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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:37 pm

> Occluded Sun wrote:That list, from Slate, is roughly half-and-half between events that seem to be instigated by protesters and against protesters.

Let's go through them:
Oct 14 2015: Pro-Trump violence.
Oct 23 2015: Pro-Trump violence.
Nov 21 2015: Pro-Trump violence.
Dec 3 2015: Pro-Trump violence.
Dec 11 2015: Forcibly removing protesters probably should not count as Pro-Trump violence.
Dec 14 2015: Let's be generous and not count calls for violence as violence themself.
Feb 29 2016: This is an altercation between Time Magazine and the Secret Service. I don't know how to score that one, so I won't.
March 1 2016: Pro-Trump violence.
March 8 2016: Pro-Trump violence. It's Trump's campaign manager getting rough with a Breitbart reporter. This an example of violence with no protesters involved whatsoever. There is literally no one to blame this on, and it's a member of Trump's staff.
March 9 2016: Pro-Trump violence.
March 19 2016: Pro-Trump violence.
March 19 2016: Pro-Trump violence.
April 11 2016: Pro-Trump violence.
April 23 2016: Another example of protesters being forcibly removed. I won't count it.
April 26 2016: Clashing protests; unclear who to blame for escalation.
April 28 2016: Anti-Trump violence.
May 28 2016: Pro-Trump violence.
June 2 2016: Anti-Trump violence.
June 16 2016: Unclear who the attack came from.
June 18 2016: Anti-Trump violence.
It's 11 to 3. So, yeah, sure, roughly half-and-half.
Also, I like how we've gone from "virtually all" to "half-and-half" (half-and-half which is actually 11-and-3, but really who's counting).
Last edited by DSMatticus on Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MGuy
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Post by MGuy » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:31 am

I have a guy on my facebook who believes that Trump is at least a good candidate because Hillary apparently wants to go to war with Russia (what?). The time where facts seem to matter has gone and been replaced by a need for people to see both candidates as just as bad as each other, or worse, that Trump is better because he's ' just' an idiot who can't do real harm (and his past doesn't matter). I don't know if I can really be shocked that people are finding it hard to really understand how bad a candidate Trump really is.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.

> MGuy wrote:Finally a thread about fighters!

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:44 am

> MGuy wrote:I have a guy on my facebook who believes that Trump is at least a good candidate because Hillary apparently wants to go to war with Russia (what?). The time where facts seem to matter has gone and been replaced by a need for people to see both candidates as just as bad as each other, or worse, that Trump is better because he's ' just' an idiot who can't do real harm (and his past doesn't matter). I don't know if I can really be shocked that people are finding it hard to really understand how bad a candidate Trump really is.

Yeah there have been a bunch of weird "Hillary wants to go to war with Russia" videos popping up on semi-famous youtube channels over the last week. The ones I've seen all follow the classic conservative method of beginning with a 14 minute intro of a racist/sexist/homophobic and transphobic person demonstrating that they are those things, and calling Clinton/democrats autistic and/or retarded for 14 minutes before actually presenting whatever mediocre evidence they have, so I assume they are relying on the same dumb "Clinton said military force threats need to be on the table against hackers" line and general aspersion that Clinton is pretty hawkish, both which are technically true, but are not even remotely a solid foundation to support the claims they make.
But fuck me if I'm going to watch an hour of conservative whining to verify that. Seriously, is there a program that you can put in a youtube video and get out a transcript that you can search?

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:53 am

> sendaz wrote:So what drinks would Sanders, Johnson and Stein be?

Sanders is a 70-year old single malt scotch....no matter how much I may want some, that only happens in fantasy land....
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Ancient History
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Post by Ancient History » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:59 am

Jill Stein is babycham.
Gary Johnson is a Budweiser labeled as a craft beer.
Deep Cuts In A Lovecraftian Vein
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:37 am

> Josh_Kablack wrote:Apparently it's been done elsewhere on the internat, but a discussion with a couple of my drinking buddies just decided that the way to represent the candidates as cocktails would be as follows:
> A Trump would be a Manhattan where you substituted Goldschlager for the bourbon and then set it on fire before serving. This reflects Trump's geograpic business roots, his gold obsession, his flakiness and the current state of his campaign.
> A Hillary would be a frozen Daiquiri where you swapped out the traditional rum in favor of Banker's Club™ Brandy. This reflects Hillary's reputations for being ice-cold, seeming to be something she's not and her speeches to big banks.

