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PhoneLobster
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### Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by PhoneLobster » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:52 am

In case anyone wanted to know here is a bit of an overview of what I'm currently doing with my hobby of dodgey home brew rules.
The setting its supposed to be describing
OK so I make homebrew rules to describe homebrew settings that I feel there are not good enough existing rules for me to run. If I wanted to run D&D I'd run D&D, this is for something that hopefully is a bit different.
The big dealio for this setting is that its all about its magic mythology.
Magic makes you crazy and turns you into a monster, its also the only true path to any real power, and if you scrape the surface of any powerful individual or group you quickly find monsters hopped up on magic of one form or another.
Its also basically a contagious corrupting force so being near it and using it indirectly makes you more like a crazy magic monster dude.
It comes in several types, pretty much all of which hate each other.
The exact details should be pretty much unessecary, and nothing special, the general drift of the above should give you some idea where I'm going from here.
The really basic bits
These bits aren't so interesting or important, skip over if you like.
After some experimentation with 4 basic combat attributes I've rolled it back to 2, each being base the attack and defence attribute for the only two kinds of attack roll in the game.
I found the four stats just too much of a needless complication considering they essentially did little more than the two do now.
The combat resolution follows vaguely along the lines of things I've talked about doing before with simultaneous resolution and some variation of my Big Fat Squares business for relative location, ranges, states etc...
I felt it was somewhat important to include some chase resolution rules, and I did. They are really far too basic and not so great so I won't go into details, but suffice it to say that chasing people around is moderately formalized and abstracted and there is no real pretence that the normal combat and movement rules are really sufficient for that sort of thing.
Social rules are a vague little mess kept separate from the combat rules, based off four stats in two pairs but unfortunately a little fuzy over which ones are the offensive or defensive attributes depending on contests.
Character Construction
OK so character construction is simple, distribute a few points between your attributes and roll straight on to background slots.
Here's the problem. I haven't entirely wrapped my head around background slots yet. (I'm currently bogged down rewritting the magic item section for some reason).
The idea is REALLY simple though.
I'm taking all the stuff I used to let you buy with "skill points" or whatever point based resource you want to call it and sticking it all under a funny hat with a false mustache on the front.
SO instead of spending skill points 1 thru 6 you spend "Ancestor" slot and "Parents" slot and "Home" slot etc...
The idea is a character ends up say like this...
Ancestor = Gain Nymph Theme
Parents = Fire Magic spells
Home = Gain sneaking skill
Training = Improve Sneaking skill
Then you turn it into a background story because with a few names thrown in it writes itself...
Your great grandmother was a Fey creature from the wilderness.
Your mother was a fire witch and you inherited her unnatural arts
But she died and you grew up on the streets gaining sneaky skills.
And you honed those sneaky skills with additional training over the years.
An uncreative player has already built you a background story without even trying.
If you want it slightly less formulaic you can let a character build with different sets of background slots or rename their own background slots to things like "Enslaved by a mad wizard" or "a strange childhood encounter" or whatever.
Outstanding problems...
Currently I'm thinking I'm going to implement background slots wholesale so they are all interchangeably expendable on the following things.
1) Combat skills
Which are basically tiny mediocre combat bonuses.
2) Social skills
Which are tiny mediocre social bonuses.
3) Learning Spells
Which is bad because these are not only new OPTIONS they are generally better than skills because they are probably more powerful and versatile AND due to the settings whole magic corrupts thing an actually built in means of advancing your character down the path getting MORE power.
4) MAYBE even getting upgrades in social class status
not sure about this yet, its a pretty nebulous thing to trade off a real solid bonus for, but...
5) MAYBE getting a little heirloom magic item
Under the current rewrite of the magic item system its looking like a magic item is somewhere between skills and spells in direct applicable power, and like spells is a means of gaining MORE power by letting it corrupt you. I THINK it would actually fit in fairly well as a background slot option assuming I'm already letting people trade between such vastly unfair choices as Skills and Spells.
6) Gaining Themes Known
I'll explain in a sec.
7) Gaining Themes Taken
Again explain in a second, but taken themes are taken from themes known and should put you the first step or so into magical character advancement and therefore to some degree on the path to even more power like spells and items do.
Advancing Background Slots
Every now and then the GM might want to give out more things that you can buy with background slots.
If so characters who just completed "The Wyrm of Howling River" gain a background slot that is titled "The Wyrm of Howling River Adventure" or "I got Wyrm Juice all over my nice new shirt" or "I chatted up farmers daughters in the Inn for five days while that guy got wyrm juice all over his nice new shirt".
IE future slots are titled after adventures, achievements, experiences or specific events.
