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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:20 pm

> Kaelik wrote:
> I don't need advice on how to gain Elo, I need advice on how to win a fucking series, I have been in the same goddam series for 3 months.
> Nor is any of your advice worth even a tiny shit or not something I am already doing.

Fine, simple advice after taking a look on lolking.
Run glass cannon assassins if you want to "win lane, win game" at lower ranks. Pantheon top/mid is broken at lower Elos because he's a lane dominating assassin who jumps to other lanes. Akali is a solid pick as well, but more focused on winning teamfights since her laning isn't great.
Lower ranks have wider skill gaps and carries often position poorly, so if you're better than everyone in your games the best way to win is to pick a high damage champion. Use your damage to crush your lane (removes one opponent), then eliminate at least 1 carry in each fight (just wait by the sides until one gets into range and instagib the fucker) so your team can't lose.

> Kaelik wrote:Which would totally matter if there were any such thing as not playing in a fucking series. I gain 20LP per win and lose 5LP per win. And spend five out of every six games in a goddam eternal series against Silver IIIs where my MMR has apparently climbed so high that I have the highest MMR on my team in every game and am supposed to carry a bunch of monstrous shit heads.

Kaelik gonna Kaelik, right? I said "this is why that's happening, and it sucks." It's frustrating because it makes promos much harder, but then once you get out you'll climb fast again (and probably skip a division or two in silver).
At every Elo you'll have to carry shitheads. Some games can't be carried, but a lot of them can.
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ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:45 am

//
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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:30 am

If you have to tell people who are good at League that they have no life, I'm pretty sure that you have no life.
Last edited by Surgo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:55 pm

> ubernoob wrote:Last hitting gets money. Money buys items. Items give you advantage. Advantage wins you games. People who are really, really good at league (remember, something like 85% of the players that play ranked are bronze or silver) are really, really good at last hitting and other mechanics intensive skills (such as trading when the enemy goes in for a last hit). You have to devote a serious amount of time and energy to getting better at that one activity (last hitting, etc) and absolutely none of that ability translates over to any other aspect of your life. Also, you have to maintain these skills. I've seen this first hand since I significantly cut back on the amount of league I play. If matchmaking is making you get shit on, it is because you are not as good as you used to be. People that get to and stay at high elo do that because they play a shit ton of league.
> So yeah. League is fun and all, but at the end of the day it's a MOBA. Ranked doesn't even let you go in with more than one person, so it's hardly a social activity (the ideal scenario being ADC + support).

This is something that gets my goat, the idea that being good at something you enjoy == having no life. But first, if you think League is mechanically difficult you're fucking retarded.
Last hitting: Click a low minion, if its health is lower than your AD you attack it. Look at its health bar as well, that's about how low the other ones have to get before you last hit them (so you don't need to click every single minion). Fuck, there are even two out of three roles where last hitting doesn't matter.
Trading: "This minion of mine is low, I'm going to walk at the enemy and do damage because he wants to kill it" doesn't require anything but eyes and knowing your champion's range.
League has no complicated inputs, the hardest thing to do is probably flash certain walls or put a point into a skill during a fight (hitting control + a skill is hard for me, shut up) without making a mistake.
There's a large amount of knowledge that helps in league, particularly in solo lanes (Can Riven all-in Renekton at 3 and come out ahead? If Syndra whiffs her stun can she still beat Ryze in a trade? Will my ult be up before theirs?), that means absolutely nothing in real life and can only be gained by playing the game or studying it, but that's hardly required knowledge to get a high rank and it is knowledge you'll pick up eventually. It's required if you want to play the game and get a salary from it, but I can guarantee you Diamond I players don't think "Riven does W damage during her full combo and shields X, Renekton does Y and sustains Z, so if Riven times her shield right..." before their trade because they are not (all) sitting in a basement and masturbating to Yordle porn as they memorize League spreadsheets 24/7.
You know how high ranked and low ranked players are different? High ranked players pay attention to shit and share knowledge with their team.
If my opponent flashes I type "mid flash" and know it won't be up for about 5 minutes because I also run flash. Literally anyone who's played League with flash could find out how long the CD of flash is with no effort whatsoever during or right before a game, but high ranked players will call the flash out in chat so they have an idea of when it will be back up and low ranked players will not do that. Same thing with ults, summoner spells, and important jungle camps. I'm not sure what the CD on barrier is (I think 3 minutes? When I'm playing AD I know because I can check my own), but I sure as fuck call it out in chat so my team knows they won't get barrier baited for a while.
High ranked players also tend to pay more attention to the minimap and ward better, but that's just being able to split your focus without having your performance suffer and thinking about how you allocate resources. It's pretty simple shit.
None of the stuff required to be good at League takes a lot of time, it takes making an effort in a game you presumably enjoy. Is timing dragon fun? Not really, but being able to set up for a dragon fight and catching the other team unaware is fun. Is warding fun? Not particularly as fun as building the items you want, but it is fun when you catch the other team in transit and ace them.
TL;DR: Uber thinks clicking things is hard. Higher ranked players pay more attention to things.
Bonus: All the knowledge you need for Diamond: Buff camps are 5 minutes, Dragon is 6 minutes, Baron is 7 minutes, and flash is about 5 minutes.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:46 pm

