# The Gaming Den

Welcome to the Gaming Den.

Skip to content

## Some Personal Classes made for 3.75 ed

The homebrew forum

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply

- Print view

172 posts

- Page 2 of 7
  - Jump to page:
- Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- …
- 7
- Next

Leress
  Prince
  Posts: 2767
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Leress » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:00 am

> MGuy wrote: Why would someone want to multiclass into a casting class from this?

I said non-caster like the fighter, rogue, samurai, anyone that doesn't cast spells.
Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:02 am

> Maxus wrote:Okay, Mguy, here's a deal: In the next day or two, I'll read your classes and post up my assessment of their strengths and shortcomings, and the rest of the crew here can pick apart what I say, and you should be able to learn the reasonings.
> Before that, would you do me a favor and straighten out the formatting and add some tables and some titles and the like so I can tell what ability belongs to what class? I get the impression that the top section is a class separate from that table below it, but it's really confusing and could be clarified.
> Also, shame on the Den for telling this guy he's wasting our time. If nothing else, educating him could be some useful mental exercise.

Sure I'll look over the formatting. I welcome your soon to come criticism but please include some alternatives or alterations to whats there.
Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:03 am

> Leress wrote: I said non-caster like the fighter, rogue, samurai, anyone that doesn't cast spells.

I know but the way you said it suggests that someone would be better off cross classing into a casting class. I don't see how.
Top

Avoraciopoctules
  Overlord
  Posts: 8624
  Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:48 pm
  Location: Oakland, CA

### Re: Some Personal Classes made for 3.75 ed

- Quote

Post by Avoraciopoctules » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:20 am

These classes would be much easier to read if you bolded the beginning of each entry like in standard class write-ups. I've done some of the work clearing up the formatting for your mage slayer in the quote below.

