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maglag
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Post by maglag » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:33 pm

> nockermensch wrote:

> > Maj wrote:

> > > maglag wrote:Kids locked up by a judge because they refused to have lunch with their father.
> > > And they'll stay behind bars until they're 18. And neither of the parents can even visit them now.

> > More detail on that.

> What a sad train-wreck. But what seems more jarring in all this is the judge jailing the kids. I can't see the reasoning for that.

It's simple:
1-The judge is licking the father's boots, painting him as a flawless man.
2-The father knows the children don't like him, thus even if the judge handed the custody to him, they would probably run away at first chance.
3-The father thus asks the boot-licking judge to put the children in jail because he's a jerk and if he can't have the children like him, then he'll make sure the children don't get to like no one. Not the mother, not each other.
EDIT:Indeed, the children are only to be released when they recognize their father as the one true god-emperor.
Last edited by maglag on Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Occluded Sun
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Post by Occluded Sun » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:51 pm

> nockermensch wrote:But what seems more jarring in all this is the judge jailing the kids. I can't see the reasoning for that.

Presumably the reasoning is that the mother is turning them against the father - so isolating them from the mother, by sending them to juvie, is the solution.
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maglag
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Post by maglag » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:07 pm

> Occluded Sun wrote:

> > nockermensch wrote:But what seems more jarring in all this is the judge jailing the kids. I can't see the reasoning for that.

> Presumably the reasoning is that the mother is turning them against the father - so isolating them from the mother, by sending them to juvie, is the solution.

They're also being kept away from each other.
And they have no other family? Is there no foster care? Any place besides the jail filled with kids that commited crimes?
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:36 pm

> maglag wrote:

> > nockermensch wrote:

> > > Maj wrote:
> > > More detail on that.

> > What a sad train-wreck. But what seems more jarring in all this is the judge jailing the kids. I can't see the reasoning for that.

> It's simple:
> 1-The judge is licking the father's boots, painting him as a flawless man.
> 2-The father knows the children don't like him, thus even if the judge handed the custody to him, they would probably run away at first chance.
> 3-The father thus asks the boot-licking judge to put the children in jail because he's a jerk and if he can't have the children like him, then he'll make sure the children don't get to like no one. Not the mother, not each other.
> EDIT:Indeed, the children are only to be released when they recognize their father as the one true god-emperor.

It's simpler than that, really. Contempt of court is a crime. Imprisonment until performance is a standard remedy for Contempt. The only thing they have to do to get out is obey the court order.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:58 pm

EDIT: Hyzmarca, I think the problem is that maglag rejects the concept of authority, so of course disobeying lawful authority doesn't justify coercive action, because anything that makes authority enforceable is bad.

> nockermensch wrote:

> > Maj wrote:

> > > maglag wrote:Kids locked up by a judge because they refused to have lunch with their father.
> > > And they'll stay behind bars until they're 18. And neither of the parents can even visit them now.

> > More detail on that.

> What a sad train-wreck. But what seems more jarring in all this is the judge jailing the kids. I can't see the reasoning for that.

It is pretty rare, all things considered, although, I practice in NJ/PA not Michigan, so maybe they do it differently there. But if the children refuse to see their father as required by the Court, there isn't anything legally preventing you from using coercive custody if you think it will work. But for obvious reasons, very rarely do judges find that necessary.
I wonder if Mr Tswhatever is so good, why doesn't the judge just give him physical custody and mandate reunification therapy.
Last edited by Kaelik on Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:37 pm

Yeah, this situation doesn't make a lot of sense. If someone takes the kids and flees the country, then at least one parent clearly cannot be trusted having unsupervised visits with the children - anyone's guess which. But the judge seems very enthusiastic about the father being a swell dude while not at all coming down on the mother for fleeing with the kids.
I'm guessing there's a decent helping of bullshit in both stories and this was a... mutually hostile separation that the courts have been left to sort through.
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maglag
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Post by maglag » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:06 pm

> hyzmarca wrote:

> > maglag wrote:

> > > nockermensch wrote: What a sad train-wreck. But what seems more jarring in all this is the judge jailing the kids. I can't see the reasoning for that.

