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## 5e highlights reel?

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FatR
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Post by FatR » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:11 am

> FrankTrollman wrote:If someone wants to buy your house, they need to use cheques or bank transfers or some other kind of portable form of large value. No number of copper coins is going to be accepted as a fair exchange. Nor should it.

You're being retarded. As evidenced by, among a lot of other things, the fact that just this year our family had bought real property with a pile of cash.
Before you try to say something even more retarded about paper currency and precious metal currency somehow being different - DnDland has plenty of forms of the latter that are more portable than piles of copper. Platinum. Gems. Whatever rare magical metals exist in the setting.
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FatR
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Post by FatR » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:28 am

I'm of two minds about the "gold problem" that is discussed in this thread. It is pretty clear that it exists only because of metagame thinking.
In the real life, getting a big fucking pile of gold was the win condition for adventurer equivalents. You get fat loot, you pull off a big heist, you finally get paid for your many years of mercenary service, and then you retire to peaceful life. Because not that many people in the real life are sufficiently dedicated adrenaline junkies to slog through the battlefield mud, suffer surgery without anesthesia and risk their lives when they already have enough money for all the ale and whores they'll need.
But as far as DnD has winning conditions at all, getting a lot of gold never was one of them. PCs, by nature, do want to get on more and more and more adventures. So unless gold can be used for something that is consistently helpful in adventuring, having a lot of it is sort of meaningless to them.
On the other hand, if gold can be directly converted at powerful weaponry at a flat rate, we get into a situation, where PCs break the game as soon as they try to interact with the world's economics at all.
My preferred solution would be to make gold useful for things that are consumable (so it is needed constantly), but offer utility and maybe extra options, rather than direct additions to a character's killpower like potions, scrolls and rituals. I'm quite content with permanent and major magic items being at GM's hands, it is far less annoying than calculating magic item budgets for mid- to high-level characters. 5E apparently is content to make gold irrelevant after you get the best mundane equipment.
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Fwib
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Post by Fwib » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:37 am

> FatR wrote:

> > FrankTrollman wrote:If someone wants to buy your house, they need to use cheques or bank transfers or some other kind of portable form of large value. No number of copper coins is going to be accepted as a fair exchange. Nor should it.

> You're being retarded. As evidenced by, among a lot of other things, the fact that just this year our family had bought real property with a pile of cash.
> Before you try to say something even more retarded about paper currency and precious metal currency somehow being different - DnDland has plenty of forms of the latter that are more portable than piles of copper. Platinum. Gems. Whatever rare magical metals exist in the setting.

Reading Franks's original post, I think that a point was being made that large quantities of tiny coins are inconvenient, to the point that you can use that to be actually abusive, like this: Man gets settlement paid in buckets of coins
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Insomniac
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Post by Insomniac » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Having monsters get 3 autosaves if they fail a save definitely is a "highlight" of idiocy and disconnected game design that makes people more lokely to use lower level spells the more "Legendary" the foes are.
apparently, the best way to kill ancient dragons is with scaling cantrips and low level crowd control.
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Voss
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Post by Voss » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:36 pm

Well, keep in mind the effectiveness (DC) of a spell is not based on level anymore. Blindness fucks with anyone that doesn't have blindsight or whatever. Other spells (hold and dominate) are still based on the target set, which means wasting a 5th level slot on the big bad is pointless if it happens to be humanoid- use a 2nd level instead. Though if it's a monster in disguise, you're fucked.
Damage spells are just as bad, since the damage often makes zero sense, as disintegrate does more than finger of death, and cone of cold is +2 levels for +8 damage.
In all cases the lower level you can get your basic effect on, the better. The higher level spells are best reserved for really singular effects that absolutely can't be replicated earlier.
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animea90
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Post by animea90 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:21 pm

> FatR wrote:

> > FrankTrollman wrote:If someone wants to buy your house, they need to use cheques or bank transfers or some other kind of portable form of large value. No number of copper coins is going to be accepted as a fair exchange. Nor should it.

> You're being retarded. As evidenced by, among a lot of other things, the fact that just this year our family had bought real property with a pile of cash.
> Before you try to say something even more retarded about paper currency and precious metal currency somehow being different - DnDland has plenty of forms of the latter that are more portable than piles of copper. Platinum. Gems. Whatever rare magical metals exist in the setting.

If your family is carrying around enough cash to by a house, you really don't have room to call others retarded.
Last edited by animea90 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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malak
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Post by malak » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:26 pm

> Insomniac wrote:Having monsters get 3 autosaves if they fail a save definitely is a "highlight" of idiocy and disconnected game design that makes people more lokely to use lower level spells the more "Legendary" the foes are.
> apparently, the best way to kill ancient dragons is with scaling cantrips and low level crowd control.

