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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sun May 16, 2010 9:00 am

Final Fantasy 6 is by far the worst out of the series about having a crappy party member dragging you down. And this the game which gives you the most choice in choosing who to bring along with you. Even so, it doesn't have much of an impact on gameplay since FF6 is also probably the easiest out of the whole bunch, except for maybe FFX. But still, what a pain in the neck.
But really, play some Final Fantasy 6. It's really a sweet game.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sun May 16, 2010 4:08 pm

FF6? Easy?
Sure, early on. In the second half of the game though, progress means saving a lot as you level up and hoping nothing you run into casts Ultima.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sun May 16, 2010 5:01 pm

Even though the second half of FF6 is 'freeform' there is definitely an order in which you're supposed to do stuff that makes things a whole hell of a lot easier.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Sun May 16, 2010 5:45 pm

> Neeeek wrote:

> > Count Arioch the 28th wrote: Yeah, well right now I'm considering not playing anymore because of his suckitude. Granted, I like the character. He does try REAL hard and he is supposed to be in over his head. However, after getting Game Over after Game Over, I'm starting to get irritated. Last time was real cheap, that stupid Frog formation in the cave to Damcyan. I got surprised, then the monsters hit both characters with Frog, then beat me to death before my meter was even full. Fucking bitches.

> It took me awhile to figure out why it was that bothered me about this post, but I finally did.
> There's a Final Fantasy game where having one crappy guy on your roster will screw you over? In FF1, I can't think of a step up where someone won't suck at some point. FF2 and FF3, I don't really remember, except in one of them, everyone sucked. In FF4, you routinely have crappy people forced on you. In FF5, getting the best skill requires playing pretty shitty classes for a long while.. Sadly, I never played 6. In FF7, you have to play Cloud for almost the entire game, so that sucks. Though numerically, Aeris is total crap most of the time she's around. In FF8, everyone but Squall will fall far behind in levels if you played the game like it seemed like you should. FF9 routinely had crappy people around all the time. FF10 was hard to quantify. FF12 depended on what skills you gave everyone, more than anything.'
> I don't really have a point, beyond the idea that one guy in an FF game dragging you down is a very new thing that is barely believable without seeing it for myself.

You made some good points, but I would like to present a rebuttal of sorts.
In FF4, I will agree that the times you had to drag Edward around, or the part of the game where your only caster was Tellah, that was a major drag.
FF5: I remember getting X-attack for my characters. I managed to do it right after getting Ranger. I feel your pain.
FF6: Final Fantasy 6 characters were less diverse battle-wise. Gau was shit if you didn't spend time building him up and doing research and was godly if you put hours into him, the rest don't stand out too much.
FF7: Cloud is annoying, but numerically is the best character in the group as far as offense goes. I hated the times when he WASN'T around after Aeris died, because then I didn't have a good magic user in the group because Cloud and Seris had the only decent magic skill in the party.
FF9: I didn't think anyone was crappy, but if you didn't put hours into Quina like I did, he'd suck really bad. Then again, I was told I was lying on the old playonline boards because I said I beat Ozma with Freyja, Amarant, and Quina because it was perceived as "impossible" until someone beat him at level 1.
Where was I going? I don't know. Ah, right. I think the big problem is that I just have Ceodor and Hooded Man right now. If I had a larger party, it wouldn't be such a huge deal.
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Sun May 16, 2010 6:00 pm

> Lago PARANOIA wrote:Even though the second half of FF6 is 'freeform' there is definitely an order in which you're supposed to do stuff that makes things a whole hell of a lot easier.

No, I mean the actual enemies themselves.
Ultima does 9999 HP damage, it seems.
And the enemies with good experience/loot...well, I just had to hope one wouldn't use Ultima on me.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Sun May 16, 2010 9:07 pm

> Maxus wrote:

> > Lago PARANOIA wrote:Even though the second half of FF6 is 'freeform' there is definitely an order in which you're supposed to do stuff that makes things a whole hell of a lot easier.

> No, I mean the actual enemies themselves.
> Ultima does 9999 HP damage, it seems.
> And the enemies with good experience/loot...well, I just had to hope one wouldn't use Ultima on me.

The only random encounter monster I can think of that casts Ultima is in a rather obscure area of the game where you wouldn't normally go. That particular monster gives very good EXP, the max MP, and very rarely drops Economizers, so it's often worth it to try to find one.
However, in most cases you are safe from random encounters.
EDIT: I can think of one boss that uses it as a parting shot when dying, and the last boss uses it on occasion (But it's not his strongest attack!)
Last edited by Count Arioch the 28th on Sun May 16, 2010 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Sun May 16, 2010 9:17 pm

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Then again, I was told I was lying on the old playonline boards because I said I beat Ozma with Freyja, Amarant, and Quina because it was perceived as "impossible" until someone beat him at level 1.

