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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:47 am

You might find MA Ermor playable. You get decent infantry, your mages can be used to generate free undead cavalry, and in general skele-spam is really easy. Astral and death are strong paths, and you have decent cap-only sacreds.
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Do we want a bigger map now?
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:06 am

Read the play-by-play in the link I posted, it's actually quite a good intro to the game and its concepts. Ermor is pretty easy, and there's a workable strategy guide on the wiki here.

> Do we want a bigger map now?

Nah, there's still more than 15 provinces per player, that's plenty.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:07 am

> cthulhu wrote: * Ermor (-)

As Ermor, your troops are good, but your best arrow catchers are old. Your mages are old too. Despite being entirely about zombies who don't eat supplies, you will take Growth 3. It's weird, but do it. Also, your mages are expensive because they can all spawn troops instead of site searching or researching or fighting. This mans that they are expensive and have shit to do, so you probably want a research god.
Research breakpoints:

- Enchantment 3 lets you zombie spam in battle.
- Construction 4 lets you make Skull Mentors. This allows you to turn Death Gems into Research points.
- Thaumaturgy 5 lets you spend small amounts of Astral to get decent but not amazing immobile priests with the Telestic Animation. But since all level 2 Priests in Ermor can generate Skeletons, this means that you can spend small amounts of Astral to permanently increase your rate of skeleton generation.
- Evocation 7 gets you Nether Darts. Since all your casters are Astral & Death, this turns all your basic casters into terrifying dealers of mass death.

> * Pythium (+)

Pythium has a pretty similar army to Ermor, but it's younger and hipper. You don't need to be a Growth power if you don't want to be. You do need productivity, because you won't be supplementing your armies with undead. You get even better communions than, well, anyone, so your late game magics are pretty impressive. You have Hydras for help with early expansion, but don't expect them to do much in the late game.

> * Marignon (-)

Start off with the Big Giant Head and take an Astral 9 / Fire 9 god. It's good times. Put one High Inquisitor in every army to mass bless everything on the first turn, screen with Flagellants and make most of your army be Crossbowmen. Learn a lot of Evocation and try to save your gems to make and equip angelic badasses for the late game. The Seraph is the biggest thing on the block (no exceptions), and measures his accomplishments in how many Tararians he can personally cut in half in one battle. Nevertheless, you'll probably become so enamored of the Angel of Vengeance that you'll mostly use that. You seriously get something awesome at every single level of Evocation (except that the thing you get at 7th, Firestorm, is hard to use properly, even though it is still awesome), and you get a lot of crossbowmen.
Your mages are overpriced for what you get, but they do hit hard in battle.

> * Tei Chien (-)

Life is weird as Tien Chi. You get fabulous archers, and a bewildering array of imperial and ministry soldiers. Normally you are just going to buy the normal archers and footmen, but ministry footmen and guards are slightly tempting. You also get really good cavalry, but your actual sacred cavalry is a snare and a delusion.
Hidden in the code is the fact that having a Minister of Rituals in a province does not simply negate bad events, it opens up additional good events, some of which are awesome. You want to be Order and Luck. And no, I'm totally not kidding. You can build Ministers of Magic without a lab an have them walk to the capital to do research. So do that. Your Imperial Alchemist is over priced and not very good as a battle mage, but he site searchs like a man on fire. Do most do your searching by having him wander the land searching shit and back that up with Arcane Probing out of Evocation 2. Your guys aren't really good enough to do much with the gems you find, so you'll want to have a god who is at least A4E3A3.
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Akula
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Post by Akula » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:08 am

Frank, what is your stance on dormant gods? Do you think the scales you gain are worth the time you lose?
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:18 am

What does a research god look like?
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Orca
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Post by Orca » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:31 am

The best gods for research are generally humans with a lot of magic paths at level 1-2, and 1-3 paths at level 4 or so. The great sage gets a bonus to research too so he's a natural at the job.
I have limited experience with MP, but it seems fairly obvious that a research god needs to be awake to be useful. By the time a dormant god wakes up you should have some research going anyway (well, possibly not for Ermor).
This sort of pretender is also good at searching for sites.
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Orca
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Post by Orca » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:33 am

> FrankTrollman wrote:Hidden in the code is the fact that having a Minister of Rituals in a province does not simply negate bad events, it opens up additional good events, some of which are awesome.

