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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:37 am

I remember trying to play CP2020 several times with friends in High School and not even being able to figure out character creation. Of course this is because we treat gaming books as reference material rather than a text to read cover to cover, but we seriously could not find any reference to how skills were figured for a starting character.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Longes
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Post by Longes » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:23 pm

Oh, that's actually easy and is explained at the start of the Skills chapter. You get 40 points for your career skills and Intelligence + Reflexes for your non-career skills.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:40 pm

Huh. Somehow I always missed that.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Eikre
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Post by Eikre » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:30 pm

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I seem to remember asking this and being told it's a bad idea but I forget why. Is there a downside to simply giving all non 1/2 level BaB classes improved unarmed strike?

Nobody is ever going to care. It's not gonna do anything bad to your game but nobody is ever going to care and now your house rules are just that littlest bit more obnoxious on average.
This is a compounding problem. Obviously everybody wants to fix the shit out of this game, and most people even think they can, but the urge can't ever amount to anything more than egoism unless they can become the issuing authority (as per Pathfinder), write a new game from scratch and incorporate their pet issues in the initial calibration (as per a heartbreaker), or just stop wasting their time with the quibbling horseshit and only open their mouths to address concise but sweeping changes. It's why JaronK's pithy, incomplete Tier taxonomy is hyper-popular and the guy who wrote 20-page "Ultimate" versions of all the base classes isn't even a fuckstain in the WotC forum archives.
But anyway. If you really want an analysis on it, then I'll point out that the only people who stand to gain anything from empty hand techniques are the people who are already incidentally capable of showing up naked and fucking new holes into people's skulls regardless. I'm talking polymorph, here. There are zero circumstances under which the Barbarian is going to be happy using this feat, but a Druid can use it to suddenly pick up a whole extra iterative set with unarmed strikes (enhanced with the same ability bonuses and Magic Fang that he'd be getting anyway) and still get to keep lots of natural weapons as secondary attacks. Furthermore, he can pick up Improved Grapple with only one feat in the hole, and while that might not be the best among solid options, it's still a really obvious one. So the rule we're talking about, here, stands to affect every druid on the continuum of player skill... but it's gonna boost the results for people at the center of the bell curve the most.
That second bit isn't a downside per se. It's actually much better game design when the system's outcomes are coherent with player expectations. But there are going to be people who, prior to a change like this one, were merely performing adequately, and then after the modification, they're channeled into a better decision, so they accidentally start outshining their peers, and they think you broke something, so they hate you. That's basically the story with the summoner class in Pathfinder.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:39 pm

Thinking about it some more, it also gives me the mental image of every wizard taking up bare knuckle boxing as a hobby, possibly because mage colleges/guilds/etc are seriously that competitive.
Anytime a gathering of wizards to discuss something breaks out into a brawl worthy of British parliament, I would consider it a good thing. Especially since their low hp mean they knock each other out comparatively easily.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Eikre
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Post by Eikre » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:42 pm

They're already proficient with knives and they can already trade punches 1:1 since every attack of opportunity would itself produce an attack of opportunity. Universal imp. unarmed strike would have zero social ramifications, outside of making folks moderately more resilient to the machinations of an errant housecat.
This signature is here just so you don't otherwise mistake the last sentence of my post for one.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:39 am

Yeah, "no one would give a fuck" is a reasonable enough reason to not make a house rule.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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AcidBlades
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Post by AcidBlades » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:36 pm

So I'm playing a game, and I retired an old character that I got bored of. Now I'm looking into psionics. What sort of shit should I look for, because various sources on the internet aren't particularly convenient to wade through because the psionic guides seem oddly averse to going through a power level by power level analysis.
Or should I just stick with prepared casting? I always get bored of classes with gimmicks like the alchemist where actual options (IE spells) are lost in favor of them.
Also I'm at level 7
Last edited by AcidBlades on Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:06 pm

Depends on what game you're playing. In both Pathfinder and 3.5 psionics can do a lot in a short period of time, but even by 5 minute workday standards they're not good for very long. I offended one of the other players in my previous Pathfinder group by calling them the premature ejaculators of the Pathfinder world. But him being offended doesn't make it less true.
Psionics has some of the best self-buffs in the game, so keep that in mind. If your buffs are long term then going psionic nova isn't such a loss. There's overchannel which will cost you HP to be able to push your powers up a bit. If you are using that to deal damage you're a moron but it can be useful to push buffs up (For example, it will add hours to Claws of the Beast and possibly increase the damage for that duration, that's worth eating a small amount of damage a couple taps with a CLW wand will fix).
Although people more talented in min-maxing can definitely give better advice, I do know I had a lot of fun briefly playing a Tactician whose schtick was taking those awesome self-only buffs then turning them into network buffs and giving them to my allies. I enjoy playing support roles a lot, you may not so YMMV with that. Vitalist is a halfway decent healer. Cryptic is kind of a clunky warlock, dread is just strange, psions are 9 level casters with all that entails, psychic warriors run out of PP too quickly, and while Pathfinder soulknives are better in every way to 3.5 soulknives they are still melee beatsticks, Aegii are a bit better melee beatsticks with some more interesting combos (think Synth Summoner made into a base class), but they are not great.
Keep in mind at level 7 you might get some mileage out of Aegis and Soulknife because you're still at the levels where warrior types aren't totally lost. That won't last much longer though.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Eikre
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Post by Eikre » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:15 pm

