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## 10th level issues

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

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Wrenfield
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Wrenfield » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:28 pm

Just to keep the momentum rolling here (without alternate rules bog-down), I'm all for Frank hitting the gong and announcing a finalized set of his House Rules. None of his list from the above sounds too out-of-place or too controversial. Since Franks suggestions don't entail a huge learning curve deviation from 3.5 play and they work to balance out the aggregate power of the various party archetypes (tank, skill/trap/stealth guy, primary spellslingers, etc.), I'm all for accepting his finalized list without a hitch.
This way, we can move on to the next phase and get some party building action going.
If y'all want to hammer out some more rules detail though, that's cool too.
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Kirin_Corrigan
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Kirin_Corrigan » Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:44 pm

Allow me to ask it again: how will be handled mechanics based solely on XP costs, like the Kensai's Signature Weapon?
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RandomCasualty
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by RandomCasualty » Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:48 pm

> Kirin_Corrigan at [unixtime wrote:1118583857[/unixtime]]Allow me to ask it again: how will be handled mechanics based solely on XP costs, like the Kensai's Signature Weapon?

Those are pretty easy. You'd just make them free. The Kensai ability is capped by kensai level anyway, so instead of having a class feature that charges you XP, you just have a class feature that doean't charge you XP. Kensai is hardly a cutting edge power class anyway, so I don't see it making much of a difference.
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Kirin_Corrigan
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Kirin_Corrigan » Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:06 pm

Indeed. I just want to make sure that that is what the DM has in mind.
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Essence
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Essence » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:53 pm

Great, so can we get a poll running of each of these issues and their potential solutions, so we can get a fix on what we'd like to see done about them?
Either that or have the DMs (who I believe are now Frank and one of Kirin, DDB, or myself) decide via fiat and let everyone know?
Can the US government be uncorrupted?
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Wrenfield
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Wrenfield » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:44 am

If we go the poll route, that's an immense amount of work for the polltakers and a lot of time allocated to said task via debate and details-niggling. Polls are wonderful for keeping everybody involved in the decision-making process. But they also have their drawbacks ...
I personally think the majority of us trust Frank and whomever assumes the 2nd DM role. Odds are they will make final decisions and fiat ajudications that will rankle some of us from time to time. But thats okay too - you can't keep everyone happy all of the time.
Expediency and momentum is often a good idea in getting online games up and running. Wrangling over house rules can potentially take a long time.
My thinking is that if we can instill trust in the DMs to make a final and reasonable house rule list, this can help jump start the immense amount of time it takes for the character (and party synergy) building process. Which is traditionally the time where DM's finish their final stages of planning and online mapmaking. Also note, creating detailed character sheets for 10th level players can be quite time-consuming, due to the tons of gold floating around and the wide-open choices of gear purchasing. The DMs have their work cut out for them too - approving & pricing custom-made magic items, playing accountant and overseeing legal builds and cost expenditures, etc. The tedium to this stage can be quite overwhelming.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm harping on this. But the majority of online games fail or fizzle-out in the creation phase or the first 3 weeks of play. Since I think we have something special here, I want to ensure we avoid that potential pitfall.
Just my 2 centavos.
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Username17
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Username17 » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:31 am

OK...
On Kensai-like abilities: just don't pay XP. XP totals are the supposed measure of power, so it doesn't make any sense for you to have more XP if you haven't activated your class features. Of course, the current leader in desired games is It Ends in Darkness which in turn has no place whatsoever for The Kensai Order on which the PrC depends. A class that is similar enough could certainly be made, and I see no possibility of it having to pay XP to turn its class features on. That's completely bass ackwards.
On Magic Items: Magic Item Creation in It Ends in Darkness simply isn't much of a concern. Mezoamerica simply doesn't have any accessible far realms and the adventure actually is time-critical by its very nature. So I'd be up for people being able to make magic items for free, so long as they put the time into it. I don't see a problem with non-spellcasters taking item creation feats even, save that it migh not end up being all that useful.
On Equipment: Many many magic items in various source books are unbalanced. Also, the assumed tech level of D&D is not analagous to any technology level ever from anywhere. And it's even less representitive of the Teotihuacanian Empire than it is of the Plague-era European setups that it's supposedly based on. As such, it seems way honkin easier to just have the DM assign all starting equipment. All of it.
So you don't have to worry how many gp an item is worth, you just get an equipment list based on the technological abilities of the region, the needs of the party, and the subjectively perceived power discrepencies within the proposed party.
That's something of a cop-out, but it does work at all. Remember:
A gentleman's agreement is the best solution for a game and the worst solution for the game.
-Username17
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Wrenfield
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Wrenfield » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:29 pm

> FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1118629871[/unixtime]]OK...
> On Equipment: Many many magic items in various source books are unbalanced. Also, the assumed tech level of D&D is not analagous to any technology level ever from anywhere. And it's even less representitive of the Teotihuacanian Empire than it is of the Plague-era European setups that it's supposedly based on. As such, it seems way honkin easier to just have the DM assign all starting equipment. All of it.
> So you don't have to worry how many gp an item is worth, you just get an equipment list based on the technological abilities of the region, the needs of the party, and the subjectively perceived power discrepencies within the proposed party.

Interesting. For 10th level players though, one of the more time-intensive and fun parts of character building is the "spending spree" at character-gen time. With 49K (or whatever you decide on), I'm sure everyone would like a varied amount of purchasing options. Especially the skills player, since Rogues tend to be the most overloaded of the character types.
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dbb
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by dbb » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:47 pm

I have no big issue with having the DM assign equipment, as presumably this will at least ensure no one ends up with a big-ticket item that is of little use in the context of the campaign, and also aid in balancing weaker characters against stronger.
It would be nice to have some modest amount of discretionary cash to allocate according to preference, though; perhaps items bought off of a short "approved" list. Or perhaps if there're some items you just don't think you can live without, you can just request them as part of your character writeup and presumably that will be taken into account.
--d.
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MrWaeseL
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by MrWaeseL » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:21 pm

I don't know. 49k is manageable, but at higher levels, buying equipment for newly created characters is a major pain in the ass.
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Kirin_Corrigan
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Kirin_Corrigan » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:08 am

> MrWaeseL wrote:at higher levels, buying equipment for newly created characters is a major pain in the ass.

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MrWaeseL
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by MrWaeseL » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:02 pm

You ever spend 20 million for a 45th level character? Yuck!
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Kirin_Corrigan
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### Re: 10th level issues

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Post by Kirin_Corrigan » Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:06 pm

I could spend that much (and I did) in no time at all. A friend of mine and I every now and then brainstorm and generate up to 60th level characters just for fun.
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