# The Gaming Den

Welcome to the Gaming Den.

Skip to content

## We're not talking about 'the war' enough

Mundane & Pointless Stuff I Must Share: The Off Topic Forum

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply

- Print view

289 posts

- Page 7 of 12
  - Jump to page:
- Previous
- 1
- …
- 5
- 6
- 7
- 8
- 9
- …
- 12
- Next

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:14 pm

> josephbt at [unixtime wrote:1154762720[/unixtime]]I had absolutely no intention of posting on this topic. Israel really doesn't concern me. I enjoyed the discussion because a lot of good arguments were given. But then my blood boiled.
> It was because i saw Xander77's original post.
> You see, my pressure went skyhigh because your words made me hate myself. And I hated me because your words made me file you into a type and i really hate doing that. I hate placing people into drawers. Now why? I was in one of them.

...
This is, frankly, the most interesting post I've seen on this thread. I'm not sure if we'll be able to actually "establish a meaningful dialogue" - I'm too defensive to actually see if you have a point, and you've obviously already dismissed most of what I'm saying as hate filled propoganda (a reiteration of the "facts and opinions" bit - obviously, everything in my post is filtered through my subjective pov. Nevertheless, the parts taht aren't marked as opinions, are the ones that neither side contests, and are therefore as objectively true as is possible, given the time and place).
I don't have the time to answer at the moment but I will consider what you said while I'm at work, and will provide a full answer once I get back. I'm afaraid I'll only be talking to myself, but isn't that what most political... opinon givers... do?
Top

Oberoni
  Knight
  Posts: 386
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Oberoni » Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:13 pm

> Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1154765873[/unixtime]]

> > Oberoni at [unixtime wrote:1154745072[/unixtime]]And I'm still pretty certain that the a-bombs we used against Japan were horrific (I mean, they're atomic bombs), but the alternative solutions for ending the war would have been far more costly in terms of lives and money for all sides involved.

> That's the Oberoni fallacy all over again.
> History says that there were two intentional mistranslations - Japan offered to entertain surrender the week prior to the bombing of Hiroshima. Only we decided it sounded better to forget this particular set of envoys, even though they eventually led to the treaty signing.
> -Crissa

I'm just going to go ahead and assume that you're not the actual super-top-secret bearer of history, and the other sources I've read and seen have at least as good of a chance of being accurate about the whole affair as you do.
So, while I'm sure some Japanese - I'd imagine lots of Japanese (including many in the government) - thought surrender was a pretty sweet idea at the time, the military higher-ups who wanted to fight to the last breath were not so keen on the idea.
Ergo, the bombs.
P. S. since I'm sure you're looking at something that shows you that all the important Japanese people were about to throw in the towel, and our nuking was utterly uncalled for...if you could throw me a link (or name of the book, whatever), I'd like to check it out. No point in assuming my research is 100% factually correct and yours isn't, at least not without checking yours out first.
Top

Oberoni
  Knight
  Posts: 386
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Oberoni » Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:58 pm

> josephbt at [unixtime wrote:1154762720[/unixtime]]I had absolutely no intention of posting on this topic. Israel really doesn't concern me. I enjoyed the discussion because a lot of good arguments were given. But then my blood boiled.
> It was because i saw Xander77's original post.

Hmmmmm...ok, question. What would the "good" initial post from Xander have consisted of? What could he have said that would make you say "wow, that was the most awesome insight from an Israeli dude ever?"
Top

Username17
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 29894
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Username17 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:05 pm