I can talk off the cuff about literally everything in the the entire corpus of 3.5 psionics but I'm not gonna start typing that shit up if I don't know you're not playing pathfinder. Since you addressed the existence of alchemists as though they were a thing, I'm gonna assume that's the case, but maybe you wanna correct me.
This signature is here just so you don't otherwise mistake the last sentence of my post for one.
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AcidBlades
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Post by AcidBlades » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:41 am

Yeah, my game is a Pathfinder one, been in it for about 3 months now. It's a tad bit late for me, as I just went with an admixture blast wizard with the two metamagic traits to get me some sickened empowered fireballs until I can reliably used the dazed version of it instead.
Ah well. I shall keep all of that in mind. Though you can go off about 3.5 psionics too.
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Foxwarrior
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Post by Foxwarrior » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:05 am

Look at Warrior Wilder and Psychic Reformation.
www.gempunks.com
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Shady314
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Post by Shady314 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:19 am

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:soulknives ... are still melee beatsticks,

There are archetypes to fix that.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:09 am

Not sold on the soulbolt, although from a thematic perspective the Aegis/Soulbolt/Metaforge is pretty awesome, you're basically Iron Man.
I am positive that there's a version that gets manifesting and another that gets initiator levels but I haven't looked at either too much (the initiator template is still in beta for the second book of weaboo fightan magic from DSP).
Personally, I think you can almost make a playable game using only DSP classes. Psionics, Weaboo Fightan, and Book of Blue stuff...
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Shady314
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Post by Shady314 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:20 pm

I wasn't really referring to the Soulbolt which is not worth taking to high levels but the gifted blade (especially with psionic knack) along with archetypes such as soulbolt or deadly fist and/or prestige into Elocater/Soul Archer which can be used to create ranged beatsticks or non-shitty monks.
Theyre still not psions or wizards, it mostly makes them competitive with psychic warriors, but with the right dips you can play them now and actually have fun and not drag your party down.
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:20 pm

From level 1, onward; I've found that in gameplay, the "best" Soulknife character is best played by a plain Ranger who reflavours everything they do.
I specifically made such a character because an other player wanted to play a Soulknife; and I suggested they play a reskinned Ranger in order to not suffer.
They stated that they didn't believe what I was saying was remotely true at all; and I asked them if playing a character that I described would be alright with them while they played a Soulknife. Lo and behold, my halfling "Soulranger" with their riding dog mount was a more effective character at things that a Soulknife specializes in (i.e. stabbing Bears; ranged damage); while also being a Ranger on top of that.
One play session later, they understood that underlying mechanics are more important to the narrative than any of the overlaying descriptions.
The really sad thing is how weak (or balanced) the Ranger class is.
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TheFlatline
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Post by TheFlatline » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:52 am

> Prak wrote:I've thought for a while now that D&D's tiered spell series should be collapsed, ie, that Cure Light/Moderate/Serious/Major Wounds should be condensed into just Cure Wounds and either the spell slot used or the caster level dictates how much you heal, and Summon Nature's Ally/Summon Monster should just be a single spell each that directs you to the list appropriate to your level, or maybe even just a single spell for both that gives you a list based on level and class/theme.

Interestingly enough this is how channelers work in the Wheel of Time D20 game. You still have spell levels but they're variable. Fireball is a 3rd-6th spell. You pump your spell level into the spell and get a variable result. In fireball's case, you get 3d6-6d6 depending on the spell level (so in this case it's a nerf, though you can overchannel and buff lower spell slots as higher ones and lots of other shit to generally be a more effective spell-slinger).
It got interesting when you got into stuff like Balefire. 9th level spell if memory served, and it was basically reflex or die or a ranged touch attack or something like that. If you managed to pump it up to 12th level through sa'angreal or something similar you got the ability to undo someone's actions for the last several minutes.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:41 am

Cool. I started going though the PHB spells and categorizing things as a preliminary work for collapsing, but only got into the Bs I think. There's a reason I try to leave documents open on my computer when I'm still working on them...