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:This is something that gets my goat, the idea that being good at something you enjoy == having no life. But first, if you think League is mechanically difficult you're fucking retarded.
> Last hitting: Click a low minion, if its health is lower than your AD you attack it. Look at its health bar as well, that's about how low the other ones have to get before you last hit them (so you don't need to click every single minion). Fuck, there are even two out of three roles where last hitting doesn't matter.
> Trading: "This minion of mine is low, I'm going to walk at the enemy and do damage because he wants to kill it" doesn't require anything but eyes and knowing your champion's range.
> League has no complicated inputs, the hardest thing to do is probably flash certain walls or put a point into a skill during a fight (hitting control + a skill is hard for me, shut up) without making a mistake.
> There's a large amount of knowledge that helps in league, particularly in solo lanes (Can Riven all-in Renekton at 3 and come out ahead? If Syndra whiffs her stun can she still beat Ryze in a trade? Will my ult be up before theirs?), that means absolutely nothing in real life and can only be gained by playing the game or studying it, but that's hardly required knowledge to get a high rank and it is knowledge you'll pick up eventually. It's required if you want to play the game and get a salary from it, but I can guarantee you Diamond I players don't think "Riven does W damage during her full combo and shields X, Renekton does Y and sustains Z, so if Riven times her shield right..." before their trade because they are not (all) sitting in a basement and masturbating to Yordle porn as they memorize League spreadsheets 24/7.
> You know how high ranked and low ranked players are different? High ranked players pay attention to shit and share knowledge with their team.
> If my opponent flashes I type "mid flash" and know it won't be up for about 5 minutes because I also run flash. Literally anyone who's played League with flash could find out how long the CD of flash is with no effort whatsoever during or right before a game, but high ranked players will call the flash out in chat so they have an idea of when it will be back up and low ranked players will not do that. Same thing with ults, summoner spells, and important jungle camps. I'm not sure what the CD on barrier is (I think 3 minutes? When I'm playing AD I know because I can check my own), but I sure as fuck call it out in chat so my team knows they won't get barrier baited for a while.
> High ranked players also tend to pay more attention to the minimap and ward better, but that's just being able to split your focus without having your performance suffer and thinking about how you allocate resources. It's pretty simple shit.
> None of the stuff required to be good at League takes a lot of time, it takes making an effort in a game you presumably enjoy. Is timing dragon fun? Not really, but being able to set up for a dragon fight and catching the other team unaware is fun. Is warding fun? Not particularly as fun as building the items you want, but it is fun when you catch the other team in transit and ace them.
> TL;DR: Uber thinks clicking things is hard. Higher ranked players pay more attention to things.
> Bonus: All the knowledge you need for Diamond: Buff camps are 5 minutes, Dragon is 6 minutes, Baron is 7 minutes, and flash is about 5 minutes.

