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## Animal Companion [Skill] Feat

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AndreiChekov
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### Animal Companion [Skill] Feat

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Post by AndreiChekov » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:01 pm

I wanted to play a ranger, so i made this feat and chose it as a tome fighter. (Along with track and Animal Affinity.)
Animal Companion [Skill]
You befriend an animal. It doesn't want to leave your side.
You get an animal companion as the druid ability. Your effective druid level is equal to your ranks in handle animal -3.
Last edited by AndreiChekov on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peace favour your sword.
I only play 3.x
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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:15 pm

Regardless of whether the feat is powerful or not, why can't this just scale implicitly? That's a whole lot of wasted text.
IE: "You have an effective druid level equal to your character level."
http://www.dnd-wiki.org -- the wiki
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AndreiChekov
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Post by AndreiChekov » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:40 pm

makes sense. I've edited it to that.
Peace favour your sword.
I only play 3.x
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:07 pm

Only if it's a boar.
Also, because that animal companion will fall off pretty hard, I'd make it druid level - 2. And also add a clause about being level 3 or higher to take the feat, to stop level 1 players from their wolf or whatever right at the beginning.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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AndreiChekov
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Post by AndreiChekov » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:47 am

I only recently got it to tome stuff. And discovering that the fighter was garbage was also recent. So I don't really understand how things become uneven at higher level, i just remember feeling useless as the party paladin.
Could you tell me what's bad about it at high levels please?
Peace favour your sword.
I only play 3.x
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:22 am

> AndreiChekov wrote:I only recently got it to tome stuff. And discovering that the fighter was garbage was also recent. So I don't really understand how things become uneven at higher level, i just remember feeling useless as the party paladin.
> Could you tell me what's bad about it at high levels please?

Sure!
Beginning past level 5, and certainly well in effect after level 10, a character's abilities have become more important than their raw numbers (to a degree).
At level 10, the Fighter...can stab things. At level 10, the Cleric can summon angels and demons and monsters, heal the sick, harm the wicked, travel to another dimension (plane shift), and they can even send someone to Hell while they're still alive (also plane shift). There's no amount of face-stabbing that comes close to the utility of that. AND the cleric can fight as well as the Fighter, thanks to Divine Power.
The problem also exists with the wizard--they get actual abilities and ways to affect the game world. Not numbers.
This isn't a problem with the casters though--it's a problem with the fighter. See, monsters also grow increasingly stronger and diverse in what they can do. Traditional fantasy says it should be possible to take a dragon in a one-on-one fight. That isn't going to happen in D&D, not with a Fighter or a Paladin. Everything in the game grows steadily more incredible and insane, but the melee fighters are expected to be realistic. By level 20, you should at least be pulling some serious God of War-type bullshit. But instead, a level 20 fighter doesn't get astoundingly strong. Sure, he can get stronger than a person here, but not Hercules or Roland strong. It's faintly possible that if he focused on Strength, he could get Beowulf-level strong. The fighters don't get inherently faster or more agile. All they get, is numbers.
By the same token, animals are pretty tame. Even a T-Rex is CR 8. D&D animals just don't get the stuff to be survivable or to contribute to the party as anything other than a transport, comic relief, or emergency rations.
Last edited by Maxus on Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
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AndreiChekov
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Post by AndreiChekov » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:31 am

Thank you.
The idea that came to mind right away was how the Druid's animal companion doesn't get larger with HD.
0: This feat does nothing at this level.
6: You get an animal companion as the druid ability. your effective druid level is equal to your ranks in handle animal -3.
9: Your animal companion increases in size with HD per the rules on p291 of the monster manual
14: Your animal companion gains blind sense 60 ft.
19: Whenever your animal companion successfully attacks an enemy, the target is also affected by Power Word Stun.
Flavor behind each of those.
-You animal companion should get bigger cause it gets fatter from feasting on the flesh of your dead enemies.
- You train your animal companion and it gets better at seeing things cause it loves you.
- It's like tripping a foe, only magical or something.
Peace favour your sword.
I only play 3.x
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:11 am

The fact that you have an animal companion like a druid - 3 makes this scale well enough. Having a huge-sized stunlocker that doesn't take any of your own actions is kind of a big deal.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Red_Rob
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Post by Red_Rob » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:13 am

YLM, this is a skill feat and scales with your ranks in Handle animal -3. So you get an animal companion as a Druid of your level.
Which seems fine to me. Just keep the exact wording of the Druid ability, I wouldn't even offer anything else. You can choose to beef up your current animal or have it pokevolve at different levels, if it dies you can recall it with a 24 hour ritual, the works.
Animal companions can provide benefits up to higher levels - a flying mount or grapple monster never really go out of fashion and another target for enemy SoD's is always worth a feat slot IMHO.
Simplified Tome Armor.
Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.
Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.
“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:02 am

Oh, I see that. I don't know, that definitely sets of warning bells in my head. At lower levels, that animal companion is a big source of damage output. Giving anyone a big source of damage output seems like a bad idea.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:46 am

You Lost Me, why are you even bothering to post in this thread.
This feat was clearly not made for a Tome game. I mean sure, he actually made it specifically for a Tome game, and he used the scaling mechanics advocated by Combat feats that we all use in Tome material... but... It doesn't say in the thread title [Tome] so it must not have been meant for the tome.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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AndreiChekov
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Post by AndreiChekov » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:12 am

You may notice that there is a restriction of 150hp or less on the stun locking. And you have to be level 16 for that. I looked through the MM for a couple hours before picking those abilities. I figured that 150 hp or less would basically just work on mooks and bosses you've already beaten anyway, making it a niche bonus.
The blindsense might be strong, but it doesn't affect the game too much, it just means you can sleep soundly, and your enemies stop getting cover... unless I missed something key there?
Growing large makes so that you can ride your eagle eventually. It doesn't increase damage that much. +8 str from medium to large is only +4 dmg with each attack.
Also it is exactly the same as the druid ability. "You get an animal companion as the druid ability." Not sure how to be clearer on that.
Peace favour your sword.
I only play 3.x
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:37 pm

> Kaelik wrote:My penis is kind of small.

