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sabs
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Post by sabs » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:45 pm

You do know that 1500 children die each year in the US from Neglect and Abuse. That's more than Terrorists kill world wide.
It would be awesome if Israel would stop shooting into protesters and would stop pushing the settlements and turning a blind eye when Settlers shoot Palestinians. I totally agree. It would also be nice if the Palestinians would stop shooting rockets, using suicide bombers, and murdering people in their homes.
Neither side is without blame, but that in no way excuses calling a group of men who murdered a family in their sleep, "heroes"
Saying its' ok to ignore that, because Israel's policies are anti-arab, is like saying the IRA wouldn't have been so bad if it hadn't been for the damn Brits.
How many children does the US kill in Iraq?
How many Aboriginies did Australia kill? Is it okay for them to come murder your family in their sleep?
It's like 9/11. Anyone with half a brain knew that the US Foreign Policies were fermenting that kind of hatred world wide. The US's policies of Oil before People and Stop Communism at any cost, both directly led to the 9/11 Attacks. That in no way means that those attacks were justified, or that people should not feel outrage over them.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:48 pm

The bottom line is that as of the turn of the millennium, there were 520,000 murders in the year. The murder of five people in one place or another isn't worth having an international incident over. It's not a great tragedy or even especially surprising. The murder of five people happens three times a day.
So until your local murder rate becomes so high that it becomes a significant cause of death (like in Ciudad Juarez), I don't see how it warrants discussion at all. Except from a social engineering standpoint. Obviously, looking at areas with a low murder rate like Norway and attempting to emulate their social engineering systems has value. Similarly looking at areas with a very high murder rate like Columbia and attempting to not make their mistakes also makes sense.
But getting your panties in a knot because the murder rate in Israel is almost half of the murder rate of the United States, but that five of this year's murders happened to come on the same day is clinically retarded. Seriously, that is an actual work week worth of homicides for Los Angeles. And by a work week, I just mean Monday to Friday, on literally any week of the whole year for that city alone. It's five dead people, and asking national politicians to have opinions about it at all is an obvious distraction.
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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:25 pm

> sabs wrote:Saying its' ok to ignore that, because Israel's policies are anti-arab, is like saying the IRA wouldn't have been so bad if it hadn't been for the damn Brits.

So? You want to go on a comdemning spree and fall for distractions and obfuscation by the pro Israelis.
Again. What part of that actually gets us anywhere?
Condemning the only war criminals we can actually identify, and who might I add unlike the terrorists are not actually already on the run from the law anyway and doing so in, oh say, actual International Court, THAT might actually save actual lives.
What the FUCK do you expect to get out of condemning some random terrorist dudes no one can identify and catch and who aren't part of a legitimized regime who's policies are of murder and oppression?
I laid down the question, what IS your alternative to condemning the Israelis that gets us ANYWHERE practical?
And how in fuck does random condemning distractions of random criminals already on the run from the law fit into your genius plan?
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Draco_Argentum
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Post by Draco_Argentum » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:25 am

The celebrations are the problem. The killing won't stop until both sides want it to. Celebrating murderers is the Palestinian's stand in for voting for them like the Israeli's do.
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Post by PhoneLobster » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:18 am

Except that the ACTUAL leadership have repeatedly offered peace in peace negotiations with Israel. They have done so on terms INCREDIBLY favourable to Israel. And Israel repeatedly rejected chances to end the violence and actively undermined it with actual policy of attacks and settlements used specifically to end peace talks.
On multiple occasions.
Over YEARS.
Including very recently.
Entire REGIMES have been overthrown on the Palestinian side, BECAUSE they were dedicated to peace and the Israelis undermined them on that issue.
Did you blink and miss it or were you not paying attention?
There is ONE side holding up the peace process at every turn. And it is Israel. Terrorists are just a side effect of the struggle and will only ever end by bringing peace to the region. And celebration in the streets? Firstly a frequently misrepresented and misreported event, it HAS been faked before by American conservative media so I sure as hell am taking reports with a grain of salt, and secondly WHO THE FUCK CARES?
I care more about ending the violence and getting your knickers in a knot is exactly what the actual people actually capable of preventing the violence WANT you to waste your time and attention on instead of them.
So ONE MORE TIME.
In what imaginary plan for peace in the middle east do you fit your "condemn random arabs" scheme? What part of your plan for peace in the middle east doesn't revolve first and foremost around bitch slapping Israel's leaders into international court for crimes against humanity?
Tell us your genius "well clearly the massively oppressed and chaotic mess of broken backed feuding rebel factions needs to be found equally accountable!" Plan ACTUALLY works?
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sabs
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Post by sabs » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 pm

