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## League Of Losers

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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:04 pm

I knew all those Shen bans in competitive play were for a reason. I really can't think of a better splitpusher, for that matter.
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:06 pm

Shen isn't an incredible split pusher, he kind of sucks at taking turrets (at least Ki Strike hits them) and lacks waveclear (which is why you want sunfire cape), but he can teleport to people. If Shen's ult wasn't what it is he'd be useless because his dueling kit would have no meaning.
Taunt is super strong in lane; they can't farm at melee range without taking aggro and losing a bunch of health.
Edit for split push: Tryndamere is probably the best split pusher right now, but it's the only thing he's even remotely good except for duo baron attempts.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:26 am

Huh, I thought he had better waveclear than that, and in any case you're probably not going to be doing any real split-pushing pre-sunfire. I never see him, but that's a consequence of my horrible ELO.
I just picked up Kassadin in the most recent sale and while I haven't really come to grips with him yet, I really like him so far. I'm having trouble CSing under tower and waveclearing pre-6, but the absurd mobility and burst is definitely worth the tradeoff.
Also, saintvicious just pulled out Amumu in the most recent LCS game, which they ended up winning thanks to a bad engage by CST and a beautiful teleport backdoor by Voyboy. While I wasn't able to watch most of the game, it seemed like that pick worked really well as part of an overall AoE comp.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:47 am

> Korgan0 wrote:I really like him so far. I'm having trouble CSing under tower and waveclearing pre-6,

You and the LCS Kasses too.
That is just one of the problems with Kass, basically, get him with a jungle that will fucking camp mid till 6 so you never have to cs under tower.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:14 am

Ironically enough, he has a very similiar early build path to Ryze (rush tear then RoA), so I can see myself getting confused and picking up a Frozen Heart by mistake, especially if I were playing drunk or something.
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AndreiChekov
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  Location: an AA meeting. Or Caemlyn.

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Post by AndreiChekov » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:56 am

> Korgan0 wrote:Ironically enough, he has a very similiar early build path to Ryze (rush tear then RoA), so I can see myself getting confused and picking up a Frozen Heart by mistake, especially if I were playing drunk or something.

That would be terrible.
I have a drunk account just so I don't ruin my ranking. (which is shit anyway, so I don't know why I care)
Peace favour your sword.
I only play 3.x
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:47 pm

> AndreiChekov wrote: I have a drunk account just so I don't ruin my ranking. (which is shit anyway, so I don't know why I care)

I try and just play normals when drunk, but the few times I've played ranked drunk I've done incredible things. Went from ~70 LP in Plat I to ~50 LP in Plat II in one night. So yeah, now I just pick weird champions in normals when drunk (or ridiculous pub stompers). You can also have fun drinking games based on the lane. I went fiddle top against Garen and took a shot every time he silenced me (I think I had to take 3 shots). It uh...encouraged safe play.
Shen's waveclear: Everything he does is single target, so his pre-sunfire clear is very sad. Pushing a lane after you get a kill pre-sunfire is like pulling teeth, they'll usually get back to lane right as I get the wave to their turret.
The thing I've been having trouble with as Shen lately is my team not capitalizing on my ult and/or wasting it. Shen can't just save really bad lanes because he only affects it once every 3 minutes, and if all you do is prevent a single death you throw away your lane turret for nothing (and your team will get mad at you if you DON'T ult in to prevent a 300 gold pickup in exchange for the 750 gold turret).
I've had lanes where I ult in, and then they immediately fucking back because they're low instead of pushing the turret or taking dragon with our 3v2. Nobody is going to contest dragon against a full team when Shen is standing around because he'll flash taunt for a free kill.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:49 pm

Since it's basically a DC universe clone of LoL, is anyone here playing Infinite Crisis?
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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Anyone here tried out Lucian? I've played a couple of games with him in them, and so far he seems to be pretty solid: no real falloff points, strong laning, good teamfigbt prssence, and very safe with a resetting dash.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:45 pm

He seems to suck all the dick. I haven't played him, but I have played against him. He has no poke in lane if you aren't retarded, he has no damage late game without his ult, and it is hella easy to avoid his ult.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Ravengm
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Post by Ravengm » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:35 pm

He has insane burst for all-in trades, though.

> Random thing I saw on Facebook wrote:Just make sure to compare your results from Weapon Bracket Table and Elevator Load Composition (Dragon Magazine #12) to the Perfunctory Armor Glossary, Version 3.8 (Races of Minneapolis, pp. 183). Then use your result as input to the "DM Says Screw You" equation.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:20 pm

> Ravengm wrote:He has insane burst for all-in trades, though.

Oh sorry, I play Vayne or Thresh/Lulu bot. I have never seen a Lucian survive an all in.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Top

...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:22 am

pre-6 he seems to outdo vayne. Right now we're seeing the huge group oh bad lucians who got him because fanboyism. People are going to start being decent with him soon.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:41 am

> ...You Lost Me wrote:pre-6 he seems to outdo vayne. Right now we're seeing the huge group oh bad lucians who got him because fanboyism. People are going to start being decent with him soon.

