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## [Dom3] Draft: Etimhara Victorious

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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:58 pm

The Mercenary Company of Sachs recruits:
Skinshifter 400 (Vanheim)
Didn't think we'd get this. People don't like werewolves?
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:38 pm

I don't think it's weird that the first four picks were the two best Longbowmen and the two best build-anywhere sacreds. Also not a coincidence that the people who drafted a build-anywhere Priest 3 also chose to draft a build-anywhere sacred troop. The Skinshifter is a very nice infantryman, but I am actually a bit surprised to see him go in the first round. Einheres might be better in this format because you don't pay resources for PD and berserking is more useful for PD units than taking less battle afflictions.
I expect all three elephants to be gone by the end of round two and for the list of available archers to be very thin by that point. Honestly: I expected Sachs to draft Marignon's Crossbowman, because the synergy between a Vanjarl and a move-2 Crossbowman is fairly obvious. Round one Wind Guide plus a lot of crossbows is pretty brutal fairly late in the game. Marignon's Crossbows are fairly dominating even living in Marignon, whose archery buff of choice (Flaming Arrows) is more than twice as good on literally any other ranged weapon.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:48 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:I expect all three elephants to be gone by the end of round two and for the list of available archers to be very thin by that point. Honestly: I expected Sachs to draft Marignon's Crossbowman, because the synergy between a Vanjarl and a move-2 Crossbowman is fairly obvious. Round one Wind Guide plus a lot of crossbows is pretty brutal fairly late in the game. Marignon's Crossbows are fairly dominating even living in Marignon, whose archery buff of choice (Flaming Arrows) is more than twice as good on literally any other ranged weapon.
> -Username17

I'm not really a crossbow person, and I like drafting what I know how to use
Last edited by Zinegata on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:58 pm

Now we start getting into proper hate drafts.
Amblis: Amblis has by now purchased itself the Sauromatia dilemma: that having good Water/Death casters leaves it in the position where it wants Cold, but having expensive Cold Blooded units makes it need Heat. Of especial interest is that Amblis has not one but two powerful mages who fly, which fairly requires it to get some decent flying troops to make that threat meaningful. Expect Amblis to try to snag either the Spire Horn Archer or the Blizzard Warrior as its basic archer. Probably the spire horn, because it costs less resources and isn't boned by Heat.
Tsimzan: Thugged out to heck and back (Edomite Scout, Jotun Gode, King of the Deep, and Vanadrott), Tsimzan needs chaff. Tsimzan also has chaff, in that they have both the Tribal King and the Priest King who can raise slaves. They probably want something fast that can harry back ranks and distract enemy archer squads. They are probably going to be cold-aspected (between their water-aspected King and their cold resistant Gode it sounds like a sure bet), so Ice Clad or Storm Guard may be exactly what the doctor ordered.
Carthacia: Carthacia is all about having the humans make thug gear for their Skratti overlords. That's going to be fearsome, but it doesn't conquer provinces early on or suggest any obvious route of early expansion. They would want either a cheap archer or an elephant.
Huichan: Maenad spam and Theurg battlemages. Fairly dreamy as an expansion force, especially if it can back that up with a decent archer. Would almost certainly take a Crossbowman (preferably the Marignon one, because it is the best) because they do less collateral damage to maenads when shooting into melee (because they have a higher accuracy and a lower rate of fire) and do more damage to everything else (because they are armor piercing).
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K
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Post by K » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:16 pm

I'm so pissed that you took the White One.
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Winnah
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Post by Winnah » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:23 pm

I'll pick the Horseman 788.
I was hoping for at least one of the units already drafted. I was not expecting the competition to be this fierce. It was either the Horseman, Ulm's crossbowman or one of the Illithid. The hoseman can at least benefit from archer buffs, as well as fight back effectively against typical infantry units that close. Not an ideal pick, but I don't want to slow everyone down.
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K
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Post by K » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:32 pm

Illithid 331 (Rlyeh)
Last edited by K on Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Shiritai
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Post by Shiritai » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:04 pm

Kinda annoyed that my choice is that easily read , but I'll pick Crossbowman 218 (Marignon) anyways. A low-resource crossbow is just what I need, and though having it for PD 1-19 would be nice, I've got no guarantee of that pick.
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:49 pm

1. Elephant 150 (Arco)
2. Mammoth 419 (Caelum)

Lets talk about hate draft... Self hate?
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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:32 pm

> Korwin wrote:
> 1. Elephant 150 (Arco)
> 2. Mammoth 419 (Caelum)
> Lets talk about hate draft... Self hate?