The A-Bomb argment is a long running one, with ample evidence on both sides. But while it can't ever be resolved to anyone's satisfaction, it also isn't especially relevant to the current war.
Facts:
[*] Truman was aware that Moscow was moving into position to continue its war on the Axis on the Eastern Front, and thus if the war proceeded for more than a few months longer the Nippon islands almost certainly would have been partitioned like Deutchland was.
[*] Truman was aware that actual house-to-house fighting over Tokyo would cost an unbelievable amount of US casualties.
[*] Truman was aware that some members of the Tokyo government were feeling out the possibilities of surrender before the bomb dropped.
[*] Truman was aware that some members of the Tokyo government were confidently predicting that the nation would fight to the last man, woman, and child until every last Nippon citizen was dead or the round-eyes were repulsed.
---
Uh... right. So you can point to your favorite fact and show conclusively that Truman was a visionary or a demon. It can be seen as anything from blatant cold-war posturing to a final hammer-blow against the Fascist forces of the East in the name of liberty... and we'll never know because Truman is dead.
Yes, the Nippon empire conquered more land area and killed more people than their Nazi allies. And yes, they fought the war with an irrational tenacity that left them reviled by their opponents. But on the other hand, yes the Soviet forces were coming to the rescue anyway, and yes Nippon had already been crushed beyond any chance of mounting or sustaining a meaningful war effort.
But really, while this topic is fascinating, it's not in fact this topic. It's some other topic, and one which will be continued to be debated for as long as humans walk the Earth.
This topic is about how the Israelis use excessive force against civilian populations in order to provoke wars and then use their entire population as ablaitive human shields to justify the continuance of aggression and whip their own people into forced compliance. Not about past attrocities such as the liquidation of the Australian Aboriginal People or the Rape of Nanking, or the Smallpox Blanket incidents, or any of that. Waving your hands about how something someone else did is also bad may in fact be a true statement, but it's not a relevant statement.
-Username17
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:01 pm

> FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1154801134[/unixtime]]
> This topic is about how the Israelis use excessive force against civilian populations in order to provoke wars and then use their entire population as ablaitive human shields to justify the continuance of aggression and whip their own people into forced

Huh. I was quite certain that the topic was about how the Palestinians were a bunch of homocidal madman intent on killing everyone on these boards.
Also...(big problem with internet arguments) - bang bang, I totally got you with that lentghy post. And seeing how you came as close to admitting that as you were going to, ignoring your previous points as well as my own, but still participating in the thread, with undefined and unassailable short barbs... kinda impolite and unreasnoble. But that's purely IMO, natch.
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:33 pm

> josephbt at [unixtime wrote:1154762720[/unixtime]]
> So you claim that you spoke with “them”? Did you listen? Did you listen for one single second?

I said I did. You can call me a liar, if you want. We'll get back to how ironic it is for you to say so at the end of the post.

> Did you see the wall you country is building before this meeting?

Yes.

> Ever been to a refugee camp? I have. I've seen the suffering. Are there any Israeli refugee camps? Ever been to one?

Ladies and gentelman, welcome to "The deaf speaking to the blind 2 - electric boogaloo". (You know, I only figured out that "the deaf are supposed to be using sign language fairly recently. *shrug* All the deaf people I met spoke, with an audible accent, and yet)
Yes, there are Israeli refugee camps. As I pointed out, there are thousands of refugees in Israel at the moment. Those that are photogenically injured have their hotel bills sponsored by the goverment.
Others have to live in tent cities. Running water and medical facilities are provided, naturally. "Israel's most beloved artists" enertain them free of charge. Life is good. If the whole thing lasts for less than a month or two.
...
Now comes the part where I'm talking to myself. Even more than I did previously, I mean.
Back in 1948, 50-70% of the Arabs living in Israel (approx 700.000 people) fled / were forced from their homes. At the same time, 80-95% of the Jews living in Arab countries (approx 900.000 people) were forced from/fled their homes. Obviously, the exact numbers and forcefullness of the eviction are contested by both sides, but "approx the same amount" seems like a feasible compromise.
The Jews came to Israel. They had to struggle to escape poverty, they were discriminated against, they were sprayed with DDT to eradicate the bugs. At the moment, most people in Israel are brown, and while there's still some difference in income states and education...
The Arabs/Palestinians came to to Arab lands. You might note, that there are a lot more Arab lands (and Arabs) than... well you know, the same in Israel. They were kept in refugee camps and squalor by their Arab brothers. Well, except for the relative few that managed to improve their situation, and the relative few that immigrated to a non-arab country. Oh, and the less than few that joined the various terrorist organizations. The average Palestinian living within the occupied territories is economically (and medically, etc) better off than a Palestinian living in Jordan, Lebanon, etc. (again, fact.) But, he has to live with the fact that the boot of the Zionist opressor is on his neck at all times, so I suppose it's not worth it.
Edit - just in case I was being unclear. The people who put the Palestinians in refugee camps were the Arabs. The people who refused to integrate the Palestinians into their lands (with ample justification) were the Arabs. We are being blamed for refusing to help our enemies, while the people who created the situation aren't willing to help their brothers.
No, this is not a "Look, a UFO". Nor is it a justification for anything. You asked me if there are any Israeli refugee camps. I told you the reasons why there aren't any. As opposed.

