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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:54 pm

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/0 ... -accounts/

> Under Modi’s plan, which he launched on Thursday, every household would get a bank account. The government is aiming to open an account for 75 million households by 2018 and to have two account holders in each. Tens of thousands have applied for an account since a speech unveiling the plan on August 15.
> Account holders would get a debit card, overdraft protection up to 5,000 rupees, or $83, and accident insurance of up to 100,000 rupees ($1,654).

This could be one of the biggest leftist coups in the history of the world or one of the biggest giveaways to the overclass that can be imagined. Depends on how they play their cards.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Laertes
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Post by Laertes » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:03 pm

Lago:
This is going to completely fuck the class of exploitative small businessmen who act as go-betweens between the finance industry and the people too poor to take part in it. This is, in my opinion, a good thing; I worked in finance long enough to realise that no matter how abusive the official finance industry is, the "casual" finance industry is vastly, vastly worse.
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erik
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Post by erik » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:59 pm

> Laertes wrote:Lago:
> This is going to completely fuck the class of exploitative small businessmen who act as go-betweens between the finance industry and the people too poor to take part in it. This is, in my opinion, a good thing; I worked in finance long enough to realise that no matter how abusive the official finance industry is, the "casual" finance industry is vastly, vastly worse.

Worse as in it preys upon those who can afford it least? That's likely.
Or worse as in magnitude of currency-affected? That's unlikely.
Because I'm pretty sure the giant finance industry that overleverages itself to absurd amounts and puts the world economy to the gun is the bigger magnitude of worst.
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Laertes
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Post by Laertes » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:05 pm

Worse as in directly worse for the individuals affected. Interests rates are vastly higher, and the consequences of non-payment are vastly more unpleasant.
I'm not an economist; I don't know the economic implications of bringing the savings and expenditures of a billion peasants into the global system. I'd be interested in hearing from an economist or a serious economics geek on the subject.
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erik
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Post by erik » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:09 pm

Okie doke, I'm on board. It sounds like India has its own horrible breed of payday loan/lenders and putting them out of business is a Good Thing™.
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:15 pm

> Laertes wrote:Worse as in directly worse for the individuals affected. Interests rates are vastly higher, and the consequences of non-payment are vastly more unpleasant.
> I'm not an economist; I don't know the economic implications of bringing the savings and expenditures of a billion peasants into the global system. I'd be interested in hearing from an economist or a serious economics geek on the subject.

Indeed. Title loans have interest rates of 300% on average, which then drop to a mere 150% after a few months. You can easily pay out thousands of dollars on a $500 loan and still owe the full amount.
Payday loans aren't any better. Rollover fees are typically 15% every two weeks, or 390% a year.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:00 am

> hyzmarca wrote:Payday loans aren't any better. Rollover fees are typically 15% every two weeks, or 390% a year.

Actually if that's compounded every two weeks (and I can't imagine it's not), 15% every two weeks is actually more like 3780% a year.
I'm pretty confident on that, but it's late and the cider is good so I'm less confident than I usually would be.
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Laertes
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Post by Laertes » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:13 am

1.15^26 = 37.86. The cider has made your maths strong.
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:35 pm

> momothefiddler wrote:

> > hyzmarca wrote:Payday loans aren't any better. Rollover fees are typically 15% every two weeks, or 390% a year.

> Actually if that's compounded every two weeks (and I can't imagine it's not), 15% every two weeks is actually more like 3780% a year.
> I'm pretty confident on that, but it's late and the cider is good so I'm less confident than I usually would be.

It's not compounded. You have to pay the rollover fee every two weeks. If you don't they take the full amount directly from your bank account (which you have to give them access to)., If you don't have the full amount in your bank account, of course, it bounces. Which is the problem.
People take payday loans to cover bills that they can't pay. So of course when payday rolls around they can't pay off the full loan so they roll it over. Repeat. They have to keep paying because their account is basically held hostage. And the loan company gets a steady stream of income from the fees.
It's about the same with title loans. My father spend years paying on a title loan, and ended up paying thousands of dollars in finance charges on a loan that was only a few hundred dollars.
The trick is that the interest is huge but the individual payments are more manageable than paying it off completely. So people keep paying to roll over the loan, again and again and again.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler » Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:08 pm

So it's not compounded because you don't have the option of not paying the interest every two weeks? Yikes.
But yeah, that makes it 390% I guess.
@Laertes, me: Yeah, but what I forgot was the initial amount - it's "only" 3686%, not 3786%
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hyzmarca
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Post by hyzmarca » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:26 pm

> momothefiddler wrote:So it's not compounded because you don't have the option of not paying the interest every two weeks? Yikes.
> But yeah, that makes it 390% I guess.

