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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:22 pm

> I'm also thinking that Physical size is a lot less noticable, or doesn't really exist between 'races'. Halfings are barefoot, and have noticable sideburns or muttonchops, but they're not half the size of a human. Likewise 'Giants' are taller, sure, but they're like 6-8 feet on average, not 9 feet.

I literally cannot [conceive of why you would want to do that or why you think it's a good idea.
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:11 pm

I don't want big logistical problems if the PCs include an Ice Jotun, like, say, they're getting on a plane, or into a car.
Maybe, instead of size, strength, or special abilities is what sets different groups apart.
Jotun are the strongest by far, however their strength is based on the relative temperature, or altitude, and their own particular type of Jotun-type.
So, a Stone/Mountain Giant is the strongest, but they're made weaker at sea level, or lower; while an Ice/Frost Jotun is strongest when the weather is coldest, and a Magma/Fire Jotun is strongest in areas of very high temperature.
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Post by Username17 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:28 pm

If you aren't going to have big races be big or little races be little, why include them at all? No one is holding a gun to your head and demanding that you have stone giants and pixies in addition to bugbears and dwarves. If the smallest race you want to deal with is an elf, you should make the elf the smallest race you allow.
Allowing in "giants" and then turning around and saying "by the way guys, these dudes aren't giant in this campaign" is fucking crazy. That's just going to get to description fail. I mean, people already have genuine cognitive dissonance head explosions just from the fact that a Fire Giant can actually stand up inside your damn garage. Seriously: opn up the DMG 2 to page 165 and look at the "Giant Slayer" in the picture and ruminate on the fact that no one who sees that picture has a problem with it being out of scale. And the "giant" pictured there is clearly 35 feet tall.
If you introduce a fantasy "giant" and at any point reveal that it is the height of an average Ruckman in the Australian Football League you're going to so profoundly and deeply insult everyone at the table that they might not even say anything. Expect to get incredulous and offended stares. Like every single fucking time that comes up.
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:42 pm

Alright, that's a fair point.
I guess that I was making it more obvious that "Giant" doesn't mean "a 35 foot tall guy"; since a guy 35' tall would have a 35' reach, and probably kill anything that tries to get to him, with their feet.
Giants are 'big', but they're not dozens of feet big; like, more like 2 dozen feet tall for the largest ones ever. A 30 or 40 foot giant is not going to exist in this world.
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Grek
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Post by Grek » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:45 am

I would say the absolute minimum to call something a giant is at least 12 feet tall.

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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:21 pm

Well, I was thinking closer to Andre the Giant's size, 7 feet for the minimum size for a giant. That's what a large creature is, 7 feet or so.
I think that a lot of the 2e giants were given large heights and it wasn't considered a big deal, because combat wasn't meant to be realistic, believable or detailed in 2e compared to 3e/3.5e.
In real combat, reach has a massive impact, and having reach can give you lots of advantages when you are fighting a group, or as a group.
Which is probably why, for 3e, that Giants were made a lot 'smaller'. The 2e heights of giants were:
Cloud: 24'. 11,500 lbs; NG/NE
Cyclopskin: 7 1/2' 350 lbs C (E)
Cyclops: 20' CE
Desert: 17' 7,000 lbs N
Ettin: 13' CE
Firbolg: 10 1/2' 800+ lbs N (CG)
Fire: 18', 7,500 lbs LE
Fog: 24' NG/NE
Fomorian: 13 1/2' NE
Frost: 21', 8,000 lbs CE
Hill: 16', 4,500 lbs CE
Jungle: 18', 3,000 lbs N [carry 15' bows]
Mountain: 14', 2,000 lbs CN
Reef: 16', 4,000 lbs NG [Like to surf, sail and fish, live on islands]
Stone: 18', 9,000 N
Storm: 26', 15,000
Verbeeg: 8 1/2 to 10'; 300 to 400 lbs (basically, very large humans)
Wood (Voadkyn): 9 1/2', 700 lbs CG
Most of the 2e giants were never actually that big. I think that it's more a cultural idea than anything we've seen in a game.
I'm thinking that the areas more accessed by smaller races have smaller giants, and the larger giants are the ones that live in more isolated areas.
Meaning that Hill Giants are smaller (7-10'), but Mountain Giants are larger (13-18'). Storm and Cloud giants are all a lot less seen, as they live on cloud contients.
[Edit]: I just realized that I've been calling Giants, what will have a different name in the setting. The things commonly referred to as 'Giants' in D&D, will probably be named Jotun or Jotunbrud. Hopefully using a different name will not have the players have such preconceptions.
Additionally, I want to be able to have Jotunbrud be people that can move in and around the communities of other humanoids without needing special doors or facilities.
Also, most of the players in my group are familiar with the sizes of creatures, in relation to their own characters. A gargantuan or larger creature is something that makes them back up and try to engage at range if it's possible.

