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## Why can't 3.x skill monkeys have nice skills?

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Ice9
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Post by Ice9 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:46 am

Maybe make Profession like Speak Language, or 3.0 Perform. For a point in Profession, you're a journeyman. Two points, you're a master. If you put a bunch of points in it, you'll be good in a lot of areas.
Also, synergy bonuses to lots of things - Disguise, Knowledge, Gather Information, Appraise, and so forth, depending on the professions in question.
Last edited by Ice9 on Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TarkisFlux
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Post by TarkisFlux » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:17 am

I pretty much got to the 2 skill endurance/concentration solution this evening, splitting the autohypnosis and concentration uses up. Cause more skills is just with the system needs... It could work pretty well, I just don't know if it's worth bolting a new skill on.
A though on Speak Language:
Rank 6 uses: Quick Study - You no longer select new languages when you put skill points in Speak Language. Instead, when confronted with a language you do not already speak you make a check to learn it. DC based on length of time spent listening, rarity of language, etc (TBD). Retries at reasonable periods, so long as you are still exposed, until you succeed.
Ice9, do you want professions to grat synergy bonuses? Like profession (shopkeeper) gives synergy bonuses to appraise, gather info, bluff, sense motive, etc? Really? That sounds like an excercise in multiplying the benefit of your skill points, and like it would do bad RNG stuff. It doesn't affect access to skill abilities, but over-reliability and auto-success becomes a valid concern with unlimited use stuff like this...
Last edited by TarkisFlux on Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Talisman
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Post by Talisman » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:59 am

I'd be inclined to stay away from synergy bonuses, with the possible exception of Profession. Skills are already easy to max out to ridiculous heights, and these expansions only make them more valuable. Synergy bonuses gild the lily, IMO. Now, if my Profession (sailor) gave me a synergy bonus on Survival (finding edible seaweed), that makes sense and gives me a reason to care about Profession.

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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:32 pm

I was just looking through my 3.0 PHB on unrelated business, and a found a piece of text that blew my mind.
From page 61:

> Practically Impossible Tasks
> Sometimes you want to do something that seems practically impossible. In general, to do something that's practically impossible requires that you have at least rank 10 in the skill and entails a penalty of -20 on your roll or +20 on the DC (which amounts to about the same thing).
> Practically impossible tasks are hard to delineate ahead of time. They're the accomplishments that represent incredible, almost logic-defying skill and luck. Picking a lock by giving it a single, swift kick; swimming up a waterfall; or softening a demon's heart with a song are potential examples of practically impossible tasks.
> The DM decides what is actually impossible and what is merely practically impossible. Just remember that characters with very high skill modifiers are capable of accomplishing incredible, almost unbelievable tasks, just as characters with very high combat bonuses are.

Holy crap! Right there, we are outright told that skill masters are supposed to be able to improvise credibility-straining coolness within their expertise, beginning as early as level 7. Now, the section is a cop-out, since it's basically entirely managed at DM discretion, and the examples are muddy at best. Nevertheless, I am stunned that I never registered this before, nor have I ever heard of anyone using it.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:43 pm

Did you start playing (D&D 3.x, of course) after the Joke Book was launched? Because it essentially totally contradicts this, and I suspect that's a large part of the reasons why it doesn't register, for example, in Internet discussion. And: Magical Teaparty (though yes, it was good that it was a nod to making fantasy characters looking fantastic) ...

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:32 am

Here's some old houserules that may be relevant to your interests:

