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traverse
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### [Tome] The Exultant

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Post by traverse » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:29 am

Exultant
“We fear to know the fearsome and unsavory aspects of ourselves, but we fear even more to know the godlike in ourselves.”
Exultants grew up with a strange feeling about life. More than likely, this was because of the fluke connecting them permanently to the positive energy plane. Unfettered by any divine intermediary or cap, this connection can generate spectacular benefits for the Exultant. Not without its drawbacks, however, the constant flow of positive energy can deal a heavy blow to the psyche, not to mention the fact that such easy access to divine abilities can make them many ecclesiastic enemies.
Alignment: Any.
Races: Any.
Starting Gold: 6d4x10 gp (150 gold)
Starting Age: As Rogue.
Hit Die: d8
Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus
Class Skills: The Exultant’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis).
BAB: Medium (3/4) Saves: Fort: Poor; Reflex: Good; Will: Poor
1 Beacon, Candent Strike 1d6
2 Floodlight, You're Fine
3 The First Word
4 Heavy Hands, Candent Strike 2d6
5 Comet
6 Faith Healing
7 Lockdown, Candent Strike 3d6
8 Phantom Strings
9 Divine Revelry
10 Subsistence, Voices, Brightstomp, Candent Strike 4d6
11 The Second Word
12 Daybreak
13 Persuasive Oration, Candent Strike 5d6
14 Positive Influences
15 Sweeping Corona
16 You and Yours, Candent Strike 6d6
17 Act of Disparation
18 Time Enough
19 The Third Word, Candent Strike 7d6
20 All Hail
All of the following are Class Features of the Exultant class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Exultants are proficient with all simple weapons, the bastard sword (including the exotic one-handed style), the scimitar, and all styles of crossbows. Exultants are proficient with Light and Medium Armor, but not with shields of any kind.
Beacon (Su): The Exultant is constantly surrounded by a bright aura of chaotic energies. The aura emits bright light in a 20 foot radius around him, and dim light for an additional 20 feet beyond that. Inside the bright light partial images of the Exultant linger and confuse, granting him concealment (20%) and allowing him to take melee attacks or use any class ability on any creature in his line of sight within the bright light of the aura as though he were adjacent to it. This aura may be suppressed or activated as a swift action. All Exultant abilities marked with an (*) are dependent upon this ability being activated, and immediately end if the aura is suppressed. The aura can be suppressed by any spells or abilities that generate areas of darkness with spell levels higher than half his Exultant level. Equal level effects both cancel the spell and suppress the aura.
Candent Strike (Su): The Exultant is a wellspring of chaotic light. The Exultant can add 1d6 Light Damage to every melee attack he makes. This damage increases by 1d6 every three class levels.
Floodlight* (Su): Exultants can shine a light in the darkness, focusing on the creature they want to pay the most attention to. At 2nd level, the Exultant can tag any creature he has line of sight to within 25 feet + 5 feet per two character levels as a swift action. While the creature is tagged, the Exultant can take melee attacks or use any class ability on the creature as though he were adjacent to it. Only one creature can be tagged at any time. If he loses line of sight with the tagged creature, the tag dissipates.
You're Fine (Ex): At 2nd level, the Exultant can use the Bluff skill in place of the Heal skill for any applicable task. He can attempt to make a First Aid, Treat Poison, or Treat Wound check as a swift action, but the DC is increased to 20.
The First Word (Su): The Exultant can use the language of the gods, the Words of creation, to his benefit. At 3rd level, the Exultant can substitute Sonic Damage for the Light Damage done by his Candent Strikes during this round as a free action. On his first attack of every round in which he chooses to make this substitution, if struck the foe must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) or be dazed. This dazed condition lasts one round.
Heavy Hands (Su): At 4th level, any creature under the affect of the Exultant's Floodlight is treated as carrying a heavy load, and takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. When tagging a creature the Exultant can choose to not use this ability.
Comet (Su): The Exultant can travel along the light he creates, barreling across the landscape. At 5th level, he can take a full round action to immediately cover the distance between himself and the creature tagged with his Floodlight ability. This movement ignores enemies and difficult terrain, but is subject to attacks of opportunity. He can make a single melee attack against the tagged creature at the end of the movement, and treats the attack as a charge.
Faith Healing (Su): At 6th level, anytime the Exultant successfully stabilizes a creature with a First Aid check, he also restores to that creature 5 hit points per the Exultant's ranks in the skill used to stabilize it.
Lockdown (Su): At 7th level, any creature under the effect of the Exultant's Floodlight is is treated as being under the effects of a constant Dimensional Anchor spell. When tagging a creature the Exultant can choose to not use this ability.
Phantom Strings (Sp): At 8th level, the Exultant can use Command (DC 10 + 1/2 ranks Bluff) on any adjacent humanoid as a spell-like ability. The Exultant's caster level is equal to his ranks in the Bluff skill.
Divine Revelry* (Su): At 9th level, the Exultant can choose to teleport any creature he strikes with Light Damage within 20 feet to any other unoccupied square within 20 feet. The creature can make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) to avoid this effect.
Subsistence (Ex): The chaos has found a form. At 10th level, the Exultant gains a chaotically lit copy of himself. This copy has no base statistics or abilities of its own, but shares his, and always follows the Exultant's alignment and motives. Anytime it is hit, the Exultant takes the full damage, and any condition one suffers, both suffer. The copy carries its own items. The copy does not gain the bonuses or abilities granted by any items wielded or worn by the Exultant, nor vice versa. It can use any of his class abilities, save this one. Exultants cannot gain a cohort from any other source.