> MGuy wrote: [Class in spoiler to save space]
> Ishvalan Crusader (Anti Mage): This is a class made with Fullmetal Alchemist in mind. I actually first saw this class on another site though the site is gone now.
> HD: 1d8
> Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge: Arcana, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Swim
> Skill Points: 4+Int
> Weapon Proficiency: Simple
> Base Attack Progression: Good (As Fighter)
> Good Saves: All (As Monk)
> Bonus AC: As Monk/ +Wisdom Modifier as dodge bonus to AC (In no armor and carrying no more than a light load)
> Move Speed Bonus: As Monk Progression
> Arcane Curse: Imprinted tattoo, deals escalating 1D6 (+1d6 every 2 levels after the first, 10d6 at 19th) worth of damage on a successful touch attack vs casters and creatures that cast spells or that have spell like abilities.
> -Ignores any AC bonuses granted by spells/spell-like abilities
> -Ignores DR at 5th level +
> - Ignores Hardness at 10th level+
> -Counts as a Spell Like Ability Caster level equal to the level of Crusader
> -Must know whether they are touching organic or inorganic surface or the attack does nothing
> -Magic Items get a save
> -Targeting an item works as normal
> Acrobatics (Ex): Bonus Feat. Gained at 1st Level.
> Mage Slayer (Ex): Bonus Feat. Gained at 1st Level.
> Mage Slayer: +1 on Will saves, Casters cannot cast defensively while threatened by you, Your caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities that aren't granted by this class or your race are reduced by 4
> Mage Hunter: You treat anything vulnerable to your Arcane Curse as your favored enemy.
> -+2 to Bluff, Perception, Insight, and Survival checks made when using these skills against creatures that fit.
> -Gains a +2 on damage rolls on such creatures (bonus damage is applied to the curse)
> -The bonuses increase by 2 every 5 levels.
> Arcane Resistance (Ex): Gained at 2nd Level. Adds Cha to saves vs spells and spell-like abilities
> Track (Ex): Bonus Feat. Gained at 2nd Level.
> Witch Hound(Su): Gained at 2nd Level. Your eyes glow. This means that you are constantly treated as having detect magic active and considered to be concentrating on it at no action cost. (Caster level is equal to Crusader level)
> Mobility (Ex): Bonus Feat. Gained at 2nd Level.
> Mettle (Ex): Gained at 3rd Level.
> Pathfinder: Gained at 3rd level. Never becomes lost due to poor visibility or difficult terrain. Is not hampered by difficult terrain
> Evasion (Ex):Gained at 4th level.
> Mage Finder: Gained at 5th level. You may disregard any Miss Chance that results from spells or spell-like abilities.
> -When fighting a creature under the effect of Mirror Image, you automatically know which one is real
> -Your caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities that aren't granted by this class or your race are reduced by 4
> Chain Curse: Gained at 6th level. When using the curse the Crusader may channel some damage to another target (2 secondary targets at 11th, and 3 at 16th)
> -Secondary target must be within 30ft
> -Must make a another touch attack vs 2nd targets
> -Secondary target(s) take only half damage
> -Can be chained off of stationary objects (must touching the structure or the ground)
> Break Magic: Gained at 7th. Upon successfully striking with the Arcane Curse the crusader may dispel (as greater dispel, CL equal to crusader level) any ongoing magical effect.
> -Can be used against stationary spell effects (walls, extra dimensional holes, etc) on a touch
> -A Crusader is unaffected by a harmful spell that he/she touches in their dispel attempt unless they fail the dispel check. (IE The crusader can touch the wall of fire during the dispel attempt but if the check fails the crusader would take damage as they regularly would)
> Earthbolt: Gained at 8th level. Can, as a standard action, send curse through ground at a target,
> -Range: 25ft+5ft/2 levels
> -Reflex halves damage (DC: 10+1/2Crusader's HD+Cha Mod)
> -Is chainable
> Improved Evasion: Gained at 8th level
> Nondetection: Gained at 9th Level: Is treated as if they are constantly under a nondetection spell
> Disruption: (Ex): Starting at 10th level, if you hit a creature capable of casting spells or spell like abilities in melee this round, they must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con mod) or be dazed for one round.
> Spell Resistance: Gained at 10th level. Gains Spell Resistance equal to 10+Crusader level
> Organ Rend: Gained at 14th level. A crusader imposes a -8 Penalty on their attack (or whatever modifier one makes for a called shot to the head/heart/stomach in your game). If the attack hits the victim must make a fortitude save equal to 10+1/2 the crusader's HD+their Charisma modifier or die.
> -If the save succeeds the victim still takes damage as normal
> -targets that are immune to critical hits are also immune to this ability
> Level - Saves - Abilities
> 1 - +2/+2/+2 - Arcane Curse 1d6, Acrobatics, Mage Slayer, Mage Hunter
> 2 - +3/+3/+3 - Arcane Resistance, Track, Witch Hound
> 3 - +3/+3/+3 - Arcane Curse 2d6, Path Finder, Mettle
> 4 - +4/+4/+4 - Evasion
> 5 - +4/+4/+4 - Arcane Curse 3d6, Mobility, Mage Finder
> 6 - +5/+5/+5 - Chain Curse
> 7 - +5/+5/+5 - Arcane Curse 4d6, Break Magic
> 8 - +6/+6/+6 - Earthbolt, Improved Evasion,
> 9 - +6/+6/+6 - Arcane Curse 5d6, Nondetection
> 10 - +7/+7/+7 - Spell Resistance, Disruption
> 11 - +7/+7/+7 - Arcane Curse 6d6
> 12 - +8/+8/+8 -
> 13 - +8/+8/+8 - Arcane Curse 7d6
> 14 - +9/+9/+9 - Organ Rending
> 15 - +9/+9/+9 - Arcane Curse 8d6
> 16 - +10/+10/+10 -
> 17 - +10/+10/+10 - Arcane Curse 9d6
> 18 - +11/+11/+11 -
> 19 - +11/+11/+11 - Arcane Curse 10d6
> 20 - +12/+12/+12 -
> Restrictions: loses bonus movement/dodge bonus/AC bonus from wearing armor or while carrying a medium load
> -Can't cross into a casting class, Loses all arcane mark abilities

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:24 am

Thank you. I will apply it.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:51 am

Adjusted Format.
Added ability to Arcane Curse for 15th level+
Top

PoliteNewb
  Duke
  Posts: 1053
  Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:23 am
  Location: Alaska
  Contact:
  Contact PoliteNewb
  Website

###

- Quote

Post by PoliteNewb » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:18 am

> MGuy wrote:

> > Leress wrote: I said non-caster like the fighter, rogue, samurai, anyone that doesn't cast spells.

> I know but the way you said it suggests that someone would be better off cross classing into a casting class. I don't see how.

I don't know why this is hard.
Basing that ability on CLASS level screws over multiclassing PERIOD. Because multiclassing literally means "stop gaining class levels in this class".
If you base it on character level, the problem goes away.
Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:51 am

> PoliteNewb wrote:

> > MGuy wrote:

> > > Leress wrote: I said non-caster like the fighter, rogue, samurai, anyone that doesn't cast spells.

> > I know but the way you said it suggests that someone would be better off cross classing into a casting class. I don't see how.

> I don't know why this is hard.
> Basing that ability on CLASS level screws over multiclassing PERIOD. Because multiclassing literally means "stop gaining class levels in this class".
> If you base it on character level, the problem goes away.