> Revisions to the 3.5 D&D Skills for Josh’s Campaign.
> (These are based upon the 3.5 SRD and ideas discussed in the TPN project)
> **Appraise**
> New Use for Appraise:
> Identify an ability of a magic item DC =15 + caster level of that ability.
> **Autohypnosis***
> Unchanged from the System Reference Document - included here for ease of refrence.
> (Wis; Trained Only)
> Check: The DC and effect depend on the task attempted.
> Task DC
> Resist fear 15
> Memorize 13
> Ignore caltrop wound 13
> Tolerate poison Poison’s DC
> Willpower 15
> Resist Fear: In response to a fear effect, the character can make an Autohypnosis check on his or her next round even if overcome by fear. A successful check grants another saving throw with a +4 morale bonus to resist the fear effect.
> Memorize: The character can attempt to memorize a long string of numbers, a long passage of verse, or other particularly difficult piece of information (but can’t memorize magical spells or similarly exotic scripts). Each successful check allows the character to memorize up to 800 words (or strange sigils or numbers that would fill one piece of regular parchment, though multiple checks allow the character to remember multiples of 800). A character always retain this information; however, he or she can only recall it with another successful Autohypnosis check.
> Ignore Caltrop Wound: If the character is wounded by stepping on a caltrop, his or her speed is reduced to one-half of normal. A successful Autohypnosis check removes this movement penalty for a period of 10 minutes. The wound doesn’t go away—it is just ignored through self-persuasion.
> Tolerate Poison: In response to being poisoned, the character can make an Autohypnosis check on his or her next action. A successful check grants a +4 morale bonus on the saving throw to resist the poison’s secondary damage.
> Willpower: If reduced to 0 hit points (staggered), the character may make an Autohypnosis check. If successful, he or she can take a normal action while at 0 hit points without taking 1 point of damage. The character must make a check for each strenuous action taken. A failed willpower check carries no penalties other than failure—the character can choose not to take that strenuous action. If the character does so anyway, he or she drops to –1 hit points.
> Retry: See above.
> ** Balance **
> Extensions to existing DC table:
> Balance on a surface as if weightless (this allows you to walk over snow without leaving footprints or stride on rice paper without tearing it) DC 25
> Balance on a wire, thread or other surface too small to see DC 30
> Balance on water or other liquid DC 45
> Balance on gaseous, incorporeal or ethereal substances: DC 60
> Surface moving (such as a log in a stream) +5*
> Surface moving rapidly or highly erraticly (such as on top of a runaway carraige) +5*
> *these are cumulative with each other and the other DC modifiers. All modifiers also apply to the DCs for new uses for balance:
> New Uses for Balance
> Change direction once while taking the run or charge action: DC 35. Failure means you cease moving instead of changing direction. Failure by 5 or more means you fall, becoming prone.
> Change direction an additional time while running or charging: DC 30 + 10 for each previous turn made during the run or charge. (Thus the first turn is DC 35, the second DC 40, the third DC 50, the fourth DC 60, etc)
> Special: A character with 5 or more ranks in balance may choose to be considered a prone defender (whether he is actually prone) or not (even if he is prone) against any attack when he takes the total defense action ("Whoa."). A charater with 10 or more ranks in balance may choose to be considered a prone defender or not against any attack when he takes the fight defensively action (or uses the Combat Expertise Feat). A character with 15 or more ranks in balance may chose to be considered a prone defender or not against any attack.
> ** Climb **
> Changes and exetensions to existing DC Table:
> Climb a smooth, flat vertical surface, such as polished marble: DC 30
> Climb on an overhang or ceiling without handholds: DC 35
> Surface moving (such as the side of a ship) +5*
> Surface moving rapidly or highly erraticly (such as climbing the side of an enraged purple worm) +5*
> *these are cumulative with each other and the other DC modifiers. All modifiers also apply to the DCs for new uses for Climb:
> New Uses for Climb:
> Evasive Climbing: If you take a -10 penalty on Climb tjecks, you may retain your dexterity bonus while climbing.
> Climb out of a Web, Solid Fog or similar spell: DC = 25 + Spell level.
> Escape from an Imprisonment Spell DC 75. This can only be attempted once, on the round after the spell is cast upon you. If a successful you escape from the spell in a mere 1d4 rounds.
> ** Craft **
> New Use for Craft:
> This skill now allows people to qualify for Item Creation Feats. You may substitute a number of skill ranks equal to 3+the required caster level to be able to select an Item Creation Feat and use it to create magic items related to that craft skill. When creating items, you automatically satisfy any caster level requirement that is 3 less than your ranks in a relevant Craft. You must still fulfill all other requirements to create magic items, and you may only create magic items which are relevant to Craft skills you possess. Thus a character with 9 ranks in Craft(weaponsmithing) could select Craft Magic Arms and Armor and could craft a +2 longsword with it, but unless he had a caster level of 5 or ranks in Craft(armorsmith) he could not make a +2 shield; nor could he make a +1 Keen longsword unless he had access to Keen Edge.
> ** Decipher Script **
> New Uses for Decipher Script:
> Detect Forgery: You may use you Decipher Script skill in place of your Forgery to detect a forged document.
> Decipher Magical Text: If you succeed at a DC 20 + spell level Decipher Script tjeck, you may identify written spell (such as a scroll). One try per day. Requires a full-round action.
> ** Escape Artist **
> New Uses for Escape Artist
> Move Through a Solid Fog or Acid Fog at full speed: DC 45
> Move through a Wall of Thorns at full speed without taking damage: DC 50
> Pass Through an Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, a Wall of Force or similar effect: DC 60
> Escape from an Imprisonment Spell DC 75. This can only be attempted once, on the round after the spell is cast upon you. If a successful you escape from the spell in a mere 1d4 rounds.
> ** Forgery**
> New Use for Forgery:
> You may now use forgery to fake items other than writings and documents. You could forge a lost crown, a famous painting or furniture from a royal dynasty. To make such a forgery generally also requires an appropriate Craft skill tjeck. If you have 5 or more ranks in a relevant knowledge skill for the item you are counterfitting you gain a +2 synergy bonus to such attempts. This type of Forgery is opposed by the examiner’s Appraise tjeck, but otherwise uses the pre-existing forgery conditions and modifiers
> ** Heal **
> New Uses For Heal:
> Rapid Care:
> Heal patient a full day’s worth of natural healing to HP or ability scores with only ten minutes of care: DC 25 (counts against normal daily natural healing)
> Heal patient of HP or ability score damage as if he had undergone 24 hours of bedrest in one round: DC 45 (counts against normal daily natural healing)
> If you use Rapid Care in conjunction with Long-Term care, the patient recovers the amount listed under the rapid care option in the indicated time frame and then recovers the other half of the doubled rate over the period of long-term care.
> Cure Adverse Conditions:
> Heal may now be used to treat, cure, reduce or remove a number of adverse conditions which can affect a patient. Each condition requires a seperate tjeck and treating a condition does not prevent it from re-occuring (If you successfully Treat Nasuea on a character within a Stinking Cloud, they may still become Nasueated again on their next action). Note that some conditions can be treated more quickly at a higher DC.
> Cure patient of Stun rounds: DC 30 + number of accumulated stun rounds. Doing so requires a standard action
> Reduce Fear Effects (panicked to frightened, or frightened to shaken) DC 30. Doing so requires a standard action, each success reduces the severity of the patient’s fear condition. A single success could reduce a patient from Panicked to Frightened or from Frightened to Shaken. Two successful uses could reduce a patient from Panicked to Shaken or from Frightened to not suffering any fear effects.
> Revive a dead patient: DC 45 + 1 for every round patient has been dead. This requires 10 minutes of treatment (determine the DC by counting the number of rounds until treatment began) The patient becomes stable at -9 HP on successful tjeck.
> Cure Paralysis with 10 minutes of treatment: DC 30
> Cure Blindness with 10 minutes of treatment: DC 35
> Cure Deafness with 10 minutes of treatment: DC 35
> Treat Nasusea: DC 30. Doing so requires a standard action and leaves the patient still Sickened.
> Cure Sickened patient: DC 30. Doing so rquires a standard action.
> Treat Exhaustion: DC 25. Doing so requires 10 minutes of care and leaves the patient still Fatigued.
> Cure Petrification: DC 55 Doing so requires 8 hours of care
> Treat Negative Levels: DC 35+number of accumulated negative levels. Doing so requires 10 minutes of care and on a successful tjeck and on a successful tjeck, the patient will automatically succeed on his or her save(s) to remove the negative level(s)
> Additional New Uses for Heal:
> Reattach severed Limb to patient: DC 45 Doing so requires 8 hours of care.
> Rebuild missing limb for patient DC 50. Doing so requires 8 hours of care.
> ** Intimidate **
> This skill now also leads troops.
> New Use for Intimidate:
> Rally Troops: You may use intimidate to counter fear effects generated by others. To do so, you make a normal intimidate tjeck. All allies within 5’ of you who are currently suffering from a fear effect gain a new saving throw against that fear effect, using your Intimidate tjeck result in place of their saving throw. If you take a -5 your tjeck, you may rally all allies within 30’; If you take a -10 to this tjeck, you may rally all allies within 100”; If you take a -20’ to this roll, you may rally all allies within earshot.
> ** Jump **
> Change to the 3rd paragraph of the Jump Skill:
> “All Jump DCs given here assume that you get a running start,....
> . If you do not get a running start, theDC for the jump is increased by 10.
> Change to existing use for Jump:
> <Replace the rules for Jumping Down with the following:>
> Jumping Down: If you intentionally jump from a height, you take less damage than you would if you just fell. The base DC to jump down from a height is 15. You do not have to get a running start to jump down, so the DC is not doubled if you do not get a running start.
> If you succeed on the tjeck, you take falling damage as if you had dropped 10 fewer feet than you actually did. For every 5 points your check exceeds this DC by, your fall is treated as an additional 10 feet shorter. Thus a jump tjeck result of 20 reduces the damage you take as if your drop was 20’ shorter than it actually was, a jump tjeck result of 25 reduces damage as if your drop was 30’ shorter and so on. This reduction in damage is cumulative with any reduction in falling damage due to Tumble.
> New uses for Jump:
> Flying Tackle: A flying tackle is a manuver which allows you to exceed your normal maximum movement rate by jumping, but leaves you prone afterwards. You may make a flying tackle at the end of any move action (including movement used for a charge). Doing so is just like attempting a long jump, but the DC is increased by +10. If successful, you may add your long jump movement to your distance moved, and this distance does not count against your maximum movement in a round. Whether successful or not, you end up prone after attempting a flying tackle.
> Slip the Surly Bonds of Earth: If you succeed at a DC 50 Jump tjeck, you may , as a move action, fly at good manuverability for a distance equal to your base speed. You may not begin any such flight movement if already airborne, and thus must land somewhere before attempting another such tjeck.
> ** Perform **
> <replace the first three paragraphs of the Perform skill description and the list below it in the 3.5 PHB with the following:>
> Perform is actually a number of separate skills. Each of the three categories of the Perform skill includes a variety of methods, instruments, or techniques, a small list of which is provided for each category below. For purposes of character description, you are strongly encouraged to invent more specific instances within each category of Perform.
> • Vocal - this includes performances which require your voice such as singing, joke-telling oratory, storytelling and so forth. You may make a Perform (vocal) tjeck even when your hands are full or bound but you may not make a Perform (vocal) tjeck when you are gagged, in a silence effect or using your voice for something else.
> • Physical - this includes performances which require you hands and body, such as juggling, dancing, mime, hambone and so forth. You may make a Perform (physical) tjeck when you are gagged or otherwise prevented from using your voice, but you may not make a Perform(physical) tjeck when your are bound, grappling, held, paralyzed or using you hands for something else.
> • Instrument - this includes performances which require you to play some type of instrument, such as accodians, flutes, harmonicas, drums, and so forth. Depending on the type of instrument, you may be able to play it while gagged or denied a voice (such as a harpsichord) or you may be able to play it while you are restricted in movement (such as a harmonica held at the ready). You may not make a Perform(instrument) tjeck if you do not have an appropriate instrument handy.
> ** Stabilize Self **
> Unchanged from the System Reference Document - included here for ease of refrence.
> (Con; Trained Only)
> Use this skill to keep from succumbing to a mortal wound.
> Check: A character can attempt to subconsciously prevent him or herself from dying. If the character has negative hit points and are losing hit points (at 1 per round, 1 per hour, or 1 per day), he or she can substitute a Stabilize Self check (DC 15) for his or her first normal stabilization roll to become stable. If successful, the character regains no hit points, but does stop losing them. If the first Stabilize Self check is unsuccessful, the character goes back to making normal stabilization checks each round.
> ** Swim **
> New Use for Swim:
> Accelerated Swimming: You can attempt to swim more quickly than normal. By accepting a -5 penalty to your tjeck, you may move half your speed as a move action.
> Special: A character with 5 or more ranks in Swim is never treated as Off Balance when fighting underwater. (See Table 3-22) A charcter with 10 or more ranks in Swim does not suffer the usual -2 attack penalty when attacking with a slashing or bludgeoning melee weapon underwater (but still suffers the reduced damage). A character with 15 or more ranks in Swim does not suffer any attack or damage penalties for melee attacks when fighting underwater (ranged attack penalties still apply normally).
> ** Tumble **
> Changes and Extensions to existing DC table:
> Tumble DC -- Task
> 15 -- Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter for purposes of determining damage. For each additional 5 points by which you make this tjeck, you may treat the fall as if it were an additional 10’ shorter. This is cumulative with the Jumping Down use of the Jump Skill
> 30 -- Move 10’ using the “Take 5-Foot Step” miscellaneous action
> ** Use Magic Device **
> Clarification: You may not use Emulate a Class Feature to mimic the expenditure of a limited uses/day ability, although you can still use items that require you to have such an ability.

