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## Dominions 4 Teasers

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K
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Post by K » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:36 am

Shade Beasts now reanimate killed units as Soulless. Got a new sprite too.
I don't think that I'll have any Shade Beast armies or anything, but it's a neat change to a unit that never saw a lot of use.
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K
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Post by K » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:46 am

Eyes of God now dispels illusions. Looks like Air Magic just got kicked in the nuts again.
It also reveals everyone's graphs.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:27 am

When a Throne says it has Dom Spread (3), is that equivalent to one extra level 3 preacher blabbing in the province, or equivalent to three whole extra temples stacked on top of one another. The first would be basically meaningless, the second would be a pretty big deal for a high dominion faction.
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Doom
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Post by Doom » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:22 pm

Turns out there is a new Acashic spell that does what Acashic Record used to so...and an artifact/book that does it as an action (in the book-holder's zone).
To judge by the how fast the dominion spreads, I'm going with the latter interpretation, each point is a temple. It seems like I read that somewhere...just found a Dom 7 throne, went from black candles to 8 white candles in 4 turns (8 is my max).
Last edited by Doom on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> Kaelik, to Tzor wrote: And you aren't shot in the face?

> Frank Trollman wrote:A government is also immortal ...On the plus side, once the United Kingdom is no longer united, the United States of America will be the oldest country in the world. USA!

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K
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Post by K » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:49 am

I find it really weird that people on Sombre's forum are already talking about a CBM mod for Dominions 4. The game hasn't even been released and they are talking about modding it to "fix" balance issues.
I mean, Dom 4 sounds like a completely different beast with wildly different balance, and tinkering with that before you've gotten a chance to learn the game seems pointless.
I mean, even something like making Ice Drakes cheaper is going to be a serious change in balance because Dom 4 has powered up Ice Drakes considerably by making their breath weapon much bigger. Also, the value of Water gems has gone down because clams don't make real gems any more.
Last edited by K on Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Shatner
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Post by Shatner » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:34 pm

It's probably habit at this point. That community is centered around CBM, which is in a constant state of flux. People comment on existing changes, propose new changes, talk about short-lived strategies that are obsolete a few versions down the line, speak out against old changes they want removed; and from version to version CBM keeps going, and so too do the discussions.
Now Dom 4 is coming out and the CBM people can either stop doing what they've been doing for the last umpteen years, or they can continue on talking about how to make changes to Dominions 3 Dominions 4. When all you have is an ever-mutating balance mod, all the world looks like imbalances to tweak.
Last edited by Shatner on Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:11 pm

> 20th August 2013 - New Dominions 4 release date
> Dominions 4 will be ready a little later than anticited. The new preliminary release date is september 28th, but hopefully we'll be able to make the beta available to those that have preordered before that.

http://www.illwinter.com/
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:20 am

No surprise. I really thought the August release date was too optimistic.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:30 am

According to the Dominions IRC folks those who've pre-ordered now have access to a beta copy of the game. I've had a couple of guys say they already downloaded the beta and are trying it out.
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:31 am

Downloading now.

> Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.

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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:41 am

Wow, the download speed actually looks pretty decent. I might be playing in half an hour or so.
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K
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Post by K » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:27 am

So if I bought the pre-order now, I could get the beta?
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:31 am

> K wrote:So if I bought the pre-order now, I could get the beta?

From my understanding, yes. Gonna check with Maer though - he hasn't preordered yet but will do so shortly.
Edit: IRC says "yes", but they're currently going through a LOT of bugs and a lot of obviously incomplete nations at this point.
Last edited by Zinegata on Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Red_Rob
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Post by Red_Rob » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:14 am

The Desura page states "The game is not yet released. Preliminary release date is sept 28th, but a playable beta is available as soon as you buy the game". Which seems fairly cut and dried.
Any first impressions from people that have got the beta? The number of changes from Dom3 actually seems pretty radical. What with no manual tax setting, leaders affecting troop morale, ritual spells having limited range and the changes to research, it seems like there will almost be a whole new game to learn.
Simplified Tome Armor.
Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.
Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.
“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:47 am

The interface changes make a huge difference.
The new troop organization rules make Yomi more garbage than ever. (Oni are undisciplined AND mess up morale for troops they're massed with, and Dai-Oni can't be prepared for use quickly.)
There's definitely some cool new stuff. MA C'Tis has a caste of elite "Sobek" lizards, for instance.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:54 am

Don't try massing griffons. They look okay on paper, but 30+ of them will get torn apart by decent infantry. And since they're undisciplined, it's hard to use them intelligently.
Nations with good midlevel mages are probably going to have serious advantages. Marignon and MA Mictlan are great.
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Shatner
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Post by Shatner » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:16 pm

