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## Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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TRQ
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### Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by TRQ » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:27 am

For some time now, off and on, I have been working on an RPG setting based on Jewish Mysticism, pre- and post-Kaballah. I really could go on forever talking about magic in Jewish Mysticism, and I will if anyone's interested. I don't actually believe in the stuff... I just believe it makes for a great campaign setting, and solves so many of the flavor problems with d20 magic. For now, I really just wanted to ask some questions that you could think about and answer without knowing anything at all. I want to make a campaign world (economy, history) that's consistent with the rules, and that's tricky without getting input from other people.
First question: Weekly spellcasting quotas.
(Stuff to keep in mind: Every PC in this system is a Rabbi, the only spellcasting class for PCs, but they do have plenty of non-caster cohorts (think Ars Magica). This spellcasting is supposed to be quite versatile, although there is lots of forced specialization, so they'll be versatile within restrictions. Every rabbi can have one golem under his control at all times... some rabbis specialize in golem manipulation and fighting. Angels get mad if you cast spells needlessly.)
Shabbat occurs from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (all days are measured from sunset to sunset). You are allowed to: eat, pray, exercise, play games, open doors, relax, and have sex. You may not: cook, fast, travel, work, engage in commerce, attack, cast spells, or command your golem to break the laws of the sabbath, or do anything else God wouldn't do (yes, God loves having sex on Shabbat!! Although its with that bitch of a handmaiden...). Some spells (summoning an angelic minyan, golem creation, weekly duration, etc) can be cast as part of the shabbat liturgy. Technically, one is always allowed to defend oneself on the Sabbath, superceding the previous rules - however, it is the higher standard of purity that grants rabbis their sway over the angels, so the only thing they can really do without risk of impurity is command a golem to fight back in self-defense. Completing the Shabbat liturgy successfully will renew the spell quota for the following week. Failure will make the rabbi impure (a nasty condition, I have rules about it, but basically, no spellcasting until you've fasted and completed a Shabbat).
Luckily, rabbinical spellcasting is the only magic that exists, and everyone abides by these rules. The entire population of Europe observes the Sabbath, as well as demons, angels, and other heavenly creations. Generally one need only fear wild animals. So theoretically people could attack each other on Shabbat, but both sides would sin and neither would get to cast spells for the next week.
On shabbat, a rabbi selects X spells from amongst the (possibly limitless) number of spells he's studied, and makes them his spells known for the week. Over the course of this week, he may cast Y spells as prepared spells, which he must prepare for the following day at evening prayers, and can only prepare about Y/2 on a given day. Over the course of the week, he may also cast Z spells (Z<<Y) spontaneously from his spells known list, at any time. I don't actually mean for X,Y,Z to be specific numbers, they might represent a certain number of spells of each level, or a certain number of mana points worth, or whatever.
*****************
Now my question is: What comes as a natural result of these rules (just as the wish economy is a natural result of the d20 rules)? How does it affect wars between nations (Rabbis on both sides)? Crusades where the Rabbis attempt to reconquer the demon-infested Holy Land? Some rabbis in a dungeon crawl (a less emphasized thing in this setting)? Political missions? Economics? Travel planning? The typical thursday afternoon?
If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading.
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shirak
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by shirak » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:52 pm

I assume you can't call up demons who can tell the shabath restriction to go take a flying leap. In this case, I'd say everything remains the same as with normal D&D except people guard themselves very well during the shabath. Your enemy being unable to cast spells for a week is meaningless if you're dead and he is still protected by his buddies (who, of course, keep him safe so he can atone for his sins).
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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:58 pm

Wouldn't the Jewish god just masturbate on sabbath?
It would seem no one else can match His Perfection. That makes for some difficulty in getting action... the partner would have to be equally perfect, and in doing so the whole system becomes pagan with two equally powerful deities. oi!!!
Regardless, looks interesting, but I wouldn't be able to resist making semi-anti-semitic jokes. Me playing a rabbi would guaranteed end up becoming sort of like a Mel Brooks film.
Kabbala is cool though, very unique and detailed. The tales are intricate and entertaining and it's sad there aren't more direct references in D&D, but more of a vague, warped imitation (damn you Gygax!)
Angelic heirarchies, for instance, are reallllly fuuuucked uuuup in D&D....

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:05 pm

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

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Manxome
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Manxome » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:24 pm

I think losing spellcasting for a week is a pittance compared to any effect that would actually get that level of complicance with the restrictions in a setting with D&D levels of power and violence.
Deliberately attacking someone during Shabbat would need to be essentially suicidal in order to prevent it from having strategic utility, especially if they're punished for defending themselves. Tag-team attack and the target can only use magic to defend himself against one of the two strikes. Hire some mooks to provoke your enemy into casting a spell. Even simply attacking when you know they have no magical protections up and you can surprise them has got to be a huge tactical advantage.
Seriously, demons observe the Sabbath? Why? Out of respect?
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Catharz
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Catharz » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:45 am

> Manxome at [unixtime wrote:1189466654[/unixtime]]Deliberately attacking someone during Shabbat would need to be essentially suicidal in order to prevent it from having strategic utility, especially if they're punished for defending themselves.

