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Lago PARANOIA
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### Going back to college.

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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:52 pm

So anyway, I'm out of the Navy and I'm done with my 7-month vacation. Now it's time to move on.
So college.
The problem; I have no idea what the fuck I'm supposed to do here. Someone help me out.
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Lich-Loved
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Post by Lich-Loved » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:09 pm

You may want to head over to a Career Planner site and take a number of surveys. Before you do that though, do some soul-searching to determine how important money, helping others, working primarily with your hands/brain, working indoors/outdoors and the like is to you. Basically, you need assess your values. You also need to look to the future. If you want to get married (for example), making more money is always a plus; it helps attract women because you are financially secure and apparently they like that sort of thing.
Also, as you narrow down your career choices, find people in those careers and talk to them. People like talking about themselves and generally helping people out, so tap into this desire to get the details on careers. You can hook up with people here ( I would be glad to talk about engineering for example and there are other career people here as well) or go to a place like Yahoo Answers, user groups or forums where people with jobs that interest you meet and ask to speak with people there about their chosen field.
You can then take all of this info and cross-index it with the schools near you that offer what you need and speak to the school itself about career paths, post-graduation placement rates, intern or co-op options and the like.
Good luck!
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:37 pm

I'd look into doing a standardized test (ACT or SAT) to have something to show schools (and possibly get some scholarship money thrown your way. I got a decent scholarship with a 30 ACT, and my sister made a 34 and has all kinds of offers thrown her way).
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Draco_Argentum
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Post by Draco_Argentum » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:36 am

Is college necessary in the US? I don't have a degree, my boss doesn't either and we're server admins. Are you sure you even need a degree do do what you want?
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Neeeek
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### Re: Going back to college.

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Post by Neeeek » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:51 am

> Lago PARANOIA wrote:So anyway, I'm out of the Navy and I'm done with my 7-month vacation. Now it's time to move on.
> So college.
> The problem; I have no idea what the fuck I'm supposed to do here. Someone help me out.

First thing: Take a class in Critical Thinking or Logic. It'll make everything else much easier. Second, take classes in anything you think you might be interested in. Third, take some writing classes. The classes themselves are often useless, but taking them helps because you have to write for them.
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violence in the media
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Post by violence in the media » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:34 pm

What did you do in the Navy?
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Post by TarkisFlux » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:20 pm

I have to go with Draco on this one. College may not even be something you need to worry about, it really depends on what you want to do. If you don't have a career in mind, college isn't a bad place to waste some time sorting it out, but it isn't really moving on if you don't have a direction.
So, the question is 'where do you want to be in 5 years?'
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:50 pm

> Draco_Argentum wrote:Is college necessary in the US? I don't have a degree, my boss doesn't either and we're server admins. Are you sure you even need a degree do do what you want?

College isn't needed per se, but you DO need to have a vocation, and a piece of paper saying how smart you are, whether it's a college degree, a welding license, or whatever.
If you don't have some sort of specialized skill, you are either a minimum wage slave and go on government assistance to pay the bills (no matter what anyone says, $7 an hour doesn't pay your bills), or you become a factory worker and be a slave (as in, you have a medical emergency? Tough shit, you better call in two days prior to getting hit by a car or you're fired), but make just enough to pay your bills, but not enough to really have it good.
In America, you either learn a trade, get a degree, or you are worse than shit.
Advice for Lago: Be prepared: your gen-ed English classes are going to be the hardest classes you'll take unless you're good with predicting what arbitrary standard the instructor uses. English is used as a wash-out class to keep people out of college. Don't try to think it's logical, it's dictated by the whims of your teacher and how willing you are to follow the teacher's standards no matter how stupid they are. To give an example, my ENG 111 teacher wouldn't give you an "A" on a paper unless every sentence was a complex sentence of some sort. Every rule of English and citation could be followed, the paper clear and compelling, but if you didn't use any complex sentences you got a C regardless of anything else. (I have a friend that's two years into grad school to get a doctorate in English. I asked her to help me revise a paper, which she did gladly. Following her advice, I got a C because of the complex sentence bullshit. However, once I figured out the trick, I had two essays in a row get an A, plus my "class participation" and attendance rounded me up to a B.)
Once you get a little farther into English, it gets a bit easier. Standards are based on what the essay is about rather than the teacher's whim.
Learn before you enter: There is a difference between a correct answer and the best answer. If you are taking a multiple choice test, they want the BEST answer. I have seen so many of my fellow non-trad students make complete and total asses of themselves throwing tantrums in class because they wouldn't get that distinction. Please don't do that, it makes the rest of us look bad and also makes the rest of us fantasize about punching you in the dick. Just say no.
Hope that your job market is better where you go to school at than where I am. You can't get a full-time job that lets you go to classes in my area of the country. When I told my last boss that I was going back to college and wasn't available for call-ins during class, he told me that if I missed a call because of class I was fired on the spot. Be prepared to settle for a minimum-wage retail job.
Last edited by Count Arioch the 28th on Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:45 pm

