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## Char Ops in New World of Darkness (Vampire)?

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Libertad
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### Char Ops in New World of Darkness (Vampire)?

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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:21 am

Because fuck it, why not?
So, I'm primarily a Vampire, Hunter, and Mage guy. There's no way in hell I'd run a crossover game, and if I started a game I'd start with Vampire.
So hit me. What should I look out for to prevent me from sucking? What crazy overpowered shit breaks the game?
Some things I spotted:
Stuff which grants you extra attacks: Gunslinger, Combat Marksman, and Ambidexterity. It's pretty easy to drop a target with superior numbers. Effectively getting 24-30 dice pool in a single round is overkill.
Social Merits are open-ended: Open-ended stuff is more dependent upon Storyteller judgment, but it can still be powerful. Exactly what can you do with 5 dots in Allies (police) instead of 4 dots? How about 3 dots in Status (Invictus)? Also, Resources is the bee's knees, in that it allows you to buy all sorts of cool stuff.
Vampire weaknesses are unbalanced: The Mekhet weakness only comes into play when you're being effected by stuff which vampires avoid like the plague (1 extra damage from fire and sunlight). The Gangrel's weakness really cripples him (survival, perception, quick-thinking), including stuff which is associated with "primal predators."
I get the strange feeling this thread might already exist on TGD, but I haven't spotted it.
Last edited by Libertad on Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Whipstitch » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:51 am

Here's Frank's take on core vampire disciplines from the nWoD Failed Design thread to get you started. Short version: Yes, superior numbers are better than you. Yes, this is way frightening when you consider that nWoD makes whipping up a hobo/stray dog army pretty easy.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:00 am

The Coils of the Dragon seem really overpriced, except for the 1st Coil of Blood (hold off on spending Vitae to "wake up" several days). Are there any Coils which are actually worth the experience cost?
Also, assuming that a Storyteller runs a game using the Predator's Taint, what's the best way to survive potential TPKs? Just buy dots in Obfuscate?
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Post by Whipstitch » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:45 am

Yeah, the opportunity cost on Coils is pretty intense compared to just going Invictus and using the discount to pick up a couple convenience merits with the spare XP you found under your couch.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:27 am

Okay, let's talk about Covenants now. Carthians and Invictus get you reduced costs on certain Merits. Ordo Dracul gives you... Coils. Lancea Sanctum and Circle of the Crone give you their respective freaky blood sorcery. You can even be a double agent and join two covenants (but this limits your Status dots), gaining the benefits of both.
Which do you find preferable, Cruac or Theban Sorcery?
If I wanted to pull this, which covenants would be the best match-ups? I was thinking a political covenant (Carthian/Invictus) with a mystical one (Lancea/Circle) to gain both magic and reduced costs.
Thoughts?
And since it will happen: What is the best advice you can give if my Vamp crew's surrounded by cultists/gangsters/goons and outnumbered? Turn invisible with Obfuscate, lob a grenade, surrender, what?
Last edited by Libertad on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:32 am

> Libertad wrote:The Coils of the Dragon seem really overpriced, except for the 1st Coil of Blood (hold off on spending Vitae to "wake up" several days). Are there any Coils which are actually worth the experience cost?

Interesting that you should call out the Coils of Blood, because that's the good one. The first level is a joke. It costs XPs, but it is almost meaningless. The second level is boss, if and only if you have a very high blood potency. So admittedly, the second level is not something you care about over much as a starting character and the game is unlikely to last long enough for you to ever care about it.
The third level of Coils of Blood is the one you want. Holy shit. In a game where you can heal up from any battle with enough blood, level 3 Coils of Blood gives you unlimited blood. Every time you drain one blood from a fellow coterie member, you get two. Then you can let them drain one from you and you've gained a blood point in exchange for nothing.
Of course, one of the weird things about Coils is that the cost goes up on other coils once you've taken any coil. Getting in on the ground floor of any other Coil would be like buying the 4th level of an out-of-clan discipline. And that is fucked. So at some point, someone in the coterie should buy up to Coils of Blood 3. Neither they nor anyone else will ever buy any other coils at any point.

