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## [Dom3] Draft: Etimhara Victorious

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Winnah
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Post by Winnah » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:10 pm

Tuatha 856
edit: I updated the template spoilered on page 3 with the picks to date. Still has placeholder units. Otherwise functional. Once the recruit everywhere units have been picked, I'll update it again and start testing PD to ensure there are no bugs there.
Last edited by Winnah on Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Mercenary Company of Sachs picks:
Celestial Master 803 (Tien Chi)
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Shiritai
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Post by Shiritai » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:27 pm

Still a lot of solid picks left. Huichan will choose the Gygja 785 (Jotunheim).
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Tador
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Post by Tador » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:37 am

amblis chooses Couatl 1194 (Mictlan)
Last edited by Tador on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:10 pm

Etimhara will nab:
Demonbred 87 (Abysia)
And I will giggle hysterically while doing so:
Etimhara
Zamzummite + Uba ; Arch Theurg + Demonbred
F 1(2)
A 0(3)
W 2(2)
E 3(3)
S 1(4)
D 2(2)
N 2(2)
B 0(2)
I think the raw path numbers speak for themselves (obviously that's what I was gunning for). My mages tend to be expensive but at least they're mostly sacred.
Amblis (Tador):
Starspawn + High Seraph ; Imperial Alchemist + Couatl
F 0(2)
A 4(4)
W 3(3)
E 2(2)
S 5(5)
D 2(2)
N 0(3)
B 0(0)
This is a bit odd. Starspawn + High Seraph make up for a lack of path diversity with an excess of awesome - but I would've taken Grand Masters (for F) and Panic Apostates (for B/N) as my capital picks here. I'm not sure what the master plan is here, I'm guessing the Couatls are in the mix as flying priests?
Huichan (Shiritai)
Pan + Theurg ; Warlock Apprentice + Gygja
F 0(0)
A 1(1)
W 1(1)
E 3(3)
S 2(2)
D 1(3)
N 4(4)
B 1(3)
Four rock-solid choices individually, but I'm not seeing as much synergy as I'd like.
In particular, I find the Gygja a bit of a mystery choice here - just because you need astral? Just to screw over someone else (I haven't done the math yet but am almost certain *someone* was screwed by that). Here is where a pick of Grand Master (F/S) or Couatl (A/S) would've made more sense
Sachs (Zinegata):
Vaetti Hag + Vanjarl; Talmai Elder + Celestial Master
F 0(3)
A 2(2)
W 0(3)
E 0(3)
S 1(3)
D 1(1)
N 1(1)
B 1(1)
Raw path totals aren't so great, but actually this is pretty solid; Vanjarls are thugs, Talmai Elders forge them shit and cover path deficiencies well. Vaetti Hags are dirt-cheap researchers/blood hunters and disposable combat mages for minor but useful spam. Assume high magic paths, including some blood, on his God, and I can see where this is going.
Tsimzan (K)
King of the Deep + Star Spawn (Priest) ; Vanadrott + Priest King
F 2(2)
A 0(4)
W 5(5)
E 2(2)
S 2(2)
D 1(1)
N 0(2)
B 0(2)
K took the Star Spawn priests to use as reverse-communion slaves with a powerful blessing. He will kill us all this way, mark my words.
Anyway, in spite of making some strange choices, he has very good coverage and some desirable features/special powers on his mages, so he's done very well, if in an unexpected way.
Ulvolge (angelfromanotherpin)
Marshmaster + Priestess ; Adon + Rishi
F 0(2)
A 0(0)
W 2(2)
E 0(2)
S 1(4)
D 3(3)
N 3(3)
B 0(0)
This is a weird one. I assume that the Priestess + Adon was his master plan from the beginning, since Adon's tend to pick up a lot of nasty afflictions, and Marshmasters have fantastic path-synergy with the Adon.
So here we've got some planning and foresight that was quite successful, leaving angel with both a powerful recruit-everywhere battle caster *and* an exemplary recruitable thug chassis, plus still-decent path coverage.
We'll see how this works out. Personally, I would've shuffled stuff around to get air and blood covered rather than having Priestesses, although given the draft order that option may not've been as easy for angel.
Carthacia (Winnah)
Jotun Skratti + Sorcerer (Machaka) ; Tuatha + Priest Smith
F 2(2)
A 0(4)
W 3(3)
E 1(1)
S 0(0)
D 2(2)
N 3(3)
B 3(3)
Winnah has a problem - there is a giant glowing "L" written on his forehead with eldritch energies - and he can't see it because he doesn't have astral!
Skratti plus forge bonuses, I see where this is going. Maybe he'll luck out and get an iron order tower. So, watch me get torn to shreads by vicious werewolves, but I think lack of astral may be a critical flaw.