My plan is telling Israel to stop opening up Settlements, or they can kiss their US Aid dollars good bye. Make it clear to Israel that we're all for a Jewish State, but that the shit has to stop. We've given them money for 60 years. If they want it for another 60 years, what with these budget crisis.. they should play ball and stop being dicks.
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Post by PhoneLobster » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:54 pm

What about the already stollen land? The countless displaced refugees? The Israeli blockade of basic goods and services including medicine? The Israeli army's long standing tendency to "purely accidentally" kill women and children and other innocent civilians on a regular basis and get away with it, or the regular government led military strikes on civilian areas and targets with little or no excuse? What about all the known Israeli war criminals sitting right there, getting away with it, day after day? The guys who attacked that humanitarian aid flotilla for instance?
I mean clearly your plan does seem to be the only sensible one. "Stop the Israelis". And I note condemning random already on the run criminals isn't really part of it. But it's rather incomplete. The settlements don't just need to stop expanding. They need to be rolled the fuck back. Along with a lot of other shit that has been pulled.
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sabs
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Post by sabs » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:03 pm

You mean the Humanitarian Aid Flotilla that had guns on it, that attacked THEM when they went to inspect it?
That Humanitarian Aid Flotilla?
Stop painting the Palestinians as defenseless sheep who never do anything wrong. There's plenty of stupidity to go around.
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Post by PhoneLobster » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:25 pm

> sabs wrote:You mean the Humanitarian Aid Flotilla that had guns on it, that attacked THEM when they went to inspect it?

Oh, I see, you actually not only don't know anything but instead actively know things that aren't even true.
Well. No helping you then. Your a clearly a fucking idiot.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:01 am

PL, stop being an idiot. It's tiring to see the pro-Palestinian side be constantly represented by morons who stick their heads in the sand whenever the Israelis legitimately point out the Palestinians and their supporters are very often assholes too.
Both sides are assholes in this conflict. That's a simple fact. I don't give a shit about each side's excuses.
So stop making fucking excuses for shitty behavior on the Palestinian side and then dismissing excuses for shitty behavior on the Israeli side. You're just showing you're a partisan ass with no objectivity.
It is a very real fact that the Palestinians are living in a shitty situation, because they're in legal limbo thanks to Israel occupying their lands.
However, it's also a very real fact that the last time the Israelis elected a government who makes real moves for peace, the Palestinians started stepping up their suicide bomber campaigns.
There are people on the Palestinian side who don't want peace. Because hatred of Israel is the only thing that gives them power and credibility among the Palestinian people. Because they're shitheads who know how to blow up trains, but don't want to take on the much harder task of actual governance and make trains run on fucking time.
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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:20 am

Stop being an idiot? Stop being partisan? Someone just repeated FLAT OUT some very very well known complete and utter disinformation about Israel's attack on a unarmed humanitarian aid flotilla.
And again. Those people on the "Palestinian side" that are using acts of violence? Their acts of violence are smaller in scale, not readily preventable, already being fought against in an attempt to prevent them with every resource available, and those guys? Those guys are hunted criminals who will be shot on sight, probably with some pretty heavy artillery with no particular care for how many arab civilians get killed around them in the process.
That is NOT equivalent to where the KNOWN and EASILY HELD ACCOUNTABLE Israeli war criminals sit. This is NOT an "each side is equally at fault" scenario, this is NOT an "each side is already held accountable" scenario, this is NOT even a "each side ISN'T held accountable" scenario. The arab terrorists ARE already held accountable, they ARE already condemned (to death no less). The Israeli ones get positions of wealth and power and the ability to live out in the open as major public figures.
The second you say we need to pile on MORE condemnation onto mad men that ALREADY have a bounty on their heads rather than do one damn thing about the mad men that DON'T then YOU are being the one who is blatantly biased.
Especially if you believe the Israeli lies about the flotilla thing. That just makes you a total fucking idiot. NO ONE believes that shit. Well, outside of murderous Israelis...
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:45 am