You are a fucking idiot.
1) Low ranked players do in fact call out buffs, flashes, and ults. Sometimes they take a bad trade because their opponent attacks them while they are typing it, because Bronze players do in fact consist of people who are mechanically slower at fucking everything.
2) The knowledge of when you will win trades is absolutely fucking essential to being a good league player, and even if you don't think about it in terms of number everyone in diamond has a very good sense of what trades are or are not in their favor and by how much.
3) Clicking things is hard, because you have to click things at the right time, while doing a bunch of other shit at the same time. Your defense of the mechanical simplicity of League applies even stronger to Starcraft. God, it is so easy to click things in starcraft, you just click, so therefore the only possible reason anyone could be bad is because they are stupid.
4) Your sanctimonious bullshit about you have no physical advantage propelling you to diamond one means about as much as Peyton Mannings "weak" arm. It is still a stronger arm with more touch than 99.9% of the population. Likewise, the act of going into a fight and using your abilities correctly on very short notice is not a meaningless triviality that everyone could do and everyone would be in diamond one if they were just not idiots who don't call out fucking flashes. You fucking idiot.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:14 pm

I don't know anything about points 2, 3, and 4 as far as point 1 goes I'm a silver scrub and I never, EVER see anyone call out buff timers. Dragons get timed occasionally, and every once in a while someone will say "X flash down".
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:56 pm

> Kaelik wrote: You are a fucking idiot.
> 1) Low ranked players do in fact call out buffs, flashes, and ults. Sometimes they take a bad trade because their opponent attacks them while they are typing it, because Bronze players do in fact consist of people who are mechanically slower at fucking everything.
> 2) The knowledge of when you will win trades is absolutely fucking essential to being a good league player, and even if you don't think about it in terms of number everyone in diamond has a very good sense of what trades are or are not in their favor and by how much.
> 3) Clicking things is hard, because you have to click things at the right time, while doing a bunch of other shit at the same time. Your defense of the mechanical simplicity of League applies even stronger to Starcraft. God, it is so easy to click things in starcraft, you just click, so therefore the only possible reason anyone could be bad is because they are stupid.
> 4) Your sanctimonious bullshit about you have no physical advantage propelling you to diamond one means about as much as Peyton Mannings "weak" arm. It is still a stronger arm with more touch than 99.9% of the population. Likewise, the act of going into a fight and using your abilities correctly on very short notice is not a meaningless triviality that everyone could do and everyone would be in diamond one if they were just not idiots who don't call out fucking flashes. You fucking idiot.

1. Yeah, I remember when I was in silver/gold people alllllways called out summoner spells, ults and camps. No they fucking didn't, you're in a dream world. People in plat are a fucking tossup as to whether they'll call that out.
2. Knowledge of trades in a general sense of "I am strong because I have these items and my opponent is not" is what the majority of diamonds have. It's really, really hard to predict damage in trades because of minions and everyone running different runes/masteries. You don't trade all that much in lanes anyways unless you know their jungler isn't around and/or one of you is way stronger than the other. Bad people trade all the fucking time, jungler spotted or not, item disadvantage or not. They will not back down from waves or abandon a turret.
3. Comparing League to Starcraft is retarded. You are controlling one unit in League, a unit with 4 abilities, 2 summoner spells, an auto attack, and maybe some active items. Using your skills correctly can be hard, but that's a decision making issue and NOT a mechanical issue. Mechanics have nothing to do with, say, landing a good Gragas ult unless you have trouble navigating the desktop in Windows. There are some mechanics in fast and impressive "faceroll" combos, but there aren't even that many champions who have that shit. A Kat doing her reset bullshit for a pentakill is mechanics and decision making, the only mechanics involved a Gragas ult that sets up a good fight are "move mouse to correct spot" and "press ult."
Mechanics are literally your ability to hit buttons quickly and move your mouse to where you want it to be. In Starcraft this is hard because you're hitting a fuckton of buttons and clicking on a fuckton of things, in League you are hitting comparatively few buttons and clicking on very few things. Kiting as an ADC is mechanically difficult, flashing over certain walls is mechanically difficult, last hitting is absolutely not.
4. A physical advantage? It's a goddamn video game. The only physical advantages you can really have are fast reactions and quick hands. My reaction times are ~average, I'm a fast typist though so I know where buttons on my keyboard are and can press them.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:20 pm

I'm reasonably sure that Faker's 3-foot penis gives him a sizable advantage, to say the least. I haven't finished my placement series yet, but I'm probably mid-low bronze. I never, ever, ever see buff/monster timers. Ever. I never see summoner spell calls either. Also, comparing starcraft micro to any part of league except possibly a full riven combo with hydra is utterly laughable.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:53 pm

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:You don't trade all that much in lanes anyways unless you know their jungler isn't around and/or one of you is way stronger than the other. Bad people trade all the fucking time, jungler spotted or not, item disadvantage or not. They will not back down from waves or abandon a turret.