This was original addressed to the line in the class about not being able to retain the AC bonuses to armor under heavier loads and the No-arcane multiclassing part. Plenty of abilities from other classes rely on you staying in that classes. Its certainly not new that this one has exclusive ones. If someone just wants the abilities to stack with level from another class they can easily make one of those feats that allow you to mix the class levels for different class abilities.
Top

Leress
  Prince
  Posts: 2767
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Leress » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:58 am

No, it wasn't it was about Spell Resistance.

> Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!

> Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!

> Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.

> I want him to tongue-punch my box.

]

> The divine in me says the divine in you should go fuck itself.

Top

PoliteNewb
  Duke
  Posts: 1053
  Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:23 am
  Location: Alaska
  Contact:
  Contact PoliteNewb
  Website

###

- Quote

Post by PoliteNewb » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:00 am

> MGuy wrote: This was original addressed to the line in the class about not being able to retain the AC bonuses to armor under heavier loads and the No-arcane multiclassing part. Plenty of abilities from other classes rely on you staying in that classes. Its certainly not new that this one has exclusive ones. If someone just wants the abilities to stack with level from another class they can easily make one of those feats that allow you to mix the class levels for different class abilities.

Actually, no...it was addressed to the line about Spell Resistance. Here:

> Leress wrote:

> > class writeup wrote:Spell Resistance: Gained at 10th level. Gains Spell Resistance equal to 10+Crusader level

> Basing it off of your class level isn't really a good idea.

See how that works?
And Leress is right. Spell Resistance ALWAYS needs to scale with your character level, because the level of casting you face is going to scale with your character level.
Example: If you are a 12th level Ishbalan Crusader, your SR = 22. That's cool...because you're 12th level, you'll probably (on average) be facing people with a caster level of 10-14, so they will have to roll (on average) a 9 to 13 to overcome your SR.
Now let's say you decide to multiclass, and take a few levels of Paladin or something...so in a while you're a IshCrusader12/Paladin4. Your SR is STILL 22, because it's based on your IshCrusader level...but now you're a 16th level character, and you'll probably be fighting dudes who are 15-18 level casters...and now they'll overcome your SR by rolling a 5 to 8. You are HIGHER level, but your effective SR is worse...and it will continue to get worse with every level you take that isn't IshCrusader.
Clearer now?
Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:06 am

Indeed thank you. That does make sense in that case I will edit it later.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:01 pm

Noble has been overhauled.
Slight change to Sworn Sword
Changed Weapon Proficiencies
Changed Wealth
Iron Will replaced by Ideal Will
Gossip move to 1st level
Added Command Cover
Added Combat Expertise
Undying Loyalty Abilities Added
Willful Resolve Added
Court Abilities modified and overhauled, Now known as Court of the Iron Fist
Noble Fencer Abilities added
Field Commander Abilities added
Removed Immoveable Hand of Peace and Royalty
Moved Skill Focus and combined it with Versatility
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:27 pm

Reworked Arcane Curse.
Added Abilities to Witch Hunt
Edited Earthbolt and Cain Curse to conform with other changes.
Added Unforgiving Ability
Added The Smell of magic Ability
Added Nowhere to Hide Ability
Added Nowhere to Run ability
Added Disruption Wave Ability
Added Dedicated Ability
Added Mage Knightmare Ability
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:19 pm

Added Another Class: Samurai
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:15 am

Added tables.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 am

Added Noble Path explanation.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:21 am

Edited Court of the Iron Fist Abilities.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

IGTN
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 729
  Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:13 am

###

- Quote

Post by IGTN » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:29 am

Seriously, do bigger edits and space them out more. If a class might be different than it is now by the time I'm finished reading it, I have less incentive to read it, and even less to do any in-depth analysis.
"No, you can't burn the inn down. It's made of solid fire."
Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:45 am

No problem.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

Top

Username17
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 29894
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Username17 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:45 pm

You have got to be kidding. The Samurai is just fucking Fighter. Fighters don't get nice things, and your Samurai doesn't get nice things. The amount of effort you put into it is astounding considering how incredibly shitty it is.
Stop. Just stop altogether. If you make player spend two levels to get Improved Buckler Defense and an extra +2 on an attack roll once a day you have failed at life. You entire methodology is crap and you need to stop doing it. You obviously have the patience to write full classes and the enthusiasm to write and rewrite them until they are "right" but as long as you keep thinking that two levels to get a bonus feat and +1 to a "ki pool" is OK as a life choice your results are never going to be good.
Seriously. Take a step back. Decide how you want the Samuai to fight enemies. Then look at what your opponents are. Then fit some abilities to that, and run some playtests. Here are some actual challenges at EL 5 and 15. Your character should win roughly half of these challenges, and he just isn't going to do that getting Improved Toughness at level 4:
EL 5

- A huge Animated iron statue.
- A Basilisk.
- A Large Fire Elemental.
- A Manticore on the wing.
- A Mummy.
- A Phase Spider.
- A Troll.
- A chasm.
- A moat filled with acid.
- A locked door behind a number of pit traps.
- A couple of Centaur Archers in the woods.
- A Howler/Allip tag team.
- A pit filled with medium monstrous scorpions.
- A Grimlock assault team.
- A Cleric of Hextor (with his zombies).

