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## The Apple thread - Why do people buy Apple products?

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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:09 pm

LIKE WHAT
Seriously. What are some actual products that were worth using before the iPad came out. I looked around trying to find something I could carry with me in lieu of an mp3 player (like a super-mp3 player, or basically a bigger smartphone) long before the iPad, and I came up with nothing. The only thing I found that even came close was the Arcos, which was also a lot smaller while still being a lot bulkier, and far more limited in capabilities.
Last edited by Surgo on Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:27 pm

The new android phones are shit software wise compared to the iphone, the giant sized samsung (which a giant sized friend of mine bought as its to scale for him), concluded with:
"The hardware is amazing but apple shits all over the software"
This is a qualified software engineer who works in the industry and uses linux on his main PC and windows on his gaming rig, so you're not looking at a non technical user or apple fantatic.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:59 pm

> RiotGearEpsilon wrote:I have two computers, a PC and an Apple. The PC is a top of the line gaming rig I built from components myself. The Apple is an AirBook that would chug trying to run games from three years ago. The PC occasionally shuts down with no warning or error message - literally going from on to off in the span of half a second, usually in the middle of a game. The Apple does not.
> It's reliable, is all.

Did it occur to you that if the apple runs "reliably" because it's doing less shit, that's easier to do than your top of the line rig? So if you spent $400 on your computer instead of $2000, you could have bought a computer that could do everything your apple does just as reliably as your apple.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:07 am

Airbook is nice piece of hardware, nice form factor if you need an ultraportable.
Comparing the two is like trying to compare my leather folio and an orange though. One is for eating, one is for carrying documents in...
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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:27 am

> Surgo wrote:LIKE WHAT

The entire "netbook" category. Seriously.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:33 am

The number of non-gaming related PC crashes I've had over the lifetime of my past two computers (taking me back 6-7 years?) is basically "I can't remember any." I can count the bluescreens on my fingers. I really don't get the idea that PC computers are glitchy messes. That hasn't really been true since XP except in high-performance machines doing high-performance tasks where your video card drivers and application software screw you or you stress the hardware to its limits (power supply problems, cooling problems).
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:33 am

Different form factors, it's hard to compare something with a touch screen vs a keyboard interface.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:41 am

> cthulhu wrote:Airbook is nice piece of hardware, nice form factor if you need an ultraportable.
> Comparing the two is like trying to compare my leather folio and an orange though. One is for eating, one is for carrying documents in...

Comparing the two what? A Laptop that weighs twice what an airbook does, has all the same specs, more USB ports, a CD drive and is otherwise identical to an airbook that costs 3.5 times as much?
I mean, yes, if you are willing to spend $1200 for the having a slightly smaller laptop, then you should buy an Airbook. But frankly, I'm having difficulty imagining anyone in the entire world that can carry around a 3 pound laptop, but would be too inconvenient with a 6 pound laptop.
Now, if you could scale up to 10 pounds, you could get a bigger screen with all better specs than an Airbook for $400, IE one of the various laptops I was comparing to the larger Macbook Pros, that are nearly equivalent to them, except for cost.
EDIT: I personally haven't had a BSD or total system crash since Windows 98. SO yes, I suspect reliability is just people being dumbfucks.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:57 am

> Kaelik wrote:

> > cthulhu wrote:Airbook is nice piece of hardware, nice form factor if you need an ultraportable.
> > Comparing the two is like trying to compare my leather folio and an orange though. One is for eating, one is for carrying documents in...

> Comparing the two what? A Laptop that weighs twice what an airbook does, has all the same specs, more USB ports, a CD drive and is otherwise identical to an airbook that costs 3.5 times as much?
> I mean, yes, if you are willing to spend $1200 for the having a slightly smaller laptop, then you should buy an Airbook. But frankly, I'm having difficulty imagining anyone in the entire world that can carry around a 3 pound laptop, but would be too inconvenient with a 6 pound laptop.
> Now, if you could scale up to 10 pounds, you could get a bigger screen with all better specs than an Airbook for $400, IE one of the various laptops I was comparing to the larger Macbook Pros, that are nearly equivalent to them, except for cost.