Voices (Su): At 10th level, the Exultant and his copy are treated as sharing a constant Telepathic Bond, regardless of distance or planar boundaries. This ability allows the Exultant or his copy to treat any creature as adjacent in the two Beacon auras, as long as at least one of them has line of sight to the creature.
Brightstomp (Sp): At 10th level, the Exultant can take a move action to switch places with his copy, as per the Greater Teleport spell, regardless of distance or planar boundaries.
The Second Word (Su): At 11th level, the Exultant can accent the changes granted by The First Word. On his second attack of every round in which he chooses to make the Sonic Damage substitution, if struck the foe must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) or be dazed and confused, as per the confusion spell. The dazed condition imposed by successful Word strikes increases to two rounds.
Daybreak* (Su): At 12th level, the Exultant can take a swift action to expand on the effects of his Beacon aura. The light within the aura's radius becomes equivalent to natural sunlight, and all creatures adjacent to the Exultant on their turn must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) or be temporarily blinded for a number of rounds equal to one half his character level. While this ability is active, the Exultant is treated as being under the constant effect of the See Invisibility spell. He can suppress or activate this ability as a swift action, or activate it as a free action when activating his Beacon aura.
While Daybreak is active, as a standard action, the Exultant can emit a crashing wave of light. This deals 10 Light Damage to any creature within his aura, and pushes them to the nearest square outside his aura if they fail their reflex save (DC 10 +1/2 character level + Charisma modifier.
Persuasive Oration (Sp): At 13th level, the Exultant can use Hold Person (DC 10 + 1/2 ranks Bluff) on any adjacent humanoid as a spell-like ability. The Exultant's caster level is equal to his ranks in the Bluff skill.
Positive Influences (Su): The Exultant can instantly travel to the most direct source of his power. At 14th level, he can take a standard action to teleport himself to within 10 miles (1d10) of any point on the Positive Material Plane, or from there to any square adjacent to his copy. While on the Positive Material Plane, he doesn't need to eat, drink, or breathe, and does not gain temporary hit points from the major positive-dominant trait of that plane when at full hit points, nor is he affected by the energy bursts that plane produces.
Sweeping Corona (Su): At 15th level, the Exultant can take a swift action to create a wall of cresting light between himself and his copy over any distance, as long as the two share line of sight. The wall extends along the ground between them, and 20 feet into the air, and lasts for one round. The end of the wall follows the Exultant and his copy, if they move while its active. The wall immediately dissapates if the two lose line of sight.
While the wall is active, the Exultant and his copy can take a standard action to do one of the following abilities:
Flare: A wave of light moves along the wall. The exultant can make a single melee attack against any creatures along the path of the wall.
Phase Transition: The wall becomes equivalent to a Wall of Force, immediately ejecting any creatures in it's path to the nearest unoccupied square. If either the exultant or his copy move or are moved while this ability is active, it immediately ends.
Prominence: Creatures other than the Exultant on either side of the wall lose line of sight with those opposite the wall. Any creature that passes through the wall, or that the wall passes through, must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) or be temporarily blinded for a number of rounds equal to one half the Exultant's character level.
You and Yours* (Su): At 16th level, whenever the Exultant would deal Light Damage to a creature, he can choose to deal half the damage to that creature, and half the damage to a second creature within 20 feet of him.
Act of Disparation (Sp): At 17th level, the Exultant can use Greater Command (DC 10 + 1/2 ranks Bluff) as a spell-like ability. The Exultant's caster level is equal to his ranks in the Bluff skill.
Time Enough (Ex): At 18th level, the Exultant and his copy are denied the eternal rest by all deities. He ceases to age. If he ever falls below -9 hit points or is otherwise treated as dead, after one round his body, his copy, and everything they carry become insubstantial but visible, outwardly all resembling the light form of the copy. After this point the Exultant can only be restored to life by others with a spell or ability that does not require a part of his original body.
He regains consciousness, but is still dead. Neither he, his copy, nor anything he carries can be affected by or physically interact with matter or energy, though they can speak and be motive as normal, gain a 60' Flight Speed (perfect maneuverability), and can pass through active portals between dimensions. After rising in death, he and his copy can use any skill related to speaking and their Phantom Strings and Persuasive Oration abilities. Their You're Fine, Brightstomp, Voices, Faith Healing, Positive Influences, and Act of Disparation abilities also function as normal.
If either the Exultant or his copy stays on the Positive Material Plane for one hour, they are returned to life, being restored to 1 hit point and regaining substantiality in the square they currently occupy.
The Third Word (Su): At 19th level, the Exultant can further accent the changes granted by The First Word. On his third attack of every round in which he chooses to make the Sonic Damage substitution, if struck the foe must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) or be dazed and driven insane, as per the insanity spell. The dazed condition imposed by successful Word strikes increases to three rounds.
All Hail (Ex): The chaos has become recognizable. At 20th level, the Exultant and his copy lose all discernible separating qualities. The exultant can assume the chaotically lit appearance of his copy, and the copy can choose to look like the Exultant. The Exultant is no longer subject to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage. He permanently gains the Outsider type, the Chaotic subtype, and is treated as Native to both his plane of origin and the Positive Material Plane.
Last edited by traverse on Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:12 am, edited 18 times in total.
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:10 am

