# The Gaming Den

Welcome to the Gaming Den.

Skip to content

## 3.5+Complete Series Cleric Archers

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply

- Print view

13 posts • Page 1 of 1

Quantumboost
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 968
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### 3.5+Complete Series Cleric Archers

- Quote

Post by Quantumboost » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:08 pm

So, in a meatspace game (character creation this evening, at 6th level) I plan to play an elven cleric archer. Most of the information I've found on this board pertains to either a 3.0-based build or changes from immediately after 3.5 came out, and therefore doesn't completely account for Complete Divine, etc.
As far as the game goes, it's in a custom campaign setting, planes other than the Plane of Shadow are inaccessible, and books as I understand it are "core and splatbooks" (which I've been informed does not include Encyclopedia Arcane). Elf domain has been okayed in casual conversation.
So, I have a few questions regarding the build:
1) Feats. I presume that Zen Archery is too good to pass up for MAD purposes, and that I'll want Extend Spell to keep weapon buffs up all day. And of course archery feats. Is directly slapping on Persist still worth it at later levels with the +6 slots instead of +4? Does Divine Metamagic (Persist) indicate wrongly that I hate the DM and want him to suffer?
2) What sort of full-casting prestige classes are there for an cleric who likes to arrow people in the face? I'm pretty sure I won't be able to talk the DM into using Defenders of the Faith instead of Complete Divine (:tear:), I'm aware of Contemplative, Divine Disciple (sadly not as dippable if PGTF overrides FRCS), and... maybe Church Inquisitor (Contemplative and Church Inquisitor may be difficult due to the Special prerequisites).
Are there any other worthwhile options I'm missing?
3) Supposing I can pull off a PrC that gives non-preselected extra domains, what are the juicy ones?
4) Any other pitfalls to watch out for?
Last edited by Quantumboost on Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top

ubernoob
  Duke
  Posts: 2444
  Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:30 am

###

- Quote

Post by ubernoob » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:59 pm

//
Last edited by ubernoob on Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top

sake
  Knight
  Posts: 400
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by sake » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:03 pm

> ubernoob wrote:I wouldn't try for DMM:Persist at this level unless you're also packing multiple nightsticks. Instead, just take Zen archery, PBS, Rapidshot and toss down divine favor as needed. Be a cloistered cleric to trade the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion.
> I suggest not being an elf. A better race would be something like a dragonborn bouman. Y'know, anything with a wisdom bonus and no constitution penalty. If you really need bow proficiency, it's only a feat away (otherworldly) or a dip into Radiant Servant of Pelor.

But the point of being an elf and taking the elf domain so you don't have to waste your tiny handful of feats getting the bloody bow proficiency and PBS. Besides this is 3.5, where you can actually play a race that doesn't have a stat boost for your primary stat, and still not suck.
I forget, does cloistered cleric still get medium BAB? If not, then I'd avoid it, at low levels you can't expect to have attack bonus buffs up full time.
Top

RobbyPants
  King
  Posts: 5201
  Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:11 pm

###

- Quote

Post by RobbyPants » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:23 pm

> sake wrote:I forget, does cloistered cleric still get medium BAB? If not, then I'd avoid it, at low levels you can't expect to have attack bonus buffs up full time.

It gets poor base attack.
Top

Kaelik
  ArchDemon of Rage
  Posts: 14491
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Kaelik » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:46 pm

EDIT: You want to be a Cloistered Cleric anyway, because you lose one point of BAB before you PRC out, You get Divine Power, and it adds more than one to your AB and damage from the knowledge skills+Knowledge Devotion.
Contrary to uber, you want to keep Knowledge Domain, because it gives you knowledge skills as class skills, and you want that to spend the point so when you trade Oracle domain later, you are better off.
Cloistered Cleric Knowledge Domain kept, not traded.
Domains: Planning, Spell, Elf are all good. Also Time, Travel.
Try to find a stupid elf subrace with a Wisdom bonus.
Depending if you want to be DMM focused or not (Or if you are starting at an even or odd level), you either:
1) Dread Necro 1, Neutral Cloistered Cleric who channels positive energy 4/Divine Oracle a few (Trade Oracle Domain for Knowledge Devotion)/Paragnostic Apostle some (Or anything else you can get easy)/Contemplative. Feats are probably all Extra Turning after you get Persist and DMM.
Pros: Double turn attempts in general, and from each feat, way more spells Persisted then you care about. Use Spell Domain to Persist Heroics a few times for feats to Rapid Shot with archery feats, can do some stuff to give infinite healing.
Important Spells: Divine Power, Righteous Might, any way you can Polymorph into an Arrow Demon, Recitation too.
2) Cloistered Cleric keeping knowledge 4/Church Inquisitor 1/Divine Oracle 2 (Trading Oracle for Knowledge Devotion)/Mix up Church Inquisitor with Divine Oracle till you get to Contemplative, unless there are any good elf only cleric PrCs.
Domains: Elf, Spell, Knowledge (free) Later other stuff that grants feats or Travel from Contemplative.
Feats: Zen Archery, PBS (from Domain), Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion) as a prereq, either more archery feats or start going down the DMM route here.
Pros: Maintain full spellcasting. lose one point of BAB for knowledge skills that grant way more than 1 point to attack and damage, and you end up DMM Persisting Divine Power later anyway. Also free goodies from your PRCs, and being good means you get to enter earlier.
Last edited by Kaelik on Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Top