D&D also has a lot of redundant creatures. I'm using the 1993 edition of D&D, published in 1996 Monstrous Manual to look at a ton of monsters without having to go over several books at once. It seriously has... Lamias, Wemics and Lamia Nobles; and about... 12 to 20 different "animal mashups" that result in quite a lot of of flying predators (Griffon, Hippogriff, 4 sphinxes, Manticore; that's 7 right there, my 'caring' factor isn't high enough to care about whether something is a 'something' or a 'something else'; they're all just flying predators that look like a mix of animals, and sometimes humans).
I'll probably cherry-pick monsters, and cut others; or blend them together.

Adventuring in the world, modern, or ancient
We're the best their is, so what if we're a Troll, Werefox, Ghoul and War-Ape?
By definition, adventurers are on the fringes of their societies. Finding a single adventurer who is a well adjusted individual for their species is highly unlikely.
These are people and creatures who do not willingly attack other humanoids that they have not met before; and are willing to attack aggressive creatures.
A pair of adventuring Hobgoblins could see an Elf fighting a Hell Hound, and if they're able to help out, then the Hobgoblins will seriously aid and assist the Elf.
While this 'may' seem like altruism, it's more about self-preservation. If the Hell Hound in question kills the Elf, then it will very likely turn on the two Hobgoblins, potentially injuring, or killing them. While, if they helped the Elf, they will very likely be thanked, and be allowed to get a share of the spoils of the kill.

How to do Races?
You fuckers can't be Bugbears; we're the Bugbears!
If you have the Russians represented by people; they need to be the same people that were once the viking.
Pther Races?
The Doppleganger Empire
You can't fight what you accept as your own
The original Psychic Lords and Ladies that ruled the Doppleganger empires spread out colonies, designed to look the natives. they spread them out to the four corners of the globe. A people that would carry on the legacy of being able to adapt and change to different situations.
The problem was that 1) away from their powerful rulers, the Dopplegangers seemed to get less effective at changing to their surroundings, and seemed to go at a sluggish pace. Also 2) once accepted as part of a local poplulation, and even interbreeding with an other population, resulted in the descendents of Dopplegangers to spread wildly across the globe. The large amount of these partial-breeds are, basically humans. Creatures whose genes only now
basically alternate forms that Dryads take. None of this "well, we have wood spirits too; and they're called [something], and they have [arbitrary] stats".
[/hr]

Other countries:
Japan
Nippon, ancient land; full of secrets, and warfare. Beauty, and violence
Let's face it, Japan has a very different culture from other people. That's mostly why people pay attention; they're sometimes harder working, or more opinionated, or more something about whatever it is that they do. As such, people always try to put the setting and place into their games, and then go all pretendey styles about how it's some 'eastern' empire named [not-Japan]; and it's described as being in a political state equal to some similar state that Japan once was in. Either warring feudal states, or united under a shogun; or in some sort of other turmoil.
We're not going to do that here. People want savagely good at warfare that has strict codes of conduct; like "you can only attack one man at a time, and no interfering with an other person's enemy; that's dishonourable. Only peasants or eta do that." Hobgoblins can fit that bill, since they're ancient feudal Japan pastiches and parodies. However, we want Bishies, so let's toss Eladrin, Elffs, haffelffs, and humans. Some Fey water spirits, tree spirits,
[h]
Hemispheres:
East:

- Europe
- Australia
- Africa
- Asia

West:
Other countries:
Japan
[h]
West:

- North America
- Central America/Gulf of Mexico/Caribbean
- South America

==============
ninja addition, may 4 2010
That's how I've always thought they should be treated in games. As a species that can always carry the genes of an other species, which makes it so that people of different D&D species aren't so desperate about survival.
As a species that everyone keeps around, because they can't wipe out your genes, just create a mixed society, and there are lots of humans, so there's more chance of a group getting help, because humans are in danger, so other humans who can, try to help.
Which might explain why humans are everywhere in D&D. Humans are kept around, because they're handy. They breed warriors fast, compared to dwarves/elves. They looks close enough to the other 'fantasy forehead' human-toned creatures, that they can engage in conversation with an Elf, or a Dwarf, or Halfling.
If you really think about it. In reality, Humans are as much like Orcs or Kraken, as they are like Dwarves or Elves. That was probably the point of Orcs. They show the worst possible parts of humanity. Of course, this is made worse because
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Tue May 04, 2010 9:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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