Hypothetically you can get a deferment that results in compounding the debt, if you ask. After all, they don't want you to default. But generally, yeah. The entire model relies on reliably collecting small fees. If you take out a $200 loan to pay your light bill, you probably won't be able to pay $230 in two weeks. But $30 isn't so large a burden. You can probably pay that.
Those companies make their money on people who only pay the minimum fees.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:27 pm

People living in the UK or who are familiar with British politics in general:
What's the deal with the Scottish independence vote? Is this a real movement with some teeth to it or is it a temporary reaction to the crappy economic policies of Parliament?

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:45 pm

The Scottish National Party, which campaigns on independence, won the Scottish parliament in a couple of recent elections, so one presumes it has some teeth. The crappy recent policies are just the most recent in a long list of reasons they have for going solo. They also picked up a lot of steam in the Thatcher years, for instance.
I've heard a hilarious rumor that they plan to make Sean Connery their titular monarch in thanks for all the support he's given the SNP over the years.
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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:42 pm

Shouldn't that be SIR Sean Connery, Knight of the british Empire? O.o
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:50 pm

Assuming that Scotland did become independent, wouldn't that just strengthen the hand of conservatives in the UK? You know, aside from the whole issue of David Cameron going down in history as the biggest Prime Minister fuckup since... well, ever.
And since conservatives have been shown to be nothing but enormous fuckups for the past several centuries, wouldn't/shouldn't that lead to Northern Ireland, the Wales, etc. becoming independent as well?

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:03 pm

Welcome to Europe Britain!
This is what we call balkanization.
Go on and try. Have a go at it.
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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Fwib
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Post by Fwib » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:36 pm

My favourite theory (which I think I heard/read somewhere, years ago) is that the Conservatives would immediately start splitting up into separate parties, which would do them no good, electorally.
I don't know how relevant the rise of UKIP is to this theory.
Last edited by Fwib on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Shatner
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Post by Shatner » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:47 pm

Not directly related to the Scotland conversation (re: politics leading up to it and the politics that would arise in its wake), but Paul Krugman weighs in on an economic side-effect of the split. The short version is, "using a currency you don't have political influence over is dangerous. See: the EU".
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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:59 pm

So . . wait . .
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukrain ... -pm-n81656
Russia is building a Wall in Ukraine to keep out the urkaine from the newly independent part of ukraine and . .
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/arti ... 06828.html
Ukraine starts building a wall to keep russia out of not newly independent ukraine? O.o
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

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name_here
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Post by name_here » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:26 pm

I think, but am not quite sure, that the first article was speaking metaphorically about division as opposed to a literal wall.
Also, Ukraine apparently still holds the border with Russia, even though the separatists hold a big chunk of the regions between Kiev and the border. I'm not altogether sure how that works logistically.

> DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.

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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:36 pm

Somewhere, in a Bus in the Ukraine:
"Morning Ivan, you on the way to our dayli border standoff as well?"
*Da Comrade, expektink to see you on other side of no-mans-land da?*
Last edited by Stahlseele on Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.

> Shrapnel wrote:

> > TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
> > Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.

Top

Mistborn
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Post by Mistborn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:22 pm

So it looks like Rob Ford has dropped out of the race. His antics will be missed by all of us who don't live in Toronto.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:24 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/sco ... o-campaign

> Rarely have I heard a prime minister sound so powerless. Big prime ministerial speeches - the ones they deliver at party conferences, or on setpiece Commons occasions, or when they have major policy to announce - are all about what the government will do, what levers of power it will tug, but this wasn’t like that at all. It was more like a plea - polite, well-crafted, but with a slight edge of desperation - from someone who realises that, as an English Tory three days after from the referendum, there is no longer anything he can do about a vote that could associate his premiership with the destruction of a 307-year-old union.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Occluded Sun
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Post by Occluded Sun » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:46 pm

Is there any reason the UK needs to remain associated with Scotland, other than "it looks bad if someone leaves"?
"Most men are of no more use in their lives but as machines for turning food into excrement." - Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci
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Shatner
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Post by Shatner » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:58 pm

Groundskeeper Willie talks about Scottish Independence.
That's no' a tattoo, it's a birthmark! -Willie
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