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Maxus
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### GOP--Sore Losers

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Post by Maxus » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:42 am

What the hell's their reasoning lately?
Every time I pass a TV at work (which are always tuned to all-news channels), there's some new asshattery they're up to. I do change it when it's on Fox News, though.
As near as I can tell, they've been repeatedly grilling the Supreme Court nominee on the same damn thing. Over. And Over. And Over. And it's the same case where they MAYBE could find some leverage to use against her.
Then there was something about them doing a filibuster.
Since Obama became president, it's like they're trying to just make things as difficult as possible for Obama and the Democratic party. Just to be dicks because they lost.
All I'm hoping for is their dickery will further alienate relatively unbiased people (I'd like to think of myself as one. I'm for the Democratic party right now because they're being a lot more mature than the Republicans). Well, scratch that. I hope they straighten up and start trying to cooperate with the current government. If they continue their petty dickery, I hope they continue to lose elections, because they then should not be a major political force in the USA.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:45 am

I can only wonder what new and horrible ultra-conservative party will sprout up in the wake of the GOP's floundering...
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:48 am

Yes, not all of the presidents' men have been approved yet. We still have entire departments unstaffed because the GOP refuses to vote on these people.
-Crissa
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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:19 am

Everyone's a sore loser. GOP, Democrats, libertarian party (ugh).

> Crissa wrote:Yes, not all of the presidents' men have been approved yet. We still have entire departments unstaffed because the GOP refuses to vote on these people.

I think the extreme vetting process by the administration might also have something to do with it.
http://www.dnd-wiki.org -- the wiki
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tzor
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### Re: GOP--Sore Losers

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Post by tzor » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:15 pm

> Maxus wrote:What the hell's their reasoning lately?

In a word, I think their reasoning is “revenge.” It got really nasty with the recent nominations from Bush and I think there is a degree of the desire for “what goes around, comes around.” Ironically, they have no one to blame but themselves, IIRC when Bush started proposing nominees, his first one was rejected by his own party; it seems the Democrats don’t play that game to their own president.
The conservative media is “wild” against her. At one point they may have had valid charges, but now those charges are more like grasping at straws. That probably has an impact on the senators in the committee; they have to know there is considerable pressure from conservatives.
Her actual record is rather mediocre. She is not the biggest threat to conservatives as she does not “legislate” from the bench. Perhaps her problem is the opposite; the dismissal of challenges because they don’t fit the mold of legal precedent in jurisprudence. (But is that really a bad thing?) So instead they look at various quotes she has made off of the bench. One should not “judge” a book on such a cover, but they have and probably so has the President. From a conservative point of view, this might even actually be a “good” thing.
Thus we are left with a lot of unknowns. What really is her position on abortion, for example? What is her position on the second amendment? What might be her position if that wacko challenge to President Obama’s lack of a birth certificate actually gets to the SC?
Thus we have this strange Kabuki dance, knowing that they can’t really stop the nomination, knowing that they might not want to stop the nomination, but knowing that they have to look really good to the home base in trying.
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PhoneLobster
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### Re: GOP--Sore Losers

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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:01 pm

> tzor wrote:What might be her position if that wacko challenge to President Obama’s lack of a birth certificate actually gets to the SC?

I know you are trying to frame it in a way to distance yourself and disagree with the wacko challenge there (and it is wacko).
But it is important to note he doesn't actually lack a birth certificate.
That's the wacko part. The entire "challenge" is based on pure fraud and fantasy.
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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:30 pm

...also, the lack of a birth certificate.
If Hawaii had laws and reporting a little more common to middle America then I think this problem wouldn't exist.
Of course, then it'd all be about being a Muslin.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:47 pm

Actually, most states do it that way, ml.
In fact, try to go get a copy of your birth certificate from your local government... See what happens.
-Crissa
PS, I think the most annoying thing about this is... It doesn't matter where he was born! You'd have to prove his mom wasn't his mother, or something. Even if he were born in Kenya, he would still be a US citizen, because two requirements were met: One of his two parents was a naturalized US citizen and he grew up in the US.
To not be a citizen, his mom would have had to not be his mother, or she would have had to be a Kenyan citizen as well as a US citizen and not lived n years in the states and he didn't live in the US at any time as a child.
There's so many stupid ands it's crazy.
PS, McCain wasn't born in the US. He was born in a civvie hospital in Panama to his military/civvie folks who lived and worked there in the canal zone.
Last edited by Crissa on Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:55 pm

PS...

> Surgo wrote:I think the extreme vetting process by the administration might also have something to do with it.