And given out on an arbitrary basis, like all experience in rpgs.
The OTHER advancement
Having two advancment mechanics is DUMB.
But I'm doing it AND by 6 and 7 above you'll note I'm looking to take the nasty route of fuzzying the boundaries which is MORE dumb.
But you can't stop me! (well, maybe its not too late, but still...)
This "other" advancement is advancement by magic.
And as we all know magic is mechanically superior. I hate that and yet here I am, making it so (hey this is for a dark setting where magical monsters ARE supposed to be better than you, except they aren't because you are becoming a magical monster too)
So there are a number of sorts of magic. It REALLY doesn't matter what they are for the limited mechanical and game play implications the main point is there are several of them.
Each one has an attribute that is essentially a "level" in that type of magic.
You also have groups of powers in Themes that match different types of magic.
You "Know" certain themes. You get known themes from background slots and anything that advances your magical corruption (if a fire sword corrupts you you know the Fire theme, if a Clockwork Soldier corrupts you you know the Clockwork Soldier theme, etc...)
When you advance from level 0 to 1 in any magic type you MUST select a known theme of that magic type and make it a Taken Theme.
For every level of a magic type you gain a nifty monstrous power from EVERY theme of that type that you have TAKEN.
Every two levels you must take a nasty monstrous disadvantage from each of the same themes.
You can "Take" multiple themes, though exactly how many is still a little fuzzy.
Themes and power selection
Currently I'm looking to have 10 levels of each magic type and the game is opperates somewhat under the assumption (with some slight but not absolute mechanical enforcment) that you will basically stick to just one or two magic types and no more than one or two themes for each magic type.
So a normal character with one magic type and one theme eventually has 10 positive powers from their theme and 5 negative traits.
I'm thinking to offer about 15ish positive powers per theme so that there can be some choice in design but themes remain a strong influence on easy identification of what a character is or does.
And to offer about three (maybe 4) separate negative things, each of which is split into 3 steps of advancement so that if you do max all the way to the end of a theme you either have at least one crippling 3 step negative trait and a few one step mild inconveniences or several 1 and 2 step negative traits. (The idea is 1 step is potentially inconvenient, 2 is inconvenient and possibly dangerous, 3 is dangerous and often crippling).
I'm also toying with offering limited access to additional "secondary themes" where a character earns powers and disadvantages at about half the rate. If so some themes will be written up as "secondary only" and have less options in them over all.
Stuff to do
Currently I need to finish rewritting the magic item section to something a little less complex and over powered and a bit more fun than the last version of the rules.
I need to rewrite the spells similarly (They were WAY too powerful and complex in the last version of the rules)
I need to write up all the themes, in the last version I did that part of character advancement quite differently so thats pretty much going to have to be from scratch.
Ongoing issues
I still have no real resolutions to the following problems...
1) How much should I separate or try to balance Social and Combat options in Background slot selection and Theme options?
Currently I've got nothing I really don't like characters that are REALL good at social but crap and combat and visa versa, but I also DON'T want people having to get a social AND a combat benefit from every theme option and things like that.
2) Making Spells and Items not be TOO good.
I really want to be able to give these out interchangably with better hitting things with swords or lieing to people skills. But well, they just plain AREN'T fair right now. Being able to set someone on fire with your mind is, currently a lower number than having +2 with stabbing things, but really a much nicer OPTION for a variety of reasons (damage type, versatility, fuel for character advancement).
Similarly having even the lamest magical sword is better than having +1 stabbing skill because its about the same net effect AND the magic sword gives you a leg up into the early levels of character advancement.
I REALLY should try harder to fix that...
3) Stopping characters from just advancing EVERYTHING
I don't have nearly enough limits on a character deciding to just rack on as many themes and as many levels in as many magic types as they can find.
I REALLY need to stick in a mechanic that FORCES a character to limit or loose levels in opposing magic types when advancing another type or something...
4) Magic is just better, why isn't everyone a monster?
Its just plain better to take magical corruption and be a monster. That IS the way I meant it to be, the whole idea for this particular home brew is that I want a world run by monsters and thats the result. I also want the player characters to follow a magical path and become monsters with power and madness and junk, I really DON'T want them sitting around NOT becoming magical. But if they DID go to the vast effort to remain entirely unmagical, unmonstrous and sane, well, they'll be weak...
The problem is there is not really any GREAT excuse for why EVERYONE isn't a monster, after all the magic makes you BETTER, makes you crazy so you also THINK you are even better than that, and is all crazy contagious like... I have a FEW minor excuses for the existence of normal humans in the places that matter, but... not really enough...
There are other things, but thats enough for now...
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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:34 am

