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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:25 pm

> ...You Lost Me wrote:Kaelik, that graph looks awesome. Do you have a source for it? Only thing I can find when I reverse image search is some other forum.

The people I saw posting it are Washington Post columnists who did an interview with the source "TheDataFace" back in September. That specific graph isn't on TheDataFace's main website, where they have only an article written back in September going over the coverage.
I'm inclined to believe that "the newspaper columnists that interviewed the statistical analysis people asked for more information and got some that hasn't been released in a formal article" more than "the newspaper columnists made stuff up for funsies."
But while we are posting cool graphs:
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:40 pm

PA official numbers: 46k lead
Wisconsion 22.5K but in recount.
CA: margin of victory for Clinton: 4.2 Million votes. More than the total number of voters at all in 40 states.
Edit: Hey remember when fox news ran a thing about Obama telling illegal immigrants to vote, and every single news org, like CNN uncritically ran the same edited video without checking into it? Turns out they edited out the part where the questioner explicitly explained that she was worried about immigration coming for her mother, who's an immigrant, and Obama specifically said "if you aren't a citizen, you can't vote, if you have a family member who is an illegal, you have even more reason to vote" and then comes they part they kept in where he said "the sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential"
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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RobbyPants
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Post by RobbyPants » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:52 pm

I heard last night that she got more votes than any other US presidential candidate in history.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:55 pm

> RobbyPants wrote:I heard last night that she got more votes than any other US presidential candidate in history.

Probably true, since turnout (in percentage) was basically identical to 2012 (with theoretical possibility to go higher since votes still being counted in LA), and population growth is a thing.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Chamomile
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Post by Chamomile » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:58 pm

> RobbyPants wrote:I heard last night that she got more votes than any other US presidential candidate in history.

She's closing in on Obama's 2012 total but still several million short of his 2008 total. She's gotten more votes than any Republican candidate in history, though.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:04 pm

> Chamomile wrote:

> > RobbyPants wrote:I heard last night that she got more votes than any other US presidential candidate in history.

> She's closing in on Obama's 2012 total but still several million short of his 2008 total. She's gotten more votes than any Republican candidate in history, though.

Guess population growth been pretty low if 2008 can still hold that record. Back when I was a boy, we set that record again every 4 years.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:17 pm

You know what's really fun, watching all the attack ads launched by Republicans against Democrats in Senate campaigns saying "This Democrat wants to kill your medicare and social security" then watching them win, then watching them kill medicare and social security.
Or Rand Paul say that he would protect Kynect, which is literally the state exchange created by Obamacare. I wonder how he will vote on Obamacare removal, oh, no I don't, nevermind.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:29 pm

> SlyJohnny wrote:Oh, whatever. The New York Times pretty much openly called him a rapist and reacted to him suing them with "lol just fkin do it, nerd". Everyone called him out all the time on not having any evidence for any of his bizarre proclamations. Even Fox News was hesitant to say anything positive, and they'd endorse a steaming turd as long it was a shit taken by a Republican politician. He had traditionally conservative papers making a big show of endorsing Clinton. The media was overwhelmingly critical of Trump, that's part of why everyone was surprised by the result. You're bitching because you feel that everything you read should have been either a wrathful opinion piece condemning him, or a sober explanation of why Hillary's policies were Good For America.
> The media isn't to blame. They excoriated him and called him out on all his bullshit claims- that's why he's been castigating them in public and in private meetings.
> This was the DNC's fight to lose, and they conspired to have a one-sided primary to pick a neoliberal, corporate shill who shamelessly made campaign promises that were obviously fantastical, impossible lies to anyone paying attention, who alternately wavered between "wealth inequality is fine how it is, let's not rock the boat" and "no, young millenials, I totally do have a plan to reign in corporate America. And by 'plan' I basically mean 'make them pay slightly more insurance', and by 'reign in' I mean 'let banks pay me vast sums of money to give speeches assuring them that they're doing a bang up job and should be left alone'. There is no conflict of interest; I assure you that this serves my interests perfectly.

