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radthemad4
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Post by radthemad4 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:41 pm

What happens if a monogendered creature (e.g. Satyr, Nymph) puts on a Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity?
I have a patreon. If I get enough, I could quit my day job and do stuff full time
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:58 am

The way I'd rule it? Magical effect, you get a satyr with child-rearing parts, or a nymph with seed-delivering parts.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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TiaC
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Post by TiaC » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:18 am

I assume you mean a nymph with pollen-creating flowers? Plant sex is amazingly weird.

> virgil wrote:Lovecraft didn't later add a love triangle between Dagon, Chtulhu, & the Colour-Out-of-Space; only to have it broken up through cyber-bullying by the King in Yellow.

> FrankTrollman wrote:If your enemy is fucking Gravity, are you helping or hindering it by putting things on high shelves? I don't fucking know! That's not even a thing. Your enemy can't be Gravity, because that's stupid.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:06 am

No, I mean a nymph with a dick, because nymphs are not plants.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:06 am

> Prak wrote:No, I mean a nymph with a dick, because nymphs are not plants.

Last edited by Count Arioch the 28th on Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:07 am

For that, Count, you want a dryad, or possibly a horse-shaped topiary guardian.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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radthemad4
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Post by radthemad4 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:09 am

> TiaC wrote:I assume you mean a nymph with pollen-creating flowers? Plant sex is amazingly weird.

You're thinking of dryads.

> Prak wrote:The way I'd rule it? Magical effect, you get a satyr with child-rearing parts, or a nymph with seed-delivering parts.

How would you rule their offspring? e.g. fe/male satyr/nymph + humanoid race, or fe/male satyr/nymph + fe/male nymph/satyr. Would their kids still have their 'racial' gender?
Last edited by radthemad4 on Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:19 am

I'd rule that it doesn't matter, but if someone really wanted it to, I'd draw up Punnett Squares with a Magic allele.
Last edited by Prak on Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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radthemad4
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Post by radthemad4 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:03 pm

Nah, that's okay. Though, I think it kinda matters as if it's possible to create more creatures that don't have their 'racial' sex, the species would cease being monogendered (though it'd still have a skewed ratio). Given that most fantasy races have been around for a while, it seems like this sort of thing would already have happened (though I suppose there probably aren't too many transexuals who also want kids and have access to magic sex changes).
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 pm

I'd rule that it sticks with the racial gender, at least for races that can potentially breed true. If they can only produce half-X with other races, I honestly have no clue. It might not even work at all.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:38 am

Well, I mean, yes, there's a curiosity factor for a single satyr/nymph changing sex with a magic item. If it were a PC and they got laid, and a pregnancy resulted, I'd ask the player how much they cared, given the time spans involved in raising a kid. If they did care, I'd consider that part of their character, and if they wanted a specific result, I'd talk it over with them.
Outside of that, or in-world, the way I'd handle it is that I'd say the following-
Satyr X chromosomes are such that they cannot pair with another X chromosome.
Nymph chromosomes only pair with X chromosomes.
Because magic.
The Girdle of SRS changes the chromosomes of a satyr or nymph such that the satyr now has two X chromosomes, one of which (the former Y) can pair with another X (since it wasn't magic-locked), or a Y, and the nymph such that the nymph now has an XY chromosome, both of which can only pair with X chromosomes.
Everything past that depends on whether and when you say the chromosomes revert, but at a shallow glance (which is mine, given that I took a bio class in high school and a general ed bio class in college), it would seem that GoSRS'd satyrs and nymphs just have offspring that is broadly typical, chromosomally-speaking, of duogendered species, at least for lay purposes.
The one thing I'd say is that such births might be slightly more likely to evidence various chromosomal conditions like Klinefelter (XXY), Triple-X, XXYY, and so on.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:15 am

What if you put the girdle on a clown fish
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radthemad4
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Post by radthemad4 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:47 pm

I last studied biology at grade 7 so I'll need to look up some of that stuff. I should probably pick up an introductory textbook at some point, just for general knowledge.

> name_here wrote:I'd rule that it sticks with the racial gender, at least for races that can potentially breed true. If they can only produce half-X with other races, I honestly have no clue. It might not even work at all.

So Satyr+female Satyr=Male Satyr, Female Satyr+Male Nymph=Male Satyr or Female Nymph, Male Nymph+Female Nymph=Female Nymph, that sort of thing?

> Wikipedia wrote:Clownfish are sequential hermaphrodites, meaning that they develop into males first, and when they mature, they become females. If the female clownfish is removed from the group, such as by death, one of the largest and most dominant males will become a female. The remaining males will move up a rank in the hierarchy.

