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## Undead Paragons: Making PCs even freakier beyond the Grave

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Prak
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### Undead Paragons: Making PCs even freakier beyond the Grave

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Post by Prak » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:02 am

(and other related subjects)
The following things are the result of me playing around with various templates and ideas in order to make them more player friendly and accessible. All PRCs require the character to be undead, and frequently have additional prerequisites.
Negative Energy Infused
The Negative Energy Infused is an undead who, somehow, is not only animated by negative energy, but has a deep inherent connection to it. This may come from age, an extended trip to the Plane of Negative Energy, or random occurrence, but regardless of how it happens, they practically drip Negative Energy, and their body is made the stronger for it.
Inspired by: Evolved Undead
Requirements
Base Will Save: +5
Skills: Kn. The Planes 10r
Game Info
HD: d12
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Good Will and Fort
Skills: Bluff, Hide, Kn the Planes, Kn Arcana, Kn Religion, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot (4/lv)
Level--Special
1--Bad Vibes, Fast Healing, Reinforced Hide/Bolstered Essence, Craft of the Grave
2--Necro-Feedback Loop
3--Maw of Blackness
Fast Healing The creature gains Fast Healing 1. Each additional level of Negative Energy Infused raises the amount you heal each round by 1 point.
Reinforced Hide/Bolstered Essence Corporeal undead notice that the necromantic energies that seep into their forms cause a noticeable toughening. Their tougher hide/stronger bones grant them a +1 NA bonus, or increase an existing NA by 1. This bonus increases by 1 for each level of Negative Energy Infused taken. Incorporeal undead instead notice their essence becomes better at repelling attacks, gaining a +1 deflection bonus, or increasing an existing one. This bonus increases by 1 for every additional level of Negative Energy Infused taken. They also gain a +2 increase to str and cha (+4 cha for Incorporeal Undead), which increase by 2 every third level (3, 6, 9, etc.) of this class.
Craft of the Grave Living hundreds of years through strength of will has a funny effect on your skills. You tend to become an expert, then a paragon, and finally an avatar of the task. Due to their long lives, and, perhaps, Negative Energy bolstering their existing abilities in an effort to protect itself, a feature from a prior class (such as Rage from Barbarian, Bonus Feats from Fighter, Sneak Attack from Rogue, or Spellcasting from Spellcasters) counts Negative Energy Infused as levels of that class for advancement purposes.
Bad Vibes You have an extremely creepy aura due to the influx of Negative Energy constantly feeding into your body and dissipating into the world. This has two effects: first, you constantly exude a Fear Aura, with the added feature that most mundane animals will be skittish or hostile to you, depending on their nature. However, animals commonly seen as symbols of, or attracted to, death or sickness will have no aversion to you, are unaffected by your fear aura, and in fact rather like you. These include cats, bats, spiders, ravens, rats, etc. Second, you may make a touch attack that deals 1d6/ChLv Negative Energy damage, which, of course, heals undead. Finally, fortune tellers and spiritually inclined stoners will commonly regard you as a bad omen, and a serious drain on mood and resources, just by your very presence, and will either run, curse you, or try to run you off, whether they're actually affected by your Fear Aura or not. (Affected animals and such people start of as hostile towards you, with the DC to improve their attitude always 10 points higer per three levels.)
Necro-Feedback Loop At second level, you learn how to use your link to the plane of negative energy to channel a continuous loop of necrotic spirit stuff, forming a feedback energy loop which renecrotizes you and harms your enemies. This loop creates a palpable field of negative energy which deals a d6/2ChLv of negative energy per round to any target out to 10'. You can only maintain this loop for up to a number of rounds equal to your Cha Mod+3 before you burn out the energies and loose your connection. At the end of this loop, you loose your Bad Vibes and Fast Healing abilities from this class for a number of rounds equal to how long the loop was active, during which time your normal link to the Plane of Negative Energy reopens and begins to trickle your usual flow of energy back into you. When you acquire Maw of Blackness, you will loose use of that ability during this recharge time as well.
Maw of Blackness At third level, you gain a potent ability which emulates the all consuming nature of Negative Energy. 1/day, for a number of rounds equal to twice your Cha mod, your mouth may function as a window the Plane of Negative Energy. Your mouth horrifically distends to roughly a quarter of your height, and seems to stretch at the sides as well. You gain a bite attack which deals damage appropriate to your size, but also deals damage as your touch attack from Bad Vibes, and it is treated as a magic weapon of sharpness. Limbs severed with this ability are devoured by the Plane of Negative Energy, but they are also instantly animated. While using this ability you may summon (as summon monster) the limbs and extremities you've severed. They are Tiny Undead, but otherwise have the stats of a similarly shaped animal (spiders represent hands, snakes represent arms and legs). Finally, you gain the Swallow Whole ability in this state, with the usual size restrictions. However, creatures you swallow are not sent to your stomach as usual, but to the Plane of Negative Energy. If they escape (use the standard rules for escaping swallow, they're just fighting sentient strands of negative energy rather than a digestive track), they emerge from the Negative Energy Infused's mouth. However, any creature who dies without escaping this swallow can later be summoned by the Negative Energy Infused as if they were an undead created by a Necromantic Creation Feat for 2rnds/Caster Level.
Negative Energy Infused may use Maw of Blackness 3/day at fifth level, and at will at seventh.
Variable Length Class This class doesn't have a maximum number of levels. A character can take as many as he wishes, and abilities stated to improve by level continue to improve, whether the character takes 3 or 30 levels.
------------------------
So, go on, tell me how horrible that is.
Last edited by Prak on Fri May 13, 2011 9:26 am, edited 5 times in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:19 pm

