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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:44 pm

Season 3 premier:
Upside:
Clever trick of where the entrance to the dungeon that contained the mcguffin was hid
Teleport trap
Lesser Reverse Gravity
Pinky Pie antics
Flutterbitch fake-out
Rarity googly eyes and turbo-crafting
Rainbow Dash in jousting armor
Assorted Twilight meltdowns
Downside:
Songwriters rhyming "hues" with "ewes"
Twilight inexplicibly rounds to eleven decimal places.
Applejack got no good lines
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Voss
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Post by Voss » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:54 pm

I think there were a few more downsides than that (and I expect I'm missing some obscure rule of rhyming, since hue and ewe do rhyme):
-pointless, motivationless villain. Both the King and Cadance could have easily just not been there and the story would have been exactly the same. Random creeping evil vs the love inside and stuff. Or possibly the love of history. I'm... not exactly sure what the message was, but I like the latter more. And at least the Renfair has a point that way.
-The 'crystal ponies' suffered under the Curse of Boring as well as an inexplicable Time Jaunt.
- Celestia's explanation that wasn't. Explanation's usually have things like a context and answer some questions as to why things are happening. Not 'a few square miles that we randomly call an empire popped back into existence (inside Equestria, which makes the 'empire' even more confusing, plus... ruled by a king) and act as an emotional amplifier over all the land'
- Everybody was essentially background, except Twilight & to some extent Spike. Granted this seems intentional with the unexplained Task (that might be Ascension) for later in the season, but it was essentially a reminder of the worst qualities of everyone: Fluttershy is a wimp, Rarity shallow, Rainbow a jerk, Pinkie is random and... uh, well, at least they remember Applejack exists.
That said, I _am_ glad it didn't do one of three things: hand everything over to Cadence and Shining Armor, nuke everything with the Elements of Harmony (which at this point may as well not exist), or turn into a dramatic fight scene with overpowered random villain. The latter would have been really off theme.
But it did feel a little unfulfilling, since the climax point was seemingly 'Don't have a massive ego,' which if anything, is the opposite of Twilight's character flaws. And nothing at all built up to the lesson of the climax, so it wasn't exactly relevant even within the episode.
Not sure if it would have been better or worse as a single episode or an hour and a half movie, but the double episode length didn't do just to it. Too much was cut out, but not enough happened. It was an opportunity for serious worldbuilding (and, frankly, marketing), but it just passed by.
But it was better than the Q episodes that kicked off season 2.
Last edited by Voss on Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:07 pm

> wikipedia entry on rhyme wrote:Though homophones and homonyms satisfy the first condition for rhyming—that is, that the stressed vowel sound is the same—they do not satisfy the second: that the preceding consonant be different..

"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Voss
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Post by Voss » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:50 pm

Well, personally I don't add an h (or even a soft h sound) to ewe, so I think they are in the clear.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:47 pm

> Voss wrote:That said, I _am_ glad it didn't do one of three things: (...) or turn into a dramatic fight scene with overpowered random villain. The latter would have been really off theme.
> (...)
> But it was better than the Q episodes that kicked off season 2.

See, I disagree. I like that the first two season premiers (and the 2nd season finale) had actual fights. The fact that the solution to "Curse of Amnesia/Depression" was "throw a party" was dumb. I was looking forward to the mane six facing off against Sombra, and am disappointed that it did not. Hell, with it not ending in a fight, there was no reason for Shining Armour to be there except as morale support for his wife, since he wasn't even able to use his force field magic.
Also, Draconequine Q was awesome, and is the thing I use to get nerds to give the show a chance.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:38 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... wl3lKJT3is
MLP:FiM Season 3 Episode 1+2: The Crystal Empire WITH COMMERCIALS 1080p HD
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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Ted the Flayer
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Post by Ted the Flayer » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:25 am

> Voss wrote: - Everybody was essentially background, except Twilight & to some extent Spike. Granted this seems intentional with the unexplained Task (that might be Ascension) for later in the season, but it was essentially a reminder of the worst qualities of everyone: Fluttershy is a wimp, Rarity shallow, Rainbow a jerk, Pinkie is random and... uh, well, at least they remember Applejack exists.