I was thinking about this myself last week, here's what I came up with-
The Donald: a sour orange frozen cocktail made with the cheapest, roughest moonshine you can find. It's an orange turd that will shrivel your tongue and knock your tonsils down your throat.
The Hillary: a Bloody Mary made with top shelf vodka and habanero hot sauce. Standard but expensive, a bit boring, not everyone's thing, and a little more aggressive than you'd expect or like.
The Johnson: you pay five bucks and the bartender punches you in the face, then serves you a shot glass full of the drippings from the bar mat.
The Johnson Elite: you slip the bartender $100 and he looks the other way while you make your own drink from the top shelf.
The Stein: you're asked whether you think Stein is a panderer or a crackpot. The former gets you a virgin screwdriver served in a dinner plate- shallow with no backbone. The latter gets you a screwdriver made with moonshine and organic gmo-free orange juice in the biggest beer stein the bartender can find. Fucking crazy and lots it.
The Cruz: an orange margarita made with Molson. Looks Latin American, but really more Canadian and American.
The Carson: Pyramid brewing co. Hefeweizen with a codeine sidecar.
The Bernie: just a Romulan Ale. This is a real thing, and it's blue, pretty affordable, and pretty good, I hear.
I ran out of memory of who all was in the early primaries about then.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:39 am

> Kaelik wrote:But fuck me if I'm going to watch an hour of conservative whining to verify that. Seriously, is there a program that you can put in a youtube video and get out a transcript that you can search?

Why yes, I happen to have one right here. Let's point it at the stupid parts of YouTube and see what happens:
"I hate Hillary Clinton for entirely unrelated reasons and either don't know or don't care about any of Russia's egregious examples of belligerence, therefore criticizing Putin for the things he does is a dangerous escalation in a way Putin doing those things to begin with wasn't. If this situation were reversed and Russia were pumping anti-Trump infodumps through WikiLeaks I would be demanding either WW3 or the complete and total international isolation of Russia, including cutting their intertubes, depending on whether I am a radical idiot or a "reasonable" moderate, but you'll never get me to admit that or even talk about it because I won't be baited into confronting my own hypocrisy under any circumstances."
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:55 pm

The argument I've seen for Clinton getting us into a war with Russia is that she wants a no-fly zone in Syria, which could theoretically lead to the US shooting down a Russian plane, which could theoretically embroil us in the THIRD WORLD WAR.
Last edited by momothefiddler on Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:22 pm

> momothefiddler wrote:The argument I've seen for Clinton getting us into a war with Russia is that she wants a no-fly zone in Syria, which could theoretically lead to the US shooting down a Russian plane, which could theoretically embroil us in the THIRD WORLD WAR.

Little Late For That....
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:42 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:

> > momothefiddler wrote:The argument I've seen for Clinton getting us into a war with Russia is that she wants a no-fly zone in Syria, which could theoretically lead to the US shooting down a Russian plane, which could theoretically embroil us in the THIRD WORLD WAR.

> Little Late For That....
> -Username17

And Russia's response has apparently been

> That Article wrote:A decree signed by President Putin on 28 November calls for the banning or limitation of imports from Turkey, the work of Turkish companies in Russia and any Turkish nationals working for Russian companies. The government is drawing up a list of the sectors affected.

Still, I'm sure those folks would have some argument about how that was Turkey and this is the US or something (Ignoring NATO's explicit support for Turkey here). I dunno. It's already obviously a stretch.
EDIT: And of course that probability is still lower than the probability that Trump will start WW3 by launching missiles nuclear ICBMs at France because some French-American comedian made a crack about the length of his fingers or whatever.
Last edited by momothefiddler on Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Starmaker
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Post by Starmaker » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:02 pm

> momothefiddler wrote:And Russia's response has apparently been

> > That Article wrote:A decree signed by President Putin on 28 November calls for the banning or limitation of imports from Turkey, the work of Turkish companies in Russia and any Turkish nationals working for Russian companies. The government is drawing up a list of the sectors affected.

And it has been lifted. But it was sure fun working for an oh-so-secretly Turkish travel company in the meantime when patriotic customers were alternately begging and threatening us into selling them a tour on the sly.
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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:11 pm

So what happens to your life if Trump wins
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RobbyPants
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Post by RobbyPants » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:29 pm

> OgreBattle wrote:So what happens to your life if Trump wins

My wife makes me move to Canada.
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SlyJohnny
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Post by SlyJohnny » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:40 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:The degree you'd have to have your head in the sand or up your ass to sincerely believe that the violence is not coming from the Trumpists, or that the latest faked O'Keefe video exonerates the movement somehow is significant and disturbing.