Feel free to swipe, modify or ignore for your purposes.
Last edited by Josh_Kablack on Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:39 am

Ignore?
Heh, Stabilize Self shows you at least got near a 3.0 Psionics Handbook (a trauma in its own right). Also, I'm not entirely sure what you did to UMD.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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MfA
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Post by MfA » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:28 am

UMD + Phylactery of Undead Turning allows you to set your turning level through the following rule :
"In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20."
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:37 pm

> MfA wrote:UMD + Phylactery of Undead Turning allows you to set your turning level through the following rule :
> "In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20."

Is the point that you could have an abnormally high turning level, or that you could gain a turning you didn't have from the item?

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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TarkisFlux
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Post by TarkisFlux » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:27 pm

I dunno Bigode, Josh's Intimidate gave me an idea. It's like Rally, but more amusing...
Redirect Fear: When an ally is subject to a fear effect, you can remind them that you're worse. Their fear drops to shaken (or is removed if they were only shaken), and they become afraid of you instead of the original target of their fear.
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org
Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
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MfA
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Post by MfA » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:35 am

Bigode, depends on your reading. The abnormally high turning levels are the game-breaking part though.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:41 am

> TarkisFlux wrote:I dunno Bigode, Josh's Intimidate gave me an idea. It's like Rally, but more amusing...
> Redirect Fear: When an ally is subject to a fear effect, you can remind them that you're worse. Their fear drops to shaken (or is removed if they were only shaken), and they become afraid of you instead of the original target of their fear.

I was talking more about the name at the time - one might assume that several skills might include more than 1 old skill, and even if most doesn't, Intimidate's getting new stuff grafted. As for redirect fear: I'm not sure, doesn't seem like the kinda thing conducive to PC alliance ...

> MfA wrote:Bigode, depends on your reading. The abnormally high turning levels are the game-breaking part though.

The problem is: I don't think the item could bestow the ability on its own even without that houserule (you could simulate a higher turning level, but couldn't actually use it), and I don't think the text above actually cuts the high level off (since you can still emulate being higher level and add 4).

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:48 pm

The UMD clarifiction prevents you from using UMD to activate items which require you to expend a turning use as part of their activation. (as the Divine feats in Complete Divine do)
If I had touched 3rd ed within the past year, I would be able to give you a better example of what the potential problem was.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:05 pm

> Josh_Kablack wrote:The UMD clarifiction prevents you from using UMD to activate items which require you to expend a turning use as part of their activation. (as the Divine feats in Complete Divine do)
> If I had touched 3rd ed within the past year, I would be able to give you a better example of what the potential problem was.