Necro-feedback loop quickly becomes useless as you take many levels of the class.
With this class having 3/4 BAB and the possibility of advancing spell casting (and the Know (planes) requirement), this is basically a way to finish out a vampire paragon sorcerer with massive save DCs.
[edit] Also, negative energy suffused or negative energy infused? You must decide! [/edit]
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
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Quantumboost
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### Re: Undead Paragons: Making PCs even freakier beyond the Gra

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Post by Quantumboost » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:09 pm

> Prak_Anima wrote:Reinforced Hide/Bolstered Essence Corporeal undead notice that the necromantic energies that seep into their forms cause a noticeable toughening. Their tougher hide/stronger bones grant them a +1 NA bonus. This bonus increases by 1 for each level of Negative Energy Suffused taken. Incorporeal undead instead notice their essence becomes better at repelling attacks, gaining a +1 deflection bonus. This bonus increases by 1 for every additional level of Negative Energy Suffused taken. [...]

Since corporeal undead often already have natural armor bonuses and incorporeals almost universally have deflection bonuses, those parts of this ability won't stack with the ones they already have. What you *probably* mean to say is that it increases their Natural Armor bonus or Deflection bonus due to Incorporeality by +1, rather than that it gives them [new] bonuses of those types.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:02 pm

> CatharzGodfoot wrote:Necro-feedback loop quickly becomes useless as you take many levels of the class.

yeah, thinking about it a few minutes ago, I think Necro-Feedback Loop is more a flavour ability right now. Hmmm....what if instead of increasing fast healing, it gave regeneration?

> [edit] Also, negative energy suffused or negative energy infused? You must decide! [/edit]

...did I use both? whoops. I'll fix that.
....which one sounds better?

> quantumboost wrote:Since corporeal undead often already have natural armor bonuses and incorporeals almost universally have deflection bonuses, those parts of this ability won't stack with the ones they already have. What you *probably* mean to say is that it increases their Natural Armor bonus or Deflection bonus due to Incorporeality by +1, rather than that it gives them [new] bonuses of those types.

um... yeah. >.> It was late.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:05 pm

> Prak_Anima wrote:

> > CatharzGodfoot wrote:Necro-feedback loop quickly becomes useless as you take many levels of the class.

> yeah, thinking about it a few minutes ago, I think Necro-Feedback Loop is more a flavour ability right now. Hmmm....what if instead of increasing fast healing, it gave regeneration?