The dragon can choose to autosave; for minor effects he probably won't.
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ACOS
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Post by ACOS » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:59 pm

> animea90 wrote:

> > FatR wrote:

> > > FrankTrollman wrote:If someone wants to buy your house, they need to use cheques or bank transfers or some other kind of portable form of large value. No number of copper coins is going to be accepted as a fair exchange. Nor should it.

> > You're being retarded. As evidenced by, among a lot of other things, the fact that just this year our family had bought real property with a pile of cash.
> > Before you try to say something even more retarded about paper currency and precious metal currency somehow being different - DnDland has plenty of forms of the latter that are more portable than piles of copper. Platinum. Gems. Whatever rare magical metals exist in the setting.

> If your family is carrying around enough cash to by a house, you really don't have room to call others retarded.

Eh, you're missing the point that he's missing:
There is a significant difference, in terms of practicality, between paying for a $20k piece of property in $100 bills and paying for a $500k house with Sacagaweas. One weighs about half-a-pound, the other clocks in at 4.5 tons.
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Voss
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Post by Voss » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:12 am

> malak wrote:

> > Insomniac wrote:Having monsters get 3 autosaves if they fail a save definitely is a "highlight" of idiocy and disconnected game design that makes people more lokely to use lower level spells the more "Legendary" the foes are.
> > apparently, the best way to kill ancient dragons is with scaling cantrips and low level crowd control.

> The dragon can choose to autosave; for minor effects he probably won't.

Sure, but... what counts as a minor effect? Level 2 for web (if you can pull it off), restraining the dragon? Level 3 for stinking cloud (disadvantage)? Level 4 for polymorph (once it is under 150 hp) for instant squirrelification? Level 5 for hold monster? Because you can throw multiple of all of those before reaching for the 6th or 7th level spells, and all of them are at a non-trivial 18 DC, assuming no magical bullshit to push that higher.
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fectin
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Post by fectin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:13 am

> animea90 wrote:

> > FatR wrote:

> > > FrankTrollman wrote:If someone wants to buy your house, they need to use cheques or bank transfers or some other kind of portable form of large value. No number of copper coins is going to be accepted as a fair exchange. Nor should it.

> > You're being retarded. As evidenced by, among a lot of other things, the fact that just this year our family had bought real property with a pile of cash.
> > Before you try to say something even more retarded about paper currency and precious metal currency somehow being different - DnDland has plenty of forms of the latter that are more portable than piles of copper. Platinum. Gems. Whatever rare magical metals exist in the setting.

> If your family is carrying around enough cash to by a house, you really don't have room to call others retarded.

Why? Do you have enough cash on hand to buy a house?
Stupid is as stupid does, and his "retarded" family now straight-up owns a house.

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Voss
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Post by Voss » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:24 am

So do many people. But they also understand how to use a checkbook or bank draft.
Paying for a house in cash has no practical benefit and also can attract attention that isn't positive, including from the government and employers, which often start asking question when large sums of cash get thrown about in a way that is a matter of record.
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infected slut princess
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Post by infected slut princess » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:40 am

Cash is king. The only problem is trying to launder it all.

> Oh, then you are an idiot. Because infected slut princess has never posted anything worth reading at any time.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 am

> fectin wrote:Why? Do you have enough cash on hand to buy a house?
> Stupid is as stupid does, and his "retarded" family now straight-up owns a house.

Remember everyone, money is the surest sign of intelligence in the universe and is in no way whatsoever mostly a factor of outside forces such as parents income or luck.
You heard it here first.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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infected slut princess
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Post by infected slut princess » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:25 am

Making money is mostly about luck. Or your parents money. But how did the parents get the money? Luck. You heard it here first.
But I don't know if I buy that. I mean, for me? My amount of money is mostly a function of how many crackheads I can beat and rob.

> Oh, then you are an idiot. Because infected slut princess has never posted anything worth reading at any time.

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nockermensch
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Post by nockermensch » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:43 am

This autosave mechanic is making me think of shounen anime. Characters will start the fight against legendary foes throwing bullshit attacks and hold on their main guns until they're sure the enemy can't auto-succeed anymore.
@ @ Nockermensch

> Koumei wrote:After all, in Firefox you keep tabs in your browser, but in SovietPutin's Russia, browser keeps tabs on you.

> Mord wrote:Chromatic Wolves are massively under-CRed. Its "Dood to stone" spell-like is a TPK waiting to happen if you run into it before anyone in the party has Dance of Sack or Shield of Farts.