For those of you playing with the beta version, feel free to share any interesting new observations you have. A lot of us have been looking forward to Dominions 3++, but the big question is whether Dominion 4 is a step forward, sideways, or backwards.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:50 pm

Blood economies are more costly now that you can't modify taxes. Plus, I think some blood boosters are gone. Sanguine dousing rods are more advanced items, though they still only cost 5 blood each.
The new sprites are very noticeable. Icthyids (is that how you spell it? The indie fishmen with the nets) look way different.
Capital forts come with all the bonus constructions for free. This means missile fire from towers comes in much more noticeable volume, and besieging capitals takes like 3 times as long as a generic unupgraded fort.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:57 am

The specific monster generated by Send Lesser Horror varies. I've seen three types so far.
Any nations people are particularly curious about?
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Ancient History
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Post by Ancient History » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:05 am

What'd they do to MA Man?
Deep Cuts In A Lovecraftian Vein
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Shatner
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Post by Shatner » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:20 am

> Avoraciopoctules wrote:Any nations people are particularly curious about?

How is MA Ulm? Or MA Agartha? I think that pair might make a good quick litmus for the state of improvements because they were both pretty flawed, but in really compelling ways (as opposed to MA Machaka, which was just unfinished) and those flaws were pretty widely known.
Have those been addressed and, if so, how? Are they still more-or-less the same thematically (steel and efficient forging vs. last gasp of the cyclopians)?
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:11 am

Man, Agartha, and Ulm. Alright, I'll check them out one at a time. Starting with Man:
Nothing particularly noteworthy in the nation intro, but I'll note that there's no guaranteed water or earth picks.
The troop lineup. Most of these look the same, but I think the lancer might be new?
Monks are sort of interesting. Researchers that don't need a lab to recruit, and literally can't do other mage stuff. There's a catch, though.
By the way, holy commanders use up holy points just like holy soldiers now. Not that it matters for Man.
Bards are spies with a little bit of magic you probably don't care about. I remember seeing Seduction on another nation's bards, but not here. Probably for the best, since a bard would probably be outclassed by an amazon priestess easily.
In Dom3, there was basically no reason to use these. They have a single random, either Air or more Nature. They're cheap for mages, but there's an even cheaper researcher available in the priest.
An okay mage-priest, with more variable random picks.
Not enough air to do anything crazy, but you might be able to support archers and throw out some orb lightning.
What used to be a nation-defining powerhouse is now expensive for what your 2 turns of commander recruitment time get you, but still useful. Remember, the poison and shock resistance come from magic paths, so they're nothing special.
Crone randoms. There's a miniscule chance of getting E2 so you can make earth boots. If those still exist. I know water bracelets do.
New flavor for axemen, and the stats might be a little better?
Did Man's longbows always have 12 Precision?
About the same tower guard as always, you'll still need to wait till LA to get your crossbow-bearing hybrid units.
Well, it's better than indie light cavalry. Looks like they'd die pretty fast as an expansion force, but certainly situationally useful.
Decent heavy cavalry. I don't use knights much, but these look nice.
Your only sacred soldiers are now slightly more useful against assassins.
Elite cavalry. Not sacred, but it is cap-only.
Besides 3 flavors of dog summon, I didn't see any national spells but the magic songs. I assume they do the same thing as before.
Last edited by Avoraciopoctules on Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:30 am

Urge to sleep is rising, so I'll just leave you with my nation overview shots and the funniest random event so far until tomorrow.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:03 am

Unless monks don't require a fort to recruit, they're basically a non-option. Yes, they're very cheap - but the fort-turns required to build them is too high with their piddly 3 research; in an age when a 1 path mage now pumps out 7 research a turn.
Last edited by Zinegata on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:17 am

> Zinegata wrote:Unless monks don't require a fort to recruit, they're basically a non-option. Yes, they're very cheap - but the fort-turns required to build them is too high with their piddly 3 research; in an age when a 1 path mage now pumps out 7 research a turn.

Basically yes. Although... I'm not sure. Mages seem to be a lot more expensive. The Crone of Avalon is not terribly impressive and goes for over three hundred gold. The "basic combat mage" that is the Mother of Avalon is over two hundred. I don't think the basic trade off is between a build-anywhere fighting mage like a Witch Hunter and fifteen troops anymore. Now it looks like you're giving up twenty or more basic soldiers for someone who can cast a few lightning bolts.
With the price point on even low end mages so high, I think you'll go a lot of turns unable to recruit casters in every fort. Being able to squeeze out a monk for 25 gold is something I foresee doing much more than I would have in Dominions 3.
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