Well, definately interesting. Takes a while to digest.
You said that different magics are antagonistic?
Maybe, if you have different magics in you at the same time of the same powers, they backlash on you or they make your highest power weaker by some amount?
Maybe the different magics 'can' be used at the same time, but unless there's a pecking order in a person that has more than one magic, they tend to be physically unstable.
So, if you want to shoot gouts of fire, your fire magic skill will be pretty high; but it can't be the same as your air magic skill.
So, you have to choose early on of you want to burn harder, or burn further/more accurate/faster shooting of your burning.
If not, and they're equal in ranks/power/whatever, and you try to use one.... the magics backlash and you take damage as well?
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PhoneLobster
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by PhoneLobster » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:09 am

> wrote:Maybe, if you have different magics in you at the same time of the same powers, they backlash on you or they make your highest power weaker by some amount?

This is still a design issue, and to some extent a problem with the setting.
I really have to decide, do I just want to let people have mixed magic or do I want to simply dissallow it?
I certainly won't be going with damaging backlashes. Its just not what I'm looking for.
I AM considering it causing some powers to be less powerful.
BUT not your best power, but rather your worst, and not so much less powerful but rather to enforce what amounts to level loss in magics opposing one that just advanced.
But I've been avoiding it because A) I'm not sure I want to rule out mixed characters and B) Thats rather complex.
At the moment there are only really a few mechanics in game which should influence, but not out right restrict mixed characters.
1) A Mixed character who is mostly of one sort of magic can CHOOSE to attempt to roll back level advancement in weaker opposed magics. They might well feel compelled to for fluff reasons, and because it means racking up more themes full of various disadvantages if they don't. If they don't, well I'm not entirely sure thats a bad thing yet.
2) Characters are considered to be allied to a specific type of magic, essentially their strongest magic level defines this. Level advancement is by magical corruption and it is considered to be something a character resists. You can opt to voluntarily forgo resistance checks against advanceing your main magic type, and so can advance faster in it than in other types. Meanwhile any advancement in any other magic type you MUST make a resistance roll against.
3) The resistance rolls are based off your levels in particular magic types. Your resistance roll is penalized by the level in the magic type you are trying to resist and has a bonus equal to the level of your highest opposing magic type. So if a character DOES want to advance their character in multiple magic types the greater the divergence in levels the harder it will be to advance the weaker types.
But right now there is really nothing absolutely stopping a character that juggles things carefully enough from slowly advancing pretty much all their magic types at fairly close to the same rate and having several characters worth of powers and disabilities piled on top of each other.
Some extra junk
I'm going to cover in slightly more detail exactly what I'm doing with the magic advancement, since I was probably a bit vague.
There are four types of magic.
Wild, which is natural magic, animal stuff, plant stuff, anything chaotic, passionate etc...
Lawful, which is anything civilized, constructed, orderly, abstract and controlled.
Pure, which is effectively superhuman self obsession to the point of defying the two previous sorts of magic. Among other things this settings undead are all purity characters that were so self confident they refuse to concede to even death itself.
Balanced, which is the combination of Wild and Lawful played carefully against each other to achieve things niether on their own can do. Gets some nice stuff like destruction, creation, time manipulation and some funky stuff that fits because of thematic reasons like weaving and spiders.
Basically all of them oppose each other one way or another.
Everything fits under one of those magic types and its not just "I'm a wizard" magic, monsters, machines, abstract concepts, everything falls under some part of the setting mythology and from a character's perspective gets advanced by that magic type.
Advancing levels in Wild can advance powers you get from say the Fire theme, which gives you fire magic (or perhaps more accurately turns you into a fire monster), OR it could advance your power in the Wolf monster theme (which is essentially fighter combat stuff, with teeth) OR it could advance both at once.
What I'm NOT sure about is if I want to make it so that advancing levels in Lawful "I'm a Clockwork Toy Monster" theme should mean you lose levels in your opposed "I'm a Big Scary Lizard" Wild theme...
EDIT: I'm just mentioning the mythology stuff for a bit of background on what I'm talking about, its really unimportant and there is virtually no value in it for anyone reading this, but it might make it more clear what I'm talking about in the parts of this which you MIGHT have some interest in if you know what the different magic types I'm talking about for character advancement actually are.
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RandomCasualty
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by RandomCasualty » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:29 pm