Manditou (Korwin)
Bakemono Sorcerer + Mystic ; Bean Sidhe + Astrologer
F 3(3)
A 0(2)
W 2(2)
E 3(3)
S 2(4)
D 3(3)
N 0(2)
B 0(0)
The Bakemono Sorcerer is a good start to any selection where you want to feel big in the pants, and the Astrologer pick makes a lot of sense especially after my crowing about astral. At first the Mystic pick seemed weak, but now that I think about it, I can see Mystic + Bakemono working out very well; they have many paths in common but the Mystic brings Astral/X to the table, and communions. With Astral/Earth, you can even have mystics backing the Bakemono, in earth magic for example.
But I'm at a loss to explain the Bean Sidh (in preference to the Tuatha, which Korwin could've had instead.)
Nimtir (FrankTrollman)
Master Smith + Alchemist of the Five Elements; Warlock + Black Sorcerer
F 1(3)
A 1(1)
W 1(1)
E 2(3)
S 3(3)
D 0(2)
N 1(1)
B 4(4)
Heh, I was right! Musings preserved below. Franks done pretty well considering he drafted late and his recruit-everywhere mages are cheap.
----
Well, Frank is noticeably short on death magic. Who's left that Frank might profitably nab? Keep in mind, he's got Warlocks; each Warlock has a 20% chance of being even more awesome than a vanilla Warlock. So he's not going to be recruiting his second capital-only mage in any numbers.
Grand Thaumaturg 670 (Ermor) - S2D2[AWSD], 340gp Sacred
-- These guys are not worth the ruinous cost if they can't reanimate; but for a capital-only sacred recruited O(4) times in the entire game he may not care. D3 is the only new magic they open up.
Black Sorcerer 894 (Machaka) - F2E2D1[FEDN], 250gp
-- Death 2, but actually opens up F4 since they can make flaming skulls? I guess this'll be Frank's pick, since he can recruit just a few of them and get a skull-staff and flaming-skull maker, then get back to Warlocks.
Oracle of the Ancients (Agartha) - E3D1, 400gp Sacred
-- Thuggable for combo with his smiths. Okay, I'm kidding. I just want to emphasize that these guys are awful. Why are you paying 400gp for a 4-pick mage!!?!?!
Crone of Avalon 153 (Man) - A2N3[AWEN], 300gp Sacred
-- A great mage, and unclaimed. Adds 5 to Frank's base path maxima, so best in that sense, all paths being equal. All paths are not equal however: A3 is exactly not enough to do anything cool, so I think Frank won't take her.
He might take something cheap and just assume he's always going to make Warlocks when can afford to do so?
Outside chance he'll take a Pandemoniac (thuggable?) or High Priest of the Sky (flying magic unit commander?), Sorceress (can still make a flaming skull, cheap? theoretically thugable?).... theoretically the Grand Master, Sun Priest, Rain Priest, Dwarven Smith and Deep Seer all provide a pick or two of extra magic maxima, but nothing remotely as useful as 2D.
Last edited by DrPraetor on Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:17 am, edited 4 times in total.
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K
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Post by K » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:03 pm

Priest King 1190 (Mictlan)
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Shiritai
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Post by Shiritai » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:04 pm

> DrPraetor wrote: In particular, I find the Gygja a bit of a mystery choice here - just because you need astral? Just to screw over someone else (I haven't done the math yet but am almost certain *someone* was screwed by that). Here is where a pick of Grand Master (F/S) or Couatl (A/S) would've made more sense

I was honestly torn between the Gygja and Grand Master. The Gygja gives me access to B7 B6 without summons and a bit more death, as well as some blood ritual flexibility. Grand Master on the other hand gives me an eventual F6 and S6. But in the end I went with the more robust mage that seemed like it would synergize better with my earlier pick of warlock apprentice, and there are a lot more astral gods to choose from than blood gods.
Edit: Bad math
Last edited by Shiritai on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:45 pm

Rishi 1144 (Bandar Log)
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Winnah
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Post by Winnah » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:07 pm

Priest Smith.
Fuck it. I was overthinking the remaining choices. I could spend an hour weighing up the pros and cons without making any progress on a decision.
Other commanders I was thinking of were the Sky High Priest and the Dwarven Smith.

