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JonSetanta
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### D&D 3.5e Modular

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Post by JonSetanta » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:56 pm

This includes some homebrew rules that should be easy to implement, which makes casters M.A.D. and easier for custom characters.
D&D 3.5e Modular
Class abilities progress as by the classes chosen, each level following the previous.
Bonus feats that grant racial, metamagic, numeric bonuses, or otherwise non-class abilities are gained at a rate of an additional feat per level on the side.
10 training slots at level 1
1 slot = 1 feat
HP
All: 4 + CON bonus per level, add CON score at level 1 instead of CON bonus
1 slot: +2 per level
MP
Equal to WIS score
Spells cost 1 MP per spell level
Accuracy
All: bonus +½ level
Trained: either replace with +4 + level to hit (do not add ability score bonus) OR bonus + level
Types:
Melee weapons and unarmed strike
Ranged (throw and shoot)
Spells
Saves
All: bonus +½ level
Trained: +2
Types (with trained additions):
Fortitude (use value as Damage Reduction)
Reflex (add to AC as Dodge bonus)
Will (spell save DC is CHA bonus + 11 + Will value, add Will bonus to MP)
Skills
All: +½ level ranks for all skills, 2 skills trained, additional skills trained for high INT bonus
Trained: 3 + level ranks replaces ½ level
1 slot: +2 skills trained
Armor
All: Shields and Helmets
1 slot: Light
2 slots: Medium
3 slots: Heavy
Weapons
All: Simple
1 slot: Martial + Exotic
1 slot: Unarmed (1d6 + level damage)
Spells
1 slot per Arcane spell school or Psionic discipline
1 slot for Paladin and Ranger spells each
2 slots for Bard spells
3 slots per Divine class group
All spells slotted as trained are known but only INT bonus + level may be readied
1 slot: + level to spells readied
Examples
FIGHTER
3 slots: 10 HP per level
1 slot: Fortitude
2 slots: Melee and Ranged
3 slots: all armor
1 slot: all weapons
WIZARD
4 HP per level
1 slot: Will
1 slot: Spells
8 slots: all Arcane spell schools
ROGUE
1 slot: 6 HP per level
1 slot: Reflex
6 slots: 8 skills
2 slots: Melee and Ranged
CLERIC
2 slots: 8 HP per level
2 slots: Fortitude and Will
1 slot: Melee
2 slots: Medium armor
3 slots: Cleric spell group
MONK
2 slots: 8 HP per level
3 slots: all saves
1 slot: Melee
1 slot: Unarmed
3 slots: Cleric spell group
Last edited by JonSetanta on Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Foxwarrior
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Post by Foxwarrior » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:06 pm

Access to a Wizard spell school is worth 1 feat, or 2 skill points per level?
www.gempunks.com
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:20 am

> Foxwarrior wrote:Access to a Wizard spell school is worth 1 feat, or 2 skill points per level?

Sortof. 2 skills at max ranks.
When you gain access to a school that's all spells of the school known, but not readied, it's actually not as many spells as normal D&D, more like an Arcane Cleric.
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:09 pm

Added Bard, Paladin and Ranger spells, and Monk.
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VladtheLad
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Post by VladtheLad » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:40 pm

Is it just me or are armor and weapons not worth it?
If trained saves add their effects immediatly, like spend a slot to get good reflex and add it your ac, then they are no brainers.
Propably sth like 2*hp, all saves(3), +level to spells readied, divine class group, transmutation would be ideal?
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Whatever
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Post by Whatever » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:02 am

This is an excellent illustration of how this sort of point buy system not only doesn't work, but can never work. There's no fair price for an ability that may or may not overlap and/or synergize with your other abilities.
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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:26 am

Is the idea that you have 10 slots to create a character, then you get universal class levels to level up in, and not specific class levels. Kinda like building and advancing a Monster? Do I get a feat/slot per level up?
As this is your homebrew you can change things more. Getting that granular with armor types seems like a D&D legacy thing.
At level 1, Paladin and Ranger spells don't give me anything yeah?
Last edited by OgreBattle on Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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VladtheLad
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Post by VladtheLad » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:33 pm

Ok it seems your mp are your wisdom score and likely your will save. So lets say around 20 wisdom and 12 will save at level 20. 32 mp's? That literally less than 4 9th level spells. Maybe knowing extra schools/spending slots in knowing extra spells should increase your mp?
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:23 pm

> VladtheLad wrote:Ok it seems your mp are your wisdom score and likely your will save. So lets say around 20 wisdom and 12 will save at level 20. 32 mp's? That literally less than 4 9th level spells. Maybe knowing extra schools/spending slots in knowing extra spells should increase your mp?