Yeah, it mostly makes sense for professionals. If you're moving to 6 times and carrying the thing fucking constantly a 10 pound laptop is super annoying. If it's just going to sit on your desk, you wouldn't even consider an ultra portable.
Last edited by cthulhu on Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:05 am

I get a lot of annoying errors with Windows 7, but nothing on the BSOD level - just things like "Fuck, I need to enter Task Manager and kill Windows Explorer, then wait for the desktop and start menu to reappear". I don't recall ever having a problem even that "big" with XP that wasn't a hardware problem.
And if you choose to go to the Apple forums, or just google stuff, you'll find that Apple products certainly don't "Just work". But people actually believe those stupid ads. I'm pretty sure people simply believe anything the TV tells them.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:05 am

> cthulhu wrote:Yeah, it mostly makes sense for professionals. If you're moving to 6 times and carrying the thing fucking constantly a 10 pound laptop is super annoying. If it's just going to sit on your desk, you wouldn't even consider an ultra portable.

See, this, what are you all 2 feet tall?
It's ten pounds, not the totality of existence. Fuck, that's the heavy one that's way better than the airbook, if you get the smaller one it's like 6 pounds. Surely if you have the time to fucking open your laptop and use it at all, you can carry around six fucking pounds when costs you over 1000 dollars to have a much worse laptop that is 3 pounds.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:19 am

> Kaelik wrote:

> > cthulhu wrote:Yeah, it mostly makes sense for professionals. If you're moving to 6 times and carrying the thing fucking constantly a 10 pound laptop is super annoying. If it's just going to sit on your desk, you wouldn't even consider an ultra portable.

> See, this, what are you all 2 feet tall?
> It's ten pounds, not the totality of existence. Fuck, that's the heavy one that's way better than the airbook, if you get the smaller one it's like 6 pounds. Surely if you have the time to fucking open your laptop and use it at all, you can carry around six fucking pounds when costs you over 1000 dollars to have a much worse laptop that is 3 pounds.

I've worked as a consultant for about 7 years now, using a variety of HP, Dell, IBM, Lenovo, Toshiba and Apple tablets and PCs. It's definately a horses for corses question. For example:
Usecase: Two plus flights a day (sometimes 3), multiple meetings at different locations. Laptop will typically be carried in hand for atleast an hour a day ('big' bag (and by big I mean a 6 kilo carry on with a weeks worth of clothes and suits in it) is left at the hotel, slip case and note pad are carried, don't want to carry a second bag because that means checking luggage, so waiting in the lobby laptop is held).
10 pounds is fucking annoying as all hell to carry in your hand around all day like that. Plus big laptops don't fit into the space on a plane (I'm a fat bastard though so that is part of the issue) if you need to do some work during the flight. It also probably violates the weight limits and I do not want to have to check my bag.
I travel quite a bit less now so I have a generic midrange IBM, but I still have to pack up my crap and move it 8+ times a day. A 4.5 kilo laptop would be extremely annoying. Mostly due to size, the midrange fits in a small bag and can be easily carried around, from experince the big fat desktop replacements are much worse at this (partly it's the cases of them too).
Other features are missing as well - this has a liquids catchment under the keyboard, lots of big desktop replacements don't. Unfortunately the new IBMs (Lenovos I guess) have shit build quality, but the old ones have a much better case. I used to be able to crash a bulky dell I had by squeezing the case in the wrong place, which I did all the time by picking it up. The HP midrange was much better.
Performance wise these are for work, so the only questions that matter are "Can it run outlook and word at the same time?" As they are for business use costs are expensed to the firm.
I have no idea why you'd buy any of these products for personal use if you were a gamer or whatever. I have a desktop PC for that.
Edit: I've actually had the use of TWO dells that crashed when you squeezed the case, so maybe it's just dells and not all large laptops that have these issues, but yeah stuff like that is fucking annoying when you move your laptop all the time. Whoops, BSOD for you when you tried to go the next meeting!
Last edited by cthulhu on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:18 am

My sister's laptop is an hp, and she dropped the thing on the frigging tile floor (accidentally, of course). And it still works just fine. So... I don't think all laptops are automatically fragile, no.
And seriously, an hour a day carrying 10lbs sounds like nothing. I don't pretend to be a musclegirl, but seriously.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:31 am