Undead with Con scores should get regeneration anyway. Undead without Con scores should never get regeneration.
How about a negative energy aura dealing something like character level/3 d6 damage every round, plus a save vs 1 negative level. This would last a number of rounds equal to the character's class level and have a radius of 10' per class level; afterwards their abilities would be knocked out for the same number of rounds that the feedback loop was active.
[Edit] Also, you should make it clear that the character still has use of her abilities during the loop, just not after. [/edit]

> > [edit] Also, negative energy suffused or negative energy infused? You must decide! [/edit]

> ...did I use both? whoops. I'll fix that.
> ....which one sounds better?

Infused.
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:09 pm

> CatharzGodfoot wrote:

> > Prak_Anima wrote:

> > > CatharzGodfoot wrote:Necro-feedback loop quickly becomes useless as you take many levels of the class.

> > yeah, thinking about it a few minutes ago, I think Necro-Feedback Loop is more a flavour ability right now. Hmmm....what if instead of increasing fast healing, it gave regeneration?

> Undead with Con scores should get regeneration anyway. Undead without Con scores should never get regeneration.

Oh, shit, right, the con-less subdual immuntity thing...

> How about a negative energy aura dealing something like character level/2 d6 damage every round, plus a save vs 1 negative level. This would last a number of rounds equal to the character's class level and have a radius of 10' per class level; afterwards their abilities would be knocked out for the same number of rounds that the feedback loop was active.

...ok, I like that and I can reword slightly to make the idea of the feedback loop fit that mechanic.

> > > [edit] Also, negative energy suffused or negative energy infused? You must decide! [/edit]

> > ...did I use both? whoops. I'll fix that.
> > ....which one sounds better?

> Infused.

yeah suffused wasn't really sounding right.
Last edited by Prak on Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:45 am

I'll go on and add this. I did it for a game that's on hold recently.
Revenant Paragon
Good BAB
Good Fort and Will
6 + Int—Mobility, Social skills, anything really.
1 Karmic Tracking, Those Eyes
2 Aura of the Nemesis, Vengeance Strike
3 Bad Motherfucker, Guilt-wracked Sleep
Karmic Tracking: The Revenant Paragon always knows the direction to the people he has a connection (friends, foes, aliies, family, etc) with. Always. And he can even tell friendly from unfriendly.
Those Eyes: The fires of vengeance burn in the Revenant's eyes like a fever. Standard Action, will save to avoid shaken for 1d4. Can stack fear effects.
At level 3, this hits them with a negative level as well, which lasts for as long as the shaken
Aura of the Nemesis: Half-character levels as a bonus to Bluff, Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Diplomacy.
Vengeance Strike: Can inflict Vile Damage on people in melee by making attacks Supernatural. Also, ignores any and all damage reduction on specific targets who have wronged you (i.e., have killed you or are allies of people who killed you.)
Bad Motherfucker: The Revenant gains a 2d6 + Str Constrict attack in a grapple, as he throttles his enemies. He's also come to terms with his inner rage, and can intimidate people within thirty feet. This profound self-acceptance renders him immune to mind-affecting effects and diplomacy.
Guilt-wracked sleep: When his enemies sleep, the Revenant Paragon can invade their dreams to haunt their nightmares. He may talk with them as if they were awake, and affects them as if by a Nightmare effect. When they wake up, they find a token to know it wasn't just a dream, if the Revenant so wishes it.
Last edited by Maxus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:57 am

