57 side of the creek
23:60 uh where like if you cross the bridge
23:02 and go down over on that side uh they
23:05 had seen the shirt it was right off the
23:06 bank from where he was on the North
23:11 side he said uh he just described the
23:14 scene a little bit more seeing
23:15 substantial blood around both of them uh
23:18 Libby had it uh all around all on and
23:22 around her Libby had it around her he
23:24 said he or Abby had it around her he
23:26 said he didn't remember if he saw um
23:29 saw any blood on aby's body her clothing
24:32 appeared to be wet though uh there
24:34 wasn't like you know a c off point like
24:37 a line where it went from wet to dry
24:39 where it would be really obvious uh but
24:42 just notice that uh the pants appeared
24:45 to be
24:49 wet they asked him uh because I think
24:53 because he had been able to make that
24:55 phone call to Li it in that area they
24:57 asked him what is his uh cell phone
24:59 carrier was he didn't remember if uh
24:02 they used if he was using his personal
24:05 cell phone or his work cell phone his
24:08 personal cell phone carrier was AT&T
24:11 which is interesting because that's the
24:12 same carrier that you know we heard that
24:14 that Libby used Libby's
24:17 phone and he did not recall specifically
24:21 for the Sheriff's Office it was switched
24:23 at some point to um I I didn't quite
24:26 catch the name verse verse vers or
24:29 something that's like a subsidiary of
25:31 AT&T but he didn't know when that uh
25:34 switch had taken place so he couldn't
25:35 remember what the carrier was at that
25:37 point in time but interesting it would
25:39 be if it was on his personal phone it
25:41 just goes to that argument that if the
25:44 girls phones weren't able to connect uh
25:46 it's because you know it's because they
25:49 they it wasn't because of a problem with
25:50 the signal in the area
25:54 um uh
25:60 they want
25:01 to they did this with several witnesses
25:03 make a point of establishing that the
25:05 area where the girls were found uh is
25:07 not perfectly flat it's kind of like
25:10 this undulating area where you you um
25:13 they described it where you come down
25:15 from the cemetery and it's it's
25:16 initially quite steep uh and then you
25:19 you hit an area and and it's kind of
25:21 like you have a series of like step offs
25:24 where it's it's high and then it's low
25:26 and then maybe it goes high again uh so
25:28 it's it's not perfectly flat by by any
26:31 means uh it is still above the the grade
26:36 of like the the level of of where the
26:38 water was the elevation of the water uh
26:41 and so in this kind of up and down uh
26:43 the girls were in a dip they they were
26:46 in a low part of the
26:49 ground the jury is who asked the
26:51 question the jury did ask some questions
26:54 today uh so they offered two questions
26:57 uh to deputy janola uh only one of them
26:00 was asked one was not asked and so the
26:02 question that was asked was you said
26:04 Electronics were being being viewed
26:06 before the search what what were the
26:09 items what were these electronic items
26:11 and so that's when he clarified it was
26:13 an iPad that it was locked uh and they
26:16 were able to see numbers on it that they
26:19 they were then they then called those
26:20 numbers and it ended up being being
26:22 Libby's family
26:24 members so uh looks like it was just
26:27 kind of
26:29 reporting the same information that
27:31 maybe would have been maybe would have
27:32 been available on her
27:34 phone second W witness was Sergeant
27:37 Jason paage he was one of the crime
27:40 scene investigators with the uh Indiana
27:42 State Police so we heard from three of
27:44 the crime scene investigators today and
27:47 they described their job document the
27:49 crime scene collect the evidence secure
27:52 the evidence store the evidence uh and
27:54 so they go through training for that and
27:57 they're basically they have kind of a
27:59 relationship with the lab they work with
27:01 the the laboratory very closely they
27:03 typically transport the stuff that they
27:06 collect uh that's going to need need
27:08 testing and things like that they
27:09 transport it to the lab so they work
27:11 closely with the analysts and with u
27:13 folks like the forensic pathologist and
27:15 stuff to kind of get a sense of what
27:17 should you collect and what's going to
27:19 be helpful and and fruitful and so
27:25 forth sergeant paig said he's processed
27:28 probably somewhere between 950 and 100
28:30 scenes and that's just as a as a crime
28:32 scene investigator not uh including some
28:34 time that he spent as a
28:36 detective so he went out on February the
28:41 14th uh he was contacted to uh ask for
28:45 assistance so this is after the girls
28:47 had been discovered he was not uh part
28:50 of the
28:52 search so he arrived about uh 1:30 in
28:56 the
28:57 afternoon and uh parked at the cemetery
28:60 describes kind of same thing walked down
28:02 a steep hill uh and found the crime
28:06 scene uh crime scene barrier tape lot of
28:09 officers present but not not within the
28:11 perimeter uh and ran into the the two
28:14 other two other crime scene
28:16 investigators uh inside the barrier tape
28:19 he described was about the size of a
28:21 football field so you know like I said
28:23 large area that they blocked
28:26 off what they did then was um and in
28:30 fact Deputy janula had had described
29:32 this they had this yellow rope that they
29:35 tied around a tree kind of at the edge
29:37 of the perimeter and then as they would
29:39 walk into any area they'd be watching
29:42 watching the ground you know looking to
29:44 see if there was anything there uh that
29:47 needed to be collected or monitored or
29:50 anything and uh as they continued they
29:55 would string the Rope like to another
29:57 tree to kind of follow their path and so
29:59 then that way that would tell them
29:01 basically where it's safe to walk that
29:03 it's if you walked along this rope that
29:05 area has been cleared you're not going
29:06 to um you're not going to step on
29:08 anything or or taint something or
29:11 anything in the inside uh perimeter
29:15 around where the bodies were they
29:17 described uh they described this as
29:18 ground zero and so this was this is just
29:22 right around uh right around the areas
29:24 where the girls were
29:25 found so that's when we started getting
29:28 started getting photographs we got
29:29 photographs of the scene we got
30:32 photographs of um diagrams that were
30:35 were prepared I tried I'll show you I'm
30:39 a terrible artist I tried to kind of
30:42 copy the
30:43 diagram um it it showed where the girls
30:47 were oriented where the sticks were
30:50 placed there were two trees on the
30:53 diagram that he noted and then uh two
30:57 large larger pools of blood and then
30:01 some small like driplets and and
30:03 droplets and things like that and then
30:06 the last thing that was marked uh on
30:08 this uh on this diagram was a just area
30:12 he described as like a disturbed area so
30:15 the again the leaves had kind of been
30:16 moved and and uh the be the be ground
30:19 was
30:22 there and then yeah we saw we saw lots
30:26 of lots and lots and lots and lots and
30:29 lots of photos lots of
31:32 photos it's not pretty really really
31:35 really really not pretty not pretty at
31:38 all so uh the way the way the scene was
31:42 was laid out uh liby Libby was nude both
31:47 of the girls were on their backs uh
31:50 Libby
31:51 was like almost almost crammed next to a
31:56 fairly large tree it was like a twin
31:58 tree and know one that has a twin trunk
31:60 so it's got a very fat trunk her head is
31:02 down at the base of the
31:04 trunk there's a very very very large
31:07 tree limb
31:09 like
31:10 15 feet plus long 4 in diameter maybe I
31:15 mean this is this is a big limb uh that
31:19 is kind of along the side of her body so
31:24 uh her left hand her left hand is up in
31:27 the air uh her right hand is
32:31 down and
32:36 uh and her her throat is cut her throat
32:39 is cut
32:42 um yeah really really
32:49 unpleasant uh Abby uh Abby was clothed
32:53 we saw photos of Abby uh later on they
32:57 didn't take so many photos of Abby at
32:58 this point in time uh they they express
32:02 that the reason why is because uh since
32:04 Libby was nuded it was easier to see did
32:08 she have injuries did she have debris
32:11 did she have you know signs of um like
32:15 where where there might have been places
32:18 where evidence could have you know could
32:20 have
32:22 landed uh and so they basically just
32:24 decided to process her and then uh look
32:28 looked at looked at Abby second because
32:30 the clothing made it harder to see you
33:32 know the debris and things like
33:35 that uh let me give you my observations
33:38 there there were some uh some notable
33:42 characteristics I thought about um about
33:47 about the
33:49 bodies and so what stood out to me was a
33:53 couple of uh blood stain p patterns uh
33:59 on
33:01 Libby the first one
33:04 was what appeared to be blood flow from
33:08 her neck going down her face so kind of
33:12 upside down uh it's not not flowing in
33:16 the direction if she was upright and you
33:19 know and it would just flow it was like
33:22 towards her eyes towards her nose
33:25 towards her
33:26 mouth on her right thigh there were
34:32 several uh droplets droplets of blood
34:36 that had then
34:37 run uh and they had run perpendicular to
34:41 her leg so not again not like it falls
34:44 down your body and then gravity takes it
34:46 down and it's parallel with with the
34:48 line of your leg it was going the other
34:50 way it was across across her
34:53 leg so to me these were very indicative
34:57 of movement um you know at at at at a
34:00 bare minimum this was this was
34:02 indicative of of
34:05 um these bodies were not in the position
34:09 that uh they were found in the girls
34:11 were not in the position Libby was not
34:13 in the position she was found in uh when
34:15 when the blood was moving the way it was
34:18 uh to create these these
34:21 patterns uh Libby had quite a lot of
34:23 blood on her she had blood on both of
34:24 her hands she had like a bib almost
34:28 coming down uh from from her throat uh
35:32 she had some blood on the bottom of her
35:33 foot blood on her legs blood between her
35:36 legs um when she was turned over she had
35:39 blood on her
35:41 backside uh Abby by contrast was almost
35:46 uh perfectly clean uh her hands her
35:49 hands when she was found uh they were
35:52 tucked into the sweatshirt and they were
35:54 in a posture kind of like like this like
35:57 the
35:58 uh Deputy described it almost as like a
35:01 like a defensive fighting posture like a
35:03 like a high
35:05 guard so her hands had been inside uh
35:08 inside the sweatshirt uh but they pulled
35:11 the sleeves down to to inspect her and
35:13 her hands are pristine there's no dirt
35:17 there's no blood um they review like her
35:21 torso you know lift lift the shirt shirt
35:23 up to look at look at the condition of
35:25 her torso pristine clean
35:28 nothing on
35:30 it uh the only place there really was a
36:34 little bit of uh dirt on Abby was uh on
36:38 her foot she was wearing I believe one
36:42 shoe and uh the shoe was was partially
36:45 off her foot uh and so uh she had a
36:48 little bit of like dirt in in the the
36:51 leaf debris twig debris things like that
36:54 uh on on her
36:56 foot she had some some blood on her face
36:59 as well and uh very very horrifying
36:03 wound uh on on the left side of of her
36:09 neck um I will
36:15 say couple other things odd about this
36:19 scene uh you may have heard about the F
36:22 tree uh there's a
36:24 tree that uh the way the way the scene
36:27 is positioned the girls um the girls are
