[00:02.960 --> 00:12.740]  I've told you many times, where you go. Times are hard when you're here.
[00:13.300 --> 00:23.840]  I've told you many times, where you go. Times are hard when you're here.
[01:19.360 --> 01:25.360]  What's up? Oh, you didn't add me to the stage. Welcome. I am your host, Bob Mata. You are
[01:25.360 --> 01:32.280]  now here at Defense Diaries. And this is our continuing coverage of the state of Indiana
[01:32.280 --> 01:41.500]  versus Richard Allen. We are day four of the trial. Another exciting day in court. A lot
[01:41.500 --> 01:49.200]  went down. It was no alley today. It was me solo and just a little bit of a primer. I
[01:49.200 --> 01:54.840]  was late. I was late to court. I got shut out for the first witness. Well, the end
[01:54.840 --> 02:06.540]  of the first witness, as he had started yesterday. And so I didn't make it in there. I ran
[02:06.540 --> 02:14.180]  into a little construction issue this morning. It sent me on a different path. And I had never
[02:14.180 --> 02:21.600]  taken it. And so I make this turn onto 421. And there's this big lake. And this is a
[02:21.600 --> 02:25.460]  bridge that happens to go across that I get all the way down a couple of miles down.
[02:25.700 --> 02:31.080]  Doesn't show up on my GPS that there's construction. And the road's closed. I'm like,
[02:31.080 --> 02:39.560]  So I try to take another road. My GPS weighs. Google is not showing me any alternate routes.
[02:40.700 --> 02:46.460]  I get lost. I drive down into a dead end. I'm like, oh my God, we're never going to make
[02:46.460 --> 02:54.860]  it. So I ended up making it to the court at about 10 after nine. And once witness is on the
[02:54.860 --> 03:02.900]  There's no getting in. And she has changed it. She changed the rules. It used to be,
[03:03.340 --> 03:10.300]  you could go in every time a new witness was taking the stand. You could go in while they
[03:10.300 --> 03:18.700]  were changing. Now she has changed it to you only get in when there's a break. So I wasn't
[03:18.700 --> 03:27.540]  overly concerned with it. Because to be honest with you, I felt pretty confident. All we were
[03:27.540 --> 03:39.660]  going to be seeing was the continuation of Olahi. And he was basically going to be
[03:39.660 --> 03:46.220]  putting in the physical evidence, which we had heard and seen all the photographs of
[03:46.860 --> 03:54.400]  So, you know, it wasn't the end of the world, really. It was. But I heard that Brad did a
[03:54.400 --> 04:02.100]  pretty, Rosie did a pretty good cross examination of her. And luckily, I got friends. Andrea was
[04:02.100 --> 04:09.960]  kind enough to send me her notes. I'm like, I only want Rosie's. I only want Rosie's
[04:09.960 --> 04:14.260]  cross examination. So before I do that, I should probably introduce my beautiful,
[04:14.260 --> 04:19.820]  brilliant co-host Allie. What's up, babe? Hey, babe. Hey, y'all. How are you? As you guys can see,
[04:19.820 --> 04:24.780]  I tried to move to a kind of a more cozy situation. Lighting is a little weird. We have
[04:24.780 --> 04:30.600]  kind of like we bought a light for Allie when she was here. She left it for me. And it's,
[04:31.580 --> 04:34.980]  but it looks cozy, right? It's better than kind of sitting in the kitchen with
[04:34.980 --> 04:40.040]  yeah, a blank wall behind me. And I'm in the comfort of my standard operating studio.
[04:40.040 --> 04:47.300]  So I don't have to fidget with my hair a lot and mess with anything. Everything's just
[04:47.300 --> 04:52.780]  don't let the trolls get to you. Like, no, but I was noticing like, I think it's I do it like
[04:52.780 --> 04:59.360]  when I'm like nervous or, you know, like, I mean, the weird thing is, it's like people
[04:59.360 --> 05:04.240]  must not have met me. I mean, you come at my wife, we're gonna have a problem. You can
[05:04.240 --> 05:12.240]  me all day. You come to my wife, we're gonna have a problem. So don't do it.
[05:12.980 --> 05:15.920]  So what'd you kind of do? You like moved into like the little TV?
[05:15.920 --> 05:20.800]  I moved into the living room area, I reshifted one of the comfort chairs here,
[05:20.860 --> 05:27.800]  I moved a little table into like, it's a small it's actually a candle holder, but I put
[05:28.440 --> 05:34.560]  a couple game boards under it, like a thick jeopardy game in the Scrabble deluxe edition
[05:34.560 --> 05:39.760]  that we were contemplating battling each other, put them under the computer to lift it about
[05:39.760 --> 05:44.780]  the right eye level. But like, you can kind of see this weird shadow, it's because
[05:44.780 --> 05:52.360]  the light doesn't go up any higher than that. So but it's like, it's much more comfortable,
[05:52.380 --> 05:56.220]  like I'm in a really nice comfortable seat. I think the sound is good.
[05:57.560 --> 06:03.040]  And it's good. It's a good little setup. This is going to be my setup moving forward. So
[06:03.040 --> 06:09.200]  so as I said, I was late today. But I but Andrea Burcar was nice enough to send me all
[06:09.200 --> 06:16.340]  her notes. And I am going to she sent me all of them like I just want the I just want the
[06:17.840 --> 06:21.420]  the cross examination, but she was kind enough to send them all to me. She
[06:21.420 --> 06:26.960]  good. You can you can see if there's some of her writing is immaculate. So like right right
[06:26.960 --> 06:31.060]  there. I wish I could just pay her to buy her notes every day. That would be awesome.
[06:32.400 --> 06:40.700]  I don't have to do it. Yeah. Don't worry. Don't worry there. I did rearrange it. But
[06:40.700 --> 06:44.920]  it's very it's literally a shifting of one chair about four feet. And that's about it
[06:44.920 --> 06:49.400]  and moving this little thing. It'll look like when I leave, it'll be put right back
[06:49.400 --> 06:55.680]  way it was very simple. But instruction, you know, I did. Yeah, I put up a few shelves,
[06:56.520 --> 07:01.900]  created a new like a new closet area. It's pretty cool. But really the reason that I
[07:01.900 --> 07:05.760]  did it aside from changing the location is I wanted to try to hook up to the ethernet,
[07:06.240 --> 07:12.300]  which I did. So hopefully we have a nice strong signal because we are a little remote.
[07:12.800 --> 07:21.300]  Okay, so we are day four. Like I said, it was Olahi was continuing under direct.
[07:22.640 --> 07:27.660]  And in I see questions, we will definitely get to them. I promise I promise today was an
[07:27.660 --> 07:32.900]  exciting day. Today. Today was a day I wish that you were there. I think you would have
[07:33.860 --> 07:43.420]  enjoyed the day. So they continue and right now what they're doing is in terms of this
[07:43.420 --> 07:49.340]  testimony, they're getting into the process of entering all of the physical evidence,
[07:49.820 --> 07:57.620]  which we saw the photographs of yesterday into evidence. So like the actual shirts,
[07:57.620 --> 08:03.340]  the actual bandana, the actual camisole, all that stuff. That's they want to put the
[08:03.340 --> 08:08.420]  physical evidence into evidence as well, which is a different process than putting a picture in.
[08:10.260 --> 08:17.680]  Alright, so everything is given a case ID for individual incident, under which all
[08:17.680 --> 08:22.260]  reports can be referred to. So the reports, sub reports, lab reports can all have a reference
[08:22.260 --> 08:27.640]  number. We're obviously used to that, Alison, in terms of EV numbers is what we typically call
[08:27.640 --> 08:34.380]  them. And it's kind of they use their own management system in terms of file management.
[08:36.840 --> 08:40.460]  So everything that you're going to be looking at, but those EV numbers are different than
[08:40.460 --> 08:44.340]  the numbers that they're getting, obviously, a trial. So they're kind of going numerically.
[08:45.340 --> 08:50.620]  McLeanland jumps around a little bit. So does the defense as far as points of evidence.
[08:50.620 --> 08:56.860]  Before I jump into that, Alison and I talked and we thought that it would probably
[08:58.520 --> 09:05.680]  behoove us to just clarify how I have a reserve seat in the courtroom every day
[09:05.680 --> 09:10.920]  through the end of trial. So like this constant thing of wondering whether or not
[09:10.920 --> 09:16.940]  I'm going to be in there, I'm in there through the end. So there's no confusion because
[09:18.580 --> 09:24.160]  no one no one knows my business and I'll say make it their business. If people ask me,
[09:24.160 --> 09:32.260]  I tell them. But Cathy Allen had requested that I sit in one of her seats because
[09:32.260 --> 09:37.700]  I think that she's listened to our content over the past couple of years. I think that
[09:37.700 --> 09:44.340]  she finds Alison and I to be very objective. This isn't a thing where because Cathy Allen
[09:44.340 --> 09:48.820]  has all the faith in the world that her husband's innocent, but she doesn't know she's in the
[09:48.820 --> 09:53.480]  exact same position that we are. And she thought that she was going to be excluded
[09:53.480 --> 10:00.900]  from the courtroom right after openings. Like as soon as they started putting witnesses is because
[10:00.900 --> 10:07.540]  Cathy is scheduled to testify. She's a witness on the list. She's going to be testifying
[10:07.540 --> 10:15.620]  trial. So she would be beholden to the separation agreement. Now, obviously, discussions were
[10:15.620 --> 10:22.020]  probably had between defense counsel and McClellan state and they tried to work something out
[10:22.020 --> 10:26.260]  because she's been in there. That doesn't mean we were surprised that she was. I'm still
[10:26.260 --> 10:31.380]  surprised. I ask her every day. I'm like, Are you still in here? So, you know, she had
[10:31.380 --> 10:35.640]  asked me she's like, Look, I just, you know, obviously, if she's testifying, I can't come
[10:35.640 --> 10:40.680]  out and tell her what people are testifying to because that would until after she's released
[10:40.680 --> 10:44.480]  from her post after she's released and but wouldn't at which point she'd be sitting in
[10:44.480 --> 10:48.980]  there anyway. But, you know, what I told her is I'm going to give you the straight
[10:48.980 --> 10:52.300]  up. It's going to be good, better and different. You know, I'm not going to
[10:52.300 --> 10:58.200]  sugarcoat anything because a lot of times when you have a client like our account,
[10:58.200 --> 11:02.040]  like Ali and I have a client and, you know, we're trying to deal with their families.
[11:02.820 --> 11:09.280]  Number one, we have privilege and confidentiality with our clients. We can't really tell their
[11:09.280 --> 11:13.520]  families anything. And then when you move to the point where you're a trial,
[11:14.880 --> 11:19.460]  you're trying to be optimistic for the families because she didn't want the overly
[11:19.460 --> 11:23.320]  optimistic view once her subpoena was over of what had transpired.
[11:25.240 --> 11:29.880]  Exactly. Like I mean, she just wanted an honest evaluation of how the case was going
[11:29.880 --> 11:35.480]  from, you know, a couple of people that do it and have done it for a long time
[11:35.480 --> 11:41.300]  and who she respects and trusts. I mean, it's kind of that simple. So, you know,
[11:41.300 --> 11:46.340]  and I've explained this a million times. If you don't think that Richard Allen's mother
[11:46.340 --> 11:52.700]  and his wife Kathy are victims in this, I mean, they're obviously different than
[11:53.540 --> 11:57.400]  Libby and Abby, clearly. And they're obviously different types of victims than,
[11:57.400 --> 12:05.480]  you know, the families. But their lives have been destroyed. And they are destroyed,
[12:06.120 --> 12:11.680]  I would estimate permanently, whether he's found guilty or innocent. He's found guilty.
[12:11.780 --> 12:16.560]  They're obviously destroyed and they're going to have to try to rebuild somewhere,
[12:17.050 --> 12:27.380]  you know, with the knowledge that he's now convicted and either he did it and he's a
[12:27.380 --> 12:32.340]  fight to get his way out. Or, in the alternative, if he's acquitted,
[12:33.920 --> 12:39.000]  the people that think that he's guilty don't care what juries have to say. They don't
[12:39.000 --> 12:43.480]  care that he's been acquitted. They're going to, like, their whole life, everything that
[12:43.480 --> 12:51.260]  they once knew for these 20, 30 years that they've been married has been destroyed by this
[12:51.260 --> 12:57.140]  case. And if that was Richard Allen's fault, that's what we're here to see. If it wasn't,
[12:57.140 --> 13:02.240]  he sits in there an innocent man, well, then I would hope that everybody out there would have
[13:02.240 --> 13:08.100]  sympathy for her either way, for both of those women, because they're going through it. So,
[13:08.660 --> 13:16.060]  I have a lot of respect for both of them. I think that they're both very strong, strong
[13:16.060 --> 13:22.760]  women who are kind of powering through an unthinkable situation. And like Bob said,
[13:22.760 --> 13:29.480]  this will be the last event. We're done with it. The Allen family does not know all the
[13:29.480 --> 13:35.500]  evidence. That's not something they're privy to. So, if they were excluded from the courtroom,
[13:35.560 --> 13:41.300]  and then once their subpoena was over, they still wouldn't know any of that information. So,
[13:41.420 --> 13:44.760]  that's why he says they're just like us as far as hearing the evidence.