Swarmshifter
Certain undead gain the ability, whether through arcane study or supplication to dark, unholy powers, or just getting in touch with their inner MPD, to change from their normal form to a writhing mass of some other smaller creature.
Requirements
Type Undead
Special Must be corporeal
Game Info
HD: d12
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Ref
Skills: Bluff, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot (4/Lv)
Level--Special
1--Swarm Form, Hive Mind
2--Bonus Feat
3--Swarm Form (extra form)
4--Bonus Feat
5--Swarm Form (free action)
Swarm Form The Swarmshifter may, at will, as a move action, change into a specific type of swarm. This act infuses the Undead with a small amount of negative energy, healing 1 hp/ChLv upon changing, but only from normal to swarm form. Changing back, or going from one form to another, does not heal.
If the Swarmshifter reassumes his normal form in a space which would not accommodate it, he may make a grapple check (because of the bonuses that apply), vrs 10 plus the constraining material's hardness (use the highest if multiple materials are constraining), if he succeeds, he breaks free, destroying the container.
This effect acts as an Alter Self effect, meaning the swarmshifter's equipment is absorbed during the change and provide no benefit, unless specially enchanted. Using True Seeing on a Swarm Shifter reveals both his main form and his swarm forms to be his "true" forms. A Swarmshifter in Swarm Form gains a +10 bonus to disguise checks to act as a normal grouping of it's constituent parts.
If enough damage is done that the swarm would normally disperse, the undead creature is instead "destroyed," and act normally for their type and abilities (meaning vampires and lichs come back unless the swarm was slain in a way which would slay a vampire or lich, respectively).
At third level, an additional form is gained, and the Swarmshifter may change between the two forms freely. Also, at third level, the Swarmshifter may assume a swarm form as a move-equivalent action.
At fifth level it is a free action to assume a swarm form.
Assuming Swarm Form is a supernatural effect, and is thus suppressed in an anti-magic field, but being in swarm form is not. (ie, you cannot change into a swarm in the field, but entering one doesn't cause you to change back).
Hive Mind While in a swarm form, a Swarmshifter is immune to spells and spell like abilities which target a specific number of creatures (regardless of what that number is) unless that effect is turn/destroy/rebuke/command. A Swarmshifter is turned/rebuked/etc. as normal for his base form and levels.
Bonus Feat At second and fourth level, a swarm shifter gains a bonus feat, selected from Undead, Necromantic, or Monstrous Feats for which it qualifies.
Swarm Forms
All Swarm Forms gain the Swarm and Distraction special attacks
Diminutive and Fine Swarms are Immune to Weapon Damage
Tiny Swarms (asuming a medium base) receive +2 size to AC and attacks,
Swarm of Undead Bats
Diminutive Undead (Swarm)
Speed: 5 ft, Fly 40 ft. (good)
Special Attacks: Wounding wounds continue to bleed, causing 1 hp loss per turn. Doesn't stack with itself, can be stopped with a DC 10 heal check, or any healing magic.
Special Qualities: Blindsense 20 ft. echolocation
Other Creatures These stats could also represent a swarm of undead birds if the Blindsense was removed and replaced with Keen Vision, or if Blindsense was reflavoured as scent-based for carrion eaters, such as crows.
Swarm of Undead Beetles
Diminutive Undead (Swarm)
Speed: 30 ft., burrow 20 ft., fly 10 ft. (poor)
Special Qualities: Tremoursense 60'
Other Creatures: Remove land and burrow speeds and tremoursene, and increase flight to 30 ft (perfect) to represent Undead Dragonflies
Swarm of Undead Centipedes
Diminutive Undead (Swarm)
Speed: 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison (ex) Swarm attack, Fortitude DC 10+1/2ChLv+Cha mod, initial and secondary damage 1d4 dex.
Swarm of Undead Flies
Fine Undead (Swarm)
Speed: Fly 40 ft. (perfect)
Special Attacks: Disease: Red Ache-Swarm attack, Fortitude DC 10+1/2ChLv+Cha mod, incubation period 1d3 days, damage 1d8 dex
Other Creatures Can also represent mosquitoes. Replace Disease with Camouflage to represent mantises. Replace Disease with centipede(^) poison for Bees.
Swarm of Undead Leeches
Diminutive Undead (Aquatic, Swarm)
Speed: 5 ft., swim 30 ft.
Special Attacks: Wounding wounds continue to bleed, causing 1 hp loss per turn. Doesn't stack with itself, can be stopped with a DC 10 heal check, or any healing magic.
Special Qualities: Tremoursense 30 ft.
Other Creatures Squid and octopi, remove land speed for piranhas.
Swarm of Undead Maggots
Fine Undead (Swarm)
Speed: 20 ft.
Special Attacks: Extend Nausea: the nausea of a maggot swarm remains for 2d4 rounds.
Other Creatures Worms, other insect larva.
Swarm of Undead Parts
Tiny Undead (Swarm)
This swarm is comprised of the undeads actual body parts, such as a pile of bones, rotted flesh, organs, and viscera. It can ooze over the ground or rise into the air in a twisting cyclone.
Speed: 20 ft., fly 20 ft. (poor)
Special Attacks: Fearsome Presence creatures attacked by a swarm of undead parts must save as normal for the Frightful Presence quality.
Parts composed of the body parts of the undead, this swarm deals an extra d6 with it's swarm attack.
Swarm of Undead Piranhas
Diminutive Undead (Aquatic, Swarm)
Speed: Swim 40 ft.
Special Attacks: Enhanced damage A piranha swarm deals 2d6 with it's swarm attack.
Special Qualities: Tremoursense 30 ft.
Other Creatures Squid and octopi (add 5' land speed), small sharks.
Swarm of Undead Rats
Tiny Undead (Swarm)
Speed: 15 ft, climb 15 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease Filth Fever--swarm attack, Fortitude DC 10+1/2ChLv+Cha mod, incubation period 1d3 days, damage 1d3 dex and con.
Special Qualities: Scent
Other Creatures: Can also represent squirrels.
Swarm of Undead Sand/Tomb Dust/Grave Dirt
Fine Undead (Swarm)
Speed: Fly 60 ft. (perfect)
Other Creatures Bloody ice and snow, gore soaked scree.
Swarm of Undead Scorpions
Diminutive Undead (Swarm)
Speed: 20 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison (ex): Swarm attack, Fortitude DC 10+1/2ChLv+cha mod, initial and secondary damage 1d2 con
Special Qualities: Tremoursense 60 ft.
Other Creatures Replace poison damage with 1d3 Str, add Climb 20 ft. for spiders.
Feat:Extra Swarm Form [Undead]
You've learned to disperse your body into a new form.
Prerequisite: Two Swarm Forms
Benefit: You may choose an additional swarm form which you may assume at will. This feat may be taken multiple times.
Last edited by Prak on Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:36 am, edited 5 times in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:04 am

