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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:56 pm

I've seen a lot of electrical bdsm play, and I've never seen a pro use a shock collar. On the other hand, there are hundreds of youtube videos of random idiots shocking people with collars.
My guess is that because the shock is between the heart and the brain, there is a small but meaningful chance of disrupting heart function – maybe a little, maybe a lot - enough that the cumulative risk just isn't worth it.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:00 pm

Your spine runs through your neck. Running electricity through it is bad. My medical opinion is that shocking yourself in the neck is fucking crazy and you shouldn't do it. When you electrocute your spine, you can potentially cause tetany in any nerve. Some of those are really important.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:05 pm

My completely informal research (Ie, I googled it) shows that it's probably a "better safe than sorry" thing. One did say to be careful to not place electrodes such that electricity will pass through the heart, but basically said that an electrode on a single (but not both) nipple is fine. Another cautioned using dog shock collars on the neck purely because the prongs are often very long, designed for a creature with fur, and have to be tightened to the point of leaving significant marks on the neck for hours or days so that the submissive can't just pull away.
Honestly, it's probably ok in moderation* to use shock collars on the neck, but it's probably better and safer to make a shock collar from a BDSM collar and a couple electroplay electrodes (like these).
*general sex toy caveat here of it's never the best idea to use things outside of their intended purpose, since a lot of the stuff humans get off on can be dangerous outside of specific conditions.
Edit: Trust Frank. Or rather, try to convince your girlfriend to do so.
...hmm... it's possible to rig up a collar that creates a short, but intense buzz with a hyped up oscillator (ie a really powerful bullet vibe), and then use it with electrodes placed in a safer location. The buzz tricks the brain into thinking her neck is getting shocked, while keeping the actual electricity away from the spine.
Last edited by Prak on Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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fectin
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Post by fectin » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:50 pm

Based on a BME degree with a bioelectric focus - you would be okay if nothing went wrong. Unless you've done a detailed analysis of your failure modes though, including they'll the possible tissue circuits, I would also strongly advise against it.
In this case though, I think Frank is mistaken - the exciting effects won't be peripheral tetany from spinal stimulation (which is moderately hard to do by accident), they'll be from vagus nerve stimulation. That's much easier. And while it won't induce random peripheral tetanies, the vagus connects to everything you care about (heart, lungs, brain) and rabdomly stimulating them can seriously mess them up. If you time it juuuuust right, you could probably simulate reentrant stimulation, which causes heart attacks. You can definitely get seizures, and if you're super unlucky, you could strangle to death on your own seized vocal cords. I don't remember where else that crazy nerve goes, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could also get wacky liver/endocrin effects.
But, so long as your cheap dog collar was manufactured and tested to FDA standards you're probably okay.
Good times.

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Maj
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Post by Maj » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:43 am

The appeal of alternative medicine is huge. It promises control over your medical circumstances that allopathic medicine doesn't always offer. My entire family has been screwed over by doctors - most recently Ess, who was in the ER three times before they figured out he was diabetic.
The problem with alternative medicine is that it doesn't always work. And in order to keep the guilt of failure from permeating every fibre of your being, you keep trying. But it continues to not work - until eventually you will reach a point where you need help from the people you believe in the least. At that point, you either overcome your beliefs, or you become victim to them.
On the vaccine thing... Appeals to reason don't always work. And in that case, I recommend an appeal to emotion - this is it.
You can suggest working out an alternate vaccine schedule with the doctor (I did this) for at least the big communicable diseases.
---
As for shock collars, the internet is your friend, and I recommend doing lots of research so something stupid doesn't happen. You can start here {NSFW!!}.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:50 am

Stimulation of the Vagus Nerve can indeed cause arrhythmias. But that's not the only life-requiring nerve running through your neck. There is also, for example, the Phrenic Nerve.
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fectin
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Post by fectin » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:54 pm

That's true. I shared lab space with folks doing work on neuroprostheses for stroke-swallow patients, so the Vagus looms large in my mind, but there are plenty of other exotic ways to die lurking in necks.
Either way, even though you'd probably be fine, the failure modes are mindbogglingly bad.