Yes, I'm going to have to a: Repeat, are you two feet tall?
b: You keep talking about "desktop replacements" No, I'm talking about laptops with much better specs than a mac airbook, and that are slightly larger. Not desktop replacements. Just laptops of the size that millions of people managed to not cry about carrying around before the airbook. Frankly, they are all so tiny I refuse to use them, because my hands don't fit on the goddam keyboards and I am legitimately worried that I might crack them in half based on how thin they are. These are not desktop replacements, and they fact that you complain about carrying it for an hour a day blows my mind, because I carry around books heavier than that on a regular basis.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:33 am

10 pounds is a desktop replacement. 6 pounds is a heavy midrange. Airbook is about 2.5? pounds if I remember correctly.
eh, fair enough your mileage may vary though (though I suggest standing around, shaking hands and having a 20 minute conversation carrying a 5 kilo weight plus your folio for a sampler of how fucking annoying it is).
Other part of the issue, what the hell is the extra 3 kilos buying you? A slightly bigger screen (cannot use, doesn't fit on planes), and a graphics card for driving MS 2003 to the limit?
Desktop replacements are ass to carry in a portable role. a 2.2 KG dell is more than enough. If you're on the move all the time, not carrying the extra for the dell and going for a really light weight laptop (doesn't have to be the air, just finished playing with one of the new toshibas, is really nice too).
It's even worse if you have to carry a projector. I double dog dare you to pack a suit, 3 shirts, underwear + socks, whatever casual clothes you wear, a 2.2kg laptop, a projector into a suitcase and keep it under 7 KG.
Last edited by cthulhu on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:53 am

> Josh_Kablack wrote:

> > Surgo wrote:LIKE WHAT

> The entire "netbook" category. Seriously.

Most were pretty terrible from an ergonomic perspective. I'd honestly rather go for a full-blown laptop if I needed that much computing power and extensive keyboard use, OR an iPad / Tablet if I need something less intrusive but without the need for huge processing power.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:06 am

I'm comfortable hiking with a 70 lb pack, and I still use an X61 Thinkpad because it weighs only 4 lbs and barely takes up any space at all.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:58 am

> cthulhu wrote:10 pounds is a desktop replacement. 6 pounds is a heavy midrange. Airbook is about 2.5? pounds if I remember correctly.
> eh, fair enough your mileage may vary though (though I suggest standing around, shaking hands and having a 20 minute conversation carrying a 5 kilo weight plus your folio for a sampler of how fucking annoying it is).
> Other part of the issue, what the hell is the extra 3 kilos buying you? A slightly bigger screen (cannot use, doesn't fit on planes), and a graphics card for driving MS 2003 to the limit?
> Desktop replacements are ass to carry in a portable role. a 2.2 KG dell is more than enough. If you're on the move all the time, not carrying the extra for the dell and going for a really light weight laptop (doesn't have to be the air, just finished playing with one of the new toshibas, is really nice too).
> It's even worse if you have to carry a projector. I double dog dare you to pack a suit, 3 shirts, underwear + socks, whatever casual clothes you wear, a 2.2kg laptop, a projector into a suitcase and keep it under 7 KG.

Okay, a) this isn't worth my time when you start talking in Kilos. But no, the Airbook weighs 3 pounds, 2.96 I believe, so yes, the extra 3 pounds gets you one thousand fucking dollars! also, faster processor, more ram, more software options. But really, the main deal is the fucking 1000 goddam dollars.
b) I mean, if your argument is "If you could have anything for free, and no one you care about is spending the money, which do you choose" it's possible to occasionally choose a horrifically overpriced trash. But if you are buying it yourself, you should never by an Apple, and if someone you actually care about at all is buying it for you, you should tell them not to, because they could save you 1000 fucking dollars.
c) But I do like how you've backed down from "Only AIRBOOKS ARE LIGHT ENOUGH FOR CARRYING" to "Oh yeah, and 1000 dollar cheaper laptops from other companies." You know, the laptops I've been suggesting people get instead this whole time.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:51 am

> Koumei wrote:And seriously, an hour a day carrying 10lbs sounds like nothing. I don't pretend to be a musclegirl, but seriously.

