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Desdan_Mervolam
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### Are there any good modern-day fantasy games out there?

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Post by Desdan_Mervolam » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:55 pm

I used to be a big apologist for d20 Modern but a recent campaign I tried to run has forced me to admit that the game is just not that well written. A friend of mine has suggested I take the oWoD Storyteller system and use my own custom setting with it. My response to that is the only reason to play oWoD is the setting, Storyteller is no great shakes on its own.
So I'm in the market for a system. Is there another game out there that is good for running a modern-era kitchen-sink fantasy game? I want something that's pretty flexible, and I would prefer something that either has no explicit setting, or at least a setting that has a minimal impact on the mechanics so I can strip that out for my own stuff.
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Post by erik » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:46 pm

It would be handy to have a flow chart for rpg ruleset selection- going over whether you want combats with normals to be dangerous vs. not, long combats vs. short. Is magic open or covert? Magic as super powerful or just an alternate tool. Humans only or not? ...
I don't quite know off-hand exactly what one would expect out of a modern-era kitchen-sink fantasy game without further detail. Shadowrun sans hightech? D&D with smart phones?
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sabs
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Post by sabs » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:29 pm

When I do Modern Magic.. I use one of 3 systems.
1) Dresden Files RPG. It's.. okay. Though I think that the way they handle magic users is.. meh. Now, Dresden is basically formalized Magical Tea Party. But It has some great ideas. It's loosely tied to the Dresden books, but really you can mostly ignore that.
2) Ars Magica with some major character creation tweaks.
That's really my favorite for playing "Mage" from WW except better. You can also make Lycanthropes, vampires, etc.. but it takes a bit of work.
3) Nothing says, "I want a system with no ties to a setting" like Gurps.
When I do modern ars magica.. there's a couple of things I do.
1) I change seasons to months.
2) I increase the number of exp spendable on mundane skills.
3) I really flesh out the skill tree.
4) I allow companions to have 10 flaws/virtues just like Magi.
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Rawbeard
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Post by Rawbeard » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:39 pm

We used a cut down version of Shadowrun for a oWoD Setting once. Without Matrix, Implants and toned down magic. Worked ok, the high dicepools problem was managable, but annoying still. Worth a shot if you already know those rules anyway. Just stay out of vehicles
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Post by fectin » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:00 pm

Savage Worlds was decent enough to play. I think you could probably break it pretty easily; nothing jumped out as especially broken though. Agents of Oblivion is pulpy X-files action with the same system.
The Laundry is fun, but also uses the chaosium system.
I remember Stargate being okay, but only played once, eight years ago. It uses the spycraft system (sort of), which might also be okay, though I don't know.
I am currently reviewing a Doctor Who RPG, which, despite some truly flabbergasting design choices, looks like it wouldnt suck. You'd need to build your own character creation rules.
Hollow Earth is mad science in the 1930s (ish). Leagues of Adventure is exactly the same, in the 1890s (steampunk instead of pulp adventure). They're each pretty enjoyable, but have WW-style path-dependent XP cost (ie two identical characters can have different xp totals, because character creation). I've liked Leagues of Adventure.
I hear good things about In Nomine; but it reads a bit... French.
Everyone raves about Nobilis. It's stupid expensive though, and requires Borgstromancy. It may also not be what you're looking for.
BESM? I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, but I've heard stories from a BESM game set in chicago.
Star Wars d6 would be a trivial conversion: refluff the Force as magic, cross out the high-tech skills, and you're done.
As always, you could play Danger Patrol in any setting.
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Josh_Kablack
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Post by Josh_Kablack » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:59 pm

Well, the actual authors of d20 Modern couldn't answer "Why should I choose your system over Feng Shui or HERO?" when I asked them.
Feng Shui has a very easy learning curve, and is highly accessible to casual gamers - however it's pretty firmly wedded to action movie conventions and the game mechanics include a weird blend of setting specific sci-fi elements, so it's somewhat limited in the scope of games it can handle.
HERO (aka the better version of GURPS )has the opposite problem. It has a massive learning curve and is full of arcane mechanics , but it's meant to be universal (if a little tilted towards superheroics) and can theoretically handle any type of game if you set things up right and your group grasps it.
But overall, I think the most important questions for choosing a system are "Do I have a player group who already understands this system?" "If not, can they learn it easily enough?"
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Hicks
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Post by Hicks » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:27 pm

