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Leress
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Post by Leress » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:12 pm

> Kaelik wrote: Both.
> Claiming that "it's different because I'm only saying you should be polite instead of saying that you should be arrested" is always bullshit.
> Either you are saying they shouldn't do it, in which case all the arguments against it being against the law also apply, or you are are saying that they should do it, in which case, well let's be honest, no one has ever argued that something is "polite" for any reason other than to prevent people from doing something.

I wasn't very clear, I'm not claiming that one should be polite, that is no basis for an argument. I was using consideration as "to think about as an option". One weights the option then can chose to do it or not.
I agree with your reasoning.

> Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!

> Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!

> Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.

> I want him to tongue-punch my box.

]

> The divine in me says the divine in you should go fuck itself.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:16 pm

> Leress wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote: Both.
> > Claiming that "it's different because I'm only saying you should be polite instead of saying that you should be arrested" is always bullshit.
> > Either you are saying they shouldn't do it, in which case all the arguments against it being against the law also apply, or you are are saying that they should do it, in which case, well let's be honest, no one has ever argued that something is "polite" for any reason other than to prevent people from doing something.

> I wasn't very clear, I'm not claiming that one should be polite, that is no basis for an argument. I was using consideration as "to think about as an option". One weights the option then can chose to do it or not.
> I agree with your reasoning.

One should consider all options. If you do things without considering them, then you are an idiot. But he didn't say they should consider the feelings of other people, (they explicitly considered the feelings of the people who threatened to kill them for drawing muhammad, and then decided that pissing off those people was a goal in and of itself worth making that cover) he said they shouldn't do it because it's impolite.
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Occluded Sun
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Post by Occluded Sun » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:21 pm

The only form of the Swastika that anyone has a justification for being offended by is the Nazi one. Everything else ought to be a respected religious symbol.
"Most men are of no more use in their lives but as machines for turning food into excrement." - Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci
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Leress
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Post by Leress » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:31 pm

> Mguy wrote:What would an offensive and racist depiction of a Caucasian look like to you Prak?

*raises hand*
I can do that.
The dumb blonde
The redneck
The drunk Irish person
The stereotypes of Italians
The stereotypes of the Roma people
Roma + Irish = ones about the Travellers
The stereotypes about the French,and the British.
The stereotypes about the Appalachians or anyone living in the Mountains.
and for more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotyp ... ted_States
---
Now Prak went into...I don't know exactly where with his non-answer. It was like Prak read half of a racial minorities textbook and just went from there.
Last edited by Leress on Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

> Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!

> Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!

> Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.

> I want him to tongue-punch my box.

]

> The divine in me says the divine in you should go fuck itself.

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Chamomile
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Post by Chamomile » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:19 pm

> Leress wrote:It was like Prak read half of a racial minorities textbook and just went from there.

This is what happens when your understanding of social issues is taken from Tumblr. The original source of the information is college students taking 100-level classes on the subject, and then the information gets repackaged and evolves towards whatever makes people angriest (with the anger usually directed towards a vaguely defined group like "racists") rather than greatest accuracy, which means accuracy degrades as different Tumblrites revise the revisions of revisions so as to inspire more anger.
Relevant
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:35 pm

Are you saying, Cham, that white people don't have a tendency to treat the customs and dress of other cultures as a free buffet with no regard of the meaning of any of it?
Edit- Actually, it occurs to me that there are other "offensive" stereotypes that you could use for caucasians, like the trope of the Great White Hunter. Of course, the problem with that sort of thing is that rather a lot of white people would be proud of being characterized like that.
Last edited by Prak on Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Chamomile
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Post by Chamomile » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:06 pm

I dunno, Prak, why don't we check.

> This is what happens when your understanding of social issues is taken from Tumblr. The original source of the information is college students taking 100-level classes on the subject, and then the information gets repackaged and evolves towards whatever makes people angriest (with the anger usually directed towards a vaguely defined group like "racists") rather than greatest accuracy, which means accuracy degrades as different Tumblrites revise the revisions of revisions so as to inspire more anger.
> Relevant

Gosh, it appears as though nothing even relevant to that subject appeared in my post. Which is not to say that "cultural ghettoization is diversity, ignorance is strength" isn't a stupid argument to make, but it's only tangentially related to any of the conversations that were actually happening in this thread.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:18 pm

Yeah, I'm not watching a random youtube video.
I really don't care about this argument anymore.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Maj
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Post by Maj » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:28 pm

But the video is CPG Grey! You should just watch it because it's him!
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:53 pm

Yeah, I saw that after I posted and got curious. I think I've seen it, but I can't recall much about it. I'm sure I'll watch it again eventually, but at the moment, I'm quite content listening to music, and nothing I say is going to change the minds of Cham and Kaelik, so whatever. I don't care anymore.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Chamomile
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Post by Chamomile » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:53 pm

> Prak wrote:Yeah, I'm not watching a random youtube video.