EL 15

- A Marut.
- A Hullathoin (with its army of skeletons and bloodfiend locusts).
- A Nightmare Beast deep in a hedge maze.
- A Windghost in the sky.
- A Yakfolk cleric with a party of Dao.
- A Drow Priestess with an army of ghouls.
- A warparty of Cloud Giants.
- A Mature Adult White Dragon.
- A Death Slaad riding a Titanic Toad.
- A Cornugon.
- A Gelugon and his Iron Golem bodyguard.
- A Rube Goldberg series of contingent weirds triggered to a set of symbols of pain surrounding the artifact.
- A pair of Glabrezus
- A harem of Succubi.
- Twenty Dire Bears.
- A dozen Medusa mounted archers on Hellcats.
- A forest made out of lava and infested with hostile fire-element dire badgers.
- A pair of Beholders.

When you have 15th level characters, they need to be able to overcome challenges on other planes of existence, at the bottom of the sea, and on top of cloud islands. A high level character needs mobility, resistances, options. Not the ability to spend up to 8 hit points a round to do 14 extra points of damage.
The reason that I am unable to give you suggestions on tweaking this Samurai class is because it is garbage. Thee are no tweaks possible, because in all twenty levels it never gets a class feature that would be out of place at level 1. You need to define a role for it at high level and then actually write something that would allow it to fill that role.
-Username17
Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:46 am