I dunno about classes in college success and study habits.
They were required my first semester at university, and while I aced it, I tanked everything else.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:39 pm

I slept through my mandatory study habit and college success courses, and I do fairly well in my classes. Except Accounting for some reason.
Be sure you keep in good communication with your academic advisers, guidance counselors, and others. I recommend not taking any 1 person's advice though, I'm having to scramble to fix several issues because the one person that gave me advice didn't know WTF they were talking about.
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:12 am

> Neeek wrote:First thing: Take a class in Critical Thinking or Logic. It'll make everything else much easier. Second, take classes in anything you think you might be interested in. Third, take some writing classes. The classes themselves are often useless, but taking them helps because you have to write for them.

If you're still trying to figure out what direction to start to go in (as opposed to a direction you're already going in), this is some pretty damned good advice.
You might consider going to a community college and doing all this stuff because it's comparatively inexpensive, and once you get a degree like an AA, not only do you generally have a better idea of where you'd like to go, but the credits you've taken transfer more assuredly.
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Post by TarkisFlux » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:49 am

I like community colleges, but they are not a good call if you already know what school you want to go to. 4-Years have separate pools for undergrad transfers (from community colleges) and new admissions, and the transfer pool is generally a lot smaller so competition is a lot tougher. They will also probably have an acceptance program with a feeder community college, further reducing slots available to you.
You really need to be a part of a feed program or significantly better than most of the other transfers to move on from a community college, which may affect your school options. It was not fun to find this out first hand after doing a crappy year at a community college getting my head in order.
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Maj
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Post by Maj » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:57 am

> TarkisFlux wrote:I like community colleges, but they are not a good call if you already know what school you want to go to.

Agreed (this is what I tried to say in the first paragraph, but you said it better).

> TarkisFlux wrote:You really need to be a part of a feed program or significantly better than most of the other transfers to move on from a community college, which may affect your school options. It was not fun to find this out first hand after doing a crappy year at a community college getting my head in order.

I don't know if you transfered with a degree or not, but that does change things significantly, which is why I mentioned it.
Alternately, once you figure things out, you can apply as a new student and not inform the school you want to go to about your time at a community college.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:16 am

Some times community college classes can be really dumbed down. I had the privilege of taking intro physics at both a community college and at the university, and they were totally different experiences.
Not that dumbed-down is necessarily bad; I failed physics at the university.
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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:48 pm

I just "got out" of college, I'm still here for grad school.
Firstly. Go to college. There are people on this forum telling you "well, maybe you don't have to". This is true, but if you are coming out of the military, it's free. Not going to college, for you, is stupid. Going to a community college is a waste of time (not all of your credits will transfer, no matter what any of the administrative liars like to tell you).
I assume that you can manage your life with reasonable competency. You pay your bills on time, you save up to buy a TV, you don't come in sloshed to work, and you pursue goals that help you succeed later in life.
Here has been my checklist of career fields:
1 - Do what you enjoy doing. I like dicking around with computers. You may like fixing cars, or balancing a real estate market. Do that, with one exception.
2 - Do what makes money. I love juggling, using the diabolo, and doing handstands, but that isn't a career path.
That being said, I would advice taking something REALLY HARD, that you like. Usually the really hard things end up paying off in the end. Major in anything that requires Calculus, and you should have the number 2 thing figured out. Don't crap out and major in Electrical Engineering Technology because it is easier and you like to work more hands-on, kick it up the extra notch and major in Electrical Engineering for the extra $15K/year and the ability to work in the air conditioning.
I highly recommend any of the core science or engineering disciplines, they have given me a very nice life. Our household (Computer Engineer and Medical Laboratory Technologist (4 year, theory degree, not 2 year technician degree)) makes above $100K/year, with government benefits less than 1 year after college. We will be over the 120 mark next year, and likely in the 150s a 1-2 years after that. We have been to Japan, San Diego, DC, and all about Florida (we live here), and Vegas this year in addition to recently putting in an offer on a house, having solid 401K programs, and keeping a large savings. We also get something like 4 weeks of vacation/year (and we aren't vested yet). Be a professional, please, it gets you treated nicely by society, and compensated nicely by your employer. Money is not everything, but it helps.
These are the things that you should do, in order:
1 - study for the SAT. It matters.
2 - look for colleges
3 - take SAT
4 - pick a college (look at cost of living, # of degree programs offered, and grants offered to students)
5 - apply to college
6 - find a place to live (dorms are expensive and suck, find some roommates if you can, typically the campus has some sort of partnership or website to find them)
7 - move to 6 before classes start
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:02 am

