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Orion
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### Frank's Pokemaster

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Post by Orion » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:40 pm

I'm reposting this class from his old site because some people may not have seen it, and because I nominate it for the next Tome PDF.
I also think the balance should be reexamined to make sure it's viable at low-levels. I asked Frank about this some time ago and he insisted that since its major class feature is pegged to the CR system, it was definitionally balanced along with Tome classes which were also pegged to the CR system.
Now, I don't doubt that it can hold its own at high levels. I think it eventually becomes a CR-breaker like Fighters and Wizards because of the ridiculous toolbox aspect. Once you have an ally with Planar Binding, you get to dumpster dive the monster manual for whatever bizarre monster powers are most exploitable.
But at lower levels, I think we all know the Tome classes are somewhat ahead of the CR curve, and this guy just... isn't. Here are the specific things that are worrying me about this class for an upcoming Tome game focused on pokemon, incarnum, and energy magic.
1: It takes a while to get better than other summoning powers. In particular, the Soulborn gets an equally good companion at level 1, recastable actually more often than a starting pokemaster. The Summoner base class also has more options and comparable companions.
2: Too many cohorts. A Pokemon is CR N-1 (with, admittedly, some buffs, replaceability, and dumpster diving). A LOT of tome classes give out CR-2 critters. I worry about the Totemist's Beast Companion and the Paladin's Mount upstaging the pokemon.
All this leads me to think that the pokemon needs more useful personal abilities at low level, whether a mounted combat schtick, cheerleading buffs, or... something.
The Pokémaster
"Behir! Thundershock!"
Abilities: Charisma determines how many Pokémon a Pokémaster can control. A Pokémaster is also somewhat dependent upon ranged combat, which is highly influenced by Dexterity. Most Pokémaster class skills (see below) are based on Charisma, Intelligence, or Dexterity.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1 d6
Class Skills: The Pokémaster's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are:
Alchemy (Int), Animal Empathy (Cha), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana - Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Speak Language (special), Wilderness Lore (Wis).
Skill Points per level: 4 + Int Modifier
Base Attack Bonus: 3/4 (as Cleric)
Saves: Fort Bad, Reflex Good, Will Bad
Level Special
1 Control Pokémon (Ex), Caster Levels, Train Pokémon, Pokédex (Ex)
2 Craft Pokéball, Heal Pokémon (Sp)
3 Subtype Specialization (Ex)
4 Increased Awareness (Ex), Double Team
5 Speak with Pokémon (Ex)
6 Craft Greatball (SP)
7 Type Specialization
8 Transfer Control
9 Advanced Pokémon Healing
10 Craft Ultraball (SP)
11 Store Pokémon (SP), Recall Pokémon (SP)
12 Second Subtype Specialization
13
14 Second Type Specialization
15 Craft Masterball (SP)
16
17 Fast Recall Pokémon (SP)
18 Third Subtype Specialization
19 Third Type Specialization
20 Subtype Mastery
Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Pokémasters are proficient with all simple weapons, nets, bolas, Orcish Shotputs, Halfling Skiprocks, harpoons, shuriken, and whips. Pokémasters have proficiency only with light armor. Pokémasters are considered proficient with using any bludgeoning weapon they are normally proficient with for inflicting subdual damage (thus, they do not duffer a -4 to-hit penalty when attempting to inflict subdual damage with any bludgeoning weapon they are proficient with).
Caster Levels: Even though Pokémasters do not gain spells per day or have spell levels - Pokémasters have many caster level dependent abilities. A Pokémaster gains a Pokémaster caster level for every Pokémaster level. If a Pokémaster gains a Prestige Class which adds to Caster levels - she may choose to raise Pokémaster caster levels instead of other caster levels.
Pokémon: A Pokémon is any Aberration, Beast, Dragon, Elemental, Magical Beast, Ooze, Outsider, Plant, Shapeshifter, or Vermin which advances by "Hit Dice" rather than "By Character Class." Creatures which can advance by hit dice or character class - like Beholders, are Pokémon even if they have character class levels. Deity level creatures, including unique dragon types and unique arch-fiends, are not Pokémon regardless of creature type. A Pokémaster can use the Animal Empathy skill on any Pokémon as a normal Diplomacy attempt to influence NPC attitudes - regardless of whether or not the Pokémaster shares a language with the Pokémon or the intelligence of the Pokémon.
