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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:16 pm

They taught us First Aid in elementary school. I told my dad (who was an EMT at the time) what they taught us, and he hit the roof.
It seems that some of the things they told us was worse than simply not doing anything at all (Like if you can't stop the bleeding in 2 minutes, apply a tourniquet on the limb as close to the torso as possible.) And they advocated Syrup of Ipecac as a cure-all.
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The Lunatic Fringe
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Post by The Lunatic Fringe » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:19 pm

> Starmaker wrote:When I asked her how come anarchy isn't the ultimate freedom, she replied, "Why can't you understand? Anarchy is the... Ultimate Unfreedom!"

This is pretty much true. Anarchy is not a sustainable state of being for a society with decent population concentration.
Basically, any time that people are in a place, they create social organization of some sort. Sometimes this is like the Zomia, and the society is highly egalitarian, and some times the organization follows the "Deep South" model and it...isn't. Mostly the latter.
So, when you argue for anarchy, you are arguing for a system that will morph - likely within your lifetime - into something else. My money is on the Deep South. While anarchy is nominally the 'ultimate freedom' it is also nonfunctional, leading to the 'ultimate unfreedom'.
or maybe you mean something else by anarchy. A Bakunin fan or something. Whatever.
EDIT: Effective research methods, of the sort that are used by professional researchers, should be a major focus of middle school. This means 'how to use a library', 'how to use research databases', 'how to us the internet', 'how to conduct an interview', and 'how to set up a survey or experiment'. No-one should ever come to the conclusion that there is no available information on a topic unless there really is no available information on that topic.
Last edited by The Lunatic Fringe on Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lich-Loved
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Post by Lich-Loved » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:19 pm

Damn it all Count, that link made me laugh so hard I blew coke out of my nose and into my keyboard.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:52 pm

> Starmaker wrote:Fomenko's bullshit

Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:21 pm

Until I heard the arguments of the teabaggers and the far-right christians fighting against health care and gay rights... I didn't really understand that bit of wisdom. I saw patterns in history, sure, but in hindsight it was easier to determine them than in foresight. But then these idiots used the exact same tactics and arguments that were used and thrown away in the past.
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K
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Post by K » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:11 pm

I once took a Sociology class called American and Americans that culminated in me being forced to write a 7-page paper on why I am a racist.
I'm not a racist. I am someone who is willing to lie to get his "E" requirement out of the way.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:19 pm

> Kaelik wrote:But Sociology is by a large proportion, the most home to random gender theory idiots who want to make every damn thing about how white people are inherently inferior, and men are inherently violent assholes, and minorties and women are naturally super nice all the time, and can only become mean when corrupted by the white man, ect.

Interesting posit. Can we come back to how Kaelik hates minorities and women? It is a fascinating projection to change the majority of male professors and the majority of conservative gender-bias affirming studies into a place where the white man is to be pitied.
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Starmaker
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Post by Starmaker » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:45 pm

> The Lunatic Fringe wrote:

> > Starmaker wrote:When I asked her how come anarchy isn't the ultimate freedom, she replied, "Why can't you understand? Anarchy is the... Ultimate Unfreedom!"

> This is pretty much true. Anarchy is not a sustainable state of being for a society with decent population concentration.
> So, when you argue for anarchy, you are arguing for a system that will morph - likely within your lifetime - into something else. My money is on the Deep South. While anarchy is nominally the 'ultimate freedom' it is also nonfunctional, leading to the 'ultimate unfreedom'.

> [url=http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=102113#102113 wrote:FrankTrollman[/url]]Person A defends their freedom to burn coal. Person B defends their freedom to breathe clean air. Fucking worthless argument that. Cannot be solved from first principals. At least, not if you think "freedom" is a first principal. Honestly, it's not.