> Winnah has a problem - there is a giant glowing "L" written on his forehead with eldritch energies - and he can't see it because he doesn't have astral!

Oh noes! I guess I'll just have to improvise.
Last edited by Winnah on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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K
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Post by K » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:14 pm

How does this notation work?

> Tsimzan (K)
> King of the Deep + Star Spawn (Priest) ; Vanadrott + Priest King
> F 2(2)
> A 0(4)
> W 5(5)
> E 2(2)
> S 2(2)
> D 1(1)
> N 0(2)
> B 0(2)

I assumed the left number was path minimums and the right was with path maximums with randoms of all mages combined, but that's not the way the above set was calculated.
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Shiritai
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Post by Shiritai » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:26 pm

> K wrote:I assumed the left number was path minimums and the right was with path maximums with randoms of all mages combined, but that's not the way the above set was calculated.

I'm pretty sure it's recruitable everywhere maximum (overall maximum).
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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:31 pm

Shiritai has it right, yeah.
Chaosium rules are made of unicorn pubic hair and cancer. --AncientH
When you talk, all I can hear is "DunningKruger" over and over again like you were a god damn Pokemon. --Username17
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:14 pm

Hi from Munich
Astrologer 301 (Arco)
Last edited by Korwin on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:40 am

It just occurred to me that you could get some hilarious PD shenanigans going by selecting one of the one-battle-only gladiator units from Ermor or Pythium. They're very cheap for their stats because they desert after one fight. Of course, PD is generated fresh each time.
Probably not worth one of your troop slots, but still.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:10 am

Nimtir drafts:
Black Sorcerer 894 (Machaka)
I will be honest: I didn't get very much of what I wanted. My goal was to take Master Smith, Uba, Warlock, Tuatha. That would have given me strong coverage of all magics. But I drafted late in both Capital and non-capital drafts, meaning that I was unable to get a Water/Death caster with my build-anywhere commander and therefore couldn't grab an Air/Nature commander (the Mother of Avalon was still available, but didn't do me any good because I still needed a source of Death).
And now we are drafting troops.
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:44 am

> But I'm at a loss to explain the Bean Sidh (in preference to the Tuatha, which Korwin could've had instead.)

Bean Sidhe is there for reallatively easy clamming, wont dont plan to recruit many...

> Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.

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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:18 am

> Korwin wrote:

> > But I'm at a loss to explain the Bean Sidh (in preference to the Tuatha, which Korwin could've had instead.)

> Bean Sidhe is there for reallatively easy clamming, wont dont plan to recruit many...

Okay, yeah, if you only recruit a few anyway, you'd rather they're all guaranteed to be clammable. Fair enough, I can see that.
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Akula
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Post by Akula » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:02 am

Imma do my own draft analysis (thanks DrP, I like your epic heros mod by the way):

> DrPraetor wrote:Etimhara
> Zamzummite + Uba ; Arch Theurg + Demonbred
> F 1(2)
> A 0(3)
> W 2(2)
> E 3(3)
> S 1(4)
> D 2(2)
> N 2(2)
> B 0(2)

Good path coverage, otherwise not much synergy between the picks. The uba will exist only to clam, and the Arch Theurg will exist only to use that income for the most part. But it doesn't really matter as Zamzummites do pretty much everything reasonably well. His game will come down to leveraging his great giant mages, with the rest of his picks mostly opening up diversity. If there is a weakness here, it is that the high cost of the Zamzummite might mean he lacks them early in numbers.