Pokéballs and Pokémon: When a Pokémon is caught with a Pokéball (see Craft Pokéball below) it is shrunk down and placed in stasis like in Gloves of Storing (DMG: pages 217-218). While in a Pokéball, Pokémon do not to eat, sleep, breathe, etc. A Pokémon can be returned to its Pokéball or removed from its Pokéball as a standard action by the Pokémaster which owns it - with a range of 25' + 5' per 2 caster levels. If a Pokéball with a Pokémon is traded, given, or sold to another person, ownership of the Pokémon is also transferred. A Pokémon heals rapidly while in its Pokéball. Regular damage is converted to subdual damage at the rate that subdual damage normally heals for the creature. Subdual damage heals at the normal rate while in its Pokéball.
Control Pokémon: A Pokémaster can have a number of Pokémon in Pokéballs equal to her Charisma Modifier be "Controlled." A Controlled Pokémon behaves like a summoned monster when released from its Pokéball, and is essentially under the control of the Pokémaster. A Pokémaster cannot control a Pokémon whose Challenge Rating is equal to or greater than the Pokémaster's Caster Level. Remember the rubric for increasing challenge rating based on extra hit dice or class levels to determine if the Pokémon is controlled. An uncontrolled Pokémon will act as it sees fit , possibly going on a rampage, running away, or simply sleeping until it is returned to its Pokéball. Furthermore, Dragon Pokémon are harder to control than other Pokémon, and use twice their CR (or their own CR + 4, whichever is less) to determine whether they will obey their Pokémaster. A Controlled Pokémon cannot use any Summoning ability to summon uncontrolled Pokémon.
More than one controlled Pokémon can be out of their balls at any one time - but only the first one released behaves like a summoned monster - any subsequent released Pokémon will act normally, usually standing around and watching events transpire, or sleeping (extreme events can cause them to take direct action at DM's option).
Losing Pokémon: A Pokémaster can, at any time, release their Pokémon into the wild. This is a process that takes about 10 minutes during which the Pokémaster says her good-byes to the Pokémon. The Pokémon is then free to do whatever it wishes, its current intelligence, alignment, and abilities do not inherently change from this release. The Pokémon's Pokéball is broken in the process, and is no longer attuned to that Pokémon. Pokémon who were treated especially well or poorly by their Pokémaster will not forget that treatment and may, at the DM's discretion, act accordingly either immediately or at some time in the future.
Death and Pokémon: Sometimes, Pokémon die, this causes a great loss to the Pokémaster, both emotionally and spiritually. A Pokémaster whose controlled Pokémon dies immediately loses 200 XP times the CR of the Pokémon (zero XP for Pokémon below CR 1). A Pokémaster can make a Will save (DC 15) to halve the XP loss. XP lost in this way are recovered if the Pokémon is raised from the dead by any means (usually Raise Dead or Resurrection). The XP is recovered if the Pokémon is Reincarnated, but the new body breaks the Pokémaster to Pokémon link and the Pokémon is no longer controlled, and may no longer be a Pokémon (depending on its new type).
Train Pokémon: A Pokémaster can train or evolve their Pokémon with their Handle Animal skill. As an extraordinary ability, a Pokémaster need not choose specific animals as trainable and can use Handle Animal on any Pokémon. Training a Pokémon takes 8 hours and has a DC of 15 + the Pokémon's CR. If the training would alter the Pokémon's CR - use the new CR. The effects available from Training Pokémon are based on the number of Ranks in Handle Animal the Pokémaster has:
3 ranks - Learn Trick. This is just like teaching to an animal companion (see DMG page 46). Note that some Pokémon are intelligent enough so that they are able to perform "tricks" without being specifically taught - and all Pokémon are able to learn at least 4 tricks even if their intelligence would not normally be high enough.