I would like to caution against HERO, after you make a 60 point Variable Power Pool (Cosmic, Incantations, Gestures, Obvious Accessible Focus (Magic Wand), Requires Skill Roll (Arcane)) the game gets pretty boring, as you can have 3~4 60 point abilities you can float around to break the game in half and duplicate the sthick of any other character. Think of anything, that character can do it, and a billion more things you can't even imagine. You just start playing on an entirely different level and leave everyone else with a multiplier or elemental control in the dust.
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Desdan_Mervolam
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Post by Desdan_Mervolam » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:17 pm

I own and actually like BESM (1e more than 2e), but that's a no-go. After we tried to do a Silver Age Sentinels game at least one member of my group wound up totally hating Tristat.
I'm considering GURPS because it's supposed to be really flexible and is definitely setting-agnostic. If nothing else, they have a stripped down free version available. It's really only good for looking at the system and seeing if you like it, but the price is right for that. It seems a little complicated, but it's entirely possible that the game looks more complicated than it is.
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Post by virgil » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:50 pm

I've had good experiences with M&M, which acts as a more approachable version of HERO. I've had a basic success with AWoD, but none of my players have liked the experience system. Shadowrun shows potential, but I won't know for certain until I get a few more sessions under my belt.
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mlangsdorf
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Post by mlangsdorf » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:32 pm

> Desdan_Mervolam wrote: I'm considering GURPS because it's supposed to be really flexible and is definitely setting-agnostic. If nothing else, they have a stripped down free version available. It's really only good for looking at the system and seeing if you like it, but the price is right for that. It seems a little complicated, but it's entirely possible that the game looks more complicated than it is.

If you decide to go with GURPS, you should look at the Monster Hunter PDFs, which provide character templates, GM advice, and sample enemies for running Buffy/Dresden Files/Supernatural/Vampire Hunter$ style games. The default templates are 400 point heavy hitters, but there's also a Sidekicks PDF that offers suggestions for lower powered characters and more mix-and-match templates.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:52 pm

I made a Shdaowrun/World of Darkness mashup system called After Sundown. It does modern horror for the most part.
I'm not really sure what you want the game to do. You mention Modern-Day Fantasy in the thread title, but not in the body of the text. Most of the discussion here seems to be about super heroes, which is generally a different genre.
Fundamentally, Modern Day Fantasy runs a gamut from stuff where the protagonists are superheroes who pass the bullet test to stuff where the protagonists are detectives of the occult who definitely don't. That core distinction is going to define what kind of game system you want to use much more than pretty much any other facet about your setting. When random thugs come into the room with guns drawn, whether the smart move is to put your hands up and allow yourself to be taken prisoner or start flinging magic fire from your hands is defined by the fundamentals of the system.
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kzt
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Post by kzt » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:20 pm

> Hicks wrote:I would like to caution against HERO, after you make a 60 point Variable Power Pool (Cosmic, Incantations, Gestures, Obvious Accessible Focus (Magic Wand), Requires Skill Roll (Arcane)) the game gets pretty boring, as you can have 3~4 60 point abilities you can float around to break the game in half and duplicate the sthick of any other character. Think of anything, that character can do it, and a billion more things you can't even imagine. You just start playing on an entirely different level and leave everyone else with a multiplier or elemental control in the dust.

You can build really, really powerful or completely ineffectual characters in HERO with the same point values. It's also easy to build totally one-dimensional characters that can only fight, which usually ends up sucking for everyone playing. There are reasons why the game provides warning about certain powers, and really strong warnings about other powers. It's also why GM approval of the character is essential. Max active points per attack, max OCV, max DCV, max defenses, min defenses and what powers are prohibited need to be clearly stated and need to be enforced.
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wotmaniac
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Post by wotmaniac » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:14 pm

> sabs wrote: 3) Nothing says, "I want a system with no ties to a setting" like Gurps.

Just choke yourself.
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hogarth
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Post by hogarth » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:54 pm

I second the votes for HERO or M&M. It's easy enough to create vampires, werewolves, magicians, etc. in both of those games.
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sabs
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Post by sabs » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:55 pm

I never said Gurps was /good/ I just said it was pretty setting non existant
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wotmaniac
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Post by wotmaniac » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:56 pm

> sabs wrote:I never said Gurps was /good/ I just said it was pretty setting non existant

touche
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:14 am

Mutants and Masterminds is pretty flexible, given that it's point buy fluffed with MTP that means something (ie, the difference between a fire blast and an electric blast is saying one is fire or electricity, but then that will mean things in the game), and has a supplement for D&D style stuff (though I don't know how necessary it is).
I've been looking through Spycraft 2.0 for Saints Row, and if you want a modern d20 game, for whatever reason, like your players are perversely averse to learning knew damned systems, it looks like it's pretty good. There's also a supplement for modern fantasy.
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Desdan_Mervolam
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Post by Desdan_Mervolam » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:48 am