I wasn't arguing in favor of anarchy. It's just the whole "one person's freedom ends where another's freedom begins" (1), "consciousness of necessity" and status quo worship were really, really stupid. I asked her how come people's right to smoke where they please cancels my right to breathe and not choke in the process and not the other way around and (1) was her answer. If I met her today, I'd ask why the sudden freedom from smoke comes prepackaged with a church on U grounds and a huge-ass cross at the entrance.
Why not acknowledge that indeed, anarchy is freedom but it's not sustainable because that's not what people want - much like total self-publishing is not sustainable because once you have this, someone aiming to increase sales by hiring a competent artist and editor comes around? That limiting one's freedom is the price of cooperation, and certain freedoms, like the freedom to steal, rape, and murder, have to go, and others, like the freedom of speech, have to stay, and some restrictions, like the necessity of pants, are cultural things?
But no, apparently the Steady State of Maximum Freedom is How Things Are Now, and why can't you see how the proposed right of homosexuals to marry totally violates our inalienable right not to have any married homosexuals around.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:20 pm

> Crissa wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote:But Sociology is by a large proportion, the most home to random gender theory idiots who want to make every damn thing about how white people are inherently inferior, and men are inherently violent assholes, and minorties and women are naturally super nice all the time, and can only become mean when corrupted by the white man, ect.

> Interesting posit. Can we come back to how Kaelik hates minorities and women? It is a fascinating projection to change the majority of male professors and the majority of conservative gender-bias affirming studies into a place where the white man is to be pitied.

Crissa, I get that your "thing" is calling me a racist and misogynist because you are fucking stupid, and don't ever actually follow the line of conversation, but really, at some point, you should probably draw the line on your bullshit.
Yes, Sociology is a department littered with most of the people who think that white men are evil. I did not say "the majority of all sociology professors are retards." I said that Sociology is where all the gender dumbfucks go.
Yes Sociology has the highest concentration of and most vehement of the "When you talk all the time, you are just doing it to shut the women up because you're a racist" (Yes, that brings race into a discussion that has nothing to do with race, it's also a direct fucking quote.)
Just like Philosophy of Religion has the highest proportion of retarded "God is proved by philosophy, because I'm scared of the concept of no absolute and objective good and evil" types.
That doesn't mean all or even most of that department is of the retarded subgroup, only that they exist primarily there.
I mean what, are you going to try to tell me with a straight face that half the Sociology courses at major universities aren't called "Gender Studies: A Tribute to How Women Overcame The Oppression of Evil Men Who Are White." And the Other half aren't "Multiculturalism at it's Best: Why White Men Are Evil Jerks Who Should Not Be Allowed to Criticize Islam/Indians/Orientals (but don't call them that to their faces) for Mistreating Women."

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:33 pm

> Robby Pants wrote:This would be particularly nice if they could understand why interest on your investments is good, why investing early is good, why interest on your debt is bad, and why saving up for a purchase instead of borrowing is good.
> They're all fairly simple concepts (late middle school, early high school) that way to many people ignore.

Isn't that supposed to be what the "Economics" in "Home Economics" is partly about?

> Starmaker wrote:Sociology comes close to being the science to answer the question on life, the universe and everything, and as a result it's very easy to screw up teaching it.

Yeah. I used to ask a lot of questions in my sociology class because I was always interested in fleshing out the basic concepts we were being taught... Until finally my professor said, "Miss Rayner, it's too early on Monday morning for me to deal with your questions. Go to the library."
Up until that point, I was really interested in the class. My sociology textbook remains the only college text I've actually sold when the class was over.

> Parthenon wrote:Other things I'd like to see in school are basic DIY/housework: how to change a plug, how to use a screwdriver/hammer properly, how to unblock toilets or sinks, how to install a washing machine/dishwasher. That sort of thing.

See, I would put that in the category of home ec. I mean, who really gives a damn about being able ot make a cupcake-shaped pillow out of felt and fabric? I'm not going to use that garbage in my home. Yes, basic sewing, maybe - hemming pants or putting a button back on... I can even see making a pillow. But a retarded pillow?
Yech.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:01 am

My home-ec course (one semester was required) was taught by a woman who had retired to our town and was otherwise independently wealthy from her investments.
So for the required course, she skipped past bank accounts and went straight into how to handle investments, 401Ks, and the various types of securities which were common at the time. We even did stock tracking.
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Nicklance
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Post by Nicklance » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:31 am

I must admit you guys have some pretty cool education going on.
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Neeeek
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Post by Neeeek » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:54 am

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:They taught us First Aid in elementary school. I told my dad (who was an EMT at the time) what they taught us, and he hit the roof.
> It seems that some of the things they told us was worse than simply not doing anything at all (Like if you can't stop the bleeding in 2 minutes, apply a tourniquet on the limb as close to the torso as possible.) And they advocated Syrup of Ipecac as a cure-all.

