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## After Sundown

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Lance Twillman
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Post by Lance Twillman » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:18 am

Wow! Just ... wow. This is an incredibly well put together and well thought out product! Nicely done!
One comment is that your "Lifting" scale is a little wonky. "Max Lift" doubles from STR 2 to STR 3, but "Carry Home" doesn't.
"Max Lift" doubles from STR 8 to STR 9 and from STR 9 to STR 10. But not anywhere else. And from 30 to 35 is only a 33% increase?

> FrankTrollman wrote:.

> Strength | Maximum Lift | Carry Home
> 1 | 30 kilos | 10 kilos
> 2 | 50 kilos | 20 kilos
> 3 | 100 kilos | 30 kilos
> 4 | 150 kilos | 50 kilos
> 5 | 250 kilos | 70 kilos (average human)
> 6 | 450 kilos | 100 kilos
> 7 | 750 kilos | 200 kilos
> 8 | 1.25 tonnes | 500 kilos
> 9 | 2.5 tonnes | 1 tonne
> 10 | 5 tonnes | 2 tonnes
> 11 | 7 tonnes | 3 tonnes
> 12 | 10 tonnes | 4.5 tonnes
> 13 | 14 tonnes | 6 tonnes
> 14 | 20 tonnes | 8 tonnes
> 15 | 28 tonnes | 10 tonnes
> 20 | 60 tonnes | 24 tonnes
> 25 | 100 tonnes | 40 tonnes
> 30 | 150 tonnes | 60 tonnes
> 35 | 200 tonnes | 80 tonnes

If you're going to build an exponential system, one with a simple formula is easy to remember, and you don't need access to the chart during mid-game.
One strength scale I've used in RPGs since the 1980s is one that increases 10-fold every 10 points. The great thing about this math is that THREE points is a 2-fold increase.
That gives you this chart, which still gives you about the same lift/carry numbers at 35 STR. It's also nice in that the Carry Home numbers are the same as the Max Lift numbers, just shifted 4 spots.

Strength | Maximum Lift | Carry Home
1 | 65 kilos | 25 kilos
2 | 80 kilos | 32 kilos
3 | 100 kilos | 40 kilos
4 | 125 kilos | 50 kilos
5 | 160 kilos | 65 kilos
6 | 200 kilos | 80 kilos (average human)
7 | 250 kilos | 100 kilos
8 | 320 kilos | 125 kilos
9 | 400 kilos | 160 kilos
10 | 500 kilos | 200 kilos
11 | 650 kilos | 250 kilos
12 | 800 kilos | 320 kilos
13 | 1 tonne | 400 kilos
14 | 1.25 tonnes | 500 kilos
15 | 1.6 tonnes | 650 kilos
20 | 5 tonnes | 2 tonnes
25 | 16 tonnes | 6.5 tonnes
30 | 50 tonnes | 20 tonnes
35 | 160 tonnes | 65 tonnes

Or you can speed up the progression, like doubling every 2 STR.
Or making +3 STR = 4x weight (which also corresponds to a 10-fold increase for every +5 STR).
But then you'd have to reduce the STR scores for your Giant Monkeys to something like 20 or 25, instead of 35.
Last edited by Lance Twillman on Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:17 pm

The Strength table is not exactly an exponential system. Nor I think, should it be. The Strength values between 1 and 6 need to cover the gamut of reasonably encounterable human characters, and having them fit a smooth mathematical progression would end up giving weird coverage. I mean, your chart ends up letting someone with the bare minimum Strength lift most full grown women. That's kind of a lot, don't you think?
Logs make for pretty math, but they don't necessarily make for pretty simulation.
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Orion
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Post by Orion » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:21 am

Frank, have you send "review copies" to any of the big review websites? Would you like me to do so?
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:46 am

> Orion wrote:Frank, have you send "review copies" to any of the big review websites? Would you like me to do so?

Nope. But you're right, that would be a good thing to do. I can't mail 10 megabyte files from here, but if you wanted to, that would be cool.
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Orion
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Post by Orion » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:00 am

I know a few of the big site,s but not all of them, nor how they work. In invite everyone to post lists of sites they think I should contact and admins who are known to be responsive. In the meantime, I'll start where I can.
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Lokathor
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Post by Lokathor » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:34 am

An alternate PDF is now available for general use. Features include color images and the fact that it will hopefully end up as a hardcopy you can order off of Lulu.com sometime in the next few months (final price will probably be ~22$, no profits just printing costs). Before I send it off for printing I want to carefully edit as much as possible for error checking and probably put in some more art. Each city should at least have some skyline shots, since they're easy to do. Also, even if not all specific monster types get a picture, I should at least put in Frank's frowny face he had for the Trogs.
It's currently ~6.2MB and 215 pages.
If you note any errors or have any comments about it then there's like a million ways to contact me so don't hesitate. Also, the LaTeX sources are available should you be interested.
Last edited by Lokathor on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
[*]The Ends Of The Matrix: Github and Rendered
[*]After Sundown: Github and Rendered
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:17 am

In the current incarnation of the rules, a lot of the powers are free to use. Baali, for instance, don't seem to automatically start with any powers that use up points.
Not so much a balance issue as just really odd.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:06 pm

So, it turns out that Veils of Morpheus works pretty much like Shadowrun hacking. This is not a good thing.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:50 pm

> CatharzGodfoot wrote:So, it turns out that Veils of Morpheus works pretty much like Shadowrun hacking. This is not a good thing.