Does that mean Applejack's worst trait is existing? Wow, that's harsh...
But seriously, I don't think they know what to do with Applejack. "Being a cowgirl" is the primary constituent of her character, and that's hard. Applebloom is a more complex character and also more interesting (and she's fucking adorable).

> Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.

> Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.

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Voss
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Post by Voss » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:56 am

> Prak_Anima wrote:

> > Voss wrote:That said, I _am_ glad it didn't do one of three things: (...) or turn into a dramatic fight scene with overpowered random villain. The latter would have been really off theme.
> > (...)
> > But it was better than the Q episodes that kicked off season 2.

> See, I disagree. I like that the first two season premiers (and the 2nd season finale) had actual fights. The fact that the solution to "Curse of Amnesia/Depression" was "throw a party" was dumb. I was looking forward to the mane six facing off against Sombra, and am disappointed that it did not. Hell, with it not ending in a fight,

At the end of the day, its a show for little girls about how important friendship is. Knockdown boss battles are pretty much the very essence of off-theme.
And if you noticed, the other premieres didn't have 'fights'. They had a fake charge (trickery, to grab the artifacts) and various forms of mind control (unless you're referring to the Keep Away with Flutterbitch to be a fight), all of which wrap up in the Friendship nuke.
Apart from the CMC brawls, the only real fight scene is during the wedding invasion, and that shit made no sense on a lot of levels. (The bottom one being they couldn't have gotten the Elements _anyway_, because Celestia keeps them in a vault, locked with her own horn).
Now, had they joined together and smacked the random evil unicorn king with the Elements, it would be a bit more on theme, but they very sensibly abandoned the Super-Friendship-Nuke with Q.
The Renfair made sense in context. The responsibility for the whole thing was dumped in Twilight's hooves for, well, reasons, and she immediately went to some of her strengths: research, library and history. That she missed the missing page and the existence of the McGuffin was rather stupid on the part of the writers, but it was a very Twilight solution to the problem as presented. And was at least a tenuous excuse to justify her friends' presence at all, even if it was just as the help.

> there was no reason for Shining Armour to be there except as morale support for his wife, since he wasn't even able to use his force field magic.

Uh, yeah. See little girls and friendship. Also female empowerment.
Now it was a bit odd that their roles were completely reversed from the last time we saw them, but it made a hell of a lot more sense from the standpoint of the show.
I also felt a little bad for the guy (which surprised me, because he is something of a waste), because the first thing I thought of when he got his ass spanked outside the barrier and had black crystal shards embedded in his horn was... unicorn STD.

> Ted the Flayer wrote:Does that mean Applejack's worst trait is existing? Wow, that's harsh...

Not really, they just didn't give her a real moment at all, even a badly defined one. They skipped her 'investigation' session, and then she stood around and kept people away from a blanket. She just didn't have a role in the episode- it honestly would have been better off if she had pleaded to stay home on the farm.

> But seriously, I don't think they know what to do with Applejack. "Being a cowgirl" is the primary constituent of her character, and that's hard. Applebloom is a more complex character and also more interesting (and she's fucking adorable).