Oh, so your accusation was incoherent because you didn't actually watch the relevant video and, I guess, just assumed you could divine its contents from tea leaves. Considering that you've already condemned as racists cartoons written in a language you cannot read and made no effort to translate, I shouldn't really be surprised.
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MGuy
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Post by MGuy » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:56 pm

> Leress wrote:

> > Mguy wrote:What would an offensive and racist depiction of a Caucasian look like to you Prak?

> *raises hand*
> I can do that.
> The dumb blonde
> The redneck
> The drunk Irish person
> The stereotypes of Italians
> The stereotypes of the Roma people
> Roma + Irish = ones about the Travellers
> The stereotypes about the French,and the British.
> The stereotypes about the Appalachians or anyone living in the Mountains.
> and for more
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotyp ... ted_States
> ---
> Now Prak went into...I don't know exactly where with his non-answer. It was like Prak read half of a racial minorities textbook and just went from there.

I'm familiar with the stereotypes. I was more curious about what would make Prak call white racism considering what he was saying about how minority people are depicted. I couldn't make heads or tails of his response so I just assumed that for him it's only for minorities or some other protected class.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:04 pm

Cham, fuck off. You didn't address a specific part of my original comment, you just said "TUMBLR DUMB," essentially, attacking what you assumed my basis for my statement was. A link to a seven minute video, with no label or indication as to what about the post your talking about it's relevant too should not be the whole of the context for your post.
The caucasian race is treated as the baseline by western civilization, and all other races are deviations from it. Western caucasians also have a strong tendency to see what another culture is doing and go "ooh, shiny!" and start wearing fucking war bonnets and kimonos with no understanding of the context for these things. So when someone issues the nonsensical challenge of "what would an offensive stereotype of white people look like to you" those are the two things that come quickest to mind to attack in a stereotype. And that's because caucasians are not subject to racism in the way that other races are. Sure, subsets of caucasian can be stereotyped, as Leress lists, but I understood the challenge to be "describe an offensive caricature for the caucasian race in general."
Also, these are not observations unique to tumblr, cultural appropriation has been discussed since at least the 60s and 70s. I'm so sorry I didn't have time to take a 400 level course on racism in society in my ten years of scrambling to get the college to stop fucking me over in the pursuit of a degree.

> MGuy wrote:

> > Leress wrote:

> > > Mguy wrote:What would an offensive and racist depiction of a Caucasian look like to you Prak?

> > *raises hand*
> > I can do that.
> > The dumb blonde
> > The redneck
> > The drunk Irish person
> > The stereotypes of Italians
> > The stereotypes of the Roma people
> > Roma + Irish = ones about the Travellers
> > The stereotypes about the French,and the British.
> > The stereotypes about the Appalachians or anyone living in the Mountains.
> > and for more
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotyp ... ted_States
> > ---
> > Now Prak went into...I don't know exactly where with his non-answer. It was like Prak read half of a racial minorities textbook and just went from there.

> I'm familiar with the stereotypes. I was more curious about what would make Prak call white racism considering what he was saying about how minority people are depicted. I couldn't make heads or tails of his response so I just assumed that for him it's only for minorities or some other protected class.

I'm typing fucking english, here, aren't I? And you guys are generally fucking intelligent, or so I've been led to believe, so I'm not sure what's fucking confusing.
Your question was "What would an offensive and racist depiction of a caucasian look like to you?" And I considered, and was under the above stated impression that you meant a generic caucasian stereotype. So what came to mind was "what things about caucasians seem common enough to become a 'racist' stereotype." The only things I could think of were to depict us as bland clay people, a base for things like "dark skin, curly and coarse hair, and thicker facial features" or "epicanthic folds and 'olive' skin" to be added to, or the caucasian tendency to steal symbols and shit from other cultures wholesale. Thinking about it today, I also thought of stereotypes like "the great white hunter."
Though now you have me curious about non-western(/european) literature and how they stereotype us.
Last edited by Prak on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Chamomile
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Post by Chamomile » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:23 pm

> Prak wrote:A link to a seven minute video, with no label or indication as to what about the post your talking about it's relevant too should not be the whole of the context for your post.

Because?
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:28 pm

> Prak wrote:Western caucasians also have a strong tendency to see what another culture is doing and go "ooh, shiny!" and start wearing fucking war bonnets and kimonos with no understanding of the context for these things.

Yeah, because minority cultures never copy things from other minority cultures or majority cultures based on ascetics without explicitly looking into the deep cultural background.
That's a thing that CAUCASIANS have a strong tendency for!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu-Tang_Clan

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:30 pm

Yeah, Kaelik, just like no one but black people eat fried chicken and watermelon and drink grape kool aid...
Last edited by Prak on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

name_here
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Post by name_here » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:31 pm

> Prak wrote: Your question was "What would an offensive and racist depiction of a caucasian look like to you?" And I considered, and was under the above stated impression that you meant a generic caucasian stereotype. So what came to mind was "what things about caucasians seem common enough to become a 'racist' stereotype." The only things I could think of were to depict us as bland clay people, a base for things like "dark skin, curly and coarse hair, and thicker facial features" or "epicanthic folds and 'olive' skin" to be added to, or the caucasian tendency to steal symbols and shit from other cultures wholesale. Thinking about it today, I also thought of stereotypes like "the great white hunter."
> Though now you have me curious about non-western(/european) literature and how they stereotype us.