> Amblis (Tador):
> Starspawn + High Seraph ; Imperial Alchemist + Couatl
> F 0(2)
> A 4(4)
> W 3(3)
> E 2(2)
> S 5(5)
> D 2(2)
> N 0(3)
> B 0(0)

Tador had great positions in pretty much every round of this draft. Given that, I think he did a really poor job. His picks duplicate both paths and roles, and none of them are cheap. What he does have going for him is raw power, High Seraphs can blow stuff to pieces with the right research, and starspawn are also capable of being terrifying. However, getting all this online will take a while, and he might just regret not taking a cheaper mage instead of the High Seraph. He will regret not taking a communion slave with both the Couatl and the Starspawn on his roster. The Imperial Alchemist clams, but I have to believe that there were better choices for that.

> Huichan (Shiritai)
> Pan + Theurg ; Warlock Apprentice + Gygja
> F 0(0)
> A 1(1)
> W 1(1)
> E 3(3)
> S 2(2)
> D 1(3)
> N 4(4)
> B 1(3)

His capital kinda only does one thing, which makes me think that maybe the Gygja could have been something else. But it really doesn't matter that much, because these picks have some mad synergy (Also some points of complete conflict, mainly that he wants order and also doesn't want it). If, and that might be a big if, he can get rolling, he has a complete nation already. The pan will generate blockers and buff them to make a breakthrough hard, and then he has a super communion to lay the hurt down from the back lines. I expect him to draft troops to help him survive years one and two, and maybe an awake SC. The more I think about these picks, the more I like them together.

> Sachs (Zinegata):
> Vaetti Hag + Vanjarl; Talmai Elder + Celestial Master
> F 0(3)
> A 2(2)
> W 0(3)
> E 0(3)
> S 1(3)
> D 1(1)
> N 1(1)
> B 1(1)

I think Zinegata outpicked himself with the Vanjarl. While it tightened up blood for everyone else, it also left him without a real battlemage. In my opinion he should have gone with the high seraph or the mystic. The good news is that he will be able to get a lot of blood slaves, and he will also have good mid game communions with hags and Celestial masters. His research base is also pretty great. The downside is that he has to take a bless to make the Vanjarl pick go, and the Talmai Elder is not actually going to get him thug gear without a fair amount of luck; it will give him some very durable mages and cheap high end gear though. I think this nation can work, but how well will come down to the troop picks.

> Tsimzan (K)
> King of the Deep + Star Spawn (Priest) ; Vanadrott + Priest King
> F 2(2)
> A 0(4)
> W 5(5)
> E 2(2)
> S 2(2)
> D 1(1)
> N 0(2)
> B 0(2)

This is just really solid. KotDs bring the battlemagic, and starspawn can research and eventually hit the ground as formidable mages in their own right. Vanadrotts and Priest Kings mostly cover holes in his existing lineup, but are both potentially exciting. Priest kings will let him get a taxation strat on if he wants one, and also give a very safe early game with H3 access. I think the big choice he has is what to do for troops, as he has a solid basis for anything right now.

> Ulvolge (angelfromanotherpin)
> Marshmaster + Priestess ; Adon + Rishi
> F 0(2)
> A 0(0)
> W 2(2)
> E 0(2)
> S 1(4)
> D 3(3)
> N 3(3)
> B 0(0)

I personally love these picks. Marshmasters kinda do everything he wants early, and are great late game. With Rishis in the mix he has perfect mages to go for tartarians. Priestess means that he will be able to recover any Adons he does recruit and allow the Rishis to mindhunt with impunity, so I think it was an okay pick. Rishis can also act as teleporting thug hunters and powerful ritual casters. There are two potential weaknesses I can see. First, the Adon needs a bless to be a top flight early thug, which will be expensive and difficult to justify if he can't get some troops to go with it; he should be impossible to deny completely though. Potentially more seriously, the closest thing he has to easy backup for his Marshmasters are his Adons, which are a bit expensive in terms of battle mages. I still think this draft ended up working out well for him despite those issues though.

> Carthacia (Winnah)
> Jotun Skratti + Sorcerer (Machaka) ; Tuatha + Priest Smith
> F 2(2)
> A 0(4)
> W 3(3)
> E 1(1)
> S 0(0)
> D 2(2)
> N 3(3)
> B 3(3)

I'm not sure that the sorcerer was the best pick here (I would have gone for the Imperial Geomancer or the Witch Hunter), I think he might have wanted to get someone with astral and some battle magic potential and pick up a death mage instead of the Tuatha. But his picks do give him a brutal raiding thug punch, with enough battlemagic to back it up. I'm excited to see where he takes this, that sorcerer pick might work out to be an unexpectedly good ritualist and researcher for him. His Skratti's low MR could be a huge achilles heel for him though. Also, the Tuatha kinda demands a light bless to use as a thug, which will be wasted on the rest of his units.

