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## Alternate surprise rules

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AlphaNerd
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### Alternate surprise rules

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Post by AlphaNerd » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:28 pm

Alternate surprise rules:

- Rounds last 20 initiative counts. Initiative rolls over 20 go in the previous round, under 0 or under in the next. Initiatives are changed to modulo 20 (so 25 -> 5, -2 -> 18)
- If someone is not aware of you then they get a -10 penalty to initiative.
- Until you have had a turn during combat, you suffer a -5 dodge penalty to AC and can be sneak attacked (uncanny dodge negates this penalty)
- All rounds are full rounds, so no partial action surprise rounds.

Are they reasonable? I'd guess that they mostly help dex-based weapon users, though if I'm allowing some craziness please let me know.
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Username17
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### Re: Alternate surprise rules

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Post by Username17 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:55 pm

As usual it does nothing to handle the dread "three body problem". It is absolutely the bane of every surprise rules ever made. It goes like this:
Three guys walk into a bar and they all hate each other.

1. A Really Stealthy guy.
2. A Really Observant guy.
3. A really Normal guy.

Both the average guy and the stealthy guy see the observant guy and vice versa. But the average guy and stealthy guy don't see each other. Surprises for who? Initiatives when?
It's a big problem, and that sort of thing is pretty much mandated if you atually have a stealthy rogue and a toddering cleric in plate armor.
-Username17
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User3
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### Re: Alternate surprise rules

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Post by User3 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:15 am

I dislike it a lot because of this situation:
Player A: Rolls a 32
Player B: Rolls a 7
Player C: Is surprised and rolls a -13
Player A gets 2 full turns before B even gets to go, and 3 turns before C gets to go. And that's just broken.
An Iaijutsu Master going hardcore for initiative could get a roll over 40, which would mean 3 rounds before the end of "turn 1", and at least 3 actions before anyone with a negative initiative actually went guaranteed. (possible even 4).
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Crissa
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### Re: Alternate surprise rules

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Post by Crissa » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:22 am

Well, the numbers don't really matter - unless you allow people to re-roll their initiative.
Stealth bonuses only apply if the target doesn't know your presence. That's all that you need - you don't need to give a big order of operations. If Joe doesn't know Jane is skulking about, and beats Jane on the initiative roll - Joe still doesn't know about Jane without another ability.
Saying your initiative have a 10 DC to act the first round is probably doable... But a round is an awful long time to have blades and spells flying and for people to not notice.
Surprise is all about choosing who acts first.
-Crissa
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Brobdingnagian
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### Re: Alternate surprise rules

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Post by Brobdingnagian » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:02 am

I do like the 'no partial actions' rule, though. That just makes sense.
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