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Wiseman
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### Called Shots

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Post by Wiseman » Fri May 10, 2013 8:25 pm

Been wondering recently how one would do a "called shot" mechanic in dnd. For example, something like "I shoot the beholder in it's center eye so our casters can nuke it."
My thoughts would be something like taking a penalty to your attack roll, but I was thinking that even if you miss, you'd still have a good chance of hitting the enemy.
EDIT: This question has probably been asked. If so, then could someone point me to the thread?
Last edited by Wiseman on Fri May 10, 2013 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fbmf
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Post by fbmf » Fri May 10, 2013 8:53 pm

I've never seen Called Shots (at least like you're describing) be a good thing in any edition of D&D. To be fair, I've never played 4E.
That said, a penalty to hit in exchange for an awesome effect (death effect, crippling effect) if you hit is usually how I've seen it handled.
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Whatever
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Post by Whatever » Fri May 10, 2013 11:12 pm

Called Shot [General]
Prerequisite
Str 13 or Dex 13
Benefit
On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee and ranged attack rolls and add the same number to all melee and ranged damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.
A fighter may select Called Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Alternatively, it could be some system for applying conditions (fatigued, blinded, sickened, w/e). But that'd require more work.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sat May 11, 2013 12:29 am

There's a variant in the DMG for called shots. Basically you take a -4 and if you succeed you crit against the called location.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Wiseman
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Post by Wiseman » Sat May 11, 2013 1:12 am

> Whatever wrote:Called Shot [General]
> Prerequisite
> Str 13 or Dex 13
> Benefit
> On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee and ranged attack rolls and add the same number to all melee and ranged damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Isn't that basically power attack?
Last edited by Wiseman on Sat May 11, 2013 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Whatever
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Post by Whatever » Sat May 11, 2013 1:17 am

Let's check!
Power Attack [General]
Prerequisite
Str 13.
Benefit
On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.
A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Yup, it's the same. What an odd coincidence.
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wotmaniac
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Post by wotmaniac » Sat May 11, 2013 4:29 am

I toyed with a little something a couple of years ago; but I finally just pulled a Mearls on it.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Mon May 13, 2013 2:54 am

> Whatever wrote:Yup, it's the same. What an odd coincidence.

Other than the fact that it doesn't answer the example from the OP, this is hilarious.
On-topic: I think called shots should just be put in on a case-by-case basis, like the Beholder's eye needs an entry about how it can be stabbed out, that way you don't need to write something for every limb a person has.

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Post by Koumei » Mon May 13, 2013 3:03 am

> fbmf wrote:I've never seen Called Shots (at least like you're describing) be a good thing in any edition of D&D.

I'd go further than that: I've never seen it work well ever. Whether it's the Heart-Staking in Vampire, which is so hard you just don't do it, or the "declare every attack to be a called shot, all it means is that if you hit but not by enough, you just do a normal hit, but if you hit by enough you specifically maim that part!" of Rifts, or the "As Rifts (if you have a talent for it), -20% accuracy (otherwise)" of Dork Heresy.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon May 13, 2013 3:52 am

Ok, so I finally checked. What I was remembering from DMG was on page 27 where the sidebar just said "if this location is hit, take this penalty."
If a player wanted wanted to hit a specific location on a body, I'd probably say "treat it as being a creature of an appropriate size" usually two-three, maybe four categories smaller than the creature, or apply a -4 to the attack, whichever is greater. So an orc's eye is fine sized, so it has an AC of 8 points higher than the orc (though if it's not wearing a helm, I might say armour doesn't count). For soft tissue locations, like eyes, I'd probably not apply natural armour either.
So, I guess basically the house rules would really just be guidelines and a "it's down to MC discretion what a location's size is"
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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wotmaniac
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Post by wotmaniac » Mon May 13, 2013 6:08 am

> Prak_Anima wrote:For soft tissue locations, like eyes, I'd probably not apply natural armour either.