[13:45.180 --> 13:49.340]  Yeah, they don't know anything. Like, they honestly don't know anything. There's like,
[13:49.340 --> 13:56.260]  we don't share... like, when we have cases, we are not sharing our client's case with his
[13:56.260 --> 14:03.240]  family, no matter how much they want to know. It's just not how it's done. And everything,
[14:03.320 --> 14:08.900]  especially in a case where there's a gag. I mean, they can't go talk to Kathy, because
[14:08.900 --> 14:12.940]  she's not their client. So, and it's a case that's gagged, which would include...
[14:13.800 --> 14:20.240]  And, you know, I mean, there's a couple of orders. I just can't talk about it. So,
[14:20.380 --> 14:25.360]  you know, she's in the same place. Wait, there was one other thing I wanted to say.
[14:25.740 --> 14:33.060]  Can't remember what it was. Maybe it'll come to me. So, all right, let's get into it a bit.
[14:35.580 --> 14:41.780]  Okay, so the first thing that they entered into evidence was item number 137, which
[14:41.780 --> 14:48.660]  is a bag containing a black and white Nike, size 10, recovered from Deer Creek, collected at
[14:48.660 --> 14:56.460]  Seen. Sergeant Cody had it in the drying room, and he packaged it. The sticker indicates that
[14:56.460 --> 15:05.020]  it has been entered in the lab system. 138 was a bag containing a pair of Hollister blue jeans,
[15:05.020 --> 15:12.800]  waist 26, length 33 from Deer Creek. 139 is a bag containing a color tone brand tie-dyed
[15:13.340 --> 15:21.320]  t-shirt, size extra large. 140 is a bag with gray, no boundaries hoodie, size medium.
[15:23.860 --> 15:30.380]  141 is a pair of underwear from Deer Creek. 142 is a black and purple sock. We were both
[15:30.380 --> 15:34.940]  from Deer Creek. Oh, 143, pink sock.
[15:38.060 --> 15:47.980]  Memory is a crazy thing. I was sure it was orange. And I want to ask you, and sorry,
[15:48.120 --> 15:50.860]  because maybe you don't know or maybe you're going to get to it, but before I forget,
[15:50.900 --> 15:56.300]  and it was a question that one of our viewers had asked. It took a little screenshot of it,
[15:56.300 --> 16:05.260]  I remembered who asked it. It was Hannah-201. She says were Abby's shoes she was wearing
[16:05.260 --> 16:11.460]  wet also. I don't remember them talking about that. I don't remember them talking about it
[16:11.460 --> 16:22.220]  either. I don't know that it was asked. I kind of had this weird vision that if they
[16:22.220 --> 16:29.690]  in fact crossed the creek that the killer may have told them to take off their shoes and or
[16:31.120 --> 16:34.970]  at least take off their shoes because I kind of like wet shoes are hard to
[16:36.100 --> 16:40.290]  walk in. I don't know. They like popped in my head. I don't know why.
[16:41.220 --> 16:49.480]  All right. So 144 was a green head scarf. 145 was a bag, black faded spaghetti strap
[16:49.480 --> 16:56.080]  shirt, size large from Deer Creek, also known as the camisole, also known as a tank top.
[16:56.660 --> 17:04.400]  One item collected from ground zero, Lafayette. It was brought to the Lafayette post.
[17:06.620 --> 17:17.380]  Okay, so 146 is a converse right tennis shoe. 147 is the converse shoe left from
[17:19.820 --> 17:27.260]  Abbey. 148 is a 40 caliber Smith and Wesson cartridge. Now that's
[17:27.260 --> 17:35.120]  kind of when you look at the EV numbers, it's kind of helpful because a lot of times when
[17:36.520 --> 17:41.540]  they're putting, when you see like the evidence markers at a scene, they're going
[17:41.540 --> 17:48.200]  at, they're going at it kind of numerically. So as they find evidence around the house.
[17:49.320 --> 17:52.820]  So I mean, that's kind of a pretty good indicator that they're being
[17:54.460 --> 17:58.080]  forthcoming about when they discovered it kind of in the scope of things,
[17:58.380 --> 18:02.100]  you know, somewhere in that time frame. It's like, it's not jammed in at the end.
[18:02.760 --> 18:09.060]  Like if you see it, and it's got like, well, actually, I take that all back. This is for
[18:09.060 --> 18:12.360]  anyway, it'd be like, we'd have to see what the actual EV number is.
[18:14.340 --> 18:21.420]  Oh, man. I was like, I didn't see any little, I didn't see any little watch McCallity.
[18:22.920 --> 18:29.100]  My brain's, I can't think, you know, like lab evidence markers, markers at the scene or
[18:29.100 --> 18:35.360]  anything. But the lab usually does numbers up as it comes in, the lab will give its own
[18:35.360 --> 18:39.120]  There was none relating to the, to the
[18:41.660 --> 18:46.200]  casing, to the unspent round. There was, they didn't have an evidence marker for that.
[18:46.700 --> 18:52.600]  All right. So 149 was a strand of material taken from between the fingers of Abby's
[18:52.600 --> 19:01.800]  right hand. They called it material. And so 150 is a strand of material taken from
[19:01.800 --> 19:15.040]  Abby's left arm. So 151 is a swab from the inside of Libby's left wrist. 152 is a swab
[19:15.040 --> 19:22.000]  from the inside of Libby's right wrist. 153, and we're talking about buckle swabs for DNA.
[19:22.960 --> 19:30.460]  153 is a swab from above Libby's belly button. 154 was a swab of the thigh above
[19:30.460 --> 19:40.300]  the knee of Libby. 155 was a strand of fibrous material from the pinky finger of Libby's left
[19:40.300 --> 19:48.220]  hand. Fibrous material from Libby's left hand. 156, a swab of a blood stain on a tree,
[19:48.640 --> 19:55.500]  four inches above ground level. 157, black Nike tennis shoes under Abby's body.
[19:57.740 --> 20:05.520]  158, a swab from blood on the ground between markers three and four. 159, a swab from the
[20:05.520 --> 20:13.700]  ground near Libby's feet. 160, a swab from the ground directly below Libby's head. 161,
[20:13.840 --> 20:20.380]  a swab from the ground near the F-tree. 162, swab from the ground between F-tree
[20:20.380 --> 20:30.320]  and Abby's body. 163, swab of red stain below Abby's head. 164, swab from F-tree with red stains
[20:34.560 --> 20:40.340]  near the top of the north side of the tree. 165, swab from
[20:42.360 --> 20:49.720]  red stain on the F-tree, lower stain on the north side. 166, swab from
[20:49.720 --> 20:57.720]  the left index finger of Libby. 167, swab from the left pinky finger of Libby. 168,
[20:57.940 --> 21:07.620]  cell phone iPhone from scene under Abby's body. 169, Sergeant Gilbert collected swab
[21:08.760 --> 21:13.860]  from the cell... swab from the cell phone before processing.
[21:17.260 --> 21:21.440]  I was going to ask, did they swab the cell phone? Okay, so...
[21:24.360 --> 21:29.500]  and then he was in attendance on 215 in Terre Haute for the autopsy.
[21:31.220 --> 21:37.600]  Limited people have access to the temporary storage locker, which is where they maintain
[21:37.600 --> 21:43.380]  all these materials, all this evidence. Gilbert swabbed the phone before he handed it to the
[21:43.380 --> 21:51.200]  tech. On 216, they completed sealing, labeling, packaging, completing property record,
[21:51.760 --> 21:58.220]  and then gave them to the evidence clerk. All items were packaged individually. Stickers
[21:58.220 --> 22:06.200]  were applied one at a time. We get back to more evidence. This is from the autopsy. So,
[22:06.320 --> 22:12.300]  Olahi was at the autopsy. That is not unusual. You typically have... in evidence
[22:12.300 --> 22:18.280]  tech, you typically have... I don't know if there's any fingerprinting, T.
[22:19.420 --> 22:29.780]  I'm trying to read... she had another word here. So, cell phone... it says that...
[22:33.100 --> 22:42.450]  I want to get back. Swabbed? Yeah, I can't read it.
[22:43.630 --> 22:48.570]  I don't... it's definitely a swab. I don't think... I don't see anything about pulling prints,
[22:48.730 --> 22:53.550]  but that doesn't mean it wasn't done. I would hope that it was done. It would seem crazy
[22:53.550 --> 22:59.390]  that it wasn't, but... okay. So, again, you'll typically have an evidence tech,
[22:59.650 --> 23:04.230]  obviously, if you're collecting, you know, anything that would have been found under the
[23:04.230 --> 23:10.630]  fingernails. If there's, you know, any kind of other indication, there could be
[23:10.630 --> 23:15.610]  biological materials that aren't from one of the girls. They obviously want to be there.
[23:15.610 --> 23:21.430]  Any kind of evidence. If they find fibers, hairs, anything like that, they need to collect it
[23:23.050 --> 23:30.270]  from the autopsy itself. So, 170 was a swab in the left thigh of Libby. 171 was a swab
[23:30.270 --> 23:38.570]  from the right thigh of Libby. 172 was a swab from Libby's right breast. 173 was a swab
[23:38.570 --> 23:47.290]  from Libby's left breast. 174 was, just so people know, a sexual assault collection kit,
[23:47.290 --> 23:54.450]  also known as the R kit. 175, the sexual assault collection kit from Libby, or SA.
[23:55.370 --> 24:00.390]  176, trace fiber of Abby's upper left arm. Mullins collected stuff for drying.
[24:01.290 --> 24:07.670]  177, black hooded sweatshirt, two times two XL, Delphi swim team,
[24:07.990 --> 24:14.630]  had red stains. 178, blue jean size XL with red stains and dirt. 179,
[24:15.670 --> 24:22.450]  pink sleeveless shirt, unknown size with stains. 180, gray cotton bra
[24:23.310 --> 24:34.410]  with stains. Black bra with stains. 123, and that was 180, 181. Now we go back to 123,
[24:34.770 --> 24:40.730]  Abby autopsy photo showing pink sleeveless shirt, red stained areas, and lines indicating
[24:40.730 --> 24:47.930]  moisture wetness. Sweatshirt was damp on 214 and still damp the following day
[24:47.930 --> 24:58.310]  at the autopsy. They went in to Putnamville for drying. The cartridge, also known as the
[24:58.310 --> 25:05.390]  Winchester Smith & Wesson 40 caliber. So there was a four, that was all in 123.
[25:06.170 --> 25:13.830]  No, not the most common round anywhere. So that was obviously asked. 151, swab from Libby's
[25:13.830 --> 25:31.680]  left wrist. Okay. 152, Libby's right wrist. Okay. 153 from the belly button swab. 154,
[25:31.700 --> 25:43.150]  area above knee. 155, tree swab. Okay. Babe, can I interrupt you real quick?
[25:43.910 --> 25:50.070]  Yeah. Did, I was just noticing comments. Did the judge rule on the motion and
[25:50.070 --> 25:53.530]  lemonade about the expert or is that something you're going to get to later?
[25:53.830 --> 26:02.110]  She has not ruled on it as far as we are aware. Okay. Okay. So, Andrea has...
[26:04.770 --> 26:10.390]  So, okay, I'm sorry. We're now on the cross. Okay. So that this makes me way more sense.
[26:11.010 --> 26:16.650]  So Rosie asks, obviously, is this one of the most common rounds anywhere? 40 caliber,
[26:16.690 --> 26:24.270]  Smith & Wesson. He says, no, not the most common round anywhere. So 151 in relation to
[26:24.270 --> 26:33.590]  the swab from Libby's left wrist. Not our, not Rick Allen's DNA. 152, Libby's right wrist,
[26:33.650 --> 26:38.930]  not Rick Allen's. They didn't find his DNA there. The belly button swab, not Rick Allen.
[26:40.050 --> 26:47.730]  Above the knee, not Rick Allen. Tree swab, not Rick Allen. Swab between the markers,
[26:47.770 --> 26:56.670]  not Rick Allen. Swab from the ground. Objection. Speaking, the witness did not analyze. It was
[26:56.670 --> 27:02.470]  overruled. Objection relevance. Doesn't matter if he's aware or sustained. Ever speak of
[27:02.470 --> 27:09.640]  anyone involved in analysis concerning results. He says, I don't recall that.
[27:11.870 --> 27:18.000]  There's another objection to relevance because he says, are there any more results
[27:19.230 --> 27:27.310]  regarding info at the scene? And then McClellan objects saying relevance. Rosie is angry.
[27:27.310 --> 27:33.570]  It's highly relevant. Judge maybe, says maybe for another witness sustained.
[27:35.230 --> 27:40.590]  Integrity of the scene investigation are distinct. Doesn't want the scene
[27:41.410 --> 27:47.150]  info flowing out of the scene. Other side is physical integrity of the evidence.
[27:48.810 --> 27:54.290]  And then he's objected to, he interrupted, aware of information for breach of integrity.
