# The Gaming Den

Welcome to the Gaming Den.

Skip to content

## Using Oil for the Children: Take Two.

Mundane & Pointless Stuff I Must Share: The Off Topic Forum

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply

- Print view

46 posts

- 1
- 2
- Next

Psychic Robot
  Prince
  Posts: 4607
  Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

### Using Oil for the Children: Take Two.

- Quote

Post by Psychic Robot » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:44 am

Fact: Oil companies have billions of dollars of revenue.
Fact: Oil companies want to maintain billions of dollars of revenue.
Fact: Oil is a limited, non-renewable resource.
Fact: Oil companies will lose their revenue when there is no oil left.
CONCLUSION: Oil companies will radically alter their structure maintain revenue in the event of oil running out.
SPECULATION: Oil companies may already be investing in alternative energy to capitalize upon oil shortages in the future.
Now, let's talk about this again without "hurr durr kill the rich" and petty squabbling, mmkay?
Last edited by Psychic Robot on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

> Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.

> Ant wrote:

> > Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?

> You do not seem to do anything.

Top

Prak
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 17329
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Prak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:47 am

I was just reminded, for some reason, of a quote from thatfrakinideastealingcatkillingbastardassholeEdison:

> "I will make electricity so cheap, only the rich will burn candles!"

Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Count Arioch the 28th
  King
  Posts: 6172
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:49 am

My apologies for breaking the last thread.
As for speculation, I entirely agree. I don't doubt the oil companies probably have 5-6 different alternate energy plans in their belts already planning for the day this happens. I know Phillip-Morris already has patented packaging for "Marlboro Green" and has patented several strains of Cannibis sativa for the event it becomes legal to sell, I don't doubt oil companies probably are sitting on several ways to continue to make money.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
Top

Zinegata
  Prince
  Posts: 4071
  Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:33 am

###

- Quote

Post by Zinegata » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:51 am

The problem with oil really is that it's a necessity. Without oil, industrial civilization grinds to a halt. So one really can't live without the oil companies.
That being said, oil companies don't have their own armies and they can be regulated if the political will is present to do so. i.e. Make them subsidize alternate energy.
Last edited by Zinegata on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top

Prak
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 17329
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Prak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:03 am

don't we have some kind of synthetic material we could use in place of petrol based plastics and rubbers?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Count Arioch the 28th
  King
  Posts: 6172
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:06 am

I know we have synthetic-based lubricants, we used to use them on electric motors when I worked at the turd factory (Specifically, because they weren't flammable and were non-conductive when normal bearing grease was both.)
I am not sure about plastics and rubbers though. And honestly, I'm more worried about running out of plastic than running out of energy. (There are multiple energy sources. It would be a pain in the dick, but you can convert a diesel engine to run on vegetable oil, and use synthetic oil and lube to run the thing. It would suck, but at least big diesel tractors and farm equipment could still run, which means we'll have food.)
Plastic... is a big deal. Especially for medical reasons.
Last edited by Count Arioch the 28th on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
Top

Zinegata
  Prince
  Posts: 4071
  Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:33 am

###

- Quote

Post by Zinegata » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:09 am

> Prak_Anima wrote:don't we have some kind of synthetic material we could use in place of petrol based plastics and rubbers?

While they exist, there aren't a lot of people producing them yet because petrol-based ones are cheaper.
Also, uh, rubber comes from trees dude.
Top

Count Arioch the 28th
  King
  Posts: 6172
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:11 am

Rubber does come from trees, but plant-based rubber has issues. A lot of rubber is petrol based these days. We could go back, it'd just be inferior.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
Top

Orca
  Knight-Baron
  Posts: 877
  Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:31 am

###

- Quote

Post by Orca » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:03 am

People have looked at producing plastics from bacteria. Google "plastics producing bacteria" or something like that if you want details. Doable but not economic at the mo.
Top

Prak
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 17329
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Prak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:24 am

does that have anything to do with the clothing produced from bacteria?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Zinegata
  Prince
  Posts: 4071
  Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:33 am

###

- Quote

Post by Zinegata » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:30 am

Clothing from bacteria?
Fuck, why?
If you want organic clothes there's already something called "cotton"!
Top

Prak
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 17329
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Prak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:39 am

um, why not?
source
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Zinegata
  Prince
  Posts: 4071
  Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:33 am

###

- Quote

Post by Zinegata » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:43 am

You article has the same question as me:
"This may come as a surprise to some, but mankind is actually very, very good at growing clothing. We call it cotton. Through slightly less direct methods, we call it wool and silk. And if we're really scraping the barrel, feel free to sweep up the floor after my quarterly haircut. "
Top

Prak
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 17329
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Prak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:45 am

Yeah, I know. I think it's a "because we can" deal.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Zinegata
  Prince
  Posts: 4071
  Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:33 am

###

- Quote

Post by Zinegata » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:59 am

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Anyway, about plastics... the best tech for sustainable plastic use isn't to use bacteria. It's to recycle. Damn thing lasts near-forever anyway.
Top

violence in the media
  Duke
  Posts: 1723
  Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:18 pm

###

- Quote

Post by violence in the media » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:51 am

We could pursue the plastic from trees angle.
Top

Zinegata
  Prince
  Posts: 4071
  Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:33 am