Well ... large, thick-skinned creatures still have big, heavy eyelids.
Just sayin'.
besides, then you go down the road of the overly-fiddly stuff in 2e:

> 2e AD&D MM wrote: The landshark has two vulnerable areas: the shell under its crest is only AC 6 (but it is only raised during intense combat), and the region of the bulette's eyes is AC 4, but this is a small oval area about 8 inches across.

I remember stuff like this really slowing things down.
I'm not sure it's worth the trade-off.
*WARNING*: I say "fuck" a lot.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon May 13, 2013 6:11 am

Basically I'm just saying that if someone aim's at a dragon's eye, or into it's mouth, I'd just ignore natural armour or at least cut in half. The possibility of the think blinking before the arrow hits is not important enough for me to track.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Post by tussock » Mon May 13, 2013 7:23 am

D&D combat is abstract. The Dragon's AC, including it's Natural armour value, has to include the difficulty of hitting it's soft spots. Has to be, otherwise you take -8 to get +10 every single time and no one does anything but eye shots with bonus blinding effect. Like GURPS with high skill shooters. Which isn't good for anyone. If you want dragons to be 2 points easier to hit and go blind when attacked, at least do it deliberately.
Now, the blinding bit, that at least has some tactical potential. Especially if it modifies the saves vs Glitterdust or whatever other subsystem. But we know how that resolves too, having seen multiple characters stacking fear effects and auto-winning almost everything.
Oddly enough, chartmaster works pretty well for complex effects from melee attacks. They just happen at random if you roll well enough. Any of them, because your character is trying whatever looks best at the moment. Shame about the charts, really.
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Post by OgreBattle » Sun May 19, 2013 4:43 am

How about critical hit= you hit the thing in a spot that really hurts or debilitates it
Trade critical hit bonus damage for status effects (like Rogue sneak attacking)
Have a "power attack" type ability that lets you trade to-hit for increasing your crit range
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ishy
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Post by ishy » Mon May 20, 2013 11:44 am

> ...You Lost Me wrote:On-topic: I think called shots should just be put in on a case-by-case basis, like the Beholder's eye needs an entry about how it can be stabbed out, that way you don't need to write something for every limb a person has.

Like sunder for a hydra?

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Post by CCarter » Mon May 20, 2013 11:56 am

Called shots in 2nd edition weren't too bad: -4 to hit in exchange for some special effect like an arm or leg being disabled, if damage was sufficiently high (a location being numbed for a few rounds required damage of 25% of a target's hit points). The penalty is high enough that a character wouldn't do it too often, but its there if it becomes strategically useful i.e. shooting someone in the leg as they try and run away.
Comparatively 4E has a number of specific manuevers that are 'locationesque' - like the ranger power for slowing people down by shooting them in the legs (maybe) - but all the complexity is front-loaded, can't be attempted without the specific power, and doesn't really give results that necessarily make any sense (you can still slow gelatinous cubes).
Messier critical hits (going for the eye/heart/neck etc.) usually go badly in D&D since even at -8 or worse it may well be worth attempting it every round instead of gradually removing hit points. If a system incorporates an active/passive defense rule it can work however - only a badass can usually attempt called shots then without some special circumstance (such as the target being completely surprised), since for weaker characters the opponent can abort to a parry and likely win the opposed check due to the attack roll penalties on the shot.
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Post by PhoneLobster » Mon May 20, 2013 12:19 pm

If you for instance wanted to do that for 3.x D&D... do it the way the system handles any status effect or death effect.
An ability on a uses per day schedule that applies an injury themed status effect (possibly death or KO) and has a saving throw to mitigate or prevent it.
3.x has spells that do that. To the limited degree that 3.x works they work fine. So... just have your fighter classes do well... that.
The biggest problems called shot house rules in D&D editions have is being tacked on bullshit. Avoid that, mimic existing mechanics that achieve very similar ends already.
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