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## [Prestige Class] The Anti-Mage (Maneuverless Melee)

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Woodrow-.-
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### [Prestige Class] The Anti-Mage (Maneuverless Melee)

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Post by Woodrow-.- » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:09 am

Anti-Mage
Origin: http://www.dota-allstars.com/hero/1856/index.html
The Anti-Mage is driven to confront any arcane or divine spellcaster who crosses his path. Anti-Mages believe that mortals are too irresponsible to wield magic, and that those who dare to misuse it must be slain. Spellcasters who become Anti-Mages are considered to have seen the error of their ways--although they may still cast spells, they rely primarily on their battle prowess and their ability to resist magical effects to defeat their enemies.
The Anti-Mage comes into his own abilities through exhaustive training. Every regimen he performs is an exercise that refines his anger against spellcasters into martial skill.
The prestige class is ideal for individuals who have been victimized by spellcasters and seek acceptable ways to oppose them. Most Anti-Mages begin their careers as swordsages, hexblades, and sometimes even spell thieves.
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become an Anti-Mage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Spellcraft 3, Listen 8, Knowledge Arcana 3
Feats: Blind Fight, Mage Slayer
Alignment: Any
Weapon Proficiency: Profiency with at least one martial weapon
Special: Must have spent the entire previous 24 hours attempting to function normally while blind-folded and without sight.
Class Skills
Anti-Mage’s class skills are: Tumble, Jump, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), Listen, Climb, Balance, Escape Artist, Move Silently, Swim
Skills Points at Each Level : 4 + Int.
Hit Dice: d8
Level| BAB |Fort|Ref | Will| Special ability
-----------------------------------------
1 | +1 | +0 | +2 | +2 |Prescient Sense, Blink, Mana Break (10%)
-----------------------------------------
2 | +2 | +0 | +3 | +3 |Spell Shield, Bonus Feat
-----------------------------------------
3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | +3 |Arcane Resistance, Mana Break (20%)
-----------------------------------------
4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | +4 |Blink Cancel, Prescient Sight, Bonus Feat
-----------------------------------------
5 | +5 | +1 | +4 | +4 |Mana Void, Mana Break (30%)
Prescient Sense (Ex./Sp.): Through battles with spellcasters, the Anti-Mage has come to dislike and distrust relying on his visual sight and has trained himself to use alternative means of detection. An Anti-Mage of first level gains Blind Sense 30 ft. (MM p.306) as well as the ability see as if he had cast Detect Magic at a range of 30 ft.. His caster level equals his class level.
Blink (Su.): The Anti-Mage's overexposure to magic has bestowed upon him the unique ability move faster than light itself. As a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, Anti-Mages can teleport a distance up to their base land speed. An Anti-Mage can do this every 1d4 rounds.
Mana Break (Su.): An Anti-Mage's supernatural affinity for and knowledge of the inner workings of magic grants an Anti-Mage the ability to strike spell casters in a way that twists their magical essence against themselves and causes gut-wrenching pain. Beginning at level 1, when a successful melee strike is performed against an opponent that can cast spells or spell-like abilities, the victim has a 10% chance for any spell or spell-like ability they cast that requires somatics to fizzle and do nothing. This effect lasts for 1 minute (Fortitude DC = 10 + Wis + Anti-Mage Class Level). The percentage increases to 20% at 3rd level, and 30% at 5th level.
Bonus Feat: At 2nd and 4th level, an Anti-Mage gains a bonus feat, which must be selected from the Fighter's list of bonus feats.
Spell Shield (Su.): An Anti-Mage shows a great resilience to magical attacks and can shrug off magic that might normally affect him. An Anti-Mage of 3rd level gains Spell Resistance (15 + 1 for every character level). So a character with 3 levels in Anti-Mage and a total of 9 class levels would have a Spell Resistance of 24.
Arcane Resistance (Su.): At 3rd level, an Anti-Mage gains a bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier (minimum +1) on saving throws on spells and spell-like effects.
Blink Cancel (Su.): By momentarily exiting the material plane, the Anti-Mage has learned to use Blink for dodging attacks and spells of which he's aware that he's the target or in the area of effect of. At 3rd level an Anti-Mage can use Blink as an immediate action.
Prescient Sight (Ex.): A 4th level Anti-Mage gains Blind Sight 30ft. (MM p.306).
Mana Void (Su.): Upon reaching 5th level, an Anti-Mage can force his enemy to awaken the void within and spontaneously implode. Mana Void functions like Greater Dispel Magic the spell and may be used Wisdom modifier time per day (minimum of once). In addition to the Dispel effect, the original caster of the spell is dealt a number of d8 equal to their caster level and may only receive the damage from Mana Void once per round in this way, not once per spell dispelled. Mana Void has a 100 ft. range and requires a standard action to use.
Thanks for reading this far! I posted this recently on the BG forums and got some help with it. I am expecting and looking forward to much harsher criticism here, though. What's amiss? What sucks? What is underpowered? I realize that the only thing proficient at killing a caster is a caster, itself, but I just wanted to make a melee class that doesn't go off of ToB and that would resemble other WotC classes, but not completely suck (take the Occult Slayer as an example of what I think is a terrible class).
Last edited by Woodrow-.- on Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:09 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:48 am