> nuff said. you might as well wrap those tags arround your whole posts

Play the game. Play the game, tell me your score, and give me a hypothesis explaining why the situation is as it stands. I would just as rather not discuss the literary merits of Pasternak's writing with someone who "never read it, but condemns him anyway". (old USSR quote. I assure you that it applies here)
...
Is there any amount of factual evidence that could possibly convince you that what I say is true?
Have you... listened to what I'm saying, even for a second?
Not being able to accept information that contradicts your opinion about the way the universe is supposed to worked is an imperfection of the mind.
I'm big on individualism, deciding what's wrong and right for myself, not based on the opinion of any group. Accepting, as a 15 yeard old liberal, that what Hollywood told me is false, not all wars are a result of a mis-understanding that everyone on both sides are anxious to stop, that a whole nation can hate another nation and wish death upon it... that was hard. But I had to do it, because the alternative would be to deny the information staring me in the face, and turn to the pretty pictures in my mind to provide me with the proper way the world should work instead. I started investigating what actual Palestinians were saying, hoping that what I understood from my first encounter was some freak accident...
I don't know nearly as much about the conflict in your land as I'd like. Despite watching a thousand films (or was it the same film a thousand times? No offense, but most of the movies about your war, starting with Kusturica and finishing with Kusturica imitating Kusturica, are somewhat the same), watching the news reports, and going through wiki, I've gained no deeper understanding than "once Yugoslavia fell apart, every ethnicity wanted a chunck of land, and wanted it's land free of people from other ethnicity's).
Maybe in your land, everything was just like in the movies. Nobody (except for a few radicals) really wanted to fight, and it was all just a big tragic/absurd misunderstanding. I'm sorry, but that's not the way things work everywhere. Your lesson applies to Lebanon, quite a bit, but..
Top

josephbt
  Knight
  Posts: 325
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Zagreb, Cro

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by josephbt » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:45 pm

> Oberoni wrote:snip...
> What could he have said that would make you say "wow, that was the most awesome insight from an Israeli dude ever?"

It never crossed my mind to think that it was some awesome insight. Frankly, it wasn't. I just got pissed of by the tone Xander used and by his argumentation of why Israel may attack Lebanon or any other country in their vicinity.
"We just want to live in peace, but they attacked first, so now we're murdering them to keep our peace." It sounds just like that saying "fvcking for virginity". And it's the same stuff that i've been hearing here for 15 years.
Again a bit of history. 11 years ago, Croatian army performed an offensive to retake parts of Croatia under Serb occupation. It was called The Storm and it was wildly successful. Croatia was again complete. Except for one minor part. Some 200.000 Serbian people were displaced. Villages were burned and houses dynamited to prevent them from returning. Anyone elderly found on site was shot or executed in a much worse maner. Everything not burned was pillaged.(more info hereOluja)
And except for some independent news, people in Croatia had said the same thing.
-"They attacked first, we want peace, so they got what they deserved."
-"But people were murdered!!"
-"It's OK. It's for peace."
But it isn't OK. And it never will be. And yet it had to be. So a law(a LAW??!!) was proclamed by the parliament stating that the Homeland War(sound familiar??) was: righteous, defensive and freedom loving. Say otherwise and you will be fined with a 600euro fine(it has happened).
The date when most succeses during Operation Storm were made is a national holiday now. The Victory and Homeland Thanksgiving Day(coincidentaly, it's today). And every year representatives of "cleansed" Serbs ask for reparations and get a bird flipped at them with "You attacked first, we did what we did because you made us" retoric.
So whenever i hear someone say something like it, I sorta lose it. Cause it's the same stuff i've been hearing for the majority of my life.
p.s.
One could think i'm pro Serb. I'm not. I'm equally disgusted by the crap they did(concentration camps and shelling of civilian structures) and the crap they say. It's just that I live in Croatia, so it's a more familiar subject.
engi
Blood for the Blood God!
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:00 pm

> josephbt at [unixtime wrote:1154814319[/unixtime]]
> It never crossed my mind to think that it was some awesome insight. Frankly, it wasn't.