Thanks for the replies, everyone.
So, I'm kinda wanting do do something like early Hellboy/BPRD stories, before the End of the World really got underway. Basically, the party goes somewhere where something weird is going on, and they usually find out that its weirder than they thought. I do want there to be a masquerade in place, which is a departure from the Hellboy universe.
I haven't decided the extent I want the party members to pass "The bullet test", but I do expect at least some members of the party to have supernatural abilites, through magic or psionics or even just some sort of mutation thing.
What I mean by "Kitchen Sink Modern Fantasy" is I want to be able to throw anything and everything that flits across my tiny little mind into the game if I can make it work, and I want the game to stand in my way as little as possible in that regard.
I want it to be flexible because I don't want to be constrained by established settings and metaplots or how anything works. I like how World of Darkness (At least the old one) will let you play a greek deathcultist, a mad scientist, a celtic blood-witch and a hippie who gets stoned until reality changes in the same group and the last thing you worry about in that group is how such disparate magic types appear in the same place. The difference is (As alluded to earlier) I don't want to run this in mage for a number of reasons.
I've considered BESM and Mutants and Masterminds, but those get discarded because I have party members who don't like those two.
I have never played Dresden, and I have no idea how much it ties to the setting. I hadn't even considered it because it's a license and license RPGS are usually shit. I might look into this if you guys say it's not bad.
I have had no experience with GURPS, but I have the freebie "GURPS Lite" book from the internet and am going to read it. Upon talking to my group, a few of them really reccommend it.
I have not considered HERO because it's supposed to be really complicated. Even Josh (Who I recall likes Hero) said as much in this very thread
I am burned way the fuck out on d20 period right now. Spycraft just won't cut it.
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kzt
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Post by kzt » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:13 am

> Desdan_Mervolam wrote: I have not considered HERO because it's supposed to be really complicated. Even Josh (Who I recall likes Hero) said as much in this very thread

I like HERO a lot. It's roughly as complex as Gurps overall. The combat rules are cleaner (compared to the old version of GURPS I've played, at least) but character creation can be a lot more complex.
However in the kind of game you are talking about you shouldn't have characters that can do the kind of crazy that a full blown superhero game ends up with. (For example, people just have weapons from the books, they don't build or buy them with points.) However it allows you to model monsters without going into MTP "mechanics" (as well as characters if needed).
The main issue I see with HERO combat is that it is slow in real time unless people know the game well, plus it's unrealistically fast in game time for the kind of game you are talking about. However gurps seems the same.
Mechanically firearms firearms are fairly deadly against unarmored normal humans in HERO. With pistols not using hit locations you can't get killed in one hit, with rifles etc you can on average survive one hit but can be reduced to negative body on a good roll. HERO offers multiple ideas on how to modify the mechanics to change this, either more or less deadly.
Last edited by kzt on Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:14 am

The Bullet Test is still going to be the most important question you need to answer before you can choose a system. After Sundown allows people to have essential immunity to regular bullets if they want it. GURPS supernaturals aren't likely to get that. Then you're going to want to pick your level of rules lightness/heaviality. FATE is very Rules Light, HERO is very rules heavy.
When you've decided on where on the spectrum you want to be on character bullet resistance and overall complexity, then you could focus in on Feng Shui or Munchhausen or whatever. But not before.
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Desdan_Mervolam
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Post by Desdan_Mervolam » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:24 am

Thanks. I will think that over. Looks like the options I have are pretty well laid out, it's just a matter of tracking copies down and checking them out.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:57 am

Oh, well if you want to do Hellboy/BPRD, I recommend GURPS, since you have players that know it, or are willing to play it, because there's actually a Hellboy supplement for GURPS.
I bought it when I was wanting to run BPRD, and it's a good resource, even if just for going over the major setting stuff and statting up the characters in such a way that you could easily translate them.
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wotmaniac
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Post by wotmaniac » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:59 am

> Desdan_Mervolam wrote:Thanks. I will think that over. Looks like the options I have are pretty well laid out, it's just a matter of tracking copies down and checking them out.

Here's some Fate/Fudge stuff:
http://www.fudgerpg.com/fudge-publishin ... -resources
http://www.evilhat.com/home/category/ou ... ing-games/
http://www.faterpg.com/resources/
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kzt
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Post by kzt » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:05 am

There is also a Monster Hunter International game based on HERO that should be out soon.
But I have to agree that if you have players who already know GURPS that it certainly makes sense to look to that first to see if it does what you want.
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Desdan_Mervolam
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Post by Desdan_Mervolam » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:10 am

> wotmaniac wrote: Here's some Fate/Fudge stuff:

I have played Fate, I hate the way it does skills.
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