Blond hair, blue eyes, tall, women with large breasts, loud, arrogant, obsessed with guns, a strong tendency to attempt to solve problems by force no matter how stupid a plan that is. May wear flags on our heads. That will be a much more recognizable sterotype overseas than "sole practitioners of cultural appropriation"
Cultural appropriation, Japanese style
Last edited by name_here on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:34 pm

Ah, of course, Bandit Keynes, I should have thought of him. Though that's rather America specific, isn't it? What about caucasians in general? Pegasus seems like a stereotype of brits (or rather british aristocracy, but that in itself is a stereotype of brits).
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:38 pm

> Prak wrote:Yeah, Kaelik, just like no one but black people eat fried chicken and watermelon and drink grape kool aid...

Look fuckface, you are the one arguing that "cultural appropriation" is a "strong tendency of Caucasians" not me.
I didn't quote you saying "it's a stereotype that exists" which is probably for the best, because it's not, I quoted you saying it was a strong tendency.
As if they were more likely to do it. Which basically means, you are the one who thinks that black people have a strong tendency to eat watermelon, instead of just having been put in situations in which their eating it was easier, or noticing them eating it was easier.
Because you are the one that thinks that white "cultural appropriation" is derived from a "strong tendency" of specifically white people, as opposed to the universal human desire to use cool shit.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:43 pm

Fine, noted tendancy. Whatever. And people ignore other cases of cultural appropriation by other races. Whatever. Stereotyping caucasians as being all about cultural appropriation is about as valid as most any other racial stereotype, and actually has more of a basis in reality than a lot of them.
Maybe people just got hot about caucasians appropriating shit because we tend to do it after killing a bunch of people from the original culture.
It was a nonsensical fucking question from Mguy in the first place.
Last edited by Prak on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Leress
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Post by Leress » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Prak, could you answer my question then?

> Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!

> Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!

> Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.

> I want him to tongue-punch my box.

]

> The divine in me says the divine in you should go fuck itself.

Top

Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:51 pm

> Prak wrote:Fine, noted tendancy. Whatever. And people ignore other cases of cultural appropriation by other races.

Well no, people don't, you do. All you are telling us is what racist beliefs you have. Which I mean, fine whatever, those are the racist beliefs you have, but for realistically speaking, that is one of the few racist beliefs that almost no one advocates.

> Prak wrote:Maybe people just got hot about caucasians appropriating shit because we tend to do it after killing a bunch of people from the original culture.

Oh Goody! Now white people are the only people who culturally appropriate from conquered people... Because that totally hasn't happened everywhere from China, Japan, the entire Muslim World, ect.
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Top

MGuy
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Post by MGuy » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:53 pm

> Prak wrote:Fine, noted tendancy. Whatever. And people ignore other cases of cultural appropriation by other races. Whatever. Stereotyping caucasians as being all about cultural appropriation is about as valid as most any other racial stereotype, and actually has more of a basis in reality than a lot of them.
> Maybe people just got hot about caucasians appropriating shit because we tend to do it after killing a bunch of people from the original culture.
> It was a nonsensical fucking question from Mguy in the first place.

Nonsensical? Other people grasped it just fine and Leress even provided a list.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:54 pm

@Leress: Oh, I missed that. My point was more that reducing black people to simply a skin color is, well, very reductionist, and pretty ignorant, and the idea that black are "just dark skinned" would probably be offensive to a lot of black people. Because there's a lot more than that, and skin color varies a lot, and there's even a pretty big problem within the black community of prejudice over the tone of one's skin, intertwined to some extent with "passing privilege" stuff.
A political cartoon, admittedly, is going to rely mostly on skin color, and I'm not saying that they should have everyone be the same color, I'm saying that even limiting the discussion to physical characteristics there is more to being black than "just having dark skin."

> Kaelik wrote:

> > Prak wrote:Fine, noted tendancy. Whatever. And people ignore other cases of cultural appropriation by other races.

> Well no, people don't, you do. All you are telling us is what racist beliefs you have. Which I mean, fine whatever, those are the racist beliefs you have, but for realistically speaking, that is one of the few racist beliefs that almost no one advocates.

What the fuck racist beliefs do you think I have, kaelik?

> > Prak wrote:Maybe people just got hot about caucasians appropriating shit because we tend to do it after killing a bunch of people from the original culture.

> Oh Goody! Now white people are the only people who culturally appropriate from conquered people... Because that totally hasn't happened everywhere from China, Japan, the entire Muslim World, ect.

Fine, you have a point, Mguy asked a stupid question, and cultural appropriation was the one truly negative thing I could think that could be picked on to create an offensive stereotype of caucasians. I'm so sorry to have offended your eyes with hasty thinking, master Kaelik.
Last edited by Prak on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

MGuy
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Post by MGuy » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:12 pm

So you are going to keep up that "stupid question" line because... You couldn't come up with an answer?
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

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