> PhoneLobster wrote:Stop being an idiot? Stop being partisan? Someone just repeated FLAT OUT some very very well known complete and utter disinformation about Israel's attack on a unarmed humanitarian aid flotilla.

First of all, you're a fucking shithead for focusing on only one issue, when sabs is in fact alking about multiple possibilities for actual peace in the Middle East. Like stop building more settlements in the disputed territories or else the Israelis will lose US support. Which some Israeli prime ministers have in fact pursued even WITHOUT the threat of losing US support.
But no... you want to be a shithead and go "HUrr DUrr! Israelis are evil!"
Stop being a fucking baby. This is a complicated problem that needs a mature solution. Not some fucktard's whinings on the Internet.
Moreover, Sabs is not misrepresenting the "humanitarian" flotilla in any way or form. One of the ships in the flotilla did in fact attack the Israeli soldiers who tried to board their ships. You can question the legality of the Israeli boarding. But pretending that those "humanitarians" didn't attack the Israelis is patently insane.
Seriously, look at the entire footage and not just the editted version that Al Jazeera put out - which doesn't show the initial minutes of the boarding wherein a group of the "humanitarians" immediately gang-banged the Israeli soldiers.
The only part that sabs got wrong is that the flotilla had guns. They didn't. Even the Israeli accounts say the guns were stolen from their guys who were beaten up within seconds of boarding.
But seriously, you're dismissing an entire possible solution to peace in the Middle East in favor of more Hurr DUrr Israel is evil? Fuck that noise.

> Especially if you believe the Israeli lies about the flotilla thing. That just makes you a total fucking idiot. NO ONE believes that shit. Well, outside of murderous Israelis...

See, there you go again. Calling them "murderous Israelis". Which does little except paint the Palestinian cause as a bunch of fucktards who aren't interested in peace, but the destruction of the state of Israel.
Great job. And people wonder why most people in the world don't give a shit about Palestine.
You cannot go on claiming that Israelies are "murderous" assholes when you also constantly get bullshit from the Palestinian side like suicide bombers or cutting up an entire family. Not to mention the fact the Palestinians are technically in the middle of an internal civil war between one side who wants a two-state solution, and another that wants to kill all the Israelis.
There is no moral high ground in this Middle East bullshit. There is zero sympathy to be earned just because you kill innocent kids with a knife instead of a smart bomb.
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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:49 am

> Zinegata wrote:One of the ships in the flotilla did in fact attack the Israeli soldiers who tried to board their ships.

Whooops, you just showed you are an idiot WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE FACTS. And is happy to misrepresent them.

> Seriously, look at the entire footage and not just the editted version that Al Jazeera put out

DOUBLE Whoops, it was the Israeli government that was caught out publishing editted footage AND edited audio of the events that pushed their FALSE story about their innocent armed men dropping form helicopters while firing as being "attacked".

> Even the Israeli accounts say the guns were stolen from their guys who were beaten up within seconds of boarding.

ALSO WRONG. The Israelis only switched to that story after being caught out.

> Israel is evil? Fuck that noise.

Facts are facts, if you actually followed the situation instead of regurgitating KNOWN lies as you just have done about the flotilla just now, then MAYBE you might be aware of really how GENUINELY evil the Israeli government is. And pointing at OTHER evil that unlike the Israelis IS being fought is NOT an excuse, and yet here you are USING IT AS ONE.

> Calling them "murderous Israelis".

They murdered. People. Unarmed ones. On a flottilla full of emergency humanitarian aid. In international waters. That's murder. Therefore murderous. It is perfectly valid to call them that and from a man whining endlessly about how we should be condemning the murderous fuckers on the "other side" It is PARTICULARLY telling that you get your knickers in a knot when someone you know, uses language to condemn the Israelis and their government sanctioned murders.