> Maxus wrote:At level 3, this hits them with an Ennervation

Usable at will? Caster Level?

> Guilt-wracked sleep: When his enemies sleep, the Revenant Paragon can invade their dreams to haunt their nightmares. He may talk with them as if they were awake, and affects them as if by a Nightmare effect. When they wake up, they find a token to know it wasn't just a dream, if the Revenant so wishes it.

What counts as a token? Does the Revanent have to have the object, or does it materialize? If I can haunt my enemies' dreams and leave horse heads in their beds, possibly leaving different pieces as I get closer, until they've received an entire horse and I kill them the next day, that's pretty damned bad ass.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:13 pm

> Prak_Anima wrote:

> > Maxus wrote:At level 3, this hits them with an Ennervation

> Usable at will? Caster Level?

> > Guilt-wracked sleep: When his enemies sleep, the Revenant Paragon can invade their dreams to haunt their nightmares. He may talk with them as if they were awake, and affects them as if by a Nightmare effect. When they wake up, they find a token to know it wasn't just a dream, if the Revenant so wishes it.

> What counts as a token? Does the Revanent have to have the object, or does it materialize? If I can haunt my enemies' dreams and leave horse heads in their beds, possibly leaving different pieces as I get closer, until they've received an entire horse and I kill them the next day, that's pretty damned bad ass.

Actually, the ennervation needs work. I was editing as I was going along. But, yes, assume caster level equals character level. It'll probably get replaced, though.
And, a token can be just about anything. There's some evil black deer-monster statted up (Black Stag, I believe) who, once it curses you, harrasses you at night every night. And when you wake up, you find the severed head of a normal buck at the foot of your bed. I found this awesome enough to steal.
And it can honestly by anything. You can't mysteriously come up with valuables to leave them, but if you want to leave them one of your things, go for it. But you can create/produce any sort of non-valuable token, so have fun with it. Leave behind playing cards or bodyparts of a horse or the junk of underlings.
Last edited by Maxus on Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:45 pm

Prak, don't you think that a class that grants a bonus feat every level in addition to spell casting (and other stuff) is a bit much?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:21 pm

shit, you're probably right, catharz. I need to stop working on these when I'm sleep deprived. 3rd and 5th level?
edit: actually... to hell with Craft of the Grave, if a caster wants to take it, they dip or start casting worse than a cohort, oh well.
but are bonus feats at every level a problem on their own?
Last edited by Prak on Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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For Valor
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Post by For Valor » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:34 am

maybe make them bonus monstrous or undead feats.