Holy shit stop talking you ignorant fucks. Just stop.
Here is the first result when you google "donald trump tape new york times". This was their big story on the tape. It is titled "Lewd Donald Trump Tape Is a Breaking Point for Many in the G.O.P." This is the opening paragraph: "WASHINGTON -- Republican leaders began to abandon Donald J. Trump by the dozens on Saturday after the release of a video showing him speaking of women in vulgar sexual terms, delivering a punishing blow to his campaign and plunging the party into crisis a month before the election." The word "rape" occurs zero times in that article. The phrase "sexual assault" occurs exactly once in that article, in a one-sentence quote by John McCain. It is exactly 100% the both sides normalization I was talking about. Donald Trump is caught bragging about sexually assaulting women and it earns him mild condemnation as "lewd" and "vulgar" and a dry discussion of how it might hurt him politically. The Washington Post article (the ones who broke the story) looks exactly the same. Exactly the fucking same, right down to the "man, that tape sure is lewd, am I right," except they take longer to quote someone saying "sexual assault" and it's someone even less important than John McCain.
That was the actual news coverage of Donald Trump's tape outside of whatever feel-good fringe liberal circlejerk you got your news from. For fuck's sake, the first article you get when you google "donald trump sexual assault new york times" is titled "Two Women Say Donald Trump Touched Them Inappropriately." Because if you weren't offended enough by the idea of Donald Trump exploiting his power and influence to casually assault female business acquiantances, now you can also be offended watching the media condescendingly spin that into childish "bad touch!" bullshit instead of calling it what it actually fucking is. The New York Times actually bent over backwards to avoid calling sexual assault sexual assault in their front page coverage of the tape, because that is what centrist assholes do in an attempt to look impartial; grade on a curve. The more terrible your scandals are, the softer the coverage. The less terrible your scandals are, the harder the coverage. That's how you know you're being fair!
Yes, that is seriously how the media works. Yes, it's stupid. But we've known it's been happening for fucking years. Consider the media coverage of Paul Ryan back in his day; his budget plans literally didn't fucking add up, they failed as a matter of basic arithmetic, and mainstream media outlets like CNN fucking loved him, presenting him as the right-wing version of a serious, level-headed numbers guy. The media, in their effort to seem impartial and find some kind of parity, grades on a curve. And instead of breaking as Republicans go further and further into insanity and corruption, they just keep upping the curve.
Last edited by DSMatticus on Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:06 pm

Trump engaging in campaign finance fraud with all his buddies. Absolutely no one surprised at all.
http://www.campaignlegalcenter.org/news ... cked-super

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Top

Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:53 pm

Trump talking with President of Taiwan... Because he wants to build hotels and golf courses there, so make a call to a leader for tax benefits just like he does every country right?
Oh wait, you mean we have a 50 year agreement with China were we agree to pretend not to recognize Taiwan, and recognizing them is a grave insult that could heighten tensions and cause China to have no faith in any diplomatic efforts with them ever for the next four years.... weird how that unqualified buffoon who demonstrated corruption and incompetence in every conceivable way mixed his corruption up with his incompetence and did something bad for the country, how could that have happened?

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:08 am

> Kaelik wrote:Trump talking with President of Taiwan... Because he wants to build hotels and golf courses there, so make a call to a leader for tax benefits just like he does every country right?
> Oh wait, you mean we have a 50 year agreement with China were we agree to pretend not to recognize Taiwan, and recognizing them is a grave insult that could heighten tensions and cause China to have no faith in any diplomatic efforts with them ever for the next four years.... weird how that unqualified buffoon who demonstrated corruption and incompetence in every conceivable way mixed his corruption up with his incompetence and did something bad for the country, how could that have happened?

We put Carrier Battle Groups in front of Taiwan every time China looks at it sideways. Simply talking to a Taiwanese politician probably isn't going to do anything.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:25 am

Yes, I'm sure China views the US violating it's international agreements with China as literally exactly as big a deal as enforcing those agreements against China.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Orca
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Post by Orca » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:59 am

I know someone in NZ's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and she tells me the Chinese will be up in arms (metaphorical) about Trump's call.
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maglag
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Post by maglag » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:04 am

> Kaelik wrote:

> > Chamomile wrote:

> > > RobbyPants wrote:I heard last night that she got more votes than any other US presidential candidate in history.

> > She's closing in on Obama's 2012 total but still several million short of his 2008 total. She's gotten more votes than any Republican candidate in history, though.

> Guess population growth been pretty low if 2008 can still hold that record. Back when I was a boy, we set that record again every 4 years.

Garry Johnson alone took over 4 million votes (Libertarian top candidate record and best 3rd party since 1996), the next third party candidate took over another million.
A non-insignificant percentage of the USA population went "fuck both Clinton and the republican candidate". You know, just like they did in 1996.
Last edited by maglag on Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

> FrankTrollman wrote: Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.