You magnificent bastard.
Why does this board have a thousand emoticons, none of which are clapping?
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K
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Post by K » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:33 pm

Jotun Hirdman 842 (Jotunheim)
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Tador
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Post by Tador » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:11 pm

i dont know all units but gives it an Sacred archer build anywhere what is not picked yet ????
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:27 pm

I think there is only one sacred archer. In the LA, not the MA...

> Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.

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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:32 pm

There are no Sacred build-anywhere archers in the MA.
The remaining sacred build-anywhere units are:
• the Flagellant 217 (Marignon)
• the Sacred Serpent 295 (C'tis).
The remaining build-anywhere archers are:
• Light Cavalry 26 (Man) - expensive, fast, short bow
• Crossbowman 417 (Ulm) - expensive, armored, arbalest
• Sapper 749 (Ulm) - expensive, crossbow
• Archer 797 (T'ien Ch'i) - composite bow
• Imperial Archer 801 (T'ien Ch'i) - expensive, armored, composite bow
• Imperial Crossbowman 802 (T'ien Ch'i) - expensive, armored, crossbow
• Heavy Horseman 789 (T'ien Ch'i) - expensive, armored, fast, fighty, composite bow
• Machaka Archer 879 (Machaka) - cheap, fast, short bow
• Spire Horn Archer 128 (Caelum) - cheap, flying, short bow
• Blizzard Warrior 127 (Caelum) - flying, short bow
• Centaur 27 (Pangaea) - expensive, fast, long bow
• Moose Riders 1085 (Jotunheim) - expensive, tough, fast, 2 short bows
• Markata Archer 1120 (Bandar Log) - dirt cheap, small bow, terrible
• Atavi Archer 1121 (Bandar Log) - cheap, stealthy, short bow
• Vanara Archer 1123 (Bandar Log) - armored, short bow
• Light Bandar Archer 1130 (Bandar Log) - expensive, tough, fighty, long bow
• Bandar Archer 1131 (Bandar Log) - expensive, tough, armored, fighty, long bow
• Bandit 1312 (Shinuyama) - stealthy, armored, short bow
• Bakemono Archer 1395 (Shinuyama) - cheap, stealthy, short bow
• Bakemono Archer 1391 (Shinuyama) - armored, short bow
• Gileadite Archer 2061 (Ashdod) - super-expensive, armored, tough, fighty, super-powerful gileadite bow
• Illithid 407 (R'lyeh) - super-expensive, magical creature, armored, tough, fighty, mind blast.
That's... actually a lot of variety.
edit: comments, oops, more comments
Last edited by angelfromanotherpin on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:48 pm

You left out:
Imperial Crossbowman 802 (Tien Chi) expensive, armored, crossbow
And I don't even know whether to count Jotun Hurlers or Jotun Javelinists. They technically do count as archers in that they benefit from flaming arrows. But they only have two shots. The Jotun Javelin has a range of 20, which is not much worse than the shortbow (30) and actually the same as the small bow. Should that be on the list of archers? Maybe.
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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:54 pm

Is it the Jotun Hurler who has rocks which turn into fireballs when you cast flaming arrows?
I'm actually a bit tempted by that - and the siege bonus is not nothing, either.
Chaosium rules are made of unicorn pubic hair and cancer. --AncientH
When you talk, all I can hear is "DunningKruger" over and over again like you were a god damn Pokemon. --Username17
Fuck off with the pony murder shit. --Grek
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Akula
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Post by Akula » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:10 pm

I think you also missed: Sapper (Ulm) expensive, crossbow, mapmove 2.
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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:33 pm

By the way, for reference when we start our second set of build-anywhere unit drafts - here are the 60 remaining recruitables with the highest resource:gold recruitment ratio.
It includes more than a few major surprises - wouldn't have occurred to me that those hide-shield mictlan warrior guys might be desirable by this criterion.
Although, word of warning - having a lot of hit points in your PD for a province can cause your intervention forces to flee when the PD is killed! So cheap and sleazy may not be desirable, even if it's going to be more useful for early expansion than relatively elite stuff.