> in the middle of an internal civil war between one side who wants a two-state solution, and another that wants to kill all the Israelis.

Were you born yesterday? ISRAEL CREATED THAT CIVIL WAR. The moderates HAD CONTROL, they OFFERED PEACE, Israel undermined them, and the peace process, they rejected peace and bombed the crap out of the Palestinians until the radicals gained power.
It's pretty straight up cause and effect and if you weren't an idiot swallowing false propaganda wholesale and regurgitating it freely you might actually have NOTICED when that happened, it wasn't that long ago...

> There is no moral high ground in this Middle East bullshit.

And yet apparently whatever the Israelis do, including dropping armed men firing on unarmed aid workers and volunteers on an international humanitarian aid vessel is ALWAYS "self defense" and we shouldn't apparently "call them murderous".
Uhuh. OK you are just a stupid shit and an Israeli shill. Got it. I can stop clicking through the Ignore on you, you are as incredibly thick headed as ever.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:24 am

> PhoneLobster wrote:And yet apparently whatever the Israelis do, including dropping armed men firing on unarmed aid workers and volunteers on an international humanitarian aid vessel is ALWAYS "self defense" and we shouldn't apparently "call them murderous".

First of all, you are still a shithead for going around in circles about this particular issue, when again the bigger point is that assholes like you have no fucking place in a mature discussion. Sabs again gave pretty reasonable suggestions. You go HURR DURR ISRAEL EVIL. Shut the hell up and spare us your fuckheadedness.
Secondly, nobody ever claimed it was self defense. Not me, nor sabs. What I did say was that the "humanitarian" workers attacked the Israelis.
So you are a lying shit. Because again, the videos - if watched end to end without edits - clearly shows "humanitarian" workers attacking the Israelis. They were not "unarmed". They were carrying weapons. Unless you want to claim you cannot beaten to death with a big stick.
Moreover, the BBC - a network well-known for revealing Israeli crimes against Palestinians - even goes as far as to claim the attack by the "aid workers" was premeditated, after they examined ALL of the videos from both sides:
http://www.jpost.com/LandedPages/PrintA ... ?id=185381
So remember my claim all those months ago that this was just a Turkish plot to create a crisis? The BBC says I am actually right, after examining all the evidence and interviewing people from both sides. (Although Free Gaza then claimed their people weren't interviewed at all, which was then refuted when the BBC showed their interviews with the Free Gaza folks - so much for Israel having a monopoly of lies!)
But hey, why let facts get in the way of wild and unsubstantiated accusations and rumor mongering, right?
Again, the Palestinian cause is consistently undermined because of shitheads like you who like to pretend that the Palestinians are consistently blameless. It's not true. The world knows it's not true. And until the Palestinians start reigning in their own shitheads (like those Free Gaza shitheads who were laughed at when they complained that the fucking BBC was mean to them) this is NEVER gonna get resolved.
There's no fucking difference between killing a family with a knife or a smart bomb. Until the Palestinians start owning to the fact that they also have to police their shitheads, the world at large will simply look at Palestine's plight, shrug, and say "You fucking deserve it, for supporting baby-killers"
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Post by Draco_Argentum » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:25 am

> PhoneLobster wrote:There is ONE side holding up the peace process at every turn. And it is Israel. Terrorists are just a side effect of the struggle and will only ever end by bringing peace to the region. And celebration in the streets? Firstly a frequently misrepresented and misreported event, it HAS been faked before by American conservative media so I sure as hell am taking reports with a grain of salt, and secondly WHO THE FUCK CARES?