Very interesting stuff. I'm seeing some interesting combos as well.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:11 am

The only class features worth a damn are the at-will SLAs. So, compare to Tome classes, then cry.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:19 am

As a start, what if go ahead and uncap the distance between the incarnate and his copy, and make him permanent? He just represses his aura when you do, and you can switch places with him when you want. I know that it's just the capstone ability, and therefore doesn't matter much, but I'm already tiring of it.
Last edited by traverse on Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:09 am

For starters, as you alluded to, nothing you do there'll matter terribly, as it's the last level in the game (BTW, do you actually have an interest in the class self-replicating?). And, compare it to Tome classes - it's just not as relevant as whatever you can count on them to do, from 1 to 20.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:24 am

I do, actually. The posted fluff isn't up to specs yet, but I played the original of this class (weaker, to say the least, I get so sad looking at it) where the copy half of the character was far more involved all the way through, the one performing all of the abilities while having no applied mechanics. Just fluff and an RP tool. Really, I could shift All Hail to level 11 and be happy with the start of a dynamic shift. I'll think about it.
And I've lurked here for a couple of years, but never been able to convince any of my gaming groups to play Tomes, so while I know how to start these things up, I'm still not quite used to the definite articles of comparison with monsters. I'll make some changes in the morning. Sleep TIIIIIME!
/epic
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:41 pm