Pre 6 he can't out-do vayne either, especially because all it takes is not being retarded, and he'd have to do it under a turret. I mean yeah, if Vayne over extends pre 6 she could die, but it's vayne, if vayne over extends against anyone pre 6 she's dead, which is why you just don't do that.
Last edited by Kaelik on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Top

Damocles
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Post by Damocles » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:12 pm

Bottom lane is all about combo vs combo, and how you play it. Lucian doesnt auto counter Vayne and Vayne doesnt auto-counter Lucian.
If it were a matter of 1v1 however, Vayne would almost always win.
It takes a wise man to discover a wise man - Diogenes
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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:40 pm

I'm pretty sure Lucian can out-waveclear Vayne no matter what level they're at, even though Vayne's abilities do pretty much hard-counter Lucian's.
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:51 pm

I've played some games with/against Lucian. Can't tell for sure if he's good or bad yet, but here's what I've noticed:
1. Three of his skills exist to make him a pain to lock down, but his range (same as Vayne's) is shitty enough that he is putting himself in danger unless he's ulting. Basically, he's an AD who doesn't give a shit about divers who lack hard CC. He offers 0 control in fights, but he's hard to stick to for any amount of time if he isn't stunned/rooted. That's very useful because...
2. Most ADCs are pretty easy to catch/kill once slowed, Lucien isn't, and he does his damage WHILE running (most ADs deal less damage while running because you only turn to attack when you won't get hurt for it). He can cast his movespeed booster, ult, dash (clears slows) and run away with his wacky speed while doing damage. Oh, and since he should rush BotRK he can active as well. Dude has 4 mobility skills once he has that item. Lucien doesn't give a shit about slows, and there are a LOT of slows in this game and they fuck over other ADs. That's great and all, but he has some serious weaknesses...
3. Lucien's got crappy range and subpar scaling (for the late game) compared to other ADs. His power spikes at BotRK, but after that and a last whisper he's not doing anything that crazy (and his ult doesn't do on-hit, though it's an incredibly strong ability on its own). Close range ADs (Vayne, Graves, Sivir, Draven) need to do a fuckton of damage or have a gimmick (Sivir buffs the entire team and has a spell shield, Graves has burst, Draven used to be good in lane, Vayne nukes tanks) because they're so unsafe. Lucien mitigates some of the safety issues by being so slippery, but his scaling is just not that great for his low range (except his ult, which has ridiculous range).
4. He's useless when it comes to sieging/defending turrets (outside his ult, which is a FUCKING GREAT ABILITY), which is a big deal if the enemy team has any form of poke or initiate. The only AD who might be as bad as Lucien at sieges is Vayne, and she is a beastly split pusher who can 1v1 anyone if she doesn't get surprised.
So yeah, Lucien could be fine in a really bruiser-y team where nobody needs to babysit him or a mid-game based team that wants to win around 30 minutes. Other than that he's not great at melting tanks and is dead the moment he gets rooted/stunned while in range to shoot people.
He's also pretty good in a "hit R to win" composition because he can hit R very, very hard (note: hit R to win comps are mostly midgame comps as well).
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Damocles
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Post by Damocles » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:18 pm

Honestly if lizard spirit and tear didnt get nerfed so hard he'd be a decent blue-build duelist thanks to his passive. Getting to apply Botrk / Muramana and lizard twice in a row aint bad.
Edit: Though the stength of bluebuild is for poke and zoning im pretty sure, and this guy would suck at that.
Last edited by Damocles on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It takes a wise man to discover a wise man - Diogenes
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Pseudo Stupidity
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:07 pm

I just realized I spelled Lucas' name differently in the same damn post. Oh well, we're past that.
Applying Lizard twice in a row does nothing because it's a DoT, unfortunately. Though I could see Lucian with a Hurricane being hilarious if his passive works on the second hit as well (build would need to be something like BotRK, Hurricane, Cleaver, Last Whisper, CDR boots and a tank item to finish it). Applying 2 stacks of cleaver + 2 procs of BotRK to 3 people every attack while being slippery would be fun.

> sandmann wrote:

> > Zak S wrote:I'm not a dick, I'm really nice.

> > Zak S wrote:(...) once you have decided that you will spend any part of your life trolling on the internet, you forfeit all rights as a human.If you should get hit by a car--no-one should help you. If you vote on anything--your vote should be thrown away.
> > If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.

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Damocles
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Post by Damocles » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:03 pm

Applying Lizard twice works sort of like teemo's e, no? the champs that always utilized lizard well never let the DoT drop off of you, Hecarim, Evelynn, etc. Stacking that dot isnt a bad thing.
I suppose that the quick speed at which lucian would reapply it would be less effective than the time interval between Hec's and Eve's Q's.
Last edited by Damocles on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It takes a wise man to discover a wise man - Diogenes
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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:35 pm

I think AP Lucian with maximum attack speed might actually have the highest damage ability in the game- I've seen youtube videos that seriously have over 10k damage over the course of the ult.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:28 pm

That was in PBE. Lucian's abilities now scale better with AD than AP.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure Lucian with ult can beat out a vayne in lane. All his abilities have incredible range, and you can use them to punish her for cs'ing, seek her out in the brush, and poke her before she can close on you.
Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Korgan0
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Post by Korgan0 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:29 pm

The idea behind Vayne beating Lucian in lane is that she can dodge his Q with her Q trivially easily, and if he tries to all-in at 6 she can do the same thing and evade his ult totally with her invisibility.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:56 pm

> Korgan0 wrote:The idea behind Vayne beating Lucian in lane is that she can dodge his Q with her Q trivially easily, and if he tries to all-in at 6 she can do the same thing and evade his ult totally with her invisibility.

And his cross attack does almost no damage, and his dash is just a double proc basic attack, which is fine since two of his attacks do approximately the same damage as one of vaynes after a q, if not less.
I just don't see how you could possibly all in a vayne unless she was really careless and let herself get blitz/thresh hooked, or poked really low by a sona, and that is just bad play that would kill anyone playing any champ.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:37 pm

Okay, can we scrape together that TGD team now?
I have been placed in Bronze 2, which is depressing, but it would be even more or less depressing if I hadn't played top two games out of 10. Because top pref is apparently fucking impossible to actually play ever.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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