Math at community colleges suck, though.
I don't get it, it's like all remedial math classes designed to make you hate math, not really learn anything new, or actually pass the placement test.
And hence, it's the only subject I haven't taken at community college.
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Neeeek
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Post by Neeeek » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:08 am

> SunTzuWarmaster wrote: Going to a community college is a waste of time (not all of your credits will transfer, no matter what any of the administrative liars like to tell you).

Unless you happen to live in California, in which case community colleges rock, and you are guaranteed a transfer to a 4 year state university as long as your GPA is good enough. And the system that determines which units transfer and which don't is extremely simple.
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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:31 pm

Herre's the list of why community colleges have sucked, from personal experience.
The below is an accumulation of >7 friends at college
- not all of the credits transfer. It has not mattered how many people that you talk to or what promises that they make, not all of them transfer.
- knowing that not all of the credits transfer, you can transfer in with an AA/AS. The good thing is that you won't have to take English 2, because they can't legally make you. The bad news is that you retake your core classes (if you don't take any core classes at the CC, this can work). This delays your degree by 1 year, however, because the core classes are usually meant to start up in the 2nd year of college. You can make up this time, but it involves some hardcore summers (2 3-4 class summer semesters).
- Math/Physics/Science classes at the CC just blow. They either transfer (not likely), and you suck at the next class or they don't (likely) and you retake them.
- The 4 year degree college nearly never accepts you Electronics I, or whatever. The only way around this is usually to take a test (the final of the class), and that test is usually made super-hard so that you don't pass it. No, I'm not kidding.
I have seen exactly 0 people graduate in 4 years with a CC transfer. I have seen >20% graduate in 4 years without a CC transfer. This leads me to believe that a CC transfer will make your degree last 5 years.
There are situations where a 5 year degree is okay:
My cousin got paid ~7K/semester to go to a CC, and could live at home while doing it. If you couple this with a part time (or full time if you are hardcore) job, you can easily be banking 40K/year while not having any real expenses (gas/food/fun only). You use this money to buy a house.
My brother went to a college when cost of living was cheap, and picked up his AS to transfer to a college with a degree program that he wanted (degree program not offered at good college).
You can use a CC as the backdoor into a real college, or the college that you want. A friend of mine got denied from UF, but was a diehard Gator fan (3rd generation). He used the CC to get into UF (they have to accept people with AA/AS transfers).
I advise against it in the OPs situation:
Here is your plan to afford college, make money while doing it, and be out as soon as you possibly can:
- The new GI bill will pay for your college, no questions asked. You abuse this as much as you can. Take 4 classes/semester, and 2 classes/summer. You are a smart guy, and can probably figure out what order to take classes in. You will graduate in 4 years with this plan.
- Apply for scholarships. www.fastweb.com is where they are at. Also, the college you pick may offer scholarships to people that apply early or whatever, DO THIS.
- You pay attention to your first classes. This is your grade buoy. Just because it is Theater doesn't mean that you shouldn't get an A in it. You are going to get a B (or lower) at Calculus or Organic Chemistry, so you need the early As to not drop out. As an honors student, I flirted with the drop out because of getting Bs in English/Theater/Economics. Don't make my mistake.
- You will live close to campus, in an area that is accessed by shuttle/bus, OR you will drive a shitty scooter-thing OR ride a bike. You will save significant amounts of money on car repairs (I average 1/year for $1000), and significant money on insurance (~$1000/year).
- You will will get a part time job for the 1st 2 years of college. Part time job must make enough money to pay rent+food+transportation. Finding such a job should not be hard. I recommend working in a restaurant, as they will occasionally give you food, and the tip money usually equates out to ~$12/hour around here. This means that you should have to work about 50 hours/month or 12.5 hours/week. Work 20 and give yourself some spending money.
- You will get an internship after your 2nd year of college. This should pay something in the $15-18/hour range. Get a suit, go on interviews. You should be able to bank about 1/3 of this paycheck, working your 20 hours/week or so. You can buy a car to transport to this job (not likely to be in bike-riding distance) because now you can afford one. Buy a car that is not particularly new or old, that is at a good price. Used.
--------------------------------
At the end of this time period, you should come out of college after 4 years with a full time job guaranteed (which 2 years of experience when you go out and see what other people are offering), and something like 20K in your pocket, and a good credit score (pay for everything with credit and pay it off at the end of the month, your few expenses will allow this). You are set up to win at life.
PS - The above is hard. Classes are hard. College is hard. You can do it, however. It is usually pretty simply a matter of time you put into studying. People that don't study drop out, and people that do study stay in and graduate. You have been in the military though, the above schedule has you working less than in the military.
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Post by TarkisFlux » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:26 pm