Well, being honest and stubborn, too. But the problem with Applejack is she is largely a pretty passive character, she does her own thing and has her farm, and the 'I didn't learn anything' moment happened for a reason: she is content with her life. She has no drive outside of mild competition, because she has literally everything she could possibly want. But that passivity makes her a little boring, especially when compared to everyone else. Her best use is when she's being used as the foil to someone else's issues (either Rarity or Rainbow, usually).
The real problem is she doesn't work well as a counterpart (or counterweight) for Twilight, which is usually fine, as she has a ready excuse not to be present for every little thing. They could conceivably do some Alpha/Beta issues for Applejack and Twilight, but its off theme again. With the others, Twilight has to either motivate them or keep them focused, but AJ is just going to help, competently. Which is great when they split the party (as in Dragonshy), but when everyone has their own thing to do (related to their core competencies) like with the Renfair, all she can do is be competent by herself. And there isn't much to do with that.
Fluttershy has essentially the same problem as Applejack, but has crippling personal issues on top that can at least get some screen time. Both ponies can be used in centered personal development episodes, but Fluttershy makes sense in group excursions episodes like this- her personality & problems can draw some reaction, whereas quiet competence is... kinda dull, especially for a quick 'establishing what the ensemble is doing' bit
That said, Applebloom... isn't what I'd call complex. She's the Kid Who Wants to Be A Grownup, and has essentially a consequence-free world view, and an _extremely_ poor learning curve. Had they built on her immediate defense of Zecora, they could have gone somewhere with the character, but as is, she (and the others) are pretty much stupid comic relief that everyone is free to condescend at. While I like the Crusaders at times, I hope they give them their damn cutie marks this season, because fuck. Enough. I think it reached the saturation point when Twilight and Cheerilee shared a 'are these kids functionally retarded?' moment during the talent show episode.
Last edited by Voss on Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:13 am

Really, I woulda been happy had they just given Applejack more and folksier lines than "more curious than a cat"
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:21 am

> Voss wrote:

> > Prak_Anima wrote:

> > > Voss wrote:That said, I _am_ glad it didn't do one of three things: (...) or turn into a dramatic fight scene with overpowered random villain. The latter would have been really off theme.
> > > (...)
> > > But it was better than the Q episodes that kicked off season 2.

> > See, I disagree. I like that the first two season premiers (and the 2nd season finale) had actual fights. The fact that the solution to "Curse of Amnesia/Depression" was "throw a party" was dumb. I was looking forward to the mane six facing off against Sombra, and am disappointed that it did not. Hell, with it not ending in a fight,

> At the end of the day, its a show for little girls about how important friendship is. Knockdown boss battles are pretty much the very essence of off-theme.

So was Powerpuff Girls, and that, to my knowledge had fights.

> And if you noticed, the other premieres didn't have 'fights'. They had a fake charge (trickery, to grab the artifacts) and various forms of mind control (unless you're referring to the Keep Away with Flutterbitch to be a fight), all of which wrap up in the Friendship nuke.
> Apart from the CMC brawls, the only real fight scene is during the wedding invasion, and that shit made no sense on a lot of levels. (The bottom one being they couldn't have gotten the Elements _anyway_, because Celestia keeps them in a vault, locked with her own horn).

Ok, they end in action scenes, and each character has a reason to be there, even if only to use their power item. (Though I really think that Fluttershy is an even more useless Mati...)
Last edited by Prak on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Voss
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Post by Voss » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:22 pm

> Prak_Anima wrote: So was Powerpuff Girls, and that, to my knowledge had fights.

PPG was at least as much a super-hero parody show as it was a children's show. Even the parts that weren't open parody were based on the premise that they were superheroes and they solved problems by punching them in the face.
The central premise of MLP from the first opening clip is 'Get out and make friends' because that solves literally everything, up to and including insane moon goddesses.
It is an entirely different genre, much like Buffy and One Tree Hill.

> Ok, they end in action scenes, and each character has a reason to be there, even if only to use their power item. (Though I really think that Fluttershy is an even more useless Mati...)