For a start you didn't bother to prove this was false reporting so I assume you can't and just decided to try cloud the issue.
Who cares? Until there is a legitimate Palestinian government that doesn't want to shoot at Israel and a legitimate Israeli government that doesn't want to shoot at Palestine there will be no peace. Neither of those can be created until public support for continued violence drops low enough that a government supporting it is rejected by its own people. Public displays of support for killing retard that.
Since you seem to think I need to provide a solution its really fucking easy. The US fucks off. Without their backing Israel and the Israelis have to act like a nation rather than a child who can cry to mummy when the other kids are mean.
Only problem is the Israeli nukes, there might be someone in charge who is actually a big enough fuckwit that they'd rather nuke everything than live in peace.
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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:42 am

Fuck you and all your lies and misdirection.
You bare faced linked an Israeli paper.
A simple search for the actual documentary name quickly shows... it was full of falsehoods, regurgitated straight from Israeli propaganda.

> In one of its more bizarre passages Panorama accused the flotilla of being “political”, rather than being serious about delivering aid. As if there was a distinction between the two in the case of Gaza.

It WAS political, but apparently Israel's response to "political" is to shoot dead nine civilian humanitarian aid volunteers.
Because you know how DARE they provoke with political pressure against a blockade that is leading to the death and missery of, among other people, countless actual children.

> The only footage shown was provided by the Israeli military (IDF) —after all, it had confiscated all cameras from the convoy.

Odd really that working so close with the oh so co-operative Israeli military that they didn't give the documentary maker any of that footage, I mean they must be slapping themselves, "Whoops! What an oversight!"

> Activists were shown sawing metal railings from the boat as the IDF approached. This was [u[apparently evidence that the flotilla had planned the violence—rather than evidence that desperate people look for any way to defend themselves.[/u]

What fantastic premeditate plan they had there... what with having to dissassemble their boat to find mere clubs with which to defend themselves against guns and live rounds...

> Immediately after the attack the IDF said that its soldiers had been shot, though it soon had to withdraw this allegation. It released a recording it claimed was broadcast from the flotilla, telling the Israelis, “Shut up, go back to Auschwitz.”
> The IDF soon backed off, admitting that the recording had been doctored. But both these allegations were included in the “evidence” presented by Panorama.

Oh look, known unadulterated admitted lies repeated as if they were true, why is that familiar? Who does that remind me of?

> We also see some prepare for the coming assault by arming themselves with makeshift bars cut from the ship.
> All this has previously been verified by other pro-flotilla film and testament. There was relative resistance. Some made rhetorical speeches. We know this. So what?
> This was a mission, after all, motivated by sincere attempts to end the murder, starvation and suffering of Gaza. Yet, Corbin takes this footage as clear proof of the activists’ ‘violent priorities’, their principal agenda, amplifying Israel’s much-vaunted message that the flotilla was not a humanitarian enterprise but a terrorist-sponsored plot.
> At no point does she consider the context of rightful resistance to Israel’s pirate-like conduct on the high seas. The entire thrust of the report is to suggest that the activists should have behaved ‘responsibly’ and allowed the commandos to do their ‘peaceful duty’.

Do their "peaceful duty" dropping masked and armored from helicopters in the night while firing on passengers.

> Nor is the firing of live rounds by the commandos fully addressed. Instead, we’re told, they were only reacting to the activists’ provocations, an ‘unexpected resistance’ not reckoned with due to “poor intelligence.”
> Corbin, of course, ignores all the other evidence showing that the political and military pre-planning for this operation had explicitly urged the use of violent force.

Oh those provocative aid workers floating there, with their supplies, they were just ASKING to be raided by helicopter dropped commandos firing live ammunitions.

> Corbin also asks the IHH leader why what he claimed as “passive resistance” looks like outright fighting. But there’s never any suggestion to the interviewed commandos that they have been involved in a violent, illegal attack culminating in the murder of nine people. Indeed, quite incredibly, the actual killings of the nine are never closely examined in this film.

That would after all be anti Israeli bias...

> Corbin talks of the stun grenades thrown back onto the Israeli boats, but not the fact that they had been thrown onto the Marmara in the first place.

