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## AArrrrrrg!!

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User3
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### AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by User3 » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:33 pm

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I will probably give a lead in first.
I recent;y joined a game where I was more or less told I needed to play a fey'ri. Now, as I really do this as a favor, I figured, sure, it'd be a new thing to play.
So, teh DM had his friend send over a SS progression. Ow. Just OW.
The Fey'ri is at most a LA 3 race. The SS progression? 4 levels.
It was also incorrectly written in that it didn;t use the Outsider template. (Outsiders don't get 2+Int skills per level. >_>)
Fine, I thought, I have a copy of PgtF I can get access to. Looked through it. It was 3e. (and.. umm.. badly written, what a surprise. I mean, would you argue that Dimension Door is worth an entire level?, or say, DR 10/+1 ... I may argue the Enervation 1/day being worth.. no, it's not eitehr. Darn it.)
So. In summary, what IS the Fey'ri converted to 3.5e? And why are it's DC's based on CHA when you get a bonus to INT?
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MrWaeseL
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by MrWaeseL » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:48 pm

spell-like and supernatural DC's are always off Cha.
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Fwib
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Fwib » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:03 pm

3.5 Fey'ri is in the PGtF web enhancement, here. Unless I'm missing something about how powerful the change shape ability is (cba to look over the shapechanging errata) I don't see how it is worth +2 LA, much less how 1/day SLAs are worth +1 extra...
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Cielingcat
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Cielingcat » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:29 pm

Remember what we're dealing with here. This is the Savage Species progression.
CHICKENS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO COCAINE, SILKY HEN

> Josh_Kablack wrote:You are not a unique and precious snowflake, you are just one more fucking asshole on the internet who presumes themselves to be better than the unwashed masses.

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Catharz
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Catharz » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:10 am

Fiend of Possession?
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NineInchNall
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by NineInchNall » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:41 am

Fiend of Possession so broketastic ... SO good ... Nonexistent in my games ...
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Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
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User3
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by User3 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:46 am

I Think the DM Would ban on site.
Update, though.
I.. found the FEy'ri block. No given clue what they get for skills, but..
They get this.
* Change SHape(humanoid) -> (Special Abilites, d20srd.org)
* Elven Blood (I.. guess that means the profs?)
* Outsider (native) {Darkvision, Prof (simple, martial)}
* +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con.
* +2 LA
Iguess they MIGHT get Stealthy, but I think that's becaue the example is a 1st level warrior. They also get a mess of skilsl i can't decipher.
(Oh, if I take DR 10/magic, or Dimesion Door 1/day, or Enneveration 1/day, it's LA +3.)
(It got randomly nerfed, they lose 4 abilites.)
So.. I'm thining of askign that it's really +1LA, or .. well, I'm thinking of abusing Change SHape, but I can't tell how. The version on d20 containst he latest errata, but.. (for that matter, what class do I Take?)
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Cielingcat
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Cielingcat » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:54 am

That looks like LA +0 to me, but I don't think your DM would go for that.
CHICKENS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO COCAINE, SILKY HEN

> Josh_Kablack wrote:You are not a unique and precious snowflake, you are just one more fucking asshole on the internet who presumes themselves to be better than the unwashed masses.

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AlphaNerd
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by AlphaNerd » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:25 pm

Elven blood simply means that you count as elven for things like PrCs and magic items.
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Fwib
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Fwib » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:32 pm

What are the properties of the shapechanging at will ability, after all the errata-ing is applied?
If it is essentially a built-in hat of disguise, then I can see LA+0, but if you get buffs from it, then that should be worth something, no?
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dbb
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by dbb » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:06 pm

