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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:17 pm

so what needed changing?
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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Maj
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Post by Maj » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Would someone please explain to me how the Asiana pilot name prank was racist?
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:35 pm

Any humor that's based on foreign people having funny names is suspect.
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sabs
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Post by sabs » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:24 pm

It was racist in that it was making fun of foreign names, by making up fake names that sounded out are stupid things in english, but that an idiot might not realize are not real names.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:32 am

It's not the same level of racism as genocide, but making fun of foreigners by dint of making fun of their names (by implying they could totally have names that sound like funny phrases) is still racist. The fact that Long Wang is an actual Chinese name (meaning "dragon king") is very unfortunate as far as fuel goes.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Grek
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Post by Grek » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:55 am

On the other hand, I think you get a pass for laughing at Long Wang as long as you'd also laugh at a guy called Dick Huffington or Harry Toupet.

> FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.

> Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.

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Whipstitch
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Post by Whipstitch » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:13 am

Also, context. A lot of stand up bits containing objectionable language are largely disarmed by virtue of actually demonstrating empathy for people in complex or ambiguous situations. A Long Wang joke may be relatively harmless, but if you make them in the context of misinforming a television station that is reporting on a plane crash? In that case, I think it's fair that people consider the possibility you're too racist to give any shits about Asians.
Last edited by Whipstitch on Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
bears fall, everyone dies
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:15 am

> Grek wrote:On the other hand, I think you get a pass for laughing at Long Wang as long as you'd also laugh at a guy called Dick Huffington or Harry Toupet.

That's true - there's an Australian called Wayne Kerr. His parents probably should have been jailed for that, given the laughter provided to everyone except him.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Maj
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Post by Maj » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:12 am

See, I never thought they were making fun of Asians. I mean, who doesn't know the stupid book-never-written jokes like "Yellow River" by IP Freely, "Under the Bleachers" by Seymour Bottoms, and "Perils of Sliding Glass Doors" by Dick Hertz? Or the prank names like Mike (Rotch, Hawk, and Hunt), Ben Dover, Joe King, Herbie Hind, Hugh Jass... I mean, the list is endless. I just thought it was language play, and it made me laugh - especially because the people who let that get on the air missed it so utterly. I was shocked when all the news articles started declaring it racist. And when this came out (Ho Lee Fuk Sues TV Station for Defamation), I still thought it was funny.
I guess I'm a terrible person.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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Whipstitch
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Post by Whipstitch » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:42 am

I'll admit that I'm biased by my firm belief that pranksters can eat shit.
bears fall, everyone dies
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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:09 am

It's a form of pun, so even if we can't agree it's racist we can all agree it's offensive.
More seriously, there's nothing racist about it. There are words or names from one language/culture (or seem to outsiders as though they are plausibly from that language/culture) that sound like a totally different word in another language/culture. Pointing that out or using it to make jokes is not racist - there's no implied superiority or inferiority or any bullshit like that. It's just a pun that crosses a language barrier.
That doesn't change the fact that a lot of people died and that was not the appropriate time or place to make that joke. So you can say that dude is kind of an asshole for trying and succeeding in getting his joke about a recent tragedy on television without calling him racist. If you're going to call him a racist, you have some burden of proof to show that his irreverence is specifically because they were asian and not because he is an asshole in general. Racism requires a racial motivation.
Last edited by DSMatticus on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Whipstitch
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Post by Whipstitch » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:21 pm

For legal purposes I would readily agree that it is in no way unambiguous enough. But given the context, I feel comfortable saying that the pranksters were being asshats, and so I can understand how people felt disrespected by that. And when people feel disrespected, they wonder why they were being disrespected and "I don't care about foreigners" is a really easy to conclusion to come to in that case. So while I think a lawsuit is taking things farther than they need to go, I don't think the reaction has been in anyway unpredictable or even particularly insane.
bears fall, everyone dies
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:16 pm

> DSMatticus wrote:That doesn't change the fact that a lot of people died and that was not the appropriate time or place to make that joke.

This, I agree with.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:57 pm

Since someone claiming to be from an organization called the Foundation Encyclopedia Dialectica, which is apparently an intentional modern-day knockoff of Asimov's Foundation, has posted on another message board a frequent claiming to have a functioning model of psychohistory I have to ask one question.
Is this merely bullshit or is it timecube-level crazy?
http://www.dialectics.org/dialectics/Ao ... tions.html
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:05 pm

> hyzmarca wrote:Since someone claiming to be from an organization called the Foundation Encyclopedia Dialectica, which is apparently an intentional modern-day knockoff of Asimov's Foundation, has posted on another message board a frequent claiming to have a functioning model of psychohistory I have to ask one question.
> Is this merely bullshit or is it timecube-level crazy?
> http://www.dialectics.org/dialectics/Ao ... tions.html

Time Cube.
See, you know it's going downhill when you realize that there isn't any text on that page. That entire rant is an image file. Then when you scroll around in it and see that the author is ranting about holographic projections through time, you can tell what is up.
-Username17
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:55 pm

A functioning model of psychohistory?
That page is just full of jumbled words and random symbols. It doesn't even mean things, he's just describing vaguely explain ideas using gibberish mixed with real words and colored symbols (which are also explained using gibberish).

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:01 pm

Ok, this is going to sound ignorant, but:
Why is gypsy considered a racist/derogatory/pejorative term?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Nebuchadnezzar
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Post by Nebuchadnezzar » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Exonyms almost by definition accumulate pejorative associations (see:barbarian). Add in the term being frequently used for traditionally itinerant groups not of Romani origin, like some groups of Travellers, and that the vast majority of Romani don't claim any sort of Egyptian descent.
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Nebuchadnezzar
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Post by Nebuchadnezzar » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:34 pm

What is a good product/method for preserving formatting while extracting text in columns from a pdf? I have an absolute shittonne to get through, so would love something I could queue up overnight.
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:39 pm

> Prak_Anima wrote:Ok, this is going to sound ignorant, but:
> Why is gypsy considered a racist/derogatory/pejorative term?

Because people kept using it as one until it became one.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:49 pm

Ok, that's fair. I've never heard it used as a pejorative (outside of "gypped," which I think has basically had it's racist origin forgotten by the vast majority of people), but if that's the case then it makes sense.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Nebuchadnezzar
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Post by Nebuchadnezzar » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:39 am

Welch/Welsh (as in on a bet) is a term in a similar position, although not generally considered quite as pejorative. In that the Welsh stereotype is generally unpleasant (cheating, thieving, singing sheep-fuckers who all share the same 5 last names) it says something about how loaded a term gypsy is.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:58 am

I think this is another case where my pragmatism just kind of sets me apart from most people. I see the gypsy stereotype (nomadic people with a reputation for grifting) as not particularly unflattering, but that's because I don't see subsistence theft as that big of a deal, really.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Maj
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Post by Maj » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:29 am

One of my friends called me a gypsy the other day, but she meant it in the sense of exotic wanderlust.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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Shrapnel
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Post by Shrapnel » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:03 am

I've gotta say, I've never heard anyone be called a gypsy as a compliment. Is that just a thing your friend does, or have I been misusing this underutilized word all my life?
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