> Mask wrote:And for the love of all that is good and unholy, just get a fucking hippogrif mount and pretend its a flying worg.

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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:15 am

> Prak_Anima wrote:shit, you're probably right, catharz. I need to stop working on these when I'm sleep deprived. 3rd and 5th level?
> edit: actually... to hell with Craft of the Grave, if a caster wants to take it, they dip or start casting worse than a cohort, oh well.
> but are bonus feats at every level a problem on their own?

Generally, a feat is worth the entire allotment of class features for one level. I don't think that's a law, but it's a solid guideline.
Consider the balance of shifting form at different speeds. I'd probably make it a move action at level one, and give hive mind. At level two you get a bonus feat. At level three you can do it as a swift action (and maybe an additional form--but that's questionable*). At level four you get another bonus feat, and at level five you can shift as a free action (and maybe another form*). Free actions can generally be taken out of turn (especially if you specify that they can), so the immediate action 'upgrade' is generally useless.

* An undead creature that can turn into sand (and only sand) should be perfectly viable. Being the guy that can turn into sand, beetles, and the ghosts of a million dead mosquitoes should be valid as well. Therefore, additional forms should probably be restricted to bonus feats.
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Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
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Post by Prak » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:26 am

> For Valor wrote:maybe make them bonus monstrous or undead feats.

They are:

> Swarmshifter wrote:Bonus Feat: At each level, a swarm shifter gains a bonus feat, selected from Undead, Necromantic, or Monstrous Feats for which it qualifies.

emphasis added.
Catharz: yeah, I was kinda iffy on that many feats. Also didn't know free actions could generally be taken out of turn. Ok, that simplifies things, and makes the class easier to swallow.
Edit: ok, made the changes Catharz suggested, made Piranha their own swarm form based on a friend's reasoning, also added bees as variant of fly swarm, now you can play Swarm from marvel, the nazi intelligence composed of a swarm of bees in a purple cloak.
Last edited by Prak on Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Post by For Valor » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:57 am

> Prak_Anima wrote:

> > Swarmshifter wrote:Bonus Feat: At each level, a swarm shifter gains a bonus feat, selected from Undead, Necromantic, or Monstrous Feats for which it qualifies.

> emphasis added.

X_X
*cannot read*

> Mask wrote:And for the love of all that is good and unholy, just get a fucking hippogrif mount and pretend its a flying worg.

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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:48 pm

Either a some of these forms should be a lot faster, or others should be a lot slower. Sentient swarms generally move at a stampede pace (in movies, anyway). A cloud of flies shouldn't be going faster than a horde of rats.
So either these swarms are actually moving at an all-out run normally, or they should be moving faster that 15' (especially when a pile of dirt is moving four times that fast).
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
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Post by Prak » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:11 pm

ugh, yeah. I was copying straight from LM, so it's just WotC's usual wtf-ery
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Post by Prak » Fri May 13, 2011 12:16 pm

