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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:27 am

Strictly speaking, if played competently is there any way for Ermor to lose?
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:40 am

Oh yes, absolutely.
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Akula
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Post by Akula » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:11 am

My first test is on Wednesday. If no one else has gotten a turn in by then I'll try and do one that afternoon. I won't have time until then.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:57 am

> Zinegata wrote:Strictly speaking, if played competently is there any way for Ermor to lose?

Yes. Ermor makes a thousand troops a turn, but he makes a thousand shitty troops a turn. He lost eight hundred of them accomplishing almost nothing bouncing of a Pangaean army because of bad scripting. More importantly, he lost twenty mages, some of whom are only available on a 1/turn basis. Bad scripting in that fight was largely due to complex psyops by Pangaea to imply that that battle would be led by Gargoyle thugs who then went elsewhere while a different army with different thugs actually came to play. This left a bunch of powerful communion masters with scripted Oppositions, which then targeted carrion beasts for lack of available targets. That's right: spending actual fatigue to cast save-or-dies on freespawn to kill them one at a time. It wasn't super effective.
So Ermor's marching armies can be destroyed without accomplishing much of anything simply by getting psyched out or out scripted by a smaller faction. Ermor could straight up lose the war just against Pangaea if they don't get some better combined arms tactics. Their big advantage is having more battle mages and thugs and chaff than other factions, and none of those things win major battles without good scripting and tactics.
Perhaps more importantly still, there are still four other strong factions. Ermor is the strongest, but it isn't stronger than any two other factions combined. If Ermor went to war with Pangaea and Rlyeh simultaneously, or Mictlan and Vanheim simultaneously, they would be facing combined armies that had more thugs, more mages, and more quality troops. And while teamups of that sort would be restricted to showing up in two or more places at once, we're getting to the point where people can do the kind of Vengeful Skies sacrifice plays that make putting all your troops into one army undesirable.
Ermor makes troops that cost no upkeep and don't eat. Their troop advantage gets bigger and bigger every turn. But their research advantage has reached its nadir. They have everything they could want, and other factions are still researching. Which means that every turn, that gap is closing.
In order to win, Ermor has to tread a very careful line. If they convince one other faction to join forces and crush the world with them they'll be bigger than any other two-faction alliance. Ermor + Pangaea would be bigger than Mictlan + Rlyeh, for example. But if that got too obvious, they run the risk of facing an alliance of all three other powers - and the factions are too evenly matched for even Ermor + Vanheim to be bigger than Rlyeh + Pangaea + Mictlan.
It's still anyone's game. Ermor happens to be the most powerful faction right now, but that's a target on their head as much as it's a crown.
-Username17
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:58 am

Plus, Ermor makes a thousand undead troops a turn, and the number of "killing the fuck out of undead" spells is considerable. Wither Bones is a die, no save for his longdead cav.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:18 am

I should have Internet access for the remainder of today, but I'm going into unknown territory again after 11AM tomorrow. However, I did put together a turn file for Ermor in case nobody advanced the game. I shuffled some soldiers around and set everybody I could to Reanimate. There were a bunch of blue-wearing mages with Air magic, but I mainly just left them wherever they were sitting. Oh, and there were a bunch of water gems piled up, so I spent them on some summoning spells.
2h file linked below:
http://www.mediafire.com/?a33og8z5zozag3b
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:30 am

I'm running with it.
Turn is out.
Last edited by angelfromanotherpin on Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:59 am

Ermor is now in the lead for army size. I know most of that's chaff that will melt if my mages look at it funny, but damn.
Also, I am experiencing summoner's remorse.
Last edited by name_here on Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Avoraciopoctules
  Overlord
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:42 am

I haven't received a turn file, but you are probably better off with Akula next turn anyways, since I'm heading away from wi-fi in under 24 hours (and about to go to sleep anyways) and probably won't be back till around the time he's done with the tests that are currently keeping him busy.
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:02 pm

Turn was sent.

> Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.

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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:06 pm

> name_here wrote:Ermor is now in the lead for army size. I know most of that's chaff that will melt if my mages look at it funny, but damn.

Yeah, I wasn't kidding about the whole thousand troops a turn thing. If Ermor just turtles and makes troops for a few turns, he'll be able to bulldozer
the Pangaean expeditionary force with numbers alone. I don't really see anything I can do about that in the short term. Once five thousand Ermorians show up to ask us to leave, I doubt we'll have many options besides leaving.

> Also, I am experiencing summoner's remorse.

I don't know what that means in this instance.
Turn is in.
-Username17
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:40 pm

I have a cunning plan! Okay, so not really that cunning, but it might just work. However, I'm probably going to suddenly become very busy in just a short time, so you might have to figure out your own. Also, my cunning plan does not have a Tartarian sub-clause, and my tartarian plan is a work in progress.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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K
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Post by K » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:08 am

In.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:52 pm

Now back in an area with wi-fi again, and going to be here for at least 2 days.
If Akula is still busy, I could play a turn, but I'd need a turn file to do so.
Email: dom3pbemav@lavabit.com
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:53 pm

I'm going to be pretty busy until sunday, but i sent in this turn already.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:08 pm

> Avoraciopoctules wrote:Now back in an area with wi-fi again, and going to be here for at least 2 days.

Sent.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:04 am

Argh. Organized the files wrong, which made me have to do this turn twice. The first time, ending the turn reverted me to turn 40.
This turn, I found some more thaumaturgs researching and switched them over to skeleton production. Ermor has everything but blood researched fully, so it was a waste of points.
Discovered that the stuff I summoned has a use I didn't foresee, and I shuffled some soldiers around. Still haven't mustered the willpower to try scripting, equipping, or otherwise fiddling around with details on commanders. But if I'm the one taking Ermor's next turn, I'll try to some work on that front then.
http://www.mediafire.com/?6uev4ysj9eko714
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:30 am

UPDATE: I talked with Akula, and he indicated that "As long as I don't have to play another turn, I don't care what you do." I expect that I will be playing Ermor for the foreseeable future.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:58 am

Turn is out.
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name_here
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Post by name_here » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:12 am

Yeah, I was kind of afraid that was going to end in disaster.
Note to self: fire has an armor negating no save spell.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:15 pm

Turn here: http://www.mediafire.com/?doygai3nhtl2f6t
Moved soldiers around some more, including some that I think are going into battle. Summoned an Ivy King for 1 more point of magical diversity. Still have heaps of mages sitting around with Defend orders, but I did script evocation spam on the ones going into battle, +1 dedicated buff spell caster.
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:42 pm

turn sent

> Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.

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Akula
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Post by Akula » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:01 pm

> Avoraciopoctules wrote:Turn here: http://www.mediafire.com/?doygai3nhtl2f6t
> Moved soldiers around some more, including some that I think are going into battle. Summoned an Ivy King for 1 more point of magical diversity. Still have heaps of mages sitting around with Defend orders, but I did script evocation spam on the ones going into battle, +1 dedicated buff spell caster.

You have tartarians sitting around and waiting for GoR. You have a tart with n5 already. What "magic diversity" is this ivy king providing? Sounds like a bad idea IMO.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:04 am

Haha, you and your actually bothering to look at the magic on your commanders. It's cute.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:45 am

A thought:
Ermor has like 20+ research boosters sitting around that they don't need. Anybody else want them?
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