> Also, assuming that a Storyteller runs a game using the Predator's Taint, what's the best way to survive potential TPKs? Just buy dots in Obfuscate?

Mask of Tranquility halves the number of die rolls you have to make to see if social interaction is even possible. It makes you generate one roll to see if the game ends on a stupid downer note instead of two every time you meet an NPC. But you're still fucked.
Really, the best way to get through with a storyteller who wants to use the Predator's Taint rules is to not have Mask of Tranquility. Or at least, don't turn it on. The moment your group of four meets a group of NPCs and the rules call for thirty two die rolls to see if a fight breaks out, the storyteller is going to circular file the pradator's taint rules. Guaranteed. I have never seen a storyteller who ran into that piece of bullshit not immediately bin the taint rules. The second level of Obfuscate is otherwise worthless, because the other big draw is supposed to be that it lets you fool people with the second level of Auspex into thinking you aren't a vampire - but it specifically doesn't fool people who also have the first level of Auspex, which literally every single character with the second level of Auspex also has.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:36 am

I updated my previous post with more questions.

> FrankTrollman wrote:
> The third level of Coils of Blood is the one you want. Holy shit. In a game where you can heal up from any battle with enough blood, level 3 Coils of Blood gives you unlimited blood. Every time you drain one blood from a fellow coterie member, you get two. Then you can let them drain one from you and you've gained a blood point in exchange for nothing.

Yeah, I can see most Storytellers smacking this down as an infinite blood loop; I don't think I can see this getting successfully pulled off in a game.
Thanks for the spot, though.
Last edited by Libertad on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Username17 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:57 am

> Libertad wrote:What is the best advice you can give if my Vamp crew's surrounded by cultists/gangsters/goons and outnumbered? Turn invisible with Obfuscate, lob a grenade, surrender, what?

Drop concussion grenades at your own feet. I am not kidding. Explosions of that type do automatic bashing damage to everyone in the room. That will drop all the cultists in the room and keep them that way for minutes. It will also drop all the vampires in the room, but they wake up by reflexively paying one blood each, so it's no big deal.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:59 am

Lets talk about weapons. Even though they deal bashing, is there any reason I wouldn't use a gun on a vampire instead of a sword or bladed object? Guns are ranged, have autofire capability, and are more concealable than swords. Is there any practical reason to go into melee?
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Post by Username17 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:24 am

> Libertad wrote:Lets talk about weapons. Even though they deal bashing, is there any reason I wouldn't use a gun on a vampire instead of a sword or bladed object? Guns are ranged, have autofire capability, and are more concealable than swords. Is there any practical reason to go into melee?

If you're facing against powerful vampire overlords, their healing budget is like 3 blood a turn for the foreseeable future. That is about 6 bashing that they can heal reflexively each turn, compared with only 3 lethal. And if your storyteller thinks Celerity is worth using, they are going to be getting their defense against your gun anyway. Plus, if you invest in magic weapons, you'll be doing agg damage, which is basically another couple of points a turn they can't heal. And then there's the noise issue, which may or may not be a problem. And some of the martial arts and styles and shit stack in some pretty silly ways.
It's certainly defensible to have a sword or greataxe rather than a gun. I mean, it still sucks compared to grenades and mind sorcery. But if for some reason you insist on dueling people with weapons, it is entirely plausible to do so with a melee weapon if that's what you want.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:37 am

Ghoul servants. Overrated, or vital? Leaning towards the latter myself.
Last edited by Libertad on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:12 pm

> Libertad wrote:Ghoul servants. Overrated, or vital? Leaning towards the latter myself.