Resource Efficiency | Shield | Unit
1.181818182 | Shield | Milesian Longspear 1781 (Eriu)
1.193548387 | Shield | Jotun Spearman 278 (Jotunheim)
1.2 |  | Slave Guardian 1524 (Rlyeh)
1.2 | Shield | Man at Arms 133 (Marignon)
1.214285714 | Kite_Shield | Black Knight 69 (Ulm)
1.238095238 |  | Abysian Infantry 81 (Abysia)
1.238095238 |  | Abysian Infantry 82 (Abysia)
1.258064516 | Shield | Jotun Axeman 279 (Jotunheim)
1.272727273 | Shield | Axeman 53 (Man)
1.285714286 | Shield | Tower Guard 63 (Man)
1.285714286 | Tower_Shield | Abysian Infantry 83 (Abysia)
1.285714286 | Turtle_Shell_Shield | Mermidon 1045 (Oceania)
1.3 |  | Slave Guardian 1526 (Rlyeh)(Aquatic)
1.3 |  | Slave Guardian 336 (Rlyeh)
1.3 | Hide_Shield | Warrior 1547 (Mictlan)
1.3125 | Tower_Shield | Principe 665 (Ermor)
1.3125 | Tower_Shield | Principe 687 (Pyth)
1.333333333 | Tower_Shield | Abysian Infantry 84 (Abysia)
1.357142857 |  | Wave Warrior 1048 (Oceania)
1.363636364 | Shield | Heavy Infantry 165 (Ctis)
1.454545455 | Shield | Caelian Infantry 420 (Caelum)
1.5 | Shield | Hypaptist 16 (Arco)
1.5 | Shield | Swamp Guard 164 (Ctis)
1.538461538 | Shield | Hirdman 144 (Vanheim)
1.578947368 | Tower_Shield | Praetorian Guard 667 (Ermor)
1.583333333 | Turtle_Shell_Shield | Ichtysatyr Soldier 1043 (Oceania)
1.6 |  | Bandit 1312 (Shinuyama)
1.615384615 | Tower_Shield | Hastatus 664 (Ermor)
1.615384615 | Tower_Shield | Hastatus 686 (Pyth)
1.636363636 | Shield | Milesian Swordsman 1782 (Eriu)
1.642857143 | Shield | Satyr 230 (Pangaea)
1.692307692 | Shield | Hirdman 145 (Vanheim)
1.818181818 |  | Pikeneer 221 (Marignon)
1.818181818 | Buckler | Pale One Soldier 1472 (Agartha)
1.818181818 | Tower_Shield | Alae Legionaire 663 (Ermor)
1.818181818 | Tower_Shield | Alae Legionaire 685 (Pyth)
1.933333333 | Tower_Shield | Triarius 666 (Ermor)
1.933333333 | Tower_Shield | Triarius 688 (Pyth)
1.9375 | Ice_Aegis | Storm Guard 421 (Caelum)
2 |  | Halberdier 220 (Marignon)
2 |  | Infantry of Ulm 75 (Ulm)
2 | Kite_Shield | Agarthan Infantry 1355 (Agartha)
2.076923077 | Great_Hide_Shield | Machaka Hoplite 882 (Machaka)
2.090909091 |  | Pikeneer 79 (Ulm)
2.090909091 |  | Swordsman 219 (Marignon)
2.142857143 |  | Meteorite Guard 424 (Rlyeh)
2.181818182 |  | Crossbowman 417 (Ulm)
2.181818182 |  | Infantry of Ulm 67 (Ulm)
2.181818182 |  | Infantry of Ulm 71 (Ulm)
2.363636364 | Tower_Shield | Infantry of Ulm 73 (Ulm)
2.363636364 | Tower_Shield | Infantry of Ulm 77 (Ulm)
2.454545455 | Kite_Shield | Agarthan Heavy Infantry 1354 (Agartha)
2.5 | Shield | Hoplite 14 (Arco)
2.625 | Ice_Aegis | Iceclad 132 (Caelum)
2.909090909 |  | Black Plate Infantry 76 (Ulm)
3 |  | Black Plate Pikeneer 80 (Ulm)
3.090909091 |  | Black Plate Infantry 68 (Ulm)
3.090909091 |  | Black Plate Infantry 72 (Ulm)
3.272727273 | Tower_Shield | Black Plate Infantry 74 (Ulm)
3.272727273 | Tower_Shield | Black Plate Infantry 78 (Ulm)

