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## Defense of the Assholes 2

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icyshadowlord
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### Defense of the Assholes 2

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Post by icyshadowlord » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:31 am

Since there was a thread dedicated to League of Legends, I figured why not have one for DotA as well?
For my own contribution, I used to play DotA back in the Warcraft III days, and nowadays play DotA 2 on occastion.
I still need to try out some heroes (mostly Support types), but so far I've had the best matches as Spirit Breaker, Ursa and Sven.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation

> sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.

> virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.

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MGuy
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Post by MGuy » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:07 pm

I haven't been back to Dota since I stopped playing WC3: Frozen Throne but it is thanks to that that I was caught on quickly with HoN and then LoL. I remember that my best character was Zeus/Thunderbringer* and the (Dwarven*) Sniper. Needless to say I went mid a lot. They are pretty simple character with a pretty much all or nothing kind of set up. By that I mean they have no escape mechanism so once you're caught you pretty much fight or die unless you get an item that'll allow you to escape.
* = basically the same character in HoN with the names changed.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

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icyshadowlord
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Post by icyshadowlord » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:45 am

I wonder if there are any people even playing HoN nowadays, or DotA 1 for that matter.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation

> sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.

> virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.

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koz
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Post by koz » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:55 am

> icyshadowlord wrote:I wonder if there are any people even playing HoN nowadays, or DotA 1 for that matter.

I play HoN pretty regularly. The reports of its death continue to be greatly exaggerated.
Everything I learned about DnD, I learned from Frank Trollman.

> Kaelik wrote:You are so full of Strawmen that I can only assume you actually shit actual straw.

> souran wrote:...uber, nerd-rage-inducing, minutia-devoted, pointless blithering shit.

> Schwarzkopf wrote:The Den, your one-stop shop for in-depth analysis of Dungeons & Dragons and distressingly credible threats of oral rape.

> DSM wrote:Apparently, The GM's Going To Punch You in Your Goddamned Face edition of D&D is getting more traction than I expected. Well, it beats playing 4th. Probably 5th, too.

> Frank Trollman wrote:Giving someone a mouth full of cock is a standard action.

> PoliteNewb wrote:If size means anything, it's what position you have to get in to give a BJ.

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icyshadowlord
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Post by icyshadowlord » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:17 am

Any reason why you haven't switched over to DotA 2 ?
Last edited by icyshadowlord on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation

> sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.

> virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.

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koz
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Post by koz » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:26 am

> icyshadowlord wrote:Any reason why you haven't switched over to DotA 2 ?

I like HoN's power level more, I'm not a fan of Steam as a client, the aesthetics of DotA2 don't appeal to me, and there's too much grognard appeasement in DotA2. Plus, my friends play HoN.
Everything I learned about DnD, I learned from Frank Trollman.

> Kaelik wrote:You are so full of Strawmen that I can only assume you actually shit actual straw.

> souran wrote:...uber, nerd-rage-inducing, minutia-devoted, pointless blithering shit.

> Schwarzkopf wrote:The Den, your one-stop shop for in-depth analysis of Dungeons & Dragons and distressingly credible threats of oral rape.

> DSM wrote:Apparently, The GM's Going To Punch You in Your Goddamned Face edition of D&D is getting more traction than I expected. Well, it beats playing 4th. Probably 5th, too.

> Frank Trollman wrote:Giving someone a mouth full of cock is a standard action.

> PoliteNewb wrote:If size means anything, it's what position you have to get in to give a BJ.