[27:55.470 --> 28:01.990]  Crime scene, objection relevant. So it looks like Nick was pretty active with the objections
[28:01.990 --> 28:08.550]  here. No knowledge of the photos taken, the scene and leaked. So Rosie had asked a question
[28:08.550 --> 28:14.790]  obviously about... and he had brought it up. He talked about some leaked photos early on that
[28:14.790 --> 28:20.930]  were taken by civilians. Okay, so this was the thing, like as soon as I walked in and I
[28:20.930 --> 28:24.410]  could get in after the break, Andrea came up to me. She's like, oh my God, there was this
[28:24.410 --> 28:35.130]  thing where they went in and... because Rosie has a tendency to ask his kind of like opening
[28:35.130 --> 28:50.910]  salvo for a cross is, would you agree as a statement of the council's opinion? So
[28:50.910 --> 28:56.270]  Rosie's not saying, would you agree with me? He's like, would you agree? It's like it's used all
[28:56.270 --> 29:02.010]  the time. All the time. Standard operating procedure. It's the exact same thing as saying
[29:02.010 --> 29:10.290]  correct at the end. Correct? It's just like she sustained it. So she then directed the
[29:10.290 --> 29:15.310]  defense so they could no longer say any of them and say, would you agree with
[29:16.530 --> 29:29.450]  me? What? I don't understand. And his argument was, we don't get... what? I am so baffled.
[29:29.610 --> 29:35.350]  Did she get... well, you weren't there. Did Andrea give you any... like did the judge
[29:35.350 --> 29:41.110]  elaborate at all? It's like, what? No, there was like just this kind of argument that
[29:43.390 --> 29:50.370]  McLeanland was insinuating or arguing that Rosie was injecting his own personal opinion
[29:50.370 --> 29:56.970]  when he says, would you agree? As if he's saying that I agree. Like, well, I agree with
[29:56.970 --> 30:02.790]  this. So like the assumption is since he's saying, would you agree? That means that
[30:02.790 --> 30:08.470]  you're agreeing with me because I think that that in fact is true. But like you said, Bob,
[30:08.470 --> 30:14.770]  that is the exact same thing as if I were to say, well, it was a really sunny day that day,
[30:14.770 --> 30:19.810]  correct? Correct. Wouldn't you agree? It was a sunny day that day. That's right.
[30:20.930 --> 30:27.590]  Sorry, guys. This is baffling. It's crazy. It's crazy. See, this is what lawyers get all,
[30:27.590 --> 30:32.570]  you know, fired up about. That's why Andrea's coming up to Bob and saying it. By the way,
[30:32.590 --> 30:36.410]  the notes Bob is reading, and I know you said that it's Andrea Burkhart. She also has
[30:36.410 --> 30:42.690]  YouTube and one of the other lawyers covering this. You know, you got to get your info for
[30:42.690 --> 30:47.190]  multiple sources at this type of thing. We got lawyer Lee out there. We got Andrea Burkhart,
[30:47.290 --> 30:53.690]  and we got my man about town, Bobby Mata. Hi there. Okay, so...
[30:53.690 --> 30:57.250]  As far as lawyers. ...that this was unique, that one girl was naked.
[30:57.670 --> 31:04.850]  So this is that difficult path that the defense has to try to weave through this mind field
[31:04.850 --> 31:12.270]  of not being able to mention the word ritualistic. Wouldn't you agree that might
[31:12.270 --> 31:19.310]  be hard for them? Ma'am, objection. We don't need your... So, but you know what I'm saying
[31:19.310 --> 31:26.690]  in terms of them trying to get these question asks about, asked about what the crime scene
[31:26.690 --> 31:33.330]  looked like. You know, and obviously all these cops have been prepped by McCleland
[31:33.330 --> 31:40.910]  and the state at this point. Like, look, if he goes anywhere near, like any kind of ritual talk,
[31:41.110 --> 31:46.110]  any kind of Norse pagan talk, you know, you don't say a word and let me handle it.
[31:46.110 --> 31:51.710]  I'll object because he can't say shit. Why is the judge allowing that? And why is the
[31:51.710 --> 31:57.130]  defense... I think at this point the defense should object. Wait, what? You're saying that
[31:57.130 --> 32:02.210]  McCleland chimes in when it's someone else's... No, no. This conversation he has with these
[32:02.210 --> 32:05.910]  top witnesses when they're testifying about what the crime scene looked like.
[32:05.910 --> 32:12.450]  Oh, okay. I'm sorry, guys, because yesterday Bob told us how it was Littrell's
[32:13.350 --> 32:19.210]  direct examination. He called the witness and during the defense's cross-examination,
[32:19.450 --> 32:24.110]  McCleland stood up and objected. So my mind went there again.
[32:25.570 --> 32:31.250]  So he asked the question that this crime scene was unique. That's the word he landed on.
[32:31.250 --> 32:37.030]  You know, that there was one girl that was naked. There was one girl dressed. Sticks
[32:37.030 --> 32:43.750]  appeared to be placed. And then he assumed that it was an attempt at concealment. That was
[32:43.750 --> 32:51.590]  his answer. So he stuck with this ridiculous concept that these four or five sticks that were
[32:51.590 --> 32:59.230]  clearly placed intentionally in these designs were for concealment. It's such a disingenuous
[32:59.230 --> 33:05.310]  answer. I have no idea if it had anything to do with the ritual or not. But when you look at
[33:05.310 --> 33:12.410]  it and you're being just intellectually honest, you can't say that those were being used to try
[33:12.410 --> 33:17.650]  to conceal the curls. It's just, you know, and I've seen people like, well, he was running
[33:17.650 --> 33:23.910]  out of time. Then why wouldn't he? Like, it doesn't make any sense why he put three or four
[33:23.910 --> 33:28.010]  sticks on one and then three or four sticks on the other. I've got to chime in about this
[33:28.010 --> 33:32.410]  running out of time thing. I've been tweeting about it. If he was trying to conceal, why wouldn't
[33:32.410 --> 33:39.370]  he just try to like, you know, see if he could get the girls in the river, like deep enough
[33:39.370 --> 33:47.730]  into the middle, or maybe they float downstream or they sing. I mean, it's just... Get them away from him.
[33:48.330 --> 33:53.710]  Right. I mean, the fact of the matter is he left them in the wide open. I mean, obviously
[33:53.710 --> 33:57.850]  they're, you know, they're in a wooded area, but I mean, they're not hidden.
[33:58.590 --> 34:04.270]  Right. And like you're saying, if you were to be put them in the water based on the flow,
[34:04.370 --> 34:09.470]  at least from what we saw, we showed it, I think two lives ago, the water was flowing
[34:09.470 --> 34:16.050]  very strong that day. Thank you, Dizzy. And whoever actually talked to Dizzy about that,
[34:16.090 --> 34:20.270]  I can't remember if she told me, but in any event, that would have given the killer or
[34:20.790 --> 34:25.730]  killer's time to get out of that area nonchalantly because the bodies would be
[34:26.770 --> 34:30.810]  somewhere else by the time they were found and they wouldn't be looking
[34:30.810 --> 34:37.750]  right directly there. And then to me, the other thing about this interrupted and rushing for
[34:37.750 --> 34:43.810]  time. So you've got, as far as I see it, you've got two possibilities, right? They go down
[34:43.810 --> 34:53.410]  the hill and now actually, I was... I had Sleuthy reread me notes from the openings
[34:53.410 --> 34:58.350]  because your notes are there. Now I don't have them to see, because you did say to me that
[34:58.350 --> 35:05.130]  McClellan said before they crossed the river, that that's when he was interrupted. So she read
[35:05.130 --> 35:12.690]  me back notes that she had, and it says that the state said he was interrupted, then they
[35:12.690 --> 35:19.670]  crossed the creek. Then they crossed the creek. So you get two possibilities. One, they
[35:19.670 --> 35:25.710]  crossed the creek naked and were told to hold their clothes or the killer held their clothes.
[35:26.670 --> 35:32.790]  We know all the clothes make it across. So there's no question there. Option two, they
[35:32.790 --> 35:37.950]  went overdressed. They get over. Now you've been interrupted and scared. You're having them
[35:37.950 --> 35:45.670]  get undressed. Either way, you're putting... Abby needs to walk barefoot once she's over
[35:45.670 --> 35:52.710]  because we saw that. And even their state, the witness said her shoes were off at some point.
[35:53.050 --> 36:00.950]  She had to be dressed into Libby's pants. She had to be redressed. And then they had to be...
[36:00.950 --> 36:05.270]  all the things that took place there, the murder, the blood, all the things, whatever
[36:05.270 --> 36:10.650]  happened there, then placed in the manner that they were placed. And then whatever it is,
[36:10.650 --> 36:15.950]  if it's sticks placed on them or whether or not they're arranged, they are still
[36:15.950 --> 36:22.370]  placed on them. So much time to do all of that. That's not someone who's interrupted.
[36:22.490 --> 36:29.550]  And if you're interrupted from committing an SA, why is the person redressed already?
[36:30.450 --> 36:36.810]  It makes zero sense to me how the argument that someone got interrupted and then spent all
[36:36.810 --> 36:46.530]  that time on the other side of the creek, it just doesn't make any sense. And again,
[36:47.310 --> 36:54.170]  while the dad's out there searching, calling the kids' names, he gets there at 311 is when
[36:54.170 --> 36:59.930]  he's pulling up, 311. He gets out like 315. Those are either two phone calls or two texts.
[37:00.010 --> 37:03.710]  I don't have my notes in front of me right this second, but I do remember those times.
[37:03.710 --> 37:09.010]  And then the family's showing up and then they're calling AT&T and they're walking around and
[37:09.010 --> 37:20.430]  they're driving around and they're looking. And they're coming up around the cemetery area.
[37:21.770 --> 37:27.770]  And don't forget, I forget what time it was exactly. I think Sleuthie reminded me today,
[37:27.770 --> 37:37.710]  I think she said it was 157 that Sarah says she saw the man walking on 300 North.
[37:37.790 --> 37:42.940]  So now he's already up there. It's, I don't know, interrupted. And then all that stuff
[37:44.050 --> 37:49.810]  happens. It just doesn't make sense. I agree with everything you said. I almost
[37:49.810 --> 38:02.550]  heard all of it too. Good. I'm kidding, babe. All right. Okay, so let's see, we were going
[38:02.550 --> 38:10.610]  through. So the integrity of the crime scene, the investigation, again, are distinct. They
[38:10.610 --> 38:16.230]  don't want the scene info flowing out of the scene itself. The other side is the physical
[38:16.230 --> 38:22.650]  integrity of the evidence itself. The objects, obviously, he thought that Rosie interrupted him
[38:22.650 --> 38:28.710]  during his answer. Is he aware of the info regarding the breach of the integrity of the
[38:28.710 --> 38:34.090]  crime scene? Objection relevance overruled. The witness answers, no knowledge of photos
[38:34.090 --> 38:41.370]  taken at the scene and leaked. So if you remember, Ali, I had told you that Rosie had
[38:41.370 --> 38:48.950]  asked the very first cop witness that question about these crime scene photos that were out
[38:48.950 --> 38:56.890]  there. Theoretically, what we're talking about is it could have been the civilian
[38:56.890 --> 39:02.470]  searchers who originally find the girls. I mean, if they're taking pictures,
[39:02.470 --> 39:06.090]  which I can't imagine they did, but people do all kinds of shit.
[39:06.090 --> 39:11.750]  Pat Brown, to me, I think you weren't there that day. OK, so that was Saturday.
[39:12.190 --> 39:16.950]  I do remember him being very choked up. I actually spoke to him in the hall.
[39:17.910 --> 39:24.510]  He kept saying that he stood by the girls until the police came with his back towards them.
[39:25.310 --> 39:28.510]  Look, I don't know these players. I don't know the neighborhood. I don't know.
[39:28.770 --> 39:29.850]  He seemed like a good citizen.
[39:30.290 --> 39:34.990]  He did to me. But people that live local may have a completely different opinion.
[39:34.990 --> 39:40.690]  And when I when I spoke to him, he seemed honestly kind of shook it up.
[39:42.070 --> 39:47.990]  I just didn't get the sense that he'd he'd be the type that would be like snapping secret
[39:47.990 --> 39:53.050]  pictures of the girls and then not, you know what, like secretly sharing them with
[39:53.050 --> 39:59.210]  the townspeople. I don't know. Right. OK, so then we get to.
[40:05.740 --> 40:14.760]  So, so there's another objection because Rosie, who it is his habit, probably for 25 years of
[40:14.760 --> 40:21.560]  trying cases, starts his sentence with, would you agree? And so he objects as a
[40:21.560 --> 40:25.920]  statement of the council's opinion. It all sustains it again.
[40:26.800 --> 40:30.140]  Um. All right, so then we get to.
[40:32.500 --> 40:40.450]  Uh, let's see. OK, so we were we were at the portion where he was talking about
[40:40.450 --> 40:45.590]  the uniqueness of the scene, right? I didn't see any significance of the positioning of
[40:45.590 --> 40:52.170]  the sticks. Oh, I says. Very little parts of the bodies were concealed.
[40:52.630 --> 40:57.250]  He can concede that at least they were not very covered.
[40:58.630 --> 41:03.250]  They didn't discover if the sticks were cut. Ah, good question.
[41:03.930 --> 41:07.710]  We had heard if the sticks had been cut, we know that they don't collect them
[41:07.710 --> 41:13.590]  until March 3rd, because remember, we had somebody asking last night about whether or not
[41:14.050 --> 41:17.930]  there was any talk of the cut sticks that looked like they had been sought.