The DC and SR don't scale properly, d4/level only once is barely noticeable and likely should be more than that, and 10-30% is far too little to actually be an anti-spellcaster. Details aside, I think that's kinda decent for the low levels where the character is, but it doesn't leave much of a place to go if you never were a spellcaster to keep getting relevant anti-spellcasting abilities. You might get some extra stuff from here.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Akula
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Post by Akula » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:08 am

Bigode makes good points. 30% is too low and the d4s should be d8s or effect once for each spell dispelled.
I'll add, Blink is too little. Up it to base land movement. You need greater teleport at least WIS mod times per day. SR should be based on character level for a class that short.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:49 pm

How does "blink cancel" work? Does the character avoid all damage? Does the character avoid 50% of the damage? Is there a 50% miss chance? Is it an immediate action?
Where is the character's 'preternatural weapon bond'?
And are the body runes from being an "anti-mage" or from being a half-fiend?
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ZER0
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Post by ZER0 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:21 am

From being a Warcraft style Demon Hunter, I'd say.

> Absentminded_Wizard wrote:

> > 4e PHB, p. 57 under "Target" (bolding mine) wrote:When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your team-mates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.

> Yes, according to 4e RAW, you are your own enemy.

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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:25 pm

So... You already have Blindfighting and Mage Slayer and this 5-level class will give you...
Your Blindsense (from Blindfighting) 2 levels early (woo!),
Blindsight (after you get Tremorsense at a longer distance),
An additional +5 (and +1 per level) SR,
The level 1 ability of a Conjurer without a familiar (except worse),
Mana Break, which is not really better than the 'continuous damage' option that you already have, but it stacks because it is from a weird source.
Um, meh.
How about something like:
1 - You may teleport 10 feet as a Immediate Action (this ability provokes an Attack of Opportunity if your opponent has Edge), Detect Magic at will
2 - Your SR increases by to 15+level, (so you are resisting 75% of spells from equal level spellcasters)
3 - Enemies you hit are subject to Dimensional Anchor. You are constantly under the effect of Greater Anticipate Teleportation.
4 - Parry Magic (see Samurai, may only be done with chosen weapon, weapon can be changed at a 24 hour/100gp cost).
5 - Chosen weapon is a Greater Dispelling weapon in addition to any other properties it has (as per the BoG Lesser Dispelling quality, except that objects struck are subject to a Greater Dispel spell). Character can cast Greater Dispel Magic as a move action.
Character is pretty much immune to direct magic (Parry Magic for anything with a save, SR for anything else, also getting saves), so must be approached indirectly (no save/no SR spells, terrain alteration, solid fog, etc.). Also, character is difficult to run from or slow down.
The above is better (more powerful) than what you posted, less confusing (Mana Break), and less stupid (Blindsense, Blink). Parry Magic may have put it over the top, however. It definitely has a Samurai-esque feel to it though, focusing more on the Mage Slayer part of the character and less on the Horde Breaker part.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:42 pm

> SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Your Blindsense (from Blindfighting) 2 levels early (woo!),
> Blindsight (after you get Tremorsense at a longer distance)

Not really if Tome feats aren't assumed.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:46 am

Ah, maybe that was the problem. What does the non-Tome Mage Slayer look like? Maybe that's why the author was trying to emulate its features...
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:21 am

Same goes for Blind-Fight. Complete Shit - Mage Slayer: +1 Will, spellcasters threatened can't cast defensively; required along with Blind-Fight for Pierce Magical Concealment (what it says on the tin, plus mirror image), and alone for Pierce Magical Protection (standard-action attack that ignores spell-made AC and dispels such effects if hits). Each of those stacks -4 to any CL you have.
Last edited by Bigode on Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:40 am

Out of curiosity, does Pierce Magical Protection apply to polymorph abuse (Alter Self -> Trolodyte), or is it left open to DM ruling.
All in all, that isn't bad for actually killing mages. That is a heavy feat investment, however (3 feats to render a decent line of protection spells useless).
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:01 am

EDIT: the class has at least one Sp ability, that's penalized by Mage Slayer, assuming it's the official version.

> SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Out of curiosity, does Pierce Magical Protection apply to polymorph abuse (Alter Self -> Trolodyte), or is it left open to DM ruling.
> All in all, that isn't bad for actually killing mages. That is a heavy feat investment, however (3 feats to render a decent line of protection spells useless).

Answer the following question: is it a spell, and granting a bonus to AC? If yes, said bonus' ignored. One could try a stupid hair-splitting argument that "it's not really a spell that gives AC" to keep it from being dispelled by a hit, but I doubt that flies ... with anyone. As for he investment, that's decent as WotC feats go, and you wouldn't cry in any case of your class not sucking (yay rogue, possibly yay rogue/anti-mage), but: making an attack without extra damage as a standard action might not be as useful as the effect makes it sound, and it's funny to see the RoW samurai get those for free on bottoms of Cheerios boxes.
Last edited by Bigode on Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Woodrow-.-
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Post by Woodrow-.- » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:01 am

> Maybe that's why the author was trying to emulate its features...

I have no idea what that is. You have probably heard of Warcraft III. You have probably not heard of Defense of the Ancients (a custom WC3 map ; DotA:WC3::CS:Half Life). In this competitive online game, there is a character named Magina, the Anti-Mage. I modeled the PrC as closely to the hero from the video game as I could without forcing it into draining spell slots/power points. There is a link in the original post as to this class' origin.

> SR should be based on character level for a class that short.

Sure. Originally I was going to make this to try and use this PrC in a campaign and I was subject to my DM 'influencing' the class features. I am no longer going to play it now. I'm just going to stick with my Beguiler.

> How does "blink cancel" work? Does the character avoid all damage? Does the character avoid 50% of the damage? Is there a 50% miss chance? Is it an immediate action?

Yes, in the description of Blink Cancel you will read that it is an immediate action. Which causes auto-failure, I believe, since you are no longer there.

> Where is the character's 'preternatural weapon bond'?

I copied quite a bit of the Occult Slayer's flavor text. I had the tables and features done and was too burnt out to write the description at the time. It made no sense.

> And are the body runes from being an "anti-mage" or from being a half-fiend?

That is a picture of the character from the WarCraft series, Illidan. He is neither an Anti-Mage, nor a half-fiend, but rather a Night Elf. It's just a picture. But if you like, that picture is of an Dragonborn of Bahamut (Wings) Half-Minotaur Silverbrow Human Tattoo'ed Monk with long ears.

> Your Blindsense (from Blindfighting) 2 levels early (woo!),
> Blindsight (after you get Tremorsense at a longer distance),
> An additional +5 (and +1 per level) SR,
> The level 1 ability of a Conjurer without a familiar (except worse),
> Mana Break, which is not really better than the 'continuous damage' option that you already have, but it stacks because it is from a weird source.

I don't understand what you mean about Blindsense. Are you saying 'woo!' as in, Blindsense is fun, or being sarcastic? Blindsight and Blindsense are both at 30ft. The SR will be edited, but as far as progression goes, starts too low, then gets too high, ends up mediocre for awhile, and finally bad. Conjurers are strong. Continuous Damage option?

> this ability provokes an Attack of Opportunity if your opponent has Edge

No AoO. Magina doesn't get hit when he blinks away. His ass is gone. What is Edge? Warmage's Edge?

> Enemies you hit are subject to Dimensional Anchor. You are constantly under the effect of Greater Anticipate Teleportation.

That would be nice but it doesn't really make any sense currently. It was in one of my revisions, but it was just something that I thought someone blinking up to mages and smacking them should have, not something I thought fit in. I suppose I have the power to spin the flavor to reflect anything I want, though. It's just nothing close to what he's able to do in the video game and currently doesn't fit.

> Chosen weapon is a Greater Dispelling weapon in addition to any other properties it has (as per the BoG Lesser Dispelling quality, except that objects struck are subject to a Greater Dispel spell). Character can cast Greater Dispel Magic as a move action.

All of these things that are useful to a character using this PrC just seem like they will get cluttered. I keep contemplating making it a 7 level Prc or even 10. What I originally had for Mana Break was:
Mana Break 1: Silence
Mana Break 2: Dispelled
Mana Break 3: AMF affecting only the creature struck
DM nipped that in the butt, though.