It depends on how nerfed it is by MC-fiat.
Consider the Coils of Blood. At level 3 it is an infinite blood hack. I have found that Storytellers are extremely reluctant to let that into play, but that they usually relent on the grounds that it literally does not do anything other than act as an infinite blood hack. There's no wiggle room because without generating blood for nothing (well, nothing other than blood bonds, which aren't a bad thing if they are between PCs), it has no effect at all. There's no "lesser version" the storyteller could rule it to be, because the potentially objectionable part is 100% of the parts.
Ghoul servants on the other hand, are a way bigger deal. In a game where having a posse makes you win at every single thing you could hope to attempt, ghoul servants are a source of highly loyal and potentially very numerous posse members. That is better than an infinite blood engine. It's better than an insta-kill attack, and it's better than nigh limitless wealth.
But the Storyteller has a lot of wiggle room here. Just because you ghouled up eight cops doesn't mean that they'll let you actually have them show up in combats.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:10 pm

Let's talk about Humanity. You start at a score of 7 (lower if you want free experience), and it cannot be raised unless you pay through the the nose in experience points (3 times the next dot level).
Lower Humanity leads to lower social dice pool cap with mortals, increased frenzy, longer torpor, and eventually becoming an NPC/Draugr.
Now, killing someone is a Humanity 3 sin, meaning that a violent character's going to be rolling degeneration rolls all the time. And it's a Humanity 8 sin to inflict violence upon another, ruling Humanity 8 vampires out for most campaigns.
So, is there an optimal Humanity to remain at? I'd assume around 5 (not too high nor too low).
Last edited by Libertad on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:48 pm

> Libertad wrote:Let's talk about Humanity. You start at a score of 7 (lower if you want free experience), and it cannot be raised unless you pay through experience out the nose (3 times the next dot level).
> Lower Humanity leads to lower social dice pool cap with mortals, increased frenzy, longer torpor, and eventually becoming an NPC/Draugr.
> Now, killing someone is a Humanity 3 sin, meaning that a violent character's going to be rolling degeneration rolls all the time. And it's a Humanity 8 sin to inflict violence upon another, ruling Humanity 8 vampires out for most campaigns.
> So, is there an optimal Humanity to remain at? I'd assume around 5 (not too high nor too low).

The key to humanity is that you lose humanity for taking shit that isn't yours and lose more humanity for taking stuff that belongs to rich people than you do for kicking the crap out of homeless people. The humanity hierarchy of sins is fucking insane, and in most cases Storytellers will not actually inflict it on you if you just don't bring it up.
So for example: you kick in the door and the cannibal cultists are there, as expected. They draw their flaying knives and you quickly dispatch them and rescue the hostage. You take the artifact so that you can get it researched and find out what the ritual was supposed to do and blah blah blah. Now, most Storytellers wouldn't hit you with a Humanity check at all. What you're doing is necessary and justified, so why force a check at all? But if you actually read the nWoD Humanity list, you're fucked. It's a Humanity 6 sin to take the idol because it's expensive and it's not yours (grand theft). It's a Humanity 5 sin to break down the door in the first place (property damage, intentional). It's a Humanity 4 sin to kill the cultists who were coming after you (manslaughter). It's a Humanity 3 sin to decide to go to the cultist hideout in the first place (planned killing). And it's a Humanity 2 sin because you killed a group of people whose names you didn't even know (casual killing). Your bog standard RPG scenario could seriously drop you to Humanity 1 with bad rolls and the Humanity 1 sins aren't even defined ("Utter Perversion"), so that might trigger too.
The reality of the Humanity rules is that they apply (and only apply) when you do something that the Storyteller doesn't approve of. Killing villains and taking their stuff is supposed to make you bottom out as a raving beast, but most times Storytellers won't even make you roll because the behavior is expected and justified. On a similar note: background feeding won't make you roll for degeneration because by happening off camera it doesn't run any risk of squicking the Storyteller. This is despite the fact that in the actual rules, performing crimes like feeding on people as if they were "casual" or "routine" is a one-way ticket to insanity. Describing your feeding in detail is probably going to get the Storyteller to smack you with degeneration rolls because they don't really want to hear you talk about that shit.
Bottom line: nWoD Humanity rules don't work. Like, at all. And the way you "min/max" them is by avoiding actions that make the Storyteller think about them in any way.
But to the extent they come up: the correct choice as always is to know Dominate and then just perform all "social" activities as role played MTP so that your low dice pools don't matter.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:47 pm

Cruac and Theban Sorcery. Overall, are the blood magic rituals worth it?
Also, there seems to be more support for Cruac overall in supplements. I might be wrong, though.
Last edited by Libertad on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:46 pm

> Libertad wrote:Cruac and Theban Sorcery. Overall, are the blood magic rituals worth it?