> PhoneLobster at [unixtime wrote:1171590775[/unixtime]]
> The problem is there is not really any GREAT excuse for why EVERYONE isn't a monster, after all the magic makes you BETTER, makes you crazy so you also THINK you are even better than that, and is all crazy contagious like... I have a FEW minor excuses for the existence of normal humans in the places that matter, but... not really enough...

Actually the fact that you become a monster is a pretty good reason not to do something. Imagine if you could in real life, gain telekinetic powers, but you would become horribly misshapen and deformed in return. Would you take it? I can figure that most people probably wouldn't take that deal.
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Desdan_Mervolam
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by Desdan_Mervolam » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:52 pm

Most people, no. But when we're talking about adventurers, we aren't talking most people, are we?
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RandomCasualty
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by RandomCasualty » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:15 pm

> Desdan_Mervolam at [unixtime wrote:1171806726[/unixtime]]Most people, no. But when we're talking about adventurers, we aren't talking most people, are we?

Well yeah, it's expected adventurers are going to take the trade, but I felt lobster was asking about normal people in the world, not just the PCs, since he already said that PCs had to become monsters.
Kind of sucks for people who want to play a charismatic ladies man or really any diplomatic concept given they've got to be a giant lizard or walking clockwork thing.
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PhoneLobster
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by PhoneLobster » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:26 pm

> RC wrote:Kind of sucks for people who want to play a charismatic ladies man

Thats OK because you can just become a charismatic ladies man monster.
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Catharz
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by Catharz » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:22 am

> PhoneLobster at [unixtime wrote:1171830373[/unixtime]]

> > RC wrote:Kind of sucks for people who want to play a charismatic ladies man

> Thats OK because you can just become a charismatic ladies man monster.

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PhoneLobster
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by PhoneLobster » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:50 am

I can't let that stand as the last post without comment.
So.
Yeah thats pretty much it, only with more sex and violence and less singing teapots.
But not ENTIRELY no singing teapots, there might be a few, really evil psycho ones.
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Phonelobster's Latest RPG Rule Set
The world's most definitive Star Wars Saga Edition Review
That Time I reviewed D20Modern Classes
Stories from Phonelobster's ridiculous life about local gaming stores, board game clubs and brothels
Australia is a horror setting thread
Phonelobster's totally legit history of the island of Malta
The utterly infamous Our Favourite Edition Is 2nd Edition thread
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RandomCasualty
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by RandomCasualty » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:27 pm

Sure, if your players are all fine with playing a nongeneric fantasy game where they're all monsters, then that's okay. Really the only problem is if you've got a player who doesn't want to be a monster thematically.
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PhoneLobster
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### Re: Home Brew now in Lobstervision

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Post by PhoneLobster » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:32 pm

> RC wrote: Sure, if your players are all fine with playing a nongeneric fantasy game where they're all monsters, then that's okay. Really the only problem is if you've got a player who doesn't want to be a monster thematically.

Yes, if someone wants, and against all odds manages, to stay away from EVEN the lame "I'm a ME monster" themes in the setting then they will pretty much suck.
But your comment raises several immediate points.
1) Players would also have a problem if thematically they wanted to play a film noir gumshoe. Its not in the setting so screw them. You sit down to play the monster game you play a monster.
2) Generic fantasy has all the support it needs and does nothing to support my monster game.
3) "Generic" fantasy is boring and Generic rules generically can kiss my generic ass. If your rules aren't crafted to support your specific setting SOMETHING IS WRONG.
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Phonelobster's Latest RPG Rule Set
The world's most definitive Star Wars Saga Edition Review
That Time I reviewed D20Modern Classes
Stories from Phonelobster's ridiculous life about local gaming stores, board game clubs and brothels
Australia is a horror setting thread
Phonelobster's totally legit history of the island of Malta
The utterly infamous Our Favourite Edition Is 2nd Edition thread
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