So not only are you being so dumb as to take something from a completely unrelated thread and post it here (that's pretty dumb), and not only are you so dumb as to say that if something's on TGD I can't critique it unless it's tome (you're pretty dumb), but also:

> I wanted to play a ranger, so i made this feat and chose it as a tome fighter. (Along with track and Animal Affinity.)

You appear to be so dumb as to think that I can only make a judgment of any kind if the thread title says it, despite the fact that I can click on the thread and read it for context. Like, y'know, the way I couldn't with that post Iameki wrote on a completely different website before I even got here.
Yes, my research indicates that you're stupid. And now I'm done talking about your lack of intelligence on this thread--if you want to wave that thing around, take it to the thread it came from.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Red_Rob
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Post by Red_Rob » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:43 pm

> AndreiChekov wrote:Also it is exactly the same as the druid ability. "You get an animal companion as the druid ability." Not sure how to be clearer on that.

Sorry, I meant I don't think it needs all the extra abilities.
Advancing your animal companion by HD gives it extra feats, which in Tome land can give you juicy new powers. Alternatively, you can grow your Black bear into a Brown bear, then a Polar bear and get size and stat boosts that way. Layer a few magic items (Collar of Mighty fists?) and some barding on and you have a serviceable ally. By the way, a house rule we use is that when using Tome magic item rules, animals have half the normal number of item slots (4 rather than 8).

> You Lost Me wrote:At lower levels, that animal companion is a big source of damage output.

I dunno about that so much. Have you read the Handle Animal rules lately? It takes a move action to get an animal to do anything other than stay by your side while you walk, including stay in place, follow you somewhere the animal doesn't want to go (like near a big scary monster) or attack someone (and even then they will only attack humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals). Unless they know the Defend trick they won't even attack someone that is attacking you. Animal companions only get 1 free trick until third level, so they aren't really reliably useful for a while.
Simplified Tome Armor.
Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.
Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.
“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:02 pm

> AndreiChekov wrote:You may notice that there is a restriction of 150hp or less on the stun locking. And you have to be level 16 for that. I looked through the MM for a couple hours before picking those abilities. I figured that 150 hp or less would basically just work on mooks and bosses you've already beaten anyway, making it a niche bonus.

Yes, it only works sometimes, but remember this animal is a completely separate entity. It's not like you're required to make an attack when this happens, you could be casting buffs and heals and still stun something. And that's on top of all the tome feats (blitz I'm thinking) thaty our animal will get from its HD. This animal is doubling your effective actions for a round, and doing that plus stunning even at 150 HP still seems strong. But I'm not a connoseur of game balance. If Kaelik puts his dick away, he'll give you a more intelligent response.

> The blindsense might be strong, but it doesn't affect the game too much, it just means you can sleep soundly, and your enemies stop getting cover... unless I missed something key there?

Yes, that's what it does. Your enemies can't get cover, and you can't be snuck up on by anybody other than someone focusing on sneaking up on you (read: Darkstalker feat). If that was by itself, it would actually be weak, but your animal companion is also a powerhouse and you can ride it, and it will initiate effects for you.

> Growing large makes so that you can ride your eagle eventually. It doesn't increase damage that much. +8 str from medium to large is only +4 dmg with each attack.

Your eagle is getting feats with its bonus animal hit dice, with which it can take size increases. Heck, the eagle isn't the best example for this--your crocodile could pick up wings of evil.

> Also it is exactly the same as the druid ability. "You get an animal companion as the druid ability." Not sure how to be clearer on that.

I'm just dumb, no worries.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:14 pm

> Red_Rob wrote:I dunno about that so much. Have you read the Handle Animal rules lately?

I dunno, have you?

> (A druid or ranger can handle her animal companion as a free action or push it as a move action.)

Now granted, you're not technically a druid, but you're getting an animal companion with an effective druid level.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:28 pm

> ...You Lost Me wrote:You appear to be so dumb as to think that I can only make a judgment of any kind if the thread title says it, despite the fact that I can click on the thread and read it for context.

Actually, it was 100% your contention that you could only make the decision from thread titles, and that you must ignore all context.
Because context would tell you that Imakei's skill feats are meant for the Tomes.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Red_Rob
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Post by Red_Rob » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:53 am

> ...You Lost Me wrote:

> > Red_Rob wrote:I dunno about that so much. Have you read the Handle Animal rules lately?

> I dunno, have you?

> > (A druid or ranger can handle her animal companion as a free action or push it as a move action.)

> Now granted, you're not technically a druid, but you're getting an animal companion with an effective druid level.

Ouch. Guess I had that coming
I still think the restriction on your animal's actions is severe enough at low levels that if you stick to RAW it's not that big of an advantage. Just read the list of tricks and realise that at lower levels your animal can do 1, maybe 2 of these and the rest are forbidden actions. A lot of DM's have a habit of allowing you to basically use the Companion as a second PC because it's "easier", which is where it can be overpowered.
PS Kaelik - dragging arguments across topics is pretty pointless. Andrei started this thread to discuss his feat, not to watch you and YLM continue your bitching contest.
Simplified Tome Armor.
Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.
Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.
“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:57 am

Thank you Red Rob. I'm still leery, because the only command I really need is attack, and the animal will do its thing to maul people to pieces. Even getting attacks of opportunity is an attack.
I'd have to run it in a game to see how it goes.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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