Poison the well regarding the latest O'Keefe video all you want, the fact remains he obtained recordings where liberal activists admitted to deliberately causing violence or engineering violent scenarios at Trump rallies, and then deflecting the blame onto both Trump supporters AND pro-Sanders demonstrators. His clumsy, failed attempt to link this back to Clinton (at least in terms of proving she personally signed off on it) nonwithstanding, these guys got fired in light of this evidence, but aren't facing criminal charges, and the lack of coverage surrounding this is horrifying.
Last edited by SlyJohnny on Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:47 pm

> OgreBattle wrote:So what happens to your life if Trump wins

I mean I'm not sure but the most likely scenario seems to be my health insurance goes away, I can't pay for my meds, and I kill myself.
It could go better than that, depending on how my individual state handles insurance things, or it could go worse (I could straight up get murdered for being trans or a jew or something) but that seems like the primary path here.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:53 pm

> momothefiddler wrote:And Russia's response has apparently been

> > That Article wrote:A decree signed by President Putin on 28 November calls for the banning or limitation of imports from Turkey, the work of Turkish companies in Russia and any Turkish nationals working for Russian companies. The government is drawing up a list of the sectors affected.

Ignoring for a moment how that was already ended, do you not see how "economic sanctions from one country with no enforcement from any other country" is different from WORLD WAR III!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:15 pm

> SlyJohnny wrote:Poison the well regarding the latest O'Keefe video all you want, the fact remains he obtained recordings where liberal activists admitted to deliberately causing violence or engineering violent scenarios at Trump rallies, and then deflecting the blame onto both Trump supporters AND pro-Sanders demonstrators. His clumsy, failed attempt to link this back to Clinton (at least in terms of proving she personally signed off on it) nonwithstanding, these guys got fired in light of this evidence, but aren't facing criminal charges, and the lack of coverage surrounding this is horrifying.

Look, do you remember the planned parenthood videos that totally proved they were selling fetuses? You can make a lot of shit out of walking into a room, deliberately structuring the conversation towards specific comments, then editing it to set your point.
Now, here's the thing, what you actually just said above is wrong.
Firstly, there was one guy fired. Secondly, he was not fired for admitting to inciting violence. Or at least not legally inciting, since the description of how he incites the violence is literally "ask to enter the rally wearing a planned parenthood shirt" Now, maybe, in context, he didn't even ever say he actually did any of that, because again, selective editing, the only thing we have is him saying "these people will totally go bonkers over anything" and "there's a script" (Which to be clear, is part of a completely different jump cut, so could be about literally anything) and not "we do this" but hey maybe he did. Still, he got one guy fired for something he might have done, but honestly, probably didn't.
But everything you said about "deliberately causing violence" and then blaming trump supporters is nonsense. Of course he set it up so Trump supporters are blamed (if he ever did it at all) THEY ARE THE ONES AT FAULT. When someone talks to you, and then you punch them, the violence is totally your fault not theirs.
The second guy who TOTALLY GOT FIRED FOR ADMITTING TO INCITING VIOLENCE! is the guy who is caught on tape making the oh so scandalous admission that he organizes demonstrations where Trump and Pence go.
OH MY GOD HE'S BASICALLY HITLER! HE ORGANIZED EVENTS! QUICK ARREST HIM!
So yeah, one guy was fired for saying some dumb stuff that is definitely taken out of context, and might not even have been an admission of actually doing anything, his boss fired him and then resigned, presumably because he just didn't want to deal with this shit, since again, his scandalous admission was that he organized events, and neither of these people has had criminal charges brought, for the very obvious reason that even if we believed every bit of deceptive editing performed, still, the one guy who got fired said "You can walk up to Trump supporters and tell them Trump is a Nazi, and they punch you." Which, even if he totally did exactly that, is still not a criminal offense.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:53 pm

> Kaelik wrote:

> > momothefiddler wrote:And Russia's response has apparently been

> > > That Article wrote:A decree signed by President Putin on 28 November calls for the banning or limitation of imports from Turkey, the work of Turkish companies in Russia and any Turkish nationals working for Russian companies. The government is drawing up a list of the sectors affected.