6 ranks - Grow Pokémon. This causes the Pokémon to advance 1 Hit Die, if it would not cause the Pokémon to exceed its advancement limit. This may cause the creature to grow in size category, see the monster description. This may also cause the Pokémon to become uncontrolled, if this raises its CR to past the maximum CR the Pokémaster can control. You select what skills, if any, a Pokémaster gains for its level, and if this would cause a Pokémon to gain a feat you may select the feat.
9 ranks - Evolve Pokémon. This causes the Pokémon to evolve to a more advanced form. The Pokémon gains a template of your choice. Note that this may cause the Pokémon to become uncontrolled, if this raises the CR to past the maximum CR the Pokémaster can control. The Pokémon remains a Pokémon even if its type changes to a type which is not normally a Pokémon. Pokémon who become Dragons in this way are not harder to control than natural dragons are. You select what skills, if any, a Pokémon gains with its template, and if this would cause a Pokémon to gain one or more feats you may select the feat(s). At the DM's option, a Pokémon may be evolved into a similar but more powerful form that is normally represented by a separate entry. For example: a DM might allow a Pokémaster to evolve her Red Slaad Pokémon into a Green Slaad, or a Fiendish Horse into a Nightmare. Alternately, a creature with multiple versions (like a Dragon) could be advanced into a more powerful type (a wyrmling green dragon into a juvenile green dragon, for example).
A Pokémon of type Beast which is evolved into a different type, gains a permanent one-time "Hard to Control" modifier as if its CR was 1 higher than it actually is.
A Pokémaster can advance their Pokémon without altering their appearance, with more difficulty. The Pokémon gains all the abilities of the new form, but it does not change in size or show any obvious effects of the transformation. The DC for a "silent" transformation is 20 + the Pokémon's new CR.
12 ranks - Inspire Pokémon. You may be an especially kind or cruel master to your Pokémon, giving it a permanent +2 Sacred or Profane bonus to any statistic. You may only give this bonus once to each Pokémon, and you cannot give different bonuses (Sacred or Profane) to different Pokémon.
Pokédex: Using the Pokédex is linked to the Pokémaster's Knowledge Arcana or Wilderness Love skill - whichever is higher. The abilities granted depend upon how many ranks the Pokémaster has in the relevant skill:
3 ranks - Identify Pokémon. A Pokémaster can automatically identify the name, type, and subtype of any Pokémon encountered.
6 ranks - Full Pokémon Entry. A Pokémaster's player can open the Monster Manual (or other relevant source material) to the appropriate page and read the Pokémon's entry. If the Pokémaster's player chooses, she may read the relatively uninformative descriptive text at the beginning of the entry to other players out loud. In addition, a Pokémaster may note whether a Pokémon encountered in the wild has extra advancement hit dice and/or class levels - though not necessarily what kind or how many.
12 ranks - Full Identify Pokémon. The Pokémaster is able to instantly identify any Pokémon's advancement hit dice and class level (if any).
Craft Pokéball: A 2nd level Pokémaster can craft Pokéballs. A Pokéball costs 100 GP and 8 XP to make. It costs 200 GP to buy one from a Pokécenter. A Pokéball acts as a thrown weapon, which is used as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 15'. Using a Pokéball is considered to be using a spell like ability. If a Pokéball thrown by a Pokémaster hits a Pokémon it inflicts 1 point of subdual damage per caster level - if the Pokémon is unconscious after being hit by the Pokéball it is sucked into the Pokéball and now belongs to the Pokémaster who threw the Pokéball - the Pokéball is now sitting in a square formerly occupied by the captured Pokémon If a Pokéball hits a Pokémon it is attuned to that Pokémon and cannot be used on any other Pokémon - ever.
Heal Pokémon: A Pokémaster may attempt to accelerate the healing of a Pokémon in its Pokéball. By spending a fullround action, a Pokémaster can attempt a Heal Check (DC 15) to either convert all regular damage suffered by the Pokémon into subdual damage, or to confer the benefits of 1 day of rest to the Pokémon (2 Hit Points per hit die, 1 day worth of repaired Ability damage, the recovery of any limited uses/day abilities, and the healing of all subdual damage). This ability may be used on each Pokémon 3 plus the Pokémaster's Wisdom bonus (if positive) times per day.