Hell, I the problem itself's readily understandable, but I didn't remember any such items existing. Remember some?

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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TarkisFlux
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Post by TarkisFlux » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:28 pm

On second thought, it should just eliminate the shaken and frightened conditions, and reduce panicked to shaken. It doesn't have the same mechanical oomph as Remove Fear and it's certainly less ideal, but it doesn't have a resource cost or limited duration either.

> Bigode wrote:As for redirect fear: I'm not sure, doesn't seem like the kinda thing conducive to PC alliance ...

It's almost certainly not conducive to PC alliance, but you're basically turning an offensive ability against them to counter another. Shooting them in the leg to distract them from their shoulder wound you might say. The skill boils down to scaring people, and I can't think of a reason that sort of thing should be conducive to PC alliance. As long as the ability is effective and distinct from spells I'm comfortable with it; the party infighting that may result afterward can be safely laughed at as far as I'm concerned. Separate remove fear abilities could easily be offered through diplomacy (as part of a more general calm emotions type effect) or through concentration (as part of the auto-hypnosis thefts) that are more conducive to PC alliances and are more effective at discharging it.
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Post by Bigode » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:36 am

> TarkisFlux wrote:It's almost certainly not conducive to PC alliance, but you're basically turning an offensive ability against them to counter another. Shooting them in the leg to distract them from their shoulder wound you might say. The skill boils down to scaring people, and I can't think of a reason that sort of thing should be conducive to PC alliance. As long as the ability is effective and distinct from spells I'm comfortable with it; the party infighting that may result afterward can be safely laughed at as far as I'm concerned. Separate remove fear abilities could easily be offered through diplomacy (as part of a more general calm emotions type effect) or through concentration (as part of the auto-hypnosis thefts) that are more conducive to PC alliances and are more effective at discharging it.

I wouldn't compare that to the shot because the shots stack into a worse situation. Yeah, scaring people isn't conducive to alliance, which's why it's likely best to avoid having it turned on PCs instead of enemies. Real infighting, if it happens (which it honestly shouldn't, but often does), isn't at all trivial to laugh off. And besides, think about it: Intimidate as-is may produce either a fear effect or an attitude change. However: the use you suggest lowers fear effects' intensity and's almost definitionally used on already Friendly or Helpful targets, so you could call it a function of leadership that makes people less afraid so they can fight (BTW, even the bully'd want the minions to fight ideally without penalty), and leave flavoring it as "I'm worse, actually" to individual uses.
Last edited by Bigode on Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Post by TarkisFlux » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:45 am

> Bigode wrote:Yeah, scaring people isn't conducive to alliance, which's why it's likely best to avoid having it turned on PCs instead of enemies. Real infighting, if it happens (which it honestly shouldn't, but often does), isn't at all trivial to laugh off. And besides, think about it: Intimidate as-is may produce either a fear effect or an attitude change. However: the use you suggest lowers fear effects' intensity and's almost definitionally used on already Friendly or Helpful targets, so you could call it a function of leadership that makes people less afraid so they can fight (BTW, even the bully'd want the minions to fight ideally without penalty), and leave flavoring it as "I'm worse, actually" to individual uses.

I agree that actual infighting does happen but generally shouldn't (having actually ran games that devolved into infighting fests is not a happy memory), but my suggestion that it could be laughed off was based on the fact that it is an improvement over any of the conditions it would cure for others and fighting over how you were healed of a debilitating condition is particularly silly. If we want to reflavor it or remove the user as the new target of the effect, that's fair (it removes the image of a drill sergeant or raging barb making threats at cowards from my brain, but meh).
While the bully would want them to fight without penalty and the effect is just competing with a level 1 spell, I don't know that it's a good option given the lack of resource cost and yet undefined duration. Since my search for fear effects that actually last longer than the 10 minutes Remove Fear is turning up nothing, I may have to abandon that position...
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Post by Bigode » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:52 am

> TarkisFlux wrote:(it removes the image of a drill sergeant or raging barb making threats at cowards from my brain, but meh)

The thing is: I don't think it does. That's flavor (hell, let's include it as a possible flavor in the description, but not the sole or main one, if there happens to be main) - you can do whatever makes sense, and threats do indeed, just best to keep them down between PCs.

> TarkisFlux wrote:While the bully would want them to fight without penalty and the effect is just competing with a level 1 spell, I don't know that it's a good option given the lack of resource cost and yet undefined duration. Since my search for fear effects that actually last longer than the 10 minutes Remove Fear is turning up nothing, I may have to abandon that position...

Regardless of last sentence, it can simply require a higher result - in fact, my idea was setting how many degrees of fear you can remove by the result (BTW, should it be graduated, or should one have to specify a DC and fail completely if failing to achieve it?).

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Post by TarkisFlux » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:00 am

/shrug. Fair enough on the flavor.
I briefly kicked around a graduated result (CL or DC +2 for one fear level, +5 for 2 levels, +10 for all, or something) but didn't spend long with it; working on bluff, appraise, and diplomancy right now.
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Post by TarkisFlux » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:02 am

