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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Thu May 10, 2007 1:02 pm

Well, I've had no real problems with Penance Stare, since it's really a melee attack.
you should however define if it's a full, standard, move, swift, immediate or free action however.
Really, the ability works like this:
1. Hell Rider approaches enemy.
2. Hell Rider either waits or uses penance stare (not sure how long it takes to work, so w/e)
3. Enemy makes will save (10 + 1/2 Char lvl + Cha Mod; 10 + 3 + 4 = DC 17 is reasonable enough at lvl 6)
4. Enemy takes no damage, or takes enough damage to negate a lot of their HP from Hit Dice (since the target takes 1dX per HD that the target has).
Basically the character has an SoD effect that has a range of "melee reach."
Which is good, b/c the only other 'damage' ability that this class has deals the character 1 point of con damage.
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Prak
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Prak » Thu May 10, 2007 5:55 pm

ok, so it should be fine as affecting any creature with a soul, regardless of alignment? k... it should probably take a number of rounds equal to the target's HD, or until the target drops from damage(does one die each round, I guess) which ever comes first.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Catharz
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Catharz » Thu May 10, 2007 8:58 pm

> Prak_Anima at [unixtime wrote:1178819701[/unixtime]]ok, so it should be fine as affecting any creature with a soul, regardless of alignment? k... it should probably take a number of rounds equal to the target's HD, or until the target drops from damage(does one die each round, I guess) which ever comes first.

You mean it should give a negative level every round?
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Brobdingnagian
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Brobdingnagian » Fri May 11, 2007 1:24 am

Nah. Full-round action, doesn't provoke AoO's, and instantaneous.
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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Fri May 11, 2007 3:33 am

Hmm...
The Hell Rider deals 1 Negative level per class level with penance stare; DC 10 + 1/2 character level + cha mod for half, rounding down, 0 neg levels if the hell rider is lvl 1.
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Prak
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Prak » Fri May 11, 2007 5:38 pm

that actually looks really good...
but I'm thinking maybe we should make it wis based... the ranger(the class this kinda intended for) already has to focus on Str, Dex, and Wis.. less str than dex, but still...
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Fri May 11, 2007 10:12 pm

Nah, he's being all impressive and scary, right?
Definately Cha based.
If it was Wis based, the mechanic would be different.
The Hell Rider makes a 1/2 Char lvl (or 1/2 Sense Motive Ranks) + Wis versus the a DC of 10 + 1/2 target's HD + Target's cha.
If he succeeds, he deals his full neg lvls, if he fails, he deals half.
In this method the Hell Rider is finding out what the target has done and then telling them about it.
In the "monster makes will save vs 10 + 1/2 HR char lvls + HR's Cha mod" the method is that the Hell Rider is simply putting fear into them.
-----------
That or you could simply let them cast enervation as a standard action, DC = 10 + 1/2 char lvl + Wis, Cha or Int.
You should put in something at 1st lvl stating that all Hell Riders come in three types, Scheming, Cunning or Impressive.
Now, there's no precedent for doing this, but you want the guy who enters to not worry about MAD so much and most special abilities are Cha-based; while some guys who will enter aren't cha-based builds.
So w/e, we add somthing new.
Schemers use Int for their penance stare.
Gain a +3 to int based skill checks. Getting a +1 at lvl 1, +2 at lvl 3 and +3 at lvl 5.
Cunning ones use Wis.
Gain a +3 to wis based skill checks. Getting a +1 at lvl 1, +2 at lvl 3 and +3 at lvl 5.
Impressive ones use Cha.
Gain a +3 to cha based skill checks. Getting a +1 at lvl 1, +2 at lvl 3 and +3 at lvl 5.
You could be more specific, but in this method you allow a stealth buff, as a Ranger who wants to enter can be Cunning; while a Paladin who wants to enter can be Impressive. While a Fighter could be a Schemer.
Call the ability
Hell Rider Persona: All Hell Riders come in one of three general types; scheming, cunning or impressive. Each of these types is linked to the highest mental stat that the Hell Rider has when not affected by magic.
Scheming Hell Riders are those whose highest mental stat is Intelligence; Cunning Hell Riders are those whose highest mental stat is Wisdom; Impressive are those whose highest mental stat is Charisma.
As the Hell Rider improves their personas become more defined.
At first level the Hell Rider gets a +1 bonus to all skill checks related to his persona type. This bonus increases to +2 at lvl three and +3 at level five.
Penance Stare (Su): The Hell Rider can cast Enervation at will as a touch attack.
Now, Enervation doesn't grant a save, but it also usually has a range of 25 + 5/2 caster levels; if we want to give a save, we can do the following:
This Enervation effect does allow for a Will save to reduce the negative levels taken by half. The save DC of this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the Hell Rider's Character Levels + The stat modifer linked to the Hell Rider's Persona (Scheming, Cunning, Impressive).
-------
Basically, the HR makes a touch attack, rolls a d4 to see the number of negative levels dealt and then the target makes a save.
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Brobdingnagian
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Brobdingnagian » Sat May 12, 2007 1:19 am