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Mechalich
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Post by Mechalich » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:09 am

> hyzmarca wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote:Trump talking with President of Taiwan... Because he wants to build hotels and golf courses there, so make a call to a leader for tax benefits just like he does every country right?
> > Oh wait, you mean we have a 50 year agreement with China were we agree to pretend not to recognize Taiwan, and recognizing them is a grave insult that could heighten tensions and cause China to have no faith in any diplomatic efforts with them ever for the next four years.... weird how that unqualified buffoon who demonstrated corruption and incompetence in every conceivable way mixed his corruption up with his incompetence and did something bad for the country, how could that have happened?

> We put Carrier Battle Groups in front of Taiwan every time China looks at it sideways. Simply talking to a Taiwanese politician probably isn't going to do anything.

The whole not recognizing Taiwan thing is a form of international kabuki that has worked, for several decades, between the US and China. The kabuki is actually quite stupid when taken in absolute terms, but by its very existence it helps certain parties in both countries save face in ways that matter to them.
Being able to claim that Taiwan is a functional province of the PRC - even though it isn't - is useful for certain components of the Communist Party. Having the US continually be willing to agree to that, up and to the point of full diplomatic positions, reinforces this particular alternate reality. For whatever reason this makes war a lot less likely and allows everyone to negotiate about all sorts of other things of interest to the two countries without having to constantly fight over Taiwan all the damn time.
It is certainly possible that there is space for the US, the PRC, and Taiwan to evolve on the whole issue and maybe gradually lay the kabuki aside and to accept that unification is never going to happen. The political issues are complicated. As such, any approach to these issues has to be undertaken with extreme care and in a highly measured way - roughly equivalent to two knife throwers doing a routine that involves a complex dance around each other. Fuck up, and someone gets impaled.
If Trump had wanted to pursue a policy of greater openness towards Taiwan with the ultimate goal of international recognition that would be a thing. There are pros and cons to such a policy approach (also, a responsible leader would measure what the residents of Taiwan wanted first), with inevitable trade-offs moving forward. A responsible way to pursue such a policy exists.
That is not what Trump is doing. First of all, Trump is still the President-Elect (and even that's not official for another two and a half weeks). He has no official power or diplomatic apparatus and should be working very hard to do avoid doing anything controversial until he's actually the President. Publically calling up the President of Taiwan without any direct purpose upends the existing system, pisses off the PRC to no gain, and reveals that either Trump's entire team fails to understand basic questions of international relations or that they can't control Trump's impulses - either of which makes the administration look idiotic before it's even begun.
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:28 am

I don't know anyone who lives in Taiwan. But if I did, and I called them, I don't think the PRC would complain. As you said, Trump isn't the President. He's a private citizen. He can phone up anyone he wants to.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:45 am

> hyzmarca wrote:I don't know anyone who lives in Taiwan. But if I did, and I called them, I don't think the PRC would complain. As you said, Trump isn't the President. He's a private citizen. He can phone up anyone he wants to.

You really are dumber than you look, and as far as I can tell you look like a blue name on a grey background, so that's not a good starting point. I wanted to make my post be about Kaelik having an animu girl for his avatar while saying "When I was a boy", and we could all have a good light-hearted laugh at that, but you ruined that by showing that you just don't understand basic ideas of communication and implication.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Leress
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Post by Leress » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:35 am

> hyzmarca wrote:I don't know anyone who lives in Taiwan. But if I did, and I called them, I don't think the PRC would complain. As you said, Trump isn't the President. He's a private citizen. He can phone up anyone he wants to.

You can not be that fucking dumb.
Of course you could call anyone in Taiwan because you don't fucking matter in the realm of international politics.
I can't even think straight because of how stupid your comment is.

> Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!

> Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!

> Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.

> I want him to tongue-punch my box.

]

> The divine in me says the divine in you should go fuck itself.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:02 am

Meanwhile, China, in it's official response, is saying "We understand that the President Elect is an ignorant stupid fool with no idea what he is doing, but we think the fact that Taiwan called him is evidence that they are bad people, and we should invade them and force them into compliance with One China."
Meanwhile, the President Elect of the United States of So Fucked is tweeting from the official twitter of this is how we will receive all future information from the President "They called me, what, am I supposed to know things about foreign policy before I make decisions about who's calls I answer?"
Meanwhile, Taiwan is saying that a former Cheney Aide who is friends with Reince Preibus told them to call Trump, and that everything would be fine.
Conclusion: FUCKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEDDDDD.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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erik
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Post by erik » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:02 am

> Leress wrote: You can not be that fucking dumb.
> ...
> I can't even think straight because of how stupid your comment is.

