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## Best At-Will Ever

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Lago PARANOIA
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### Best At-Will Ever

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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:40 pm

I just noticed something.
Arcane Power, Wizard
Storm Pillar: At-Will * Arcane, Conjuration, Implement, Lightning
Effect: You conjure a piillar of crackling energy in an unoccupied square within range. The pillar occupies 1 square and lasts until the end of your next turn. Each enemy that moves into a square adjacent to the pillar takes 1d6 + your Intelligence modifier (+5) lightning damage.
Conjuration (Player's Handbook, page 220)
Unaffected by the Environment: Terrain and environmental phenomena have no effect on the conjuration. For example, a conjuration that is an icy hand functions in an inferno without penalty. The conjuration does not need to be supported by a solid surface, so it can float in the air.
Gee, if only wizards had an At-Will that let them move people...
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virgil
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Post by virgil » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:56 pm

So Storm Pillar is an improved Cloud of Daggers without its unclear area of effect?
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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Lago PARANOIA
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###

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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:05 pm

Pretty much. Mind, Cloud of Daggers does slightly more damage if it hits and has a function Storm Pillar can't replicate (damaging someone who doesn't move, like an artillery guy), but Storm Pillar's AoE is both larger, does more damage on average as it doesn't need a to-hit roll, and is more useful in a 3D environment.
But this really leads me to believe that the game designers did not really think things through for three dimensions. For example, I'm almost certain that it wasn't design intent for Arcane Gate, a power which creates two squares that people teleport between, to be a level 10 utility power that easily does 20d10 falling damage.
Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Lago PARANOIA
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###

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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:25 pm

You know, come to think about it, I wonder just how much 'RAI' it was for wizards to be able to throw Scorching Bursts right into the middle of melee at a dragon as long as it targets the head.
I mean, I can't see any game mechanical or thematic reasons why this wouldn't work. But I have the feeling that the game wasn't designed with the idea that wizards frag tall opponents with Flame Orb while their buddies are in melee.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:37 pm

> virgileso wrote:So Storm Pillar is an improved Cloud of Daggers without its unclear area of effect?

Can you hold my hand through this?
Cloud of Daggers hits a square, targets Int vs Ref, and does 1d6+INT dmg. Things that start or move through the square then take WIS dmg.
Storm Pillar looks like you drop it on one target and if that target moves, it gets hit for the same damage as CoD.
So how are these different other than the energy typing that SP gets?
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virgil
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Post by virgil » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:56 pm

I didn't notice that Storm Pillar didn't have the stationary effect that the Cloud of Daggers does.
And the ambiguity with Cloud of Daggers is that by the rules, it needs to be a burst or blast to affect an area, as the kind is important. If it's "Blast 1 square", then it's one square on the map, if it's "Burst 1 square" then it covers a 3x3 matrix. If it's a "Burst 0" area, then it'll be the same as "Blast 1".
Last edited by virgil on Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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hogarth
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Post by hogarth » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:03 pm

> mean_liar wrote:

> > virgileso wrote:So Storm Pillar is an improved Cloud of Daggers without its unclear area of effect?

> Can you hold my hand through this?
> Cloud of Daggers hits a square, targets Int vs Ref, and does 1d6+INT dmg. Things that start or move through the square then take WIS dmg.
> Storm Pillar looks like you drop it on one target and if that target moves, it gets hit for the same damage as CoD.
> So how are these different other than the energy typing that SP gets?

I gather the point is to put the Storm Pillar one square off the ground, so there are 9 "adjacent" squares on the ground that it can potentially damage. There's only one square that Cloud of Daggers can potentially damage.
Last edited by hogarth on Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:14 pm

Storm Pillar does not require a hit, either, unlike Cloud of Daggers. So a typical tactic would be to drop one of these bad boys right above the top of a monster's head (it's a conjuration, so can't be placed directly in the square), forcing it to take automatic damage or rooting it to the spot.
And if you have some effects which apply forced movement (wizards have two At-Wills), you can load up on damage. If your party is helping you, this can skyrocket very quickly. Fighter uses Tide of Iron, Warlord uses Opening Shove, Laser Cleric uses Command, and you use Phantom Bolt the next round. And it only targets enemies, too, adding to the hilarity.
It blocks movement altogether, denies a sizable chunk of the field to enemies, and doesn't require a to-hit roll in addition to doing large chunks of damage really quickly. It's really the Swiss Army Knife of At-Wills.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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virgil
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Post by virgil » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:38 pm