Umm, the question was "what kind of post could I possibly make that would meet your approval".

> I just got pissed of by the tone Xander used and by his argumentation of why Israel may attack Lebanon or any other country in their vicinity.

I'm pretty sure that you meant to say "argumentation for the horrible things Israel does while attacking other people". Because attacking people that are trying to kill you with no horrible side effects on civilians - pretty much moral according to everyone. From Hollywood to D&D.

> But it isn't OK. And it never will be. And yet it had to be.

So the Dresden example, etc... pretty much wasted, right?
BTW, please tell me exactly what it is that I am justifying, according to you. With quotes.
Top

josephbt
  Knight
  Posts: 325
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Zagreb, Cro

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by josephbt » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:41 pm

> Xander77 wrote:Is there any amount of factual evidence that could possibly convince you that what I say is true?

yup, there is. but I lack in knowledge of this subject, so what I'll do is read a bit.
i'm maybe gonna post in a couple of days or when i feel that i've learned enough. until then I'm, as you say, discussing Pasternak's writing. so i'm just gonna lurk and see where this goes.
engi
Blood for the Blood God!
Top

PhoneLobster
  King
  Posts: 6403
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by PhoneLobster » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:22 pm

> wrote:I'm just going to go ahead and assume that you're not the actual super-top-secret bearer of history,

Well, you know the super secret history rumour I heard was that the Japanese generals declared the nukes as a failed attack due to lack of damage to the military.
But dude, EVERYONE knows that the bomb was dropped to impress the soviets and had about zero to do with Japan or ending that particular war.
Now back to trying to set the "scary moral precedent" that killing people because of their racial/religious/ethnic and taking their stuff is a bad thing to continue to do.
Oh gosh egg sure will be on my face once I set that awkward precedent, ho ho ho.
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Phonelobster's Latest RPG Rule Set
The world's most definitive Star Wars Saga Edition Review
That Time I reviewed D20Modern Classes
Stories from Phonelobster's ridiculous life about local gaming stores, board game clubs and brothels
Australia is a horror setting thread
Phonelobster's totally legit history of the island of Malta
The utterly infamous Our Favourite Edition Is 2nd Edition thread
Top

Oberoni
  Knight
  Posts: 386
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Oberoni » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:38 pm

> PhoneLobster at [unixtime wrote:1154820123[/unixtime]]
> Well, you know the super secret history rumour I heard was that the Japanese generals declared the nukes as a failed attack due to lack of damage to the military.
> But dude, EVERYONE knows that the bomb was dropped to impress the soviets and had about zero to do with Japan or ending that particular war.

...right, that must be the complete reason.
At any rate, Frank's nuke analysis at the top of this page concerning this particular subject is pretty spot-on.
Top

Crissa
  King
  Posts: 6720
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Santa Cruz

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Crissa » Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:19 am

How many people were killed by terrorists in the US in two prior decades? (1980-2000)
How many of those deaths were caused by terrorists were Republicans, or supported the Republican Party?
Does that mean you should blow up Washington, DC?
-Crissa
PS - Did the rockets start falling before Israeli forces were romping around the Lebonese contryside? The answer is no. Are the Hizbollah forces controlled in any way by the Lebonese government or any other faction in that country? The answer is no.
Xander, why are you lying to yourself? There's plenty of other, rather true, reasons to hate Hizbollah.
Fixed
Top

Zherog
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 907
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Zherog » Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:06 am

> Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1154823563[/unixtime]]Did the rockets start falling before or after Israeli forces were romping around the Lebonese contryside? The answer is no.