Ok, so this is a really, really, incredibly stupid question, but I'm interested in suggestions-
The game I'm playing in centers around a massive child gladiator fight for the purpose of the winner becoming a god-killer. Apparently this might be a reference to something, I don't know.
Being the evil fuck I am and an artificer, I finagled my way into turning the tournament into a massive sacrifice (a la BoVD) and soul-farm, and suggested the GM allow me to basically take 20 on the sacrifice rolls rather than roll 500+ times. Between that and rounding up bonuses from conditions and an item that gives me bonuses on Kn. Religion, I basically get a 50+ roll every time multiple deaths happen in a single even of this tournament.
Now for the incredibly stupid question- A sacrifice allows, with a DC 50 Kn. Religion check, for the celebrant to be granted a one-time wish (at least one time per god). The current party make up is me, playing an artificer with the rules bent over my leg and spanked like a red-headed brat sub, a guy playing a drunkard junkie pirate who really doesn't care so long as he gets to talk about getting high, getting drunk, and banging prostitutes, and my friend who was told by the GM "please don't play a mage," and so played a fighter "for the challenge" instead and is pissed at me for interpreting the rules somewhere between "the natural way to read them" and "well, that's certainly a way to read them..." Last game the ride home was primarily spent arguing over the interaction of Faerun's Magical Artisan and Eberron's Artisan feats.
So I've been mulling things over and trying to decide what to wish for, walking the fine line between advantageous and "sure, lets make my ride who's already not liking the fact that I'm a level ahead because of Story XP hate me even more." The Book of Vile Darkness would be a very character appropriate thing to wish for, because my character is a devil-fucking, child's-soul-crafting, evil bitch, and it would increase their level another step, and give them xp, and give them a valuable reference tome that would impress the fuck out of their boyfriend. I'd love to take a template like Lich (with a wish like "I wish to qualify for and gain the Lich template with [blank] as my phylactery" so I actually go up to caster level 11) because in addition to the benefits from just that template, I'd then qualify for Dark Speech (my Cha is two points too low) and could take it as my level up feat, since I just hit 6th. And the increased ECL might actually ameliorate things with the fighter. Maybe.
But what would people suggest (other than "punch yourself in the face for what you've done")? The last thing I posited to the GM was the feat Clockwork Centurion as a manifestation of wishing for a "magic item" that basically lets me sit in a safe place crafting shit while it adventures for me (ie, my cohort). Other than that, I do need a 25,000gp gem for an immortality ritual, and so may just wish for that, but without knowing the mechanical benefits (if any) of said ritual, I'm not about to blow a wish on "you won't die from old age"
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:08 am

So just to be clear, you are playing in a game with a blithering ignoramous, and an optimizer who was specifically told he wasn't allowed to optimize, and your response is to claim that you can Wish to have a CL of 11 at level 6 and be a lich for free?
Yeah. I was going to suggest you should wish for the fighter to be replaced with a Wizard so that your alleged friend could also enjoy the game instead of you just fucking with him and making him miserable because you are a small minded cockbag, but after you suggesting having CL 11 at level 6 I think instead you should wish for a new gaming group, because fuck knows why those people remain friends with you when you offer literally nothing to them except rampant douchebaggery.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:21 am

> Prak wrote:Cool. I started going though the PHB spells and categorizing things as a preliminary work for collapsing, but only got into the Bs I think. There's a reason I try to leave documents open on my computer when I'm still working on them...