> > It's simple:
> > 1-The judge is licking the father's boots, painting him as a flawless man.
> > 2-The father knows the children don't like him, thus even if the judge handed the custody to him, they would probably run away at first chance.
> > 3-The father thus asks the boot-licking judge to put the children in jail because he's a jerk and if he can't have the children like him, then he'll make sure the children don't get to like no one. Not the mother, not each other.
> > EDIT:Indeed, the children are only to be released when they recognize their father as the one true god-emperor.

> It's simpler than that, really. Contempt of court is a crime. Imprisonment until performance is a standard remedy for Contempt. The only thing they have to do to get out is obey the court order.

Kinda hard for the kids to obey that order, since the father ran away to another country just after the court session. Again. Despite Kaelik's propaganda, they were put in a no-win scenario where prison is the only "lawful" path they were offered.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:08 pm

> maglag wrote:Kinda hard for the kids to obey that order, since the father ran away to another country just after the court session. Again. Despite Kaelik's propaganda, they were put in a no-win scenario where prison is the only "lawful" path they were offered.

My "propaganda" that it is really rare and should only be done if the judge thinks it is the best way to gain cooperation?
Or just the part where you feel butthurt because you personally are 2/3rds of a filthy libertarian.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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fbmf
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Post by fbmf » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:05 am

> Kaelik wrote:

> > maglag wrote:Kinda hard for the kids to obey that order, since the father ran away to another country just after the court session. Again. Despite Kaelik's propaganda, they were put in a no-win scenario where prison is the only "lawful" path they were offered.

> My "propaganda" that it is really rare and should only be done if the judge thinks it is the best way to gain cooperation?
> Or just the part where you feel butthurt because you personally are 2/3rds of a filthy libertarian.

Okay, I'll bite: what's his redeeming 33%?
Game On,
fbmf
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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:17 am

> maglag wrote:Kinda hard for the kids to obey that order, since the father ran away to another country just after the court session. Again.

There are these things called jobs. If you don't turn up for them, you lose them. It is widely considered a positive when parents have them, because children cannot subsist solely on love, rainbows, and unicorns. And while reliable information on this case is almost impossible to come by (media coverage seems to mostly boil down to a he-said-she-said), it is apparently the case that the mother is the one who took their children from their shared home in Israel and fled across the globe to file for divorce in the United States.
I have no idea whether Ms. Tsimhomi is attempting to poison her children against their father or if Mr. Tsimhomi is genuinely an abusive, dangerous man. One of the two parents is full of shit, and there simply isn't enough information for me to make a comfortable guess. But blaming the father because his wife took their children and brought them to the United States without his consent in order to file for divorce and custody in a court five thousand miles away from her former home and his current job is stupid and callous. We don't all have the resources or opportunities to snap our fingers, pick up our entire lives, and drop them somewhere else, and Mr. Tsimhomi is not the one who chose the venue - Ms. Tsimhomi did that when she took the children to another country without telling their father.
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TiaC
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Post by TiaC » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:24 am

> fbmf wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote:

> > > maglag wrote:Kinda hard for the kids to obey that order, since the father ran away to another country just after the court session. Again. Despite Kaelik's propaganda, they were put in a no-win scenario where prison is the only "lawful" path they were offered.

> > My "propaganda" that it is really rare and should only be done if the judge thinks it is the best way to gain cooperation?
> > Or just the part where you feel butthurt because you personally are 2/3rds of a filthy libertarian.

> Okay, I'll bite: what's his redeeming 33%?
> Game On,
> fbmf

Personal hygiene perhaps? He's a mainly clean libertarian?
The part of this case that feels weird is that custody laws generally have the child's well-being as their intent. Since it's really hard to argue that Juvie is good for a child, imprisoning the child in a custody case seems to run counter to the intent of the law.
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Occluded Sun
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Post by Occluded Sun » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:42 am

> maglag wrote:They're also being kept away from each other.
> And they have no other family? Is there no foster care? Any place besides the jail filled with kids that commited crimes?

