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## Save this for when the Plutocratans trot out "entitleme

Mundane & Pointless Stuff I Must Share: The Off Topic Forum

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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:00 pm

> Count_Arioch_the_28th wrote:Wealth is a finite resource, every dollar you have is a dollar no one else can get without your say-so (barring theft or trickery, of course.)

That is total bullshit. Wealth is a combination of what people find, steal and make. You can destroy wealth by doing stupid things, just like you can create wealth by doing smart things.
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tzor
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Post by tzor » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:59 pm

Wealth is a finite resource but it can be both created and destroyed. In fact it can also decay. Lots of people discovered that in the Great Depression. Typically it is easier to steal it than it is to create it.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:28 pm

Every dollar I put into the bank is ninety cents that can be loaned out to someone else. Every dollar I pay in taxes is another dollar twenty spent in the economy. Every dollar I put into an investment vehicle is another dollar in the economy just as sure as trading it for bread down the street.
...But none of that excuses people starving while I'm not. But it does say that wealth is not entirely finite. It is instead expansive and contracting. That dollar I put in the bank? It shrinks every year. I won't get the same back. The dollar in taxes? It's not mine anymore although it has grown the economy. The investment, though, is something I might make back more. The bread will go stale in a week.
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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:38 pm

Time to bump this in light of the Joe-the-Plumber fiasco and the use of "welfare" as an attack term, people need to know that McCain is totally for able-bodied politicians with millions in assets receiving more than the median salary in taxpayer-funded benefits every year - so long as they are him.
Linky to current attack line

> from that AP article wrote: McCain suggests Obama tax policies are socialist
> By GLEN JOHNSON – 47 minutes ago
> CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — Republican presidential candidate John McCain on Saturday accused Democratic rival Barack Obama of favoring a socialistic economic approach by supporting tax cuts and tax credits McCain says would merely shuffle wealth rather than creating it.
> "At least in Europe, the Socialist leaders who so admire my opponent are upfront about their objectives," McCain said in a radio address. "They use real numbers and honest language. And we should demand equal candor from Sen. Obama. Raising taxes on some in order to give checks to others is not a tax cut; it's just another government giveaway."
> McCain leveled the charge before a pair of appearances aimed at restoring his lead in critical battleground states. In both North Carolina and Virginia, where McCain was to speak later in the day, his campaign has surrendered its lead to Obama in various polls. President Bush, a Republican, won both states in 2004.
> The state dips mimic larger national trends that have given Obama a lead over McCain following Wall Street chaos that focused the race on who is best equipped to restore the economy.
> On Sunday, McCain was to travel to Ohio, where he might appear with "Joe the Plumber," the Holland, Ohio, plumber Joe Wurzelbacher whom the senator has been portraying as emblematic of people with concerns about Obama's tax plans.
> Wurzelbacher became the focal point of the final presidential debate after he met Obama earlier in the week and said the Democrat's tax proposal could keep him from buying the two-man plumbing company where he works. However, reports of Wurzelbacher's annual earnings suggest he would receive a tax cut rather than an increase under Obama's plan.
> Obama has said his tax policies would cut payments for 95 percent of working Americans, while increasing them only for families making more than $250,000 a year. McCain has argued that 40 percent of Americans don't pay income taxes, either because they are seniors or don't meet minimum earnings thresholds, so the only way to cut their taxes is to give them various credits.
> "In other words, Barack Obama's tax plan would convert the IRS into a giant welfare agency, redistributing massive amounts of wealth at the direction of politicians in Washington," McCain said in the radio address.
> An Obama spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Last edited by Josh_Kablack on Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Absentminded_Wizard
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Post by Absentminded_Wizard » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:48 am

I'd really love to see some evidence for the claim that 40% of Americans don't pay income taxes. If that proportion of the population makes less than the $8000 or $9000 it takes to trigger the income tax, the economy's in really bad shape.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:03 am

Yes, taxes now cover some 60% of households, the highest in the country's history.

> [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States wrote:wikipedia[/url]]As of 2007, there are about 138 million taxpayers in the United States,[8] including many who pay zero income tax,[9] estimated to about a third of all tax filers.[10] The Treasury Department in 2006 reported, based on Internal Revenue Service (IRS) data, the share of federal income taxes paid by taxpayers of various income levels. The data shows the progressive tax structure of the U.S. federal income tax system on individuals that reduces the tax incidence of people with smaller incomes, as they shift the incidence disproportionately to those with higher incomes - the top 0.1% of taxpayers by income pay 17.4% of federal income taxes (earning 9.1% of the income), the top 1% with gross income of $328,049 or more pay 36.9% (earning 19%), the top 5% with gross income of $137,056 or more pay 57.1% (earning 33.4%), and the bottom 50% with gross income of $30,122 or less pay 3.3% (earning 13.4%).[11][12] If the federal taxation rate is compared with the wealth distribution rate, the net wealth (not only income but also including real estate, cars, house, stocks, etc) distribution of the United States does almost coincide with the share of income tax - the top 1% pay 36.9% of federal tax (wealth 32.7%), the top 5% pay 57.1% (wealth 57.2%), top 10% pay 68% (wealth 69.8%), and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% (wealth 2.8%).

Unfortunately, I could not find the federal PDF on income distribution, as it's show that the numbers in wikipedia are pretty old, and as per wealth, the top five has more wealth than tax percentage.
-Crissa
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