What lane do you even play, because "I just won't trade with this Nasus ever unless I am 100% sure the jungler is not around" is going to get you a whole lot of lost games.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:3. Comparing League to Starcraft is retarded. You are controlling one unit in League, a unit with 4 abilities, 2 summoner spells, an auto attack, and maybe some active items. Using your skills correctly can be hard, but that's a decision making issue and NOT a mechanical issue. Mechanics have nothing to do with, say, landing a good Gragas ult unless you have trouble navigating the desktop in Windows. There are some mechanics in fast and impressive "faceroll" combos, but there aren't even that many champions who have that shit. A Kat doing her reset bullshit for a pentakill is mechanics and decision making, the only mechanics involved a Gragas ult that sets up a good fight are "move mouse to correct spot" and "press ult."

1) Yes if you tremendously backpedal from your gloriously stupid position that absolutely no one has mechanical advantage over anyone, some things are in fact mechanics. Like Riven, and Kat, and Ahri, and probably several other champs, vayne/trist?
2) There are no mechanics involve in a Gragas ult, except you know, moving your cursor to the exact right position in a group of five people in a split second. I mean, everyone can do that right? I, Pseudo can, so obviously it is trivially easy and no one could possibly take a non zero amount of time to move their cursor to the correct location.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:Mechanics are literally your ability to hit buttons quickly and move your mouse to where you want it to be. In Starcraft this is hard because you're hitting a fuckton of buttons and clicking on a fuckton of things, in League you are hitting comparatively few buttons and clicking on very few things. Kiting as an ADC is mechanically difficult, flashing over certain walls is mechanically difficult, last hitting is absolutely not.

Yes, it is easier in League. But Easier than Starcraft does not mean so easy that literally anyone can do it. Some people do not have fast reaction times.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:4. A physical advantage? It's a goddamn video game. The only physical advantages you can really have are fast reactions and quick hands. My reaction times are ~average, I'm a fast typist though so I know where buttons on my keyboard are and can press them.

Oh really, and when did you enroll your self in a reaction time study? Did the study account for age?
The closest thing to a fucking reaction test I know about you is that you are among the top 5% of all League of Legends players. And I'm pretty sure if I asked anyone without a vested interest in pretending it is only because of their huge brains and total smartness, most Diamond 1s will admit to a huge reaction time advantage over the piles of 30 something ex starcraft players who can only make it to Platinum because their reactions have decayed.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:31 pm

Kaelik, I get that the ONLY REASON you are not diamond at League is your teammates and apparently physical attributes, but that is not a big fucking deal.
I never had mechanical problems with League, I played SSBM at a competitive level and it is leaps and bounds more difficult to play from a "hit the right buttons at the right time in the right order" standpoint. I was still shit at League because I did not know what it took to be good at League. I never, absolutely never, had a hard time clicking the right enemy unless they used some cheese like hiding behind a huge jungle creep (this is a Shaco thing, deceive at an enemy who's doing blue buff and hide Shaco behind the buff's fat ass when you start attacking the other jungler. You can hardly see or select Shaco). 99.9% of the time clicking an enemy is trivial.
Let's look at a Gragas ult. You have a good idea you're going to want to be using it because the enemies are around, you know before you're in range. The other team does not all appear out of the blue and you have to throw a pixel-perfect Gragas ult at a bunch of targets you did not know existed until then. You can see the targets, you can usually see the initiate coming and your team has prepared for it or their team has started burning abilities, all you need to do is move your cursor between some enemies and hit R.
The difficulty is in knowing where you want to put it, not in getting the cursor there. You're a fucking idiot if you think it's harder to move the mouse to a spot than it is to decide "The enemies are here, by the time my ult's travel time is finished they'll be there. Based on where I am and where my team is, I want to move X, Y, Z in one direction and the others away from there, so I need to cast my ult at this spot." Moving the mouse is a joke compared to planning out what you want your ult to do and finding the right spot to put it. Actually moving the mouse there? That's not a particularly time-consuming thing.
For reaction times, I obviously haven't done a fucking study on it, just those stupid online tests that the smash community used to do as an e-peen measuring game. Mine has consistently ended up around average. Some of the best players would have 170ms reaction times and shit like that on the stupid tests, but those were absurd superhuman twitch gamers.
Reaction times are obviously a thing, but to think they'd do anything but separate extremely tiny skill gaps is stupid. Faker isn't a million times better than me because of his aforementioned giant cock (which he uses to hit control to level up skills mid-fight) or reaction times, it's because he knows more about the game and is better than me at literally every aspect of it. He makes better decisions, builds more efficiently, last hits more reliably, harasses more effectively, wards in better spots, and times fucking everything. It isn't because he moves his cursor to the right spot 20ms faster than I do (though he probably does).

