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## Animu: The imbalanced encounter.

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Psychic Robot
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### Animu: The imbalanced encounter.

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Post by Psychic Robot » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:44 am

Unlike some folks, I am not an animu connoisseur. My palate is unrefined, so to speak, and I do not frequently watch animu, so my experience is limited. However, I have noticed a trend in animu for the "boss" battles to be extremely imbalanced. It seems that many of them--not all of them, mind you, but a great deal of them--go roughly as follows:
1. Fight begins.
2. Mid-combat chitchat.
3. The protagonist is easily outmatched by the antagonist.
4. The antagonist beats the protagonist down.
5. More chitchat.
6. The protagonist unlocks some Hidden Power.
7. Chitchat.
8. The protagonist easily defeats the antagonist.
9. More chitchat.
Alternatively, they go:
1. Fight begins.
2. Mid-combat chitchat.
3. The protagonist is easily outmatched by the antagonist.
4. The antagonist beats the protagonist down.
5. But wait! The protagonist has a Just As Planned, with chitchat explanations.
6. The antagonist counters with his own Just As Planned, with chitchat explanations.
7. The protagonist has another Just As Planned/Secret Move he uses, with more explanations.
8. The protagonist defeats the antagonist.
9. More chitchat.
Or they might go:
1. Fight begins.
2. Mid-combat chitchat.
3. The protagonist and antagonist are evenly matched.
4. Aha! The antagonist was hiding his true strength.
5. Chitchat.
6. But wait! The protagonist was also hiding his strength!
7. Chitchat. Just As Planned/or Hidden Power ensue.
8. The protagonist defeats the antagonist.
9. More chitchat.
Again, these observations are just from my limited experience, but can't there be a fight where people are evenly matched and they win without Plot Device methods? Feel free to "school" me or point me in the direction of an animu where they don't do this.

> Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.

> Ant wrote:

> > Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?

> You do not seem to do anything.

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Koumei
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###

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Post by Koumei » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:09 am

Ranma 1/2: usually, the first time they meet, the antagonist has some technique or ability that Ranma is unfamiliar with, and they school him/her. But he figures out a way around it so that the next time they meet, they're on an even footing and he wins in the end (either by being that little bit better, or by them relying on a cheap tactic too much and him countering it over and over).
Sailor Moon: every battle involves the enemy vaguely attacking, the senshi leaping around defensively, some of the others unleashing attacks, then an interference (without disqualification! Hax!) by:
A. Tuxedo Kamen
B. The Outer Senshi
C. The Sailor Stars
or D. Any combo of the above
Sailor Moon then gets her shit together and uses her destroyer on the enemy.
Full Metal Panic! Fumoffu?: the fights are hilariously one-sided as Sosuke is that much better... and when enemies say it will be an anything-goes real combat environment (because they study GRAV MAGA! Vale Tudo REAL STREET COMBAT), he assumes that means it's okay to shoot them. He only uses rubber bullets though. Other than that, there are a few occasions without Just As Planned or dirty tricks, against foes on his level, and they usually go to a draw.
Ikkitousen: in the first season, any fight that doesn't involve the protagonist and her two lovely friends. In the second and third season, she doesn't just go "RAAAA!" and unlock her evildemondeathgod mode.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Caedrus
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 728
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

### Re: Animu: The imbalanced encounter.

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Post by Caedrus » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:35 pm