No, these guys have been selected for months and months. The EPA and other departments are being held ransom until they change their policies or scientific findings to meet some Republican demand or other, each candidate having at least one demand placed ransom each.
-Crissa
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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:27 pm

My wife got her birth certificate via mail without trouble from Canada, and I've always had mine from New Jersey...
The debate isn't around being a US citizen, it's about being a "natural born US citizen" or however the fuck the Constitution phrases it. The term isn't defined and the insinuation is clear to me and you that it means, born a US citizen without immigration processes, but I consider my son: born in Canada to a US parent.
He didn't get his US citizenship until I applied for it.
Was he "natural born" as a US citizen? Considering that I had to apply for it and submit a stack of forms, it's not exactly a natural process.
...
Also, just to reference the OP: the GOP is as sore a loser as the Democrats are. I think the big difference is that the disaffected Democrats at large get mopey and photoshop Bush into Hitler and troll message boards, whereas disaffected GOP loonies shoot people.
Last edited by mean_liar on Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Absentminded_Wizard
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Post by Absentminded_Wizard » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:45 am

> The debate isn't around being a US citizen, it's about being a "natural born US citizen" or however the fuck the Constitution phrases it. The term isn't defined

Actually, it is.
And Obama would meet the criteria even if he was born in Kenya, since his mother was a citizen and would have lived in the U.S. for over five years of her life.
However, the evidence is clear and redundant that he was born in Hawaii. So basically the birthers are wrong on two counts because they're pulling stuff out of their ass.
And BTW, by definition, if you shoot people, you're a sorer loser than people who just troll message boards. You know, even as somebody who really disliked the things Bush did, I was really getting tired of the "angry left" toward the end of his term. Then Obama was elected and I saw how the "angry right" acts in the face of disappointment.

> Doom314's satirical 4e power wrote:Complete AnnihilationWar-metawarrior 1
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tzor
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Post by tzor » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:30 pm

There is also another argument that he is not a natural citizen because of is British citizenship from his Kenyan father's side.
When all is said and done, these cases are only at best slightly less nit picking than the ones against McCain. Still, I would like to see his birth certificate, in order to prove that there was no miraculous birth (like appearing fully mature from a large sell as was Venus) of The One.
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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:46 pm

> tzor wrote: Still, I would like to see his birth certificate, in order to prove that there was no miraculous birth

OK at this point I'd have to call you out as a foaming wing nut.
Because you CAN go and see a copy of his birth certificate.
It's just that the foaming wing nuts refuse to recognize that.
The man does not lack documentation, idiots just declare the sufficient documentation that he has to be the products of some imaginary conspiracy because... no reason, they're just that crazy!
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:08 am

I've seen the "His father disqualifies him from citizenship" argument debunked before, in some detail and with very little snark. I wish I could find it or remember some of the more salient points, but it was several months ago and I read it out of a passing curiosity and didn't pay attention the points. I have a vague memory that the argument that his father's place of birth lies in some archaic legal idea that the child inherits the nationality of the father, and the counter-argument is that's not practice in determining citizenship these days.
And, Tzor, I don't think you're a foaming wing nut. You've been very rational and polite. I've *seen* foaming wing nuts. I live in Alabama, y'all. There are some seriously Republican people I have to be around at college (although, as a sign of hope, they're mostly the older set. I can only think of one hardcore Republican classmate, and I just smile and nod when he gets on a rant about stealing from the successful to allow crack addicts to continue to have babies and bemoaning that society doesn't use "Survival of the Fittest" now). But what I hear people telling each other around here is nothing compared to what people spout on the comments section of any even vaguely political story on any news site.
Edit: No, I'm not making that up. There's a guy, about my age, who is infuriated at the idea of public health care. Or taxing the upper levels of the wealth strata to support nationwide programs of any sort. And he has been known to ask "What happened to 'survival of the fittest'?" when he gets on a rant about welfare.
And, happily, he's the only person I know my age who thinks like that. He's got enough bitter conviction for three or four more people, but he's only allowed one vote. Which actually has brightened up my attitude towards the next election when that idea occurred to me just a minute ago.
Last edited by Maxus on Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Draco_Argentum
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Post by Draco_Argentum » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:09 am

> PhoneLobster wrote:OK at this point I'd have to call you out as a foaming wing nut.

That was whats known as a joke, PL.
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Psychic Robot
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### Re: GOP--Sore Losers

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Post by Psychic Robot » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:17 am

> Maxus wrote:Since Obama became president, it's like they're trying to just make things as difficult as possible for Obama and the Democratic party. Just to be dicks because they lost.