Time to post stuff I'm stuck on...
Appraise:
Appraise still isn't awesome, but it at least scales and remains relevant over all levels. It doesn't supplant any Tome abilities or feats I can find. It sorta supplants the Appraise Magic Value feat from Comp Adventurer, but a minor adjustment to the feat or skill would sort that if anyone cared.
Untrained Uses:
Appraise Common Items – When you’re out shopping, it’s nice to not be ripped off by the merchants. If you spend 1 minute examining an item, you can appraise common or familiar goods and objects. You can not appraise uncommon, rare, or exotic items untrained. The DC for this check is 10, and the check is made by the DM so you don’t know if you’re wrong. If you fail, you guess that the item is 50% to 150% (2d6+3 times 10%) of its actual value. Yes, this means you can fail the check but still get the price right.
Rank 1 Uses:
Appraise Anything – You know what you’re looking for, and have a fair idea of what almost anything is worth. In addition to common items, you can also appraise uncommon, rare, exotic, and one-of-a-kind items; the DC for this check is set by the DM: uncommon items should have a DC no higher than 15 and rare or exotic mundane items should have a DC no higher than 20 in general. You may also appraise magical items; the DC for these is 12 + the caster level needed to create the item. A successful appraisal doesn’t mean you know what it is of course, just that you have an approximate idea of its value and power level.
Some items, like artifacts or jewelry pieces with high emotional value to wealthy kings, are fundamentally un–appraisable and likely to return a completely wrong objective measure of their worth. These should be rare; otherwise this skill is worth considerably less and you should petition your DM to allow you to completely reallocate all of the skill points you spent here. The ability to appraise common goods is simply not meaningful after you stop dealing in them, and that’s what you may be left with.
Rank 6 Uses:
Eye for Magic – If you succeed on your appraise check by 2 or more you know if the item is magical, unless it is an artifact, in which case you still don’t know what it’s worth or that it’s magical.
Rank 8 Uses:
Identify Magic Items – You’ve learned enough about items that you can identify them fairly accurately as well. If you succeed on your appraise check by 5 or more, you can spend an hour to fully identify a magical item. You are unable to identify artifacts in this fashion.
Rank 14 Uses:
Enhance Object – ... ...
I can’t think of a way to write this that makes mechanical sense, but I’m also not particularly familiar with Tome special materials. I set it at this level so that it’s slightly after wish economy, when the materials probably become available, but someone else who knows more about them should really do something with it.
Book of Gears Adjustment: If you’re using Book of Gears material, the DC to identify a magic item is 20 – Item caster level and can be attempted untrained. Eliminate the rank 6 ability.
and Bluff:
Feint was left out because it's a well defined combat action already. Cleaned up the various divination foils, using a unified SR style mechanic for all of them.
Untrained Uses:
Combat Distraction – If you just need to buy yourself a moment to escape, it’s hard to beat the old “Hey, what’s that behind you!” The DC for this bluff check is equal to your opponent’s perception or melee attack bonus (whichever is higher) +10. On a successful check, you may take one unwatched move action. Your bluff lasts just long enough for you to hide nearby or get a running head start, and those can be invaluable if you have to escape. Anyone that you distract with this ability does not threaten you during your move action, but they are not considered flat footed and retain their Dex bonuses to AC. If you are facing multiple attackers, you must generally beat the highest DC or the check is a failure as someone will observe the action you take.
Innuendo – Words can mean different things to different people, and you can use that to pass secret messages to others during public conversations. With a DC 15 bluff check you can get simple messages across; complex messages or messages with new information require a DC 20 bluff check. Failing this check by 4 or less means that no information was passed, but failing by 5 or more indicates that incorrect information was passed.
Lie – You generally want people to believe what you tell them, especially if it isn’t the truth. Your bluff check is a measure of how good a lie you’ve told; you gain a modifier to your check based on the content of the lie. To detect your lie, targets must exceed your bluff check with a perception check of their own; if they don’t exceed your check result they have no reason to suspect that you are lying and believe what you have told them.
Rank 4 uses:
Improved Feint – You can feint as a move-equivalent action. If you wait until next round to attack the target, they are only flat-footed against your next attack even if you take a full attack action.
Rank 8 uses:
Liar’s Aura – There are many situations where you don’t want people to be able to detect your ethical leanings, because they would probably put your head on a spike. Anytime you are subject to a spell or effect that would interact with your alignment (such as Detect Good, Protection from Evil, or Blasphemy), the caster must succeed on a caster level check (DC 5 + your Bluff modifier). If they fail this check you can choose to be treated as having either your natural alignment or a Neutral alignment. You must make this decision before you know what the effects of the spell are. If they succeed on the check you are treated as having your natural alignment. This is a reflexive ability that does not use an action. It occurs without your character’s knowledge.
You can also take a more active role in modifying your alignment. With a DC 25 bluff check you can set your alignment to whatever you’d like; this check is made secretly by the DM so you don’t know if you succeed or fail. Masking your alignment in this way requires one minute of concentration, but once set it remains for 24 hours or until you lose consciousness, whichever comes first. When you are subject to effects that interact with alignment, you are treated as having the alignment you chose if the caster fails at their check. Magic items are also fooled by your new alignment, and will function as if this was your natural alignment.
Rank 10 uses:
False Thoughts – It is generally bad for your health to show the thought police what you actually think of them. Whenever you are subject to a spell or effect that would give another access to your thoughts or memories, the caster must make a caster level check (DC 5 + your bluff modifier). If they fail, they gain access to a false set of thoughts or memories, made up on the spot by your well trained sub-conscious mind. These thoughts and memories are sufficient to distract a casual invader, but they do not hold up to close scrutiny. For each minute that they eavesdrop on your mind, the caster is allowed a new caster level check; they gain a cumulative +2 bonus on this check each time beyond the first. This is a reflexive ability that does not use an action. It occurs without your character’s knowledge.
With a bit of effort, you can construct a very specific set of thoughts that does stand up to scrutiny. If you spend a full minute in concentration and succeed on a DC 28 bluff check, you can craft a more coherent set of false thoughts, making it harder for eavesdroppers to break through. You decide what thoughts will occupy your false mind; as long as these thoughts are expected or relevant for the person eavesdropping they do not get to make any checks beyond the first. Additionally, you can set your apparent intelligence score to any number 3 through 18, so that anyone detecting your mental abilities detects this apparent mental state.
Rank 12 uses:
Not the One You’re Looking For – You can already lie about most things that would give you away, and now you can even lie about being ‘you’ in a deep, fundamental sense. You can trick scry sensors and location divinations into ignoring you. If you are targeted by a scrying spell or other sensor that allows a save, you may choose instead to make a Bluff check at -5. If your check exceeds the save DC, the sensor is unable to detect you. If you like you can even choose for it to follow someone else around.
Against other location divinations, many of which allow neither save nor spell resistance, the spell’s caster must succeed on a caster level check that exceeds 5 + your Bluff modifier to locate you. If they do not succeed on this check the spell does not return a result. Like other divination foiling Bluff abilities, this occurs reflexively, without your character’s knowledge, and does not use an action.
[Edit 1] Diplomacy
Stealing Iaimeki's diplomacy pretty much entirely, because it works well. Added in separate modifiers for haggling that attempt to incorporate the appraise skill, but I'm concerned that it's too complicated for the relatively minor. The last ability in here, "Just this one favor" was originally intended to be a suggestion ability, but since new diplomacy is basically a suggestion ability I don't know if it's necessary.
Untrained Uses:
Haggle – As Iaimeki’s Diplomacy in the Tome. You accept a -2 penalty for trying to reduce the price of an item by 10%, this penalty doubles for each additional 10% reduction you ask from the offered price. If you believe you know what the value of the item is (from an Appraise check), you take the penalty for reductions from the actual value of the item or what you believe the value of the item to be, whichever is greater.
Reach an Agreement – As Iaimeki’s Diplomacy in the Tome.
Rank 6 Uses:
Let’s Not Be Hasty – Sometimes people try to stab you before you can give them a reason not to. With just a moment, you can delay a hostile creature from attacking you. As a standard action, you can make a diplomacy check opposed by 1d20 + your opponent’s level + their Chr modifier. If you succeed, you give your opponents pause and they will not attack before your next turn. If you wish to delay them after that point, you must succeed on the opposed check again on your next turn or give them some other reason not to attack. Any obvious attempt at escape as well as any obviously aggressive action by you or your allies automatically ends this effect, leaving your attackers free to do as they like.
Rank 8 uses:
Seriously Likeable – A smile and kind word from you can melt even the coldest heart. With a successful diplomacy check (the same opposed check as described in Iaimeki’s work) you positively change the attitude of your target by one step. For each 5 points that you exceed their check by, you can shift their attitude one additional step. In no case can you shift a person’s attitude beyond helpful. This action requires 1 minute (10 full round actions), though it can be rushed. You can affect no more people than your ranks in diplomacy at one time.
This shift is a natural shift in attitude, and is not enforced by anything. If you mistreat or disappoint a person while their attitude has been changed, they are likely to respond more negatively than before. Even if you don’t mistreat the person, their attitude will likely revert back to its original level unless you spend time earning it.
You may not retry this check during the same encounter, but you may use it on someone multiple times over multiple meetings. It is very difficult, however, to repeat the effect and make progress with someone you have previously used this ability on. After the initial time you use this on a person, they are treated as Hostile for purposes of this check (though their actual attitude towards you may be different).
Rank 10 Uses:
Voice of Serenity – Your voice can calm a berserker, reassure the fearful, or bring low a soaring spirit. Mechanically this means that you can counter rage effects, fear effects, and morale effects. You can only counter one of these at a time, but you can affect a number of people equal to your diplomacy ranks. Make a diplomacy check as a standard action, opposed by 1d20 + the effect’s save DC (in the case of spells like Fear) or the initiator’s class level + chr modifier (in the case of class abilities like Rage or Inspire Courage). If you succeed, you reduce the effects by one level or suppress half of the bonus, whichever is appropriate. If you succeed by 5 or more you suppress the ability or remove the condition for as long as you continue to use your calming voice. Any ability which is maintained by concentration or action use (such as Inspire Courage), is only suppressed while you are talking and will return as soon as you stop. Abilities that are not maintained, including abilities that once activated are duration based, are altered until the ability is used anew.
Rank 12 uses:
Just This One Favor -
Like I said, not sure this is even necessary anymore...
Relevant thoughts appreciated.
[Edit 2] Bluff rewrites. Didn't like the mechanic, went with a reflexive, SR style thing instead.
Last edited by TarkisFlux on Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by TarkisFlux » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:56 am