Converting people is dead easy, just run a few dungeon crawls at lowish levels and you'll see the players change their mind about the core stuff.
Our group recently added a guy that thought that he'd play a PHB barbarian, since "core is balanced" and all that shit. One look at RoW barb and he changed his tune.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:43 pm

At low level you're competing against people who run around with sneak attacks and swinging greatswords and casting colorspray.
If you use your big first level power, an orc warrior should fall down if it hits. If you punch an orc with your super power active and an orc doesn't drop, something is wrong. As such, you want to upgrade the effectiveness of the basic attack at the lower end of the scale.
I mean right now a 1st level character can mark a character as a swift action and then zap them with an Aphotic Strike. But that Aphotic Strike doesn't even do any damage at that level (since you are less than level 3). That's clearly unacceptable. 2nd level doesn't do much either.
You'll want to give it a low level combat schtick. The ability to make melee attacks on enemies within 30 feet regardless of intervening cover or concealment is kind of interesting, but it has to be enough damage to matter or it doesn't matter. So you'll want to be throwing in basic weapon damage on the Aphotic Strike.
And that'll get you through the first couple of levels, especially if you can actually give yourself a concealment effect (which is unclear in the current writeup). A character who does like a d8+2 at short range and is protected by a 20% miss chance would get you through 1st level OK. But a few levels later you'll need to do a lot more damage or be able to juggle people. I mean honestly, a Deafening effect is just sad.
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traverse
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Post by traverse » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:35 am

Okay, made some changes. Big ones include: upping Aphotic Strike damage, adding it to melee strikes; capstone mechanic moved to level 10, upped in power; Word initial effect is now dazed, later effects daze before moving into their secondary effects; Word save is now always fort; upped power on Leech, introducing the 'big explosions' mechanic, my invitation to players to go buy even more dice D: .
Wrong or right direction? Any hazy mechanics? I've gone cross-eyed on the second point.
Edit, in reply to below: Yeah, I thought that was too much. I've edited it down to one round and improving on the gain of a new word. And I really like where confuse and insanity go, but there's really nowhere to go for a condition lower than that that's not just deafened but a bit different.
Last edited by traverse on Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ice9
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Post by Ice9 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:24 am

Looking more solid now, but the long-duration Daze might be over the top - even 3 rounds of Daze is pretty much removing a foe from the battle, and 11 rounds does so completely. Not to mention, it makes the Confused effect pretty meaningless. I'd go with either a shorter-duration Daze (like 1 round), or something like Shaken or Slowed instead.
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ZER0
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Post by ZER0 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:46 am

Besides the weapon and armour proficiency being extraordinarily strange in it's own right, I feel I should mention that the longspear is a simple weapon.
The class really gets a bit confusing for me (I'm not entirely certain exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish), so I'll just pick at one other thing.
For the purpose of Shadow Shift, does that apply to melee attacks?

> Absentminded_Wizard wrote:

> > 4e PHB, p. 57 under "Target" (bolding mine) wrote:When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your team-mates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.

> Yes, according to 4e RAW, you are your own enemy.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:35 pm

Clarified Shadow Shift, and a few other abilities.
The weapon proficiencies aren't really meant to be taken seriously. I couldn't think of what to give them, so I gave them the tried and true fantasy hussar weapons. The armor, well, on the one hand I dislike the unarmored caster trope, and on the other hand he's always got to be right there in the action, so I figure I should give him the option of being there in a tank.
I had no actual goals going into this class, other than actually creating a unique divine class, and working with anarchic and sonic damage. I know he doesn't really come off as divine, but that was how it started. I like the theft of power better, though. A bit of the original fluff text, in spoilers.
Incarnates represent an older, more base connection to a deity. Long before the kingdoms of today there were men who were direct representatives of their gods, and who had free use of the powers granted by that connection.
The connection is now nearly unheard of, buried by time and modern religion. You may have inherited it by blood, or perhaps from a mentor trained in the old ways. You have no fear with the connection. You charge into a fight, standing strong as your god's avatar and unleashing their power against their enemies.
I'm considering adding a travel power. Maybe Shadow Walk. (Edit: Or not. Just reread Shadow Warrior for the first time in a while, and I don't want to inadvertently copy another ability. So far I've copied four. D: )
Last edited by traverse on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:20 pm