37:30 kind of in a V shape with respect to
37:34 each other where their feet are closer
37:35 but their uh their heads are further
37:38 apart they're four or five feet apart
37:42 from each other like you know pretty
37:44 pretty
37:45 close to the kind
37:51 of 2:00 maybe from aby's feet uh there
37:55 is a tree and this tree has blood stains
37:59 on it it has blood marks on it there's
37:01 one blood Mark described as very high
37:04 and that is on the opposite side of the
37:05 tree from where the girls bodies are
37:08 found there's a second uh blood stain
37:12 that's about halfway uh halfway down the
37:14 the trunk from from the first blood
37:16 stain halfway down towards the ground uh
37:19 it's on the side of the
37:21 tree so this is just a little bit odd
37:24 too because had the girls had the girls
37:27 you know been killed in this spot uh
38:30 there's no way for the blood to get to
38:32 the opposite side of the tree uh some
38:34 somehow you know that got transferred
38:36 there whether it was by uh a
38:39 hand something else whether it was
38:41 deliberate or accidental you know who
38:44 who knows at this
38:47 point there was
38:50 not from my
38:52 perspective there was not nearly as much
38:55 blood at the scene as I would expect if
38:57 they had been killed there given how
38:59 they were killed the nature of their
38:01 injuries um only Serious injury either
38:04 of them had was these was these you know
38:06 cuts to the throat so we haven't heard
38:09 the autopsy yet but pretty sure we're
38:12 going to have a cause of death that's
38:13 going to be exanguination or it's going
38:15 to be you know
38:18 um I'm not sure what you would call that
38:21 it's just inability to breathe and loss
38:23 of oxygen and and brain death and stuff
38:25 but there's going to just be massive
38:27 blood loss
38:28 from these
38:30 injuries the human body average human
39:32 body contains what something like seven
39:34 liters seven liters of blood I mean it's
39:37 it's a really massive amount
39:39 um I've never seen I will I will say
39:42 this I've never seen uh crime scene
39:44 photos uh of of this type in in outdoor
39:48 scene like this uh I've seen quite a few
39:51 of them indoors like on carpet and stuff
39:55 that you would think okay well it's it
39:59 might it might soak some up you know and
39:01 so you would you you wouldn't
39:02 necessarily have like a large puddle
39:04 large pooling stuff like that no it does
39:07 it just does like blood is thick it
39:11 really doesn't seep well into stuff this
39:14 ground surface like I said this is all
39:17 dried leaves and and twigs and stuff
39:20 this is not I mean and like a thick a
39:22 pretty thick cover so this is not um
39:27 particular
40:31 uh you know I'm I'm losing my words here
40:34 it's just it's not going to it's not
40:36 going to absorb it's not very
40:39 absorbent uh so I I would I would have
40:43 expected substantially more blood than
40:46 there was at this scene uh the the state
40:49 is is clearly focusing on uh the largest
40:53 uh blood spot in in this area is B
40:58 basically between and like 12:00 from
40:02 the the feet of both of the
40:05 girls it's hard to tell from the
40:08 photographs at this point uh exactly how
40:11 large it is of course you can't tell you
40:13 know how how far it seeped into the
40:15 ground or anything like that but I I do
40:17 notice it doesn't there's not like
40:20 congealing or or or or stuff like like
40:23 you know puddle puddles puddles of blood
40:25 will congeal uh it gets pretty
40:29 gross so it's hard to estimate the size
41:32 of this puddle but if I were going to
41:34 guess I would say it looks it's roughly
41:36 the size of um like a like a tea towel
41:40 you know not not like a fullsize bath
41:42 towel but the the smaller towel that you
41:45 use to to W you know dry your hands and
41:48 and stuff uh it's really not that big
41:53 there is a small amount of blood
41:55 directly under the girls where you could
41:56 tell it would have seeped it would have
41:58 you know seeped out from from their
41:00 injuries uh but that also nowhere near
41:04 near the volume of of blood of the human
41:07 body so this is raising a lot of
41:10 questions for me I'm I'm definitely
41:12 going to want to hear more about this uh
41:14 because just just to me my view my eye
41:19 uh no it doesn't look like they were
41:20 killed there not to me not to me and
41:25 then there's just these these other
41:27 circum ances with uh with you know how
42:30 the blood had flowed where it was on the
42:32 trees and stuff like that that just uh
42:35 they don't they don't add up to a simple
42:37 story of he had the girls down there
42:41 killed them quickly and and you know
42:43 went about his way in 15 minutes it just
42:45 doesn't it just doesn't look like that
42:47 at
42:52 all I did I did um try to watch the jury
42:56 a little bit while we we were while we
42:58 were seeing all these photographs um
42:60 wanted to see how how uh how they took
42:02 it in uh most of them were pretty stoic
42:06 uh there was a couple of moments there's
42:08 a man uh in the front row who basically
42:12 when these photos would come up he would
42:14 have his hand over his mouth he would
42:17 sit sit with his hand over his mouth
42:19 while he watched the whole thing and
42:21 then at one point uh one of the one of
42:24 the men in the back row um you know I S
42:26 I saw him kind of WIP wiping his eyes um
43:30 everybody else seemed pretty stoic the
43:32 only moment was uh at one point
43:37 they the witness was narrating the the
43:40 photographs as we saw them you
43:42 describing what what we were seeing and
43:44 why they took the picture and what was
43:45 important and and so forth and at one
43:47 point uh they Advanced uh Advanced the
43:50 photo before they were really ready to
43:52 and uh and the advance was to a closeup
43:56 very like very close up of Libby's face
43:59 and her neck her neck wound and uh the
43:04 whole courtroom just because it was
43:07 horrible it
43:09 was it was really
43:16 horrible so he described using uh some
43:19 of the Chemical Testing the following
43:21 day uh to look for any other blood
43:25 stains body fluids things like that they
43:27 use this this um gly gluc Cristo Violet
43:30 which is a you know it's a reagent it
44:31 will react to the blood and and uh make
44:34 it kind of change change color and
44:36 texture and stuff and so they use that
44:38 to develop uh the F tree the one that
44:42 has the blood stains on
44:45 it can't really see real clearly um
44:49 these blood stains I can see why the
44:52 defense was arguing that it looked like
44:55 uh it looked like a rune or it looked
44:56 like some type of Del liberate pattern
44:58 uh it did not look like a random smear
44:00 it had a certain kind of linear
44:03 structure to it um but it's just it is
44:06 very hard to say especially given the
44:09 the canvas so to speak is is a tree
44:12 trunk you know it's got rough bark and
44:14 and
44:20 stuff uh he testified that he was
44:23 carrying his Glock
44:26 199mm that he has a uh also has a Sig
44:29 sour 227 45
45:32 caliber uh does not own a uh a 40
45:35 caliber so none of the none of the law
45:38 enforcement officers at uh at the scene
45:40 today uh fested up to having a 40
45:44 caliber firearm and so that's obviously
45:46 they are establishing that they closed
45:50 the perimeter so they didn't have any
45:52 random person walking through and uh and
45:55 the folks that were there on the scene
45:58 were not the source of that bullet that
45:60 that cartridge that was found uh because
45:03 they didn't uh they didn't carry that
45:04 that
45:20 firearm so we uh had we had our lunch
45:23 break um we didn't get a morning break
45:25 it just things mve too quickly so we had
45:27 had a long lunch and uh when we came
45:29 back uh Mr Rosie did the
46:32 cross and uh he described that well so
46:37 what what he wanted to elicit it elicit
46:40 was that um this you know
46:42 experienced crime scene investigator he
46:45 did not have an estimate of the time of
46:46 death no opinion on the time of death Mr
46:49 rousi asked about scavengers he was
46:51 asking about in this area are there
46:54 raccoons are there coyotes are they are
46:56 there buzzard things like that
46:59 that you know where where he's getting
46:01 at you're he's getting at if these girls
46:03 were were lying out there if the bodies
46:05 were lying out there uh all night
46:08 raccoons are nocturnal coyotes are
46:10 nocturnal like you know somebody
46:12 somebody they they may have started to
46:14 get um scavenged and there doesn't seem
46:16 to be any indication uh that that took
46:21 place so the
46:24 the officer described that sometimes
46:27 they'll they'll uh they'll use describes
46:29 the use of insects
47:31 um which is you know it's it's a thing
47:34 it's been studied extensively at the
47:35 Body Farm over there and I think it's in
47:37 North Carolina um they will sometimes
47:40 use that to estimate a time of death uh
47:42 but that would be something that the
47:44 coroner would do and that there's just
47:47 an awful lot of variables involved in
47:50 estimating a time of death which is very
47:52 true um especially with things like body
47:54 temperature because the body temperature
47:56 can be affected by the outside
47:58 temperature uh it's a general like
47:01 people generally will lose their body
47:03 heat at the same rate uh but it can
47:06 depend on if you're clothed if you're
47:07 not clothed um so just a lot of
47:10 different a lot of different uh
47:13 factors he did indicate that the reason
47:15 why they did not take core body
47:18 temperature uh samples from the girls
47:22 was because uh
47:25 they essentially what he's saying is
47:27 they they don't know if they're dealing
47:28 with a sexual assault and so if they're
48:30 dealing with that uh to take the G core
48:33 body temperature you have to intrude
48:36 into the abdomen they don't want to do
48:38 that because that can potentially
48:40 interfere with uh with that other type
48:41 of evidence so that is why according to
48:45 him they didn't take the core core body
48:46 temperature of the
48:51 girls Mr Rousy was asking if he knew
48:55 about breaches of the crime scene about
48:58 um photos being leaked to the public in
48:01 the early days photos of of the crime
48:03 scene that somebody took photos of the
48:05 bodies and disseminated them or that
48:07 other information about the crime scene
48:09 uh was leaking uh the officer indicated
48:12 he didn't know anything about that uh
48:15 seems that Mr Ro Rosie knows something
48:19 uh that he may we may we may not hear
48:21 about until the defense case but it
48:23 sounds like uh it sounds like he's got
48:25 some information about uh about just
48:27 information leaking out and he wants
48:30 that to be the case because the more
49:32 information is out there in the public
49:34 uh then the less likely it is that
49:36 whatever Mr Allen included in his
49:39 incriminating statements and his
49:41 confessions that uh Mr mcleland has
49:44 characterized as being details that only
49:46 only the killer would know the more
49:48 public information there is out there
49:50 about uh about the scene and about the
49:52 the bodies and and so forth the less
49:54 likely that it is in fact unique
49:56 information
49:02 they did try to uh collect some DNA at
49:06 the scene uh but that was that was
49:09 somebody else he was not aware of any
49:10 DNA connecting Mr Allen to the scene and
49:14 that is uh that is consistent with uh
49:17 with what we heard in the opening
49:19 statement that there's really nothing
49:21 nothing tying him
49:24 there they checked multiple times
49:27 uh to look for body fluids um things
50:30 Beyond blood looking for semen saliva
50:34 sweat uh stuff like that that typically