Cloud of Daggers only requires a hit for one part, it does auto-damage for the Effect equal to your Wisdom mod.
The perk with Cloud of Daggers is that when it's placed on enemies, they take the damage whether they stay or move out, unlike Storm Pillar; and if it's a 1 square burst, then it's an awesome minion churner.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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Lago PARANOIA
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  Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am

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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:15 am

> The perk with Cloud of Daggers is that when it's placed on enemies, they take the damage whether they stay or move out, unlike Storm Pillar;

What do you mean 'unlike' Storm Pillar? If they don't move out then if they're a melee monkey (which over 75% of the monsters in the MM are) then they lose their damn turn.
Cloud of Daggers is not a 1 square burst. It's an area attack that fills one square (while it should really just be a conjuration or even a zone, but whatever). You can't even modify it with feats like Enlarge Spell since it's not a blast or a burst.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:31 am

Thanks for the explanation. It seems that I too was stuck in flatland.
LOLlerskates. I guess I know what's getting errata'd... eventually... maybe.
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Psychic Robot
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Post by Psychic Robot » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:44 am

So what happens if someone walks into the middle of the pillar? And you know what would be cooler? If you could summon the pillar into an occupied square.

> Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.

> Ant wrote:

> > Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?

> You do not seem to do anything.

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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:58 am

You can't either walk into a square nor summon it into someone's square. Conjurations don't occupy a space unless it says they do and Storm Pillar says that it does.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Psychic Robot
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Post by Psychic Robot » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:11 am

Ah, so it's a tower of lighting that you can't walk through because it's made of solid lightning.
But it would still be cooler if you could summon it on someone.

> Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.

> Ant wrote:

> > Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?

> You do not seem to do anything.

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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:27 am

Summon it above their head. Same thing.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:54 am

> Psychic Robot wrote:Ah, so it's a tower of lighting that you can't walk through because it's made of solid lightning.

Nah, it's just the big-ass lightning generator/tesla coil.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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virgil
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Post by virgil » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:26 am

> Lago PARANOIA wrote:What do you mean 'unlike' Storm Pillar? If they don't move out then if they're a melee monkey (which over 75% of the monsters in the MM are) then they lose their damn turn.

The wording you gave included the quote of...

> Each enemy that moves into a square adjacent to the pillar takes

If you do not move or if you move out of a square adjacent to the pillar, you take no damage.
The problem is that if it's supposed to be one square, then they should've written it as a "Burst 0" area, not "1 square". We have area types for a reason.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:35 am

Not a tower. A ball.
Like this:
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:39 am

And if you place it directly over their head, every square they could possibly move into is adjacent to the pillar. So if they do anything besides stand completely still, losing their turn, they take damage.
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Koumei
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Post by Koumei » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:52 am

> Kaelik wrote:And if you place it directly over their head, every square they could possibly move into is adjacent to the pillar. So if they do anything besides stand completely still, losing their turn, they take damage.

Or shooting you. And still it's only one enemy that is in the "pinned or zapped" area - all other ones can move out. Now it's not a bad power - especially if your friends take turns shoving the enemy about - but it's not super amazing.
And sadly, it just about IS one of the more amazing things for 4E.

> Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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Aktariel
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Post by Aktariel » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:01 am

Heh. Fortunately my DM is not a complete dick, so he lets me use enlarge spell on Cloud of Daggers, because he assumes it's essentially a "Burst 0."
One question I do have though, does Cloud of Daggers target allies? Hell, does sleep or icy terrain? If not, or if so, can someone point me to the page that has those rules?
<something clever>
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:05 am

Aktariel: the power description tells you whether it targets enemies or allies.

> Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
> In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.

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Psychic Robot
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Post by Psychic Robot » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:30 am

> Kaelik wrote:And if you place it directly over their head, every square they could possibly move into is adjacent to the pillar. So if they do anything besides stand completely still, losing their turn, they take damage.

Wizards having a useful controller ability? BROKEN.

> Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.

> Ant wrote:

> > Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?

> You do not seem to do anything.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:33 am

I was just contradicting virgileso because he's being retarded, not making a comment about it's power.
Personally, it's good for a Wizard at-will. I'd take it, but it's certainly not broken.
Of course, opinions may vary since the other thread consists entirely of mean liar and RC arguing about how any character even remotely worth playing is a broken monstrosity of terror that must be nerfed hard and now.
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virgil
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Post by virgil » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:05 am

I meant to also state it's only really able to auto-damage one monster, and it still has the option of not moving; while Cloud of Daggers damages no matter what your victim does.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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