All clownfish are born male. Slap a girdle on a male and it simply turns female. Slap one on a female, and it'll turn male, but then just turn female again as it already did that before, unless the girdle reactivates itself or imposes some sort of mode lock (unless it was a young male fish that got girdled, in which case a second girdle would turn it male again and it'd stay that way till it ages enough to become female).
*I've probably mixed up the words gender and sex a few times in the above posts. I was always referring to sex, i.e. XX or XY chromosomes.
Last edited by radthemad4 on Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:33 am

> radthemad4 wrote:So Satyr+female Satyr=Male Satyr, Female Satyr+Male Nymph=Male Satyr or Female Nymph, Male Nymph+Female Nymph=Female Nymph, that sort of thing?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:12 am

So, I got a set of eastern mysticism themed dice from a kickstarter I'd backed yesterday, and it got me thinking about the kung fu AS hack I wanted to do back when it was running (yes, I know Midgard isn't finished).
So in this game of chi-using martial artists fighting supernatural monsters and each other, actual martial artists are on a ritual power schedule (meditation), and monster can probably fill out the other two, but the idea is for mystic martial arts techniques to take the place of magic (though some supernaturals may have "Fist of Flame, but it's a magical ability, not martial arts" or the like), but I've been banging my head against what to do about power sources. Suggestions?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Mask_De_H
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Post by Mask_De_H » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:54 am

Your main power source would be chi, obviously, but there's also power from the spirits and Taoist alchemical power.

> FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.

> K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.

> Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.

> Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:00 am

Yeah, Chi was the obvious one, but I couldn't think of another couple to group with it. Chi, Spirit and Alchemy/Tao could work pretty well, though. I like it.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:46 am

Chi for power that comes from within you and personally cultivated. Dragon Ball powers.
Geomancy for power that comes from your environment, ley/dragon lines and such. It's Chi that comes from external environmental sources.
Boons for power that comes from divine beings granting it to you or possessing you. Your monotheist miracle workers use this power source.
These three also fit neatly into a "Heaven, Earth, Man" trinity. Taoist written talismans, mudra hand-seals can fit into the above or be their own category.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:57 am

Nice, that gives a nice, inter-related setup that I was hoping for.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Longes
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Post by Longes » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:29 pm

Out of all Thaumaturgy paths published for Vampire the Masquerade, which are the best and why?
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Longes
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Post by Longes » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:09 am

> Longes wrote:Out of all Thaumaturgy paths published for Vampire the Masquerade, which are the best and why?

Answering my own question: oh god, Setite sorcerer with Focused Mind. Akhu doesn't cost blood, and Focused Mind doesn't take an action to cast.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:16 pm

> Longes wrote:

> > Longes wrote:Out of all Thaumaturgy paths published for Vampire the Masquerade, which are the best and why?

> Answering my own question: oh god, Setite sorcerer with Focused Mind. Akhu doesn't cost blood, and Focused Mind doesn't take an action to cast.

The Focused Mind is everyone's second path of magic if they can arrange it. It's a raw powerup to anything you care to do, but it doesn't really do anything per se. Whatever it is you're doing can, with five dots of Focused Mind, be done twice per turn at lower difficulties. And that's awesome, but only if you first have something vaguely decent to do with your actions. Akhu has some pretty decent shit in it. What you'll want to use as your "payload" will depend on what version of the rules you are using.
But I think you've got some basic suppositions that are going to get you in trouble. Tremere Thaumaturgy got hit with the nerf stick a bit during the "final nights" book and was more expensive to use after that. Other, more obscure forms of magic such as Akhu and Abyss Mysticism were not. But if your storyteller is using the magic nerfs from a Final Nights book, I doubt they would let you use a magic path from another older book without getting similarly kicked in the jimmy.
What the most powerful path of thaumaturgy is depends greatly on what you intend to do with it. The first dot of Spirit Thaumaturgy allows you to fuck around for a couple actions to absolutely guaranty that another character botches a single test of your choosing. If you turn a Werewolf into a completely overpowered Vampire-Werewolf Abomination, they die and do not get to keep their ridiculous power unless they botch a Gnosis roll. The Evil Eye isn't much good as an attack, but holy fucking shit it converts a basic werewolf suicide pact into the superest bestest most reliable source of asymmetric power in the whole game. If you have a bunch of werewolf players and a Storyteller who will let you do that, a single dot of Spirit Thaumaturgy makes you win the game.
-Username17
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Ancient History
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Post by Ancient History » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:25 pm