Maybe it's because I'm super tired... but wouldn't the only answers to the question be "before" or after?" "No" doesn't answer the question...
You can't fix stupid.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." ~ Jackie Robinson
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:18 am

> Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1154823563[/unixtime]]
> How many of those deaths were caused by terrorists were Republicans, or supported the Republican Party?
> PS - Did the rockets start falling before or after Israeli forces were romping around the Lebonese contryside? The answer is no.

Umm... translation to English, please?

> Xander, why are you lying to yourself? There's plenty of other, rather true, reasons to hate Hizbollah.

...
Please. Do tell.
Top

PhoneLobster
  King
  Posts: 6403
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by PhoneLobster » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:45 am

> wrote:At any rate, Frank's nuke analysis at the top of this page concerning this particular subject is pretty spot-on.

Don't ask me why but Franks thing and about four other posts seemed to appear between my reply and what I had seen when I started typing it.
Go figure.
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Phonelobster's Latest RPG Rule Set
The world's most definitive Star Wars Saga Edition Review
That Time I reviewed D20Modern Classes
Stories from Phonelobster's ridiculous life about local gaming stores, board game clubs and brothels
Australia is a horror setting thread
Phonelobster's totally legit history of the island of Malta
The utterly infamous Our Favourite Edition Is 2nd Edition thread
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:21 pm

> josephbt at [unixtime wrote:1154817667[/unixtime]]
> i'm maybe gonna post in a couple of days or when i feel that i've learned enough.

Do a comparsion of 1948 and your operation storm (unless that's what you did already, but was so subtle about it, I didn't notice) - precentages, numbers, the way both sides feel about it at this point...
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:26 pm

> Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1154823563[/unixtime]]How many people were killed by terrorists in the US in two prior decades? (1980-2000)
> How many of those deaths were caused by terrorists were Republicans, or supported the Republican Party?
> Does that mean you should blow up Washington, DC?

Ask Frank. I think he was just arguing in support of that all over this thread.

> PS - Did the rockets start falling before Israeli forces were romping around the Lebonese contryside? The answer is no.

Let's try this again. The answer is yes (see, with the underline and italics, it's absolutely clear who's in the right here). And... (I'll use simple words here) seeing hwo I WAS THERE WHEN THAT HAPPENED, may I suggest you actually attempt to provide something called "evidence" that things I saw with my own eyes didn't take place?

> Xander, why are you lying to yourself? There's plenty of other, rather true, reasons to hate Hizbollah.

Again, do tell.
Top

Crissa
  King
  Posts: 6720
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Santa Cruz

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Crissa » Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:56 pm

Rockets did not strike Isreal until after Israeli forces had attacked Lebanon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... r][br]Even vague, usually pro-Isreali information like wikipedia has that detail, Xander. Though you might note it doesn't include the shelling and bombardment of Lebonese targets, while it does include the bombarment of the Israeli occupation.
-Crissa
Top

power_word_wedgie
  Master
  Posts: 287
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by power_word_wedgie » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:42 am

>Actually, Xander is right on this one.<
Edit: And this should cover Hamas rocket attacks as well - condemnation by a human rights groupm back in 2005.
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:54 am

> power_word_wedgie at [unixtime wrote:1155084149[/unixtime]]>Actually, Xander is right on this one.<

As always.

> Edit: And this should cover Hamas rocket attacks as well - condemnation by a human rights groupm back in 2005.

Note how neatly this ties to the "restraint, and what we never gain from displaying it" posts I've made on the previous page.
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:17 pm

> Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1155066964[/unixtime]]Isreal
> pro-Isreali

A) I have to wonder about that. I notice it quite often in posts like yours. While I still prefer the intuitive "these people are completely illiterate" conslusion... what? Is it supposed to be an insult of some sort?