50:36 shows up through these you use these
50:38 reagents or uh with the light they
50:40 described using an alternative light
50:42 source which is basically like a blue
50:44 light uh and then they wear U orange or
50:47 yellow like filter goggle that enables
50:51 them to see the fluoresence of the of
50:53 the body fluid so they're using this ALS
50:57 process uh they're not seeing any body
50:59 fluid but the one guy who isn't wearing
50:02 the goggles he keeps seeing something
50:04 glitter while they're uh you know shine
50:08 shining the light over
50:09 it and so the glitter is the bullet the
50:14 cartridge the cartridge is um partially
50:18 buried underneath some leaves he
50:20 described that they removed leaves to be
50:23 able to to get a clear view of it uh and
50:28 it's kind of at like a 45 degree angle
50:30 into the ground this is the primer end
51:33 you never actually see the bullet end uh
51:36 of of this
51:37 cartridge um it's just it's not visible
51:41 from from that orientation and they
51:43 didn't take any photographs of it when
51:46 they they took it out of the ground this
51:48 was a big big Point uh that came up in
51:53 cross-examination uh both Mr Rosie and
51:55 Mr Baldwin um
51:58 we're emphasizing like shouldn't you
51:60 shouldn't you photograph or maybe like
51:02 videotape uh you know taking it out of
51:04 the ground just so you see you have a
51:06 good record uh the Witnesses were all
51:08 pretty adamant no no you don't do that
51:10 no it's not necessary no your job as the
51:12 crime scene investigator is to uh secure
51:16 it label it get it to the lab and then
51:20 the lab is who will do that
51:22 documentation of of the condition of it
51:25 so the the defense is clearly trying to
51:28 raise some questions about just the the
52:31 ability to be sure that it the Integrity
52:34 be sure of the Integrity of this piece
52:36 of evidence um is it in the same
52:38 condition when it gets to the lab as it
52:41 was uh when when it was initially in the
52:44 ground uh but they haven't they haven't
52:49 as far as I can tell really identified
52:51 anything that that was a problem with
52:53 the bullets don't know if that's their
52:56 leading up to the markings on the bullet
52:59 maybe being somehow related to handling
52:02 or or something like
52:04 that uh
52:07 ultimately my my view is that that line
52:09 of uh that line of cross-examination
52:11 really wasn't
52:14 Landing uh the witness conceded that yes
52:18 it did appear that the sticks the sticks
52:21 that were on both Abby and Libby uh they
52:25 were placed there deliberately clearly
52:27 placed there deliberately by human hands
52:29 on top of the girls and you can tell
53:32 just from the image that no this is not
53:35 this is not a concealment this is not
53:37 like somebody tried to cover them up to
53:40 make them hard to find because they were
53:42 still nearly entirely
53:44 visible uh
53:46 so the placement of the sticks is odd
53:50 from my perspective uh the law
53:52 enforcement officers didn't necessarily
53:54 want to concede that it was weird uh but
53:56 they did concede yes they were there
53:58 they were placed by human hands they did
53:00 not uh collect any trace evidence from
53:03 those sticks that bothered me I I didn't
53:06 like that if you know that the human
53:08 hands almost certainly the human hands
53:11 of the person that killed these
53:13 girls touch these sticks to put the
53:16 sticks on their
53:17 bodies that's that's where that's where
53:19 you should be looking for trace DNA
53:21 things that that are areas where you
53:24 have a strong suspicion that the killer
53:27 the suspect would have would have
53:30 touched they didn't do that uh initially
54:33 what they did is uh they he described
54:36 they picked up the branches and kind of
54:38 turned them over after they've you know
54:40 photographed and documented the scene
54:42 and everything they they turn over the
54:43 branches they're looking for additional
54:45 evidence didn't really see any so they
54:48 just went ahead and threw these sticks
54:50 kind of in a pile over to the side and
54:53 and left them and then about maybe 3
54:56 weeks later he's testified sometime in
54:58 March I I couldn't hear the date exactly
54:00 I I think it was in the ballpark of like
54:02 the 6th um but it was in March uh they
54:06 were sent back to go in and retrieve the
54:09 sticks so dispute at some point between
54:14 people about whether these sticks had
54:17 evidentiary value or not
54:22 um haven't heard anything to this point
54:25 that anything was ever recovered from
54:27 them but it's just unfortunate
55:31 because yeah they're out in the weather
55:33 for 3 weeks uh D DNA does degrade
55:36 environmentally um pretty pretty
55:39 rapidly he would have could have should
55:42 have you know and that's definitely a a
55:45 defense theme of this
55:47 investigation uh that they made mistakes
55:49 didn't do things that they should have
55:52 done and uh they really hammered on this
55:54 one as uh something that something that
55:57 should have been done
55:02 differently the
55:04 weather uh got the report the weather
55:06 was a high of 57° and a low of
55:11 34 uh can't that was on uh on the
55:14 13th could not remember if the 14th was
55:18 higher these crime scene investigators
55:20 did not take any measurements of the
55:22 depth of the creek so we saw a lot of
55:25 photographs of the creek the water is
55:28 significantly higher than it is than
56:31 just when I went out there you know week
56:34 week and a half
56:35 ago uh when I went out there I remember
56:37 looking at this River and you know this
56:39 this little creek and thinking gosh I I
56:41 heard people canoe on this like you
56:43 can't you can't canoe on this there's
56:45 not enough water not enough water to
56:47 canoe uh you're you're going to bottom
56:49 out uh in these photographs from uh from
56:52 the 14th uh in
56:55 particular it'sot High I mean the water
56:57 is all the way to the edge of the banks
56:00 um you
56:02 know creep creeping up creeping up the
56:05 banks a little bit uh so quite a lot of
56:07 water but nobody did take any any
56:09 measurements of
56:12 it they photographed uh some shoe
56:16 Impressions there were uh we didn't see
56:19 these they've just been described to us
56:21 so far so I don't know if they're going
56:22 to come in uh but we heard about shoe
56:24 Impressions on the south side of the
56:26 Creek uh and then a couple on the North
56:29 side over along the bank they were
57:31 skeptical of the the value of these of
57:35 these shoe prints because of the search
57:38 um just the fact that so many people had
57:40 had been going through this area uh in
57:44 the course of that in the course of that
57:47 search that it was just maybe not going
57:51 to be feasible
57:53 to rule out rule out who they were just
57:57 expect expect there to be Integrity in
57:02 that this uh
57:05 particular uh uh Trooper Trooper page
57:08 had uh suggested and made a
57:11 recommendation to bring in a blood
57:13 spatter expert based at least in part on
57:16 the stain on the F
57:18 tree uh he agreed that it seems like it
57:22 might have been an intentional marking
57:24 and not a random spatter
57:27 so uh he recommended a a crime a blood
58:31 spatter expert to to go in and uh
58:33 analyze that but that did not occur
58:36 until this last
58:39 spring just one more thing being left
58:41 till the 11th
58:44 Hour Mr Rosy then made a point to uh
58:47 bring out how long does it take to get
58:49 DNA testing done he got into a roll back
58:53 and forth with with this witness who
58:54 didn't want to uh didn't want to really
58:56 give him didn't want to really give him
58:58 anything uh this witness was a hard nut
58:01 to crack he was
58:07 uh very willing to not know things uh to
58:11 not understand
58:12 questions uh to answer things his own
58:15 way uh and so this back and forth was
58:19 not not particularly fruitful he was
58:21 just really trying to make the point
58:22 that if you had wanted to send off the
58:24 hair that was found in aby's hand for
58:27 DNA testing could have done that a lot
58:29 earlier gotten results and stuff like
59:31 that there's no need for that to take
59:33 seven
59:34 years the best he got was uh an estimate
59:38 that sometimes a DNA analysis might take
59:40 a couple weeks and sometimes there's a
59:43 rush I wish I wish DNA analysis only
59:45 took a couple weeks Where I Am Lord it
59:48 takes six months or more it's really
59:50 super back up backed up
59:02 so I'm just going to flip through and
59:03 see if there's anything else really uh
59:09 significant in this in this testimony
59:12 the only thing I think that mattered was
59:14 just clarifying that the bare spot that
59:19 uh was designated in the diagram and and
59:21 was pointed out in a couple of the
59:23 photographs this is not where the
59:25 cartridge was found uh this is something
59:28 separate and and different and so the
60:31 cartridge like I indicated was was
60:33 between the girls they had to remove
60:35 some leaves to to kind of be able to see
60:38 it and and photograph it and recover it
60:41 uh and it's kind of sitting there at
60:43 like this 45 degree angle with the
60:45 bullet down and the uh the primer primer
60:49 end the head stamp up towards the top
60:05 one thing that was sort of uh amusing
60:07 about this this particular witness was
60:10 that uh Mr Rosie was was hitting him
60:12 about surely you would just go ahead and
60:15 and uh and remove the bullet from the
60:17 ground and and take a photograph of it
60:19 in your hand or something like that to
60:21 just be able to to document its
60:23 condition at that time the witness says
60:25 no You' never photograph evidence in the
60:27 Palm in the palm of your hand uh that
60:30 that would be
61:31 unprofessional well then when we get to
61:33 the FBI it's just photo a photo a photo
61:36 a photo of the people holding up the
61:38 evidence in their hands and and having
61:39 the photos taken so was a little bit
61:42 little bit entertaining but one thing I
61:44 will say about this witness uh his his
61:47 educational background he had a
61:48 Bachelor's of Fine Arts and photography
61:50 he took amazing crime scene photos uh
61:54 you you could see the orientation was
61:56 very clear he knew lots of tricks for
61:59 things like uh when you have shadows a
61:01 lot of the photos uh they're they're
61:04 very shadowed areas because you know
61:06 you're in a forest and the trees the
61:07 trees cast shadows and stuff uh and so
61:10 he's got techniques to be able to
61:11 photograph and and you know minimize
61:14 that make uh make it make it more
61:16 visible
61:18 um some of the other crime scene photos
61:21 were not nearly so skilled his were his
61:23 were very very uh very high quality
62:36 we were getting we started getting some
62:39 objections uh as you might expect all of
62:41 the all of the states objections are
62:43 sustained asked and answered is
62:46 sustained
62:53 uh they established that uh
62:58 they didn't they didn't like do a
62:01 detailed ground layout like an elevation
62:04 to establish that the inclines and the
62:06 drops in the area where uh where Abby
62:09 and Libby were or like the elevation
62:10 difference between where they were and
62:13 where the creek was I'm not sure why
62:16 that would necessarily really really
62:19 matter um the defense wants it because
62:22 the defense wants to suggest that this
62:25 area is where Searchers would have been
62:28 naturally inclined to walk if they had
63:30 been in this area because it's it's the
63:33 flattest and so it's the easiest place
63:35 to be but it's just not really it's not
63:38 really documented um and so they I think
63:41 we're trying to get some help from the