[41:20.310 --> 41:24.470]  So he didn't know he was told to go back and collect sticks. He doesn't know
[41:24.470 --> 41:30.050]  if it happened more than once in terms of going to collect the sticks because this
[41:30.050 --> 41:37.190]  concept that they go back weeks later after the crime scene is no longer secured and is
[41:37.190 --> 41:42.750]  everyone has access to it. And you've got everybody and their mother that's trying to
[41:42.750 --> 41:48.570]  solve this case. That's an armchair detective or, you know, some kind of web sleuth who's
[41:48.570 --> 41:54.310]  out there and they're wandering around on private property looking for clues. I mean,
[41:54.310 --> 42:00.710]  to sit there and think that those sticks were left there, where Paige put them,
[42:01.050 --> 42:07.130]  and then no one gathered. I mean, even Kurt, our RPI, and my friend was like,
[42:07.130 --> 42:11.550]  hey, man, you want to go, you want to go out to Logan's property and find those sticks?
[42:12.670 --> 42:17.330]  I want to ask you, did you happen to see my text about asking Barbara McDonald
[42:17.330 --> 42:26.090]  to look closely at the crime scene picture to see if the whatever sticks or twigs were near
[42:26.890 --> 42:31.010]  Abby's head, if they were attached to the ground, if it was stuff that was attached to
[42:31.010 --> 42:34.710]  the ground, if it was stuff that was loose, did you see that that text by before the end
[42:34.710 --> 42:39.670]  of the day? I didn't. So was that something that I missed today? Was there some kind of
[42:39.670 --> 42:44.750]  like word that there actually were some sticks by her head? No, I just know that people
[42:44.750 --> 42:50.230]  have been saying that. And what I was thinking was, you know, like they were laying all over
[42:50.230 --> 42:56.130]  sticks, you know, like so I was thinking once they rolled her over, if what if you could
[42:56.130 --> 43:00.550]  have if there was a picture with a better image of what was near her head and if it was
[43:00.550 --> 43:05.050]  something just loose, they could have been placed whether it was or wasn't, you know,
[43:05.350 --> 43:10.690]  or was it like she was laying on something? I mean, are you asking if like when she
[43:10.690 --> 43:15.130]  reviewed some of the crime scene photos out of court? Yeah, like when they get the opportunity
[43:15.130 --> 43:19.170]  to review the... I'll ask her. Maybe if they're I don't know if they'll be anymore
[43:19.170 --> 43:23.070]  or if she's going to remember. Oh, yeah. And I mean, she's going to have a better view
[43:23.070 --> 43:28.270]  like, but it's done. Like they're right. I was I was hoping today. Yeah.
[43:29.490 --> 43:33.270]  Yeah, no, we didn't get any more crime scene photos of the victims. So it would
[43:33.270 --> 43:37.570]  have been had to been yesterday. Darn it. Okay. Okay. So
[43:38.450 --> 43:48.290]  he then asked about items on Abby. Okay. And he says one had to be and I'm assuming
[43:48.290 --> 43:55.550]  one had the name German on it. He assumed it belonged to Libby or the family sizing was
[43:55.550 --> 44:00.410]  more consistent with Libby too large for Abby with the jeans and the sweatshirt.
[44:00.410 --> 44:07.390]  So this is obviously discussing the fact that Abby was clothed in Libby's clothes.
[44:07.570 --> 44:09.750]  So that was a logical assumption.
[44:10.030 --> 44:13.990]  But the sweatshirts they were both wearing were Kelsey's, right?
[44:15.310 --> 44:22.330]  Well, the the swimming the swimming set shirt was definitely Kelsey's, but
[44:22.930 --> 44:27.970]  she wasn't wearing it. Libby was or Abby was so like that. That's what we're saying.
[44:27.970 --> 44:35.170]  We know that Kelsey gave Libby the sweatshirt in the car because she like wasn't properly
[44:35.170 --> 44:42.910]  dressed. I think she gave them both sweatshirts. No, she gave. Oh, right. Sorry. Sorry. Yes.
[44:44.250 --> 44:51.870]  So that that resolves that that that Abby is wearing Libby's clothing. For sure. So it
[44:51.870 --> 44:57.410]  also said there the logical assumption that Libby was disrobed and Abby dressed
[44:57.410 --> 45:02.190]  with those clothes. No info about when or where those events occurred.
[45:03.870 --> 45:10.090]  So you have to imagine Andrea or Andrea didn't write down the questions, but you can envision
[45:10.090 --> 45:14.570]  what they are by the answers, because we have the answers. I do the same thing. Like I'm not
[45:14.570 --> 45:20.210]  sitting here trying to write down. When I hear it, I remember it so that when I'm referencing
[45:20.210 --> 45:25.990]  what the answer was, I'll always remember what the question was. So one stick, one large
[45:25.990 --> 45:32.170]  stick appeared to have been moved from an indentation to an indentation.
[45:32.190 --> 45:40.650]  Near the body. Okay, so no analysis of the type of tree that large limb came from.
[45:42.510 --> 45:49.250]  Shoe impressions found. Okay, so Andrea had a note that she started this helps
[45:49.250 --> 45:55.090]  defense with search likely to find bodies. So shoe impressions found near ground zero.
[45:56.230 --> 46:03.290]  Banks near Deer Creek. Average or very large search in general area, no effort to find the
[46:03.290 --> 46:08.410]  source of the shoe print. One had similarities to one of the shoes recovered. We heard a
[46:08.410 --> 46:16.630]  little bit about this. This was a partial partial print. And the shoes had different
[46:16.630 --> 46:24.570]  characteristics on the soles and they took photos, but they didn't take an imprint.
[46:25.090 --> 46:36.670]  No good substance, no good substances or fingerprints on the sticks and the clothes.
[46:36.690 --> 46:40.610]  They're not good sources for prints. That's why they didn't take any prints off the sticks
[46:40.610 --> 46:51.190]  or the clothes. Nothing at the high bridge of value. The F tree with the blood on it.
[46:51.410 --> 46:55.810]  The area of the red stain on the tree vertical line of marking appears to be pretty
[46:55.810 --> 47:03.730]  straight. I never used a compass or a ruler to determine an angle. It appears to be a large
[47:03.730 --> 47:14.970]  area of transfer contact of blood. So they've now all adopted their blood spatter expert
[47:15.430 --> 47:20.930]  or their blood stain experts opinion who was hired in the spring because that's his theory
[47:20.930 --> 47:28.910]  that it was a large area of blood transfer, not spatter itself. That's where his theory,
[47:29.110 --> 47:34.670]  I'm talking about the state's expert who is yet to have testified to this point,
[47:34.670 --> 47:43.450]  but will be testifying. His theory is that once Libby's throat had been damaged,
[47:44.730 --> 47:49.600]  that she went to go cover it and that's how the hands got filled. And that she
[47:50.320 --> 47:55.740]  went to that tree which is known as the F tree and then like probably tried to stabilize herself
[47:55.740 --> 48:02.000]  and her hand slid down and then she fell into a sitting position and then that's where you
[48:02.000 --> 48:07.480]  get maybe like slumped over like this and that's where you get the droplets on the thigh.
[48:07.740 --> 48:14.920]  That was his theory that we heard back in July and August. He didn't have anyone examine
[48:14.920 --> 48:24.400]  the mark on the tree. It was photographed, but thinks it wasn't preserved. So he's aware
[48:24.400 --> 48:29.400]  blood spatter expert was contacted just this year. That's what I was just talking about.
[48:29.440 --> 48:36.380]  They were available back in 2017, yet they didn't hire one. For lab export standards
[48:36.380 --> 48:43.760]  or they don't qualify. So possible blood spatter expert could have helped determine
[48:43.760 --> 48:51.620]  the timeline. Isn't that correct? Wouldn't you agree that a possible blood spatter expert
[48:51.620 --> 48:56.240]  could have helped determine the timeline? Hey, I let that wouldn't you agree, Snick?
[48:57.140 --> 49:04.400]  Oh, showing how it's the very same question. Right. Yeah, how blood might move
[49:04.400 --> 49:10.440]  if a person is clothed. Again, scavengers, no disturbances to the bodies, no outside
[49:10.440 --> 49:16.980]  factors. They can be useful in giving a range of times. So this is along the same lines
[49:16.980 --> 49:26.640]  of questioning that Rosie conducted when he was crossing the first CSI guy, getting into
[49:26.640 --> 49:32.260]  the scavenger animals. And if the girls had been out there for 11, 12 hours overnight,
[49:32.980 --> 49:38.200]  isn't it likely that a scavenger animal may have come over and started to nibble on them
[49:38.200 --> 49:46.140]  if they were there for that period of time? He says those can be useful in giving a range
[49:46.140 --> 49:53.140]  of times for time of death. Said he couldn't determine the time of death. It's a very
[49:53.140 --> 49:59.260]  imprecise science. Objection to the word agree. Again, attorney's opinion is irrelevant,
[49:59.260 --> 50:09.600]  sustained. He asked there, he asked do you agree? She still sustained it. And so he
[50:09.600 --> 50:14.440]  spoke with the dive team members, but not sure if the measurements, if they ever measured
[50:15.020 --> 50:20.240]  the depth of the river or the creek. It's not a flat bottom. It's two to two and a half
[50:20.240 --> 50:25.340]  feet to three feet deep in some areas. The North shoreline appeared to be deeper.
[50:29.930 --> 50:36.570]  Okay, no determination that the people moved on the shoreline on the North side. Is there
[50:36.570 --> 50:46.770]  anything unusual? Is there anything unusual about finding an unspent cartridge in a wooded lot
[50:46.770 --> 50:53.090]  in Indiana? So he's implying that a lot of gun owners, like is that, is it crazy to think
[50:53.090 --> 50:58.230]  you'd find an unspent casing just like laying around me? People drop bullets, I'm sure.
[50:58.750 --> 51:03.570]  Pretty consistent. Their witness yesterday, if it was yesterday, I'm getting all my days
[51:03.570 --> 51:10.970]  confused, said this was prime hunting area. Right. And so his answer to that question,
[51:11.050 --> 51:16.050]  is there anything unusual to finding an unspent cartridge in a wood lot in Indiana?
[51:16.230 --> 51:21.130]  And he says, well, it's more likely you'd find shotgun or hunting round, not a handgun
[51:21.790 --> 51:26.190]  Oh, I guess that makes sense with what I just said, too. Right, but I don't necessarily know
[51:26.190 --> 51:31.370]  that's true. I think people fire their handguns all the time, target practice on the land,
[51:31.610 --> 51:43.580]  you know, shoot trees, all kinds of stuff. Like he said, he said, he said, it's not
[51:43.580 --> 51:47.480]  really unusual to find a round anywhere in the state of Indiana. It would be unusual for
[51:47.480 --> 51:55.760]  to shoot guns on others' property, though. He said, people in county have guns,
[51:56.300 --> 51:59.580]  and they shoot them, but they wouldn't be surprised if they did it in the woods.
[52:00.960 --> 52:05.300]  He owns a Sig Sauer himself, the witness, but it's not a 40 caliber.
[52:07.260 --> 52:13.360]  Different platforms in his two guns. He didn't know about the manufacturer
[52:13.360 --> 52:15.600]  systems inside the gun only generally.
[52:21.700 --> 52:28.080]  The left side of the area debris where items were collected, one can conclude that items
[52:28.080 --> 52:34.580]  would have come from upstream, don't know who or how they were discarded,
[52:35.700 --> 52:42.460]  knows 300 North relative to the crime scene. He was never asked to search any area
[52:42.460 --> 52:50.820]  north of the north of the rock. North of the rock? Yeah, there was. Oh,
[52:50.820 --> 52:56.020]  right. The rocks in the water. Got it. I'm not aware of any trail system search that
[52:56.020 --> 53:02.040]  took place search anywhere near the Hoosier Heartland. No. So I realized why they were
[53:02.040 --> 53:05.560]  asking people. I don't know if it was yesterday or the day before.
[53:06.380 --> 53:12.020]  Did you check behind the Hoosier building? Did anyone tell you that they might have
[53:12.020 --> 53:18.080]  believed that the killer went behind the building? Because if the killer was coming
[53:18.080 --> 53:24.340]  from the cemetery area and going to the CPS building, they would have to have passed the
[53:24.340 --> 53:32.640]  camera on the Hoosier Harvest Store building. Yeah. The only way that Sarah
[53:32.640 --> 53:41.400]  Coburger sees the killer, but Carbaha. Wow. Wow. Now I got Coburger. Carbaha sees the
[53:42.780 --> 53:49.020]  killer and the killer has to go to the CPS building is if they walk right past that camera.
[53:50.660 --> 53:57.280]  Yeah, I know. And so today, actually speaking of that, we saw a picture of
[53:57.940 --> 54:04.380]  Hoosier Harvest and Steve Mullins was called back to the stand who you saw on Saturday. He
[54:04.380 --> 54:09.960]  was on there for a different reason today. And he described where the camera is. So there's
[54:09.960 --> 54:16.640]  a really long building because somebody told us on the silo. That's not correct. It's not on
[54:16.640 --> 54:23.000]  the silo. There's a camera on a really long kind of thin building and there's a walkway
[54:23.000 --> 54:30.160]  and there's a camera there and it catches kind of just like a section of 300. So because it's
[54:30.160 --> 54:33.820]  really used for the property itself, but it just happens to catch the road.