Subtype Specialization: A Pokémaster can choose a subtype which is her specialty. A Pokémaster gains a +1 bonus on all Bluff, Animal Empathy, Handle Animal, Knowledge, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Wilderness Lore, checks when using these skills on or about such creatures for every 3 caster levels she has. A Pokémaster can choose a second Subtype to be equally proficient with at 12th level, and a third at 18th. A Pokémaster can Control one extra Pokémon which must be of a subtype that she specializes in. Subtypes include: Air, Aquatic, Chaotic, Cold, Earth, Electricity, Evil, Fire, Good, Lawful, Reptilian, and Water.
Increased Awareness: At 4th level and above, a Pokémaster's Pokémon become more intelligent and aware. After the Pokémaster has owned her Pokémon for at least 1 week, its intelligence changes to the Pokémasters ranks in Handle Animal if that is more than its normal intelligence.
In addition, a Pokémaster can make her Pokémon gradually see things her way - a Pokémon's alignment shifts one degree towards the Pokémaster's each week if she can succeed in an Animal Empathy check at a DC of (10 + the Pokémon's CR). The DM decides whether it moves Law/Chaos or Good/Evil first depending upon circumstances. So if a Lawful Good Pokémaster captured an Imp (lawful evil Pokémon), the Imp could become Lawful Neutral after one week, and could be Lawful Good after 2 weeks. Pokémon subtypes are unaffected - so a Evil Pokémon such as an Efreet would stay subtype Evil even if it subsequently became of Good alignment.
Double Team: Upon reaching 4th level, the Pokémaster is able to control two Pokémon out of their balls simultaneously, even in battle. This ability only functions so long as both Pokémon are more than 2 CR less than the Pokémaster's caster level. For example, a 5th level Pokémaster could command a single CR 4 Pokémon in battle or two CR 2 Pokémon, but could not command a CR 1 Pokémon and a CR 3 Pokémon simultaneously.
Speak with Pokémon: At fifth level a Pokémaster has Tongues - always on, which only effects Pokémon Even though a Gorgon's speech still sounds like "gorgongorgongorgongorgon" it is perfectly intelligible to the Pokémaster. Further, the Pokémaster's speech is understandable by Pokémon even if they do not normally have a language - even Oozes and other Pokémon not normally capable of communicating at all.
Craft Greatball: A Pokémaster can craft an Greatball, which is a more powerful form of Pokéball. It behaves just like a Pokéball except that it costs 1000 Gold and 80 XP to craft - and inflicts d4 subdual damage per caster level.
Type Specialization: At 7th level, you can choose a single creature type to gain the same skill bonuses as your subtype specialization with a creature type instead. You are not limited to normal Pokémon types. You may choose a second type to Specialize in at 14th level, and a third at 19th. You may have an additional controlled Pokémon, which must be of a type you are specialized in. Type and Subtype Specialization bonuses are cumulative.
Transfer Control: At 8th level a Pokémaster can choose to change which Pokémon she controls, up to her regular limit of controlled Pokémon All newly controlled Pokémon must be in Pokéballs possessed and owned by the Pokémaster. Transfer Control is a full-round action.
Advanced Pokémon Healing: A Pokémaster can, at 9th level, use Heal as a Spell like ability a number of times a day equal to her wisdom modifier, with a minimum of once a day. A Pokémaster can only Heal Pokémon she controls, but can heal them whether they are in their Pokéballs or not.
Craft Ultraball: A Pokémaster can craft an Ultraball. An Ultraball is a much more powerful form of Pokéball. It costs 5000 GP and 400 XP to make. When used, it inflicts d8 points of subdual damage per caster level.
Store Pokémon: Starting at 11th level, as a move equivalent action, a Pokémaster can send a Pokéball with a Pokémon in it to a completely safe extra dimensional space. A Pokéball must be within Close range (25 feet + 5 feet per 2 caster levels) to be stored. Store Pokémon cannot be combined with a normal move. Store Pokémon is a spell-like ability.
Recall Pokémon: Starting at 11th level, as a fullround action, a Pokémaster can transport a Stored Pokéball from her extra dimensional space to her hand.
Craft Masterball: A Masterball is the ultimate expression of the Pokémon Hunter - it costs a hefty 10000 GP and 800 XP to manufacture, and subdues the first Pokémon it hits, if that Pokémon does not have more than 2 hit dice for every caster level of the Pokémaster who threw it. If a Pokémon is too strong to be captured automatically it may yet succumb as it still suffers d12 subdual damage per caster level.