No Craft or Profession? Also, in Tome it's Disable Device, not Open Lock. Why does a lotta stuff that doesn't really make any use of sundowner require it? There's no anarchic damage type - you can make it "count as a chaotic-aligned weapon for the purpose of damage reduction", but I do know this still allows DR X/- to eat into the extra damage; you could simply phrase as "people struck by melee attacks take ... damage" - then it's a separate Su source of damage and not subject to DR. Heavy hands/dimensional anchor: perhaps allow designating people to not be affected? Dark star: note that the "move + damage" part's strictly inferior (by a lot) to Whirlwind; also, ignoring walls too? I think it's worth pointing, but not necessarily a problem, that when you get a second aura, it's center's still within the first. Phantom strings/persuasive oration: hell no to skill check-based CL - you're free to use Bluff ranks, though. Judgement: you mean they stop gaining HP from someone once they get Con x 3 (have in mind that temporary HP doesn't stack)? Subsistence: I think items should be possible to target, and both should suffer the same fate; and, you can't ever get rid of the copy again? Telepathic bond normally has a distance limit, so it can only work over coexistent planes, unless you get rid of it. Since the blacklit area extends merely from 10 to 20 feet, I think you'd better just make it 20 feet instead of asking for calculation. Leech: "a ranged touch"; as it goes from 4 x Cha to 6 x Cha, again you could IMO just make it 5 x Cha. Back from the brink: hilariously weak for this level - you might just make stabilization bring a heal effect along. Shadow revelry: I'd put a save, because it might well involve teleporting people into instant death. You and yours: might need wording fixing when you do something about the damage type. Time enough: a disavantage as a class feature (also, you didn't lose a level to true resurrection, which came online past level)? All hail: I'm not sure they did have that much distinction even before. And: I'm under the impression that it does hold its own in combat, but perhaps in a somewhat repetitive way, and I'm almost positive it lacks a bit of out-of-combat utility.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:45 pm

Thank you for those, I just applied 95% of them.
I'm a moran about the anarchic damage. I just changed it to negative for simplicity, it'll stay chaotic by fluff. Removed the asterisk from the myriad of abilities that didn't requite it. I was wantonly marking them, I guess. The SC has an improved telepathic bond spell that works over planar boundaries, I was going for that one.
Changed the copy and items business. Really, it's kind of cool. The incarnate can pick up anything, and then his copy can drop it in another location. Could create some interesting theft scenarios. I could fix that by saying that if one of them picks up the item, the other can't use it for a number of rounds, I suppose.
I'm not really sure what's detrimental about Time Enough. It give you options if no one resurrects you. That's not going to happen very often, but by 18th you're going for thematic, right? I've improved on it, though. Now he's like a poltergeist you can't hit or get to go away. Pretty chaotic.
On the copy and his viability. It's supposed to be a minion that has a slight gimp in the fact that you share HP, but you can never lose. Out of battle he acts as a second character with your abilities and skills. I'll add a bit more to All Hail, since the first part other than the Type change really is just ultra fluff.
Edit: And do walls count as rough terrain?
Last edited by traverse on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Bigode » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:22 pm

> traverse wrote:The SC has an improved telepathic bond spell that works over planar boundaries, I was going for that one.

I know. Problem is: the spell has a range limit in feet. That'd only make sense at all in coexistent planes like the ethereal. So you'd have, I guess, to say something like "has no range limit, working even across planar boundaries".

> traverse wrote:I could fix that by saying that if one of them picks up the item, the other can't use it for a number of rounds, I suppose.

I'm not sure there is anything needing fixing, to tell the truth - examples?