Please elaborate on that. I agree that would not be a good thing.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:59 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:

> > CatharzGodfoot wrote:So, it turns out that Veils of Morpheus works pretty much like Shadowrun hacking. This is not a good thing.

> Please elaborate on that. I agree that would not be a good thing.

The problematic powers are Denial of Privacy, Realization, and Dream Vision.
With Realization and Denial of Privacy, you end up on a Magic Tea Party adventure that nobody else can join unless they bought the same power set. With Dream Vision and Realization, you can throw armies of asura at victims on the other side of the earth.
My off-the-cuff solution for Realization is that it throws the dreamer into Deep Dream (along with anyone else in the dream) until they wake up. For Denial of Privacy, the Supernatural might be able to dream-hop while accumulating willing dreamers.
Dream Vision is tough, because it's neat that you can combine it with Realization, but you want to be able to make people dream of apocalypses, vampires, and hellmouths as well as just simulacrums of yourself telling them things. Maybe you can do the normal dream messaging stuff, and choose where in the Deep Dark people get kicked into when you use Realization. Maybe it also extends the range of Denial of Privacy?
These changes should allow hacking more along the lines of Inception rather than SR.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
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Lokathor
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Post by Lokathor » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:30 am

Some things as I carefully pick through parts of the Magic chapter:
Hand of Flame mentions that it's a touch attack that doesn't get damage for net hits. Is "touch attack" supposed to mean something particular like it does in DnD and SR4? If so, you don't define it anywhere else in the book.
Several powers refer to a "reflexive action", but this action type is never defined in the Danger chapter.
"A Discipline that is dispelled completely is suppressed and cannot be reactivated for the rest of the scene."
Did you really mean discipline? Or did you mean a specific power? If I dispel and suppress Hand of Flame, can they not use any powers at all in the entire Walk of Flame discipline? or can they still use Firestarter as long as it's not yet also dispelled? If all of Walk of Flame is disabled, does the discipline bonus also go away during that time?
Are disciplines intended to work with specializations and defaulting penalties?
Last edited by Lokathor on Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
[*]The Ends Of The Matrix: Github and Rendered
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:19 am

So things that live in the Dark Reflection:
Stygian Camels
Hell Hounds
Doom Bats
Wyverns
Snare Beasts
Tunnelers (the thing from Tremors)
Are there any monsters that people desperately need?
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:49 pm

Radscorpions would be nice.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:44 pm

Ash wights. Those shadows blasted onto walls from nuclear blasts give rise to things in the Reflection not quite ghost, not quite solid.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:16 am

Those are cool ones, yeah.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:53 pm

Doom Flies?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
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Lich-Loved
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Post by Lich-Loved » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:06 am

Great work, Frank. For the first time in my life, I am actually interested in WoD!
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:34 am

To be clear. Question we have in game:
If someone with a Path of Blood gets an advancement card that provides either a basic or advanced sorcery, and they don't have a book of Path of Blood, can they take Gift of Health?

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:29 am

> Kaelik wrote:To be clear. Question we have in game:
> If someone with a Path of Blood gets an advancement card that provides either a basic or advanced sorcery, and they don't have a book of Path of Blood, can they take Gift of Health?

Yes.
You need to have the sorcery already, or be a member of the appropriate cult or have an appropriate book to advance that sorcery. It's not much of a limitation, but then people are supposed to be getting the powers they want to have.
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virgil
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Post by virgil » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:51 am

For the classic vampire scene of grabbing a human, holding them, and drinking the blood straight from the neck with plenty of time...is it resolved as an Abduct action, followed by a melee attack for regular damage that's described as sucking out their blood?
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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:34 am

> virgil wrote:For the classic vampire scene of grabbing a human, holding them, and drinking the blood straight from the neck with plenty of time...is it resolved as an Abduct action, followed by a melee attack for regular damage that's described as sucking out their blood?

This would be nice to know, actually. I rule it as such, with a bite being a Damage 1 (lethal) weapon.

> DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

> Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:19 am

That sounds pretty workable.
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Orion
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Post by Orion » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:42 pm

I got a blurb for After Sundown!
"The RPG has a doggy on the cover."
- Arthur B., Ferretbrain.com
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:04 am

> Orion wrote:I got a blurb for After Sundown!
> "The RPG has a doggy on the cover."
> - Arthur B., Ferretbrain.com

What is the context of that?
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:06 am

So, what was the latest book you're doing? And did you want any art for it?
I mean, I can't draw, what with my dominant shoulder being fractured, but I can do pastels with my left hand, and they turn out just fine - arguably better than drawing or painting, because they blend so well. Fire and smoke is especially awesome with pastels, for what it's worth, but living creatures and so on also work.
So if you wanted some free pictures to include, I could do some, scan them and send them your way. Obviously filed under "this can be used for profit or not, whatever, I don't even care".

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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