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:42 am

So I'm aware that I consume a lot of sugar, and seeing as it's not a controlled substance, I'm generally okay with that. I accept that my death will likely be some variety of sugar-related thing*, it's better than many other forms of death, so whatever.
But I thought I'd look into tricking my body by having artificially sweetened stuff - the body might pass on the cravings because it thinks it's getting sugar because "this tastes sweet", or if it's mostly just me really liking the taste and not a proper addiction, then that'll actually solve that.
But I've noticed that Coke Zero and Pepsi Max both cause chest pains. Like, I think it's along the pectoral muscles**, we're not talking about pains in the stomach or gastric issues that go up the throat.
Is this some weird coincidence, or is there actually some link between artificial sweeteners and muscular chest pains? I get that the solution is to just go back to the real thing, but I'm now curious as to why it might be.
*Diabetes or something. It's unlikely to be one of the fat-person ones though.
**Or whatever the muscles are that the boobs attach to.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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erik
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Post by erik » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:24 am

I suspect more than the nasty fake sugars your culprit may be caffeine. Caffeine can cause premature ventricular contractions. I doubt you would feel just one but you may notice the effects of having plenty of them for a lil while since that makes your heart less efficient.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:15 pm

Keep in mind most fake sugars are random shit some idiot licked off his finger in a lab and said "hey, that's sweet, I want more!"
Granted, FDA type organizations have said they're safe for consumption, but they're still weird random chemicals not commonly found in a natural diet* that were discovered because someone slept through the first day of science class.
*Granted, there's probably a lot of stuff we consume that isn't found in a natural diet...
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Maj
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Post by Maj » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:38 pm

There isn't a single sugar substitute that I've found that doesn't give me problems. Even ones claiming to be natural (like stevia and xylitol) are horrid.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:04 pm

Stevia is just shit whether it gives problems or not.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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tussock
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Post by tussock » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:33 am

In endurance training, they warn us off artificial sweeteners. It seems the body's response to a strongly sweet taste is to dump insulin into your system in preparation for the coming sugar load. Making room, if you like.
This causes your normal blood sugars to be deposited as a tiny bit of fat, and also leaves you with low blood sugar for a while, which makes you hungry. This is pretty terrible if you're working or thinking or anything, super-bad for endurance exercise. But food and drink companies love them because they make you consume more. That's profitable for them.
So they're not bad for you, in moderation, they just make you slightly fatter and hungrier at the same time. Oh, and are mildly associated with diabetes. Not known to be causative, the obvious mechanism for action notwithstanding.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
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fectin
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Post by fectin » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:11 am

I have also heard the thing tussock said (specifically, that artificial sweeteners trigger insulin release), from people I trust. Also, diet sodas tend to be about 25% more caffeine.
I found that carbonated water was a surprisingly good substitute. As in, water + bubbles. I also had good luck with just plain water, but the trick there was to always have it nearer to me than soda was, which takes some doing (installed a water cooler in my tiny cubicle). YMMV.
Last edited by fectin on Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:31 am

> fectin wrote: Also, diet sodas tend to be about 25% more caffeine.

And in that moment, diet sodas sounded vaguely appealing.
I have a general distaste for food substitutes. Tofu is a perfectly fine thing on it's own, why make it shit by trying to call it turkey? Sugar is something our bodies actually know what to do with, why consume shitty tasting, less sweet additives just because they have less calories in the same way cardboard has fewer calories than beef?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Nachtigallerator
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Post by Nachtigallerator » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:25 pm

I'm pretty certain the jury is still out on that. It certainly isn't as simple as spreading a vague air of unease about sugar substitutes, so let me speak for the opposition:
First, the alternative hypothesis for the association between artificial sweetener and diabetics is dead simple: Diabetics don't want to have hyperglycaemias because that will kill them[/i], so they use artificial sweetener. That IS a causative relationship (diabetes causes you to eat artificial sweetener) but the other way round.
Secondly, insulin secretion is triggered by a rise in blood sugar level or by a number of intestinal hormones called incretines. Artificial sweetener isn't sugar and doesn't raise your blood sugar level, so that's out. A wikipedia survey tells me that the hunger-increasing effect of sweeteners have been shown in rats, not in humans, and the only listed attempt to demonstrate incretine release by sweeteners in humans have been unsuccessful. I'll see if I can dig up more when I'm not half-asleep.
The one bad thing sugar substitutes definitely can cause is diarrhea.
@Koumei: The possible causes of chest pain make for a very long laundry list of both mortally dangerous and utterly harmless conditions, and I'd probably do more harm then good if I tried to narrow it down over the internet.
I can't think of any that might be exacerbated by sugar, but caffeine does sound possible. If you don't feel it warrants a visit to your GP, you could try switching to decaffeineated coke or stopping other sources of caffeine and see if it reduces the pain.
Last edited by Nachtigallerator on Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:53 pm