Those provocative aid workers, MAKING the Israelis throw stun grenades at them just so they could attack Israelis by throwing them back!. Fucking pro-Palestine telepathic terrorist mind controllers!
So yeah. Your report was biased as all bullshit and beyond. Unsurprising considering the site you found and linked promoting it. It took me all of 5 seconds searching for the documentary name to find these quotes, it took longer to cut and paste them all.
And that last one is VERY much the theme of YOUR position in this matter and your support for the Israeli murderers that killed 9 aid volunteers on that boat. "How dare they fight (back) at the Israelis! That is SO much worse than the Israelis mere acts of justifiable preemptive self defense!"
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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:53 am

> Draco_Argentum wrote:Until there is a legitimate Palestinian government that doesn't want to shoot at Israel and a legitimate Israeli government that doesn't want to shoot at Palestine there will be no peace.

Both of those things have happened. The only real pro peace Israeli leader in my life time was assassinated and ultimately replaced by the same right wing pro war factions that killed him.
The pro peace Palestinian Authority that that man helped create was then destroyed by the (literal) attacks of the right wing Israeli government.
Note that at no point there was it the Palestinians who threw away and violently overthrew any leadership working towards peace. It was Israel. It's always fucking Israel.
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:44 am

I laugh at PL's attempt to dismiss my links just because it's an "Israeli" paper. News flash PL: I specifically linked an Israeli paper to show how your lameass Free Gaza folks WHINE about a documentary made by someone who's actuall credible - the BBC.
Again, a documentary not made by an Israeli paper - but by the fucking BBC. Try to lie your way out of that one again, bitch.
And I doubly laugh at PL's lame attempts to discredit a BBC documentary by regurgitating lies said by the Free Gaza folks.
You know, the Free Gaza people who lied saying they were never interviewed in the documentary... when they in fact were.
Moreover, let's see what the Free Gaza "Aid worker"s are complaining about:
http://www.redress.cc/global/kokeefe20100819

> If you haven’t already seen it, check out BBC Panorama’s “Death in the Med” programme and you’ll be treated to first class propaganda as only the BBC can deliver.

Oh, look, they call the documentary propaganda! Yet when you get pass his hate-filled idiotic rant, you get a bunch of bullet points on what they say should be in the documentary. Which includes...

> • Why did the presenter, Jane Corbin, not mention the bombs, rockets and white phosphorus dropped on Gaza by Israel during Operation Cast Lead over a three-week period in 2008-09, killing 1,400 people? She did, however, mention the "thousands of rockets" fired from Gaza into Israel, but did not say over what time period.

Yeah, these fucktards are seriously complaining that the BBC produced a piece of propaganda... because they refused to include a piece of anti-Israel propaganda in it. Seriously, what the fuck does Israel's alleged use of white phosphor have anything to do with the Gaza flotilla attacks?
The fact of the matter is this: A well respected news agency (which has been banned by the Israelis during the Israeli-Lebanon war for its alleged anti-Israel bias) produces a piece saying that the supposed "peace activists" were, in fact, planning to attack the boarding party to spark and international incident.
The activists start whining because they were caught. And make up bullshit arguments.
But hey, anything that goes against an Ostritch-Head's views must be false! Zine can't be wrong, because it would prove that PL has been a shit head.
Fuck you. I don't need to justify myself to you. Because your actions again, do not help the Palestinians. Because all you're doing is to show that they're represented by hate-filled loonies.
PL deciding to side with the Palestinians is like Glenn Beck deciding to side with the Palestinians. It doesn't fucking help.
-------
Meanwhile, in much more recent news:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/afric ... tml?hpt=T1
I thought the Libyans were kinda fucked for a while. But now the West seems ready to bomb the shit out of Qadafi's forces.
About time.
Last edited by Zinegata on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:55 am

> PhoneLobster wrote:Both of those things have happened. The only real pro peace Israeli leader in my life time was assassinated and ultimately replaced by the same right wing pro war factions that killed him.

*laughs at PL*
Rabin was replaced by Shimon Peres, who was actually more involved in the Oslo Peace Process. Peres was Rabin's Foreign Minister and hammered out most of the details.
Peres even supported it despite THIS bullshit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada
Which is the actual reason why the Israeli started giving up hope on the peace process. Because the Palestinians who didn't want peace decided to kill off the moderate Palestinians.