The good news is, if you're dealing with Fey'ri, you're probably in Faerun, and that means Change Shape -> Avariel to gain flight is a possibility since movement modes are one of the few things Change Shape does give you. The bad news is, +2 LA is still probably too high for that, unless you're starting at a very low level. It's certainly not worth four levels -- hopefully the PGtF revision was enough to get the DM off the crack pipe on that score.
LA races always get screwed on hit points, and you get screwed even worse because of the Con penalty. That means you won't be playing anything that actually gets into combat (the Avariel shape should come in handy here), and, because you have an LA, you'll want to play a class that is generally more effective than its level would indicate. That leaves you with basically three options:
1> Blaster cleric. This is certainly evocative and in-theme for a Fey'ri, and it does permit you to walk around in armor + Magic Vestment (eventually), and of course clerics are always a good time. But your stat mods don't really agree with it. If you choose to go this route, remember that the LA will cause your Undead Turning to suck, so you probably want to pick up something like Divine Spell Power or Divine Metamagic so you get some actual use out of your turning attempts.
2> Archer Cleric. You get free Bow proficiency, and you're an Elf, and you're in Faerun, which means you can grab some of those wacky elven gods that give awesome Archer Cleric domains and go to town. Since you basically get everything you actually require to be an effective archer for free with this setup, there's no reason you can't combine with #1, which will help counterbalance the fact that it will take a lot longer than normal for you to get all the usual cleric archer cheese off the ground.
3> Wizard. And this is where, in my opinion, the action really is. You've got a positive Int mod, you've got a low Con, you've got combat flight (assuming the DM doesn't nerf this). Be a wizard, pick a bunch of Save-or-Dies, and fly around the battlefield flinging them. You can exploit Alter Self into Ice Mephit form for small size, perfect maneuverability, and improved natural armor. The shapechanging ability and the demonic heritage make Illusion, Enchantment, and Transmutation good schools to focus on, which is fine because those schools are awesome anyway. Yes, you'll always be two levels behind, which is one spell level behind, but thanks to your Int mod, your spell DCs (which frankly are all that's really important) will be just as good.
--d.
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Brobdingnagian
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Brobdingnagian » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:08 pm

Physical traits maybe?
Like, "I change shape bugbear, I get +4 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON. I'm awesome". Or something like that.
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Iaimeki
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Iaimeki » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:53 pm

The PGtF update only adds stuff to the original entry, and updates the warrior to match it. The fey'ri has actually been published in at least two different sources, Monsters of Faerun and Races of Faerun, and there are subtle differences between the two; the PGtF update applies to the Monsters of Faerun version. Here's my best guess of what 3.5 by-the-book Fey'ri actually get:

- Outsider (native).
- +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con.
- Medium-size.
- 30' base land speed, fly 40' (poor).
- Darkvision 60'
- Low-light vision.
- Immunity to sleep effects.
- +2 bonus on Will saves versus enchantments.
- Change shape (any humanoid form).
- Four special abilities from the following list: charm person 1/day, clairaudience/clairvoyance 1/day, damage reduction 10/magic, darkness 1/day, detect thoughts 1/day, dimension door 1/day, enervation 1/day, fire resistance 10, suggestion 1/day, +2 racial bonus on saves vs. electricity, +2 racial bonus on saves vs. poison. Their spell-like abilities have a caster level equal to 1 or their character level, whichever is greater. They may only have one of damage reduction, dimension door, or enervation.
- +2 bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Spot, and Search checks.
- Elven blood.
- Favored class sorcerer.
- LA +2 unless they have damage reduction, dimension door, or enervation, in which case they're LA +3.

If you're a PC-type race, change shape is the sucky version of shapeshifting, because it more or less means you retain all your own stats. (It's awesome for dragons, because it means they can look like humans and still throw people across rooms with massive Str.) About the only useful thing you can do with it is get movement modes. (Swim is easy, and there are humanoids with better flight than fey'ri get inherently, IIRC.)
Fey'ri do get some crazy abilities: the flight, stat mods, and outsider type easily make them LA +1. I can see an argument for LA +2. Of course, as we all know, LA is a horribly broken system, so the real answer is that the race isn't really playable.
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MrWaeseL
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by MrWaeseL » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:02 pm

Aargh, how is Envervation or Dimension Door once per day worth a level? Jesus Christ.
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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:15 pm

ASk to look like a FEy'ri, but tell the DM that you just want to play a normal human that looks like a FEy'ri.
Get yourself called a Half-FRy'ri.
Also, state that you're willing to take extra class levels to make up for the level adjustment you lost for not being one.
Remember kids, always make it look like you're taking a sub-optimal choice to confuse your foes into agreeing to do what you want.
In this case, play a human, since most people think they are boring, or suck.
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Username17
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Username17 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:22 pm

Change Shape has an... unfortunate set of rules right now. Really unfortunate as it happens. Here's a sample:

> Monster Manual Errata wrote:Replace Line 2 of the changes with the following text:
> —The creature loses the natural weapons, natural
> armor, and movement modes of its original form, as
> well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original
> form not derived from class levels (such as the
> barbarian’s rage class feature).