> SunTzuWarmaster wrote:I highly recommend any of the core science or engineering disciplines

Agreed, with one exception: Physics. Do not get a physics degree unless you want to do grad school or something not physics. It sounds lovely on it's own, but it really is the Liberal Arts degree of the sciences. It doesn't prepare you for anything in the field, since those all require advanced degrees. And while you do learn quite a bit of useful stuff, everything you're qualified for has it's own separate major, and those graduates are much more qualified than you are.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade my physics degree for another one, but it's not a good career move unless you're in for the long haul.
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:53 pm

He is actually in a unique position for the physics degree, although I agree with your sentiments.
Of course he knows of http://www.usajobs.gov/
He is likely to take a government job. He is legally required to be considered before people without military experience, and if he is qualified he is mandated to receive the position. No, I'm not kidding.
With a degree in ANY science (yes, including sociology or psychology, but not economics), he will be entering at the SPRDE career field, and getting the inflated pay just as if he had majored in Engineering/Chemistry/<other science or math>.
Normally a physics or mathematics degree will sell yourself short of a career without additional schooling, but in this particular case he is free to enter with the double-leg-up (military+science).
Also, to the op, keep in mind that a government job will stack with your military time for determining your retirement 3-high base pay. It is not inconsequential.
But yes, I would recommend against Physics or Theoretical Mathematics (Applied Mathematics is fine, considering it is very close to Computer Science).
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Post by Draco_Argentum » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:45 am

Call this an australian question but why in the crap would someone in a science/engineering course choose English/Theater/Economics subjects. You certainly don't need to do that here.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:51 pm

They mnake you take a bunch of crap not related to your major. Which can range from interesting (I enjoyed the history I've taken) to outright painful (blah blah accounting etc. I've said it all already).
Also, the community college hate is mostly valid, but there is one thing to keep in mind. I know that Virginia has a law that colleges have to accept community college transfer students if they meet requirements. For example, if I get a 3.0 GPA, James MAdison University literally has no choice but to accept me.
Again, not sure if where Lago lives has that on the books or not. Also, they do allow the colleges to set the standards. This can suck because they can randomly jack up the requirements if they feel like it (The aforementioned JMU has high standards despite being a mediocre business college to stop locals from getting in.)
As for me, it's transfer from community college or nothing, no college will accept me based on my high school grades, no one told me that they would judge me on how I was doing when I was 14 and being sexually and physically assaulted on a daily basis by my classmates rather than when I was 16 and was grinding their faces in the dirt for what they put me through.
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Post by zeruslord » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:08 pm

It's actually a minimum number with penalties attached, but the number of people trying to do it is so low that VT and UVA admissions people were actually pushing it to my class.
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:26 pm

Since I've been plugging my school lately:
You can look up a sample Aerospace 4-year degree plan here:
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:7Bf ... =firefox-a
Take note of the 1st year or so of sample classes, on page 2:
Comp I, Comp II, speech
and the 2nd year:
History, Probability and statistics
and the 4th year:
Theater/Film
These are called your "general education" classes. You write essays, give speeches, and have groups. In other words, you don't care and your teacher doesn't care. However, you NEED A's in these classes because you are taking them opposite classes like "advanced thermodynamics" (where there is a fairly low probability of As).
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Post by Absentminded_Wizard » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:01 am

> Draco_Argentum wrote:Call this an australian question but why in the crap would someone in a science/engineering course choose English/Theater/Economics subjects. You certainly don't need to do that here.

They're called General Education Requirements. The idea behind them is that college is supposed to turn you into a well-rounded person. Of course, some of them are especially designed to be easy for people outside the major. For example, my college had a gen-ed called "Mathematics and the Modern World," basically remedial math for stupid liberal arts majors. I took business calc instead.
As I understand it, community colleges are actually pretty good for gen-eds. In fact, the best advice is to take nothing but gen-eds at the CC and save all your major classes for the four-year school, if you go the 2+2 route. That's because gen-eds tend to be the most transferrable credits, especially if you transfer from a CC to a public university.
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