> sandmann wrote:

> > Zak S wrote:I'm not a dick, I'm really nice.

> > Zak S wrote:(...) once you have decided that you will spend any part of your life trolling on the internet, you forfeit all rights as a human.If you should get hit by a car--no-one should help you. If you vote on anything--your vote should be thrown away.
> > If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.

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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:35 pm

500 server error: Double post.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:23 pm

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:I never had mechanical problems with League, I played SSBM at a competitive level

I Pseudo stupidity have no problem with reactions, so I can't imagine why anyone else would...
Look dumb shit, once again, I did not play SSBM competitively. I did play it, even against competitive players, who unsurprisingly wiped the floor with me. It would not surprise me what so fucking ever that they have little to no mechanical difficulty with League. But I am not them. I can wave dash reliably with Luigi from a fall if no one else is playing. I often mess up my short hops into regular jumps even when just sitting there attempting to short hop (or did, I haven't played in a long time).
It does not surprise me that someone who mastered SSBM mechanics would have no problems with League, but the thing you are missing is that most people cannot master SSBM mechanics, and for those people, it is harder than it is for you.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:The difficulty is in knowing where you want to put it, not in getting the cursor there.

No, realizing you want to Ult the team apart is actually really simple. Very limited prediction of the enemy team and their current movement is also very easy. The more precise knowledge of specifically who has what escapes off CD and is ready to use them is actually difficult, but that isn't the reason Gragus ults land absolutely off target and miss carries and throw Shyvanas onto carries. Which is absolutely something that happens in Bronze.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:just those stupid online tests that the smash community used to do as an e-peen measuring game. Mine has consistently ended up around average. Some of the best players would have 170ms reaction times and shit like that on the stupid tests, but those were absurd superhuman twitch gamers.

Average for people who competitively play a twitch fighting game is not average for the world. Bronze League Players are the people who played SSBM amongst friends, and yes, some of them are retarded monkeys who think Blitz is OP because they don't bother to know the cooldown or range of grab. But some of them are also actually missing blitz grabs all the time, just because they are fucking bad at aiming nearly instant skill shots, and doing nothing for their team.
Your average for the SSBM community is still fucktons better than all the people who were never part of that community at least in part because they are not very fucking fast reaction times.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Post by Surgo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:35 pm

Hey Pseudo, do you think Nasus will still be viable after the Doran's Shield nerf?
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:35 pm