"Worth it" is a big yes. Magical rituals aren't really different than random powers out of disciplines, but you're allowed to cherry pick and getting a level 1, 2, and 3 ritual only costs 12 XP compared to the 42 you'd spend to get levels 1, 2, and 3 of a new discipline. Almost all of the rituals are shit that is made out of actual shit, but the very dumpster diving nature of it and the fact that every time you buy an extra ritual it's like buying another discipline dot but eighty one percent cheaper means that it would be totally sweet so long as there are any diamonds in the rough at all. Which of course, there are.

> Also, there seems to be more support for Cruac overall in supplements. I might be wrong, though.

I genuinely have no idea. I've never done a point by point comparison. Sorcery lists are really painful to go through. There's the Cruac ritual where you spend an action causing a vampire a slight inconvenience, and of course there's the Theban Sorcery bit where you draw something and then use the power of God to have there be a mark right where you drew (I so wish I was making that up). But there are chunks of gold in there.
Theban Sorcery is in general better, in that it doesn't require you to have a lower Humanity and it always works (you get to roll dice each round until you get the requisite successes). But you have to wade through some seriously stupid Christian bullshit to get to what it does.
There are of course a bunch of extra rituals in the Circle of the Crone and Lancea Sanctum books, but those are really terrible books and you still don't want to read them. I think it is important to note that "Devotions" share the Ritual trait of being cheap as fuck and totally dumpster divable. Also note that some Devotions become available just for joining up with some faction or another. The Invictus have a bunch of oaths they can get, and while most of them are useless, there are some gems there too. I mean seriously, it costs 5 only XP to get the oath where the whole coterie swears to do something and then they all get 10 Willpower and +2 Blood Potency while working towards that goal. The contract where let yourself or allies turn their Willpower dots into Discipline dots only costs 12.
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Post by Whipstitch » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:04 pm

> Libertad wrote: Also, there seems to be more support for Cruac overall in supplements. I might be wrong, though.

It's an easy impression to come to. Pagan fluff gets scattered all over the place in nWoD whereas when they bring the Jebus they bring it in hard and fast. So the Theban stuff tends to stay in the Lancea book where it belongs whereas the Circle of the Crone gets name dropped constantly even when they're talking about sorceries that are mechanically speaking their own distinct discipline.
Anyway, I also generally prefer Theban sorcery if you can stomach the fluff, particularly since Vitae Reliquary is corebook, rank 1 and a nice way to feed elders even if you rarely find yourself needing emergency blood yourself.
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Post by Libertad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:32 pm

Has anybody done an analysis of the Bloodlines?
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Post by Whipstitch » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:32 am

Not that I've seen. Honestly, it's a tall order. There's a fuck ton of them, and a lot depends on what the storyteller decides to do with access to "unique" disciplines given that WW is so incredibly wishy washy on what people can learn. Plus, the real power is bound to be tucked away in the many, many bloodline devotions. Christ, I can't even think of this topic without getting preemptively annoyed with the bits of powergaming I either missed or have forgotten about. Nwod is stupid bloated.
Off the top of my head here's my two favorite types of Ventrue to play, for whatever that's worth. Bear in mind that I haven't read all of the books though.
Mellissidae: Ah, the Queen Bees. These are the hive Ventrue frank mentioned and they are stupidly good. They don't get a unique bloodline discipline but they do get nutty devotions and explicit access to Auspex along with the usual Ventrue Dominate/Animalism shtick, so you can just pump everything into three of the best corebook disciplines at clan/bloodline prices and nobody will question your life choices. And, hypothetically, if someone did question you, then you would mindfuck them. Unless. of course, you were feeling saucy, in which case you crush them underfoot, because you have a busload of mooks in a game where people don't get soak rolls. You suffer a scaling penalty from being away from your drones for too long though, which can kinda suck. Still, if there's a bloodline with more tools than the Queen Bees, I don't remember who they are. Be careful lest the MC swat you with the nerf bat though.
Canda Bhanu: These guys are a good choice if the MC gives you the stink eye at the mere mention of Swarm Communion. Again, you get Auspex on your list which may be super nice or mean fuck all, but you also get a fairly decent and easy to access devotion that lets you pick out the leader of any group plus bonus dice to socializing with that group, so you can chat people up nicely without having to resort to mindfuckery. That makes being an Auspex powered investigator/social monkey is pretty viable. Their bloodline drawback means that people get a blood tie bonus when hitting you with mindfuckery, but that's often largely academic given that it's nWoD and defenders are already hosed anyway since the authors can't do basic math.
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Post by Libertad » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:27 am