I have a few issues with this comment.
1: The major issue I have with this is that it is not constructive criticism and it gives no alternatives/solutions to any of the problems mentioned.
2: If you have issues with certain abilities (You think that they are gotten too late, they should be scaled along with level, they can be gotten too early, etc) I would prefer that you reference them and offer a solution/alternative.
3. This is a fighter type class. The whole idea behind it is to make an alternate fighter with special abilities based on style instead of feats. Saying that fighters suck and this sucks because fighters suck does nothing to help. Additionally, this class gets abilities that are a bit better than a single in that they scale or do something in addition to giving an abilitylike that of a regular feat.
4. Claiming my "methodology is crap" and making claims that "you should just stop" is unjustified nonsense.
5. Samurai fight enemies in much of the same way a fighter would though a bit better. They fight an enemy in the method that their style provides for. If your samurai can't keep up with parties of the appropriate level it is probably an issue relating to the way you built him.
6. EL encounters are built for an entire team of adventurers. If you want to know whether they can fight adequately for their level you should be looking for monsters at a CR that is 2 below them not for monsters of the same CR. However, to answer the allegation I'm going to use a Human, Iaijitsu (my favorite style) built Samurai with only feats from the PHB and Expanded ki Pool:
Samurai 5: stats: Str: 17, Dex:14, Con:12, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Cha: 14, Hp: 55 (maxed), Saves: +5/+3/+4, Initiative: +6, Speed: 20ft, AC: 18(19 vs Dodge target), Bab/Grapple: +5/+8, Full Attack: +7, ki Pool: 7, +1 Katana, Abilities: Way of the Single Sword, Iaijutsu Strike, Strike With No Thought, Feats: Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Expanded ki Pool. This is with just the Ancestral Weapon, and +1 Breast Plate. which at the current wealth/level rates would leave him with about 5500 extra gp to spend on any number of magic items.
So now in any situation the Samurai gets a surprise round, whether the target sees him coming, or gets to act in the same surprise round as anything that got the drop on him. He has quick draw so he's always ready to fight in that surprise round. At this point he does 1d10+5 (19/20) damage (4=1.5 strength+1 enchantment bonus) so he deals an average of 10 damage a turn, not too bad for his level. Moreover he is probably going to power attack so this damage will increase anywhere from +2-+10 depending on how sure he is to hit. Added on to that he can spend all 7 of his ki points in that surprise round and deal an additional 8d6 damage which is done to everything (constructs, undead, etc ar not immune to this bonus damage). (25 bonus damage on average) Playing it safe I will assume that a samurai is not gonna power attack in the surprise round so he's gonna do about 35 damage just to open things up. If I don't wat to do that, and for longer battles I'll just save the ki to slap a +2 on my every attack or mitigate a -2 from each power attack with that same bonus.
EL: 5 * A huge Animated iron statue. 70 hp max. huge size not a problem because he can shift 10 squares. 14 AC so I'd be dealing 10 damage about 70% of the time. vs the object's +5 to hit my 19 (he hits only about 35% of the time) It may drag out but If i opt to use combat expertise this fight is already won.
* A Basilisk. 72 hp max, Has gaze which is a horrible constant ability for only a CR 5 creature. But I have a fort save of +5, though I probably would have bought a Cloak of resistance bby now I'll stick their. So I have a 35% chance of being put out of th fight on any given round (better chances than a wizard at this level trying to solo the beast would have). AC: 16 So I hit about 60% of the time. This is probably a lost fight but the same could be said for any soloing adventure who accidentally pissed it off.
* A Manticore on the wing. Flying Manticore: Umm A ranged Ancestral Weapon?
* A Mummy. Why am I soloing a mummy?! it has great abilities and an big pile of hp for a creature of its level.
* A Phase Spider. I hit it until it dies?
* A Troll.Why am I soloing a troll at 5th level?! but if I had to I'd hire an npc mage to lend me a fire spell on my sword.
* A chasm.,* A moat filled with acid,* A locked door behind a number of pit traps. traps and locked doors? Umm I think I'll either save against them or get a hireling rogue?
* A couple of Centaur Archers in the woods, * A Howler/Allip tag team, * A Grimlock assault team, * A Cleric of Hextor (with his zombies).If they can get a team then I will too.
* A pit filled with medium monstrous scorpions. The things can barely hit me (+2 a piece? +4 if they hang together?) I will just kill them one at a time.
Samurai 15: stats: Str: 23, Dex:18, Con:14, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Cha: 18, Hp: 180 (maxed), Saves: +12/+10/+10, Initiative: +12, Speed: 20ft, AC: 23(24 vs Dodge target), Bab/Grapple: +15/+21, Full Attack: +27/+22//+17, ki Pool: 17, +7 Katana (+5 with +2 in special powers), Abilities: Way of the Single Sword, Iaijutsu Strike, Strike With No Thought, One Strike, Two Cuts, Master Cut, On The Edge, Superior Combat Refleces, Never Surrounded Feats: Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Expanded ki Pool, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Critical, Expanded ki Pool, Gear: +4 Breast Plate, +1 Ring of Protect,, Cloak of Resistance +1, Something of Str, Dex, Cha +4, Something of Con: +2 And I still have roughly 30,000gp in stuff I should be using (mostly towards AC buffs).
This Samurai can definitely do what it needs to for his level. He hits for 1d10+14 damage (17/20) for an average of 19 damage a turn possibly with bonus damage depending on what weapon properties you chose. On a Surprise round he hits for the same but can instantly double the damage (2 ki points) for an average of 39 damage. Why stop there? he can maximize his damage by spending 2 more ki (making it 48 damage). With that out of the way he can opt to spend the rest of his ki points to get +13d6 extra dage in on top of that (45 extra damage on average) this means he just can do 93 damage in the first hit in a surprise round that he is automatically a part of. If he power attacks he deals an extra +4-+20 damage on top of that + whatever the special weapon property does.
15th level: Now i'm not going to go through all of the 15th level challenges. There's not really a point because, as I said before, ECLs are set for a team not a solo hero.

> When you have 15th level characters, they need to be able to overcome challenges on other planes of existence, at the bottom of the sea, and on top of cloud islands. A high level character needs mobility, resistances, options. Not the ability to spend up to 8 hit points a round to do 14 extra points of damage.

How did that samurai get to that plane existence? The wizard/cleric in his party plane shifted them there? Well surely they must have spells and equipment that would aid them there. Why else would he be on another plane? I don't believe any class is automatically set up to deal with any and all situations (especially planar ones).

> The reason that I am unable to give you suggestions on tweaking this Samurai class is because it is garbage. Thee are no tweaks possible, because in all twenty levels it never gets a class feature that would be out of place at level 1. You need to define a role for it at high level and then actually write something that would allow it to fill that role.