63:43 state for that but but you know didn't
63:45 didn't get
63:51 that he then established just a variety
63:54 of areas that they did not search uh
63:56 they didn't search across uh the road
63:59 300 North they didn't search over like
63:03 further to the east of the
63:05 cemetery um they didn't search along the
63:09 the the road to the the mon the
63:14 um like where the the road connects up
63:17 to the Monon uh
63:21 Trail not sure that any of that matters
63:23 but again just trying to Chip Away uh
63:26 and and raise the implication that
63:28 there's a variety of things that law
63:30 enforcement didn't do that they should
64:32 have
64:34 done they did establish that in February
64:38 it's the visibility in this area is
64:40 probably about as good as it's ever
64:41 going to be there's not a lot of
64:43 undergrowth in this uh in this wooded
64:46 area it's a fairly mature Forest uh so
64:49 they probably don't have a ton to begin
64:51 with but they also said that in the you
64:54 know in the in the summer you might have
64:55 some some green some green undergrowth
64:58 this is winter they don't have any of
64:59 that all the leaves are off the trees uh
64:03 so what's really interfering with the
64:05 visibility in this area is not the trees
64:08 it's it's the it's the elevations it's
64:10 the it's the configuration of the ground
64:13 and just where you're able to see uh
64:16 from different from different
64:19 perspectives on the South Side
64:23 the uh the bank is is is elevated where
64:27 the where the driveway goes up towards
64:30 uh the Weber house that's quite a bit
65:33 elevated above the creek there's a steep
65:35 drop off from the creek we saw some
65:37 photos from the crime scene looking back
65:40 in that direction and you can you can
65:42 see it like you know the ground and then
65:45 and then way up in the in the sky and
65:47 that's that's where the road is
65:49 so clearly able to look down from the
65:53 road into this
65:55 area the defense is definitely going to
65:57 be raising this again they want to
65:59 suggest everybody who went up and down
65:01 that road doing doing the search and was
65:03 in that area uh it would have been
65:06 visible don't know if that's the case in
65:09 the dark you know in the in the light
65:12 maybe maybe that makes some sense
65:17 uh but not in the dark and in the light
65:21 the problem is uh
65:28 it still it still took a while to find
65:29 them in the
66:31 morning you
66:35 know the search the search resumed at
66:37 like 7:30 so if the girls had
66:42 been taken elsewhere and then brought
66:45 back to the scene and and left
66:48 there kind of logical to think it would
66:50 have to be before 7:30 but if it was so
66:53 easy to see into this area then you had
66:57 you know five hours between the time the
66:60 search started and uh and you know
66:02 roughly when when they found them it
66:05 just doesn't seem like it would have
66:06 taken that long if if it was really that
66:08 visible during the daytime
67:32 somebody did do um some detailed
67:36 distance
67:38 measurements in in this
67:40 area uh so we haven't seen that yet he
67:43 just said another C CSI did it I don't
67:46 know if that's going to still come in uh
67:49 but that that was kind of
67:52 previewed so that'll give a little bit
67:54 better I think sense of just not not
67:57 just the distance but also the timing
67:59 how you know we have a better idea of
67:01 how long it's going to take to to get
67:04 through all of these different
67:05 places
67:08 uh if you have a sense of a better sense
67:11 of exactly what what distances you're
67:12 dealing with a lot of the the
67:14 photographs and the
67:16 the trooper pagee was very upfront about
67:20 this and he's he's completely right uh
67:22 the photographs can be very distorting
67:24 on the perspective depending on the
67:26 length of the lens that you're using uh
67:29 wide angle lens tends to make things
68:31 look like they're a lot further away
68:34 than they are a longer lens a telephoto
68:37 type of lens is going to make them look
68:38 a lot closer than they are uh so it does
68:41 distort the perspective a little bit and
68:43 make it more of a challenge to be able
68:45 to to do those just eyeball estimates of
68:48 of what the distances are
68:58 so yes the bullet in the ground was a
68:60 Smith and
68:01 Wesson 40
68:05 caliber I'm assuming it was just a
68:07 regular it was not like a hollow point
68:09 or something like that or they would
68:10 have said so uh but we did not get a
68:14 picture of the bullet so we don't know
68:17 for example was this copper was this
68:19 lead uh you know what color was it it's
68:22 not that uncommon for them to be
68:23 different colors again not super sure
68:26 that it matters unless there is
68:28 something they're going to try to match
69:30 it to that they got from Mr Allen that
69:33 seems improbable to me because who's got
69:36 the same ammo seven years later if
69:38 you're a gun person you're not your your
69:40 ammo is not less than seven years so it
69:43 just doesn't seem that likely to me that
69:46 that there would be
69:47 something realistic that they could be
69:50 like o it's the same you know it's the
69:52 same same batch same lot same box that
69:56 that seems very unlikely to me um but it
69:59 is a point that the defense wanted to
69:00 establish that we don't we don't know
69:03 actually what that bullet looks like
69:05 when it came out of the ground
69:10 um next witness was another CSI
69:14 Dwayne I can't really pronounce this D
69:18 datman datman I think it is it's spelled
69:22 very
69:23 strange uh he is also Idaho State Patrol
69:29 uh same same deal with
70:31 uh you know train training and so forth
70:34 he got there at 1:11 p.m. very specific
70:38 uh went down to the scene met with
70:40 everybody
70:41 else uh he uh was a helicopter pilot
70:46 they wanted aerial photographs of the
70:48 scenes so that was his that ended up
70:50 being his uh he was tsed with that so we
70:54 did see a lot of different uh lot of
70:56 different aerial photographs uh from
70:59 from
70:02 above he was not carrying a firearm he
70:05 uh indicated that he left his uh his
70:09 firearm in the
70:12 vehicle so again you know more more
70:16 pictures of the body scar got his hand
70:18 back on his mouth again
70:26 this is the gentleman who was not
70:28 wearing the Eye shield when they were
70:30 doing the ALS testing uh so he's the one
71:33 that saw the the glitter and then was
71:35 able to identify uh identify the
71:38 cartridge there so I will say
71:42 this just from some of the information
71:44 that kind of floats around out there you
71:46 know this this is not consistent with
71:49 some of the I guess rumors that I had
71:51 heard about this piece of evidence I had
71:52 heard that the bullet was like buried 2
71:54 Ines into the ground
71:57 um I had heard that there was maybe an
71:59 issue with the chain of custody or that
71:01 the the scene had uh been released and
71:04 the and the bullet wasn't discovered
71:06 until until like some days later neither
71:09 of these things appears to be true uh
71:11 they're not true they found it there
71:13 that
71:14 morning
71:18 um wasn't buried in the ground had a
71:20 little bit of leaves on it but otherwise
71:23 uh was just kind the lion there on top
71:26 of the leaf
72:31 litter this uh particular officer
72:35 described uh the reason why they didn't
72:39 try to get DNA off of the tree branches
72:42 that had been on the girls was because
72:44 he had never been able to get uh DNA off
72:46 of a surface like this it's a you know
72:48 the bark is a is a rough surface uh so
72:51 in his view it had uh it had no
72:53 evidentiary value
72:56 I didn't that didn't that didn't I
72:58 didn't buy that rough surfaces are
72:60 generally going to be better better
72:02 sources of DNA than smooth surfaces
72:04 because they're going to be more likely
72:05 to catch those those skin cells that
72:07 you're shedding particularly if you're
72:09 looking for for that trace DNA that that
72:11 touch touch DNA like we're not supposed
72:13 to call it but would actually you know
72:16 be somewhat accurate in this particular
72:18 particular instance a rough source is
72:20 going to going to typically give you
72:24 more of that uh than something
72:28 smooth but that was the explanation that
73:31 we got uh felt that it had no no
73:33 evidentiary value and uh they would have
73:37 collected it if it was valuable well
73:40 they did later didn't they yeah they did
73:42 they went and got it went and got it in
73:43 March claimed that they knew which ones
73:45 that they which ones which sticks they
73:47 were and which which ones were the right
73:49 ones to
73:50 get I mean I guess maybe if they put
73:53 them in a pile they would recognize the
73:54 pile
73:58 I sure hope so I hope these aren't some
73:60 random sticks that they just found took
73:01 into evidence that's that would not be
73:11 good he described uh the partial partial
73:15 shoe impression that they found over in
73:17 the area of the uh of the soil
73:19 disturbance in his view none of the shoe
73:22 Impressions had evidentiary value he got
73:24 into a little bit of a technical
73:26 description about why that is that's
73:27 because when you're dealing with these
73:29 feature comparison techniques that are
74:32 not really Sciences they're just
74:34 eyeballing things and being like do they
74:36 look a lot like each other uh there's a
74:39 distinction that's drawn between what
74:41 they call class characteristics and
74:43 individual
74:44 characteristics so class characteristics
74:47 are the things that every item of a
74:49 similar class is going to share so
74:52 example if you have a pair of Nike shoes
74:54 uh of a certain size they're all going
74:56 to have the same print all going to have
74:58 the same footprint when they come off of
74:01 the manufacturer's line but after you
74:04 have worned them and scuffed them and
74:07 stepped on things and cleaned them and
74:10 so forth for however many months years
74:12 whatever then they start to pick up
74:15 individual wear and that is what
74:18 produces uh individual characteristics
74:21 so in these feature comparison types of
74:25 techniques uh typically that is what
74:27 they're going to look for is something
74:29 that can individualize the mark uh that
75:32 this particular uh item made now he
75:35 didn't really get into why that means it
75:39 wasn't of evidentiary
75:41 value uh because we heard that the shoe
75:44 print that was near uh near
75:48 this near this disturbance on the south
75:51 side of the bridge uh looked like one of
75:53 the girl shoes
75:56 that that seems that seems like that has
75:58 some evidentiary value to me uh call me
75:02 crazy
75:06 but Mr Baldwin cross-examined uh
75:10 cross-examined this
75:12 witness and uh got got some concessions
75:15 it wouldn't have been difficult to photo
75:19 the you know to photograph the bullet
75:21 where you could see the tip that would
75:22 be a wise thing to do uh
75:26 but the the witness also emphasized that
75:28 the really important thing to do with
75:30 this type of evidence is you package it
76:32 right away because you might damage it
76:34 and so that's why uh their preference is
76:36 to go ahead and let the lab do those
76:38 types of detailed uh uh
76:44 documentations he did not document that
76:47 the clo uh or that Abby herself uh were
76:52 damp uh acknowledge that that could be
76:55 important and so presumptively he didn't
76:58 notice that they were damp and that's
76:60 why he didn't not it he he was willing
76:01 to concede these things this this
76:03 witness was far more willing to be led
76:07 than the uh first first CS CSI
76:12 guy uh Mr Baldwin asked if there they
76:15 had seen any mail prints in the area of