> Intra-Palestinian violence was a prominent feature of the Intifada, with widespread executions of alleged Israeli collaborators. While Israeli forces killed an estimated 1,100 Palestinians and Palestinians killed 164 Israelis, Palestinians killed an estimated 1,000 other Palestinians as alleged collaborators, although fewer than half had any proven contact with the Israeli authorities.

Which then led to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada
And the Palestinians didn't get sane people back until the Palaestinian Authority finally said "Fuck you!" to Hamas. Even then, they're still divided - and the shithead Palestinian faction is in control of Gaza.
Again, I laugh at PL's pathetic attempts to distort history, and his blatant lies. It's hilarious how he buys into the conspiracy theory that Rabin was killed to be replaced by an anti-peace right winger (he wasn't), and yet completely ignores the outright massacre of 1,000 Palestinians by their fellow Palestinians for the sake of wiping out the Palestinian peace movement - under the guise of "killing Israeli collaborators".
The "only Palestine wants peace" line is, again bullshit. Both sides have an insane militant wing. Pretending otherwise gets you laughed at.
Quit while you're ahead, fucktard. Start pretending I'm on your ignore list again so you can spare yourself further humiliation because of your shit-headedness.
Last edited by Zinegata on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:15 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:20 am

You total idiot. At what point did you think you can just gloss over all those points like the bit where that "documentary" repeated known lies made by the Israelis as fact, even though the Israelis themselves had already openly admitted they were lies?
You just put up a big wank job because the BBC happened to be the source of the funding used by that hack Corbin who apparently has a history of gushing pro Israeli pieces including, apparently, material gushing over the bravery of mossad assassins.
It being shown on BBC means nothing. It being created by the BBC means nothing, need I remind you that you apparently regard Al Jazeera (one of the formost profesional international news organizations) as some sort of I dunno, bad guys, and they were in fact created from the remains of BBC arabic television, rather recently in fact.
The brand on the story is irrelevant to the fact that they published miss truths and half truths as fact, they did not ask ANY serious questions of the Israelis, and did not even investigate the DEATHS of NINE PEOPLE.
But I guess you just skimmed my quotes and went and had a wank instead.
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:29 am

Oh, look, PL wants to continue being my bitch.
I totally don't need to go over your lies and unsubstantiated bullshit. Because again: You're regurgitating bullshit from the Free Gaza idiots. Who are whining about how the BBC made a propaganda film... because the BBC refused to show anti-Israeli propaganda.
And who whined about "not being interviews"... when they in fact were interviewed.
Moreover, instead of bringing up more facts you... go "Harumph! The BBC means nothing!"
Yeah. Let's take PL's word for it. The BBC is the propaganda arm of Israel. PL is much more credible than the BBC. Let's believe him without a single actual link or piece of evidence. [/sarcasm]
----
Again, the truth:
PL just doesn't want to face reality. PL is being laughed at by the rest of the world, who know the truth of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is more complicated (both sides have assholes who need to be fucking reigned in).
Notice how he completely ignores the well-documented fact that 1,000 Palestinians were murdered by their own fellow Palestinians? Can't show evidence that the Palestinians have shitheads among them, no sir! Because only Israel can be evil! [/sarcasm]
PL is again being the Glenn Beck of the Palestinian cause. Your blackboard is convincing no one except Ken O'Keefe and his fellow liars.
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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:44 am

> Zinegata wrote:because the BBC refused to show anti-Israeli propaganda.

Lets see your own quote again. I think you MISSED SOMETHING...

> Why did the presenter, Jane Corbin, not mention the bombs, rockets and white phosphorus dropped on Gaza by Israel during Operation Cast Lead over a three-week period in 2008-09, killing 1,400 people? She did, however, mention the "thousands of rockets" fired from Gaza into Israel, but did not say over what time period.

But regardless. Don't take MY word for it she published pro Israeli words.
Take ISRAELS word for it. They have ADMITTED THEY FAKED THAT AUDIO RECORDING which the BBC reported in that "documentary" as fact. This isn't "my word" for it, or of Israel's critics, ISRAEL has itself admitted this.
I mean holy shit how pro Israel can you be, even ISRAEL is less pro Israel than you are.
Lets throw in some more quotes I didn't use yet...