I disagree. I think the reason you are unable to give suggestions is that you don't have any good ideas yourself. Moreover I hate forcing a role on anybody (it is one of my main gripes about 4e) If you want a role, define it in your character build. this class and its ways give you the ability to specialize in different fighting methods. Hell you can even mix and match the abilities. There's nothing stopping you from going into Scorpion and Iaijutsu.
Top

Akula
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 960
  Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:06 am
  Location: Oakland CA

###

- Quote

Post by Akula » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:08 am

No, you should be able to handle a challenge of CR=ECL and win 50% of the time.
Your animated object has +9 to hit, 84 hp average, and an AC of 13. But the thing that screws your character is the fact that it has hardness. It will rape you.
The fact that you cannot take down a mummy really sucks for you.
The fall into the pit deals damage (likely not much but still). Then the scorpions go to trip you. And your touch AC is crap. Then you have flanking. If they really need it they can try to aid another. Plus, they outnumber you four to one.
You don't get a team, those are CR 5 as a team.
You should spend that 5500gp on Amber Amulets of Vermin (Huge Scorpion) because they are better fighters than you.
Top

CatharzGodfoot
  King
  Posts: 5668
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: North Carolina

###

- Quote

Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:14 am

> MGuy wrote: EL: 5 * A huge Animated iron statue. 70 hp max. huge size not a problem because he can shift 10 squares. 14 AC so I'd be dealing 10 damage about 70% of the time. vs the object's +5 to hit my 19 (he hits only about 35% of the time) It may drag out but If i opt to use combat expertise this fight is already won.
> * A Basilisk. 72 hp max, Has gaze which is a horrible constant ability for only a CR 5 creature. But I have a fort save of +5, though I probably would have bought a Cloak of resistance bby now I'll stick their. So I have a 35% chance of being put out of th fight on any given round (better chances than a wizard at this level trying to solo the beast would have). AC: 16 So I hit about 60% of the time. This is probably a lost fight but the same could be said for any soloing adventure who accidentally pissed it off.
> * A Manticore on the wing. Flying Manticore: Umm A ranged Ancestral Weapon?
> * A Mummy. Why am I soloing a mummy?! it has great abilities and an big pile of hp for a creature of its level.
> * A Phase Spider. I hit it until it dies?
> * A Troll.Why am I soloing a troll at 5th level?! but if I had to I'd hire an npc mage to lend me a fire spell on my sword.
> * A chasm.,* A moat filled with acid,* A locked door behind a number of pit traps. traps and locked doors? Umm I think I'll either save against them or get a hireling rogue?
> * A couple of Centaur Archers in the woods, * A Howler/Allip tag team, * A Grimlock assault team, * A Cleric of Hextor (with his zombies).If they can get a team then I will too.
> * A pit filled with medium monstrous scorpions. The things can barely hit me (+2 a piece? +4 if they hang together?) I will just kill them one at a time.

If your response is 'have a different character do it' or 're-build my samurai' for most of the challenges, your class has problems.

> MGuy wrote:I disagree. I think the reason you are unable to give suggestions is that you don't have any good ideas yourself. Moreover I hate forcing a role on anybody (it is one of my main gripes about 4e) If you want a role, define it in your character build. this class and its ways give you the ability to specialize in different fighting methods. Hell you can even mix and match the abilities. There's nothing stopping you from going into Scorpion and Iaijutsu.

Don't be naïve. Frank has already worked on a samurai class that filled its niche quite well.