76:20 where that um that single partial shoe
76:23 print that looked like the looked like
76:24 the victim shoe uh if they had seen a
76:28 mail Print near there and they they said
77:30 no so that's something the defense will
77:32 build on hey there's prince in this area
77:35 the girl picked up the prince these man
77:38 supposed to be you know marching her
77:40 down to the creek wears his
77:43 Footprints absence of evidence of course
77:45 is not evidence of absence uh but
77:47 they're going to Jin that up a lot I
77:50 think they're going to try to emphasize
77:52 that there's too much missing that it
77:53 isn't just one thing that
77:57 uh is a giveaway it's that if this crime
77:01 occurred the way that the state said it
77:03 did you would expect a lot more to be
77:06 there so just more evidence of
77:10 uh the the the control the conflict the
77:14 movements uh and and and so
77:21 forth when Mr Baldwin
77:25 was asking him about uh he he he would
77:28 not concede that this was a very odd
77:30 crime scene and so Mr Baldwin asked
78:34 uh does you know isn't it weird to be at
78:37 a scene where sticks have been
78:39 deliberately arranged on the bodies and
78:40 so the state objected to this that that
78:43 whether they were arranged is
78:44 speculative and that of course is is
78:49 sustained there was a very testy
78:52 exchange about the failure to collect
78:54 the sticks
78:57 uh he indicated he did not know why they
78:01 were sent back ultimately to get them uh
78:03 conceded that yes human human hands had
78:06 to pick up and and move these sticks and
78:10 but he he was trying to back away well
78:12 but there wouldn't have been a
78:14 transfer B Mr Baldwin was asking well
78:16 and so that you know could could result
78:18 in a transfer of DNA and the deput is
78:21 saying well not or the trooper is saying
78:23 not not if he was wearing gloves so Mr
78:25 bald's like so was he wearing gloves the
78:29 trooper says well I don't know and uh so
79:33 then Mr baldman says so shouldn't you
79:36 have collected it and he says well we
79:38 did and Mr baldman says
79:42 when and he says the trooper says a few
79:44 days later and Mr Baldwin gives him a
79:48 look gives the jury a look few days
79:51 later he's not buying that that was that
79:52 was a little bit of a score on him they
79:54 they did try to minimize um the
79:57 significance of that that if it did have
79:59 evidentiary value they left it out there
79:01 in the weather for 3 weeks at least uh
79:04 so this this is not just a few days not
79:07 a not a big deal very likely that
79:10 anything that could have been recovered
79:11 from that uh would not would not have
79:18 lasted he thought that the photographs
79:20 of uh the tree were good enough for the
79:24 blood spatter EX expert that there would
79:26 be no reason for the blood spatter
79:27 expert to need to go out there
80:31 personally no idea as to whether it was
80:34 inappropriate that a blood spatter
80:36 expert would take seven years to get
80:39 called
80:45 out so they walked through some of the
80:48 areas where they thought the killer may
80:50 have walked to look for evidence there
80:53 so basically walked from the bridge down
80:55 this slide down to the access road and
80:59 in this area they found these Footprints
80:02 so then over on the north side of the
80:03 creek as well then on the bank they
80:05 found they found
80:08 Footprints but these were not of
80:10 evidentiary value apparently they took
80:12 some photos of them they didn't take
80:13 imprints or anything like
80:15 that so we'll see if we see these
80:18 photographs come into evidence at any
80:19 point in time we have not seen them so
80:21 far
81:31 saw nothing resembling the set of three
81:33 Footprints going down to the creek that
81:35 was a a point that Mr Miller wanted to
81:42 uh oh boy Mr Baldwin now I'm calling him
81:46 Andy Miller because that's the
81:47 prosecutor in my in my
81:51 jurisdiction too many hours without
81:53 sleep guys
81:57 uh this is also the witness that that
81:58 testified about how um you you wouldn't
81:01 chance doing the a core body temperature
81:05 uh because you don't want to uh you
81:08 don't want to risk interfering with uh
81:10 with evidence of uh of sexual
81:15 assault described a lot of these Vari
81:18 variables uh if you're also wet you know
81:21 will change the rate at which you lose
81:23 body temperature he touch the bodies to
81:26 see if they were
81:27 cold
82:35 um he said his only recollection of the
82:38 temperature was that it was 41 degrees
82:41 at one point on the 4th 14th so I would
82:44 assume that was probably either you know
82:47 probably pretty early in the morning or
82:48 maybe late in the evening because they
82:50 did describe that they were there all
82:51 day they they left that scene uh at like
82:55 10 10 to 10:30 that evening um after
82:59 processing the
82:01 bodies some other items that they
82:03 collected they
82:05 collected uh another bra a pink colored
82:08 sock uh another
82:11 shirt a drink cup a a Jimmy John's drink
82:15 cup with a straw that looked new didn't
82:17 look like old and and weathered and
82:19 stuff some uh Camel cigarette butts an
82:23 energy drink can
82:25 but all these things were on the end of
82:29 the bridge on the North side so if
83:32 you're following the the high Trail
83:34 following the trail on the path that the
83:36 girls took it was at the end before you
83:38 go onto the bridge and and go proceed to
83:41 cross the the
83:43 creek not sure if any of those things
83:46 will have been tested suspect once again
83:49 that will be what the defense is getting
83:51 at that these could be evidence of
83:53 potential Suspects and it wasn't
83:55 followed up
83:58 on Mr Baldwin did ask a very good
83:02 question on redirect here he asked this
83:05 witness if you had to do it all over
83:07 again would you take a photograph of the
83:10 bullet as you had pulled it out so that
83:11 you could see the tip and the witness
83:14 conceded that yes he would uh it it was
83:17 a good question just because all that if
83:19 you if you if you could do it all over
83:22 again it's just a good way to frame to
83:24 kind of put the witness on the
83:26 spot
83:29 uh to see how reasonable he's going to
84:32 be if he's going to if he's going to dig
84:33 down and say no absolutely not there's
84:36 just no I I I I wouldn't I would do it
84:38 all the same he doesn't look reasonable
84:40 you know because concession he made more
84:43 information is better than less and so
84:46 everything else being equal yes you
84:48 would want more photographs than
84:53 fewer not that that means it's critical
84:55 that they didn't do it but just
84:57 everything else being equal sure you
84:60 would take that you would take that uh
84:03 you would take that
84:05 photograph the jury's questions
84:08 indicated they were not really to me I
84:11 mean you can tell me your read uh but
84:12 they indicated to me the jury is not
84:15 really buying into uh where the defense
84:18 was going today with his argument about
84:20 the bullet and needing to document it
84:23 making sure that it's the same one that
84:25 the jury gets to see this was a a way
84:28 that they phrase that question several
84:29 times that's why you have to document
85:31 things to be sure that the evidence the
85:33 jury is seeing is the same thing that
85:35 came from the
85:36 scene so the jury asks is there any
85:39 reason why the bullet submitted into
85:41 evidence would be a different bullet and
85:44 uh the witness explain no we have
85:46 processes to make sure that uh these
85:48 things are identified they're tagged
85:50 they're stored uh if you're going to
85:51 access it you have to sign it out when
85:53 it goes to the lab it's it's secured in
85:56 a box uh so all of these steps are taken
85:58 to make sure that things don't
85:00 inadvertently get switched and uh the
85:03 the one that the jury is is looking at
85:06 is the same one that was taken into
85:08 evidence second question was is there
85:11 any process to ensure the jury is seeing
85:13 evidence that is not
85:15 tampered and uh again he just emphasize
85:19 they have this evidence collection and
85:21 and uh monitoring system that assigns
85:24 everything in number and and manages it
85:26 and so forth and then tracks everybody
85:28 who uh who accesses that piece of
86:35 evidence Brian Oley was the third of the
86:39 uh crime scene investigators who
86:43 testified and
86:45 uh likewise he got out there early in
86:49 the morning he was the lead he was the
86:51 lead CSI guy he had the least experience
86:54 of all of them at CSI but he's the one
86:56 that got the call from uh whichever
86:60 Deputy it was that called him uh so he's
86:03 the one that kind of organized the
86:04 others to uh to respond as well and help
86:07 that meant he ended up being the
86:10 lead uh this particular
86:14 witness he had a really hard time
86:16 answering the question like there were
86:18 several times that uh Mr Mr Latrell was
86:21 handling uh the direct of of these
86:23 Witnesses and so Mr Latrell would ask a
86:26 question and the witness just he would
86:28 answer something completely different he
86:30 would just say something completely
87:31 different never never answer never
87:33 answered the original
87:35 question so like for example he went on
87:38 this long description about um exactly
87:40 where he arrived near the the old Deli
87:43 cemetery and where they went and so
87:44 forth the question had been when did you
87:47 arrive and so we never got an answer to
87:51 the question of when he arrived on the
87:52 scene probably doesn't particular LLY
87:54 matter but
87:56 uh he was just going on about you know
87:59 I'm not really sure what county road it
87:00 is I'm not from here and uh had a long
87:03 description of the parking lot who was
87:05 parked in there and things like that all
87:08 in response to uh when when did you
87:14 arrive he is also a hunter and so he was
87:17 uh he was I'm not going to say drawing
87:20 on that expertise but they did bring out
87:23 that uh in his opinion this was Prime
87:26 Deer Country I I had when I was out
87:29 there I I saw deer out there and I mean
88:31 it has certainly crossed my mind this is
88:33 a great place to hunt especially down
88:35 there in the river bottom because one
88:37 there's live live you know Wildlife
88:41 everywhere but the way that the uh the
88:45 ground is configured you have a natural
88:47 the the cliff is right there you have
88:49 this natural bank that's going to stop
88:52 any any shot that you take uh very hard
88:55 to you know accidentally shoot too high
88:56 and you get a rise and your bullet
88:58 escapes or something like that it's so
88:60 steep that nobody is going to be coming
88:02 down there so you don't you know really
88:04 have to worry too much about about uh
88:07 about somebody you know being Beyond the
88:09 bullet or whatever so that had crossed
88:11 my mind also that this would be a really
88:13 good place to hunt and he did confirm
88:16 that that's not necessarily helpful uh
88:19 to the state if they're trying to
88:20 suggest that this
88:22 bullet only could have been there
88:25 uh be because because Mr Allen left it
88:27 there if there's like Hunters crawling
88:29 all over this area well then uh makes it
89:32 more likely makes it more likely or even
89:35 just casual Shooters I mean let's be
89:37 real I don't know how many people are
89:38 going out and shooting uh shooting deer
89:40 with a 40 caliber handgun I hope nobody
89:42 is honestly that wouldn't be good um but
89:45 just in general as an as an area to be
89:47 down shoot shooting um target shooting
89:50 stuff like that yeah it's it's pretty
89:52 pretty ideal for something like that
89:57 uh he they they came back to the trail
89:59 cameras with this witness and he said