Kaelik, do you really believe people who play computer games have trouble selecting targets with their mouse? I don't believe my ability to select a target with my mouse is significantly better than your average League player's, nor do I believe somebody like Faker is significantly better at clicking a target than I am. There are way too many other things that he's better than me at for his mouse accuracy to be a big deal.
Anyways, mechanical ability is NOT what separates the golds/plats from the top tier of players. You'll realize when/if you climb it is not your mechanical skill that's separating you from everyone else, you'll start being really fucking confused by the decisions others make and be able to call out stupid ideas before they get punished. I haven't been to bronze or silver in a long ass time, but the mistakes I tend to see from my silver/bronze friends are generally not mechanical errors. They'll split push without ward coverage, focus the wrong targets in fights, burn flash when they don't need to, fail to make use of advantages, take terrible engagements, and yeah, they'll miss some pretty easy CS as well and fail flash into walls sometimes. Thing is, fail flashing into a wall tends to be the least of their problems.
Maybe you're seeing a lot of people fucking up in mechanical ways, but I've seen some janky-ass bronze games and they're usually janky because everyone is playing like an idiot. I've seen 2 enemies go down after 30 minutes and the ADC runs off to farm the wraiths instead of pushing with the team or taking baron. Mechanical problems are the least of their worries.
The mechanics of League are easy to learn though, and playing a small amount each day is more than enough to get the mechanics required to be ranked well (that was the original topic I think?). The decision making is vastly more important and where the most severe errors can be found.

> Surgo wrote:Hey Pseudo, do you think Nasus will still be viable after the Doran's Shield nerf?

I don't think Nasus will ever stop being viable unless they hit the champion again (he's certainly stopped getting picked a lot), but he's definitely going to be a little easier to bully. Right now he can shrug off a hell of a lot of harass from most tops thanks to lifesteal, shield passive and shield regen. Halving the regen is a big hit, but I think Nasus will still exist (and jungle Nasus should really be more popular anyways). I also don't think they'll go through with halving the regen, because holy shit that's a huge nerf.
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Post by Kaelik » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:56 pm

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:Anyways, mechanical ability is NOT what separates the golds/plats from the top tier of players.

Nor did I say they are you fucking shithead. I said they are one important factor in who is fucking bronze. Not like your trite ass shit about how knowing timers is literally all you need to know to be in Diamond 1, even though everyone knows timers, and 50% of all players are Bronze or Silver.
You are the one categorically denying any possible effect of reactions because it is so fucking easy for competitive SSBM players to target so it must be for everyone else.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:The mechanics of League are easy to learn though, and playing a small amount each day is more than enough to get the mechanics required to be ranked well (that was the original topic I think?).

No the original topic was Uber saying something stupid and then leaving and you doubling down by saying something even stupider, and then defending it to the death by categorically denying any possible effect mechanics could every have on playing League of Legends even as you excessively backpedal to admit that actually there are a bunch of things that do require mechanics, and hey maybe there are even people with bad mechanics but they have other things keeping them out of diamond... Duh, but you still won't admit that mechanics is actually a factor.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:41 am

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Post by Surgo » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:59 am

I don't know if it's because a lot of other people were nerfed but Warwick is suddenly pretty strong. I've been locking him in when Shyvana and Nasus get banned. Normally I just play Shyvana. I was never much of a Mundo player so I don't do him that much.
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ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:07 am

//
Last edited by ubernoob on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:03 am

Since we're on the topic of warwick, how do you guys build/level him? I've been doing well wih double rings and then going into BoRK, but his only harass is his Q and I tend to get crapped on in extended trades against common tops like shyv and mundo.
EDIT: Also, being countered with a QSS is very frustrating.
Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:24 am

I do Q > E > W. Start with a Doran's Shield. Next item usually depends on the enemy laner.
Is it the rare AP top like Rumble or Vladimyer? A casual Chalice isn't even a bad idea (don't complete the Grail), but you could also just rush the Spirit Visage. Otherwise I pretty much always go to an instant Sunfire Cape. After that it's more health and tankiness -- Randuin's Omen. Wit's End for some damage if it makes sense (versus some AP and the MR shred would help your mid laner).
You should actually win your extended trades against those guys as long as you don't fight inside enemy minions against Shyvana (you'll lose HARD if she gets the E mark on you -- minion attacks WILL proc the %health damage!). Your passive can do a lot of damage. Make sure you fire off W if you're actually getting into an extended trade. Keep the Sunfire Cape on top of them -- it does a lot of damage! Then once it's done you attack some minions and heal yourself up the damage you just took.
Sometimes you'll lose. I screwed up and fed two kills to an enemy Lee Sin. This is when you need to rely on your incredible durability from passive + Q.
I've only been building BoRK once I felt I was tanky enough, not before. If I haven't built Wit's End it makes a good last item. My last few games have been against somewhat squishier teams that haven't built much health so I just stuck with Wit's End.
Frozen Heart is also a great choice over Randuin's Omen (dat CDR), I probably don't build it enough really. I like the health but I should probably consider it more often when I have Sunfire Cape + Spirit Visage.
QSS isn't the end of the world. You can ult someone else or just force them to blow it. Remember that when you press W your ADC suddenly does a lot more damage!
Last edited by Surgo on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:12 pm