I had no idea. Hiding that in the code is a fairly dirty trick!
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:51 am

> Akula wrote:Frank, what is your stance on dormant gods? Do you think the scales you gain are worth the time you lose?

The answer is: it depends. Many gods aren't going to be worth much in combat until they have some basic equipment. Like maybe a Prince of Death. Having them show up at the end of the first year can have them pop up with their equipment already made. Since they were just going to be pacing around the capital researching for the first dozen turns, you aren't losing that much. If the gain in scales pays off more than setting your PoD on Research 11 times, then obviously it was worth it.
Of course, some strategies are going to be better with an Imprisoned or Awake god. There is little purpose in having a Great White Bull if he isn't there on turn one.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:54 am

> cthulhu wrote:What does a research god look like?

Usually a Rainbow with a lot of magic paths. Don't be fooled by the Sage's bonus - even though he gets a few extra research points, having lots of magic paths and points increases your RP also, so you can get away with a Crone or Great Enchantress researcher.
That being said, I don't think Pretenders with good research scores are really used for research except in the early game - to quickly finish a couple of levels in vital research.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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K
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Post by K » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:05 pm

Ok, sent in my Pretender.
Mictlan, bitches!
Although, it is the weird Middle Mictlan.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:44 am

After tooling around a bit I went with ermor. No idea what I'm doing still, but I understand more of what's going on than Tai Chien!
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:27 am

Just bury them under an endless wave of undead
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:30 am

Err, my pretender went in this morning as well
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:49 am

Back from 24 hours spent in or near a Renaissance fair (most of which was spent reading a slightly tiresome trilogy of fantasy novels that don't seem to realize how abusable the ability to magically melt an entire city of stone buildings in minutes could be.) and trying to put off my English homework of writing 1-2 pages of the worst purple prose I can. Reviewing PBEM account.
- Pretender files received:
Franktrollman (Pangaea)
[ashdod player] (Ashdod)
name_here (R'lyeh)
Orca (Man)
K (Mictlan)
cthulhu (Ermor)
Ermor and Ashdod's files looked odd. The Ashdod one was entirely renamed and Ermor's ended in 1 rather than 0 (mid_ermor_1.2h rather than mid_ermor_0.2h).
- Have not gotten pretender files from:
Akula (Vanheim)
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I'll try bugging Akula to send me a file. Assuming no unexpected delays, I should be able to start the game tomorrow in between classes.
I took some screenshots during pretender creation, but don't have time to work on any LP-style write-ups just yet.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:55 am

That's because I created TWO pretender files with the same pretender name. Atleast as far as I can tell.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:28 am

> Avoraciopoctules wrote:Back from 24 hours spent in or near a Renaissance fair (most of which was spent reading a slightly tiresome trilogy of fantasy novels that don't seem to realize how abusable the ability to magically melt an entire city of stone buildings in minutes could be.)

That series is trash for plenty of reasons besides general building destruction stupidity. It's got some of the worse cases of "Why does shit happen? Because the plot commands it" I've seen in a long time.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:55 am

Which series is this?

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:25 am

> Avoraciopoctules wrote:[ashdod player] (Ashdod)

I am insulted, sir.

> Ermor and Ashdod's files looked odd. The Ashdod one was entirely renamed and Ermor's ended in 1 rather than 0 (mid_ermor_1.2h rather than mid_ermor_0.2h).

Did it come in as 'mid_gath'? I'm pretty sure that's right, since Gath is the name of the Late Age version of the faction.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:30 am

> name_here wrote:Which series is this?