89:02 that he was specifically told that none
89:04 were found this is not consistent with
89:07 what we heard from uh from was it Gian
89:11 Gian Colo the the first witness that he
89:14 was on his way to go collect them
89:16 because they had been specifically told
89:18 this land owner has several trail
89:19 cameras he's got video
89:23 um so there is an inconsistency there uh
89:28 again is it critical I don't know but it
90:31 definitely goes to a potential source of
90:34 information that they may or may not
90:36 have uh have followed up
90:42 on uh he also indicated that they at
90:45 some point had used the the County's
90:47 plat Maps the the maps that show the the
90:50 land boundaries and the ownership and
90:52 stuff like that to be able to to
90:54 identify the owners and contact them to
90:56 ask them do you have trail cameras out
90:59 here do you allow people to hunt on your
90:01 property have you given anybody
90:03 permission to be out there to hunt uh
90:05 just because that could again
90:06 potentially give them some more some
90:09 more individuals some more leads that
90:11 they would be able to
90:19 pursue he did not believe he was uh
90:21 carrying a firearm but if he was
90:25 it wasn't a uh 40 it was either a Sig
90:28 sour P
91:30 22745 or a Sig sour P 3659 mimer would
91:35 not have been anything
91:38 else he interacted with the FBI's uh
91:41 evidence Response Team the evidence
91:43 response team is who uh was tasked with
91:46 securing the clothing that had been
91:48 found in the water remember the the tie
91:50 dye the tie-dye shirt and the
91:51 shoes there were some other uh items as
91:55 well these were photographed we saw them
91:59 um there was a uh
91:01 handkerchief there was a uh sweatshirt
91:05 like a a hoodie type sweatshirt that was
91:08 H submerged in the water there was a uh
91:11 what he described as a footy sock uh so
91:15 all of these things are are wet uh the
91:17 FBI took them off to uh secure them get
91:21 them in the in the drying room in one of
91:24 the County one of the county
91:29 offices they walked uh around Ground
92:32 Zero in a in a line doing a step and
92:35 walk so they all line up and step by
92:37 step they they go down the line to make
92:40 sure that they haven't missed anything
92:41 so that's essentially their way of being
92:44 able to clear that
92:49 scene just got some more uh some more
92:52 detail some more kind of specific trying
92:56 to narrow down exactly where in this
92:58 area uh the the bodies were found so I I
92:01 have a clear image of that basically if
92:04 you look at a map of the river um the
92:08 creek you see the the bridge comes
92:10 across and the creek starts to uh starts
92:14 like takes some turns and so it's
92:16 basically in the area like beyond beyond
92:19 the little curves uh that that the the
92:22 stream takes but down
92:24 in what they're calling a flood plane
92:27 area so it's it's lower it's not all the
92:29 way down at the water level it is above
93:32 a bank uh but it's in an area that yeah
93:35 it probably probably does flood uh from
93:38 time to time with the amount of water
93:39 going
93:41 through more uh photos of of the bodies
93:46 and uh description of them of them being
93:49 processed I did notice um you know one
93:53 of the one of the questions that I had
93:55 raised from some of these
93:58 photographs
93:60 um I'm assuming which is maybe not a
93:03 smart thing to do but I'm assuming that
93:06 all of the blood was dried because of
93:08 the time that has elapsed and and uh the
93:11 state you know is clearly clearly
93:14 wanting this to be you know many hours
93:17 almost uh almost 24 hours between the
93:20 time that the the girls were killed and
93:22 the bodies were recovered so you know
93:24 blood blood should have all dried by
93:26 then it's just very hard to tell in
93:28 these photographs though it's very hard
94:30 to tell in these photographs you know
94:31 when blood dries it tends to kind of go
94:34 Brown get very dull um and it just the
94:38 photographs were still in many spots
94:41 quite quite bright quite quite red
94:44 looked like possibly still
94:47 wet so I described uh the strange what I
94:51 considered to be kind of strange uh
94:53 blood pattern
94:55 that were on uh on Libby's body the only
94:57 other one I I can remember now um is
94:60 that on on both of her hand her both
94:02 both of her hands were were quite bloody
94:05 uh but on one of her hands I believe it
94:09 was the right uh there was a an area in
94:14 the Palm that looked like it had been
94:17 cleared like there's blood all around
94:19 but then there's like this clear area uh
94:22 so it almost looked like something had
94:24 been there or else something had rubbed
94:27 it to remove to remove that part of that
94:30 part of the
95:31 blood the other thing that was quite
95:33 distinctive was there was a blood
95:35 pattern on her wrist kind of like
95:39 this that looked it it looked kind of
95:42 like if you took a string and dipped it
95:44 in Blood and then pressed it it was very
95:47 linear like that and it didn't have it
95:50 didn't have like a clear droplet it
95:52 didn't have a clear flow it didn't have
95:53 a clear smear it looked like it looked
95:55 like a line it was a it was a bizarre um
95:60 bizarre
95:03 pattern but
95:05 otherwise uh yeah the
95:10 real the real weird things here were
95:13 those those strange strange blood
95:16 patterns the strange blood flow that
95:19 appeared uh on on Libby and then with
95:22 Abby being
95:25 almost completely clean
95:28 almost almost uh almost in
96:32 almost
96:34 pristine her hands especially almost
96:37 completely
96:40 pristine and it made me wonder if if uh
96:44 was was she washed or something I mean
96:46 we know the clothes were removed you can
96:47 see we we see the photographs of the
96:49 clothes the jeans are clearly way too
96:51 big for her not her jeans
96:57 um we saw um the placement the location
96:02 of the the shoe and the phone when her
96:05 body was was uh was rolled
96:08 over uh and so they're basically down in
96:11 the small of her back the the phone is
96:13 on the ground the shoe is on top of the
96:15 phone the shoe ironically it's the same
96:18 black Nike shoe it was John O'Keefe's
96:21 shoe it's the same shoe it's the same
96:24 same shoe go
96:26 figure only other little detail that
96:29 kind of came out uh about that evidence
97:32 is that the phone case she had a Harry
97:35 Potter phone case a little
97:37 Gryffindor Gryffindor phone case and so
97:41 both of the girls they were ultimately
97:44 placed on on clean white sheets they
97:46 were wrapped up put in new body bags and
97:49 uh transported over to Tera Tera oat for
97:53 the autopsies
97:56 we concluded uh before we were done with
97:00 uh with this uh this particular
97:02 witness um he was he's attending the
97:07 autopsy so I'm sure we're going to get
97:09 some evidence about that there was a a
97:11 brief
97:12 sidebar where they were arguing about
97:15 photographs coming in and ultimately uh
97:19 the judge overruled the defense ex
97:21 exceptions with the exception of the
97:23 final seven of them which she said uh
97:26 they would need to complete the state
97:27 would need to complete the foundation
97:29 for those with the forensic
98:31 pathologist uh so those we seem to be
98:34 leading into uh to the autopsy and I
98:38 suspect that's what we are uh going to
98:40 be getting tomorrow we'll get uh this
98:43 Witnesses witnessing of it and then
98:46 we'll we'll probably I would expect get
98:48 the uh get the medical
98:50 examiner so that was really the day I
98:53 mean
98:54 not a ton of stuff but uh yeah it's
98:58 really not fun to watch it's really not
98:60 fun to watch nobody nobody likes photos
98:02 like that uh I think for all that
98:05 there's always concern with trials like
98:08 this that oh you know there's going to
98:09 be people there just to gratuitously
98:11 look at this stuff there's really not
98:14 there's really not no nobody nobody is
98:16 enjoying this
98:20 process so guys oh man I'm ready to get
98:24 some sleep if yall don't mind I'm gonna
98:26 I'm going to run through your super
98:27 chats real fast thank you so much Bri
99:30 for the 499 thank you not sure what
99:33 happened with the first one so here's
99:34 another well thank you for the double
99:36 down you're you're in it to win it thank
99:39 you for all you're doing for this case
99:41 uh everyone like And subscribe thanks so
99:43 much for
99:45 that
99:46 uh that's the same one the squid thank
99:50 you for taking the time to cover this
99:52 trial and also thank you for advocating
99:54 for Public Access with your filing well
99:56 like I said somebody needs to do it it's
99:59 it's it's it's it's reached a point
99:02 where it's just become very flagrant
99:06 uh I mean i' I've said I I at some point
99:11 if you wonder what the purpose of
99:14 something is you just look at look at
99:16 look at what it is look at what's
99:17 happening look at what it's doing like
99:20 that that's
99:21 it the chaos is starting to seem like
99:25 it's by Design that's how they want it
99:28 it's not being taken under control
99:30 because they want it to be like this
100:31 they want people to be at each other's
100:34 throats over line disputes they want the
100:36 media to be triangulated against the
100:38 public uh they they want all of this to
100:40 be the case and it's just so unfortunate
100:43 and so
100:44 unnecessary and if we could all just
100:47 have these audio recordings as they were
100:50 coming out and reasonable access to
100:52 these exhibits
100:55 we wouldn't need any of this we wouldn't
100:57 need I wouldn't need to have traveled
100:58 2,000 miles to be here all these other
100:00 people who have traveled to be here
100:02 wouldn't need to and you know what the
100:03 people in the local
100:05 community the ones who were who were
100:07 traumatized by this
100:09 crime yeah they they wouldn't have to
100:13 be camping out at 2 in the morning in
100:16 front of their own Courthouse just to be
100:18 able to get uh to get that get that view
100:23 K RB she she wants to drive everyone
100:24 away so she can run the trial in the
100:26 dark maybe I
100:30 mean I I
101:33 yeah my my other view of it has just
101:35 been it's a big hazing you know this is
101:37 just a big hazing this is just a
101:40 penalize us for showing up much as she
101:43 can maybe try to discourage try to
101:45 discourage
101:46 people it's not working so far sixth
101:50 estate thank you for your time effort
101:52 and amazing Recaps will your very
101:54 welcome thank you for being here with me
101:56 Oxanna Luke with a super sticker thank
101:58 you
101:59 Oxanna really appreciate
101:02 that Megan j do we know if it appears
101:07 Abby dressed herself in Libby's clothes
101:09 premortem or does it appear she was
101:11 dressed by the killer
101:12 postmortem so we don't know it hasn't
101:16 been said if you were going to ask me to
101:19 speculate I would speculate looks like
101:21 she was dressed by somebody else
101:24 kind of hard to tell but the reason why
101:27 is because the jeans for example were
101:29 not fastened uh they they were kind of
102:32 partially opened bunched up um the way
102:37 that her hands were kind of caught up in
102:40 the
102:42 sweatshirt it just it doesn't you know
102:44 it doesn't look like how a person would
102:46 put on would put on their own clothes
102:48 but I don't know if we have any uh I
102:50 don't know if we have any real
102:53 information about and we certainly don't
102:54 at this point I don't know if we're
102:56 going to get
102:57 any analysis about that I one of the
102:00 reasons I have that thought too is
102:02 because of course this hair this hair
102:04 that's now lurking out there and we know