Still goin with the social skills...
Intimidation:
Untrained uses:
Intimidate [Fear] – With threats, veiled or overt, you can change another’s behavior. If you have at least one minute to interact with someone, you may make an intimidation check. This check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wis bonus [if any] + target’s relevant descriptor modifiers). If you beat your target’s check result, you may treat the target as friendly, but only for the purpose of actions taken while it remains intimidated. The target retains its normal attitude, but will chat, advise, offer limited help, or advocate on your behalf while intimidated. This effect lasts as long as the target remains in your presence, and for 1d6×10 minutes afterward. After this time, the target’s default attitude toward you shifts to unfriendly (or hostile if they were unfriendly to you at first).
If you fail the check by 5 or more, the target is not scared of you in the least. Rather than accede to your wishes, the target openly mocks you, provides you with incorrect or useless information, or otherwise frustrates your efforts.
Rank 1 Uses:
Shake Resolve [Fear] – With threats, gestures, and posture you can make even the bravest foe cower. As a standard action, you may attempt to make one enemy that you threaten fearful of your combat prowess. You make an Intimidation check opposed by a modified level check (as above). If you succeed, the foe is shaken for 1 round, plus 1 additional round per 2 points that your check exceeded theirs. You may subtract 5 from your result to frighten them instead or 10 from your result to panic them; if you do so the duration of their fright is determined from your new, lower result.
Rank 4 uses:
Redirect Fear - Intimidation is a skill all about making people afraid of you, and sometimes it’s even useful for your own party to fear you. Maybe you threaten them, maybe you just glare, the simple fact is that you can shake your friends free of fear effects. To shock someone free of their fear, you make an intimidation check as a standard action. If you are attempting to break a fear effect from a failed save, your skill DC is equal to the save DC +5, +1 for each person beyond the first that you are attempting to assist. To free four or your friends from a Fear spell, for instance, you would need to exceed the save DC by 8 (5 plus 1 for each person beyond the first). If you are attempting to break the effects of Shake Resolve, an Intimidation ability, you need to match or exceed 10+the bluff modifier of the person who cause the effect.
Rank 8 Uses:
New Orders [Mind-Affecting] – You’ve learned which tones of voice work best to get people to obey you without though. As a standard action, you can make an Intimidation check against your target’s modified level check (as above). You take a penalty to your check based on their attitude (see Diplomacy). If you succeed, they follow one brief (10 words or less) instruction to the best of their ability. They will perform the action for a maximum of 5 rounds, plus 1 round per 2 points that you exceeded their check. After you leave, however, they are allowed a Will save each round (DC = 10 + your Intimidation bonus) to end the effect immediately.
Most targets of this ability have their attitude towards you negatively shifted by the experience, so it is difficult to catch them with it more than once.
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Post by TarkisFlux » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:26 pm