In hand. To translate, go buy 5 kilo of meat, put it in a shopping bag, and walk around for an hour. It fucking sucks. Your hands hurt, you end up stopping, putting the bag down, and wiggling your fingers a lot before resuming your trip.
I had a great vanity case that I used to use a lot for travel, but if I had to carry it for long periods of time, I'd stop to find a cold glass window or railing so I could lay my hands on it and give them a break.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:30 am

> Kaelik wrote:
> c) But I do like how you've backed down from "Only AIRBOOKS ARE LIGHT ENOUGH FOR CARRYING" to "Oh yeah, and 1000 dollar cheaper laptops from other companies." You know, the laptops I've been suggesting people get instead this whole time.

I think you'll find I said two things:
A) the Airbook is a nice ultraportable

> Airbook is nice piece of hardware, nice form factor if you need an ultraportable.

B) If you're carrying the thing fucking constantly, you want to buy an ultraportable.

> Yeah, it mostly makes sense for professionals. If you're moving to 6 times and carrying the thing fucking constantly a 10 pound laptop is super annoying. If it's just going to sit on your desk, you wouldn't even consider an ultra portable.

I never said the airbook is the only good ultra-portable...
Last edited by cthulhu on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:31 am

EDIT: Chthulu
By definition, anything that has worse specs and costs 3 times as much is not a nice ultraportable.

> Maj wrote:In hand. To translate, go buy 5 kilo of meat, put it in a shopping bag, and walk around for an hour. It fucking sucks. Your hands hurt, you end up stopping, putting the bag down, and wiggling your fingers a lot before resuming your trip.

a) we've all held 10 lbs before, in our hands. Thanks.
b) laptop bags and briefcases have better handles than plastic bags. So alternatively, we could hold a ten pound laptop bag in our hands to try it out.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:34 am

> Kaelik wrote:

> > Maj wrote:In hand. To translate, go buy 5 kilo of meat, put it in a shopping bag, and walk around for an hour. It fucking sucks. Your hands hurt, you end up stopping, putting the bag down, and wiggling your fingers a lot before resuming your trip.

> a) we've all held 10 lbs before, in our hands. Thanks.
> b) laptop bags and briefcases have better handles than plastic bags. So alternatively, we could hold a ten pound laptop bag in our hands to try it out.

It would be great if I could take a briefcase AND a carry on onto the plane, but that's against the rules because the firm won't spring for business class. I've tried fitting my briefcase into my carryon before but it doesn't work.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:36 am

> cthulhu wrote:It would be great if I could take a briefcase AND a carry on onto the plane, but that's against the rules because the firm won't spring for business class. I've tried fitting my briefcase into my carryon before but it doesn't work.

?? You can't fit your laptop into your carry on? Oh, then I think the only solution is to go ask your boss to fire you, because you are so fucking retarded you don't deserve to live.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:44 am

> Kaelik wrote:

> > cthulhu wrote:It would be great if I could take a briefcase AND a carry on onto the plane, but that's against the rules because the firm won't spring for business class. I've tried fitting my briefcase into my carryon before but it doesn't work.

> ?? You can't fit your laptop into your carry on? Oh, then I think the only solution is to go ask your boss to fire you, because you are so fucking retarded you don't deserve to live.

Right, so now you get to the hotel and unpack a bit, now you have to a meeting. Do you
A) Take your entire carry on (a maximal sized wheelie bag which has all your personal gear in it and will be unzipped in front of a client who will then discover your preference in boxer shorts. It's also pretty heavy because I cheat on the weight limits)
B) Take your laptop and folio only?
B is the obvious winner to me, particularly if I have a number of meetings in rapid succession, but I can see the case for A. It's seriously annoying though.
Incidently, I checked and the airbook costs $100 more than the Thinkpad X1 except the X1 has a better processer?
http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/s ... air/select
http://shopap.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/co ... 9888AE085E
Just really not seeing the 3 times price difference here sorry.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:00 am

You take B, but that has nothing to do with anything, because nothing about having a carry on prevents you from putting your laptop in a laptop bag.
I mean, the actual regulations are very clear. You get one personal item, and one carry on, and the personal item can be a laptop bag, one of the nice ones, designed to also fit your portfolio. Whatever you keep in a portfolio back in the 80s when you live.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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