It's a deadly sin, and as far as I know Yahweh is not a forgiving god.
...Wait a minute, are those Christian?

> Manxome at [unixtime wrote:1189466654[/unixtime]]Seriously, demons observe the Sabbath? Why? Out of respect?

Yes.
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Cielingcat
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Cielingcat » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:59 am

Deadly Sins are Christian, but the Jewish god will seriously smite you if you don't observe the Sabbath.
CHICKENS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO COCAINE, SILKY HEN

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Manxome
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Manxome » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:04 am

We're not talking about the actual religion(s), we're talking about the system outlined in the first post.

> So theoretically people could attack each other on Shabbat, but both sides would sin and neither would get to cast spells for the next week.

That suggests that not getting to cast spells for a week is among the direst consequences.
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Catharz
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Catharz » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:06 am

Good point.
OK, so would anyone how knows a thing or two about Kaballah outline the actual mechanics? Like, do you have to study the Torah? Does magic come directly from praying to god? Is the study more contemplation or more finding hidden meanings (i.e. numerology)?
Does the power of a phylactery come from the written words, your understanding of the words, or the symbolic connection to God?
Basically I'm wondering whether it's more wizard casting or priest casting.
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ckafrica
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by ckafrica » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:00 am

I believe you send money to Madonna and put a piece of string on your wrist to get uber buffs of +3000 to all stats and abilities on the buff is an illusion with a DC 1 for all opponents to disbelieve
The internet gave a voice to the world thus gave definitive proof that the world is mostly full of idiots.
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TRQ
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by TRQ » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:39 am

Quite right Manxome. I was unsure exactly what to do with the problem of wars being staged on shabbat, clearly the opposite of the intention. It's perfectly consistent with the way magic works to say that spells simply don't work on the Sabbath, since the angels are too busy praising God to do anything else. Fighting men could then try to wage war on Shabbat, but it would really only favor the defenders, whose Rabbinical leaders wouldn't then be impure the next day.
Sig, you're actually partially right... since every angel, every demon, the heavenly palaces and chariots, every heavenly object is really just a part and aspect of God. God contains both Good and Evil, both male and female. He ain't perfect. Currently, because God is in a state of self-exile, he's having sex with the dark handmaiden Lilith. Once the cosmic catastrophe is healed, he'll be doing it with the Shekhinah once more, the true Sabbath bride, and that usurpress will get her due. But yes, they're both just different parts of God, so call it what crude terms you will...hehe
Demons observe the Sabbath, just as all aspects of God do... they spend it praising God (although perhaps cursing his creations). Hell, even RIVERS observe the Sabbath... search for Sambation on wikipedia. One of the greatest catch-22s of all time!
****
To answer very briefly about the nature of magic:
God created the world out of the Hebrew Language itself. God = His Name. The angels = their true names = aspects and parts of God's name. You are made out of letters. All magic is essentially manipulation and artistry with permutations of letters. This art was taught by God to Abraham, see the Sefir Yetzirah. This is a form of prayer, the highest form; magic is just very effective prayer, in every sense. However, there are many ways of manipulating language: the Qumrani community used the secret nicknames of angels to summon them to their temples for prayer, the Haside used permutations of the primal letters to create golems, Abulafia and his followers meditated on the letters until they experienced ecstatic transformation into temporary messiahs.
Your questions, Catharz, were very good. All forms of magic are inherently tied to the word and language, and things do gain their power from the words themselves, but many of these words are your own understanding (many of these "words" are impossible to vocalize) and your understanding of these IS your connection to God. The memes of cleric, wizard, and sorc are all appropriate, so long as their viewed in this context, however the magic of d&d itself is really nonsensical.
And to be clear, numerology isn't really all that important, and is a relative latecomer to the scene. It helps you along your quest for knowledge, is all. By the time the Kaballah was written, most of this magic had been done for centuries.
********
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And god said "I cast magic missile at the darkness"
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Daiba
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Daiba » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:58 pm

So when's this going to be complete enough that we can play it?
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shirak
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by shirak » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:10 pm

While I'm not very interested in playing this thing, I really like it and the theory behind it. I'm a sucker for magical traditions. If you feel like starting a thread on it, i promise I'll read attentively.
Two questions:
1) Exactly what does it mean to have sinned? Do you just get forgiven? From what I remember of the Old Testament, getting forgiven was a pain in the butt. If the penalty for breaking the Law of God is to lose all your magical abilities until you do something drastic, most players will start throwing things at you for being a spoil-sport. If it is anything less (like the above system) most players will find a way around it. I suggest magic simply not working during the Shabbat or even not recharging your spells unless you spend the Shabbat praying.
2) OK, how the hell did they cross the river in the first place? And what about the guys who said "bugger this, I'm crossing and you guys can stay here for all I care"?
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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:51 pm

> TRQ at [unixtime wrote:1189492746[/unixtime]] he's having sex with the dark handmaiden Lilith.