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fectin
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Post by fectin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:06 am

> Kaelik wrote:Remember everyone, money is the surest sign of intelligence in the universe and is in no way whatsoever mostly a factor of outside forces such as parents income or luck.
> You heard it here first.

I have a friend who makes similar (il)logical leaps. E.g. "If you think washing babies is good, why not drown them in bleach?!" She does it for comic effect; what's your excuse?

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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fectin
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Post by fectin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:07 am

The scourge of double-posting has come upon you all. Repent, for I am sent from on high to say another mundane thing, where no-one has interscribed!

> nockermensch wrote:This autosave mechanic is making me think of shounen anime. Characters will start the fight against legendary foes throwing bullshit attacks and hold on their main guns until they're sure the enemy can't auto-succeed anymore.

So, you're saying that the nominally old-school edition is the most weaboo?

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:10 am

> fectin wrote:

> > Kaelik wrote:Remember everyone, money is the surest sign of intelligence in the universe and is in no way whatsoever mostly a factor of outside forces such as parents income or luck.
> > You heard it here first.

> I have a friend who makes similar (il)logical leaps. E.g. "If you think washing babies is good, why not drown them in bleach?!" She does it for comic effect; what's your excuse?

Since you are an idiot, let me spell it out for you.
1) Money is not strongly correlated with intelligence.
2) Anim called someone an idiot.
3) You defended that accusation by claiming that the accused was rich and therefore his criticism was not valid.
4) As long as 1 is true, your defense is a non sequitur, and therefore your defense and counter are useless.
Nothing about calling you out for making shitty useless arguments involves a crazy logical leap. You defended someone against the accusation that they are stupid by pointing out they have money. It was a stupid thing to do, but it was also what you actually did. Calling you out for saying that stupid thing requires no logical leaps at all.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Dogbert
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Post by Dogbert » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:09 am

So, the PHB is out... did anyone bite?
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fectin
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Post by fectin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:24 pm

Not only is 1 simply not true (seriously; cite anything other than that laughable Zagorsky paper), 3 is an especially silly strawman.
More fundamentally though, your formulation only even approaches coherency if you assume that animea was making a specific claim about FatR's family's intelligence. Since no one who either bothered to read the thread or possessed the merest modicum of intelligence would actually think that, I assume your non-sequitur of a post is some sort of bizarre performance art. If so, well played: you've packed more different ways of being wrong into less text than anyone yet.
TL;DR no U.

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:06 pm

fectin, FatR responded to my statement that you can't buy a house with pennies by claiming that I was retarded on the grounds that he had bought property with cash. That's already a non sequitur. FatR didn't refute or even address my statement. I have no idea how or why you think defending him is a good idea. He said something dumb, and people laughed at him. The end.
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fectin
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Post by fectin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:36 pm

What dumb thing did FatR say, Frank?
You claimed, specifically:

> FrankTrollman wrote:physical currency stops being linearly additive after a point. Your house is valuable enough that it is well beyond the point at which physical currency stops being twice as valuable when there is twice as much of it. The inconvenience of having piles of it stops being negligible when you can no longer see over the piles. Hell, the inconvenience is pretty noticeabe when the piles are merely large enough that you can't quickly enumerate how much is in them. If someone wants to buy your house, they need to use cheques or bank transfers or some other kind of portable form of large value.

and he offered an empirical counterexample. I don't know why he thought that rebutted your larger point, but I also don't know why you went down this rabbit hole in the first place.
Regardless, animea's "having a bunch of cash indicates retardism" point was what I actually responded to. It was, is, and will continue to be ludicrous. Kaelik jumped in because Kaelik, and now here we are.

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:15 pm

fectin, don't be an asshole. FatR didn't cut off the important part of the quote, you don't gain anything by cutting it yourself. All you show is that you're a dishonest fuckwit who can't even pretend to have an argument without cherry picking portions of peoples' statements to construct virtual straw men.
Go. Fuck. Yourself.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:33 pm

> Dogbert wrote:So, the PHB is out... did anyone bite?

I've sold some, so yes, people have bitten. I haven't looked through it myself, though.
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fectin
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Post by fectin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:51 pm

I don't like to offend people by accident; if what I wrote was confusing, I sincerely apologize.
But I quoted the part that was relevant. I guess I could have taken a longer section and bolded what I quoted instead, but this seemed easier. The context for the quote is this thread. I shouldn't need to repeat your whole statement, because it's already here, in this thread. It's not like this was weeks or months ago either; you just wrote it.

> Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.

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