[54:35.860 --> 54:42.440]  Okay. And the Hoover Harvest Store is not an actual store. There's it's like a
[54:42.440 --> 54:45.500]  private. I felt like we were on private property. Well, that's a different spot.
[54:45.880 --> 54:50.600]  So that was what was confusing me about the maps that I talked about on a live you weren't
[54:50.600 --> 54:58.720]  here on that. I think it was Sleuthy and I, because I was like, I'm telling you that I was on
[54:58.720 --> 55:06.760]  500 drive or road, whatever it is. There's no way that that thing led to 300. So we were
[55:06.760 --> 55:10.660]  saying maybe it moved. And I think Dizzy asked the same like, could it have moved? So Sleuthy
[55:10.660 --> 55:17.420]  did a little digging and she found a post in 2019 for people coming that they had job
[55:17.420 --> 55:25.680]  openings for the Hoover Harvest Store Harvest Store and to come to 300 North 300 road to
[55:25.680 --> 55:32.180]  that address right there. So it's on the other side of the mayor's farm closer towards the
[55:32.180 --> 55:36.480]  freedom bridge. So we were on the wrong property. We were on there. We were at the
[55:36.480 --> 55:42.020]  actual place where the business is itself. That might be an office over there. It might
[55:42.020 --> 55:48.020]  be a, it might have been an old, an old spot that they had. I don't know if so,
[55:48.280 --> 55:55.340]  but it was the place that in 2019 they were holding, you know, having interested employees
[55:55.340 --> 56:03.920]  come to, but the address of the actual place is on the 500 where we were. And, you know,
[56:03.920 --> 56:08.740]  I guess they sell farm type stuff. So it's not like some place where people go and they're
[56:08.740 --> 56:16.840]  shopping. Not that kind of store. Are you muted? You're not muted, but your sound is out.
[56:18.060 --> 56:26.440]  I accidentally touched my mic. Okay. So yeah. And like we went, we, you know, like we just
[56:26.440 --> 56:31.200]  didn't see it, you know, and then I'm going to let the nook in because he's begging,
[56:31.260 --> 56:35.660]  but I took him out because he started barking. So he's getting a second chance right now.
[56:35.900 --> 56:37.780]  Did you take him for a walk today?
[56:37.780 --> 56:41.620]  I didn't. I told him, although he doesn't know, I told him that I'm going to take him when we're
[56:41.620 --> 56:49.260]  done. Just me and him. He misses daddy. He does. When I got here, he stood by the, like the
[56:49.260 --> 56:54.040]  door, the garage door, hoping that you were going to come in next. You can let the nook in.
[56:54.060 --> 57:02.380]  I miss my kids, my dog. Yeah, they miss you. So he's asked you, so Olahi says,
[57:02.380 --> 57:09.060]  I don't even know where the CPS building is. And then he shows them states exhibit five.
[57:09.240 --> 57:17.240]  I did search areas north of road 300 north in the, in the weeks afterward in Monticello.
[57:17.240 --> 57:24.320]  Well, not in an area immediately north of the road in this photo.
[57:25.400 --> 57:31.760]  Said there's a farmhouse just north of the high bridge trail that runs by there.
[57:31.760 --> 57:40.700]  Doesn't know about the trail connector. He didn't search it. So 148, which is a
[57:40.700 --> 57:47.900]  image of the magic bullet. That's what Andrea called it. Objection, irrelevant.
[57:50.540 --> 57:54.540]  Oh, that's what, that's what Rosie called it was the magic bullet.
[57:56.160 --> 58:01.740]  So obviously McLeanland took exception to that. He's like irrelevant and he's calling it the
[58:01.740 --> 58:09.240]  magic bullet. Judge, your characterization is improper, sir. Six, seven photos of the bullet,
[58:09.400 --> 58:14.460]  the scene. There's no more, no photos of the unspent. Wait, the judge said the words,
[58:14.720 --> 58:21.100]  your characterization is improper, sir, as opposed to just grant, you know, sustaining
[58:21.100 --> 58:28.540]  the objection. Well, Andrea wrote it down. So yes, clearly. Right. Wow. So no photos of
[58:28.540 --> 58:34.140]  unspent round in the ground after it was removed. Objection asked and answered, sustained.
[58:34.960 --> 58:41.280]  No photos of the ground where the unspent casing was removed. I believe that parts of
[58:42.180 --> 58:45.900]  the scene showed it. Not aware of a detailed area where bullet was found.
[58:48.500 --> 58:55.800]  Nope. Let me see. This looks like no plot of bullet. Oh, no photo of the bullet
[58:55.800 --> 58:59.940]  in its true state after the round was removed. Would you agree that it would be helpful?
[59:01.280 --> 59:06.720]  Objection. Improper question. Sustained for would you agree? That must have been so annoying.
[59:07.540 --> 59:11.420]  Don't particularly wish that he had taken more photos of the round. So he asked him, don't
[59:11.420 --> 59:16.320]  you like, don't you think it would have been a good idea? So he says, not really. I'm good.
[59:16.680 --> 59:22.740]  I'm good. Like why cops are doing this? I don't, I don't know. I don't know. They can't
[59:24.500 --> 59:30.020]  Yeah, no. Like truth and transparency, you obviously weren't here last night. My
[59:30.020 --> 59:35.800]  notes were on fire, sis. All right. So don't particularly wish that he had taken more
[59:35.800 --> 59:40.860]  photos of the rounds. Having individual, the photo was potentially unprofessional.
[59:42.100 --> 59:47.520]  Place it in a separate area is better. Somebody's holding the sock. Is that
[59:47.520 --> 59:55.580]  professional? He says, not my preferred method. Inspector Libby's wrist area for defensive wounds,
[59:55.780 --> 01:00:03.880]  not on her body. One ammo collected at ground zero. The crime scene was packaged.
[01:00:04.100 --> 01:00:09.800]  Documentation and preservation of items is most important. Okay. So then we've got,
[01:00:10.520 --> 01:00:17.160]  and then he talks about Stacey, Stacey Bosanowski. She's the DNA analyst. Her
[01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:22.340]  initials are SB. If not fully sealed items would be rejected by the lab.
[01:00:25.930 --> 01:00:29.290]  They're still coming out. Like they went at Brad with the would you agree thing. And you
[01:00:29.290 --> 01:00:35.670]  guys have to understand it's like when you've been doing this for so long, trying cases,
[01:00:35.890 --> 01:00:39.810]  you just, you, there's just terms of phrase that you use all the time without even
[01:00:39.810 --> 01:00:43.830]  thinking of it. Right. And as we've sort of said, Andy has a softer style.
[01:00:44.090 --> 01:00:51.190]  So that's a softer approach than, you know, it was this way. Correct. It's just a softer
[01:00:51.190 --> 01:00:57.390]  approach. Don't you think? Yeah. Yeah. So that's his, like you said, that's his style. Like.
[01:00:58.550 --> 01:01:06.870]  Yeah. What's his face? What's his face in read used? Would you agree all the time?
[01:01:06.870 --> 01:01:11.370]  Or he would say, you would agree. He would say, he was even more, he was like, you would agree.
[01:01:12.310 --> 01:01:19.050]  And then he'd, he'd ask the question. It's commonplace. It's the exact same as saying
[01:01:19.050 --> 01:01:25.090]  correct at the end of the sentence. So is it common question to change gloves during
[01:01:25.090 --> 01:01:32.890]  evidence collection of different items? So this. So I think this is a jury question. I think the,
[01:01:32.890 --> 01:01:38.830]  uh, yeah, that's it. So these are jury questions, which are very, very good.
[01:01:39.870 --> 01:01:43.230]  So the jury asked, like all of their questions are so
[01:01:44.850 --> 01:01:53.550]  on point. Like, you know, like it has to give you like for both sides, you have to feel very,
[01:01:53.570 --> 01:01:59.070]  very comforted by the fact that this jury is asking such good, good questions. You know,
[01:01:59.070 --> 01:02:05.790]  paying attention, you know, they're smart. So they asked, is it common to change gloves
[01:02:05.790 --> 01:02:11.850]  during evidence collection of different items? Very good question. And the answer to that was
[01:02:11.850 --> 01:02:20.050]  yes, absolutely. Was the bullet collected in an envelope or a pill box? The answer was never
[01:02:20.050 --> 01:02:29.050]  removed from the initial packaging. So that doesn't really answer it, but we were told a
[01:02:29.050 --> 01:02:35.470]  what identifies where the item was resealed. Because yes, it's resealed and initialed by a lab
[01:02:35.470 --> 01:02:42.230]  analyst. Items are handled similarly and long track handling of items. And there's a log
[01:02:42.230 --> 01:02:47.650]  track of it, handling of the items. Haven't seen a chain of custody log, not unusual for
[01:02:47.650 --> 01:02:53.070]  me not to see it. So then we got the recess. I just want to comment for people so they
[01:02:53.070 --> 01:02:59.410]  know that that is not the real Michael Osbrooke, nor is what he's saying correct.
[01:03:00.710 --> 01:03:04.650]  But thank you for the super sticker. Appreciate it.
[01:03:07.250 --> 01:03:12.350]  So the next guy was Brian Bonner, another Indiana State Police.
[01:03:15.970 --> 01:03:20.910]  And Andrew was very excited that one of the witnesses finally spelled their last name.
[01:03:22.730 --> 01:03:26.630]  She did it with an exclamation point. They're not good about it. And I'll tell you,
[01:03:26.870 --> 01:03:32.670]  McLeanland was missed huge amounts. And we talked about this last night of where he
[01:03:32.670 --> 01:03:38.810]  would fail to say what evidence EV number it was, what exhibit number it was. It was brutal.
[01:03:39.470 --> 01:03:45.910]  He was much better at it today. So Brian Bonner, ISP... Wait, so that was it for the
[01:03:45.910 --> 01:03:49.590]  you got all the jury questions? Yeah, that was it. Those are those are the couple,
[01:03:49.590 --> 01:03:56.170]  couple few. So Brian Bonner, he's the digital forensics pro program guy.
[01:03:57.750 --> 01:04:05.910]  So one exhibit 185 was his CV, his resume. It looked like...
[01:04:08.670 --> 01:04:13.490]  I don't think she I don't think she thought that they made it. All right, so
[01:04:14.070 --> 01:04:17.010]  I'm going to switch to my notes, which are going to be much harder to read.
[01:04:17.650 --> 01:04:32.360]  Okay. All right, so. Okay, he, he's a cell phone forensics guy, he, he will examine computers,
[01:04:33.160 --> 01:04:41.420]  drone footage, phones, hard drives, flash drives, and he will dabble in network intrusion.
[01:04:42.160 --> 01:04:49.660]  And so he's basically their digital device guy. He uses programs such as cellulite,
[01:04:49.660 --> 01:05:00.040]  axiom, he's done hundreds, if not thousands of examinations. And his examination in this
[01:05:00.040 --> 01:05:05.940]  particular situation was the phone, the device itself. So his process is, when he has
[01:05:06.460 --> 01:05:12.220]  an object or device that he's going to examine, first he does an exterior examination,
[01:05:12.740 --> 01:05:18.580]  he'll photograph it, he'll note the apps on the phone, he'll choose an extraction software,
[01:05:18.580 --> 01:05:24.560]  which is based on the phone type. He says that there's some, you know, cellulite works better
[01:05:25.660 --> 01:05:31.620]  with some phones other than others, other than other types of phones, such as like
[01:05:31.620 --> 01:05:36.900]  Apple and droids. It may, it may extract things better from certain things from Apple
[01:05:36.900 --> 01:05:43.380]  better than it does from droid and vice versa. Or there's software that just works better with
[01:05:48.020 --> 01:05:59.160]  other phones or devices or computers. So then he's re-asked about the external examination.
[01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:05.980]  So how do you know, this is the questioning from McClellan, how do you know what software
[01:06:05.980 --> 01:06:13.360]  to use with a device? And he kind of goes through a long, drawn out
[01:06:14.200 --> 01:06:17.600]  explanation that really wasn't an answer. He says it depends on the device.
[01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:24.520]  Different software, you know, sometimes works better with different devices. It's basically
[01:06:24.520 --> 01:06:28.800]  like, that's my, that's what my answer would be. Like a guy who doesn't know anything about
[01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:34.280]  it. He says the raw data, and then so this is the question, McClellan, he's trying to,
[01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:38.460]  he wanted to back up and he wanted to explain this kind of this process. He's like,
[01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:43.940]  all right, so when you pull raw data from a phone, it's just in the form of ones and
[01:06:43.940 --> 01:06:50.220]  zeros, right? It's raw data is then run through the software. And at that point,
[01:06:50.300 --> 01:06:56.100]  a report is created. And that once once it's run through the software, and it's usually in
[01:06:56.100 --> 01:07:07.500]  HTML format, and he says that it can retrieve texts, text messages, photos, calls, app usage,
[01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.140]  sometimes it'll it'll give you
[01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:25.520]  messaging from apps, not always. And he said, in 2017, out of the cybercrime unit in Indy,
[01:07:25.680 --> 01:07:30.580]  the investigators were told the phone was recovered. This is how he came to be into
[01:07:30.580 --> 01:07:37.720]  this case. And then this guy, Larry Moat, an ISP investigator, delivered the phone to him
[01:07:37.720 --> 01:07:47.780]  2 15 of 17, because we know that the still shot of bridge guy was going to be showing
[01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:51.840]  was out in the public within a couple of days of the girls being discovered.