> Parry Magic

CW Samurai feature? I have never read much about them. I get to the level 2 abilities and can't see anymore because of the tears.
Last edited by Woodrow-.- on Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zeruslord
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Post by zeruslord » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:13 am

Most of what you don't get is referring to the Tomes, which are stickied on IMHO. The important thing to note is that the balance standard is far more powerful than WotC thought they were creating.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:19 am

Go straight for the .pdf, I suggest. I'd also say "read it all, you'll come out better for it", but the relevant parts to you ATM are the samurai and the feats namesake of your prerequisites.
---
As he despises the CW samurai, and plays a beguiler, he might feel right at home ... or think the warrior classes didn't go far enough (and IIRC, a few people did say that once).
---
If the picture isn't even of the PrC, I'd suggest deleting it - not doing anything other than slowing and widening the page.
Last edited by Bigode on Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:09 am

Yea, I didn't realize that you hadn't read the Tomes. Most of what you are trying to do is already done.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:14 am

> SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Yea, I didn't realize that you hadn't read the Tomes. Most of what you are trying to do is already done.

You overestimated our prevalence a bit. Sometimes people only learn about the Tomes after being smacked with them. (No manner of offense intended, Woodrow-.-).

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Woodrow-.-
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Post by Woodrow-.- » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:40 am

> The important thing to note is that the balance standard is far more powerful than WotC thought they were creating.

I agree with that, and that knowledge should be considered common if it is not already. Unfortunately the gaming group I was raised along-side has just never realized what is strong and why. I could keep a creature disabled for 5 minutes and hit it with my quarterstaff that whole time until it kills over and no one would raise a brow. I could play a barbarian and deal 100 damage on a charge and everyone would tell me that I need to remake my character because it is too good. So many common conceptions missing from that group... I try to teach them, but alas..
Anyway, that is the DnD environment I grew up in. I get scorned when I seemingly change the way the game would be played if it were being played from an early 3.0 conversion from 2E. I have some leeway with one of my recent DM's, who is not from that group, and he was fine with me making a custom PrC and starting up a second character in one of our games, considering we are terribly inefficient and lack things to be in the way of our casters and/or players in general. I had to work with him on this class, and keep it pretty toned down considering the campaign is horribly built and, left unchanged, could be conquered by a mildly optimized whip and board sundering human fighter, a goblin feat rogue built around bull rushing, and a warforged bard following the BoED vow chain (not half-bad). Of course our DM is spicing things up, but so far we are still dominating and to suddenly have something running around Dispelling on attack and creating AMF's and Dimensional Anchors wouldn't fit in considering our party's power-level. I made this class ignoring the potentials in D&D, but rather, looking around me, my campaign, my allies, etc.
I realize that by bringing it here for advice I set myself up for "this blows."

> read it all, you'll come out better for it

That's definitely what I just did. You can imagine that I need to change my diaper, I'm sure. Parry Magic, by the way, was amazing to me. What a good idea! I suppose I just didn't realize that by posting on this forum, I was to take into account applying Frank and K to 3.5.
I apologize and I suppose in more ways than one this thread has become pointless. So feel free to stop giving advice and everything. (general statement, not directed at Bigode)

> he might feel right at home

For sure.

> Most of what you are trying to do is already done.

Eh, there's no thematic representation of the character from that video game I know and love. But yes, mechanically, there are some very smooth and appropriate 'melee's answers to casting' food for thought lurking in these forums.
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Post by zeruslord » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:46 pm

> Woodrow wrote:I suppose I just didn't realize that by posting on this forum, I was to take into account applying Frank and K to 3.5.

You aren't required to, but it is assumed unless otherwise stated.
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Post by Maxus » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:17 pm

> Woodrow-.- wrote:
> To everyone who posted here: Thank you!

Welcome aboard.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
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Post by Bigode » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:13 am

> Woodrow-.- wrote:I realize that by bringing it here for advice I set myself up for "this blows."
> (...)
> Eh, there's no thematic representation of the character from that video game I know and love. But yes, mechanically, there are some very smooth and appropriate 'melee's answers to casting' food for thought lurking in these forums.

Eh, I don't even think it actually blows - but it is mostly better done in the Tomes. As for adapting what's missing, you could make feats, or a PrC that already takes the samurai into account. And that if you're allowed use it in your game - otherwise, fixing the flaws pointed previously should produce a PrC fit for use with official material.

> Woodrow-.- wrote:That's definitely what I just did. You can imagine that I need to change my diaper, I'm sure.

We all had to.

> Woodrow-.- wrote:I suppose I just didn't realize that by posting on this forum, I was to take into account applying Frank and K to 3.5.

You don't have to. In fact, I don't use even near everything in them. But it's highly advised that people know they exist, what they're good for and what might've been done already.

> Woodrow-.- wrote:For sure.

Yay!

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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