Ok, so I just saw Priest, and it was pretty good. Also got me thinking about the whole symbol of conviction vrs. undead thing, so I'm necroing and modifying my oldish undead thread.
Conviction of Spirit
Faith as a Weapon Against the Anathemic Hordes
The idea of one's faith as a weapon or protection is an old one. It's at least as old as the middle ages, and frankly, older than that as it's kind of what's going on in some of the Bible's stranger stories. In Norse Mythology, the "Good Ending" to life was dying in battle, glorifying Odin, and being picked up by a sexy warrior chick to be drafted into Odin's personal army in Valhalla, where you kick ass all day, feast and wench all night, and rinse and repeat until the day Loki escapes and you stream out of Valhalla's many doors to fight the Giants. In games this is all the more common, for example, Paladin smite abilities.
In this spirit, a more comprehensive system for weaponized faith in D&D, which may border on the broken (please, let me know).
Basically holiness is treated as fire, or acid. The more there is, the more damage the target takes. However, at the same time, I'm going to vastly simplify things by saying that "holy" merely refers to something which is related to, or pertaining to a religion, regardless of it's alignment. So the relic fist of one of Bane's original disciples is just as holy as an arrow from the quiver of Ehlonnah. "Unholy" refers to something that is counter to one's religion. So industry and cities are unholy to Obad Hai, while the sun is unholy to a god of night (save for systems where light and dark get along). To make things easier, I'll use the term "Anathema" more than "Unholy." It means the same thing, it's just not a specific term in D&D, other than the name of one specific subtype of a product identity creature group.
More so, due to the nature of religion in D&D and my own personal leanings on the subject of weaponized holy items, pretty much anything can be a holy symbol. Most important is that the wielder can focus their own personal faith through the item due to it's resonance with the faith. The other important thing is that the thing you have faith in actually stand against the thing you're trying to damage. So a pelorian can use a sun wheel to harm vampires, an asatru can use a hammer as a holy symbol against giants, but is probably a bit screwed against vampires (but hey, it's still a hammer, and you can argue with your dm that vampires, due to their undead nature, they're denying the afterlife, they've either excaped Hel, or spat in Odin's face). An Orcusite ain't doing shit to vampires with their mini-rod of Orcus, but, on the other hand, they're pretty good to have if your group gets attacked by a lot of celestials.
So basically you have a few levels of holy items.
Form: the item is physically a holy symbol. So, a cross shaped piece of wood to a christian, a sun wheel for a pelorian, a hammer for an asgardian, a pentacle, upright for wiccans, inverted for satanists, and so on. Basically, it's shape is sufficient to act as a focus, and that's it.
Sanctified: the item has actually been blessed by a representative of the belief system. So a cross blessed by a priest is more potent than just a cross, a sun wheel blessed by a paladin of Pelor better than the sun wheel alone, etc. Nonholy symbols ca be sanctified too, swords and other weapons are common. The wielder recognizes the "enhancement" and their faith is amplified. The higher up the representative, the better it functions.
Codifier: A special class for things which, basically, literally are the belief system. A bible, for example. A cross may hold a lot of meaning, but a bible actually describes and codifies the belief, and thus is meaning itself. Generally this means holding a book in the face of horror, and repelling it with holy word. However, it also covers meaningful scripture passages inscribed or written on items. If it is inscribed or written on something which is covered by another class, the magnitude is raised by half the magnitude of the Codifier, rounded up, as the end clause below (beware anathema high level clerics with their entire religious text tattooed on their flesh in the shapes of holy symbols).
Embodied: Sometimes, a person is as potent as a symbol. Or maybe the person actually is a symbol in their own right. Regardless of how you look at it, clerics and paladins are pretty potent in the fight against the unholy. Their magnitude increases with their aura.
Enacted: Rituals can have their own power as well. they uplift the faithful, and can act to draw out, amplify, be a focus for, and generate more faith, all at once. If you can actually draw an anathema into the ritual, then it can be even more devastating. Typically an Enacted symbol entails reenacting a particularly holy scene from the stories of a belief system, though occasionally a belief system has types of activity that are considered holy. Propositioning a follower of an anathema sex deity will not go pleasantly, and if a group of Christians can get some demons to play the part of the Romans at the garden of Gethsemane, well, sucks to be a demon that day.
Combinations: It is entirely possible that a holy item will fit into more than one category. It's even possible, nay, likely, that a person will try to combine as many classes of holy symbol as possible (regardless of how you feel about the religion, the image of a combat pope with the entire bible tattooed on his flesh in shapes of fish, crosses, lambs, and flaming swords drawing vampires into a reenactment of a scene from the bible would be kind of epic). In this case, take the highest magnitude class, that's the base. In the parenthetical example, that would probably be the pope level embodied. Then, take each other class, and divide their magnitudes by the total number of holy symbols. So, lets say that the parenthetical pope has a back piece that's patterned off of an alter, and three separate pieces on either shoulder, and his chest, Alpha, Omega, and a fish. The back piece is six symbols (altar, and the five crosses on the altar), plus the Alpha, Omega and Fish symbols is nine, plus the fact that the tattoo lines are scripture, ten, the pope probably blesses his tattoos before fighting the vampires, 11, plus himself. He has 12 holy symbols before we even equip him, and that's counting only one over all santification, then he draws the vampires into an Enactment. So each symbol beyond the embodiment has it's magnitude divided by thirteen, and rounded up, so probably only one magnitude each, but it's an impressive sight, so we're not going to give him grief. Then all those magnitudes are added together, for the total Holy Symbol Magnitude.
Special Note- Relics: Relics are items that belonged, or are connected to influential, or particularly pious figures from the history of a belief system. In addition to the powers the individual item may have, they count as a single holy symbol for purposes of combination with other holy symbols, though their individual magnitude is figured differently, see below.
Magnitudes
So we know what can be used, but what does it do. Well, an item has it's relevant statistic increased by one step per magnitude, so if as Asatru clubs a vampire over the head with a replica of Mjolnir, it's damage dice are increased. If a christian knight has a cross on their shield, it's armour bonus is increased. For things not inherently weaponized or defensive, such as simple symbols, embodiments or enactments, they basically gain the stat relevant to how they're being used, starting at, basically, a negative step. So if you're wanting to use a cross to burn a vampire, it has to be magnitude two before it actually does much beyond annoy it. Trying to burn a grappling vampire as an embodiment is similar, though an embodiment punching a vampire counts as starting as a weapon. Now, actual magnitude scales:
Form