The Melissidae are a rare instance of Gameplay and Story Integration. They're overpowered, and everybody in the know in the game world is aware of this. Simply being one in most domains is ground for execution, and the flavor text remarks upon how dangerous they can get with their hive mind.
So... props to the writers for making something intentionally overpowered instead of accidental?
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Post by Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:16 am

Just as a note to the OP. For powerful stuff, you need to take a page from Frank and concentrate on powers that just kill people. Below is a power that just kills people:
Transubstantiation from Vampire the Requiem
(Level-Five Theban Sorcery Ritual)
The character transforms one substance or object into
another. It can be water into blood, for example, or a tree
branch into a snake, or a person into a pillar of salt. The
object or substance transformed becomes a perfectly normal,
mundane version of whatever it is. Transubstantiation
does not turn a frog into a Lupine, for example, though
it could change a frog into a wolf. The only limits on the
transformation are that it works only on objects smaller
than the caster, and that the product cannot simulate human
(or vampiric…) intelligence. That is, the same frog
could be transformed into a child, but the child wouldn’t
be able to have any intelligent discourse or even perform
many complicated activities since it’s just a frog turned into
the simulacrum of a child. The substance or object reverts
to its original form when the sun next rises (though a person
transformed into, say, ice and whose arm is broken off
has both portions of herself turn back to normal in different
locations, and swiftly bleeds to death).
If this power is used to affect another creature, the invocation
is contested, pitting the sorcerer’s Intelligence + Academics
+ Theban Sorcery against the subject’s Stamina +
Blood Potency (resistance is reflexive). The sorcerer must be
within arm’s length of the subject changed.
Offering: A drop of liquid gold
All this ritual takes is one point of willpower and a drop of liquid gold. There's no specified limit in distance. There's no specification saying you even have to see your target. The power state that the transformation only works on objects smaller than you, but says nothing that you can't make the transformed objects enormous! So, use it directly on a creature from your sanctum as many times as it takes to work. Turn water and cardboard into US Dollars and go to town, and all sorts of useful things when you can transform substances into another at will.
But whatever you do, try to avoid playing the Mind's Eye Theater version of Vampire the Requiem. Take a look at the same power below.
TRANSUBSTANTIATION (LEVEL-FIVE THEBAN SORCERY RITUAL) from Mind's Eye Theater: Requiem
The character transforms one substance or object into another. It can be water into blood,
for example, or a tree branch into a snake, or a person into a pillar of salt. The object or
substance transformed becomes a generic, perfectly normal, mundane version of whatever
it is. Transubstantiation cannot turn a frog into a Lupine or a human into a Kindred, for
example, though it could change a frog into a wolf or a human into a bat. There are a few
additional limits on the transformation. It works only on targets of an equal or smaller Size
than the caster, and the result cannot simulate human or supernatural intelligence. In addition,
the result also cannot be larger than the caster unless several sorcerers participate.
That is, the same frog could be transformed into a child, but the child wouldn’t be able to
have any intelligent discourse or even perform many complicated activities since it’s just a
frog turned into the simulacrum of a child. Vampiric Disciplines cannot be used to possess
simulacra of living creatures. Lastly, unless the Storyteller specifi cally rules otherwise, this
ritual cannot be used to create sophisticated devices, extinct animals, rare elements or other
exotic creatures and substances. The ritual must result in a relatively mundane species or
material which appears in its normal state. Transubstantiating something into rock would
not for instance create lava. The substance or object reverts to its original form when the sun
next rises (though a person transformed into, say, ice and whose arm is broken off has both
portions of herself turn back to normal in different locations, and swiftly bleeds to death).
Supernatural creatures are unaffected by Transubstantiation.
If this power is used to affect another creature, the invocation is contested, pitting the
sorcerer’s Intelligence + Academics + Theban Sorcery against the subject’s Stamina (resistance
is refl exive). The sorcerer must be able to see the subject to be changed, be within arm’s
length of it, and in the case of an unwilling target, the victim must be completely restrained
or otherwise subdued for this ritual to work. Even sleeping targets will immediately awaken
to fi ght the power of this ritual. Objects held or worn by other characters cannot be changed
and attempts to use Transubstantiation on near-intangible objects such as air or ongoing
chemical reactions such as fi re usually fail.
At the Storyteller’s discretion, larger inanimate objects (but not living ones) may be transformed
using this ritual, but summoning the requisite mystical strength requires a number
of additional casters to participate in the ritual. Additional casters are defi ned as voluntary
participants who spend a Willpower point and somehow take part in the rite itself — holding
candles, drawing mystical symbols, chanting, et cetera. For every additional caster who actually
knows the ritual, every three casters who have at least Theban Sorcery 1 or every fi ve additional
casters who do not have any knowledge of Theban Sorcery (but still actively participate), the
maximum Size of the targeted object (or the resultant one) rises by two. No matter the number
or sorcerers, however, Transubstantiation can never affect objects larger than Size 15.
Offering: A drop of liquid gold
It's amazing that they wrote this piece of badly written psuedo-nerf. If the creature has to be restrained why is there a contested roll? Ah well, White Wolf sucks at balance and game mechanics writing anyway. This version is a lot less useful than the regular tabletop version, but you can still do useful stuff like transforming small objects to fall on your enemies or something.
It's funny cause Lancea Sanctum has some of the most useful rituals available to it, but many people don't read about it cause they're put off by the Christian flavor. Well, I say get over it and play the Lancea and use the rituals, cause it's heckava fun.
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Post by Red_Rob » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:36 am

> Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp wrote:All this ritual takes is one point of willpower and a drop of liquid gold. There's no specified limit in distance. There's no specification saying you even have to see your target.

O RLY?

> Transubstantiation wrote:The sorcerer must be within arm’s length of the subject changed.

Simplified Tome Armor.
Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.
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Post by Username17 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:10 am

Yeah, Transubstantiation is ridiculously powerful, but not because you can turn people into goo or anything. It's short range and you need to get a lot of hits before it activates, so it often takes two rounds. That, and you need liquid gold and gold is not liquid under normal circumstances, meaning that you need to spend quite a bit of time with a blow torch before you can even start casting (combat rounds are only a few seconds, so it's basically not available in normal combat time).
However, nothing is stopping you from spending a drop of gold to transform ordinary dirt into many pounds of gold. So once you cast it once, you can cast it as much as you want. Secondly, while you can't make anything magic, you are allowed to make objects of arbitrary complexity and expense. Not only can you make living things, there's nothing stopping you from making computers, rocket launchers, or even nuclear bombs.
It's only of those things that the Storyteller is probably going to stealth nerf into unrecognizability. As soon as they realize that it is not only limitless wealth but also limitless allies and even world-power levels of military equipment, they are going to freak. Expect that power to get nerfed into uselessness with such rulings as "mundane objects means only low quality Amish equipment you don't give a fuck about".
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Libertad
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Post by Libertad » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:53 pm

So, what's preventing the Lancea Sanctum alchemists from just creating Vitae out of liquid gold, also made out of liquid gold? Is it some hackneyed "don't use the Lord's powers in vain!" restriction?
Last edited by Libertad on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp
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Post by Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:10 am

There is no such restriction. In fact flavorwise, the Lancea Sanctum is justified in being downright immoral, greedy, and cruel because by being so while being a vampire serves as an abject lesson to humanity of the terror of God's wrath.
So yeah, the only thing stopping it is the Storyteller.
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