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Surgo
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Post by Surgo » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:54 am

lolwhat?
While nothing in the television or movies is immune to what tvtropes calls "Hollywood Hacking" (and for good reason), some are better than others and NCIS is usually one of the better ones. That just makes this one even more bizarre. What the fuck, man.
Last edited by Surgo on Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:12 am

I disagree on waterfall, but, then, I don't use it much because it does what I've always perceived as shit damage. It's a vicious little cycle. I also am aghast at you putting Belly Drum on a charizard...
Chess in a movie not about chess can work, depending on how it's done. It's been a metaphor for battle and struggle for centuries, so in that way it can be fine.
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erik
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Post by erik » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:16 am

Re: chess I just hate how even between two "experts" the checkmate is a total surprise and whenever they say "check" that is some great coup.
Re:NCIS yeah. It will take me some time to track down the particular episode but I will see if I cannot post a screen cap of it later. I work all week (which is more of a big deal for me since I do 12 hour shifts) and go out of town for the weekend but will keep it in mind.
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Cynic
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Post by Cynic » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:26 am

erik: while i'm no genius at chess, I have some experience at playing the game. Often while it is good to anticipate what the other is doing, you still get lost in your own game. the ability to anticipate and also keep track of the board and it's intricacies can give over to the surprise of checkmate and check.

> Ancient History wrote:We were working on Street Magic, and Frank asked me if a houngan had run over my dog.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:46 am

> Cynic wrote:erik: while i'm no genius at chess, I have some experience at playing the game. Often while it is good to anticipate what the other is doing, you still get lost in your own game. the ability to anticipate and also keep track of the board and it's intricacies can give over to the surprise of checkmate and check.

That may be true at some levels, but generally speaking in actual high level play, a "surprise" checkmate is like one out of a million games, and even games in which the winning players move puts him in an obvious win situation by surprise is one in a hundred.
Usually, a game is concluded when over a long positional and material struggle, one side has slowly extorted a higher and higher advantage, such that victory is highly likely, but still not assured, and the likely loser resigns. This is even true in games between those who are just really really good, and those who are the greatest, and therefore much better than them. It's still slow progress noticed by both players.
Comparatively, 90% of all chess games as metaphor in movies between two excellent players or comparable skill result in a "surprise" checkmate for no damn reason, even though a player of that supposed level would have seen it coming for a long time.

> DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:16 am

> Prak_Anima wrote:I disagree on waterfall, but, then, I don't use it much because it does what I've always perceived as shit damage. It's a vicious little cycle. I also am aghast at you putting Belly Drum on a charizard...

Waterfall is the best Phys. Water move. At Acc 100 and Pow 80, you're looking at Pow 120 in the hands of a Water type. Now for Gyarados, that's a huge Att, especially if it has even done a single Dragon Dance. But consider Floatsel, who jumps in and Rain Dances. So it now gets a Speed boost from Swift Swim, and Water moves deal 20% more damage, so Waterfall (keyed to its decent Att) is now basically Pow 144. Yes, Pow 72 (so, still "acceptable" in non-competitive play) if "Not Very Effective" (and you chose it in that situation why?), Pow 288 against Fire types or whatever, and Pow 576 against the various things with a 4x Water Weakness. Which should generally net you a OHKO.
Now pre-4th, it sucked, because all Water moves were special, and thus Gyarados was worthless. No really. You only used it as HM bitch in 3rd, and in 2nd you catch the Red one (Shiny meant better stats back then) and used Thrash to sweep most battles. But you know what? Pre-4th can eat a dick. I wasn't hooked on 2nd gen, and thought 3rd gen was the worst of the bunch.
As for Belly Drum, it's simple:
Round 1: Substitute (lose 25% HP, gain decent shield)
Round 2: Belly Drum (lose 50% HP, gain +6 increases to Attack, activates Salac Berry, gains increase (or was it two?) to Speed)
Rounds 3+: use Shadow/Dragon Claw to sweep enemies, or nail one hard foe with a double-suicide Flare Blitz (Attack, 50% STAB bonus, 50% low-HP Fire move bonus, high base power as it is, but on 25% HP the recoil WILL take you out)
Note: in Platinum/Emerald you can get a Tutor to teach it Fire Punch instead, so you get the STAB bonus without knocking yourself out. You could also forego the Speed boost by giving it Leftovers so it slowly heals up as it sweeps.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:12 am

Ok, I can see the reasoning for waterfall. I'm still not sold on Belly Drum, though, I'd just go for:
Step 1: Make sure charizard is at least ten levels above opponent
Step 2: Make sure charizard is the one that goes out against the grass/ice/whatever is weak to fire (so, set first, if necessary)
Step 3: Hit it with Fire Blast, or Overheat for preference, and knock it out on the first turn, maybe second if you're unlucky.
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PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:20 am

You know the whole "Zoom in. ENHANCE!" clue routine that... ha... ha... never gets old... and never makes anyone who knows anything, AT ALL about images, especially digital images, groan?
Yeah.
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Jilocasin
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Post by Jilocasin » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:30 am

Hehehe, Bellyzard. Now if only you could get belly drum and aqua jet on a huge power Azumarill.
Also, Hollywood Hacking is hilarious.
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Dominicius
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Post by Dominicius » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:24 am

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0716.html
So Rich splits the party. Again. Make guesses on what plot points he will push with it this time.
Last edited by Dominicius on Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:32 am

> Dominicus wrote:So Rich splits the party. Again. Make guesses on what plot points he will push with it this time.