> Manditou (Korwin)
> Bakemono Sorcerer + Mystic ; Bean Sidhe + Astrologer
> F 3(3)
> A 0(2)
> W 2(2)
> E 3(3)
> S 2(4)
> D 3(3)
> N 0(2)
> B 0(0)

This seems pretty straightforward to me, great battlemages and the Banshee for clamming. I will be interested to see how he recruits. He could lean on the Bakemono very heavily, or he could use them as speciality mages. Either would probably work as these are all high quality picks. That late astrologer snag was boss. He probably wants troops that can keep him safe early and some chaff to block later. If he can't secure early troop presence he will probably be forced into an awake god.

> Nimtir (FrankTrollman)
> Master Smith + Alchemist of the Five Elements; Warlock + Black Sorcerer
> F 1(3)
> A 1(1)
> W 1(1)
> E 2(3)
> S 3(3)
> D 0(2)
> N 1(1)
> B 4(4)

Frank did well given poor positions in a lot of these rounds. The master smith pick was good, and despite his own insistence, he could get a lot out of the forge bonuses. He has a cheap battle mage, and great ritual magic in his capital. I don't love the Alchemist of the Five Elements, I guess they can theoretically get him clams and fetishes, but I can't see him recruiting many of them unless the randoms screw him. His primary concern is that he is outmuscled by most of his competition right now. He also didn't get the complete magic coverage he wanted, but I think he has what he really needs.
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Tador
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Post by Tador » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:19 am

Amblis takes Eagle Warriors (Mictlan)
My choices my be poor but i have an excuse its my first draft and i play Dom3 since 2 month ^^
Last edited by Tador on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:36 am

Ulvolge picks the Dai Bakemono 1397.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:38 am

> Tador wrote: My choices my be poor but i have an excuse its my first draft and i play Dom3 since 2 month ^^

None of the choices are individually bad. The sorting algorythm is fairly obvious: take the biggest thing available at each choice. That´s not a bad way to do it actually. Slayer, Jotun Herse, Starspawn, Lizard King, High Seraph, Imperial Alchemist, Couatl, Eagle Warrior. That´s basically just a hit parade of the scariest things available at each decision point. But aside from the Lizard King´s admitted synergy with the Eagle Warrior (a build-anywhere Priest 3 combined with build-anywhere horde sacreds is a nice combo), I´m not seeing a lot of synergy anywhere.

> Akula wrote: His capital kinda only does one thing, which makes me think that maybe the Gygja could have been something else.

In light of the Gygja, the Warlock Apprentice only makes sense as a spoiler pick to keep other people from having Blood. The real Abysia does not make a lot of Warlock Apprentices, because they need to make Warlocks, and having Gygjas on hand is basically the same dynamic. Each Gygja is individually better than a Warlock Apprentice, and with the double-random, Huichan is going to end up making an enormous number of them in order to get all the sweet possibilities.
As is, three factions are without a blood suit, so the Warlock Apprentice pick (and the Vanjarl pick) can be looked at as successful spoiler grabs.
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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:52 am

Well, I hate to be too obvious, but:
Longbowman 59 (Man)
and thus I'm taking fire magic on my God .
Chaosium rules are made of unicorn pubic hair and cancer. --AncientH
When you talk, all I can hear is "DunningKruger" over and over again like you were a god damn Pokemon. --Username17
Fuck off with the pony murder shit. --Grek
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:01 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:As is, three factions are without a blood suit, so the Warlock Apprentice pick (and the Vanjarl pick) can be looked at as successful spoiler grabs.
> -Username17

Teehee.
To be honest though, I also picked the Vanjarl because I have more experience using them.
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Post by Username17 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:01 pm

Nimtir drafts the White One (1142) Bandar Log
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:11 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:Nimtir drafts the White One (1142) Bandar Log

Nerts! That's the only recruit-anywhere sacred I wanted. But then, I wanted the Dai Bakemono archer more.
Oh well, opens up my second choice a lot.
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