Haha, oh, wow. Welcome to politics, son.
I should also add that they're doing you a favor. At least, that's how I see it. After reading the majority of criticism that George W. Bush received, I concluded that 95% of Democrats were flaming assholes. It opened my eyes to the problems with partisan politics, and I vowed not to be one of those people.
I hope that seeing that 95% of all Republicans are flaming assholes might inspire the same change within you.
Last edited by Psychic Robot on Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.

> Ant wrote:

> > Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?

> You do not seem to do anything.

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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:34 am

> Draco_Argentum wrote:That was whats known as a joke, PL.

You forget. This is Tzor. Regurgitating weird foaming propaganda without even realizing how crazy it is is, well, kinda his thing.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:11 am

The thing that gets me about the right wing is how breathlessly total their lack of commitment to absolutely anything is. There are no right wing principles at all near as I can tell. Seriously, identity politics is so strong in them that they will vacillate on any issue, take any side in any debate.
It's not just how they'll talk about how they are anti-deficits one day and be pro-deficits another day because that kind of hypocrisy is pretty much standard fare. The thing that bothers me is that they don't even have a fixed group of friends that they tirelessly argue in favor of on a moment by moment basis based on their needs at the time. I would be willing to excuse lying if they were at least loyal. But they aren't even that.
-Username17
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:19 am

I wanna know, how could possibly be 'Democrats' be a worse 'loser' than the GOP, here?
What elected Democrat said things which were not true about W Bush?
How many opposing views aired on the cable/network news vs Bush and his policies vs showings of members of his administration? (let's not even count supporters!)
How many factual errors did the AP report in Bush's disfavor?
Honestly, really, real world examples, please!
-Crissa
Last edited by Crissa on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:17 am

factcheck.org usually has plenty to say about both sides.
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:45 pm

Oh, I imagine.
Also, the major defining philosophy that's defining the Republicans right now runs "We're against Democrats"
That's it. Right now, the Republican party is defining themselves by their opposition against Democrats.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:03 pm

So they're just coming out and admitting it was all one big Skub war then?

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:08 pm

It's shaping up to be like that.
Democrats: We want Skub!
Republicans: You want Skub, therefore we hate Skub and will make even attempting to vote for Skub pain itself.
Democrats: I hope you won't be unreasonable about this.
Republican: I will fight you unto the end of days.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:56 pm

> mean_liar wrote:factcheck.org usually has plenty to say about both sides.

Sure.
Like I said, I totally understand dishonesty in the service of an actual goal. I understand the rhetorical technique of coming out and saying that gay marriage will let child molesters out of prison and legalize dog raping. You're against gay marriage so you tell bod faced lies to mobilize peoples' fears and insecurities to get them out in opposition as well. And yeah, that kind of rhetoric is used not just by "both" sides, but by every side.
What I don't get is how the entire conservative movement is able to flip flop so completely on who and what they support. If Act Up gave the American Conservative Union 5 million dollars, Fox news would be ranting in support of gay marriage and AIDS funding within the week. And as far as I can tell, the conservative voters would just go along with it - even though none of them actually got any of the money.
That's the part I don't get. Not the dishonesty, because that's just a strategy. But the inconsistency. I don't understand how or why the entire conservative base will rally itself against Malaysia and then rally itself for Malaysia when the only thing that has changed is that the Heritage Foundation got a suitcase full of cash... from Malaysia. I don't understand how the entire conservative movement was literally singing for us to bomb the Iranian people into the stone age just 6 months ago and now they are getting all teary eyed because not enough is being done to aid the poor Iranian people.
I understand having goals that you're willing to say or do anything to achieve. I don't understand switching those goals practically mid sentence because someone else took a bribe to swap sides. Why do all the conservatives betray their supposed convictions just because someone on their team took money to betray their supposed convictions?
-Username17
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tzor
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Post by tzor » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:02 pm

> PhoneLobster wrote:OK at this point I'd have to call you out as a foaming wing nut.
> Because you CAN go and see a copy of his birth certificate.

I might be a right wing nut, but I'm not a foaming one.
The only foam is on my Long Ireland Celtic Ale.
I thought the document was a "cirtificate of live birth." Can you use that to get a US Passport? Because I needed a birth certificate for mine, and it's just a matter of fairness for me.
But hey, I'm not taking this as seriously as the radicals; as far as I am concerned he satisfys the spirit of the law at the very least. I still roll my eyes every time I see this brought up on the Republican message boards.
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