In theory, it's not really a bad idea since it gives more time for characters to individually develop, but the last time he did it we got the excruciating Thieves' Guild/Sell Your Soul arc (which then, for no reason whatsoever, got really exciting near the end). I'm willing to give Burlew a chance to see where he's going with this, since OotS has been really good the last few months.
One thing that irked me and completely confirmed my idea of Xykon being the Worst Villain Ever is the fact that nothing came out of the Azure City Jailbreak plot. I was holding my breath the whole time, wondering about the next bit of Redcloak/Xykon drama and wondering if Xykon was going to take it out on the goblins--especially since it would give Xykon the opportunity to learn that the goblins were partying when they were supposed to be looking for his phylactery.
But no, since Xykon is a stupid piece of shit nothing came of it. All that potential for drama, wasted.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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erik
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Post by erik » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:27 pm

> Cynic wrote:erik: while i'm no genius at chess

=-) That's alright- I kinda am, or at least, was. There was only one kid my age/grade level who I would say was definitively a stronger player than myself in my state. I placed in top 100 nationally in highschool and elementary tourneys. I was a bit shy of master level in speed chess back when I played chess a dozen or more years ago. At national tournaments I would hustle players for money in speed games. I'm out of practice now sadly, but I remember things.
Kaelik is right on the money. Even when I was playing games where I literally would be making my move faster than 1 second at times, a surprise checkmate simply never happened unless my opponent was not very good.
The only time I ever saw surprise checkmates in any frequency worth noting was in bughouse chess matches (2 vs 2 chess where pairs face off and the pieces they capture on in their game can be passed to their partner to be placed in lieu of using a move on the other board... it's great fun and does a total mind-job on how you think about chess).
Also, I never ever say check unless someone attempts an illegal move. Many tournaments have "touch move" rules where if you pick up a piece and you can move it, then you must move it. It was rare that I screwed someone with that (say they pick up their queen and then have to use that queen to get out of check... which may involve moving it in the path of said bishop that was doing the checking... mwa-ha-ha-ha!), but it's silly to give up that opportunity.
Also I find it annoying when someone thinks they have to tell me that I am in check. Makes me wanna slap em in the face. I don't want my opponent talking to me unless it is trash talking or forfeiting.
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RobbyPants
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Post by RobbyPants » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:13 pm

> erik wrote:To depart from pokemon but remain faithful to the topic... Something that irritates me to no end in entertainment is the giant touch screen homage to minority report that most modern cop dramas fap over. It is stupid and unnecessary. Also whenever some show displays total idiocy about a subject
> Examples:
> In NCIS one computer expert is having trouble being hacked so the other expert helps her out by typing on the same fucking keyboard, each using half of it. WTF? Have the writers, directors and actors all never used a fucking computer?!
> And any time chess is ever played in a show/movie that is not about chess. It is always stupid.

I totally forgot about that part. That was pretty bad.
Really, most of the time you see computers interfaces in TV/movies, it's pretty bad. For a while, my wife and I were watching a lot of Numb3rs, and they were really bad about noisy computers. Every time they'd do something like scroll down a page, the computer would make some bullshit whining noise. In the context of the TV show, it's not that noticeable, but if you think about what it would be like for those characters, it'd be maddening:
There's a scene where the main characters are talking to someone in the DMV, and her computer is making all sorts of noises as she's running a search for them. She's sitting in a low-walled cube farm with 50 or so other people. Imagine how loud that room would be if everyone's computer is making noises like that at once!
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RandomCasualty2
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Post by RandomCasualty2 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:27 pm

> Kaelik wrote: That may be true at some levels, but generally speaking in actual high level play, a "surprise" checkmate is like one out of a million games, and even games in which the winning players move puts him in an obvious win situation by surprise is one in a hundred.
> Usually, a game is concluded when over a long positional and material struggle, one side has slowly extorted a higher and higher advantage, such that victory is highly likely, but still not assured, and the likely loser resigns. This is even true in games between those who are just really really good, and those who are the greatest, and therefore much better than them. It's still slow progress noticed by both players.