One important question is how fast MP comes back. If you have full MP every fight, that creates drastically different incentives on how to spend it.
Assuming that you only get your MP once per day, the fact that MP is so constrained means you want to focus on the downtime spells. Binding demons, glyph of warding to store spells for later, etc. Even a level 1 mage can get better downtime value with Crafter's Fortune / True Skill and selling spellcasting services. Save up cash and hire mercenaries who don't have cool downtime powers. If you are required to adventure to gain XP, you can still smooth things out by bringing 40 archers along.
I expect that these rules would create an Ars Magica system, where the magicky characters want to spend a lot of downtime storing up power until they can shred any "conventional" adventuring challenge. They are less able to adapt to sudden challenges than typical d20 casters, so they are less likely to take risks.
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:46 am

> OgreBattle wrote:Is the idea that you have 10 slots to create a character, then you get universal class levels to level up in, and not specific class levels. Kinda like building and advancing a Monster? Do I get a feat/slot per level up?
> As this is your homebrew you can change things more. Getting that granular with armor types seems like a D&D legacy thing.
> At level 1, Paladin and Ranger spells don't give me anything yeah?

You still pick a class to level up abilities.
True about the Paladin and Ranger spells, but if you bump that up to an earlier progress it's... Well... Ok it still sucks.
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:49 am

> VladtheLad wrote:Ok it seems your mp are your wisdom score and likely your will save. So lets say around 20 wisdom and 12 will save at level 20. 32 mp's? That literally less than 4 9th level spells. Maybe knowing extra schools/spending slots in knowing extra spells should increase your mp?

I was thinking of a version 2 of this and that's what I would change.
Possible to increase points to 20 and increase the cost of full caster schools.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:33 am

> JonSetanta wrote:

> > VladtheLad wrote:Ok it seems your mp are your wisdom score and likely your will save. So lets say around 20 wisdom and 12 will save at level 20. 32 mp's? That literally less than 4 9th level spells. Maybe knowing extra schools/spending slots in knowing extra spells should increase your mp?

> I was thinking of a version 2 of this and that's what I would change.
> Possible to increase points to 20 and increase the cost of full caster schools.

How does MP come back? Full recovery on rest, or something fast enough that you might have full MP for more than one battle a day?
Are you concerned about people making dedicated characters who can invest MP during downtime for more power during the next adventure? Skeleton armies and such?
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:33 pm

I didn't want to make a new power schedule for D&D like "recover all MP after 1 hour rest" like I did with my custom RPG Domain, that's all.
More spells at lower levels and less L9 per day can't possibly be a bad thing.
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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:16 am

> JonSetanta wrote:

> > VladtheLad wrote:Ok it seems your mp are your wisdom score and likely your will save. So lets say around 20 wisdom and 12 will save at level 20. 32 mp's? That literally less than 4 9th level spells. Maybe knowing extra schools/spending slots in knowing extra spells should increase your mp?

> I was thinking of a version 2 of this and that's what I would change.
> Possible to increase points to 20 and increase the cost of full caster schools.

I don't have a clear idea of how to build and level up a character. Could you explain it in an example?
Last edited by OgreBattle on Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:22 pm

