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Goldor
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### My Fighter and some Rule changes

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Post by Goldor » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:14 pm

This was developed by me and a friend as we have been playing the last few weeks. I'd appreciate letting me know why they (and the class) sucks, and what could be done to make it better. I know the class is kind of front loaded but I'm unsure of higher level abilities to toss his way.
For every +3 STR bonus you treat the armor as if it was one step lighter, until you reach light. (Heavy becomes medium, medium becomes light, light stays light). This does not change the required proficiency of the base armor type, neither does Mithril.
When resting for 8 hours (or if you have an ability that allows you to do so quicker), all characters regain Con Bonus X BAB in hit points.
A character that has at least six levels in a class that gives full BAB can now perform full attacks as a standard action rather than full round action. (Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Etc.)
Whenever a person that could make more than one attack per round instead ops to make a single attack action (due to a feat requirement, moving and attack in a round or something else), that character will gain a bonus to damage equal to the strength damage they would normally receive on the attack for every attack not taken. (So a fighter capable of 4 attacks in a round would get their str bonus of 9 added 3 times.) This damage does not get multiplied by a crit.
Force Effects are breakable, they have a DR 25/- and a single hit point. (I am thinking of this making the fighter have an ability that allows them to break it with a full round attack as if using disintegrate on it. Treat the fighters caster level as his BAB. Instead of this rule.)
Every class that is a Full BAB class gets improved unarmed combat feat for free. In addition to this to determine unarmed damage, use the characters BAB as their monk level.
1. Fighter Feat, Larger Than Life (Medium), Shield Stance
2. Fighter Feat, Fearless, Big Man
3. Master of Arms (+1), Hustle, Superior Training
4. Fighter Feat, Naturally Tough (+1), Energy Resistance (all)/5
5. Grapple This (One handed Weapon), Quick Drawing
6. Fighter Feat, Master of Arms (+2), Uncanny Dodge
7. Larger Than Life (Large), Armor Master, Naturally Tough (+2), Energy Resistance (all)/10
8. Fighter Feat, Master of the Shield, Exploration Specialist (1/2)
9. Grapple This (Two handed weapons), Master of Arms (+3)
10. Fighter Feat, Weapon Master, Naturally Tough (+3), Energy Resistance (all)/15
11. Larger Than Life (Huge), Improved Shield Stance, Fleet Feet (+10)
12. Fighter Feat, Master of Arms (+4)
13. Dominate Weapon, Energy Resistance (all)/20, Naturally Tough (+4)
14. Fighter Feat, Fleet Feet (+20), Exploration Specialist (Full)
15. Larger Than Life (Gargantuan), Master of Arms (+5), Plane Shift (1/day)
16. Fighter Feat, Energy Resistance (all)/25
17. Naturally Tough (+5), Fleet Feet (+30), Plane Shift (2/day)
18. Fighter Feat, Gate (1/day)
19. Larger Than Life (Colossal), Energy Resistance (all)/30
20. Fighter Feat, Fleet Feet (+40), Gate (2/day)
Base Attack Bonus: Full
Good Saves: Fort, Will. Poor Saves: Reflex
Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate(Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (geography) (Int), (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points Per Level: 6 (X 4 first level) + Int
Proficiencies: Light Armor, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Exotic Armor (all), Exotic Shields (all), Tower Shields, Martial Weapons (all including exotic)
Armor Master - A fighter treats all medium armor as a Breastplate and all Heavy armor as Full Plate.
Big Man - Starting at 2nd level, when using Charisma based skills, a Fighter may substitute his Strength bonus for his Charisma bonus.
Dominate Weapon (Ex) - When picking up any magical weapon (including artifacts), the Fighter is considered to meet every prerequisites for wielding that magic weapon.
Energy Resistance (Ex) - The fighter has developed a natural resistance to magical and mundane elements. He gains Energy resistance to all types starting at 5 at 4th level, and improving to 10 at 7th, 15 at 10th, 20 at 13th, 25 at 16th and 30 at 19th.
Exploration Specialist - You gain a burrow, climb and swim speed equal to half your base land speed. As such, you gain a +8 bonus to Climb and Swim checks and may take 10 on these checks even when rushed or threatened. You gain the ability to hold your breath for x 3 your CON score. This increases to your base land speed at 14th level and you gain +16 to climb and swim checks, as well as being able to hold your breath for your CON score x 6.
Fearless (Ex) - Starting at 2nd level, a Fighter adds his Strength bonus to his Will saves.
Fighter Feat - The Fighter gains any Fighter feat even if he does not meet the ability prerequisites of that feat. These feats may be changed after eight hours of rest. As these feats can change, they do not act as prerequisites for prestige classes and character feats, but may act as prerequisites for other feats granted by the Fighter class. After level 8 this applies to any feat.
Fleet Feet - Increase your base land speed by +10 feet. This increases to +20 at 14th, +30 at 17th and +40 at 20.
Grapple This (Ex) - At 5th level, a Fighter may use any one-handed weapon when in a grappled, grabbed, pinned or swallowed state. At 9th level, a Fighter may use any 2-handed weapon when grappled, grabbed, or swallowed.
Gate - The fighter has become an utter master at using his weapons, he may now tear a hole in the planes that acts as if he cast the gate spell with a caster level equal to his fighter levels once a day. This ability can be used twice a day at 20th level.