Hmm...
You should make the bonus granted by the Persona type apply to the DC of Penance Stare as well, then.
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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Sat May 12, 2007 3:18 pm

> Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1178932788[/unixtime]]Hmm...
> You should make the bonus granted by the Persona type apply to the DC of Penance Stare as well, then.

An hour and twenty minutes before you posted this, my post contained:

> This Enervation effect does allow for a Will save to reduce the negative levels taken by half. The save DC of this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the Hell Rider's Character Levels + The stat modifer linked to the Hell Rider's Persona (Scheming, Cunning, Impressive).

So, that was why I included the idea of a persona. To allow a wis based Hell Rider.
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While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
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Brobdingnagian
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Brobdingnagian » Sat May 12, 2007 9:18 pm

No, I mean, the +1 to +3 gained through levels of Hell Rider due to the persona type. Kind of like spell focus for your one cool thing.
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Prak
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Prak » Sat May 12, 2007 10:53 pm

actually, I really like the persona thing, and enervation could work just fine.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Sun May 13, 2007 2:33 am

> Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1179004726[/unixtime]]No, I mean, the +1 to +3 gained through levels of Hell Rider due to the persona type. Kind of like spell focus for your one cool thing.

No, b/c that's the equivalent of saying: Your DC is 11, then 12, then 13
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
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Catharz
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Catharz » Sun May 13, 2007 3:47 am

> Judging__Eagle at [unixtime wrote:1179023597[/unixtime]]

> > Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1179004726[/unixtime]]No, I mean, the +1 to +3 gained through levels of Hell Rider due to the persona type. Kind of like spell focus for your one cool thing.

> No, b/c that's the equivalent of saying: Your DC is 11, then 12, then 13

I think it's more like saying that your DCs are 10 +1/2 HD +ability mod +1, 2, or 3.
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Brobdingnagian
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Brobdingnagian » Sun May 13, 2007 6:47 am

I reiterate, it functions in a similar manner to Spell Focus, and I really don't see it as game-breaking. In all honesty, the class itself seems slightly underpowered (though not so much as to be a balance issue), so it really wouldn't hurt to give it a little more.
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Prak
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Prak » Mon May 14, 2007 6:53 pm

what would make it balanced?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Tue May 15, 2007 2:32 pm

Meh, just give it straight Enervation at will, with a range of touch, no save.
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While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
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Prak
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Prak » Tue May 15, 2007 4:47 pm

that works I suppose, take care of flavour aspects with fluff text.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:36 pm

I'm gonna write up a pally/hell-rider as an NPC for my Planar Raiders game.
Yeah... I just watched Ghost Rider this monday. Made me want to write up an NPC with that ability set.
The hilarious thing is that I helped with this class w/out watching the movie. I read a couple of the comics, so that helped a bit with my advice.
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While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
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Prak
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Prak » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:18 pm

well let us know it works out
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Prak
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### Re: Hell Rider

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Post by Prak » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 am