Jump - The abilities need new names, but it's ready for posting in general.
Portions of this have been taken, with permission, from IGTN's redone jump. The improved jump DCs aren't a particularly obnoxious bit of math, but it's probably worth doing a DC table for the less math inclined.
General notes:
Many jump abilities mention a running start. A running start is a movement of 20’ immediately before making the jump check. This movement must be in the same direction as the jump. If you have an ability that allows you to make a turn while taking a run or charge action, only the last 5 feet must be in the same direction as the jump.
Untrained uses:
High Jump – When the wall is more of a razor fence, climbing isn’t as convenient as simply jumping over it. Likewise, you may not have time to climb up to the balcony before the demon hordes overwhelm you. A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead, and is useful in situations like these. The DC to reach a particular height is the height (in feet) multiplied by 4. Creatures also have vertical reach that allows them to grasp significantly higher than their jump check. This reach is shown on the table below. Creatures that are longer than they are tall, like panthers and most quadrupeds, should be treated as one category smaller. As an example, let’s say a medium creature wanted to reach a ledge that was 12 feet up. They would only need a DC 16 jump check to clear 4 feet, the remaining 8 feet they gain with their vertical reach.
If you do not have a running start before you make a high jump you take a -8 penalty to your check. If your base speed is faster than 30 feet, you gain a 1 foot bonus to your result for every 10 feet faster than 30 feet. If your base speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -1 foot penalty to your result for every 5 feet slower than 30 feet.
A high jump check is made as part of a movement or run action. While in the air you travel a horizontal distance equal to half your high jump distance, along the same direction as your running start. You can halve this horizontal distance by accepting a -2 penalty, or eliminate it by accepting a -4 penalty to your jump check. If this horizontal movement would cause you to exceed your movement for the action, you must use another move action or land prone. If you do use an additional move action, you lose the excess jump distance from it but are free to continue your move action after you land. If you did not have a running start, a high jump check is a move action on its own but you do not travel horizontally at all and you always land on your feet.
You may make multiple high jumps as part of a move or run action, so long as the total horizontal distance you move does not exceed your maximum in the round. After the first high jump, each subsequent high jump requires only 5 feet of land movement to count as having a running start. This holds true over multiple rounds as well, so long as you don’t take any action aside from moving or jumping.
Hop Up – Hopping up onto a counter or table is a special case of the high jump, and is often used in bar fights to get up on tables for a quick height advantage. The DC to hop up onto any object between knee and waist high is 10. Like the high jump, this vertical movement is free, but you do still have to have the movement to step onto the surface. This special hop does not require a running start, and does not benefit from one.
Long Jump – Pits and moats are meant to be overcome as well, and if you can jump them it’s easy to ignore them and more on. A long jump is a horizontal jump useful for bypassing these sorts of hazards. The DC to clear a particular distance is equal to the distance in feet. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more you land standing on the other side, otherwise you land prone and must spend a move action to stand up. If you fail your check by 5 or less, you can make a DC 15 reflex save to grab the ledge. See the Pull Up athletics ability for information on getting up from there.
If you do not have a running start before you make a long jump you take a -8 penalty to your check. If your base speed is faster than 30 feet, you gain a 1 square (5 foot) bonus to your result for every 10 feet faster than 30 feet. If your base speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -1 square penalty to your result for every 10 feet slower than 30 feet.
A long jump may be part of a move action, or it may be a move action on its own. If your long jump distance is greater than your regular base move, it uses a move action on its own. You may split a separate move action in the round, allowing you to move both before and after your jump. If your long jump distance is less than your base move, the long jump is included in your move action and counts as normal movement. After you land a long jump, you may make additional long jumps as if you had a running start without making additional land movement. This holds true over multiple rounds as well, so long as you don’t take any action aside from moving or jumping. You may only make one jump per round that exceeds your base move.
At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance. You may reduce this height to one-eighth of the horizontal distance by taking a -4 penalty, or eliminate the horizontal distance entirely by accepting a -8 penalty to your jump check.
Rank 1 uses:
Landing – As long as your long jump check meets or exceeds the DC needed for your jump, you land on your feet. You must still have movement left over to land on your feet after a high jump.
Rank 6 uses:
Champion High Jumper – The DC for a high jump is reduced to twice the height (in feet) that you wish to clear. This effectively doubles your high jump range.
Rank 8 uses:
IGTN’s Long Jump – The DC for your long jumps is no longer equal to the distance your wish to clear. Determine the DC with the following table:
0-25 Feet : 0-5 Squares : Squares x 4 : Distance x 4 / 5 : DC 0 to 20
26-50 Feet : 6-10 Squares : 10 + Squares x 2 : 10 + Distance x 2 / 5 : DC 21 to 30
51-100 Feet : 11-20 Squares : 20 + Squares : 20 + Distance / 5 : DC 31 to 40
101-200 Feet : 21-40 Squares : 30 + Squares / 2 : 30 + Distance / 10 : DC 41 to 50
201-400 Feet : 41-80 Squares : 40 + Squares / 4 : 40 + Distance / 20 : DC 51 to 60
401+ Feet : 81+ Squares : 50 + Squares / 8 : 50 + Distance / 40 : DC 61+
Rank 10 uses:
IGTN’s High Jump – The DC for your high jumps is no longer equal to twice the height. Instead, Double the height, and determine the DC as if it were a long jump with the table above.
Rank 12 uses:
Distance Long Jumps – There is no limit to the number of Jumps you can make in a round that exceed your base move, though each jump still uses an individual move action. Any round in which you make more than one jump in this fashion you are considered to be running. You may also long jump without first determining the target distance; you simply cross whatever distance your check result indicates.
Rank 14 uses:
Leap of the Heavens – The DC for your high jumps is now equal to the DC for your long jumps. Additionally, you may also make high jumps without first determining the target height; you simply reach whatever height your check result indicates.
Again, critiques welcome.
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IGTN
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Post by IGTN » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:38 am

I didn't do compatibility between my Jump fix and the Monk's abilities; it might be best to just take them out, or adjust them to a distance bonus, or possibly allow the Monk special jump-related abilities.
You could also steal the names from the monk for the Long and High jump; Leap of the Heavens sounds like a good high jump; Leap of the Winds, maybe, for a long jump?
"No, you can't burn the inn down. It's made of solid fire."
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TarkisFlux
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Post by TarkisFlux » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:13 am

Yeah, forgot about the Monk jump bonuses, and the Jump spell tweak, and other random bonuses... it's so much easier when you aren't fundamentally change the way the base skill works...
Should probably convert any non-racial jump bonus to simple bonus distance. Racial bonuses are small and rare enough that I'm not worried about them, plus they might be worth a damn. All double distance abilities would convert to a +8 bonus on the jump check. I don't care enough to go through the books to make sure that covers all of the cases well, but it sounds like a solid start.
Specific Tome fixes for consideration:
Monk: Abundant Leap - All jumps are considered to have a running start. It's not the same as doubling their range like the last ability did, but it's much easier. Plus, it works with source material.
Leap of the Clouds - The monk gains a +10 bonus to his jump checks. This is actually fairly close to boosting his range by 150%, like the DC/5 thing did.
Thief Acrobat: Pole Jump - This is unaffected by the change. It's just here for completeness sake.
Mounted Combat Feat: 14 Ranks - This should probably be limited to only the skill abilities that your mount qualifies for on their own or that you exceed the requirement by 5 ranks on, else your Ride skill becomes extra awesome on it's own. Which might still be ok, probably depends on how the ride skill works out later...
Wicker Armor: Doesn't look like anything needs to be tweaked against Sinister's finalized version.
Meteor Ninja: Meteor Dance - Probably fine
Tiger Monk: Astounding Leap - Change DC adjustment to simple +8 bonus to high jumps.
Tiger Fury - Probably would work with just a regular high jump at this point, where they rise the distance indicated by their check, the target goes a bit higher still and then takes lots of falling damage...
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Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
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TarkisFlux
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Post by TarkisFlux » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:13 am