> The BBC also failed to present its viewers with clips that have been available on the world wide web for months now. Namely footage of the moment an Israeli 'commando' executed Furkan Dogan, aged 19, on the upper deck. No mention either that Furkhan was not a terrorist but merely in his senior year at Kayseri High School, where he was awaiting the results of his university entrance exams. He hoped to become a doctor.

> Instead, we heard Israeli commandos repeating the usual stories about IDF soldiers shooting passengers only in the limbs. And that dear friends only after extreme 'provocation'. As we all know 9 peace activists died on the Mavi Marmara, peppered with IDF bullets- to the head and chest area.

AND then there were the three commandos, captured ALIVE and NOT shot with the guns taken from them AFTER They had shot and executed 9 passengers, who were provided first aid and RELEASED ALIVE. But hey, doesn't fit your "both sides are bad" angle when one side is defending itself and merely releasing people alive and the other is executing 19 year old kids at close range with multiple gun shots to the head and chest. Does it?

> Zinegata wrote:Notice how he completely ignores the well-documented fact that 1,000 Palestinians were murdered by their own fellow Palestinians?

Wait... I've been all over here talking about them having violent criminals and chaotic feuding factions and almost no stable government. All I've said is that condemning those things any further than they already are, you know, with DEATH SQUADS HUNTING THEM, is really just totaly BS distraction to prevent holding the Israeli side even a fraction as accountable. Now you are lying about stuff that happened RIGHT HERE. That's it. I've had it with your trolling shit. Someone else can talk down to you. I've provided you with ample quotes and evidence, you just want to live in your own fantasy.
One that even the ISRAELIS don't agree with.
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:49 am

No links, no credibility. Again, PL can cry and beg for me to look at his bullshit, but no.
PL has zero credibility and is a known conspiracy theory fucktard. Let him cry and whine with large text blocks.
But again, let's look at the bigger picture shall we?

> Wait... I've been all over here talking about them having violent criminals and chaotic feuding factions and almost no stable government.

No you lying fucktard. You've been claiming this:

> Note that at no point there was it the Palestinians who threw away and violently overthrew any leadership working towards peace. It was Israel. It's always fucking Israel.

That's again without a doubt false. Which I already proved by showing Palestinian actions during the First Intafada - which was to wipe out people who may be interested in peace with Israel.
Oh, and the people in charge of Gaza? Hamas? Their exact policy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

> establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip

Oh, and let's not forget the wonderful people known as the Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine, who said this about baby-killing:

> this attack is a proof that the Palestinians are able to go ahead with armed resistance and overcome all difficulties to reach the targets

Peace? You lying fucktard. "Peace" by these people's definition is "There is peace because every Israeli is DEAD". That's the sort of "peace" some Palestinians want. Not a two-state solution. But another Holocaust.
So again, fuck off with your lies. You just want to blame Israel for everything again, which again aids no one, helps no one, because the world knows that "It's always Israel's fault" is a lie by a bunch of whiners who don't know shit and never cite sources when pressed.
The world isn't gonna help Palestine. Because they know Palestine is also full of shitheads who don't want peace, and their supporters are illogical shitheads like you who complain of "bias" when people look at your propaganda/outright lies and laugh.
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Post by cthulhu » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:24 pm

It's almost impossible for the Israeli's to agree to peace, because the proportional representation ensures that the hard right factions end up being involved in any government.
So as a result the Israeli's have this bizarre desire to act like huge cockheads.
However, both sides are dicks. Fuck I hate both of them.
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Post by Zinegata » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:43 pm

Not necessarily. Rabin/Perez got a good thing going. And most Israelis PMs since have made some moves. Even Sharon - one of the most hardline PMs ever - initiated something as concrete as dismantling settlements.
Both sides definitely need to reign in its militant wing however.
Also, breaking news on Libya: Gadafi just announced a ceasefire. He knows he's fucked the moment a Western war plane shows up over Libya, so this could be him playing for time, or him getting ready to get the hell out before the West starts bombing Tripoli.
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