Giving this a revisit, I'm not sure if Frank and K had done the Tome of Fiends before I wrote this, so I want to try using those rules for it, might work a bit better.
Hell Rider
Once in a while, Mephistopheles will make a faustian pact with a mortal. In this pact the mortal is turned into a Hell Rider, a sort of Infernal bounty hunter wielding pure Hellfire. In return, the mortal will get whatever it is mortal's want, money, love, the life of a love one saved from some horrible disease, or some other thing that could just as easily be obtained with the proper spell from a cleric or wizard.
Requirements
skills: Ride or Drive 9r, Kn (the Planes) 6r
Base Ref Save: +4
Special: Must make a pact with a devil (of no less rank than an Imp) to be their bounty hunter.
Game Info
HD: d8
Good Ref
Good BAB
Skills(6+int): Bluff, Control Shape, Diplomacy, [Drive], Handle Animal, Intimidate, Kn. Arcana, Kn. Religion, Kn. the Planes, Move Silently, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Lv Special
1st The Contract, Hell Rider Persona, Alternate Form, Hell's Mount, Penance Stare, Hellfire Sphere (Basic)
2nd Hellfire Infusion
3rd Hellfire Sphere (Advanced)
4th The Long Ride
5th Hellfire Sphere (Expert)
Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: The Hell Rider gains proficiency in all chain weapons, longsword, and lances. He also gains proficiency in leather, studded leather and brigandine armour(Oriental Adventures).
The Contract: Once a year, the Hell Rider must track down a bounty for his fiendish patron. In addition to capture of a person, this bounty can take many other forms. It can be assassination, recovery of an item, destruction of an item to keep it from enemies, or any single service, really. Usually this service is one that requires the Hell Rider's personal abilities, and is seldom (but occasionally) frivolous, as the patron can only do this once per year.
This ability functions as the feat Evil Brand at all times, and while pursuing a bounty, no devil of lesser rank than the Hell Rider's master may interfere with the task.
Hell Rider Persona: Each Hell Rider has a persona, influenced by their mundane personality and mental abilities.
Hell Riders whose highest mental stat is Intelligence are known as Schemers.
Hell Riders whose highest mental stat is Wisdom are known as Cunning.
Hell Riders whose highest mental stat is Charisma are known as Impressive.
A Hell Rider gains a +1 bonus to all skills dependent on the ability score of his Persona and the DC of his Penance Stare, and the base DC of his Penance Stare is based on the ability score of his Persona. This bonus becomes +2 at third level, and +3 at fifth.
Alternate Form (Ex): At night, the Hell Rider is affected by a terrifying transformation into an image of hellish death. The skin of his head and hands burns away to reveal bone wreathed in hellfire, and his clothes take on a more menacing appearance(metal studs become spikes, the clothing becomes darker, etc.). This transformation has no mechanical effect, except to give studded leather armour spikes (happy birthday). In this form, the Hell Rider gains profane bonuses of +6 str, and +4 con, a deflection bonus to his armour class equal to 1/4 his character level, and immunity to fire and hellfire. He also gains a hellfire aura that functions as the burn ability of the fire elemental, except that it deals hellfire damage rather than fire damage. The Hell Rider cannot maintain this alternate form in direct sunlight, and reverts to his normal form at daybreak. He may still assume the form in shadow (or otherwise outside of direct sunlight) during the day with a successful Control Shape check (DC 20). Control Shape can also affect this ability in all ways as it does the lycanthrope ability of the same name, treat this form as an 'animal' form, and use the delineation of night and day rather than moon phase.
Hell's Mount (Ex): Any vehicle piloted by or mount rode by a Hell's Rider is possessed by a diabolical steed spirit that is loyal to that Hell Rider. Once possessed, it is affected by a transformation similar to the Hell Rider's alternate form, it is left skeletal and wreathed in hellfire. This aura of hellfire gives the steed the fire and hellfire immunity and hellfire burn ability of the Hell Rider's alternate form. The spirit can animate objects it possesses, and it has an intelligence score of 3. It can be trained with Handle Animal as if it were a magical beast, but already knows the command "heel". The vehicle or mount can travel indefinitely without need for rest, food/fuel, or healing/repair so long as it is taking at least a double move action, and does not suffer non-lethal damage from extended hustling, running or forced march. The Hell's Mount can travel upon any surface at normal speed, at any angle(Air is not a surface, but water is, as are clouds). The mount and Hell Rider share an empathic link. Whether possessing a creature or object, the spirit has HD equal to it's master's level-2, the Outsider (Evil, Fire, Lawful) type, and strength equal to the creature's plus the master's class level (base 20 if an object). While possessing an object, it gains 5 bonus hardness(min 10) and 15 bonus hp per master class level, both types of mount gain an additional 50% speed per master class level. The Hell's Mount of a 3rd level Hell Rider has spell resistance as the special mount of a paladin of the master's character level, and a fifth level Hell Rider's Hell's Mount can command devils.
Penance Stare (Su): You can, at will, as a full round action gaze into a person's eyes, and reflect in your own their every sin and misdeed, while they are compelled to simply stare and watch as the events replay and they feel all the pain they've ever caused amplified ten fold. The target is affected as if by the spell Enervation, The target gets a save (DC = 10 + 1/2 Char lvl + Persona Stat + Persona Bonus) to only take half damage. Neutral targets take a -4 penalty this save, and evil characters take a -6. The target always takes 1 negative level, this single neg lvl is not a spell effect but an effect of Penance Stare, and all negative levels caused by the enervation effect are in addition to this one. Penance Stare is a gaze attack but with a range of touch (touch is not actually required, but the target must be within your reach). Perversely, this effect heals Undead (just as Enervation does), possibly because they are so fueled by the pain and suffering they inflict.
Hellfire Infusion (Su): As a move action, you may wreath a weapon in hellflame. In this state, the weapon does an extra 1d6 points of damage per three character levels, minimum one. All damage dealt by the weapon is Hellfire damage. Hellfire damage is identical to fire damage except that it bypasses fire immunity.
This same ability can be used on damaging spells with the following changes: Instead of a move action, the spell's casting time is increased by one step, from swift to standard, from standard to one full round, from a full round to one minute, from one minute to ten minutes, and from ten minutes to a ritual lasting one hour; Instead of dealing additional damage, the spell's damage bypasses fire immunity, effectively becoming hellfire damage. Finally, the spell's level is increased by the Hell Rider's class level for purposes of the DC, and his class level increases his caster level for that casting of the spell. A weapon created by a spell or other magical effect is treated as a normal weapon for the purposes of this ability.
The Long Ride(Ex.): A Hell Rider traveling on his Hell's Mount has no need to eat, drink, or sleep. This ability functions even in direct sunlight so long as the journey began in shadow or at night.
Hellfire Sphere
Granted Ability: Fire damage from your spell like abilities overcome fire immunity but not resistance.
1st: Produce Flame
3rd: Scorching Ray
5th: Burning Blood (Drac.)(deals fire damage, no need for a breath weapon, functions in alternate form with no problem)
7th: Wall of Fire
9th: Charnel Fire (BoVD)
11th: Firestride Exhalation (DrMg)
13th: Fire Storm
15th: Glorious Master of the Elements (DrMg) (Fire only)
17th: Incendiary Cloud
19th: Storm of Vengeance (All elemental damage is Fire)
right, so how's this version look?
Last edited by Prak on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Leress
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Post by Leress » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:16 am