Username17
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 29894
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Username17 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:06 pm

The original Cleric Archer was based on the fact that archery bonuses were very easy to get. Stacking GMW, Blessed Aim, Recitation, Prayer, Divine Favor, it was a beautiful and stupid thing.
For 3.5 plus Completies, you seriously might be better off just going into melee. Spikes is fucking ridiculous, and stacks with most of the rest of it anyway.
-Username17
Top

Quantumboost
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 968
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Quantumboost » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:33 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:The original Cleric Archer was based on the fact that archery bonuses were very easy to get. Stacking GMW, Blessed Aim, Recitation, Prayer, Divine Favor, it was a beautiful and stupid thing.
> For 3.5 plus Completies, you seriously might be better off just going into melee. Spikes is fucking ridiculous, and stacks with most of the rest of it anyway.
> -Username17

Really? Damn. I'm partly into the idea for the lulz to be had, though I may have to consider going beatstick cleric or bearcaster depending on how inferior the archering is. <_<
Top

Lago PARANOIA
  Invincible Overlord
  Posts: 10555
  Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am

###

- Quote

Post by Lago PARANOIA » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:09 pm

Spikes got stealth-nerfed, along with a bunch of cleric staples, in the Spell Compendium. Spikes really isn't worth your time TBH.
Cleric archers honestly aren't all that much better than rogue-archers or even 3.5E fighter-archers unless you routinely do short workdays until around level 8 or so anyway.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

Top

Kaelik
  ArchDemon of Rage
  Posts: 14491
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Kaelik » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:22 pm

> Lago PARANOIA wrote:Spikes got stealth-nerfed, along with a bunch of cleric staples, in the Spell Compendium. Spikes really isn't worth your time TBH.
> Cleric archers honestly aren't all that much better than rogue-archers or even 3.5E fighter-archers unless you routinely do short workdays until around level 8 or so anyway.

Well yeah, you are only as good as a Rogue or Fighter but can also cast spells if you need to. And you get to be better than them both forever at level 8. It's still worth it.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Top

Username17
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 29894
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Username17 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:19 am

I thought we were talking completes only with no Spell Compendium. That means that all the stealth nerfs get to be ignored, right?
-Username17
Top

Xur
  Apprentice
  Posts: 87
  Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:15 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Xur » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:29 am

Damn it, I was relly hoping someone would come up with a cool 3.5 version of the Cleric Archer. Seems without DoF there is no real point in going this way?

> FrankTrollman wrote:I thought we were talking completes only with no Spell Compendium. That means that all the stealth nerfs get to be ignored, right?
> -Username17

Are there no good options for Cleric Archers in other supplements than the Completes?
Top

RobbyPants
  King
  Posts: 5201
  Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:11 pm

###

- Quote

Post by RobbyPants » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:49 pm

> Xur wrote:Are there no good options for Cleric Archers in other supplements than the Completes?

Nightsticks from Libris Mortis, if you're using DMM, although this applies to clerics in general, and not just cleric archers.
Do you know what the rest of the party is playing? How good are these guys at optimizing? If the DM says "Core and Completes only", and all of the players say stuff like "Monk" or "Fighter", then you really don't have to shoot too high.
Top

Quantumboost
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 968
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Quantumboost » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:00 pm

One of the players is playing straight Barbarian, one's playing an "entrepreneur" (rogue) who sounds like he'll avoid getting into combat too much (picked the class for the skillpoints). The remaining player is playing a crazy summoner wizard with stuff to pump summons (Augment Summoning and apparently other things along that line). I've heard indications that there will be an NPC tagalong of yet-indeterminate nature.
Decided to just go with a Trickery/Magic Cleric (of mischief aka Giant Frog aka "trolling" D:) and rely primarily on the buffing for melee/ranged. And carry around a wand of some incapacitation spell for giving sneak attack bennies to the rogue.
Top
Post Reply

- Print view

Display:
Sort by:
Direction:

13 posts • Page 1 of 1

Return to “In My Humble Opinion...”

Jump to

- Main
- ↳ About the Gaming Den
- ↳ In My Humble Opinion...
- ↳ I Gave the Mouse a Cookie...
- ↳ In The Trenches
- ↳ It's My Own Invention...
- ↳ MPSIMS