Kaelik, you think there are people who have trouble moving their mouse to a certain location and pressing a button. Maybe if League is somebody's first computer game ever and they just started using computers they lack the mouse accuracy needed. Even my parents, who are almost computer illiterate, quickly select icons on their desktop with a mouse. They have no interest in games, but they sure as fuck can click icons with a mouse fast.
I just realized (a possible reason) why you think there's a lot of mechanical skill in League and I don't, I don't use my mouse for camera movement. I have my controls set up differently than the vast majority of League players because I don't like whipping my mouse across the screen every time I want to look somewhere. I use WASD to move my camera and just moved my skills to 1, 2, 3, 4, stop to Q and my summoner spells are E and R. Items are an unholy combination of F, G, and my two side mouse buttons (I try not to use the side buttons). Pings are H (general) and V (back ping).
So I guess yes, I did think mousing around to move your screen was kind of hard or at the very least annoying. Instead of trying to do it I eliminated the mechanical requirement of whipping my hand back and forth to look at shit. Crazy mouse movement is not a required League skill.
For reactions: In a game with pings in excess of 100ms there is no reason to think reaction times are all that important, because ping would be of even greater importance. However, there is a correlation between low ping and rank, but unless you think a 20ms difference is all that important in a slow paced game you're a crazy person. Having a low ping is nice, but not a prerequisite for high level play. So obviously reaction times are not that fucking important except at (possibly) challenger and professional level play.
Saint is almost 30 <insert that's why he sucks at smiting joke>, and I think there are a few pro players older than him as well. It really does look like early 30s is the cutoff (apparently there's a pro SC2 player who's 32, he must have the worst carpel tunnel ever), but there's a good chance that's because life gets in the way and e-sports are new.
On Warwick: My friend was on to something. He's angry as hell at Darien for "stealing my build and teaching people how to play against Warwick again." Warwick is still a better jungler than he is laner unless you're up against a squishy top or weak scaler. Squishy because once WW is 6 you get a free kill on them when your jungler ganks, weak scaler because WW scales pretty well into being an unkillable tanky dps. Otherwise warwick is a farm lane and he has no escapes, which is dangerous.
WW has versatile builds, and is good with all Doran's items or even a flask start if you really want to just stay in lane until 6. BotRK and Wit's are awesome, and you can go tankwick or assassinwick and still be useful depending on the other team's comp. Assassinwick is a counter to normal assassins because he's terrible at getting into the other team to select his target, but very good at killing assassins who come within range. Generally you want the following items in no particular order: Wit's End, BotRK, Sunfire, Visage, GA, sorc shoes or tanky boots. They give Warwick damage, sustain, varied resists, and the GA is better on Warwick than it is on most champs because he'll come back up and be able to immediately Q somebody to heal and hopefully stay alive for a bit longer.
If you're in the jungle substitute any one item for a spirit of the whatever. They're all good on him. AD one if you want big fuckin ults, AP one if you want big fuckin Qs, ancient golem if you don't want to build merc treads and plan on building a damage item right after it.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:16 pm

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:Kaelik, you think there are people who have trouble moving their mouse to a certain location and pressing a button. Maybe if League is somebody's first computer game ever and they just started using computers they lack the mouse accuracy needed. Even my parents, who are almost computer illiterate, quickly select icons on their desktop with a mouse. They have no interest in games, but they sure as fuck can click icons with a mouse fast.

1) Clicking icons has no time pressure. Taking 20 seconds is still "fast" for all intents an purposes.
2) I like how you lead with your continued stupid criticisms that are actually, as you even admit later in this post, completely bullshit.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:I just realized (a possible reason) why you think there's a lot of mechanical skill in League and I don't, I don't use my mouse for camera movement. I have my controls set up differently than the vast majority of League players because I don't like whipping my mouse across the screen every time I want to look somewhere. I use WASD to move my camera and just moved my skills to 1, 2, 3, 4, stop to Q and my summoner spells are E and R.