I think it needs a picture.
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:54 am

I think it needs a good picture (Sorry, Leress, that one's just too retro-cheesy and not enough cool)
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:51 am

Penance Stare feels absurdly good for a level 5-ish ability. If successful, you can give someone of your CR more negative levels than they have hit dice with a standard action. It also can be used at range (assuming that targeting works like Enervation), has a special bonus to DC, and is guaranteed to give one negative level even if you miss.
This comes on top of a class that gets a special mount, meaning that every Hell Rider is encouraged to kite enemies until they succumb to the deluge of mixed hard and impossible to resist negative levels.
I'd put Penance stare further towards the end of the class and put in more limitations. Hellfire Infusion on spells for DC boosts feels exploitable, but I don't have a spell directory in front of me right now.
Last edited by Avoraciopoctules on Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:26 am

Ok, changed a few things:
1. Made the class a bit tougher to get into, and at a higher level, (Ride/Drive was upped to 9r, added Kn the Planes 6r)
2. Specified action type for Penance Stare, specified range, since it's different, switched from extra damage for non-good to a harder save.
3. Added a picture.
Now Penance stare is a seventh level attack, at the level a wizard gets it, but I'll admit it's still insanely good to have it at will, might stagger uses per day out. It also, while still capable of killing someone by it's self, takes more rounds, and it's not kiteable. So it might need some more work, but I'd like to keep it at first class level.
Edit:
Also changed the Contracted by Hell ability to The Contract, same flavour thing, but now the mechanics are a feat and a non-interference thing when pursuing a bounty. Also scaled back Hellfire to do what wotc has it do, overcome fire immunity but not resistance.
Last edited by Prak on Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:41 pm

Where can I find Evil Brand?
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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