Judges in America are too powerful. They can order someone to be held in jail indefinitely without recourse. Other judges are notoriously unwilling to intervene - rather like doctors, actually. No one is willing to stand up and say their traditional powers are wrong.
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maglag
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Post by maglag » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:48 am

Yeah, about that...
The judge just caved in to the public pressure and the kids are going free!
Power to the people. A single person is not the law.
Last edited by maglag on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:18 am

> Occluded Sun wrote:

> > maglag wrote:They're also being kept away from each other.
> > And they have no other family? Is there no foster care? Any place besides the jail filled with kids that commited crimes?

> Judges in America are too powerful. They can order someone to be held in jail indefinitely without recourse. Other judges are notoriously unwilling to intervene - rather like doctors, actually. No one is willing to stand up and say their traditional powers are wrong.

Yes, Judges can totally just order someone to held in jail indefinitely, and all you have to do, is patently and repeatedly refuse to follow the law. And still, even when you refuse to follow the law, the Judge will almost always try all sorts of other enforcement efforts first. And still, indefinitely is not forever, it is indefinitely, because if you prove that no amount of jail time with coerce you into following the law, you have to be released.
And at any point, if you want to get out of jail, all you have to do is start following the actual law.

> maglag wrote:Yeah, about that...
> The judge just caved in to the public pressure and the kids are going free!
> Power to the people. A single person is not the law.

False! It turns out one person is the law, that one person being the mother who alienated the kids according to the ruling of a judge who actually is a fixture of the law, and who could have appealed that decision to other actual law people if it was an issue. But instead, basically lied up a storm in the media (regardless of what the actual facts are in this case, the chance that both parties aren't lying in every public statement is basically nill) so that now the Judge feels compelled to allow her to dictate the law.
Don't celebrate the "victory" that the Court has given up any hope of ever having the children have two parents because the mother has proved that she will make it too much work.
The Judge is empowered to make decisions about children's custody, those decisions can be appealed. Your libertarian belief that the mother and children should not have to follow the orders of the Court is fucking stupid as shit.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:50 pm

The ability of a person to defy the lawful orders of a government official is not "power to the people" any more than it was when Clive Bundy and his militia rallied to successfully avoid compensating the government for the grazing he had been doing on public land. It is, in fact, the exact opposite of that.
But that's rather moot, because the children are not being released. They are, at both parents' request, being transferred from the scary, scary juvenile detention center (where they were playing with other children, having barbeques, going on hikes, and receiving professional therapy) to a Jewish summer camp (which will probably be very similar sans the therapy). Turns out they were never actually being kept with problem children or serious criminal offenders, and it turns out they are still by court order to be kept out of their mother's custody until they acquiesce to the court's demands. But the name over the door has changed, so that's something.
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:40 pm

> maglag wrote:

> > hyzmarca wrote:

> > > maglag wrote:
> > > It's simple:
> > > 1-The judge is licking the father's boots, painting him as a flawless man.
> > > 2-The father knows the children don't like him, thus even if the judge handed the custody to him, they would probably run away at first chance.
> > > 3-The father thus asks the boot-licking judge to put the children in jail because he's a jerk and if he can't have the children like him, then he'll make sure the children don't get to like no one. Not the mother, not each other.
> > > EDIT:Indeed, the children are only to be released when they recognize their father as the one true god-emperor.

> > It's simpler than that, really. Contempt of court is a crime. Imprisonment until performance is a standard remedy for Contempt. The only thing they have to do to get out is obey the court order.

> Kinda hard for the kids to obey that order, since the father ran away to another country just after the court session. Again. Despite Kaelik's propaganda, they were put in a no-win scenario where prison is the only "lawful" path they were offered.