> Ignoring for a moment how that was already ended, do you not see how "economic sanctions from one country with no enforcement from any other country" is different from WORLD WAR III!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait, do you think I'm arguing with you or something? I was literally pointing out that it wasn't WWIII, thus my continuation that some people would argue the distinction doesn't matter because it was Turkey or something.
I'm literally agreeing with you that Clinton won't start WWIII or anything, just noting the only argument I'd heard for it that hadn't been brought up yet, and I guess failing to imply that it's also not worth shit.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:25 pm

> SlyJohnny wrote:Poison the well regarding the latest O'Keefe video all you want,

Do you have some more credibility you want to set on fire? Are you seriously defending O'Keefe?
O'Keefe poisoned his own well. With his faked ACORN video, and his faked Shirley Sherrod video. And his, literally everything he's ever done. As it happens, in his latest bit of obvious fraud, he is refusing to release the unedited footage. Because like everything he has ever done it is faked video backing up slander.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. What the fucking hell do we call it when O'Keefe has been producing nothing but fake videos to slander good people for seven fucking years and dumb assholes like you are still taking his videos at face value? Shame on your mother for not giving you a proper schooling? Shame on your family doctor for not referring you to neurosurgery? What the actual fuck?
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Occluded Sun
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Post by Occluded Sun » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:54 pm

> OgreBattle wrote:So what happens to your life if Trump wins

Nothing immediate, and nothing predictable, beyond my spending a few hours laughing at the many fools who said they were going to move to Canada.
Any detriments and benefits are sufficiently far into the future, and contingent on too many variables, to predict accurately. I have no idea how many of Trump's proposed actions he can carry out, or will even attempt, so whether I think they're good or bad isn't going to be useful.
One clear benefit, though, would be the shattering of many of the barriers to open discussion of certain topics, as well as a break in the political hegemony we're currently experiencing. Much of American politics is monopolized by a closed political class, and any outsider achieving major success is a step in the right direction. It almost doesn't matter who.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:19 pm

My life becomes a lot more interesting, though not in a good way.
Trump seems to believe the Presidency is a dictatorship and would presumably attempt to indulge in whichever whims crossed his mind until people pushed back. Given his proclivities for petty vindictiveness, he'd probably start by abusing the people who have pissed him off most and most recently: Clinton, various reporters, etc. This would precipitate a constitutional crisis. I don't think the Republicans in Congress could get their act together to impeach him. That basically leaves Trump rolling around with a gang of whoever will accept his illegal orders, intent on carrying out personal grudges. How that ends is anyone's guess.
Fortunately, I'm enough out of the way that I think I'll only see the events on TV.
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Grek
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Post by Grek » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:26 pm

> OgreBattle wrote:So what happens to your life if Trump wins

I stop being allowed to use public restrooms. There's a local boom, followed by a crash, in the construction industry. Other than that, nothing particularly changes for me personally.

> FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.

> Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.

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Voss
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Post by Voss » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:39 pm

> Occluded Sun wrote: One clear benefit, though, would be the shattering of many of the barriers to open discussion of certain topics, as well as a break in the political hegemony we're currently experiencing. Much of American politics is monopolized by a closed political class, and any outsider achieving major success is a step in the right direction. It almost doesn't matter who.

Gods, but you're a moron. Trump is not a political outsider. He's been sniffing around the presidential campaigns since the late 80s, but was able to be talked into not running then, on the grounds that he'd fail and look like a clown doing so. That has sadly changed since..
Because since then, he's been a major donor and self-described 'kingmaker,' backing anyone from Romney to Hillary herself in turns. He hasn't held office, but he's had firm identity as part of the 'political class' for two decades now.
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Occluded Sun
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Post by Occluded Sun » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:47 pm

It's striking how high the correspondence is between insulting me and failing to understand my posts is.
Trump got so much attention in the primaries, and ultimately emerged as the candidate, despite being utterly despised by the elites of the party he's nominally running under. And he did this by exploiting issues that have a great deal of popular concern but were by 'gentlemen's agreement' rendered unmentionable by anyone in the political class. Pretty much all the politicians hate him.
I can't even imagine what you think would be necessary to fall under the vague category of 'outsider', but it's remarkable you don't think Trump qualifies.
"Most men are of no more use in their lives but as machines for turning food into excrement." - Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:54 pm

> Occluded Sun wrote:And he did this by exploiting issues that have a great deal of popular concern but were by 'gentlemen's agreement' rendered unmentionable by anyone in the political class.

Trust us, absolutely no one here is unaware that you support Trump because he hates brown people and you hate brown people too. We all remember more freedom during slavery.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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