I have experience with diabetes just slightly beyond a Wikipedia search, and I have yet to see any evidence demonstrating that sweet tastes -> insulin. Release of insulin/glucagon from the pancreas seems pretty much tied to blood sugar and nothing else.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Eikre
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Post by Eikre » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:11 pm

I haven't been able to find much phenazopyridine in local pharmacies for the past month or so. Only one box, after I paid a second visit to a place after waiting a couple days; presumably they had a restock, but possibly they just found it in the back and threw it on the shelf.
Has there been a shortage, or an FDA thing that cut the supply?
Last edited by Eikre on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:05 pm

> Nachtigallerator wrote:If you don't feel it warrants a visit to your GP

The government is adding a new fee for previously free doctor visits, so the new rule is to always wait until it's an emergency, then go to the ER where it's treated quickly and free.

> you could try switching to decaffeineated coke or stopping other sources of caffeine and see if it reduces the pain.

Given normal Coke, tea, coffee etc. don't cause the problem, I can't see how it'd be caffeine. I can probably just solve this one by going off the diet coke and back to normal.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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fectin
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Post by fectin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:01 am

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9884024
but also
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten ... 0.full.pdf

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Starmaker
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Post by Starmaker » Wed May 07, 2014 5:51 pm

A single spot on my kneecap, less than a cm in diameter, hurts like hell when touched by anything, including pants naturally sliding over the knee when I walk on a flat surface and don't make a conscious effort to take shorter steps. The diagnosis is "tendinitis of the patellar ligament".
I have been taking meloxicam, based on a previous prescription, which didn't seem to help then and doesn't seem to help now. I got prescribed a ketoprofen-based gel (ok, whatever) and a soft orthosis without the ring which I've been strongly recommended to wear for speedy recovery and tear prevention, even - especially - during exercise.
Now, I already have a knee orthosis (with the ring), and, although it actually helped with other ligaments in the past, it only hurt my kneecap further this time. It kept pressing down on the painful spot so that I couldn't walk at all without being in pain, and kept sliding down my leg. The surgeon said "it probably didn't fit / wasn't sized properly", which isn't exactly assuring, because neither I nor the people in the orthosis store know what a proper fit is.
- Can an orthosis help at all? Should I toughen the fuck up when it hurts? It's going to make a 2-week-long hole in my food budget (and can't be returned).
- Anything I can do to speed up healing?
- Fucking [electro]magnets, do they work?
- Are there food additives / meds / devices to wear during exercise that can help prevent further injury? Does eating hyaluronan / chondroitin sulfate help? (Okay, if the jar itself says "is believed to to play a role in cartilage formation and repair", probably not, but it doesn't hurt to ask.)
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed May 07, 2014 6:16 pm

> Starmaker wrote:- Fucking [electro]magnets, do they work?

I am not a Doctor. No.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed May 07, 2014 9:06 pm

Magnets have no effect on tendons.
If you really have tendonitis, you could chug Ibuprofen. That works pretty well. If you have a small area that is painful to the touch, putting on an orthotic device that keeps things from touching it would seem to fix that particular problem.
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Wed May 07, 2014 9:20 pm

Something that might work is a cream/ointment with wintergreen oil in it (I dilute wintergreen with another oil and use that). That shit is seriously effective as a topical pain killer. They put it in commercial products like BenGay and IcyHot. Just be careful with it - one drop is equivalent to a baby aspirin, and your body absorbs it through your skin, so don't use too much. Also, if you are allergic to aspirin, don't use it - the active ingredient is methyl salicylate.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Wed May 07, 2014 9:47 pm

Please do not actually chug ibuprofen. We would like you alive.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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