That's the impossibility defense. "I tried but I can't." It's perfectly valid. However, it requires that they actually try, and not simply refuse. And from evidence, they simply refused. If they agreed and he failed to show up, that's on him, he'd be in Contempt.
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:42 am

Guys who are sucking at FPS video games are douchebags to women.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:10 am

It makes sense, their feelings are hurt so they try to make up for it by reminding everything that they have a penis and women do not.
About the judge thing: I don't know enough about family law to make any comment on the judge's decision, but he does seem like a real dick from those articles. Doesn't make him wrong, but I wouldn't invite him over for any barbecues...
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:14 pm

> Maj wrote:Guys who are sucking at FPS video games are douchebags to women.

Which is interesting to me--most of the douchebag players I've seen in action, they're really good and have their head up their asses because of this and the hostility comes when someone who does things differently, to any kind of good effect, shows up.
A buddy does confirm that a lot of the worst LoL players are the most hostile ones, though.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:45 pm

> Maxus wrote:

> > Maj wrote:Guys who are sucking at FPS video games are douchebags to women.

> Which is interesting to me--most of the douchebag players I've seen in action, they're really good and have their head up their asses because of this and the hostility comes when someone who does things differently, to any kind of good effect, shows up.

This is completely compatible with Maj's study. People of all stripes are hostile when they are losing, and less hostile when winning. But if you are Diamond I or Bronze V you are supposed to be playing against people of approximately the same skill, so if you play 10 games you should lose a bunch of them and rage.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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maglag
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Post by maglag » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:14 pm

> Kaelik wrote:

> > Maxus wrote:

> > > Maj wrote:Guys who are sucking at FPS video games are douchebags to women.

> > Which is interesting to me--most of the douchebag players I've seen in action, they're really good and have their head up their asses because of this and the hostility comes when someone who does things differently, to any kind of good effect, shows up.

> This is completely compatible with Maj's study. People of all stripes are hostile when they are losing, and less hostile when winning.

Genghis Khan and his mongol hordes would like a word with you. They were very, very, very hostile despite having pretty much the best winning streak ever. While the one who lost become a lot less hostile ( because they were dead, or because they completely surrendered). Actually most military commanders will agree that when you're winning, it's a sign to be more hostile.
Perhaps you meant "foul mood" instead of "agressive"? Because then yes most people get in bad humor when they lose.
Last edited by maglag on Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:31 pm

> maglag wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote:

> > > Maxus wrote:
> > > Which is interesting to me--most of the douchebag players I've seen in action, they're really good and have their head up their asses because of this and the hostility comes when someone who does things differently, to any kind of good effect, shows up.

> > This is completely compatible with Maj's study. People of all stripes are hostile when they are losing, and less hostile when winning.

> Genghis Khan and his mongol hordes would like a word with you. They were very, very, very hostile despite having pretty much the best winning streak ever. While the one who lost become a lot less hostile ( because they were dead, or because they completely surrendered). Actually most military commanders will agree that when you're winning, it's a sign to be more hostile.
> Perhaps you meant "foul mood" instead of "agressive"? Because then yes most people get in bad humor when they lose.

Perhaps you can't read at all? Since I never said aggressive at any point. I said fucking hostile. And all fucking armies are hostile winning or losing, and equally fucking hostile.
We are talking about people raging at their teammates when they are losing. This is not fucking rocket science, all you need to do is learn how to read.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Orion
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Post by Orion » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:32 am

> Maj wrote:Guys who are sucking at FPS video games are douchebags to women.

I wish they had played more than 163 games.
NEW STUFF
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:52 am

I wish they had error bars. That's what makes me think it's untrustworthy.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:28 am

Some nerds analyzed the buying power of $100 in each state and made this map-
Apparently Mississippi gives you the best buying power, but Oregon, the place I literally dream of returning some day, is at least better than god-forsaken California, which has the fifth lowest buying power.

> Here are the five states where $100 is worth the most:
> Mississippi – $115.21
> Arkansas – $114.29
> South Dakota – $114.21
> Alabama – $114.03
> West Virginia – $113.12
> And here are the four states and one district where $100 is worth the least:
> Washington, D.C. – $84.96
> Hawaii – $86.06
> New York – $86.73
> New Jersey – $87.34
> California – $89.05

Follow the link for the map in four larger sections that are easier to read.
Last edited by Prak on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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