Yeah, true chess masters and grandmasters are so good that they're not going to be taken by surprise like that. The critical move of the game isn't going to be some surprise check, it's going to be the move probably 8+ moves in advance that set up that established the positioning to get that check.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:39 pm

Sometimes I miss my computer making noises when I scroll down the windows in the browser.
And then I remember reading the zombie online comic with gif animations and the really creepy as hell sounds that made the computer make.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:10 pm

> Lago PARANOIA wrote:

> > Dominicus wrote:So Rich splits the party. Again. Make guesses on what plot points he will push with it this time.

> In theory, it's not really a bad idea since it gives more time for characters to individually develop, but the last time he did it we got the excruciating Thieves' Guild/Sell Your Soul arc (which then, for no reason whatsoever, got really exciting near the end). I'm willing to give Burlew a chance to see where he's going with this, since OotS has been really good the last few months.
> One thing that irked me and completely confirmed my idea of Xykon being the Worst Villain Ever is the fact that nothing came out of the Azure City Jailbreak plot. I was holding my breath the whole time, wondering about the next bit of Redcloak/Xykon drama and wondering if Xykon was going to take it out on the goblins--especially since it would give Xykon the opportunity to learn that the goblins were partying when they were supposed to be looking for his phylactery.
> But no, since Xykon is a stupid piece of shit nothing came of it. All that potential for drama, wasted.

Ah Oots, the thing that pisses me off about it is that Rich doesn't try to keep to any kind of update schedule, and will then go for significant lengths of time because his mysterious illness flared up. It's bullshit, other artists with full time jobs manage to keep to an update schedule no problem. Granted, they tend to be once, maybe twice a week, but it's still a fucking reliable schedule.
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virgil
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Post by virgil » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:33 pm

This is a webcomic artist we're talking about here. It's actually a notable thing for them to hold to a schedule, and some are especially bad. What's the first thing Dresden Codak does when he announces that he's quitting his job and making the webcomic his full-time job and sole source of income? He takes a two-week vacation and follows up by seeming less reliable than before. Megatokyo is quite bad, last I saw. VGCats is also especially bad.
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TOZ
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Post by TOZ » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:08 am

The only solid updating webcomics I can think of are Penny Arcade, Least I Could Do/Looking For Group, and Sluggy Freelance. Shortpacked does well, and I think Sinfest as well, although I don't keep up on it. Sam And Fuzzy are pretty good about it too. PVP is spotty sometimes.
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Prak
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Post by Prak » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:49 am

Most of the ones I follow are pretty decent, which is why I follow them.
Something Positive, though Randy does a lot of cons which can interrupt things, Girls With Slingshots, XKCD, Freak Angels, Flaky Pastry, Devil's Panties (could be better, but seriously not bad), Heroes of Lesser Earth, A Girl and Her Fed, Three Panel Soul (actually not great at keeping their schedule, but pretty close), Guilded Age, Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal, Girl Genius, Oglaf is pretty decent at schedule keeping, Curvy
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:27 am

I decided to stop reading OotS after this splitup. I want to see this story come to completion, and I don't want to read about ANOTHER goddamn distraction.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:38 am

S*P was particularly good for that year of "You donated a year's worth of wages, I'm not working for a year and just doing the webcomic". He kept to his promise there.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Cielingcat
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Post by Cielingcat » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:21 pm

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I decided to stop reading OotS after this splitup. I want to see this story come to completion, and I don't want to read about ANOTHER goddamn distraction.

Could wait until it finishes, and then read the whole archive from where you stopped. Though, you might die of old age first.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:34 pm

> Cielingcat wrote:

> > Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I decided to stop reading OotS after this splitup. I want to see this story come to completion, and I don't want to read about ANOTHER goddamn distraction.

> Could wait until it finishes, and then read the whole archive from where you stopped. Though, you might die of old age first.

True.
Now, if the complication or distraction was due to something in the main plot line, that would totally be okay. I was frustrated when the gate in the desert was a red herring, but in a way that I wanted to see how they resolved the situation.
When they attacked the party because of Elan's resemblance to his brother and the party was split again, that just pissed me off. I could even have been cool with the lizard people being agents of Tiamat and attacking Vaarsuvius because of him killing such a large number of black dragons.
Mostly, I'm tired of Nale, I'm tired of hearing about him, and want the story to move on.
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K
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Post by K » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:26 pm

oops
Last edited by K on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:37 pm

My two major webcomics are Girl Genius (which WILL be updated at midnight Eastern time on Monday, Wednesday, or Friday, barring only grievous illness of the creators), and Digger (sometime in the mornings on Tuesdays and Thursdays).
But I stopped reading Order of the Stick after the Ninja half-orc died saying don't bother to attempting bringing her back.
I realize the story is just not fun for me now. Furthermore, it hadn't been fun for a long time leading up to that.
I think I'll read it start to finish when it ends. Apart from that, I'm not bothering.
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