Ugh. It's awful. Reading thorugh the line by line alteration of that ability is a god awful mess. But here's the deal:

- Your ability scores don't change.
- You gain Extraordinary Special Attacks.
- You replace your natural weapons and movement modes with that of the new critter.

---
What does this mean? It means that you should spend almost your entire life as a Dark Stalker (Fiend Folio, p. 39) as this gives you 3 dice of sneak attack and Poison Use.
So... is it worth it? Probably yeah. You spend 2 levels and get jack shit for it except 6 levels worth of Sneak Attack. It's an eggshell with a hammer - trivially easy to kill (2 hit dice down with a Con penalty), but it has offensive ability that will curl your hair.
---
By the way: as written in the fvcking web enhancement you get DR of 10/Magic for free (it's listed in the basic stat block before offering you an additional LA for DR). This is obviously a typographical error and you don't even give a fvck. Ask your DM to let you have the Fey'ri's "normal" bonuses from Races of Faerun instead.
That would make you look like this:

- +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con
- Medium Size
- Land Speed 30', Flying 40' (Poor) - both replaced in Changed Shape.
- Darkvision 60 feet.
- Low Light Vision
- Immunity to Sleep
- +2 Bonus on Will Saves against enchantment.
- Change Shape (Su): Any Small, Medium, or Large Humanoid shape at will.
- +2 Bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Search, and Spot.
- Outsider (Native) Type
- Proficiency with all martial weapons and Light Armor.
- Elven Blood: Treated as an Elf for purposes of effects that care.
- Choose four special abilities off the master list:
  - 1/day charm person
  - 1/day clairvoyance
  - 1/day darkness
  - 1/day detect thoughts
  - 1/day suggestion
  - Continuous Fire Resistance 10
  - Continuous +2 Bonus on saves vs. Electricity (yes, really)
  - Continuous +2 Bonus on Saves vs. Poison.
- You may replace any one of those abilities with 1/day dimension door, 1/day enervation, or continuous DR of 10/Magic at the cost of an additional +1 LA, but if you do so you're dumb.

OK, that's their list. It's pretty long and dumb, but if you play your cards right (which is to say that you take Fire Resistance 10, Suggestion, Charm Person, and Clairvoyance and spend all your time as a Dark Stalker or an Avariel) you can be a really deadly murder machine and a decent enough face at the expense of simply being extremely easy to kill.
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User3
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by User3 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:47 pm

> Iaimeki at [unixtime wrote:1174495982[/unixtime]]
> [*] Four special abilities from the following list: charm person 1/day, clairaudience/clairvoyance 1/day, damage reduction 10/magic, darkness 1/day, detect thoughts 1/day, dimension door 1/day, enervation 1/day, fire resistance 10, suggestion 1/day, +2 racial bonus on saves vs. electricity, +2 racial bonus on saves vs. poison. Their spell-like abilities have a caster level equal to 1 or their character level, whichever is greater. They may only have one of damage reduction, dimension door, or enervation.

One of these things is not like the other ...
Seriously, if I could just take Suggestion 1/day four times, I think I'd totally do that.
--d.
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Judging__Eagle
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Judging__Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:26 pm

That or grab DR 10/Magic 4 times.
DR 40/Magic isn't too shabby.
I'd buy a bunch of Anti-magic Torcs to make sure I'd be able to kill stuff easily.
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Username17
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by Username17 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:42 pm

You can't actually take any of the optionals more than once, nor can you take more than one pick off the choices that will give you a level adjustment increase.
It's not actually worth it to take any of the LA increasing ones, though dimension door and DR are sort of tempting.
Fey'ri are only good as Rogues as it happens. You can make a pretty good face/face stabber. Any other characters are screwed before you even start looking around for your options.
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MrWaeseL
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by MrWaeseL » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:04 pm

> FrankTrollman wrote:It's not actually worth it to take any of the LA increasing ones, though dimension door [is] sort of tempting.

Even once per day?
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User3
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### Re: AArrrrrrg!!

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Post by User3 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:29 pm

Oh, I should add, I'm sort of assuming you're not playing in a group of serious character optimizers. A primary spellcaster is still pretty effective in a group of casual players -- if the rest of the party might seriously consider taking Weapon Focus, you'll be fine.
If the rest of the players are actually good at optimizing characters -- in which case making you play a Fey'ri can only be construed as some sort of cruel hazing process -- then you're sort of screwed if you try that, as the non-LA spellcasters will make you cry.
--d.
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