D&D 3.5e Modular version 2
Class abilities are purchased for 3 slots each, later level abilities following the previous ones.
For instance for level 2 Monk abilities to be acquired one must first have all level 1 Monk abilities.
Bonus feats that grant racial, metamagic, numeric bonuses, or otherwise non-class abilities are gained at a rate of an additional feat per level on the side.
20 training slots at level 1
5 training slots for levels 2+
2 slots = 1 feat
HP
All: 4 + CON bonus per level, add CON score at level 1 instead of CON bonus
1 slot: +2 per level past 1
MP
Equal to WIS score
Spells cost 1 MP per spell level
Spell save DC is CHA bonus + 11 + Will value
Accuracy
All: bonus +½ level
2 slots: either replace with +4 + level to hit (do not add ability score bonus) OR bonus + level
Types:
Melee weapons and unarmed strike
Ranged (throw and shoot)
Spells
Saves
All: bonus +½ level
3 slots: +2
Types (with trained additions):
Fortitude (use value as Damage Reduction)
Reflex (add to AC as Dodge bonus)
Will (add Will bonus to MP)
Skills
All: +½ level ranks for all skills, 2 skills trained, additional skills trained for high INT bonus
Trained: 3 + level ranks replaces ½ level
1 slot: +1 skill trained
Armor
All: Shields and Helmets
1 slot: Light
2 slots: Medium
3 slots: Heavy
Weapons
All: Simple
1 slot: Martial + Exotic
1 slot: Unarmed (1d6 + level damage)
Spells
2 slots per Arcane spell school or Psionic discipline
1 slot for Paladin and Ranger spells each (no delay, use Wizard slot progression)
2 slots for Bard spells (no delay, use Wizard slot progression)
4 slots per Divine class group
All spells slotted as trained are known but only INT bonus + level may be readied
1 slot: + level to spells readied
Examples
FIGHTER
3 slots: 10 HP per level
3 slots: Fortitude
2 slots: Melee and Ranged
3 slots: all armor
1 slot: all weapons
6 extra points
WIZARD
4 HP per level
3 slots: Will
1 slot: Spells
16 slots: all Arcane spell schools
ROGUE
1 slot: 6 HP per level
3 slots: Reflex
6 slots: 8 skills
2 slots: Melee and Ranged
3 slots: Trapfinding
3 slots: Sneak Attack
CLERIC
2 slots: 8 HP per level
6 slots: Fortitude and Will
1 slot: Melee
3 slots: Heavy armor
4 slots: Cleric spell group
3 slots: Turn Undead
1 extra slot
MONK
2 slots: 8 HP per level
9 slots: all saves
1 slot: Melee
2 slots: Unarmed and all weapons
2 slots: Cleric spell group
4 extra slots
BARD
1 slot: 6 HP per level
6 slots: Reflex and Will
2 slots: 6 skills
2 slots: Melee and Ranged
1 slot: all weapons
1 slot: Light armor
2 slots: Bard spell group
3 slots: Bardic Inspiration
1 extra slot
RED MAGE
1 slot: 6 HP per level
6 slots: Reflex and Will
1 slot: 4 skills
2 slots: Melee + Spells
1 slot: all weapons
1 slot: Light armor
2 slots: Evocation school
4 slots: Cleric spell group
4 extra slots
OUTSIDER
2 slots: 8 HP per level
9 slots: all saves
3 slots: 8 skills
2 slot: Melee and Spells
1 slot: all weapons
2 slots: 1 Arcane spell group
3 extra slots
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:24 pm

With v2 I allocated 5 slots for each level past 1 to get more abilities.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:47 pm

Turtle man:
19 slots: 42 HP per level
1 slot: all weapons
You don't care about Reflex, because you have so much HP you don't care if you get hit. You don't care about Will, because you won't be more scary than a regular enemy if you get charmed. You MIGHT care about Fortitude later, but around level 5 you can spec into spellcasting and raise a skeleton army with the money you saved on not buying armor.
Continue to invest in HP as you develop, until you have 4 digits of HP at level 10. (65 slots total, 60 on HP, 4 on cleric for necromancy, 1 on swords. 4+5+120 (CON) hp per level. 1(4+20)+9(4+120+5)= 1185 HP)
At level 1, you gain no benefit from the 19 slots you spent. Then at level 2, you suddenly move from 4+18=24 HP to 24+(42+4+4)=74 HP. You are offensively weak, but you can stand in between your mercenary hirelings and the enemy soaking up attacks. Don't buy armor, don't buy spell components, spend that money on a handful of tiny men with javelins until you can upgrade to a skeleton army.
At high levels, defeat enemies by strapping dozens of magic rune bombs to yourself and setting them all off at once, dealing 4 digits of damage and wiping out anything that doesn't have hacked mega HP. Your necromancy comes with powerful abjuration and healing effects, so you can immunize yourself to many explosions before the adventure starts so you don't spend your very limited MP on healing too much.
Remember to do a spreadsheet analysis to figure out which healing spell offers the best MP/HP ratio. However, you probably won't beat disposable low level wands for in-between encounters.
EDIT:
Minor correction, at level 2 you'd have 84 HP due to extra 5 slots.
Remember that any individual class feature is competing with 6 more HP per level, so you want to take as few as possible.
Last edited by Avoraciopoctules on Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:51 am

See, this is the feedback I was looking for!
I realize it's possible to load up on hp like that, but even in vanilla DnD how many 18-20 CON Human with Improved Toughness Barbarians dominate the campaign?
It's plausible, but spells are always stronger than HP.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:07 pm

Glad that this was helpful!
The incentive system created by this modular ruleset means that optimal planning will reject the "filler" abilities included in most classes and characters will all be hyper-specialized for a particular role.
The gaps between optimized characters and non-optimized characters will be wider. Someone who takes a default kit will swiftly fall behind someone who has carefully weighed each point.
At the same time, in a party of adventurers that were not built from scratch to work together, you'll likely see that everyone fits into the same general warrior-mage archetype. That's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on what your goal with the game is. Since schools don't give you more MP, you might have each hero with a different magical focus.
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