> traverse wrote:I'm not really sure what's detrimental about Time Enough.

Being unable to use objects? Also, "not interacting with matter or energy" could be read as "immune to the vast majority of damage types", I guess.

> traverse wrote:On the copy and his viability. It's supposed to be a minion that has a slight gimp in the fact that you share HP, but you can never lose.

Heh, I recalled one thing just now: when I suggested making the copy come earlier, the class still wasn't good at dealing damage. And since now it's around rogue level, something's gonna need change on it having a free copy - I guess now aphoric strike can be weakened, given that it's gonna be applied almost twice as often (I think).

> traverse wrote:Edit: And do walls count as rough terrain?

No. I was thinking about "going through enemies" as stuff in general, but it's just creatures, then.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:53 pm

> Bigode wrote:Heh, I recalled one thing just now: when I suggested making the copy come earlier, the class still wasn't good at dealing damage. And since now it's around rogue level, something's gonna need change on it having a free copy - I guess now aphoric strike can be weakened, given that it's gonna be applied almost twice as often (I think).

Yeah, I can drop that back down to every three levels. Or lower, if it needs it.

> Bigode wrote:I'm not sure there is anything needing fixing, to tell the truth - examples?

...It doesn't really. It would make you really popular with anyone needing to move a couch.

> Bigode wrote:Being unable to use objects? Also, "not interacting with matter or energy" could be read as "immune to the vast majority of damage types", I guess.

Well, he is still dead. He can't do a lot. It's like 'dead 2.improved'. He can't physically do anything, can't even touch the ground, can't use any abilities other than ordering people around or freezing them in their tracks. In return, no one can touch him. By "not interacting with matter or energy", I'm saying that works both ways. He can't be affected by any spell or power at all other than to resurrect him (though saying out loud makes me think I should update it to say that).
Last edited by traverse on Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:59 pm

> traverse wrote:...It doesn't really. It would make you really popular with anyone needing to move a couch.

> traverse wrote:Well, he is still dead. He can't do a lot. It's like 'dead 2.improved'. He can't physically do anything, can't even touch the ground, can't use any abilities other than ordering people around or freezing them in their tracks. In return, no one can touch him. By "not interacting with matter or energy", I'm saying that works both ways. He can't be affected by any spell or power at all other than to resurrect him (though saying out loud makes me think I should update it to say that).

Well, that's the problem: even with a huge immunity list, I'd still call it a disadvantage as a class feature just because of the huge list of tasks you can't handle.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:27 pm

Hm... well, at 9th level, if a Boneblade Reaper dies he has to go fight death; failing that he can only be brought back by True Res. Stranger with the Burning Eyes takes one year to come back, and he can't do anything during this time.
I think Time Enough has a bit of Tomes precedent. I just made it a bit weirder than normal. Edit: Maybe I could give him a way to come back after a certain amount of time, or by spending a lot of time on the Plane of Shadow or something? Hiding from the gods, power through osmosis, et cetera.
Last edited by traverse on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bigode » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:30 pm

> traverse wrote:Hm... well, at 9th level, if a Boneblade Reaper dies he has to go fight death; failing that he can only be brought back by True Res. Stranger with the Burning Eyes takes one year to come back, and he can't do anything during this time.
> I think Time Enough has a bit of Tomes precedent. I just made it a bit weirder than normal.

The resurrection part didn't matter for the reaper (and the authors said as much), and doesn't matter for the incarnate (BTW, I've been holding out on saying that name's already taken, but it's just me). Someone casts revivify/true resurrection every time you'd die, done. What matters' not being able to use stuff - that's crap.
Also: what was your problem in convincing people to play Tome?

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:44 pm

> Bigode wrote:(BTW, I've been holding out on saying that name's already taken, but it's just me)

Yeah, yeah. I know, it just fits so well! Manifesting stolen carnal energies into a partner in crime, it's like high-fiving a shark. I'll think of another name if it's annoying enough.

> Bigode wrote:Also: what was your problem in convincing people to play Tome?