> Even vague, usually pro-Isreali information like wikipedia has that detail,

B) Have you considered how what you say looks like to people who aren't you?
Wikipedia is set up to be influenced by hundreds of seperate opinions. Thousands, on a hot-button topic like that one. It's as near to objective as it gets.
So when you say that nearly objective is pro-Israeli, the obvious conclusion is that you prefer your sources of information to be anti-Israeli.
Top

Tokorona
  Journeyman
  Posts: 109
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Tokorona » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:15 am

It's a sidenote here. The rules of war also prohibit using citizens as SHields (hi, Hezbollah) and say that accidental collatoral damage isn't bad (hey, UN.)
And as for Isreali being evil? For an evil state, they built a wall that cuts down on attacks? That if they had left the retreated Isreal alone (giving up all the disputed territories) they would have been no attacks? Some evil.
EDIT: Fixed some really .. bad word choices
Top

Crissa
  King
  Posts: 6720
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Santa Cruz

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Crissa » Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:53 am

> power_word_wedgie at [unixtime wrote:1155084149[/unixtime]]>Actually, Xander is right on this one.<
> Edit: And this should cover Hamas rocket attacks as well - condemnation by a human rights groupm back in 2005.

What's right about it?
Neither of these are written from the ground on the other side. It doesn't have a quote from Hizbollah leaders, it doesn't say that the rocket attacks were in response to X or Y - it only says that for Israeli attacks, they're excused somehow.
And yet, the Isreali attacks target another civillian population...
How is Xander right? On the day the bombardment of greater Lebanon started, you'll find no missiles landed in Isreal. In fact, in the prior article:

> Early Sunday, militants in south Lebanon fired several Katyusha rockets towards an army base in northern Israel, wounding a soldier and causing damage, an Israeli army spokeswoman said.
> The rocket salvo hit a base near the town of Safed, 20 kilometers (15 miles) south of the international border with Lebanon.

Isn't that a valid target?
Also, there's no detail in the article which says whether the targets actually had anything to do with the rockets - the rockets were fired from hundreds of miles away from the bombing targets - nor is there any evidence that the organizations raided were involved.
So...
Oh, and what's the word for media and information which is from one side of an issue only, or repeats that side's excuses completely unchallenged?
-Crissa
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:09 am

> Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1155181984[/unixtime]]
> What's right about it?

What's right about what I siad? The part where I said that rockets were landing in Israel long before "the 2006 conflict".

> And yet, the Isreali attacks target another civillian population...

Excuse me? Mind telling me exactly what you're talking about.

> How is Xander right?

See above. Also, you might want to accept that as an axiom. At least when I'm talking to you.

> On the day the bombardment of greater Lebanon

Exactly what is "Greater Lebanon"?

> started, you'll find no missiles landed in Isreal.

Ah. And if there were any missiles that day, there weren't any during the same hour. And if there were any during the same hour, there weren't any in the exact second. Point being?

> Isn't that a valid target?

...
..
.
For what. For whom. According to whom. And what would it mean if it was?

> Also, there's no detail in the article which says whether the targets actually had anything to do with the rockets - the rockets were fired from hundreds of miles away from the bombing targets - nor is there any evidence that the organizations raided were involved.

You might want to consider (shock and awe) actually looking beyond the article for that one. Not that I think you would.

> Oh, and what's the word for media and information which is from one side of an issue only, or repeats that side's excuses completely unchallenged?

Unobjective.
Now...
You might note that I'm actually answering every point, question and mumble in your repetetive and less than coherent posts. You might want to consider doing the same for my posts. Would be only fair.
Top

Xander77
  1st Level
  Posts: 44
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: We're not talking about 'the war' enough

- Quote

Post by Xander77 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:37 am

> Tokorona at [unixtime wrote:1155172557[/unixtime]]
> And as for Isreali being evil? For an evil state, they built a wall that cuts down on attacks?

First of all - "Isreali" and all that. Seriously, what?
Second of all - the Palestinians are dependent on Israeli economy for survival. So the wall pretty much screws them over. One would wonder how and why they expect to establish an independent state in any of the "occupied territories" if that state could only survive by being dependent upon the Zionist Enemy... except one wouldn't, because they don't.
Top
Post Reply

- Print view

Display:
Sort by:
Direction:

289 posts

- Page 7 of 12
  - Jump to page:
- Previous
- 1
- …
- 5
- 6
- 7
- 8
- 9
- …
- 12
- Next

Return to “MPSIMS”

Jump to

- Main
- ↳ About the Gaming Den
- ↳ In My Humble Opinion...
- ↳ I Gave the Mouse a Cookie...
- ↳ In The Trenches
- ↳ It's My Own Invention...
- ↳ MPSIMS