How can you even get to fight him at level 1, let alone beat him?

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Sun May 16, 2010 9:29 pm

I am not entirely sure, but I bet Gamefaqs has a Low Level Challenge available.
Ah, here we go:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197338-final ... faqs/20114
It involves manipulating the game. Stopped and Petrified monsters give no EXP, the Virus and Zombie statuses freeze XP growth, and manipulating certain attacks.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Mon May 17, 2010 12:36 am

Actually, you can make other characters in FF7 better than Cloud. He's just easiest. I don't know how with some of them, but the injured-Tifa gambit is how I did it.
-Crissa
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Mon May 17, 2010 12:39 am

I am not concerned about "can make". It is so easy to "make" any one character better than any other that it's not a discussion point. As far as base stats go, Cloud is weighted toward offense and has very good magic ability without manipulation.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Mon May 17, 2010 7:24 am

Well, then if you're not concerned, there wasn't any reason to point it out.
The injured Tifa gambit takes advantage of poor stats and two crazy items you get by default so that she's always critting.
-Crissa
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Mon May 17, 2010 8:18 pm

> Crissa wrote:Well, then if you're not concerned, there wasn't any reason to point it out.

I agree, there's no reason for you to point it out.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Mon May 17, 2010 9:02 pm

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I agree, there's no reason for you to point it out.

You're falling for an egocentric bias, Count. Also, why?
-Crissa
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Mon May 17, 2010 9:34 pm

Get a room, you two.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Mon May 17, 2010 10:02 pm

> Crissa wrote:

> > Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I agree, there's no reason for you to point it out.

> You're falling for an egocentric bias, Count. Also, why?
> -Crissa

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RandomCasualty2
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Post by RandomCasualty2 » Tue May 18, 2010 1:41 am

I was kinda curious what the Tifa gambit was.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Tue May 18, 2010 4:56 am

Actually, I'll bite too. I looked all over the internet for a solid 2 minutes and didn't find it. (Usually if I can't find it in two minutes, I probably won't figure out where to even look to find it myself.)
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Tue May 18, 2010 4:58 am

It's like, cursed ring+deathblow? Darnit, there's so many FF7 faqs as to make it near impossible to find the one I want! I'm just going to have to dig out my copy of the game, aren't I?
-Crissa
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Tue May 18, 2010 4:59 am

Ah, I think I get it now.
Up your accuracy, then deathblow. I think I did that with Vincent soon after getting him because he gets a 255% accuracy weapon soon after he joins. I'm sure that could move to a lot of characters if you find a way to boost accuracy.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Tue May 18, 2010 5:10 am

Ahh! Yeah, and Powersoul. x8 damage.
So you put these things together, and suddenly you're more powerful than anything your level.
-Crissa
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Tue May 18, 2010 7:37 am

Vincent can, if you can be fucked killing enough enemies with him (stormtrooper areas with loads of weak foes and Matra Magic them or something, whatever), actually break the damage cap. He can deal so much damage that it is expressed not as a number, and the enemy takes something like millions of damage, or takes negative damage, the game realises negative damage was taken and that's wrong, so kills the enemy to fix the problem.
Apparently, the list of enemies it doesn't work on is:
Ruby Weapon

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Falgund
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Post by Falgund » Tue May 18, 2010 11:00 am

For the Tifa thing:

> [url wrote:http://speeddemosarchive.com/FinalFantasy7.html[/url]]When Tifa has the Powersoul, she does more damage when she is in danger. She does:
> - 2x damage for being in critical health
> - 4x damage for having Death Sentence on her
> - 2x damage for Deathblow
> This gives her 16x damage, making her quite powerful.

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Tue May 18, 2010 12:23 pm

> Koumei wrote:Vincent can, if you can be fucked killing enough enemies with him (stormtrooper areas with loads of weak foes and Matra Magic them or something, whatever), actually break the damage cap. He can deal so much damage that it is expressed not as a number, and the enemy takes something like millions of damage, or takes negative damage, the game realises negative damage was taken and that's wrong, so kills the enemy to fix the problem.
> Apparently, the list of enemies it doesn't work on is:
> Ruby Weapon

Barret can also hit the damage overflow with his Missing Score if you put enough mastered, high AP materia in it.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Tue May 18, 2010 5:30 pm

But yeah, you can put a cursed ring on Tifa and so she's in danger all the time.
I stopped playing my last playthrough because I only had the one counter materia. Ugh.
-Crissa
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Tue May 18, 2010 5:34 pm

Death Sentence increases damage by 4x? I'll be damned, I never knew that.
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