Fast Recall Pokémon: As Recall Pokémon, but Recalling Pokémon is a free action.
Subtype Mastery: The Pokémaster chooses one subtype that she is already specialized in to Master. All her Ultraballs function like Masterballs against Pokémon of that subtype, there is no limit to the CR of Pokémon of that subtype that she can control - and she can control one extra Pokémon of that subtype, in addition to her bonus controlled Pokémon from type and subtype specialization.
Pokémasters and Multiclassing: Pokémasters rarely multiclass, however if they multiclass into another spellcasting class and have access to domains, the Spellcaster levels stack for purposes of controlling Pokémon of a type or subtype sharing of those domains. So a Pokémaster 6/ Cleric 5 with the domains of Evil and Fire would control Pokémon as Caster level 6, but would control Evil or Fire Pokémon as a Caster Level 11 Pokémaster.
Pokémasters and Starting Equipment/Ages: A Pokémaster begins play with a CR 1/2 Pokémon of her choice. Common choices include Stirges and Celestial Badgers. A Pokémaster also begins play with an empty Pokéball and 3d4 x 5 gold pieces worth of equipment. In campaigns with regional or Clan specific starting equipment, a Pokémaster's starting Pokéballs is in addition to her regional or clan specific equipment.
Pokémasters often begin their adventuring lives earlier than other classes, when determining starting age for a 1st level a Pokémaster begins as a Sorcerer/Barbarian and her player may elect to simply not roll the die at all and start at the youngest possible age for her race. See page 93 of the Players Handbook.
Adventures: The life of a Pokémaster naturally leads itself to adventure. Most Pokémasters spend at least some of their time exploring in order to find and capture new Pokémon and hone their skills.
Pokémasters and Alignment: Most Pokémasters have an extreme alignment, although many are kindly masters, others are vicious and cruel to their Pokémon. Pokémasters tend to shy away from neutrality as their constant battles of will with Pokémon generally make them quite accustomed to choosing sides.
Religion: Pokémasters have no special ties to particular deities. However, powerful Pokémasters have significant dealings with the outer planes - and many become Clerics. Gods of Elemental or Alignment domains are frequent choices - as are Gods of Plant or Animal.
Background: Most Pokémasters dedicate their lives to training Pokémon very early in life. Pokémasters generally come from single parent homes or are orphans. Many Pokémasters learn their skills because they love Pokémon or are simply competitive - while others see Pokémon as a relatively easy path to power and dominate their Pokémon in order to fuel their lusts for eternal acquisitiveness. Such Pokémasters may turn to theft or extortion to attempt to steal the Pokémon of other Pokémasters.
Races: Pokémasters are usually Human, although there is a sizable number of Halfling Pokémasters as well. Pokémasters are usually not well thought of in Elven communities, and many turn to the road. In the depths of the Dwarven mountain halls Pokémasters are seen as a valuable method of removing dangerous Pokémon from the caverns but are also frequently shunned if they are seen training their Pokémon. Gnomes are more likely to be scholars of Pokémon than to attempt to capture any themselves. Amongst the savage humanoids Pokémasters are usually laughed at and scorned until they can capture something large enough to frighten compliance out of others.
Other Classes: Pokémasters do not make good front line fighters, although their short range thrown weapons can be devastating. They frequently need Fighting characters to soften up powerful Pokémon for capture as well as to distract powerful Pokémon long enough for a Pokémaster to capture it. Sometimes a Pokémaster will be attacked by creatures or adversity that are not Pokémon, in such cases the abilities of Wizards and Sorcerers are invaluable - a Pokémaster's relative dominance over Pokémon can allow conventional spellcasters to save their powers for use against non-Pokémon foes. Pokémasters can eventually heal their own Pokémon fairly effectively - thus limiting their use for Clerics, however they cannot heal themselves. As a result Pokémasters are sometimes seen to be both cowardly and ungrateful by their non-Pokémon companions.
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Quantumboost
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Post by Quantumboost » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:47 pm