###

- Quote

Post by Zinegata » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:57 am

Awesome
Top

Crissa
  King
  Posts: 6720
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Santa Cruz

###

- Quote

Post by Crissa » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm

Bamboo clothing has the same properties as poly, but can be used like cotton. Unlike cotton, it doesn't take as much fuel or water to farm (cotton is a really tough plant to farm - consumes many nutrients and needs massive amounts of water), but it does take more energy to process.
Still, the amount of money that BP has invested in alternative energy was (four years ago) the most of any oil company, they had the biggest windfarm investment... And it's also less than the cost of one deepwater drilling operation.
-Crissa
Top

K
  King
  Posts: 6487
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by K » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:58 pm

You can make plastics out of corn. No BS. I read an article about some guy in Japan that made CDs out of it.
Basically, we can make alternatives to oil. They just cost more than oil.
Oil comes out of the fucking ground. All you have to do is drill a hole and a hundred million gallons a month come gushing out under its own power. The economics of producing a million gallons of something vs getting a million gallons virtually for free are never going fall on the side of producing, so oil companies are going to keep pushing the use of oil.
Also, remember that in capitalism, scarity drives prices, so the decline of oil in the ground means the oil companies can make record profits during that decline, so don't expect serious investment in oil alternatives for another 50 years.
Top

Crissa
  King
  Posts: 6720
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Santa Cruz

###

- Quote

Post by Crissa » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:45 pm

Actually, I havein my house now: Plastic made for soy, corn, or potatoes. Plastic that biodegrades, is waterproof but not gas tight - perfect for storing vegetables in, and can be tossed straight into the compost heap. Plastic that is 99% recyclable.
However, most of the plastics in my house are still made from oil sources. And probably will be for a long time.
But we really need to get away from burning plastics and letting the Carbon escape into the atmosphere. We're changing the actual composition of the air we breath and the seas. That's a huge portion of our biosphere! And we're changing it not as a rounding error, but noticeably.
-Crissa
Top

PoliteNewb
  Duke
  Posts: 1053
  Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:23 am
  Location: Alaska
  Contact:
  Contact PoliteNewb
  Website

###

- Quote

Post by PoliteNewb » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:11 pm

Re: corn-based plastics...even if we can, should we?
I'm reading Michael Pollan right now ("Omnivore's Dilemma"), and he points out that industrial agricultural corn requires sizeable amounts of petroleum...fuel for farm machinery, petrochemical fertilizer, etc. So is using corn instead of just using oil a net reduction in petroleum use? How 'bout net energy use? How 'bout the other environmental impacts of growing corn on the scale we currently do?
I have no idea about answers, just wanted to ask the question.
Top

Prak
  Serious Badass
  Posts: 17329
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

###

- Quote

Post by Prak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:16 pm

well, we're getting to the point where we'll need to replace petrol plastics with something. If we can find a way to produce plastics raw materials as a side effect of something else, so much the better, like, if we can find something we already produce, and part of the process is a waste product that we find out can be turned into plastic, that'd be great.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.

> Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.

> FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
> You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.

Top

Crissa
  King
  Posts: 6720
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Santa Cruz

###

- Quote

Post by Crissa » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:16 pm

It's possible to grow corn industrially without the petrochemicals. That's not how it's being done, but it's possible. Like switchgrass and sugarcane, it only needs sand, air, and water to grow. It's incredibly efficient as a plant. It's just how we do things which isn't efficient for energy production.
For plastics production, it's fine.
This is why it's important for subsidies not to exist and instead have Pigovian laws. Subsidies should be for investment, not for production.
-Crissa
Top

Zinegata
  Prince
  Posts: 4071
  Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:33 am

###

- Quote

Post by Zinegata » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:55 am

Plant-based plastics are awesome. Ideas like other plant-based clothing material are stupid because again, we already have fucking cotton.
Top

Maj
  Prince
  Posts: 4705
  Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
  Location: Shelton, Washington, USA

###

- Quote

Post by Maj » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:42 am

> PoliteNewb wrote:I'm reading Michael Pollan right now ("Omnivore's Dilemma"), and he points out that industrial agricultural corn requires sizeable amounts of petroleum...fuel for farm machinery, petrochemical fertilizer, etc. So is using corn instead of just using oil a net reduction in petroleum use? How 'bout net energy use? How 'bout the other environmental impacts of growing corn on the scale we currently do?
> I have no idea about answers, just wanted to ask the question.

Hence my question in the first thread. Monocrop agriculture is petroleum based. Without oil, we're going to have to radically rethink farming.
I don't that's really going to happen, though, until the price of food begins to escalate in proportion with increased oil costs. Then there'll be massive starvation until we can figure out a solution (if we can figure out a solution). If we can't... Then a lot of people are going to go hungry.
Top
Post Reply

- Print view

Display:
Sort by:
Direction:

46 posts

- 1
- 2
- Next

Return to “MPSIMS”

Jump to

- Main
- ↳ About the Gaming Den
- ↳ In My Humble Opinion...
- ↳ I Gave the Mouse a Cookie...
- ↳ In The Trenches
- ↳ It's My Own Invention...
- ↳ MPSIMS