I play with fun groups, but they've always looked at the Tomes as OP. Always tried to explain, but no official seal, no go.
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Post by Bigode » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:26 am

One idea for versatility might be to have distinct status effects for using negative energy. Heavy hands/dimensional anchor: they don't require tagging, so they might be screwing allies before that. Shouldn't the second aura be at least at any point in contact with the first, instead of having the center tied inside (in part for range purposes, but also because it feels, to me at least, like just widening the circle, despite obviously not being exactly that)? Judgement: the non-stacking's a rule already. Why not being able to unmake the copy? Leech: "a ranged touch" (typo). Faith healing: when I said "heal", I actually did mean "heal" - CCW stopped existing far ago, heal itself might be called obsolete by some (and indeed, this is almost the level where you could get mass heal instead), and merely needing to use it with the activation clause indicates a rather crappy situation. Time enough: well, tell me - is there a way to, once resurrected, get killed into the same status again? For posterity (i.e. my memory), dark star went unchanged.
On further reading, I suspect it also needs mobility powers. Where it might already be good's close range. And also, out-of-combat utility? I suppose you won't mind me looking around for some abilities, right? What if part of it was some partial spellcasting (not to say it's my primary plan)?

> traverse wrote:Yeah, yeah. I know, it just fits so well! Manifesting stolen carnal energies into a partner in crime, it's like high-fiving a shark.

> traverse wrote:I'll think of another name if it's annoying enough.

Annoyance shall be done already unless Calibron steps in (highly unlikely, to say the least, that he'd appear to complain about the name ), since nobody else even recognizes incarnum. Dammit.

> traverse wrote:I play with fun groups, but they've always looked at the Tomes as OP. Always tried to explain, but no official seal, no go.

Crap. Do you play spellcasters in their games?
Last edited by Bigode on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

> Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

> Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

> brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

> LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

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koz
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Post by koz » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:31 pm

> traverse wrote: I play with fun groups, but they've always looked at the Tomes as OP. Always tried to explain, but no official seal, no go.

To elaborate on what Bigode said, does your group understand wish-farming? Chain-binding? The innumerable ways in which casters can deconstruct a setting from inside out? Infinite wealth tricks? Heck, the idea of battlefield control, even? If they did, they wouldn't think the Tomes even close to OP.
Besides, don't take our word for it - actually try it. Seriously, it'll work, and so damn well, you'll never wanna play anything else again.
Everything I learned about DnD, I learned from Frank Trollman.

> Kaelik wrote:You are so full of Strawmen that I can only assume you actually shit actual straw.

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traverse
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Post by traverse » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:24 am

Wow, when I say lurker...
I figured, since I was happy to the group working on Tome material again, that I would update my class to what is in in my current docs. Especially since one of the projects is the Tome of Virtue.
This is still the Incarnate, but I put him through a sun cult redux, of sorts. I didn't want to base the class around light, originally, but couldn't get around how much it was stepping on Cielingcat's shadow warrior. Now it's kind of dancing with the fire mage, though (see; Daybreak and Searing Light [which is crazyawesome]). I like the idea of seeing some divine classes that don't fit into the traditional divine mode. I put together a basis and some ideas for a thematic antithesis to the Exultant a while back, but don't have a formal writeup for it.
So. Necrobump. I hope maybe this can get into the community material. Judge me harshly.
(You can see the previous writeup for the Incarnate here.)
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:59 am

I like it. I don't really have much to say about its balance (a hard class to eyeball), but it's an interesting concept and execution. The role of a melee attacker with medium BAB is a bit odd.
If I were trying to make a class based on the concept of 'stolen light of creation', I'd probably go with more spell-like laser attacks rather than making them weapon-based, but it's an interesting design choice. At higher levels you could throw in some major creation and fabrication type effects, if this guy really is supposed to be using the light of creation and the words of making.
Comet is definitely my favorite ability.
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Mount Flamethrower on rear
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:50 am

Based on a quick skim, I'd say this looks nice, but Phantom Strings should scale better. Give it a DC based on Character Level + Charisma instead of the spell's default.
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