Adapted in Tali's climb, and rolled swim in as well since the two don't compete and are actually fairly mutually exclusive (who climbs undersea cliffs afterall?). I got rid of that annoying -5 for double speed climb thing and just made it a bonus for rolling better. I tweaked the swim rules, because no one cares about subdual damage on an hourly basis and I wanted fatigue and exhaustion in there instead. I haven't thought about it long enough to know if I like how it turned out, but wanted to post it anyway.
It's more or less a big type of movement skill at this point, under the fan favorite name Athletics. It excludes Jump because that skill isn't mutually exclusive with other skills, even if it does compete with this one in some cases. There's also a couple of cross-country running abilities, because standard run rules are a joke. It should probably be a Con skill now.
It's also really really long...
Athletics
Untrained uses
Climb and Hang – Walls and barriers are meant to be overcome, and it’s often easier to climb over it than smash it down. As a move action, you can make an athletics check to move one-quarter your normal speed up, down, or across a wall or steep incline. A slope is defined as an incline between 45 and 60 degrees, a wall is an incline 60 degrees or greater. The DC for this check is found on the tables below, and modified as appropriate; you can not even attempt to climb walls with a base DC of 30 or greater at this time. If you fail the check by 5 or more, you slip and fall. If you fail by less than 5 you maintain your position but waste your action. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more you may move at half speed instead of quarter. If you take damage exceeding your athletics ranks while climbing, you must immediately make a new check to maintain your position, falling if you fail the check by 5 or more and maintaining your position otherwise.
You need both hands to make any progress while climbing. You may use one hand to steady yourself while attacking or casting a spell with your other hand, but you may not progress up the surface in the same round. You are less able to dodge blows while you are holding on to a wall, and you lose your dexterity bonus while climbing. You can not use a shield while climbing.
If you fall, catching yourself is difficult. The DC to catch yourself while falling past a wall is the wall’s climb DC + 20. The DC to catch yourself while sliding down a slope is the slope’s DC +10. If a friend is beneath you and makes a successful touch attack against you, he can attempt to stop your fall with an athletics check (surface DC + 10). The penalties for failure of this check are the same as any other climb failure.
Creatures with a climb speed get a +8 bonus on this check, and may take 10 regardless of ranks or danger. On a successful check, they move their entire climb speed as a move action.
Pull Up – If you’re hanging on the edge after a jump, or just want to pull yourself up over the ledge of that smooth wall, you do so with a move action and a DC is 15 athletics check. Pulling yourself up uses half of your movement action, standing up finishes the action off.
Swim – Sometimes the moat is too wide or you’ve walked the plank, and water is just one more obstacle to overcome. The swim ability is used to traverse liquids you can’t generally walk on, like water, acid, lava, and other fun things. Each round you are suspended in liquid, you must make an athletics check. The DC is indicated in the table below. If you succeed on the check, you can move one-quarter of your speed as a move action or one-half your speed as a full round action. You can also choose not to move, in which case you tread water as a free action and can take other actions as appropriate. If you fail your check by 4 or less, you must spend a move action to tread water and can make no forward progress this round. If you fail by 5 or more you go underwater and start holding your breath. Fatigued characters suffer a -4 penalty to these checks. Exhausted characters suffer a -8 penalty to these checks, and can make no progress even on a success; they must tread water until they have rested enough to continue on.
For each half hour that you swim, you must succeed on a special swim check. The DC for this check is the DC of the liquid type you’re swimming though +10. If you fail this check, you become fatigued. If you are already fatigued, you become exhausted. Creatures that are immune to fatigue become exhausted if they fail two of these checks in any 2 hour period. Fatigue or exhaustion brought on by swimming is reduced one step with an hour of treading water.
Creatures with a swim speed get a +8 bonus on this check, and may take 10 regardless of ranks or danger. They do not need to make checks to move and always move their full swim speed as a move action. They may make checks to avoid special hazards or perform special maneuvers. They may take a run action with their swim speed.
Rank 4 uses:
Cross Country Runner – You can run for 1 minute per point of your Constitution score. When you have run to that limit, you must make an Athletics check, and an additional one for each additional minute that you run. The DC for this check is 10, + 1 for each check you have made previously during this run. If you fail, you take 1 point of subdual damage, become fatigued, and are reduced to a hustle until you stop, rest for 10 minutes and heal all subdual damage taken from movement. For the purposes of continuing to hustle, this run counts as two hours of hustling.
Once you begin running, you must take a rest equal to the duration of your run (or 10 minutes, whichever is less) before you begin running again. During that break, you may not take more than a single move action. If you begin running again before taking a sufficient break, you pick up your previous run as if you never took a break.
This ability supersedes the standard running rules.
Rank 6 uses:
Brachiation – Swinging by your arms and occasional leg, you can move through tree branches, jungle vines, banquet hall chandeliers, complex monkey bars, etc. at half of your base land speed. You can run and charge at no penalty so long as both of your arms are free. If only one hand is free, you may only take a single move action in this fashion before you have to return to the ground. Aside from the reduced rate, brachiation is treated as regular movement.
Fleet of Foot and Arm – When making an athletics check to determine your climbing or swimming distance, you move one-half of your speed on a successful check and your full speed if you succeed by 5 or more.
Skilled Climber – You no longer lose your Dexterity bonus to AC when climbing.
Rank 8 uses:
Einhander – You only need one hand free to climb walls. You can still progress up a surface in the same round as you use your other hand for a non-climb action. If you use both hands for an action, or you bring a shield to bear, you can not make any progress up the surface for that round.
Run Up Walls – You may move vertically up a wall as part of a run action. You must make a check against the climb DC of the wall you wish to run up it; if you do not have a 20 foot running start directly at the wall you suffer a -1 penalty to your check for each 2 feet you are short. If you succeed on your check, you treat the wall as horizontal distance for this round only. If you finish your move on flat ground, nothing special happens. If your run move would end with you some distance up the wall, you automatically grab the wall at the end of your move and must climb the rest of the distance. If you fail your check, your run action is reduced to a double move, and you move as far up the wall as allowed by that distance.
Torpedo – If you succeed on a swim check by 10, you may take a run action.
Rank 10 uses:
Arms of a Monkey – Your brachiation speed is now equal to your land speed. You may also brachiate with one hand occupied.
Touch of a Gecko – You may attempt to climb surfaces with a base DC of 30 and above. All climbing abilities apply to these
Rank 12 uses:
Run Into the Sunset – You can run for a half hour per point of you Constitution score. When you have run to that limit, you must make an Athletics check, and an additional one after each additional 30 minute period that you run. The DC for this check is 18, + 1 for each check you have made previously during this run. If you fail, you are unable to run any further. You must rest for 8 hours before you can run in this fashion again.
This ability supersedes the standard running rules and the Cross Country Runner ability.
Like always, comments, criticisms, compliments, and cheers welcome.
*Edit - typos and DCs
Last edited by TarkisFlux on Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org
Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
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