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Nachtigallerator
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Post by Nachtigallerator » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:10 pm

I picked up DotA while still fooling around with WC3 custom maps, but eventually got frustrated with playing outside of my circle because the level of frothing nerdrage I used to get was intolerable. Then I dropped out altogether, until a friend passed me beta keys for DotA2.
Well, the language has definitely gotten better, and with the expanded playerbase, I don't need to be quite as good anymore to be useful. Plus you occasionally meet nice people now, which is quite bewildering. I currently postpone playing until my exams are over (DotA eats time in a way that no other game does ..) after that, I'll probably resume.
I'm afraid to pick carries and not really used to most of the Strength heroes, but can usually do an acceptable job with Nukers and some supports. For some reason, I really like Death Prophet.
Spirit Breaker is just nuts in the early to mid game, of course. One of my funniest games was with SB where Lion cared enough to coordinate with my charges. That stunlock was a thing of beauty.
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MGuy
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Post by MGuy » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:41 pm

> Mister_Sinister wrote:

> > icyshadowlord wrote:Any reason why you haven't switched over to DotA 2 ?

> I like HoN's power level more, I'm not a fan of Steam as a client, the aesthetics of DotA2 don't appeal to me, and there's too much grognard appeasement in DotA2. Plus, my friends play HoN.

I was playing HoN since it first came out and only stopped because for whatever reason LoL caught on with my friends that play MOBA games. Don't really know why. LoL is honestly less demanding than HoN imo so I guess there's that. I still play HoN albeit VERY rarely. It still seems to have a good deal of players as far as I can tell.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

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Nachtigallerator
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Post by Nachtigallerator » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:56 pm

I've been playing a lot of DotA2 again, and have to reaffirm my love for Death Prophet. She starts up a bit slowly, but if you have someone to eat a few nukes and stuns for you, her ultimate is the horror in teamfights. I've won and helped carry games with a terrible item build and multiple early deaths, just because Exorcism hurts so much.
Plus, rampaging through the enemy base and towers with a girl band of murderous crazy ghost-remnants is such fun.
Also starting to like Necrophos, though my teammates will probably not like me very much. I tend to throw Reaper's Scythe on anything with low enough health when it's off cooldown
Of course, right after the release of two new heroes is an annoying time to play because every idiot thinks he can play a hero that is, in all likelihood, completely new to him. Quit last game because of a terrible Phoenix.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:54 am

Phoenix still seems like a bad hero, with the high health cost on his abilities. But that art is gorgeous.
Also, the blink dagger and meepo buffs make me cry.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Dominicius
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Post by Dominicius » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:46 am

HoN has a few good heroes unique to it but the main reason to be playing it is the fact that it does not have turn speed.
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Nachtigallerator
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Post by Nachtigallerator » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:28 pm

Just blazed through an epic length game with Warlock. Did I mention how cool it feels to kill someone with Shadow Word? Nobody sees it coming.
Also fantastic how you can win a teamfight with golems even though you're dead.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:27 am