102:07 that it's a female hair it's possibly a
102:10 relative of libes but we don't know
102:13 we're we're waiting for confirmation on
102:15 that we know that the sweatshirt that
102:17 Abby was wearing belonged to Libby's
102:19 sister and so Libby sister seems like an
102:22 obvious source of this hair
102:24 and that's one of the things I I had
102:26 thought about was you know you just have
102:28 random hair like inside your clothes or
103:30 or whatever if somebody was dressing
103:34 dressing Abby in the sweat in the
103:36 sweatshirt and you know pull pulling her
103:39 hands through and stuff like that well
103:40 then I could see there's a hair inside
103:42 it gets all tangled in her hand and they
103:45 wouldn't know because her hand is still
103:47 is still stuck up inside the sweatshirt
103:49 they didn't pull the sweatshirt all the
103:51 way down to our wrists um that to me
103:54 would be a very conceivable explanation
103:57 for how that hair got there and and the
103:59 position that it was
103:01 in but we don't know we'll have to see
103:03 if anything else about that comes out
103:04 rumor has it thank you Andrea for being
103:06 we the people you are amazing well thank
103:10 you gray your motion emojis I'm not GNA
103:15 lie I enjoyed writing this one I really
103:17 did I enjoyed writing this one it's it's
103:19 not often you get to write a motion
103:22 where the law is just so unequivocally
103:25 clear on your side that uh it's it's
103:29 really easy to explain it and so then it
104:31 just became an exercise of of telling
104:34 the story of what's what's happened with
104:36 this trial and why it
104:38 matters
104:40 so the crypto tax lawyer Thank You For
104:43 Fighting the good fight for truth and
104:45 Justice get some sleep fellow Esquire we
104:47 appreciate you more than you know well
104:50 thank you I will get a few hours at
104:52 least before I head back over to the
104:55 courthouse and try to get some more on
104:57 the courthouse
104:59 steps Nicola Maxwell please get some
104:01 sleep we can hear this tomorrow look
104:03 after yourself so happy your friend when
104:04 her first fight take care of yourself
104:06 well thank you I will I will get
104:09 sleep carazola X I don't think Allen is
104:12 going to make it to appeal if he loses
104:14 he called out some of the guards and a p
104:17 gang in the two years he'll wait for
104:19 appeal guards will find a chance to look
104:21 away when gang skulls him yeah big
104:25 concern big concern his safety in there
104:27 I mean you're not alone it's a comment
104:29 that has come up many times uh in the
105:31 courtroom from people that are that are
105:34 talking about this and concerned about
105:35 it his his safety is
105:37 very very legitimately a concern six
105:41 estate did the girls appear muddy at all
105:43 on the lower bodies and feet a uh Libby
105:47 yes Libby was very muddy very muddy uh
105:51 especially all through her legs uh on
105:54 her back when she was rolled over um her
105:57 back was just very covered in in debris
105:60 and
105:01 stuff Abby almost not at all like I said
105:04 Abby was almost perfectly pristine and
105:06 the only place where she this is another
105:09 reason why potentially uh it's a
105:12 situation of another person dressing her
105:15 the only place where she really did seem
105:17 to have some debris and dirt and stuff
105:20 was on the very bottom of her feet and
105:22 so her very but her feet are you know at
105:25 least partially inside the shoes so I
105:28 don't know about you I would never put
105:30 my shoes on with a bunch of junk on my
106:32 feet that would drive me nuts you're
106:34 walking all over it it's stuck in your
106:35 shoes uhuh no you brush your feet off
106:39 and then and then stick them in your
106:41 shoe so uh but that was really the only
106:45 really the only dirt on Abby that we saw
106:48 it all she was extremely clean extremely
106:52 clean
106:54 Nell wood Andrea you are a damn rock
106:56 star well thank you thank you so much
106:58 it's it's just emotion it's just a
106:01 lawyer thing you know it's just what I
106:02 do but I I do appreciate
106:05 that
106:06 pantoufle I don't know if that's how you
106:08 pronounce it but that's that's how I'm
106:10 going to say it panl found you through
106:12 Peter tros Peter tros is awesome glad
106:15 you found your way here glad you made it
106:17 in the courtroom great coverage thanks
106:18 to the people who helped you get in stay
106:20 strong well thank you I'm going to keep
106:22 right on trucking
106:23 because if there's one thing I can do I
106:26 can uh I can dig deep and take it to the
106:29 final
107:30 Bell TF thank you for fighting for
107:33 Access and transparency and taking a
107:35 stand for the girls and for us all well
107:37 it's my pleasure I think it's extremely
107:39 important that uh people see this trial
107:43 it's it's very important it's it's
107:45 critical for justice everybody everybody
107:49 wants the person who did this to this
107:51 girls uh to pay to pay the price uh and
107:55 so we we we all are invested in knowing
107:59 if if that person is Richard Allen or
107:03 not Wendy DB thank you Andrea well thank
107:07 you Daniel Baker during graphic pictures
107:10 did you make any observations of Richard
107:12 Allen so I really didn't I couldn't see
107:14 him very well from where I was at in the
107:16 courtroom uh I'm basically kind of
107:19 behind him and uh at a little bit of an
107:22 angle and he's so small uh that pretty
107:27 much anybody in the chairs ahead of me
107:29 they they block my view I I really can't
108:31 see him at all I did see just at various
108:35 points in the day uh he's taking notes
108:39 he does you know seem to be engaged in
108:41 the process that way periodically turn
108:43 and and talk to Mr Baldwin uh but with
108:46 respect to the um the photographs in
108:49 particular I did not see any specific
108:52 response from him
108:55 skeptic curiosity thanks Andrea for all
108:57 you're doing well you're very welcome
108:00 you know honestly it's kind of an
108:02 adventure you know it's kind of fun and
108:04 I can't lie I like a good fight every
108:05 once in a while I haven't thrown down in
108:07 a little bit so you know sometimes you
108:09 just got to file em motion just to shake
108:11 off the dust brutally honest Andrea did
108:14 you notice if there were sticks placed
108:16 above aby's head just asking because EF
108:19 said he gave one of the girls horns SL
108:22 antlers with sticks
108:24 no I did not I did not see sticks above
108:26 aby's head um with Abby the sticks were
109:30 basically uh it was on let me check my
109:34 diagram because I want to be sure I
109:35 remember which side it was
109:37 on it was on her leftand side and it was
109:41 basically just like a cross basically
109:43 just like a cross of sticks uh I did not
109:46 see anything near her head I didn't see
109:48 anything up near Libby's head either so
109:52 I don't I don't think there were uh I
109:54 don't think there were
109:56 antlers I don't think
109:59 uh I don't think uh the Twigs I don't
109:01 think that explains what Elvis uh Fields
109:04 was talking
109:06 about camela Norris best advice if
109:08 someone pulls a pew pew on you run run
109:10 run away you don't want to go to the
109:12 second location Please be aware of your
109:14 surroundings stay safe
109:16 yeah tough situation I mean I know they
109:19 always say don't get in the car right
109:21 don't get in the car
109:25 it's hard because you know you feel like
109:27 your life is threatened and it's very
109:29 normal I think for anybody under a
110:31 situation like that everybody wants to
110:33 live the tiniest little amoeba that
110:34 doesn't have a brain wants to live uh
110:37 and will fight to live and so it's just
110:40 natural to do whatever you think is
110:44 going to extend that extend your life
110:47 and minimize the risk that you're going
110:48 to get shot get killed you know whatever
110:54 uh but yeah what could happen to you in
110:56 that second location could be far
110:02 worse Michael osbrook I'd like a job are
110:05 you hiring
110:08 Andrea you K me
110:11 well no can't say I am I I mean do is
110:16 this is this a job is this a job I don't
110:18 I don't know we're sitting we're all
110:19 sitting out here in this line out front
110:21 of the courthouse in the morning by 4:00
110:23 in the morning we're all like what are
110:25 we doing here what are we doing with our
110:27 lives have we really lost our minds is
110:29 this really what we're
111:30 doing yeah we are that's what we got to
111:33 do if we're going to get access to this
111:36 iosa Plex gifted 10 memberships that is
111:39 amazing thank you so much for doing that
111:41 that's awesome asid Lee how could one
111:44 person do this in a short time span and
111:46 not get caught big big question that I
111:50 have after seeing the scene and uh just
111:54 yes having that kind of perspective on
111:57 what has transpired here what it would
111:59 have taken I was already skeptical about
111:01 this for several
111:03 reasons uh the ability to control two of
111:06 the girls with one one person one
111:10 gun obviously not going to say that's
111:13 impossible of course not uh but it's
111:15 just there's more opportunities for for
111:17 somebody to be able to escape somebody
111:19 be able to get away somebody to be able
111:21 to you know make some noise the complete
111:24 absence of noise having been down there
111:28 you hear every tiny rustle in the leaves
112:32 there will be a squirrel you know 100
112:35 yards down the road jumping through
112:38 trees and you will hear it uh I don't
112:41 know if the sound kind of carries in
112:43 there or what but it's it's just it is
112:46 everything is is very audible the lack
112:48 of
112:50 sound it had been reported and it seemed
112:53 seems to be confirmed through these
112:54 these uh photographs today that uh
112:57 there's no signs of a struggle this was
112:60 a big one for me this is a big one for
112:03 me I don't know how one person kills two
112:06 people and neither of them struggles
112:09 because you you you you it seems to me
112:11 like you would have to either leave the
112:13 one alone to be able to kill the other
112:16 out of sight of the one in which case
112:18 again now you're you're giving that one
112:20 an opportunity to to escape
112:23 uh you're not doing it in front of them
112:27 because there's no way you're not going
112:29 to struggle at that point if you as soon
113:31 as you know as soon as as soon as you
113:33 know that it's
113:34 coming yes you're going to fight for
113:36 your life even the tiny little amibo
113:38 will do that so they didn't know it was
113:40 coming and that seems very very
113:42 difficult to accomplish with one
113:45 person and so now yeah all of this is
113:48 just kind
113:51 of to me being being
113:55 being built up on more and more by
113:58 seeing this scene and what was done the
113:00 the the the fact that the bodies clearly
113:03 were moved you know for for some reason
113:06 in some way in some fashion uh the the
113:09 blood dripped in ways that is not
113:11 consistent with where they came to rest
113:14 the placement of the branches the
113:17 dressing of Abby very much like I said
113:20 does look like somebody else dressed her
113:23 and all this happened in 20 minutes got
113:25 him off the bridge down down the
113:29 hill across the
114:33 creek doesn't make a lot of intuitive
114:36 sense to me so I I continue to have
114:39 questions about that myself Connie roblo
114:42 with a super sticker thank you so much
114:44 for that the squid with your description
114:47 of the condition of the girls it makes
114:49 no sense that we haven't heard about the
114:51 cops making a real effort to find where
114:54 the girls were killed it seems obvious
