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## Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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virgil
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### Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by virgil » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:48 am

I'm going to try and post this on the WotC boards to see what they think of it as well, just because I'm a loon.
Arcane Training (General)
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to all saves against spells and spell-like effects. Spellcraft is a class skill for you character.
Warrior Mage (General, Fighter)
Prerequisite: 5+ ranks in Spellcraft, Base Attack Bonus equal to or greater than twice the spell level of the chosen spell
Benefit: When you choose this feat, you gain the ability to cast a single spell of your choice, with a spell level equal to or less than half of your BaB. From then on, you may cast this spell as a sorcerer of a caster level equal level to your BaB, without any arcane spell failure. Your save DCs are based off of your Charisma modifier.
. The number of times per day you can use this spell-like ability is dependent on both your BaB and the spell-level. You may cast 1st through 3rd level spells a number of times per day equal to half your BaB, 4th through 6th level spells equal to a third of your BaB, and 7th through 9th level spells equal to one-fifth your BaB.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each additional time you choose this feat, you much choose a different spell. A fighter may choose this feat as one of his bonus feats for his class.
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PhoneLobster
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by PhoneLobster » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:40 pm

Weak.
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SeanKitty
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by SeanKitty » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:24 pm

Interesting idea, but I'd personally simplify the second feat a little. Instead of overcomplexifying the spells per day, you might just want to assign it as a 1/day effect, and maybe switch the casting stat, as I've never seen a fighter who ever had an effective Charisma score in all my (four) years of playing D&D
It would definately allow for Fighters to take the less-than-likely-to-be-prepared utility spells, like Truestrike, or Haste.
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Username17
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by Username17 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:57 pm

It's a convenient way for a 20th level Cleric to cast 4 limited wishes per day as Spell Like Abilities (so no XP cost, which is awesome). Other than that, I don't really see this getting used.
If a Ranger or Paladin spent all their Feats on it, they'd have 6 spells which would be level appropriate for levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18. The first level spell is a god damned joke, and the 3rd level spell (usable 3 times a day when you get it at level 6) is as good as actually being a Sorcerer at the time. The bloom quickly goes off the rose though, and then you cry.
A 4th level Spell cast 3 times a day at level 9 is OK, but nothing to cream yourself over. A 6th level spell 4 times a day at level 12 is awesome. A 7th level spell 3 times a day at level 15 isn't particularly important, and a 9th level spell 3 times a day at level 18 makes you win D&D (considering that it'll be gate as a Spell-like Ability).
So I think you've pretty clearly got a bad progression there. The later you take the feat the higher level you can be before that feat stops mattering, and every other option you get to take the feat is itself level appropriate.
The real key of course is to have that feat exist and be a Chameleon, who can re-select the feat every time she casts divine power on herself.
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virgil
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by virgil » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:08 pm

I specifically mentioned that you cast the spell as a sorcerer of equal level, not as a spell-like ability, so components are still required.
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SeanKitty
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by SeanKitty » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:09 am

> virgileso at [unixtime wrote:1183182530[/unixtime]]
> The number of times per day you can use this spell-like ability is dependent...

No, you never said that. Not at all. :tonguesmile:
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virgil
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by virgil » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:43 am

> virgileso at [unixtime wrote:1183182530[/unixtime]]
> ...From then on, you may cast this spell as a sorcerer of a caster level equal level to your BaB, without any arcane spell failure...

Ah, but I did say that, I just forgot to readjust the second paragraph from the original draft. It's intended that you still use all of the intended components, only without arcane spell failure.
The lack of Charisma on fighters only affects the save DCs, since it's not required to be able to cast these spells. This basically means no-save spells and utility spells are what you use.
The lack of progression is concern, now that you mention it. I'm not convinced that the moment you are a spell level behind, then you've totally wasted a feat.
I shall ponder this some more, though it would likely involve creating specific spell effects that scale on their own with level, rather than choosing any spell from the list.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
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virgil
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by virgil » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:01 am

Hmm...perchance grant a domain (ability and all) and the ability to cast each spell on the list once per day (still need to pay for components), whether or not you're a caster (CL = BAB for access and effects based on CL)?
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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Bigode
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by Bigode » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:10 pm

Honest question: how wouldn't a fighter with this be cleric++ [ignoring for a moment that I think a cleric would get as many as those as possible after Divine Metamagic (Persistant) and be (cleric++)++]? Also, why not CL = CL (er, pardon the pun - caster level = character level)?

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Catharz
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by Catharz » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:52 pm

One-level dip in Planar Conduit.
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SunTzuWarmaster
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:20 pm

It can never be a fighter bonus feat, otherwise Heroics will break it horribly.
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virgil
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by virgil » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:23 am

And what is Heroics?
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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Catharz
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by Catharz » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:59 am

> virgileso at [unixtime wrote:1183602201[/unixtime]]And what is Heroics?

A spell that grants a fighter bonus feat
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JonSetanta
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by JonSetanta » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:40 am

Pump up the feats pump it up

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Voss
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by Voss » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:49 pm

Whats the first feat for?
The game doesn't really need yet another +1 bonus that doesn't always apply and even when it does, it quickly becomes so statistically insignificant that it isn't worth keeping track of.
As far as the Spellcraft access... uh, whee?
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cthulhu
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### Re: Spellcasting Fighter Feats

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Post by cthulhu » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:50 am

The first feat doesn't really help, I think the fighter should have all good saves to start with, it doesn't. What I'd suggest is a feat that allows someone to use their fort save in place of one of their other saves either all the time or some number of times per day based on the number of feats they have if you want to prevent barbarians using it.
And then make spellcraft a class skill too as a bonus.
As for the second one. Urgh. I like the feat I really do, but it is extremely hard to make something that is balanced in the general world of D&D when other classes that are already way to awesome (clerics) can take it. It is a one level dip into planar conduit, which is bad for clerics 'cause kills their spellcasting, but is fantastic for a fighter.
So I think it would be fine if it scaled by BAB (which would shut out wizards and sorcs ), and maybe if you cut the domain power. Then you just flat out screw clerics by saying "must not be a divine caster, must have a spell craft skill of 6 or higher" Then it's shit for wizards because it is going to suck by the time they get it, and it is going to suck for clerics because they cannot take it. And make the spells count as arcane
That makes it a pretty hot deal for fighters. A level 6 Fighter is going to have two 3rd level spells, 2nd, 2 1st, full bab and more hitpoints, compared to the clerics much greater spells, turn undead etc.
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