[01:07:53.100 --> 01:07:55.880]  So he did a manual examination of the exterior of the phone.
[01:07:58.040 --> 01:08:02.540]  McClellan then put five things into five or six things into evidence. Actually, it was
[01:08:02.540 --> 01:08:09.440]  13. So like picture of vanilla envelope, you know, a bunch of kind of not important stuff,
[01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:18.350]  property record receipt, 188 and 199 were actual pictures of the phone front and back,
[01:08:20.120 --> 01:08:27.360]  190 through 119, the case with it on the backside of the phone with it off.
[01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:31.120]  He said that Libby's phone was an Apple iPhone 6s.
[01:08:33.200 --> 01:08:42.540]  Exhibit 192 was a SIM card. 193-194 was a pic of the screen lock and a pic of the
[01:08:42.540 --> 01:08:48.160]  unlock phone. So those two were those two pics. He said when he received the phone that it was
[01:08:48.160 --> 01:08:55.200]  dead. He said that he was provided with the code by the family. So he was able to open it
[01:08:55.200 --> 01:09:01.460]  once he recharged it. So then photos 195 were the settings. He went into the settings. He
[01:09:01.460 --> 01:09:06.560]  went to the name of the phone. It was called Liberty's iPhone. 196 was the settings, again,
[01:09:06.620 --> 01:09:13.780]  in the iCloud. Then he gave her iCloud address, which was liberty.german at icloud.com.
[01:09:14.260 --> 01:09:20.900]  And then 197 was a photograph of her Apple ID. And 198 was the screenshot of the setting
[01:09:20.900 --> 01:09:27.760]  for iMessages, which can be attached to either a phone or a computer so you can get your phone,
[01:09:27.980 --> 01:09:31.260]  so you can get your messages, iMessages on your phone or computer or tablet.
[01:09:33.860 --> 01:09:38.760]  And then he goes, Exhibit 206 was a picture of the general app settings,
[01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:44.220]  which he was interested in finding the time zone. The time zone was set to America,
[01:09:44.220 --> 01:09:52.580]  Indiana Eastern Standard Time. Found out that it was an AT&T phone and that it's AT&T that,
[01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:59.220]  in fact, that is where the time and date comes from AT&T proper. So if you're ever
[01:09:59.220 --> 01:10:07.460]  wondering where your time and your date comes from, it is always from your provider,
[01:10:07.480 --> 01:10:12.680]  your service provider. Okay, so after the physical examination, the data was extracted.
[01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:21.320]  He used Cellebrite. He uses Cellebrite daily. Cellebrite retrieves, it depends on the model,
[01:10:21.420 --> 01:10:26.200]  but it can get contacts, messages, voicemail, internet history, photos, text messages.
[01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:32.620]  And he used what they call the method one technique. And when he was asked what it was,
[01:10:32.700 --> 01:10:38.620]  he's like, I don't really know what it is. And then he says the answer, but at the time,
[01:10:38.620 --> 01:10:44.300]  in 2017, it was the only method available. And then so once the extraction was done,
[01:10:44.320 --> 01:10:48.460]  he said, did you look at the extraction? He says, yeah, it was but it was a report
[01:10:48.460 --> 01:10:53.790]  that was several hundred page long. So I can just like peek through it. And then
[01:10:55.180 --> 01:10:59.380]  I kind of handed the whole thing over to the investigators. I wanted to get the phone
[01:10:59.380 --> 01:11:05.090]  back to him as soon as possible. So he did not go through it. He did not go through it
[01:11:05.090 --> 01:11:12.570]  thoroughly, the entire report and the data because it was voluminous. And he really did
[01:11:12.570 --> 01:11:18.890]  want to get it back to the cops quickly. He said he looked at a bit of the data.
[01:11:19.390 --> 01:11:24.370]  That's a quote. He looked for what would be deemed important. Did he look at the camera
[01:11:24.370 --> 01:11:32.690]  roll? Yes. And he said the timeline showed a video was taken within the past couple of days.
[01:11:33.330 --> 01:11:37.610]  And he said, what was that? He said it was the last activity on the phone. And he says,
[01:11:37.610 --> 01:11:42.190]  oh, a video was taken. So I knew as soon as this guy came on, I leaned next to...
[01:11:42.190 --> 01:11:45.830]  there was actually a reporter next to me. I was like, oh, we're getting to see the video.
[01:11:46.090 --> 01:11:49.230]  Who said the words? It was the last activity on the phone, the expert?
[01:11:49.670 --> 01:11:56.850]  The witness, yeah. So it was the phone that the video was taken on. Like I kept telling
[01:11:56.850 --> 01:12:01.230]  everybody, as soon as he said what he was, I knew we were getting to see the phone,
[01:12:01.230 --> 01:12:08.110]  like the video, the 43 second video. And so it says he finds a video
[01:12:11.110 --> 01:12:17.490]  and the timestamp on it is 2.13 p.m. on 2.13 of 17. Kind of ironic.
[01:12:18.630 --> 01:12:26.110]  Last activity on the phone is on the date, 2.13 at 2.13. Once you viewed
[01:12:26.650 --> 01:12:32.750]  the video, you sent it out, you sent it with Moat and Chapman for AV enhancements.
[01:12:33.830 --> 01:12:39.670]  And then he took screenshots. So evidence, EV 201 through 205, they were admitted.
[01:12:40.810 --> 01:12:46.270]  And then he brings, at this point, he brings the photos up as he's wanted to do. He
[01:12:46.270 --> 01:12:50.110]  brings them up to the witness. Let's take a look at these. Like the fact that they don't
[01:12:50.110 --> 01:12:53.650]  show everything on the big screen is super annoying to me. It's like half and half.
[01:12:53.650 --> 01:12:59.090]  Like half the stuff, like they always show videos up there. But there was a day with,
[01:13:00.350 --> 01:13:04.730]  like it kind of tells you what their mindset is. The only thing that they showed consistently
[01:13:04.730 --> 01:13:11.190]  up there were the gruesome crime, crime scene photos. Big as all get out. You know what I
[01:13:11.190 --> 01:13:17.730]  mean? Like in all this stuff is just printed on printer paper, color printer. And then they
[01:13:17.730 --> 01:13:22.670]  hand it up to the witness and we don't get to see what it is. So, but 201 through 205,
[01:13:22.670 --> 01:13:27.430]  admitted into evidence and they were still photos that were taken from the video.
[01:13:28.810 --> 01:13:33.210]  And so then he kind of goes, he's like, all right, well, we're going to go back to that.
[01:13:34.430 --> 01:13:40.750]  And then, so once he got the, so after he had given the phone back,
[01:13:40.750 --> 01:13:44.370]  they then gave it back to him. He got it back in order to try to get more data off
[01:13:44.370 --> 01:13:50.310]  the phone. He used some different programs, this lantern, this block light, this magnet
[01:13:50.310 --> 01:13:56.030]  axiom, and this iCloud backup. He was trying to, he was trying to dig more, didn't find anything
[01:13:56.030 --> 01:14:05.450]  else. So the second time he didn't get any new data, September 5th, 2017, got a third
[01:14:05.450 --> 01:14:11.350]  phone extraction. And he used logical as opposed to advanced logical. So there's,
[01:14:11.350 --> 01:14:17.910]  there's tiers, there's different tiers of searches that you can use. And he used
[01:14:17.910 --> 01:14:23.430]  logical. He says it's new tech, you know, any kind of loot. And they asked him why he did it
[01:14:23.430 --> 01:14:27.090]  so many times, because the answer is, you know, when you get new tech, it could lead to new
[01:14:27.090 --> 01:14:32.650]  evidence. It could find things that weren't available earlier. So all he found was new
[01:14:32.650 --> 01:14:38.030]  information that was not relevant. And he had mentioned that he didn't know anything about the
[01:14:38.030 --> 01:14:47.850]  case. So I was curious how he would determine what's relevant and what's not if he doesn't
[01:14:47.850 --> 01:14:55.930]  ask that question. I mean, I guess he could determine what was forensically relevant,
[01:14:56.390 --> 01:15:03.170]  regardless of the facts, right? Right. Maybe. Nook's challenging me over there. He's about
[01:15:03.170 --> 01:15:09.330]  to get booted out of my area. Oh, boy. Okay, so the phone was examined a fourth time
[01:15:09.910 --> 01:15:15.050]  by Chris Cecil, who's the current guy. Chris Cecil is the guy that now was in 2017.
[01:15:15.910 --> 01:15:28.990]  So, so on October 12 of 2017, then this is the cross by Augé. And so on the third extraction,
[01:15:29.290 --> 01:15:36.030]  which was October 12 of 2017, they used the method three extraction, which is was the new
[01:15:36.030 --> 01:15:41.350]  new. So that was the new new. So they're hoping they get that that's really digging,
[01:15:41.350 --> 01:15:45.990]  you know, that's where you get all the deeds like, you know, phone battery information,
[01:15:46.290 --> 01:15:52.810]  all the deep, deep stuff. It's deep, deep into the phone. And that was actually performed
[01:15:52.810 --> 01:15:57.690]  by Homeland Security slash customs, that third one, they didn't find anything new.
[01:15:58.230 --> 01:16:02.870]  September 5 of 2017 phone. So the she's going back to the different searches.
[01:16:02.910 --> 01:16:10.570]  September 5 2017 phone was sent off. Extraction didn't result in any new findings.
[01:16:11.350 --> 01:16:16.750]  And then so she brings up exhibit 186, which is a posted note. She's like she's just busting
[01:16:16.750 --> 01:16:21.910]  his balls. She's like, is that how you is that how your normal routine for your chain of
[01:16:21.910 --> 01:16:27.570]  custody? And then McClellan objects, he says, Hey, we stipulated this. And she's like,
[01:16:27.730 --> 01:16:33.690]  Oh, oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot we stipulated to it. Meaning that they had allowed this
[01:16:33.690 --> 01:16:38.790]  particular report to come in without him having to lay a foundation and show a chain
[01:16:38.790 --> 01:16:44.110]  of custody. So then she asked him a question, you're not self, you're not certified for
[01:16:44.110 --> 01:16:50.010]  celibate, are you? She says, No, I'm not. And then she asked him about the advanced
[01:16:50.010 --> 01:16:54.670]  logical extraction on 215 of 2017. She was catching him on a couple little things that
[01:16:54.670 --> 01:17:00.290]  I don't really think were that significant. And he's and then she asked the follow up
[01:17:00.290 --> 01:17:05.950]  question says, advanced logical extraction and just logical extraction are distinct,
[01:17:05.950 --> 01:17:11.330]  aren't they? He says, Yes, they are. So then she brings up defendants exhibit M.
[01:17:11.530 --> 01:17:16.470]  And it's the front page of a PDF extraction report. And she says, What does it say?
[01:17:16.890 --> 01:17:20.050]  What does it say he used? Because he had already testified that he used
[01:17:20.050 --> 01:17:25.630]  advanced logical extraction. So she got him in a little mishap is it says logical
[01:17:25.630 --> 01:17:29.830]  method. That's what I used. So it was a slight impeachment.
[01:17:31.590 --> 01:17:37.690]  And then she asked if you can do a full file system extraction method two. He said not
[01:17:37.690 --> 01:17:43.210]  he couldn't do it in February of 2017. Well, she said, What about in October of 2017,
[01:17:43.350 --> 01:17:47.770]  method two was done. It's like, Are you saying that you didn't have the capacity to do it?
[01:17:48.530 --> 01:17:51.310]  It's like, we didn't know it existed. She's like, What do you mean? It's like,
[01:17:51.310 --> 01:17:55.950]  we didn't know it existed. It's like, like every forensic data guy on the planet,
[01:17:55.950 --> 01:18:01.750]  we didn't know it was a thing. And so then she goes into this knowledge C database.
[01:18:03.430 --> 01:18:07.790]  And again, he says, We did not know about knowledge C database in 2017.
[01:18:08.450 --> 01:18:11.830]  And just his and she says, Well, just because you didn't know about it,
[01:18:12.850 --> 01:18:18.570]  doesn't mean that it didn't exist. Right? And he says, Yeah, right. I guess. Yeah.
[01:18:19.970 --> 01:18:23.150]  So then she shows Defendants Exhibit A, which is the one on High Bridge,
[01:18:23.150 --> 01:18:31.230]  and then photos of Abby and Libby. So there was data associated with the video. Yes,
[01:18:31.490 --> 01:18:39.850]  celebrate. You got a map video dump. So after, like, so I should have said, like,
[01:18:39.850 --> 01:18:47.650]  so basically, once they got the video into evidence, we watched it. And, you know,
[01:18:47.650 --> 01:18:51.950]  this is the video that they obviously pulled that short footage from, which has obviously
[01:18:51.950 --> 01:18:58.190]  been enhanced. You can tell by how blurry the guy is. And then I'll talk about Bridge
[01:18:58.190 --> 01:19:03.650]  guy and you know, we have the audio. So the thing when they first ran it, I'm like, man,
[01:19:03.670 --> 01:19:10.850]  that didn't seem like 4043 seconds. And so the beginning of the video, it's a shot of,
[01:19:11.030 --> 01:19:18.330]  I'd say, Abby getting towards the end of the High Bridge in terms of the bridge itself,
[01:19:18.330 --> 01:19:26.890]  the trestle. But I'd say she's probably like 12 to 15 yards away from Libby. So Libby then
[01:19:26.890 --> 01:19:32.110]  has a shot of her and then the phone goes down and she's showing like some gravel on the side.