> FrankTrollman wrote:Samurai
> "My ancestors had words for people who would do such a thing. They were not nice words."
> The war torn countrysides of many a land are held together with tremendous amounts of dedicated work by masters of weaponry and honor. These martial specialists represent the structure of society by their very existence, and beat the living crap out of any who would dare to stand against it.
> At least, that's the idea. In truth, there are those who take upon the mantle of the Samurai only to betray its ideals. Those who trample the fabric of the social network they are supposedly sworn to protect.
> Alignment: The Samurai can be of any alignment. All of them must maintain the veneer of honor and civility, though there is no reason that they have to actually be Lawful.
> Races: The Samurai is primarily found in societies where the law of the land is held in primacy over other things. So while a Samurai himself does not have to be Lawful, Lawful races bear the vast majority of Samurai.
> Starting Gold: 4d6x10 gp (140 gold), plus one masterwork weapon
> Starting Age: As Fighter.
> Hit Die: d8
> Class Skills: The Samurai's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
> Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus
> BAB: Good (1/1), Saves: Fort: Poor; Reflex: Poor; Will: Good
> Level, Benefit
> 1 Ancestral Weaponry, Pledge of Loyalty
> 2 Horde Breaker
> 3 Kiai!
> 4 Whirlwind Attack
> 5 Ancestral Guidance
> 6 Blindfighting, Terrible Blows
> 7 Iaijutsu
> 8 Parry Magic
> 9 Subtle Cut
> 10 Blade of Devastation
> 11 Iaijutsu Focus
> 12 Cut Magic
> 13 Deny Arcane Defenses
> 14 Final Cut
> 15 Iaijatsu Master
> 16 Reflect Magic
> 17 Blade of Souls
> 18 Deny Armor
> 19 Iaijutsu Grandmaster
> 20 Scrolls of Wisdom
> All of the following are Class Features of the Samurai class:
> Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Samurai are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as a single Exotic weapon appropriate to the Samurai's tradition. Samurai are proficient with Light and Medium Armor, but not with shields of any kind.
> Ancestral Weaponry: Every culture with a Samurai tradition has a signature weapon that Samurai from that culture use. Whether it is the Spiked Chain of the Hobgoblin Khanate of Khadun or the Katana of the Human Empire of Rokugan, the weapon serves as a symbol of the office and prowess of the Samurai.
> A samurai can only have one weapon designated as his Ancestral Weapon at a time, and this weapon must be a masterwork weapon exalted by the Samurai's warrior culture. He must perform a 24 hour ritual to call his ancestral spirits into the weapon and designate it as his Ancestral Weapon. This ritual costs 100 gp in incense and offerings, and once performed grants the following abilities:
> -Counts as his Ancestral Weapon for all Samurai abilities.
> -Has a minimum enhancement bonus to attack and damage equal to his level divided by three (maximum of +5 for a samurai of 20th level or lower).
> -The Ancestral weapon has double HPs and +10 Hardness, and has the Ghost Touch special
> property.
> - Example: Bandy Humaido is a halfling samurai, and his people greatly extort the halfling skiprock as a weapon of war – but because the skiprock is thrown weapon ammunition, it is inappropriate as an Ancestral Weapon (which, of course, you could only have one of). As such, Bandy instead draws the power of his ancestors into a short sword.
> Pledge of Loyalty:
> Samurai pledge their loyalty to a Lord, a figure of temporal power and head of a noble family or clan. To retain this Lord, they must follow this Lord's orders and uphold any Code of Conduct the Lord obeys. As long as a Samurai does these two things, he cannot be forced to act against his Lord or Lord's family by mind-affecting effects.
> Samurai who have broken their vows to their lord are called ronin, while samurai who have never been pledged to a lord or are unwilling to do so are weaponmasters called kensai, sword saints, or simply "master swordsman" or other descriptive title. Regardless of their name, Samurai without a Lord receive a +4 bonus against mind-affecting effects.
> Horde Breaker: A Samurai gains Horde Breaker as a bonus feat at 2nd level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose a [Combat] Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat.
> Kiai! (Ex): At 3rd level, a Samurai may convert a successful strike into a confirmed critical hit. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his half his Samurai level +2. This ability is a free action that is declared after the strike is rolled and confirmed as a hit, but before damage is rolled. This ability cannot be used on Attacks of Opportunity.
> Whirlwind Attack: A Samurai gains Whirlwind Attack as a bonus feat at 4th level.
> Ancestral Guidance(Sp): At 5th level, a Samurai may seek guidance from his ancestors. This counts as a commune effect that can be used once a day. A samurai can also seek guidance from other peoples' ancestors if they are available. This works like a speak with dead effect that may be used once per day.
> Blindfighting: A Samurai gains Blindfighting as a bonus feat at 6th level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose a [Combat] Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat.
> Terrible Blows (Su): At 6th level, a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon bypasses Damage Reduction and ignores Hardness.
> Iaijutsu (Ex): When a 7th level Samurai has the Edge on an opponent, he may take an attack of opportunity against that opponent as an immediate action at any time.
> Parry Magic (Su): At 8th level, a Samurai may use his Ancestral Weapon to parry magic targeted at him. When the Samurai is targeted by a spell or supernatural ability, he may take an Attacks of Opportunity against the targeted effect. If he can make an attack roll against an AC equal to the spell or effect's DC with this Attack of Opportunity, the effect does not affect him.
> Subtle Cut A Samurai gains Subtle Cut as a bonus feat at 9th level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose another [Combat] Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat.
> Blade of Devastation (Su) At 10th level, the Samurai may attack enemies within his reach through objects and walls, his Ancestral Weapon automatically destroying any unattended object or wall in the way with a Hardness less than 20. As a result, enemies do not gain cover bonuses against an attacking Samurai. This effect can also pierce [force] effects.
> As a standard action, he can also destroy unattended objects of any Hardness with a successful Ancestral weapon attack, or dispel up to a 10' by 10' section of a [force] effect.
> Iaijutsu Focus (Ex): At 11th level, a Samurai may make up to his per round limit of Attacks of Opportunity against any opponent(s) that he threatens as an immediate action.
> Cut Magic (Su): At 12th level, a Samurai may attack ongoing spell effects by attacking the square they are in for Area of Effect effects or the object or person for targeted effects (which does damage as normal to the object or person). This attack is handled like the Samurai's Parry Magic ability, but it only dispels a 10' by 10' section of an Area of Effect spell or spell-like ability.
> Deny Caster Defenses (Ex): At 13th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from spells or spell-like abilities.
> Final Cut(Ex): At 14th level, a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon gains the Vorpal Special quality, even if it is not a slashing weapon.
> Iaijatsu Master(Ex) : At 15th level, any enemy struck by a Samurai's Attacks of Opportunity must make a Fortitude save against a DC equal to 10 + half the Samurai's HD +the Samurai's Wisdom bonus or be dazed for one round. A successful save against this effect makes the enemy immune to this effect for five rounds.
> Reflect Magic(Su) : At 16th level, an spell effect that would be dispelled by a successful use of the Samurai's Parry Magic ability can instead be reflected back on the caster, as per a spell turning effect.
> Blade of Souls: At 17th level, any enemy killed by a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon has his soul sucked into it, and this enemy cannot be raised, resurrected, or otherwise returned to life until the Ancestral Blade is broken. Each time the Ancestral Weapon takes a soul, the Samurai gains a single bonus use of his Kiai! ability that must be used before the next sunrise.
> Deny Armor(Su): At 18th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from armor or natural armor.
> Iaijutsu Grandmaster (Ex): At 19th level, any Attack of opportunity made by the Samurai is automatically a confirmed critical hit.
> Scrolls of Wisdom: At 20th level, the Samurai has reached the pinnacle of his art, and he may compose a treatise of his collected wisdom. If he spends one month composing this treatise, he may distribute it and spread his wisdom. Anyone who reads this treatise gains a +2 competence bonus to attack characters with Samurai levels, but a -8 penalty to attack the writer of the treatise.
> In addition, a Samurai who writes his treatise no longer takes ability penalties for aging as long as one copy of the treatise exists.
> Iconic Samurai: In examples, we will always use Bandy Humaido, the Iconic Halfling Samurai.