Black Magician.
Fucking parentheses.
Anyway, in addition to arbitrary plot syndrome, it's weirdly misogynistic most of the time.
Last edited by Kaelik on Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Akula
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Post by Akula » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:46 am

Okay, for whatever reason my email was extremely uncooperative earlier. But I have sent the file now and you should have it. So yeah, no longer holding up the game.
EDIT: So I'll make a post about my pretender design for those interested. I'll spoiler it, but most of this stuff should become clear over the course of the game. But please hold off if you are actually playing, at least until turn 15. I was planning on starting sharing 15-20 turns behind the current turn.
So I'm playing Vanheim.
Vanheim has a few problems. Obvious among them is the research curve. Mostly caused by the fact that Vanheim has a real lack of commander options.
Notice that there are only 6 option in my capital. Two of those are cap only. So what will my non capital forts be recruiting? Vanjarls.
These guys have a lot going for them. They are stealthy, and holy, and fast. What they are not, is cheap. Each one has a 280 gold price tag on it and eats a fair amount of upkeep, so they don't mass well. This is unfortunate because these guys will almost certainly form the bulk of my mage corps and I have lots to do with them. But they only generate 5 rp/turn base. That is about 3 gold/ rp ongoing with a hefty upfront price-tag. I have a fair amount of research I need done in year two on top of that. I also only have access to earth, blood, and air at levels beyond 1. And that won't fly in the long term.
So this is leading me to want a rainbow mage. I don't need much help with expansion, so I can do this (hopefully) without being boxed in long term.
So what are my options?
Now some of these are both SCs and rainbow mages, or at least have other perks so I look around at:
the Allfather,
the Ghost King,
and the Master Lich. Now all these are nice, but they are soooo expensive. Rainbows aren't cheap and I can't have horrible scales, so I want something cheaper, something frailer, something...older...
Perfect! Cost zero is great for me, and I want some death and nature magic anyway. In this case, the Crone is the way to go.
I get some magic.
Oy, 320 points on magic. Hopefully it will be worth it, time will tell. Then I decide on my dominion.
These scales are all important. I'll get to that later. But I'm out of points, and this hag needs a name.
(Ignore the 6, it is an aftereffect of the screenshot.)
Last edited by Akula on Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:44 am, edited 6 times in total.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:30 am

hurray! let's go with me getting smashed.
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Akula
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Post by Akula » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:41 am

More on pretender design.
So I took a fairly differentiated mage here. I'll now explain what these things are bringing to the table.
Water 4. You need water to summon Naiads, who clam, and Kokythiad who will bring real death magic to the table. It also has a few very nice items, and a great global that isn't far out of my research goals; I would be happy to put up in the mid game if I luck into a significant amount of water gems.
Earth 4. This is for the bless. But one more high level earth mage is never a bad thing. It also allows for a few nice cross path buffs and a fair amount of new forging possibilities.
Astral 3. I get no access to this normally and I need it to forge rings of wizardry and sorcery. It opens up one nice, but expensive, summon that can cast some key spells.
Death 3. I start with 1 and this path is one that I can remote search with national mages. Having a pretender with death 3 expands my options in this school dramatically.
Nature 4. I have no national access, but N1 indies are numerous and so N4 will open up the path for me. The bless is also great.
My bless is small and weak compared to the kind a nations like Mictlan fields. +2 def, 2 reinvigoration, +5% regen are not going to make anyone sit up and take notice. But they do enhance my Vanjarls to make them much better thugs, and I can field my cap only cavalry without crying into my pillow.
Starting from the top:
Dom 5. A little low for MP, but Vanheim can blood sacrifice so I don't fear a dom death from this. Unless I get jumped by an awake SC in the first year I should be safe.
Order 3. My shit is expensive as all hell. I need every bit of gold I can get in all phases of the game.
Sloth 2. My best troops cost a lot more gold than resources, I don't need much production to crank out a lot of them.
Cold 2. I have a national preference for cold 1. So in summer I have a fairly good chance of having my preference. It also hurts my enemies more than me, so this was a good source of points. Cold 3 increases the encumbrance of my units by 2, that can get thugs killed. I want to use my thugs. Thus no cold 3.
Misfortune 1. I don't like this, but I need the points. And it is somewhat mitigated by order.
Magic 1. My research base cannot handle a drain dominion. I need magic to make them cost effective. And it only cost 40 points.
My pretender is awake, so that I can get early research and site searching. With any luck I can find some juicy stuff.
Last edited by Akula on Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:02 am

Are you gonna go Skin Shifters for your initial expansion Akula?
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Akula
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Post by Akula » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:07 am

Yes, with archer screens. I might supplement with glamor cav if I get a lot of high income provinces.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:05 am

Any particular research strat? Or will that reveal too much of your game plan?
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