[01:19:32.290 --> 01:19:38.050]  She says, oh, and she's talking gently. She's like, oh, here's some gravel. And then she
[01:19:38.050 --> 01:19:44.790]  comes back up and you can see that like, Abby's kind of like jogging towards her. Like,
[01:19:44.790 --> 01:19:50.630]  nobody seems panicked. And then she goes back to the ground. She says, oh, here's she says,
[01:19:52.550 --> 01:19:57.050]  she says, she says there is no path, but this is where we can go down.
[01:19:58.710 --> 01:20:04.390]  She's showing the side like past where the bridge is tracks are still there. But then there's
[01:20:04.390 --> 01:20:10.650]  this kind of gravel area. I'm 95% certain that's what she says. And at the end of it,
[01:20:10.650 --> 01:20:17.830]  I thought at the very end of the video, I thought I heard like a guy's voice,
[01:20:18.250 --> 01:20:24.470]  but I couldn't hear what he said. So the first thing that I'm thinking when I watch this video
[01:20:24.470 --> 01:20:30.390]  is that I didn't see bridge guy. Like where was he? Now I'm watching it on the big screen
[01:20:30.390 --> 01:20:35.290]  like we all were. Like I said a bunch of times, there's an 85 inch big screen in there.
[01:20:35.290 --> 01:20:40.510]  I'm watching it. I'm like, I didn't even see the dude. And I asked somebody like,
[01:20:41.230 --> 01:20:43.690]  because I think we took a break right around there. I'm like, did you?
[01:20:45.010 --> 01:20:49.870]  Did you? Oh, I almost I almost injured a pregnant lady today. She was walking down
[01:20:49.870 --> 01:20:56.210]  for the break. She had like, and she's she's pretty pregnant. And she had like a really big
[01:20:56.210 --> 01:21:00.690]  pillow. And I was chatting with her. And I'm like, did you think that that was 43 seconds
[01:21:00.690 --> 01:21:06.550]  long? She's like, Oh, yeah, it was 43 seconds. I'm like, really? And so she was carrying her big
[01:21:06.550 --> 01:21:12.050]  pillow, like real low below her belly. And it was like, you know, a comfort pillow for like,
[01:21:12.290 --> 01:21:14.930]  you know, where they go like a bump, like a boppy or whatever those
[01:21:14.930 --> 01:21:18.150]  Right to support her stomach while she's sitting all day.
[01:21:18.170 --> 01:21:24.610]  Yeah, well, or her butt. So at any rate, the thing had like tags, like really long
[01:21:26.010 --> 01:21:31.590]  hanging down. And I didn't see it. And like, she was a step in front of me. And I accidentally
[01:21:31.590 --> 01:21:37.370]  stepped on the tag. So luckily, she was at the bottom of the stairs. And she like starts to fall
[01:21:37.370 --> 01:21:41.470]  forward. And I like grab her. But she gets down and she hits her knees. So yeah, it's like,
[01:21:42.090 --> 01:21:45.970]  oh, I'm like, I'm sure I'm sure there's gonna be some some creator out there is gonna
[01:21:45.970 --> 01:21:52.510]  say I tried to push nice pregnant lady downstairs. He's always children and pregnant
[01:21:52.510 --> 01:22:00.170]  ladies. Yeah. Wait, but I had a question. But they are like, let me I want to finish my thoughts
[01:22:00.170 --> 01:22:06.470]  and then you ask away like on the video itself. So but like, like, so I don't see bridge guy,
[01:22:06.670 --> 01:22:12.930]  like from the first view, and they don't show it again. With this witness at any point. And
[01:22:12.930 --> 01:22:18.410]  all Jay doesn't show it during cross we see it one time quick, you know, and I'm like,
[01:22:18.450 --> 01:22:21.990]  what the hell was Libby saying, you know, I was like, I wanted to play it a bunch of
[01:22:21.990 --> 01:22:27.330]  times. So we go out and then so those are my first impressions. I'm like, I didn't really see
[01:22:27.970 --> 01:22:34.690]  bridge guy, the girls, neither of the girls seem panic to me. They like they didn't seem
[01:22:34.690 --> 01:22:39.710]  like that they were like neither of them seem concerned that this guy was chasing them or
[01:22:39.710 --> 01:22:47.330]  coming towards them. Like to me, in all honesty, if I'm if I'm kind of really trying to look
[01:22:47.330 --> 01:22:54.230]  at it from a intellectually honest way, like if I didn't have preconceived notions of what the
[01:22:54.230 --> 01:22:58.510]  state thought that they did, if I was just looking at this video for a first time,
[01:22:58.930 --> 01:23:03.310]  I wouldn't think that there was anything to it. Like, I wouldn't think that there was any
[01:23:03.310 --> 01:23:09.330]  indicia of a kidnapping based on that video. Right. It's the timing of and I guess we might
[01:23:09.330 --> 01:23:14.870]  hear more when the defense starts putting on cellular data, but it's the timing of no more
[01:23:15.550 --> 01:23:21.670]  usage, no more messages that makes it, you know, seem like the most logical conclusion is the
[01:23:21.670 --> 01:23:27.250]  person had something to do with the murders or that they were actually directing them down the
[01:23:27.250 --> 01:23:31.730]  hill. But when you and I first heard it, we were like, I mean, that could have been
[01:23:31.730 --> 01:23:37.290]  and I think my example was something like, don't fall guys down the hill, you know,
[01:23:37.370 --> 01:23:42.130]  or watch out down the hill, you know, like, or don't go down the hill.
[01:23:42.970 --> 01:23:47.070]  Um, are you guys having a hard time hearing me? I'm a little further away from my mic than usual
[01:23:47.070 --> 01:23:52.630]  here. I'll move it. Is that better? Does that sound better? I wasn't hearing it. I see that
[01:23:52.630 --> 01:23:57.550]  people are, you know, just that there was one connection should be good. Let me know if this
[01:23:57.550 --> 01:24:00.930]  is good. Yeah, I have my I have a little bit of a different setup. I don't have a full
[01:24:00.930 --> 01:24:06.330]  table in front of me. So okay, good. Yeah. Let me know in the chat if you guys. But
[01:24:06.330 --> 01:24:12.110]  obviously, again, based on the timing, I just wanted to reiterate that it does seem the most
[01:24:13.750 --> 01:24:20.930]  likely scenario would be that that person had something to do with the red rum. But
[01:24:20.930 --> 01:24:27.330]  from what you're describing, it's like on the video itself, it almost if you knew nothing else,
[01:24:27.410 --> 01:24:30.570]  it would look like that person was, you know, like it was nothing.
[01:24:31.870 --> 01:24:38.610]  Right. So like, here's my here's my like, and I'm going to save this this thought,
[01:24:38.610 --> 01:24:43.430]  what my impression was until after we get the guy, because I was telling her ability,
[01:24:43.570 --> 01:24:48.230]  where they're going to obviously put the guy who enhanced the video in the picture and audio,
[01:24:48.410 --> 01:24:52.350]  he's going to be next was my prediction. And it was it was correct, because I'm like,
[01:24:52.430 --> 01:24:55.670]  there's no way they're not going to show the enhanced video. Oh, so they did.
[01:24:57.790 --> 01:25:02.270]  Yeah, but like, I'm not going to get there yet. So, so the kind of like the the one
[01:25:02.270 --> 01:25:09.210]  thing that was interesting about this is that OJ goes up to him with she asks,
[01:25:10.030 --> 01:25:15.490]  there was there was data associated with this video, correct? He says, yes. And he's like,
[01:25:15.610 --> 01:25:22.220]  and she asked, well, celebrate can can map a video, meaning that it can show where a video
[01:25:23.450 --> 01:25:29.450]  geographically was taken, correct? And he says, yes. And so she goes up to him, she says,
[01:25:29.450 --> 01:25:35.270]  sharing defendants M, and this map shows longitude and latitude, does it not?
[01:25:36.370 --> 01:25:41.230]  And he says, yes, it appears to. And she says, that's actually nowhere near the bridge,
[01:25:41.770 --> 01:25:48.730]  is it? He says, says, well, no, it appears to be about a mile away from the bridge.
[01:25:49.190 --> 01:25:53.410]  And it looks like it's at the Memorial Park. So Abby and Libby Memorial Park, I'm assuming.
[01:25:54.630 --> 01:25:58.270]  And she she hands him the map. She's like, Okay, sir, I want you to circle
[01:25:58.270 --> 01:26:06.450]  and initial where the longitude and longitude and latitude on that map, because this is back
[01:26:06.450 --> 01:26:11.230]  when they're going to deliberate. She's done that a couple of times where she's had a witness
[01:26:11.790 --> 01:26:19.590]  markup and exhibit with circling something that she thinks is relevant and important.
[01:26:19.710 --> 01:26:24.110]  And then she has the witness initial in order to kind of trigger it. So it's probably
[01:26:24.110 --> 01:26:30.770]  a good little evidence trick. And so his answer is it's nowhere near the bridge.
[01:26:30.930 --> 01:26:38.010]  He says it's somewhere in Delphi. So she says, Well, did you point that out to investigators,
[01:26:38.010 --> 01:26:43.510]  the fact that the video doesn't appear to match up or it says that it was filmed?
[01:26:44.530 --> 01:26:49.730]  He says, No, I didn't. And then so she gets into iMessaging.
[01:26:53.490 --> 01:26:59.470]  And he asked, you know, that depends on whether or not the phone was turned on.
[01:27:00.070 --> 01:27:04.450]  And it just says iMessaging whether that was that toggle was turned on on the phone.
[01:27:04.570 --> 01:27:10.750]  He says that's correct. And so she shows a bunch of exhibits of the photographs that he
[01:27:10.750 --> 01:27:19.710]  took, which was 195, 196, 197, 199. And he printed them in landscape form, instead of
[01:27:19.710 --> 01:27:25.150]  portrait. Okay, so it's so there's a bunch of stuff caught up, cut off at the bottom.
[01:27:25.310 --> 01:27:28.950]  And she says, Well, there's a bunch of missing info, isn't there on 195? He says,
[01:27:29.450 --> 01:27:32.390]  Yeah, there is. She's like, that could have been important, right? He's like,
[01:27:32.850 --> 01:27:39.830]  maybe, you know, and same with 196, 197, 199. All of them were taken in these screen grabs
[01:27:39.830 --> 01:27:44.510]  were taking in landscape mode, which is weird. Very weird. And he didn't just print the
[01:27:44.510 --> 01:27:47.990]  report, right? Instead of doing a screen grab of his report.
[01:27:48.110 --> 01:27:53.390]  Right. And it's like you and I both know that when you get like, like the original
[01:27:54.510 --> 01:27:59.250]  cellulite report is not in the fashion that you see it when they typically give you the
[01:27:59.250 --> 01:28:04.970]  report that they that the forensic guy prepares for law enforcement to look at that that's like
[01:28:04.970 --> 01:28:11.990]  a very diluted down version of the raw data that the cellulite software has put out which
[01:28:11.990 --> 01:28:17.310]  like this guy was saying hundreds of pages long. So he's trying to call all the relevant
[01:28:17.310 --> 01:28:24.510]  data out typically before the detectives get like a very watered down version of what
[01:28:24.510 --> 01:28:29.990]  the forensic guy deemed to be relevant to the case. That's what the cops and the detectives
[01:28:29.990 --> 01:28:41.550]  that are working the case get. So he then she keeps going a little bit. And so she starts
[01:28:41.550 --> 01:28:51.410]  trying to delve into iMessaging. And this is a wow moment for me. This is the second or
[01:28:51.410 --> 01:28:56.090]  third time that McClellan has like in my estimation flame thrown his own witness.
[01:28:56.810 --> 01:29:02.670]  So as soon as she starts asking about iMessages and like the ability for
[01:29:03.970 --> 01:29:09.550]  cellulite to be able to extract them and for
[01:29:12.090 --> 01:29:16.970]  him to be able to start talking about it. McClellan tells the judge he wants to
[01:29:16.970 --> 01:29:23.490]  vordere his witness on foundational issues. So he starts asking him he's like
[01:29:24.610 --> 01:29:30.270]  you really don't have any you have a real lack of knowledge about iPhones. Isn't that
[01:29:30.270 --> 01:29:35.510]  true? He's like you've never been trained in terms of specifically examining iPhones. He's
[01:29:35.510 --> 01:29:39.430]  like yeah that's correct. And the same with iMessaging, right? He's like yeah he's like
[01:29:39.430 --> 01:29:45.370]  you're not really qualified to talk about iPhones or iMessaging. I couldn't believe it.