> Psychic Robot wrote:Unlike some folks, I am not an animu connoisseur. My palate is unrefined, so to speak, and I do not frequently watch animu, so my experience is limited. However, I have noticed a trend in animu for the "boss" battles to be extremely imbalanced. It seems that many of them--not all of them, mind you, but a great deal of them--go roughly as follows:
> 1. Fight begins.
> 2. Mid-combat chitchat.
> 3. The protagonist is easily outmatched by the antagonist.
> 4. The antagonist beats the protagonist down.
> 5. More chitchat.
> 6. The protagonist unlocks some Hidden Power.
> 7. Chitchat.
> 8. The protagonist easily defeats the antagonist.
> 9. More chitchat.
> Alternatively, they go:
> 1. Fight begins.
> 2. Mid-combat chitchat.
> 3. The protagonist is easily outmatched by the antagonist.
> 4. The antagonist beats the protagonist down.
> 5. But wait! The protagonist has a Just As Planned, with chitchat explanations.
> 6. The antagonist counters with his own Just As Planned, with chitchat explanations.
> 7. The protagonist has another Just As Planned/Secret Move he uses, with more explanations.
> 8. The protagonist defeats the antagonist.
> 9. More chitchat.
> Or they might go:
> 1. Fight begins.
> 2. Mid-combat chitchat.
> 3. The protagonist and antagonist are evenly matched.
> 4. Aha! The antagonist was hiding his true strength.
> 5. Chitchat.
> 6. But wait! The protagonist was also hiding his strength!
> 7. Chitchat. Just As Planned/or Hidden Power ensue.
> 8. The protagonist defeats the antagonist.
> 9. More chitchat.
> Again, these observations are just from my limited experience, but can't there be a fight where people are evenly matched and they win without Plot Device methods? Feel free to "school" me or point me in the direction of an animu where they don't do this.

Get away from shonen crap like Dragonball Z, Bleach, Naruto, and so forth and this happens much less often.
Try, say, Sword of the Stranger, Seirei no Moribito, Pumpkin Scissors, or Fullmetal Alchemist.
For example, this is what a fight in Sword of the Stranger looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAo7IAvg ... ted&fmt=18
Or Seirei no Moribito: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcbMca_qiU8&NR=1
Last edited by Caedrus on Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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CatharzGodfoot
  King
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  Location: North Carolina

###

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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:38 pm

1) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
2) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-
3) HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4) BOOM!
AKA the Dragon Ball Z formula.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
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Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
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Caedrus
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  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

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Post by Caedrus » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:40 pm

> CatharzGodfoot wrote:Episode 1) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
> Episode 2) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-
> Episode 3) HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Episode 4) BOOM!
> AKA the Dragon Ball Z formula.

Fixed.
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TavishArtair
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 593
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

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Post by TavishArtair » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:19 pm

Yeah, I have to concur that this is mostly a phenomenon in "shonen" type shows. See, the shonen shows are aimed at boys, usually 15 year olds who think big explosions and dramatic fights are cool. And to be fair, I'm totally not going to disagree with them. I just wish that shonen series had plots that resolved within a usual season or three run.
In fact, that's a good point. The main way to avoid shonen shows that follow the cliche fight scheme hundreds of times is to look for the series that have ended at around their 50th episode, or 2 seasons. That way even if they do use this scheme, at least you can deal with it long enough to finish the series and generally enjoy an ending instead of staring at the other 150 episodes you have to watch to just catch up with the main plot. Hurgh!
Off the top of my head, for the most part King of Braves GaoGaiGar doesn't do this. It's a super robot anime, meanig that the hero is in a giant mecha beating up dudes. Accordingly his "win button" is pretty much always within reach, barring the of course mid-season arc where it isn't for plot reasons. The only reason he doesn't just use it right away and end the fight is that sometimes there are other, more important things. And I don't mean the giant mecha, either, he always pulls that out at the earliest convenience, I mean his Final Attack.
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Orion
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Post by Orion » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:55 pm

I don't understand the question. How could an even match be settled by anything BUT a plot device?
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Kobajagrande
  Master
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  Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:55 am

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Post by Kobajagrande » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:24 am

If you look like that, every match is solved by plot, because, naturally, the plot needs the character X to win.
The question is whether the writer will reach for the formula used 10,000 times before, which maybe works, but has become too boringly predictive, or try and do something different.
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Vnonymous
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###

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Post by Vnonymous » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:09 pm

Death Note is shonen without the silly battles.
I'm also going to reccomend Berserk as inspiration for fights that don't follow that formula. There's a grand total of about 3 powerups that happen in the entire series.
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ubernoob
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  Posts: 2444
  Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:30 am

###

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Post by ubernoob » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:55 pm

> Vnonymous wrote:Death Note is shonen without the silly battles.
> I'm also going to reccomend Berserk as inspiration for fights that don't follow that formula. There's a grand total of about 3 powerups that happen in the entire series.

Berserk is *awesome* on so many levels.
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