Hustle (Ex) - If the Fighter moves or charges as a full round action, he ignores all movement penalties due to armor and shield.
Larger Than Life (Ex) - At first level, for purposes of any strength and grappling checks, your size is considered medium. (That's a little fix for small characters). At 7th level, this increases to Large, at 11th, huge, and at 15th gargantuan, and at 19th colossal.
Master of Arms (Ex) - A Fighter gains the benefits of magic vestment on any armor or shield that he wears for at least five rounds as a continuous extraordinary effect while he is wearing it, with the caster level equal to the character’s Fighter level. He also receives the benefits of greater magic weapon on any weapon that he has wielded for more than five rounds as a continuous extraordinary effect while using it, with a caster level of the character's fighter level.
Master of the Shield (Ex) - When attacking with a shield, the Fighter may use the shield’s enhancement bonus for attack and damage as if it where a weapon.
Naturally Tough (Ex) - At 4th level, the Fighter gains a +1 bonus to Natural Armor. This bonus increases to +2 at 7th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 13th, and +5 at 17th.
Plane Shift - The fighter is so skilled that when wielding a weapon that he is able to slice through the planes and transport himself and up to eight other allies to another plane as the Planar Shift spell. This ability can be used once a day at 15th level, and twice at 17th level.
Quick Drawing - Starting at 2nd level, you may draw or sheath any weapon as a free action.
Shield Stance (Ex) - You are exceptionally skilled with a shield. In addition to your shield bonus, a buckler proved a +2 armor bonus, a light shield provides a +4 bonus, a heavy shield provides a +6 bonus, and a tower shield provides a +8 bonus.
Improved Shield Stance (Ex) - Your shield provides an armor bonus even when you are flat-footed.
Superior Training (Ex) - When a Fighter uses a maneuver, such as trip or disarm he may do so as a swift action. If the maneuver fails, the Fighter receives no penalties and triggers no retaliation.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) - You retain your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. You still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
Weapon Master (Ex) - Any feat which applies to any single weapon now applies to all weapons.
Edit: Added Gather Information as I meant that to be on there to begin with.
Edit: Crafting Magic Items and Equipment
Caster level for creating an item is determined by the craft check, 1/3 rounded down. The caster level required to create the item must be met, or no progress is made that day. This means that it may take significantly longer to create an item via this process.
Crafting magical items is usable by any class, provided they:
A. Have the magic item creation feat required for the item.
B1. Have the caster level to create the item.
B2. Can achieve the caster level through a related craft skill to create the item.
This means that in order for a non-caster to create items, they need to spend skill points and the feat. Item creation feats still need to be taken. As for the caster level requirements for item creation, caster level = character level.
For example:
A 10 level crafter has craft (weaponsmithing) and the create magic arms and armor feat.
13 ranks + 2 INT + 2 tools + 3 (skill focus) = +20 modifier
They can roll 21-40, meaning their caster level on any given day for creating magic weapons can be anywhere from 7 to 13. This means they could potentially be working on a weapon with anywhere from a +2 enhancement to a +4.
Let's say he is working on a +3 sword. He needs to roll a 7 or higher, meaning he can take 10 and achieve this every day. He spends 1/2 of the base cost in materials, so 9000GP. He also has to spend 1/25 of the base cost in XP, so 720XP.
He has no chance of failure, so the entire process takes 18 days of crafting and costs him 9000GP + 720XP.
Example 2, same guy trying to make a +4 sword.
He must roll a 16 or higher every day he wishes to craft, or he makes no progress.
In the end, it takes him approx. 128 days to create this item, as he has a 75% chance of failure each day. It also costs him 16000GP and 1280XP.
Example 3, decked out awesome crafty dwarf.
Level 20, Craft (Weaponsmithing), Create Magic Arms and Armor Feat
23 ranks, 5 INT, Skill Focus (craft weapon...) +3, tools +2, Dwarf +2, magic item of craft skill (he made it) +5, +2 aid another = +42
That's take 10 and have a caster level of 17, with the possibility of rolling up to 20, working a lot longer at it.
Say he wants to create a +5 Vorpal Sword. This is caster level 18th. He needs to roll a 12 or higher, 40% chance of success, to create this 200,000GP masterpiece.
It costs him 100,000GP and 8000XP, and takes him 200 days (at 100% success, so more like 500 days to make, ouch).
Instead of wasting his time doing that, he crafts himself a +6 INT item, now having a total of +45. Now he can take 10 and take 200 days (plus the 36 days for the INT item) and be done much sooner. 100% chance of making a +5 Vorpal sword, and he's not a caster.
It also leaves the epic (caster level 21+) crafting to the casters, or the exceedingly crafty crafters.
The whole idea behind this is to reward crafting, and make it viable for non-casters.
Please note that I don't remember where we got this, but we have been using it for quite awhile.. It may even have come out of a book somewhere that we had at one point.
Edit: Added Burrow speed to Exploration specialist, add Planar Shift and Gate abilities to later levels.
Edit: Fixed some wording issues.
Last edited by Goldor on Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:54 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Whatever
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Post by Whatever » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:16 am