Some of the paths are just weird; there's one from the Sielanic thaumaturgy paths that gives you a free dot in your highest discipline or some shit whenever you use it, and the Koldunic sorcery "Path of the Spirit" seriously goes up to 6, which breaks the rules in several ways. As Frank mentioned, a lot of the more egregious abuses tend to happen if you mix game systems - for example, there's some really weird combination of bullshit where a vampire can learn Mummy powers via human sorcery and blood magic (I said it was complicated), and some of those powers are demonstrably better than equivalent Vampire disciplines. Also, there's crap like the "Infinite Blood Beer" hack for ghouls we noted in the Ghouls OSSR, and a mummy necromancer really is a wraith's best ally in that they can basically create relics whenever they want and rip the fucking shadow right out of them.
Deep Cuts In A Lovecraftian Vein
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Longes
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Post by Longes » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:37 pm

> Frank wrote:The Focused Mind is everyone's second path of magic if they can arrange it. It's a raw powerup to anything you care to do, but it doesn't really do anything per se. Whatever it is you're doing can, with five dots of Focused Mind, be done twice per turn at lower difficulties. And that's awesome, but only if you first have something vaguely decent to do with your actions. Akhu has some pretty decent shit in it. What you'll want to use as your "payload" will depend on what version of the rules you are using.

It's good even as your first path. 1 dot is +[Willpower]d10 to any Wits roll or initiative roll. 2 dot removes wound penalties, makes you (or your friends) harder to frenzy, and calms down werewolves. 3 dot (one-track mind) is good outside of combat, and locks down a Celerity in combat. Dual Thought is useless without other disciplines, outside of few edge cases (break cipher while fighting a werewolf). 5 dot gives -2 diff to all actions, +2 diff to attempts to control you, and makes you immune to fear and frenzy. Focused Mind is awesome.

> Frank wrote:But I think you've got some basic suppositions that are going to get you in trouble. Tremere Thaumaturgy got hit with the nerf stick a bit during the "final nights" book and was more expensive to use after that. Other, more obscure forms of magic such as Akhu and Abyss Mysticism were not. But if your storyteller is using the magic nerfs from a Final Nights book, I doubt they would let you use a magic path from another older book without getting similarly kicked in the jimmy.

People usually use V20 as a base nowadays, without even remembering about Final Nights books.
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Longes
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Post by Longes » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:53 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:

> > Longes wrote:

> > > Longes wrote:Out of all Thaumaturgy paths published for Vampire the Masquerade, which are the best and why?

> > Answering my own question: oh god, Setite sorcerer with Focused Mind. Akhu doesn't cost blood, and Focused Mind doesn't take an action to cast.

> The Focused Mind is everyone's second path of magic if they can arrange it. It's a raw powerup to anything you care to do, but it doesn't really do anything per se. Whatever it is you're doing can, with five dots of Focused Mind, be done twice per turn at lower difficulties. And that's awesome, but only if you first have something vaguely decent to do with your actions. Akhu has some pretty decent shit in it. What you'll want to use as your "payload" will depend on what version of the rules you are using.
> But I think you've got some basic suppositions that are going to get you in trouble. Tremere Thaumaturgy got hit with the nerf stick a bit during the "final nights" book and was more expensive to use after that. Other, more obscure forms of magic such as Akhu and Abyss Mysticism were not. But if your storyteller is using the magic nerfs from a Final Nights book, I doubt they would let you use a magic path from another older book without getting similarly kicked in the jimmy.
> What the most powerful path of thaumaturgy is depends greatly on what you intend to do with it. The first dot of Spirit Thaumaturgy allows you to fuck around for a couple actions to absolutely guaranty that another character botches a single test of your choosing. If you turn a Werewolf into a completely overpowered Vampire-Werewolf Abomination, they die and do not get to keep their ridiculous power unless they botch a Gnosis roll. The Evil Eye isn't much good as an attack, but holy fucking shit it converts a basic werewolf suicide pact into the superest bestest most reliable source of asymmetric power in the whole game. If you have a bunch of werewolf players and a Storyteller who will let you do that, a single dot of Spirit Thaumaturgy makes you win the game.
> -Username17

Well, my concept for the next character is clear - a Setite pub owner with the evil plan of turning all local vampires into alcoholics with his delicious drinkable beer, and then (as a monopolist) driving up the prices. I'm really not sure what Path to take. Divine Hand is awesome (and a Setite origami master is funny and weird), but the need for True Name for supernaturals is annoying.
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