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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:55 am

You left out Atlantean Infantry 1621. 10 gold, 12 resources. Not that good, but a better unit than Eriu spearmen.
It's also time to start thinking about gods. The best Bless chassis in the game will depend on what bless you want. If you're going for a 9 Bless or a double-9 bless, you save a lot of points by having the right kind of chassis. At base, you'll be spending 392 points for a 9 bless on a Manticore (the default chassis that you will not be taking). Having a 1 in the starting field saves you 104 points (seriously), and having a 2 saves you another 64, and having the 3 saves you a final 56. So even though being a Lady of Springs or Lady of Love costs 125 points base, the fact is that if you're taking the coveted W9/N9 bless, they will save you 272 points on the paths, making the actual cost of the chassis -147 points.
The cheapest bless chassis is the big giant head from Marignon. He delivers F9/S9 for a total cost of 468 points - 316 points less than the Manticore.
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Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:00 am

Whoops, sorry. Didn't realize it was my turn already.
The Mercenary Company of Sachs recruits:
Bakemono Archer 1395 (Shinuyama) - cheap, stealthy, short bow
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Tador
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Post by Tador » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:24 am

what pretender chassis can i take for a F4 W4 N4 E4 A4 Bless?
and i chosse
Spire Horn Archer 128 (Caelum)
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:04 am

Bad bless for Jaguars and Eagles, but to answer your question...
For an multiple minor bless I would take an rainbow chassis. You would pay through your noose for an high Dominion, which you would need to recruit your sacred units...
Try an test single player with MA Mictlan with this bless and one with an single major bless...
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DrPraetor
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Post by DrPraetor » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:33 am

Tador - that's going to cost you. The cost of such a bless is:
Chassis +
((new path + 80) * #P@0) +
(48 * #P@1) +
(24 * #P@2)
So that first point saves you a lot, and having a low path cost saves you a lot. Out of curiosity, I fed that formula into an excel spreadsheet, and this will be cheapest as:
The aquatic archmage! 408 pts. .
Followed by the Frost Father @ 421 pts.
Void lurker! @475 pts, starts with domstr 2 though. (Is also aquatic ).
I, on the other hand, would settle for A4N4 and good scales.
I could go:
Imprisoned Lawgiver, A4S2N4, Domstr 5
O3P1C1G3L3M1
Not bad. When he wakes up, he spends all my air and nature gems on stuff. But this seems like a lot of points for an imprisoned dude-who-is-a-dude.
Imprisoned Fomorian Sorcerer, A4E1D1N4, Domstr 5
O3P0C1G3L2M1
Obviously inferior to the Lawgiver, although he can make A/E staves of the elements if I completely swaddle him in E boosters.
Dormant Mother of Tuathas, A4N4, Domstr 5
O3S1C1G3L2M1
But I think this is clearly a better deal. I lose 2 levels of P, in which does hurt actually, to trade up to a dormant stealth-titan.
Finally, my reserve hate-pick:
Dormant Gorgon, E4N4, Domstr 5
O3P0C1G3L2M1
Why? Because there can only be 1 Gorgon, and you fuckers aren't getting her. That's why.
Awake Gorgon, E4N4, Domstr 10
O3S2C1G3M2D2
Blech. No thanks.
Imprisoned Divine Serpent, N6, Domstr 6
O3P3C1G3L2M1
Hm... I like this build, actually.
Chaosium rules are made of unicorn pubic hair and cancer. --AncientH
When you talk, all I can hear is "DunningKruger" over and over again like you were a god damn Pokemon. --Username17
Fuck off with the pony murder shit. --Grek
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Username17
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Post by Username17 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:29 pm

The Lawgiver actually transforms into a Couatl, which means that he is a bit harder core than just being a dude who is a dude. I don't think he loses paths for turning into a big snake, just item slots.
Anyway, Nimtir drafts:
Shambler Thrall 425 (Rlyeh)
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:51 pm

Dom5 is awfully suicidal low.
Prepare to die an Domkill death...
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