No, that is not a reason I think there is mechanical skill in League, it is a reason there is mechanical skill in League. Moving the camera is another thing you have to do that also makes it harder to do the other things you have to do.
And your system works fine for competitive SSBM reflexes, but not everyone can do that either, because while it would in fact make Gragus Ults easier to get your mouse in position if you didn't have to move your mouse ever, it would in fact guarantee that I would use the wrong abilities all the time. I can't even use a Bork or DFG at all without using a side mouse button because if I move my finger off the QWER keys it will not get back in time to throw a charm or tumble. If I had to move my fingers every time I moved the camera I would inevitably hit the wrong button or not hit anything until after I was CCed or dead. Because I do not have fast enough reaction to do that.
And nor is this likely to be particular to me, I bet it is true of many people in lower elos.

> Pseudo Stupidity wrote:For reactions: In a game with pings in excess of 100ms there is no reason to think reaction times are all that important, because ping would be of even greater importance. However, there is a correlation between low ping and rank, but unless you think a 20ms difference is all that important in a slow paced game you're a crazy person. Having a low ping is nice, but not a prerequisite for high level play. So obviously reaction times are not that fucking important except at (possibly) challenger and professional level play.

You are a fucking idiot. You just finished telling us how your fucking competitive SSBM reactions are 170ms. Obviously the difference between 100ms and 20ms doesn't even matter for the most part. But reaction times are greatly in excess of all those pings. For people who are in fact not competitive twitch game players you could probably expect their reaction to be well into the 3-400ms range.
So I tell you what, you play on only 400 ping connections for a few fucking months and get back to me about how reactions totally don't matter and anyone can be in diamond. After all, you know that buff timers, so it shouldn't be a problem because reaction times don't matter.
Last edited by Kaelik on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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rampaging-poet
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Post by rampaging-poet » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:18 pm

> Kaelik wrote:Moving the camera is another thing you have to do that also makes it harder to do the other things you have to do.

This. You have no idea how many skillshots I've missed because my opponent ran to the bottom corner of my screen and the camera scrolled when I tried to shoot him. Pseudo Stupidity's rebound controls sound like they would take a lot of practice to be useful, and I have no idea whether I'd miss more shots to camera scrolls or hitting the wrong button when my hand flies from WASD to 1234. Also, I'd say having to rebind controls counts as a mechanical skill, or at least demonstrates that there's enough mechanical skill involved in the default controls to make it worthwhile.

> DSMatticus wrote:I sort my leisure activities into a neat and manageable categorized hierarchy, then ignore it and dick around on the internet.

My deviantArt account, in case anyone cares.
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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:54 pm

Is it fair to say that Warwick has no escapes? I mean, if you can keep your enemy below 50% you basically have permaghost, but that itself is a bit of a challenge.
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:29 am

> rampaging-poet wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote:Moving the camera is another thing you have to do that also makes it harder to do the other things you have to do.

> This. You have no idea how many skillshots I've missed because my opponent ran to the bottom corner of my screen and the camera scrolled when I tried to shoot him. Pseudo Stupidity's rebound controls sound like they would take a lot of practice to be useful, and I have no idea whether I'd miss more shots to camera scrolls or hitting the wrong button when my hand flies from WASD to 1234. Also, I'd say having to rebind controls counts as a mechanical skill, or at least demonstrates that there's enough mechanical skill involved in the default controls to make it worthwhile.

I use WASD because it made sense to me after playing RTS games. It always seemed like aiming while moving your camera would be hard if you used the mouse for both. I don't misclick skills or anything because I'm an accurate typist. My item bindings are weird (I can't use more than 4 active items...not that there's a time that would feasibly happen), but you can have a slow mouse hand and play perfectly well using my setup.
I forgot how awful the default controls made me feel. It actually does making aiming during a fight a chore. Granted you can totally just change them and voila, no more trouble with moving your mouse a lot.
Surgo: I'd say it is, if your escape is defeated by a health pot it does not count.
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