Shit man, I want to be a Jewish god....
And if one violates these religious codes on Sabbath, do they get hit with a Call Lightning for the rest of the day? Exactly what happens to someone...
Some other ideas could be Lesser Geas, or 24 hour Curse.

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:34 am

Hm. So no one likes this thread anymore? I think it's a cool/funny subject..

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

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TRQ
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by TRQ » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:53 am

Well, I like the thread, but... uh... well... I was out celebrating Rosh Hashanah.
To answer your question Shirak (Long answer first, then short answer):
Sin in mainstream Judaism just isn't a big deal. The word "Chayt" for sin is the same term they use in archery when you miss the mark. Sin is just a booboo. After all, the entire focus of Jewish morality is making the world a better place, which is not something we can expect to succeed at all the time, and the best thing to do when you sin is fix it and do better next time. Also, Jewish law isn't about perfection... the law doesn't thing you're a meanie because you accidentally knocked over someone's vase with your wooden pole, it just states who is liable for the damage and says you're a meanie if you try to cheat justice. No need to "be forgiven" in the Christian sense; God himself ain't perfect. In a somewhat formal and legalistic way, on the holiday of Yom Kippur you do two things: 1) get forgiven all your sins from the past year, although for sins against another person you are not truly forgiven until they forgive you, and thus 2) forgive everyone else for the sins they committed against you. Can't do one without the other.
In later Jewish mysticism, there is a real cosmologically significant concept of Sin. Check out Isaac Luria on wiki if you want to learn more (not a great article) but essentially when God creates the world he has to remove himself from part of it, and this starts a cosmic catastrophe that creates evil and shatters (an aspect of) God into lots of tiny pieces. Doing good helps heal God, doing bad helps hurt him. In reality though, your specific actions visavis the cosmos are like Cure/Cause Minor Wounds on a Tarrasque, so while the ethic of helping the world and healing God is still there, your sins aren't a huge deal.
Sin in early Jewish mysticism and in the context of Rabbinic power is more of a big deal, but only in contrast to Purity. The earliest texts where magic appears, purity is a HUGE deal, not only being sinless but also going over the top by fasting for days, wearing all white, taking ritual baths, and so forth. These things are what convince/help conjure the angels to come pray with you. But they all sinned too... just they cast their spells after 3 days of doing nothing but prayer and fasting.
(Short answer) My rules for sinning went like so (in bare bones form): You're either pure or impure. If you commit a reasonably serious sin then you become impure. To become pure again, you must undergo a day of fasting and atonement (which includes a ritual bath, etc.) - but you don't get your spells back until you undergo the Shabbat rituals again. When impure, you can't cast spells, regain them on Shabbat, and your golem slowly crumbles to dust. When pure, you can fast for a day to regain an action point (which are used to fuel stronger magic). Obviously, fasting does make you physically fatigued. Observing Yom Kippur makes you pure, gives you spells back, and fills your action points.
Sigma, nothing happens to you, aside from the bad favor of the angels, when you screw up on shabbat (after all, these Rabbis were casting spells in REAL LIFE and nothing happens in real life when you sin, except you can't cast spells...). On the other hand, if you HAVE spells at all then you're an important dude, and less important dudes get pissed off at the important dudes who without spells are not able to protect their shtetl against the ettins and zombies and satyrs and other spawn of Qafqafoni and Qafsefoni (the demon lords of the middle ether, duh) that are roaming the land since the scourge of Jerusalem. Rabbis can sense your impurity and won't let you into the synagogue to pray with them, and so its hard to find a minyan.
Shirak, how did they get across the river? Who knows. How do YOU get across the river to bring the messiah back? That's trickier. For one way, I'd have to tell the story of Sabbatai Z'vi, but that's for another time.
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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:31 am

Oh OK

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:43 pm

Sigma, I think that the man in the picture is saying "Wall of Stone" in the picture. Not "Magic Missile".
As everyone can see, he has just created a Wall of Stone to manage the battlefield.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:50 pm

But Magic Missile is classic...

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

Top

Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:51 pm

Well... you'll have to use your photoshop skills to make it look like he's casting magic missile. 'Cause right now I'm not seeing it.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:35 am

What, like a "IMA CHARGIN MA LAZOR!" kinda thing?

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

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CalibronXXX
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by CalibronXXX » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:59 am

> Cielingcat at [unixtime wrote:1189472386[/unixtime]]Deadly Sins are Christian, but the Jewish god will seriously smite you if you don't observe the Sabbath.

Actually they're mentioned near the beginning of Proverbs(I think), possibly different from whatever the catholics use.
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JonSetanta
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### Re: Jewish Mysticism and Weekly Spell Quotas

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Post by JonSetanta » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:13 am

OK I'll shoop da woop it and redo the font.

> The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: ↑
> Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:25 pm
> Nobody gives a flying fuck about Tordek and Regdar.

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