So, the only noncombat abilities you get are half the social skills (Bluff, Diplo, Intim), more skill points, and +Str mod to Cha skills?
That's not a lot, unless you play Diplomacy exactly as written. Then you can stack Strength bonuses and go crazy, I suppose. Other than that, how does your fighter contribute to adventures when it's not time to stab things in the face?
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Foxwarrior
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Post by Foxwarrior » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:24 am

Consider the following question: If this Fighter, at level 20, kept a Tiny 9th-level Wizard in his pocket (for flight, dimension door, etc), which character would have more control over the course of battles?
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Goldor
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Post by Goldor » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:00 am

He is also supposed to have Gather Information, though that isn't much more of an improvement. I edited it to add it.
While he is no longer useless out of battle I understand he could use a bit more help there. What would your suggestion be? I've considered tossing him move silently as a class skill as well, though that doesn't necessarily help all that much.
I forgot to post the custom crafting rules that I have as well, this allows him (and any non-caster) to craft magic items as if caster level = character level. I'll post that up as an addition to my first post for everyone to see here in a bit as I type them up (they are on paper at the moment).
With that said, I'm open for suggestions on expanding his non-combat abilities if you would like to make any.

> Consider the following question: If this Fighter, at level 20, kept a Tiny 9th-level Wizard in his pocket (for flight, dimension door, etc), which character would have more control over the course of battles?

I'm playing around with the idea of giving the Fighter at 6th or around there a bonus of 20 on jump, that increases every two levels by another +10 to allow him to get about the battlefield easier. While it wouldn't let him fly on his own, I don't think I could convince my group that they can simply fly by being awesome... Though perhaps something like Flash step provided to all non-caster classes? Hmm.. Need to think on that one a bit.
Edit: At some point perhaps 10th add that all Jump DC's are halved, they always count as having a running start and are treated as having the Run feat to determine jump distance. To make it more viable for the jumping?
That would likely be easier than my attempts to convince people that Kenpachi Zaraki from Bleach or Azura really are just high level fighters.
Last edited by Goldor on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:00 am

Well you need something for sustained motion in the air and something for moving through barriers, or else the class just can't compete. My suggestion is just to keep it a 5-10 level class anyways.