Action scenes are not the same as fight scenes. The latter is a subset of the former, and most of the action in MLP is simply running (whether it is through a maze or up a tower). Even for the end of Q, the 'action' is chasing down Rainbow to reverse the mind-fuckery. With memories of friendship. Then the action stops. They walk up to Q, banter, and he casually sits back and waits to be friendship-nuked.
[/i]
Last edited by Voss on Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:30 pm

Well part of the crossover appeal of FiM is that it is a little girl's cartoon with the sort of action and adventure scenes more common in boy's shows.
Violence has never been the solution in the show, but it has been an element in the season 1 premier, Dragonshy, Swarm of the Century, Feeling Pinkie Keen, Dog and Pony Show, Over a Barrel, Secret of My Excess, Read it an Weep and Canterlot Wedding.
Furthermore, there are times where use of non-violent force (Boast Busters, Feeling Pinkie Keen) and/or assertiveness/intimidation (Dragonshy, Putting your Hoof Down) has been the solution.
The "this is why we can't just fight Sombra" scene was so minimal was probably a poor choice, and it would have been a better episode if the mane 6 had an actual plan fail there than merely having big brother's horn lasers miss and result in horn dysfunction..
Last edited by Josh_Kablack on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:28 pm

Am I the only one who thinks that Crystal Empire was a rush job, possibly because they'd planned for Royal Wedding to be the season 3 premier, and it got bumped up?
Edit: actually, I figured out my real problem with the episode. Nothing seemed to happen. It was
"Oh noes! Celestia has a test for me!" *cue Twilight being a superdork*
"Oh Twilight, not that kind of test... a test where you have a very real chance of dying!" [trollestia.jpg]
"What, but I thought I was going to have to use my strengths, like memorizing useless facts!" *cue song*
"Oh, so the princess is sending you to the ass end of Equestria to stop an ancient evil? Lets go!" *cue another song*
"Twilight! I'm glad you're here! Lets go inside before we get molested by the smog monster from Lost!"
"Oh hey! I can use one of my strengthes! A Research Paper! Lets go talk to people!....no one's talking. Damnit. Oh, there's a library! ...the librarian doesn't even remember if she is the librarian... let's rummage through the books. Hey! I found it! Oh, we just have to throw a party!"
*cue party thrown. It works, they find out the crystal heart's a relic, not just a random heart carved from crystal.*
"I'll go find it! You guys, keep the party going!"
*scary door*
*laser light show*
*villain defeated by aura of love*
The end.
Last edited by Prak on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:20 pm

the only thing i did not like about it was "too much song".
and why the hell is the gak commercial suddenly the next big meme? <.<
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:39 pm

Because meme fans latch onto anything weird and incongruous. And apparently found it hilarious that they're trying to bring Gak back.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Shrapnel
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Post by Shrapnel » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:11 am

I was wondering: If the ponies espouse things like friendship and love and fashion parties, then why do they fight... things? Doesn't that kinda go against everything about "friendship" being "magic"?
Is this wretched demi-bee
Half asleep upon my knee
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It's Eric, the half a bee
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Ted the Flayer
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Post by Ted the Flayer » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:02 am

RAINBOW DASH MADE FLUTTERSHY CRY! It is not possible for me to describe the butthurt I feel right now...

> Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.

> Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.

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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:49 am

Well on the initial TV broadcast of the season three premier there were so many GAK commercials it could have been running for re-election.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:28 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_lIjLwhsfQ
Episode 3.
Kinda a bit questionable.
and here is a bit of an insider:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mW6ErFS5xo
Last edited by Stahlseele on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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Ted the Flayer
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Post by Ted the Flayer » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:33 am

I want a couple pinky clones...

> Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.

> Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.

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Post by Stahlseele » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:17 am

it'd be a good ammount of FUN for a certain time, yes ..
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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Ted the Flayer
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Post by Ted the Flayer » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:24 pm

I bet you could teach them to play D and D. Or Smash Brothers.

> Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.

> Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:56 pm

Probably more Smash Brothers, the clones seemed to have the attention span of ADHD goldfish on sugar highs.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Ted the Flayer
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Post by Ted the Flayer » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:39 pm

I had a cat like that.

> Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.

> Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.

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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:38 am

Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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