A version of the Pokemaster with the serial numbers wiped off is currently in the Book of Gears sources. I'm currently running a Pokemaster character in a game with Surgo, Tarkis, and someone not on the boards here; will post results when we have them.
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Utterfail
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Post by Utterfail » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:03 pm

Yeah, the Summoner (Under the name Monster Tamer since summoner is taken) is pending for for the PDF.
Like quantum says, its just the D&D version frank whipped up based on his pokemaster class (And it can be seen here)
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Aktariel
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Post by Aktariel » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:47 am

It is?
Huh. Guess someone should integrate that into the PDF.
Honestly, at this point, adding community sourced material into the PDF is a joke. Everyone has their own ideas about how to play, and which classes should do what. We have four different paladins, five or more warlocks, upwards of three psions, and still going. And those are just the easy examples.
It's looking like I might nail down the "Tome PDF" as the "Players Handbook remixed" with the main F&K classes + some well vetted community material, and then release a supplement with additional material as it comes up. That way people don't have to keep reprinting the Tome PDF every time I add another class, or we fix typos.
<something clever>
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Utterfail
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Post by Utterfail » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:55 am

Probably not a bad idea, and I was thinking something similar the other day. But until we do that, I've set up the Monster Tamer file so that it'll build into the PDF now.
Failing since 1989
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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:18 pm

It is also on the wiki.
Link.
http://www.dnd-wiki.org -- the wiki
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:16 am