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tussock
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Post by tussock » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:58 pm

What are your goals? I see a bunch of stuff to lets you stand next to a dragon and not die pointlessly, but he still just flies some key distance away and kites you unless you can play bow-fighter.
Then, how is any of that better than a core Fighter with free action, a hench-dragon, and some variety arrows to pass DR? Or flying boots and a blink ring. Whatevs. You might say you can Ninja-charge your way into melee with enough AC to never get hit (only Dragons have Fly 200), but what does that achieve anyway?
Because Monks can be good at running around interesting places and not getting hurt. At the end of the day it doesn't achieve anything for the party unless the DM gives them a bunch of things to fetch while everyone else is being useful.
OK, you get the cheesy Gate stuff, but if the DM allows that what exactly is your Fighter doing anyway? Go eat biscuits while they win fights for you? At least casters can follow the things they Gate in and help out a bit.
Having said all that hardcore nonsense, if your game used to involve a core Fighter getting beat up on too much but otherwise dealing out useful amounts of damage because the DM lets that work, then your mods will indeed see him get much less beat up on. This may make the DM stop playing nice, but whatever.
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Goldor
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Post by Goldor » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:42 am

I'm attempting to keep him capable of being as strong in battle as he was at levels 1-3 while making him still be useful outside of battle to the degree that he is a valid choice for a character and not just a trap option.
The Gate and Planar shift are there more for the travel ability with out having to rely upon a magic user than it is to drag in beings to do the fighting for you, that is just a bonus.
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Hicks
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Post by Hicks » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:45 am

Some minor points:
DEX is not a save, Reflex is.
The spell is "plane shift", not planer shift.
Your larger than life ability should read medium, large, huge, gargantuan, colossal.;Colossal is bigger than gargantuan.
----------
There are easier ways to fix the fighter. Scrap the rogue class and fighter name, give it trapfinding, the former rogue's sneak attack progression, rogue skill points and skill access, evasion and uncanny dodge progression, and the former fighter's weapon/armor/shield proficiencies, full BAB, fighter bonus feat progression, and all good saves. There, a "fighter" that is "mundane" and advances by using trickery, planning, and gadgets. Call it the Knave class, and call it a day.
Bonus points for altering the use magic device skill to emulate caster levels for magical item creation.
Last edited by Hicks on Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:31 am

> Goldor wrote:The Gate and Planar shift are there more for the travel ability with out having to rely upon a magic user than it is to drag in beings to do the fighting for you, that is just a bonus.

Well then... you are an idiot?
No seriously, when the "bonus" is literally so much better than your character that you should never ever use your actual character again in combat, it is too much bonus.
Give them "Gate: Travel only" and write up actual minion class features that you spent more than zero seconds thinking about.

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FatR
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Post by FatR » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:24 pm

Here's the problem with your class:
1)If DnD is played as it is assumed to be played and is usually played (see popular adventure paths for examples of typical opposition and tactics), it will most likely have excessive numbers, and will be too strong, once investing the now-freed parts of his WBL, and particularly once combined with the usual optimization packages that already allow fighters to make everything meleeable explode on a charge.
2)If DnD is played at the competent wizard level, as usually is assumed on Den, he still can't compete, not enough travel modes, instant death and out-of-combat utility.
3)Too many different abilities for a class that is generally picked for simplicity.
Last edited by FatR on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Foxwarrior
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Post by Foxwarrior » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:18 pm

Here, I have what is obviously the best solution:
Take a normal Fighter or other simple mundane class. Give them all the standard magic item stat bonuses, at a slightly more aggressive rate (enhancement to ability scores, armor, shield, and weapon, including potentially replacing the armor, shield, and weapon ones like normal. Resistance bonus to saves. Spell resistance. Probably something else.)
Now that they are freed from the normal constraints of magic item dependency, and cannot get stronger by using those items, they can spend every last gold piece of their WBL and share of the loot on only the neat utility items. You do still have to get the other characters to agree not to take your stuff.
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