It's made more clear when you accept that Hyzmarca is a troll on this side of the den. He says absurd things and knows they are absurd. He's tolerable on the gaming side of it, but if he's posting in political threads then it is pure troll. Pretty sure he copped to posting ridiculous bullshit in the past.
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maglag
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Post by maglag » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:34 am

Trump takes a call and everybody's acting like he's trying to start WW III.
But when Obama was selling missile frigates to Taiwan, nobody batted an eye.

> FrankTrollman wrote: Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.

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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:27 am

> maglag wrote:Trump takes a call and everybody's acting like he's trying to start WW III.
> But when Obama was selling missile frigates to Taiwan, nobody batted an eye.

How are you so stupid and still able to breathe?
Great powers avoid war by keeping agreements that prevent war. One part of the agreement with China is that we will shoot the fuck out of them if they invade Formosa. The other part is that we continue to treat The Republic of China as a non-nation in order to let China save face.
Sending military forces to Taiwan is keeping the agreements. Having high level presidential meetings with the Taiwanese government is breaking the agreement.
If China loses faith in our resolve to keep agreements with them regarding Taiwan, they may or may not decide that the United States is not going to keep the rest of the relevant agreements. Since a very major part of that agreement is the promise to offer military reprisals if they invade Formosa, a very plausible outcome of all this is the full scale invasion of Taiwan by the Peoples' Liberation Army. And get this: I don't know if Trump would start World War III over that and neither do you.
Trump's bumbling incompetence and grossly negligent corruption is threatening to start World War III in a very obvious, very scary fashion. And your false equivalence about tit-for-tat troop movements during the Obama Administration is fucking retarded.
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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:28 am

Dont you see Maglag you idiot, talking to some guy is reckless war risking diplomacy, only needless responsible arming of factions in a potential flare point of world war 3 is the sensible thing to do.
Because endless military escalation and the service of the military industrial complex at the risk of destroying the world is the good thing that all leftists should be aiming for!
In other news, up is down, down is up and Obama isn't a fucking huge war criminal and war monger and that and similar hypocrisy on every other fucking issue the left actual cares about isn't a big part of why the support base for his party is crumbling.
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Post by DSMatticus » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:15 am

PL, China is an aggressive authoritarian government which officially claims Taiwan and virtually all of the South China Sea - including parts of the sea other countries are currently using because they are basically (and sometimes literally) their fucking coastline. They casually and routinely try enforcing those claims with their navy, and even do crazy shit like build artificial islands in contested waters from which to project force. This year, the Chinese media and government started challenging Japan's claim to Okinawa. Motherfucking Okinawa. Holy shit what. We are not talking about "meaningless" disputes over the empty nothingness between the territory they actually use. We are talking about the seas these countries' civilian vessels use. We are talking about lands occupied by citizens of another government. Okinawa is home to a million and a half Japanese citizens, making it larger than several states - and relative to Japan's population larger than more still. And China recently declared they aren't sure Japan actually has any claims on that. It'd be like the U.K. declaring they aren't sure the U.S. has any legitimate claims to Maine - I mean, there was a time when it was a part of the British Empire. Besides, is it really such a big deal? It's only a million people, and it's just the tip. There's no fuss if it's just the tip, right? I'm not saying we're going to take it or anything, but it's clearly not your's, so... maybe we will.
It is not a U.S.-China conflict caused by our presence in the region. It is a China-everyone-in-the-fucking-region conflict, and our presence there legitimately serves as a check on their willingness to exert military force. It's not like Iraq where we blew things up because Bush 2.0's friends needed lucrative government contracts. China routinely tells other countries it owns their shit and then parks their navy on that shit and dares them to do something about it, and then we park our navies next to their's because that is the only thing stopping them from eventually leapfrogging their game of dare right up to another country's coast and declaring "mine now, you stay in your box (until we come for that too)."
Wait, I know exactly how to dumb this down enough for you and maglag to understand: China is to its neighbors AS the U.S. is to the Middle East. Voila. There you fucking go. It turns out there's enough room on the world stage for multiple assholes, and China happens to be one of those assholes. The U.S. does not have a monopoly on a dickitude.
Last edited by DSMatticus on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:43 am

> DSMatticus wrote:... crazy shit like build artificial islands in contested waters from which to project force...

You dumb fucking hypocrite.
You stupid blind tool of the US military industrial complex.
You don't even realize what you are fucking saying compared to what your nation is doing do you.
No fucking concept.
Last edited by PhoneLobster on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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