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## Lopping off tyrants' heads to get them to behave.

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Lago PARANOIA
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### Lopping off tyrants' heads to get them to behave.

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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:52 pm

This is a very standard fantasy adventuring trope, but it also seems like it would be extremely ineffective in even 'realistic' roleplaying, let alone D&D.
In real life, even when the threat of getting your head lopped off or getting a bullet put between your eyes for being a bastard doesn't stop people from being a bastard; nor does it deter people who come after them from being a bastard.
In the end, you're sort of playing some kind of murderous lottery where if you lop of Baroness vonPuppyeater's head you hope her son becomes Baron vonPuppykicker--but you're just as equally likely to get Baron vonBabyeater. But no matter how many times you cut off their heads you'll never get Baron vonPuppypetter.
So what's the fucking point?
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:01 am

Last I checked, you become President Babyeater after killing President Dogkicker, and it's extremely debatable whether you previously had any intention other than getting hard-to-achieve nutrition.
EDIT: why do I feel this actually belongs here?
Last edited by Bigode on Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:01 am

Ack, I meant to put this in My Humble Opinion. Terribly sorry.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Ganbare Gincun
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### Re: Lopping off tyrants' heads to get them to behave.

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Post by Ganbare Gincun » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:47 am

> Lago PARANOIA wrote:So what's the fucking point?

As a means to promoting justice and freedom, it's utterly pointless. Anyone that violently deposes a tyrant is going to have to spend at least a decade stabilizing the country, ensuring that a viable government can be created, and fending off the depredations of the tyrant's former followers, friends, and family. However, if you're just looking to exact revenge, make off with all of the tyrant's treasure, or if you want to take over the position of tyrant yourself, an execution works out very well.
But the perpetuation of this trope isn't about realistic outcomes - it's a simple ending that allows authors to end a story with on an uplifting, blood-soaked high note. It's supposed to demonstrate that justice reigns supreme and that good ultimately triumphs over evil, but all it really does is reinforce the idea that might makes right when you really think about it.
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Bigode
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### Re: Lopping off tyrants' heads to get them to behave.

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Post by Bigode » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:49 am

> Ganbare Gincun wrote:It's supposed to demonstrate that justice reigns supreme and that good ultimately triumphs over evil, but all it really does is reinforce the idea that might makes right when you really think about it.

So, when you think hard about it, you find an actually true lesson? Better than intended by most authors, I guess.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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Ganbare Gincun
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### Re: Lopping off tyrants' heads to get them to behave.

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Post by Ganbare Gincun » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:05 am

> Bigode wrote:

> > Ganbare Gincun wrote:It's supposed to demonstrate that justice reigns supreme and that good ultimately triumphs over evil, but all it really does is reinforce the idea that might makes right when you really think about it.

> So, when you think hard about it, you find an actually true lesson? Better than intended by most authors, I guess.

Maybe so, but it's still no Seven Samurai, that's for sure.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:58 am

Lopping off the head of the Sun King is a necessary step towards the creation of modern France. Yeah, it's an ugly period, but not uglier than the period right before that.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:04 am

Frank, off-topic, but are you doing alright? I keep reading articles about how the Czech Government collapsed...
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:43 am

> Count_Arioch_the_28th wrote:Frank, off-topic, but are you doing alright? I keep reading articles about how the Czech Government collapsed...

Oh, I got arrested. I spent the day in a Czech jail because the Czech government lost my visa and then when I came in to sort it out they arrested me for not having my visa. It's pretty fucked up. My perp card is even in Russian. I don't even know why that would happen.
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ckafrica
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Post by ckafrica » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:39 am

Frank: There aren't agencies that sort these things out or your school at least help with the process? In Vietnam I just pay a guy to get my visas sorted and he makes sure all the right people are bribed so that I can get my visa quick and seemlessly.
The internet gave a voice to the world thus gave definitive proof that the world is mostly full of idiots.
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