The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
Top

MGuy
  Prince
  Posts: 4665
  Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
  Location: Indiana

###

- Quote

Post by MGuy » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:49 am

Akula:
1) You're right, I got the Large Construct stats. In this I myself would probably make extensive out of guerrilla tactics to fight it (I move faster and there is almost always a running option). However the main point about this is can the class take it on 50% of the time. I'd have to say probably. This class even while it is still in its infantile stages would probably be having about as much trouble with the thing as any other class not crafted specifically to handle this particular thing.
2) I'd like to YOU take down a mummy.
3) Vermin don't trip or aid another. Why? They don't have the intelligence to. Maybe if they are hive mind scorpions. If that's the case I get an attack of opportunity against the ones that try it 1/turn. And I have a fairly good chance to resist the attempt. Moreover If its really that bad I'll fight defensively on my back. They could kill me but chances are about as good that I kill them. Also the whole idea that the samurai falls into a pit and has to face a bunch of hive minded, aid another, tripping scorpions is a bit of a stretch isn't it? What's more MOST characters no matter what the class will have bad touch ACs at this point.
4) What in the name of Jesus the multi-middle named Christ do you mean I don't get a fudging team?! Maybe for the cleric I can understand (summons and all) but at least he'll need the round to summon them (the surprise round should put him near death and most likely I'll be moving before him on the first round). However, facing two centaur, ambushing you, alone, in the woods? There has got to be a CR modifier for unfavorable conditions somewhere in there.
5) It stands to reason that a CR: 7 Monster would be better in a fight than my 5th level character.
6) Do you actually have any ideas of your own to improve the class?
Catharz:
1) I only suggested you get a rogue for the door problem. And I never said anything about rebuilding your samurai. He could always bash that locked door in or hit it until it breaks if you wanna get technical.
2) True I see now that he does. I'd like to ask then how HIS 5th level samurai is going to overcome the challenges he posed against mine.
3) Do you have any suggestions of your own?
Last edited by MGuy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
Top

Avoraciopoctules
  Overlord
  Posts: 8624
  Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:48 pm
  Location: Oakland, CA

###

- Quote

Post by Avoraciopoctules » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:04 am

Akula and I are currently conversing via phone. For reference, HERE is the mummy:
We shall defeat this most daunting nemesis. Truly, this will be a terrible battle, and the onlooker will quail at the deadly odds we face. Still, we have faith! Such is our fervent belief in the righteousness of our cause that we are confident we can prevail over not one, but 2 of the dread, bandage-wrapped foe. Stay tuned for details.
Top
Post Reply

- Print view

Display:
Sort by:
Direction:

172 posts

- Page 2 of 7
  - Jump to page:
- Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- …
- 7
- Next

Return to “It's My Own Invention...”

Jump to

- Main
- ↳ About the Gaming Den
- ↳ In My Humble Opinion...
- ↳ I Gave the Mouse a Cookie...
- ↳ In The Trenches
- ↳ It's My Own Invention...
- ↳ MPSIMS