So I started the tutorial, and nearly instantly I was in the mood to murder people with a sword.
And by that I mean, everyone in any way involved in designing that tutorial.
But okay, so I quit out of the tutorial before completing the first mission, and started a bot game. Sure, I have no idea what any of the fucking champions and items do, because I only read like 50 pages of wiki as prep for playing this game, and still don't know anything, but fuck, whatever.
And immediately I want to murder every human being who ever worked on or played this game.
Like, I think LoL is stupid in refusing to (but then kind of saying they are working on it, but it is trivially easy, so they probably aren't going to until literally every single human being universally agrees that it is obviously the right move, but they say they are working on it) add fucking timers for jungle camps.
Because it is substituting skill in something meaningless and shitty in place of skills that are actually worthwhile to test.
But DOTA is actually the ruler of all the worlds at this. Because you have to contribute the first six years of playing this shitty game to learning to use the shittiest interface that has ever existed in the history of the universe.
You can't buy items by double clicking them. Because fuck you. You can't sort items by anything sensible at all. The Shop window is tiny and hard to see on your screen, because they can't make it take up the full window because... well because they put special shops in the middle of combat zones for some reason, but as punishment, you literally cannot use the shop in your fucking base either.
Abilities... are fucking retarded. You have to hit a button to level up skills, and then hit the skills. And the reason this is because they took fuctionality that should have been on the basic button press and put it on Ctrl Alt q on some champions. ANd oh yeah, you have at least 5 abilities that you can level up on each champion. But only four show up on the actual bar for you to see. So maybe I need to press O F or maybe O D. I can't tell, to level up my secret hidden passive. I can only hope that on champs that actually use that ability slot, like Invoker, it actually shows up on their hotbar. But I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't because fuck people who don't know how to use our clunky as shit interface, be more skilled (at what, reading wikis and remembering shit that should be prominently displayed in the fucking game?)
Like did you know that in League of Legends level fucking 5 newbies playing their first fucking non bot game can make intelligent choices between different items? They can, through the magic of a not shitty interface.
And yes, the inability to Back is a stupid fucking thing, and it is dumb as shit, but at least it is a stupid fucking gameplay decision, which in my mind makes it literally infinity times better than everything else that it wrong with this fucking shit game.
Oh I forgot. You can't fucking click on anything. You champion literally won't auto attack the nearest enemy unless you a move. If you just click, they will move to the new location, and then stop, and not fucking do anything while the enemy champs kills them. Because why auto attack nearby enemies?
And how about last hitting, surely there is no possible way that a game the prides itself so much on the last hitting skill makes it harder to last hit than League just by having a shitty interface right? Oh wait, yes it did. Because when you click on an enemy minion, it shows their HP where it used to show yours, and then when you move, or attack, or fucking move at all, like to get closer to the minion to auto attack it at the right time, it goes back to showing your health, so you don't know when to attack.
Now yes, don't get me wrong, in League, and maybe 200 games into DOTA, I rarely need to click on minions to auto them at the right time, because I have the feel for what the champions I've played tons of times are going to do to the minions I've killed hundreds of thousands, or at least millions of. But for fucks sake, that doesn't mean the option to fucking see minion HP while moving should be fucking taken out of the game.
Last edited by Kaelik on Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:32 am

Dota has one of the most astoundingly terrible user interfaces I've ever seen on a video game, and it is actively refused to be improved because grognards.
It is, fortunately, somewhat scriptable to make it better, though some of the worse parts (the non-uniform size of the bottom UI for example) can't be changed through scripting. But at least putting range circles for your abilities is possible, because unlike LoL where that shit is considered basic design they don't even do that in Dota.
http://www.dnd-wiki.org -- the wiki
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MGuy
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Post by MGuy » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:37 am

Well I'm glad my friend and I aren't the only ones who found the tutorial for this game unbearable. Honestly, I was going to give it an honest try but the tutorial made me stop. It felt like I was being taught to play the game by Dora the Explorer.
Last edited by MGuy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:19 am

> MGuy wrote:Well I'm glad my friend and I aren't the only ones who found the tutorial for this game unbearable. Honestly, I was going to give it an honest try but the tutorial made me stop. It felt like I was being taught to play the game by Dora the Explorer.

The four minutes fucking video that teaches you only one difference between dota 2 and League that they have two barracks instead of one inhib, was pretty bad. But then the mandatory auto lock camera in the single person adventure thing was maddening. And they part where you can't keep track of minion health while moving to fucking learn how to last hit in the tutorial where you are supposed to learn about how to last hit... That didn't help.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Nachtigallerator
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Post by Nachtigallerator » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:51 pm

@Kaelik: There should be an option to always show hitpoint bars - at least there is one in my installation. I think there's an auto-attack option too, but even in DotA1 it was consensus that turning it on messes with your last-hitting.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:15 pm

> Nachtigallerator wrote:@Kaelik: There should be an option to always show hitpoint bars - at least there is one in my installation. I think there's an auto-attack option too, but even in DotA1 it was consensus that turning it on messes with your last-hitting.