> Ok, so this is a really, really, incredibly stupid question, but I'm interested in suggestions-
> The game I'm playing in centers around a massive child gladiator fight for the purpose of the winner becoming a god-killer. Apparently this might be a reference to something, I don't know.
> Being the evil fuck I am and an artificer, I finagled my way into turning the tournament into a massive sacrifice (a la BoVD) and soul-farm, and suggested the GM allow me to basically take 20 on the sacrifice rolls rather than roll 500+ times. Between that and rounding up bonuses from conditions and an item that gives me bonuses on Kn. Religion, I basically get a 50+ roll every time multiple deaths happen in a single even of this tournament.
> Now for the incredibly stupid question- A sacrifice allows, with a DC 50 Kn. Religion check, for the celebrant to be granted a one-time wish (at least one time per god). The current party make up is me, playing an artificer with the rules bent over my leg and spanked like a red-headed brat sub, a guy playing a drunkard junkie pirate who really doesn't care so long as he gets to talk about getting high, getting drunk, and banging prostitutes, and my friend who was told by the GM "please don't play a mage," and so played a fighter "for the challenge" instead and is pissed at me for interpreting the rules somewhere between "the natural way to read them" and "well, that's certainly a way to read them..." Last game the ride home was primarily spent arguing over the interaction of Faerun's Magical Artisan and Eberron's Artisan feats.
> So I've been mulling things over and trying to decide what to wish for, walking the fine line between advantageous and "sure, lets make my ride who's already not liking the fact that I'm a level ahead because of Story XP hate me even more." The Book of Vile Darkness would be a very character appropriate thing to wish for, because my character is a devil-fucking, child's-soul-crafting, evil bitch, and it would increase their level another step, and give them xp, and give them a valuable reference tome that would impress the fuck out of their boyfriend. I'd love to take a template like Lich (with a wish like "I wish to qualify for and gain the Lich template with [blank] as my phylactery" so I actually go up to caster level 11) because in addition to the benefits from just that template, I'd then qualify for Dark Speech (my Cha is two points too low) and could take it as my level up feat, since I just hit 6th. And the increased ECL might actually ameliorate things with the fighter. Maybe.
> But what would people suggest (other than "punch yourself in the face for what you've done")? The last thing I posited to the GM was the feat Clockwork Centurion as a manifestation of wishing for a "magic item" that basically lets me sit in a safe place crafting shit while it adventures for me (ie, my cohort). Other than that, I do need a 25,000gp gem for an immortality ritual, and so may just wish for that, but without knowing the mechanical benefits (if any) of said ritual, I'm not about to blow a wish on "you won't die from old age"

Submitted with no further comment:
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:26 am

Well... I bring cookies for them sometimes too.
Since we're using regular, non-tome D&D stuff "give me a +5 bonus to CL and the Lich template" is theoretically a viable wish. I never said it was a good thing to do. I'm tempted to pass the suggestion of "I wish the fighter could be what he really wanted to be" along to the player in question and then ask the GM if "I wish Fighter's player could play a mage" is a viable wish, but I think it'd fail on first principles, since the Fighter's player is genuinely interested in the question of "can I make a viable character straight-classing fighter." Of course, in the last, fuck, seven games? We've done fuck all but run around a city gathering info and training the kid we brought to the tournament and trying to arrange things such that he has a better chance of winning. To that end I've given him at least one magical item.
But, I mean, my point is that there's been practically nothing to actually contribute to. The pirate's been getting high and drunk and sleeping with things in between teaching the kid to fight dirty, the fighter's been teaching the kid to fight, and I've been teaching the kid about magic and making shit for him in some weird totally-not-transparent system with no clear outputs for our inputs.
I actually considered just switching characters, but I'd have to decide what I wanted to play, since the first thought was paladin, and he would basically be forced to shut down the entire fucking tournament or die trying.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

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Eikre
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Post by Eikre » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:44 pm

> CapnTthePirateG wrote:Can I use Lord of the Uttercold on a Shadow Evocation? Trying to see if Uttercold Assault Necromancer is viable sans actually using evocation spells.

Lord of the Uttercold can only be applied to spells with the [Cold] descriptor.
You might be wondering if Shadow Evocation shouldn't append the descriptors of the spells they're emulating. The thing is, though, that there are spells whose descriptors are specified by the way you use them, on such example being the Summon Monsters line. In this case, the proviso is conspicuously absent.
Now, the ordinary method of tacking on the [Cold] descriptor outright is with a feat called Snowcasting. Ordinarily, this is a great idea, because there's all sorts of benefits you can stack up that automatically apply to [Cold] spells; lots of +DC, some automatic Extend, stuff like that. Lord of Uttercold, however, is a metamagic feat, and Snowcasting is only applicable when you actually cast the spell.
So the short of it is that, yes, you can do it, but you need a feat and a way to apply metamagic ad hoc, so that you can fold Uttercold in at the same moment you do the [Cold] descriptor it requires. That means you're either a spontaneous spellcaster, or you've got something like Divine Metamagic, Ultimate Magus class features, or a custom metamagic rod, which otherwise lets you modify your prepared spells on the fly.
Note that if you're really devoted to the idea, there are a few Conjuration spells that have energy descriptors and deal direct damage. Nothing quite as applicable to Uttercold as Wall of Fire is, though.
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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:38 am

Are there any RPG's where you roleplay as Black people in a Black majority setting?
Bonus points if there's a social mechanic to encourage you to play up certain Black archtypes (like honor in an oriental setting).
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Longes
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Post by Longes » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:41 am

Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom.
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Almaz
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Post by Almaz » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:44 am

> OgreBattle wrote:Bonus points if there's a social mechanic to encourage you to play up certain Black archtypes (like honor in an oriental setting).

What would you say those are, tho'?
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