That's weird. My first aid stuff from elementary school was stuff like "Apply pressure to stop bleeding." and "Don't move someone who might have a broken neck or back."
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Meikle641
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Post by Meikle641 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:13 am

...First aid in elementary? Never had that, but my school lacked a lot of things.
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RobbyPants
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Post by RobbyPants » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:53 am

> Maj wrote:

> > Robby Pants wrote:This would be particularly nice if they could understand why interest on your investments is good, why investing early is good, why interest on your debt is bad, and why saving up for a purchase instead of borrowing is good.
> > They're all fairly simple concepts (late middle school, early high school) that way to many people ignore.

> Isn't that supposed to be what the "Economics" in "Home Economics" is partly about?

Sure. But it wasn't mandatory in high school. The middle school version I had to take was all about baking brownies and making that delicious chocolate "puppy chow".
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:18 pm

I took home economics in middle school. They said I was gay. I sure didn't feel gay being the only guy in a class full of domestically-inclined young women my age. Kind of like the time a male friend said I was gay for dancing with everyone's wives and girlfriends (Again, didn't feel gay).
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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RobbyPants
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Post by RobbyPants » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:42 pm

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I took home economics in middle school. They said I was gay. I sure didn't feel gay being the only guy in a class full of domestically-inclined young women my age. Kind of like the time a male friend said I was gay for dancing with everyone's wives and girlfriends (Again, didn't feel gay).

You like women? That's so gay!
It reminds me of an old Simpsons episode where Nelson kisses Lisa and the three bullies make fun of him for kissing a girl and that being "so gay".
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:06 am

> RobbyPants wrote:Sure. But it wasn't mandatory in high school. The middle school version I had to take was all about baking brownies and making that delicious chocolate "puppy chow".

My point was that what they teach us isn't home ec. It's some watered down useless timewaster. With all the health and life skills classes that are prevalent throughout high school and college, there should be time in there to teach people about real home economics.
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Post by Username17 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:24 am

Fomenko time is seriously the most bizarre conspiracy theory I have yet seen. Apparently all ancient Lydian coins are forgeries by French enlightenment thinkers to help undermine the power of the Russians? I'm a little unclear on why anyone would bury gold coins off the coast of Turkey in the 17th century to undermine the power of Russia. It seems like you could just spend the gold on undermining the power of Russia instead.
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Doom
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Post by Doom » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:11 pm

As much as I like to consider alternate points of view, that's stuff looks like pure crap at first glance.
And after reading a few pages, it still looks like pure crap. Basically it dismisses all evidence contrary to its conclusions, then uses the "history repeats itself" cliche to say there was no repetition, just one history being recycled to 'account' for the years before that one history.

> Kaelik, to Tzor wrote: And you aren't shot in the face?

> Frank Trollman wrote:A government is also immortal ...On the plus side, once the United Kingdom is no longer united, the United States of America will be the oldest country in the world. USA!

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RobbyPants
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Post by RobbyPants » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:04 pm

> Maj wrote:

> > RobbyPants wrote:Sure. But it wasn't mandatory in high school. The middle school version I had to take was all about baking brownies and making that delicious chocolate "puppy chow".

> My point was that what they teach us isn't home ec. It's some watered down useless timewaster. With all the health and life skills classes that are prevalent throughout high school and college, there should be time in there to teach people about real home economics.

Ah. I must have misunderstood what you said.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:21 am

I sense a lot of race/gender tension in this thread, coming from both ends.
Now I'm not advocating any Golden Means fallacy crap, but I am saying that there is a high quotient of impotent rage in a couple of posts.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Cynic
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Post by Cynic » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:28 am

Lago: based on that tension, would you offer up a suggestion for a class that teaches coping mechanisms and anger management skills to young students?
Seriously, I've been thinking about such a class recently and how it probably would have been useful if taught at a more formative age.

> Ancient History wrote:We were working on Street Magic, and Frank asked me if a houngan had run over my dog.

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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:38 am

Our favorite instructor at the local CC is going on furlough next quarter for an unknown length of time because of budget cutbacks. He's not allowed to donate his time actually teaching or to take an hourly wage less other teachers who are not older or still working for a living be forced to take leser wages (which are really too low as is).
Alas.
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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:39 am

Empathy development helps for that.
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