The thing is that I already constantly move except when I need to last hit anyway. So literally the only thing that it does prevent me from attacking enemy champions until after I click on them.
It isn't the HP bar that I want to see, I want to see the numbers. This is an extremely out of date picture of League of Legends.
See in the top left hand corner, and then a little to the right is the enemy's X/Y HP. That is your current target. People use it most commonly for smite wars, because you can click on Baron/Dragon/Blue and see the HP, and keep track of when to smite.
But you can also use it to click on a minion, and see 275/300 or whatever. So when your AD is 75, and it says 76/300, you know not to attack it until one more caster minion shot hits it. It is a difference that is too small for the naked eye to detect on hp bars, and it is really helpful in the very early game when your ad is not much more than a minion, and obviously less meaningful later when your ad and attack speed are both higher.
But since I have never played any champion I am attempting to play in Dota, and I haven't played with dota minions, I straight up do not have the feel necessary to last hit based on minion hp bars at low level.
The Dota interface, because it is shitty shit made by shitholes, puts the target bar of your enemies at the bottom, where your hp is, because it is modelled after a RTS engine mod, so it uses shit like multiple unit selection, and unlike a well designed interface, chooses to treat all units equally. So when you click on an enemy minion, and then move your character, it goes back to showing your champion's HP and refuses to show your "target's" HP.
Last edited by Kaelik on Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:28 am

I think DotA 2 is more fun to play with friends than LoL, but more annoying to play alone.
Also goblin techies is slated for release. Without any revision (or so I'm told). I wonder who thought that was a good idea.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Nachtigallerator
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Post by Nachtigallerator » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:17 pm

@Kaelik: Thanks, now I get it. That does seem pretty useful, and yes, DotA2 doesn't have it. The interface is purposefully built to be almost exactly like in WC3 because that's where a lot of the players (me included) came from, but I can see how it's inferior.
If I recall correctly, techies were a marginal hero in DotA1, so perhaps no revision is needed. They can get a lot of kills on careless players, but most dangerous paths can actually be avoided or countered with warding or buying a goddamned gem - a friend of mine noted that with frustration when he tried to plan out pwnage strategies for techies.
That being said, buying that goddamn gem (or buying that goddamned dust before you try to gank Invoker) is a serious problem in my games .. I do play a lot of support, but I can't buy every common sense item we need.
I'm more excited about Oracle and Winter Wyvern. Never got to play the two in the old game, but they sound like my kind of thing.
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icyshadowlord
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Post by icyshadowlord » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:18 am

> ...You Lost Me wrote:I think DotA 2 is more fun to play with friends than LoL, but more annoying to play alone.
> Also goblin techies is slated for release. Without any revision (or so I'm told). I wonder who thought that was a good idea.

Unless they can make the Techies less cheap than they were back in DotA 1, their release will mark the end of my DotA 2 gaming.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation

> sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.

> virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.

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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:15 am

The problem with techies is he's all about cheesing your opponent. If the enemy team is noobish or just doesn't have enough gold, Techies turns DotA2 into DotA2 + randomly getting one-shot without any opportunity to fight back. If the enemy team is any good at all, Techies is useless.
When you play Techies, you either stomp a bunch of noobs who don't understand invisible mines, you randomly kill people while slowly losing your team the game, or you quickly lose your team the game because it's a 4v5 and all you can do is suicide. Techies' kit is toxic design and it makes 9/10 people in your game hate you.
EDIT: Trying different comps with friends. One of our new ones was Global Pressure: Silencer, Nature's Prophet, Zeus, and Spectre make a horrifying team.
Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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icyshadowlord
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Post by icyshadowlord » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:26 pm

Why is Doom so fun to play?
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation

> sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.

> virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.

Top

icyshadowlord
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  Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:52 pm

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Post by icyshadowlord » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:11 pm

...huh, seems this thread has gone on for a while without activity.
Anyway, Techies came out and I thought it would lead me to quitting DotA.
It didn't. Nobody picks Techies, because they're as easy to play as pro level Meepo.
So instead of starting to post on the League thread, anyone here been having some Techies experiences to share?
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation

> sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.

> virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.

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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:34 pm

Every game I played with a Techies, I lost. Every game I played against a Techies, I won. Techies just needs to go. Ugh.
I really want to see Winter Wyvern get ported over.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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