This class is bad, and anyone who likes it is bad, and anyone who thinks it is too weak is drunk and bad.
1) "everyone else has better summons, look at all these classes that can summon something of HALF THEIR CR! Isn't that stronger than CR-1?" No. Basically never. Even at level 1, when the Summoner could use the mighty CR 1/3rd DOG, the Pokemaster is rocking 3 FUCKING DOGS (because dogs acting like they are supposed to is being told to do combat tricks with a move action each.) So I have no idea what level you think a CR = 1/2 your CR monster is ever better than Multiple CR -1 Monsters.
2) This class isn't "the single best monster of CR-1 to face this encounter" which could plausibly be considered "balanced" except for point 3. It's "That + two actions, which can be pushing animals, or using wands, or literally anything including casting spells after you spend one level in this class and just get to have 6 cohorts of CR-1 for your"
It's also "then the next best monster, then the next, basically I have 5-10 times the HP of everyone else, man, that will never help against monsters."
So basically, it's way stronger than "the CR system" by kind of a lot.
3) "It's balanced against the CR system, so it's fine" NOPE completely wrong. To demonstrate, let's look at a WEIRD SITUATION, which is, let's say that there exists somewhere in the the universe of all D&D books, a single monster at every single CR that is overpowered for that CR, and let's assume, for the sake of argument, that people mostly know what those are.
a) DM uses Overpowered Monster: Party has tougher than normal fight, but uses 80% of resources instead of 20% without losing though, and then rests, and the DM doesn't use that monster again.
b) Pokemaster uses Overpowered Monster: Party trivializes CR appropriate encounter..... and then EVERY SINGLE ONE FROM NOW ON.
No that's even before getting into the other issues which are: If everyone knows X is OP at CR 6, then the DM has incentive to not use it, and Pokemasters have the incentive to summon it from the ether with magic powers of turning a rat into literally anything in the Monster Manual.
Also, the other issue: the Monsters in the MM are good, the monster advancement rules are FUCKING GARBAGE. So if you are a DM and can't appreciate power, you can just use printed monsters, but if you are a pokemaster, you are explicitly told to morph all your shit into the most broken shit you can manage with crazy as advancement rules. You get you that CR 9 Disjunction at will monster, you get you that CL 24 Blasphemy at CR 11. GO TO TOWNNNNNN.
In Conclusion, don't play this fucking class, play a Summoner, thank you and good day.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
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maglag
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Post by maglag » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:29 am

> Kaelik wrote: Also, the other issue: the Monsters in the MM are good, the monster advancement rules are FUCKING GARBAGE. So if you are a DM and can't appreciate power, you can just use printed monsters, but if you are a pokemaster, you are explicitly told to morph all your shit into the most broken shit you can manage with crazy as advancement rules. You get you that CR 9 Disjunction at will monster, you get you that CL 24 Blasphemy at CR 11. GO TO TOWNNNNNN.

Kaelik, in case you missed it one of the basis of tome games is chain-binding the hell out of efreetis (or get one and simulacrum it or something), aka the CR 7 monster with Wish 3/day. Tome games consider using monsters to get max level spells with no restrictions before double digit levels a feature, not a bug.
Last edited by maglag on Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

> FrankTrollman wrote: Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:33 pm

> maglag wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote: Also, the other issue: the Monsters in the MM are good, the monster advancement rules are FUCKING GARBAGE. So if you are a DM and can't appreciate power, you can just use printed monsters, but if you are a pokemaster, you are explicitly told to morph all your shit into the most broken shit you can manage with crazy as advancement rules. You get you that CR 9 Disjunction at will monster, you get you that CL 24 Blasphemy at CR 11. GO TO TOWNNNNNN.

> Kaelik, in case you missed it one of the basis of tome games is chain-binding the hell out of efreetis (or get one and simulacrum it or something), aka the CR 7 monster with Wish 3/day. Tome games consider using monsters to get max level spells with no restrictions before double digit levels a feature, not a bug.

Hmmmmm, that thing that kicks in only at level 11 and that Tome nerfs a lot in like 8 ways, and that has lots of restrictions is a thing that you Tome assumes you have with no restrictions and then should kick in earlier.
Interesting Hot Take my dude.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Ancient History
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Post by Ancient History » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:47 am

This reminds me of something I've been meaning to fold into one of my heartbreaker engines - the idea that you're not actually summoning physical beasties, but that you have parts of your soul that take on animal forms, and those are your summoning list. So you have a fixed number of slots, but as you gain in level you can mod the critters by slapping templates on them (which is effectively the evolved form).
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Foxwarrior
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Post by Foxwarrior » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:32 am

I think that's known to some people as the Pathfinder Summoner. Much of the appeal of pokemon is that you get to treat the enemies you encounter as loot; Necromancers and Enchanters are in many ways closer to Pokemasters in theme than Pathfinder Summoners are.
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