114:56 someone ran out of time to clean them
114:02 up yeah I mean they had seven years to
114:05 find suspects and locations and stuff
114:08 and they just didn't I mean the the the
114:11 state is they're laying the the
114:13 groundwork to to just double down on the
114:16 girls were were killed here uh I mean
114:20 I'm I'm I'm open to hearing more like
114:23 yes if if if massive amounts of blood
114:25 could have seeped into the ground and
114:26 then they were just moved you know like
114:28 a short distance in the
115:31 positioning for some reason that isn't
115:33 quite clear to me why Richard Allen
115:35 would do that
115:36 but they are going to try to establish
115:39 that large blood stain as being where
115:43 where the killings took place so I'm
115:45 going to want to see the testing of that
115:47 blood stain is it one of the girls is it
115:49 both of the girls uh if it's just one of
115:51 the girls then
115:53 where's the other you know if it's both
115:56 of them I'm going to still want to see
115:59 how how do we estimate the volume here
115:01 cuz it looks like I mean it looks like
115:07 maybe maybe being very generous a
115:11 gallon maybe being very generous a a
115:15 gallon I think that's being overly
115:17 generous generous
115:19 honestly I really it's a leader
115:24 call it two lers call it two
115:27 liters that's not
115:30 enough that's not enough there is a lot
116:32 of blood that should be there and I'm
116:34 just not seeing it so great show me the
116:38 uh show me the drain you know how how
116:40 fast does this ground drain you know
116:42 maybe maybe if maybe if this Blood could
116:45 have drained away maybe it's possible
116:47 but I am very very skeptical of this at
116:51 this point in time
116:54 some guy with cancer on a scale from 1
116:57 to 10 how bad is Judge goal is one one
116:01 bad or one good I mean I got Jo I got
116:05 judge go at like negative five right now
116:07 and she is um her demeanor in front of
116:10 the jury is radically different than it
116:14 is than it has been in these pre-trial
116:16 hearings I had commented before about
116:19 how she like during the Motions in
116:20 limony she just would not even hide her
116:22 her contempt for the defense her disdain
116:25 like she's got a sneer up there on the
116:27 bench at all times she is not doing that
116:29 at all with this jury she is very much
117:32 in the background uh she is she's got a
117:35 little bit of that judge Bev kenon uh
117:38 buttering up the jury uh kind of
117:41 demeanor to
117:42 her but that's the most of what the bulk
117:45 of what she's doing over the course of
117:46 the day there are not a lot of
117:48 objections of course I'm not seeing
117:50 what's happening at the sidebars because
117:52 they're going behind their little screen
117:54 and you know she's got the white noise
117:55 on so we can't hear what's happening of
117:57 course so who knows what's happening
117:00 that's not in the view of of of the
117:03 audience and the jury uh but when it is
117:05 in their view yeah she's on her best
117:07 behavior right now so that that is an
117:10 improvement uh but the disregard for the
117:13 law that's you you don't come back from
117:16 that with me when you're a judge you
117:18 have one job you have one job it's to
117:20 respect and uphold the law and and uh
117:24 I'm just I'm not seeing that I'm not
117:26 seeing that at all I'm seeing
117:29 uh I'm seeing a sense from her that she
118:33 is the
118:34 law and she's not you know if she wants
118:37 to be the law she needs to find
118:38 somewhere where she can like go run for
118:40 King instead of uh instead of for
118:43 judge AKA radar appreciated More Than
118:47 Words Andrea thank you thank you well
118:49 you're very welcome thanks for being
118:50 here with me
118:52 simcha with a super
118:55 sticker Priscilla Stevenson with a super
118:57 stickers thank you guys so much and
118:60 typically unique just saying thank you
118:02 well thank you to all of you guys thank
118:04 you for your support thank you for being
118:06 here really does mean a lot to me it's
118:08 making all of this worthwhile sweet be
118:11 me tomorrow's autopsy report will there
118:14 be toxicology if they weren't killed
118:16 there all unimaginable things could have
118:18 happened thank you for your ethical
118:20 coverage well that's a nice thing to say
118:22 say I appreciate you uh I appreciate you
118:24 putting it like that I I am trying to be
118:26 sensitive
118:28 um and uh and fair you know I'm I'm not
119:31 I'm not I don't I'm not here with an axe
119:33 to grind I just really want to know what
119:34 happened and I want to know who's to
119:36 blame you know I want to know who's to
119:38 blame for this uh I would expect yes
119:40 there will be a toxicology um that would
119:43 be pretty typical in a case like this uh
119:48 it's just it gives you information about
119:50 you know the story of of how the crime
119:53 took place were they drugged were they
119:56 you know just whatever uh tell tells you
119:60 a little bit
119:01 more I am looking forward to the details
119:03 of the autopsy I mean not looking
119:05 forward obviously uh but it's it's it's
119:09 very important information and it's
119:11 information that there's really no
119:13 substitute for it that uh that
119:16 examination
119:18 just provides a lot a lot of details a
119:22 lot of a lot of the parts of the story
119:24 that we can't get from other
119:26 places shell urba you said one of two
119:29 questions posed by the jury uh were
120:31 asked do you know my only one was no
120:33 because we don't know what the other one
120:34 was we uh typically when a jury asks a
120:38 question and it's not allowed to be
120:40 asked it's because uh it violates the
120:42 Rules of Evidence in some way it might
120:44 be asking about something that's been
120:46 excluded uh it might be asking for
120:48 something that's inadmissible so I don't
120:51 I don't know the details of of what it
120:53 is or or why um but just noted I think
120:56 that is the first one so far that they
120:58 haven't been allowed to ask I did I did
120:00 see from uh from lawyer Lee's recap on
120:02 Saturday that they asked a bunch of
120:04 questions on Saturday uh as well so this
120:06 is definitely this is an attentive jury
120:09 uh they're sharp they're focused on the
120:12 details um the entire day you know they
120:16 they they were riveted they were riveted
120:18 um they're paying very close attention
120:20 to to what they're saying so
120:23 that's a very good sign you know it
120:25 means that they they're concerned about
120:27 the details they know the details matter
120:29 and they are really invested in getting
121:31 this right and at the end of the day
121:34 that's really all you want from a jury
121:35 you know you want them to want to get it
121:37 right
121:39 so that's it guys this went on slightly
121:41 longer than I intended to Dory thank you
121:45 bunches too uh I am going to crash now I
121:48 am going to uh get myself a couple hours
121:51 of sleep
121:53 before I have to head back out there and
121:55 uh try not to lose my voice I think I'll
121:58 get it back I'm I'm pretty sure that um
121:01 I know I sound terrible but I'm pretty
121:02 sure it's mostly from just yelling at
121:05 the fights on Saturdays I work the
121:07 corner and that's really like that's
121:10 like my main job my my job is I I put
121:12 the stool up in the corner for for the
121:14 for the fighter to sit down in between
121:15 rounds I keep track of the water bottle
121:18 and you yell you know you got to yell
121:20 you yell them you know they're encour
121:22 encouragement you know what what
121:23 openings you see the things that they're
121:25 doing you know all that stuff you like
121:27 yell constantly so I was thinking about
121:29 it what did it work out nine minutes no
122:33 because everybody fights two minute
122:35 rounds so but that's still that's 18 18
122:38 minutes 18 minutes Sol of like solid
122:40 yelling it'll that'll do a number on
122:42 your voice so that that was on me my bad
122:45 guys but uh I will try to uh I will try
122:48 to get it back and I'm sure the lack of
122:50 sleep isn't helping
122:52 so today on the notepads uh I was I'd
122:55 say about 10 pages shy of a full legal
122:58 pad maybe dozen Pages shy um not quite
122:03 as many as
122:04 yesterday uh because mostly for today
122:08 I'm just tracking I'm tracking all the
122:10 exhibits you know I'm tracking them by
122:11 number and the description of what they
122:13 are and stuff so that uh I have good
122:15 notations of that because what happens
122:17 is later on in trial uh as it proceeds
122:21 people start referring back to the
122:23 things that are already admitted and so
122:25 they'll have the witness on the stand
122:26 and they'll be like well you know
122:28 showing you what's been previously
122:29 admitted as exhibit 42 doesn't this
123:31 completely undermine what you just said
123:33 you know not really but something along
123:35 those lines so then you're going like
123:36 what's exhibit 54 I can't see it so now
123:39 I have I have my record of of the
123:40 exhibits that I'm trying to trying to
123:42 maintain so that uh we can keep track of
123:45 that kind of thing but otherwise yeah
123:47 the testimony itself uh far less far
123:51 less impactful than than just than just
123:54 what we what we saw what we witnessed
123:55 today absolutely horrifying gruesome
123:58 stomach turning
123:02 appalling once again just
123:06 uh just really appalled for the families
123:09 to have to sit in the courtroom you know
123:10 and witness that and just kind of amazed
123:12 that they that they are doing that you
123:14 know it's it's
123:16 obviously so important to them because I
123:18 just imagine imagine what it feels like
123:23 to see that and so to uh to take that on
123:27 you know they they have a a strong
123:29 purpose and a
124:32 strong strong Compass guiding them to
124:34 make it through that
124:36 courtroom so I really do uh I really do
124:39 hope the best hope the best for
124:41 them whatever that might be you know
124:44 with this particular case regardless of
124:47 the outcome you just you really you
124:49 really want the family you really want
124:51 the family to be able to get some
124:54 closure I don't know if they're going to
124:56 get it
124:58 but all right guys that's it for me I am
124:02 on my last legs thank you again for
124:05 joining me really appreciate all of you
124:07 it's been amazing these last several
124:10 days just seeing how many of you are
124:12 turning out interested in this trial
124:14 that's what's keeping us going you know
124:16 that's why we're doing it so I'm going
124:18 to keep plugging forward and I will
124:20 certainly let you know if judge uh judge
124:21 gold does does anything with my motion
124:23 I'll tell you straight up I'm honestly
124:25 not really expecting her to um the easy
124:27 the path of least resistance for her is
124:29 to ignore it um she can so she knows
125:33 that if she rules on it uh that that's
125:35 what tees up you know the next step the
125:38 ability to take it further so I think
125:40 she's just going to not find time to
125:43 deal with it you got to built an excuse
125:45 because you're uh you're in the thick of
125:47 the busy part of trial but you know Hope
125:51 Springs Eternal something could happen
125:53 and uh bottom line we've got the record
125:55 now of uh of what's going on in there
125:56 and how wrong it is so with that guys I
125:00 am going to say good night thank you
125:02 again I will look forward to fingers
125:05 crossed getting in the courtroom
125:06 tomorrow and bringing you my recap at
125:09 the end of the day so I will see you all
125:11 then take care have a wonderful evening