Size/Weight | Magnitude
Fine/ less than a pound | 1
Diminutive/ 1-4 lbs | 2
Tiny/ 5-10 lbs | 3
Small/ 11-20 lbs | 4
Medium/ 21-40 lbs | 5
Large/ 41-80 lbs | 6
Huge/ 81-160 lbs | 7
Gargantuan/ 161-320 lbs | 8
Colossal/ 321 or more lbs | 9
Use the greater of size or weight, round up for qeights between magnitudes.

Sanctified are created through blessing by another Holy Symbol, gaining a magnitude of 2/3 that of the sanctifying symbol.
Codifiers

Amount of Scripture | Magnitude
Verse (generally a single line) | 1 per verse, max of 5
Chapter or Hymn (a series of verses; generally about a page) | Magnitude for the number of verses, plus one per chapter past the first (total max of 10).
Book or Service (a series of chapters or Hymns; Roughly 10 pages or so) | Magnitude for number of chapters, plus one per book beyond the first (total max of 15).
Work (an entire holy book, or an entire song book; page count will vary, usually at least 300) | 20.
For inscription, follow the alternate spell book rules from CAr. Space required can be decreased by increasing the craft dc by five for every halving. Increasing the size taken does not affect the craft DC.

Embodied magnitude equals 3/4 the character's HD.
Enacted

Duration | Magnitude
Rounds | 1 Magnitude per round until it reaches a minute:
Minutes | 3 Magnitude per minute until it reaches an hour:
Hours | 5 magnitude per hour until it reaches a day:
Days | 10 magnitude per day until you reach a month:
Months | Tricking an Anathema into an enactment for this long means you win through the sheer magnitude of your balls. Congrats.

Relics are basically Embodied Forms, acting as a stand in for the holy personage they once were connected to, Sanctified by that person, but count as only two classes for figuring their own Magnitude. Generally a Relic has a magnitude equal to 1 1/4 the HD of the connected Embodied (3/4 as the embodied, plus 1/2 for being Sanctified by the Embodied), plus 1/2 the magnitude appropriate to it as a Form Holy symbol. So, according to Deities and Demigods, if you weilded the actual Mjolnir, a Relic of Thor, it's magnitude would be 84 (45 as an Embodied, plus 30 for being Sanctified by Thor, plus 9 for being two tons), in addition to it's other qualities. But, of course, you have to be able to lift it.
Another Example:
Pelor's own Sunscepter
45 for Pelor's Embodied Magnitude
30 for being sanctified by Pelor
3 for being a Heavy Mace
78 total (though that fact that it's essentially a piece of the sun could be ruled to increase that)
Alright, that's what I've got. Tear it apart. (vampires used heavily due to just seeing Priest)
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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