[01:29:45.490 --> 01:29:50.830]  It's like like Nick doesn't care. He's just like he's like I don't. It's a joke. I mean I
[01:29:50.830 --> 01:30:00.250]  can't. He's like I don't want this guy talking about this shit. So I don't care if he's my
[01:30:00.250 --> 01:30:05.850]  celebrity extraction of an iPhone and then said you don't really know anything about iPhones.
[01:30:06.670 --> 01:30:10.770]  This circles back to what you said originally. How now is he determining what is relevant
[01:30:10.770 --> 01:30:17.250]  if he doesn't know how an iPhone works? Exactly. What? Right. That's even worse
[01:30:17.250 --> 01:30:22.130]  than not knowing the facts. Fine, I don't know any of the facts but at least know the product.
[01:30:22.990 --> 01:30:29.930]  Right. So basically they establish that he isn't knowledgeable enough about iPhones or
[01:30:29.930 --> 01:30:34.270]  messages for to ask questions about it. So the judge finds he's not competent to answer those
[01:30:34.270 --> 01:30:38.650]  questions. Yeah, I mean basically. I don't I can't remember if they did like a brief sidebar
[01:30:38.650 --> 01:30:43.330]  if they just walked up to the bench and got kind of like a ruling on it. I think they
[01:30:43.330 --> 01:30:48.470]  walked up to the bench briefly. So then Auge asked find my iPhone was enabled on the phone
[01:30:48.470 --> 01:30:53.710]  correctly. He says it appears it was. He knows what that is at least. Yeah and then she
[01:30:53.710 --> 01:31:00.570]  says find my iPhone and so he objects and sustains it. I think it relates back to the iPhone.
[01:31:00.770 --> 01:31:05.070]  He knows nothing about iPhones. Right, he doesn't know anything about that. So she says isn't it
[01:31:05.070 --> 01:31:10.490]  true that every time you... Wait, she's allowed to say isn't it true? Come on.
[01:31:11.170 --> 01:31:15.950]  I may have just written that. Okay. That's my catchphrase. Right. But I'm just saying
[01:31:15.950 --> 01:31:20.690]  they're all that's all cross-examination phrases. It's definitely all the same shit.
[01:31:20.690 --> 01:31:26.770]  Yeah you guys I think I had my mic just a little too far. I was giving my little mic here a little
[01:31:26.770 --> 01:31:37.230]  too much love in terms of its pickup. But okay so then at that point she changes course.
[01:31:37.230 --> 01:31:41.970]  She asks that every time you plug a phone in or I'm sorry every time that you turn a phone
[01:31:41.970 --> 01:31:50.670]  on and off it loses some data. Isn't that correct? He says yes it is. Except I wouldn't
[01:31:50.670 --> 01:31:55.110]  about that. Don't ask me. So on February 15th when the phone was turned off
[01:31:55.110 --> 01:32:01.750]  you lost some data. Correct? Yes. On February 17th when you turned the phone on and off
[01:32:01.750 --> 01:32:07.250]  you lost a little bit of data. Didn't you? Yes. October 11th. Yes. 2019. You lost data
[01:32:07.250 --> 01:32:12.110]  that you can never get back. Correct? He says that's correct. And then
[01:32:12.110 --> 01:32:19.830]  um so she says when uh when find my iPhone is enabled that means it's on.
[01:32:20.250 --> 01:32:26.390]  Correct? He says correct. So then the redirect. Objection. He doesn't know about iPhone.
[01:32:26.590 --> 01:32:32.390]  What's uh what's find my iPhone? So McClellan redirects him says you know like okay so
[01:32:32.390 --> 01:32:37.490]  you've never received formal training from Celibright but you've trained on the software.
[01:32:37.570 --> 01:32:41.850]  He's like correct. But so the only difference is is that you've just never gotten a piece
[01:32:41.850 --> 01:32:46.130]  of paper that says you're certified but you received the exact same training on Celibright.
[01:32:46.130 --> 01:32:51.230]  He's like yeah I mean the defense could have challenged him on it. I I've been
[01:32:51.230 --> 01:32:58.610]  screaming to you mostly and I don't know I don't I I'm not sure like I wasn't there
[01:32:58.610 --> 01:33:04.330]  when the defense listed their witness list. Why is the defense not having their own
[01:33:04.970 --> 01:33:14.250]  expert analyze the raw data of the phones or at least something? They used a guy who's not even
[01:33:14.250 --> 01:33:19.950]  certified in Celibright and who's now said he doesn't know jack about iPhones so he's not
[01:33:19.950 --> 01:33:26.250]  even competent to testify about what data an iPhone has how you collect data from an iPhone
[01:33:26.250 --> 01:33:31.910]  blah blah blah and he also doesn't know shit about Celibright. Shinola.
[01:33:32.110 --> 01:33:40.630]  Alright so the redirect keeps going so the GPS location in terms of the longitudinal and
[01:33:43.070 --> 01:33:50.610]  latitudinal that that that was basically that was not that accurate back in 2017. He says
[01:33:50.610 --> 01:33:56.230]  well it was just the general area of Delphi. He says when you start a video
[01:33:56.250 --> 01:34:03.950]  um and so he was trying to talk about like how when like if you start a snapchat video
[01:34:03.950 --> 01:34:09.450]  and it's trying to give your geographic location McLean was saying it starts at like a macro
[01:34:09.450 --> 01:34:15.310]  level right and then as the longer the video is on the more it closes in on your location
[01:34:15.310 --> 01:34:19.490]  and this guy was saying that that's legit I mean I'm assuming like I don't know if that's
[01:34:19.490 --> 01:34:49.470]  True or not? But at this point, like, they, like, so, like, I was screaming, object. I'm like, what is the foundation? This guy has any knowledge to say that? And I'm like, they didn't object. I put object with triple exclamation points. So, so he says, the GPS location, do you, do you know, as you sit here today, how accurate the data or the location is? Right? Like, he's guessing, you should have objected, you know,
[01:34:50.630 --> 01:35:19.450]  and he says, can you tell what the data, can you tell what the data in terms of latitude and longitude was, in terms of where the phone actually was? He says, no. And then on recross, he says, in 2017, the only location data you had was the GPS coordinates were that were on our map, correct? And this is doge asking, he says, yeah, that's right. And she said, you map the video, but you map nothing else. And then later in 2024,
[01:35:20.190 --> 01:35:48.230]  Cecil found additional coordinates. So, and then she was done. And see, remember, Cecil is the guy currently, the one's currently in the digital forensics position right now. He'll be the one testifying. So jury questions, question one. Okay, so wait, I want to make sure I read this right.
[01:35:48.230 --> 01:36:17.870]  I was gonna say you could always compare Andrea's. No, she didn't. I only had her send me the first witness. Oh, I thought you said she sent you everything anyway. Are you guys still having a hard time hearing me? One person did. Oh, really? But actually Spitfires using earbuds. So, I mean, just, I guess move it a little closer. I mean, I can't it's on the arm of a chair, because that's what I'm saying. I don't have I do I do hear you better when you faced it. But everyone's saying your sounds fine. Can you guys hear me now? No. Hello. Hello.
[01:36:18.950 --> 01:36:52.420]  Yeah, well, I'm not gonna hold the mic. I need it. Like, I don't have my arm. Alright, so one of the jury questions was, okay, what? What is the knowledge C database? And he said it's a screen by screen data from the phone. Because they like they kept talking about the knowledge C database. And he says it's what it really is, is it gives you like a much, a much more finite
[01:36:53.420 --> 01:37:20.560]  detailed breakdown and extraction of the phone screen by screen. Most of them like everything proceeding that didn't. Oh, and then they asked on 2 13. On February 13. What time was the what time is shown on the map for the longitude and latitude as as it being taken? And it's it was
[01:37:20.560 --> 01:37:30.980]  2 13pm. So that was a question. They wanted to know if like if it matched up with the last activity, where the longitude latitude is saying it was
[01:37:30.980 --> 01:37:33.200]  Wait, wait. So what was 2 13?
[01:37:34.320 --> 01:37:50.540]  The phone was used on 2 13. The last in the video was taken at 2 13pm. That's why I was saying it's a little bit that's strange, right? Well, wait, the girls died on 2 13 in the video was taken at 2 13pm. So the jury question was they hadn't given the answer
[01:37:50.540 --> 01:37:52.160]  on what time the video was taken.
[01:37:54.260 --> 01:37:56.340]  So that was a 2 13pm.
[01:37:57.080 --> 01:38:20.140]  Okay, and then the question. So revolving around the knowledge seed database McClellan, he followed up. He's like, you didn't know that that existed, right? He's like, correct. He's like that he's like, nobody knew. None of us in the field knew that that was a thing, the knowledge seed database. So question three.
[01:38:22.280 --> 01:38:37.120]  They asked, was the report from October 17th from Indiana State Police or from Homeland Security? He said ultimately it came from ISP. Question four was knowledge seed database provided by Homeland Security.
[01:38:37.600 --> 01:38:47.340]  And then his answer was yes, I believe so. But they still didn't find anything extra. And again, but that's that's a 2017. So like at that point, it's
[01:38:47.340 --> 01:38:52.440]  still a long time ago and you guys know how tech moves. So we're light years beyond that at this point.
[01:38:53.860 --> 01:39:03.940]  They didn't know about it. And he said that Sally Bright didn't even know about the knowledge seed database. Like that wasn't something that they were even aware of to add it to their software suite.
[01:39:06.100 --> 01:39:14.620]  And then I guess this witness kept talking about we. Who was we? I said it was the Royal we. That's who.
[01:39:14.620 --> 01:39:25.340]  Guys, anybody who's still asking about the seed was not the defense side, the defense lawyers. Bob gave a whole description of how it came about in the beginning. So just rewind.
[01:39:25.500 --> 01:39:35.420]  Yeah, just watch. Kathy Allen. And that's who put me in the seed. Had nothing to do with the defense. I mean, the defense writes the list for the
[01:39:36.500 --> 01:39:40.460]  you know, the family. So I mean, like, that's, that's it.
[01:39:42.360 --> 01:39:49.560]  Like, I mean, if anybody had the guts to ask me in person, like, I would have given them an answer. Think about that.
[01:39:50.520 --> 01:39:52.180]  It's so much more fun, though.
[01:39:52.620 --> 01:39:55.160]  Yeah, I was just going to let them keep being wrong forever.
[01:39:55.500 --> 01:39:55.980]  I know.
[01:39:56.760 --> 01:39:58.400]  Let them keep being wrong.
[01:39:58.540 --> 01:40:10.000]  Like, dude, just let them keep yapping, yapping, yapping. Like, I could care less. I could care. Like, I don't care. I could care less. Like, why are you reporting on anything other than the trial? That's what you know.
[01:40:10.240 --> 01:40:12.640]  Right. So let's move on. Keep going, babe.
[01:40:13.540 --> 01:40:18.120]  Yeah, I've called. I've been on Gray's show. Gray's always welcome to come over here. I'd love to flamethrow him.
[01:40:18.940 --> 01:40:31.180]  You tell him to come on over. He can come to my house. See if he wants to hang out. I answered all his questions. All right. So question five. Are you aware of any deleted photos?
[01:40:32.660 --> 01:40:33.100]  No.
[01:40:33.460 --> 01:40:35.500]  Your sound did just get a little low, babe.
[01:40:36.220 --> 01:40:36.540]  All right.
[01:40:38.040 --> 01:40:38.480]  Really?
[01:40:39.400 --> 01:40:39.880]  To me.
[01:40:40.240 --> 01:40:47.100]  All right. Maybe I'll try sticking it here on my lap. How about that? Is that better? Is it?
[01:40:48.040 --> 01:40:48.620]  Yeah.
[01:40:52.420 --> 01:40:54.860]  No, you tapped something. You're muted.
[01:40:55.940 --> 01:40:58.220]  All right. So does Snapchat save photos?
[01:40:58.860 --> 01:41:03.640]  Great question. No, but I can't believe that that wasn't something that either side brought out.
[01:41:03.640 --> 01:41:12.640]  It's crazy. No one asked about, like, when Snapchat... we know because our kids use Snapchat that they share location with all their friends.
[01:41:12.920 --> 01:41:13.060]  Yeah.
[01:41:13.060 --> 01:41:24.200]  I keep talking about it. No one ever asked the question. I was asking, like, I was with... I saw Barb McDonald when I was eating lunch. I was alone. And then her and another reporter over there.
[01:41:24.200 --> 01:41:29.500]  Reporter was much younger. I'm like, you're young. I'm sure you use Snapchat. I'm like, I don't use it. I'm like,
[01:41:29.500 --> 01:41:35.260]  But like, do you know when the sharing of location came about on Snap?
[01:41:36.100 --> 01:41:58.160]  And she's like, I was trying to think about that the other day, because I'm like, why isn't anyone asking whether or not the Snap location was shared? You know, and she's like, I think I was in college back in 2017. And that she thought that it came out later that year. Like that that feature on Snapchat where it shares your location.
[01:42:00.280 --> 01:42:05.000]  All right. So then question seven, Memorial Park.
[01:42:05.360 --> 01:42:12.800]  Wait, what the question five was? Oh, we know the answer. Like, do they say it's a setting for 24 hours?
[01:42:14.240 --> 01:42:24.240]  Well, no, there's actually I asked Cameron, our daughter, and you can save them. There's a feature where you can save them. Or it'll, it'll, it'll ship it to your photos.
[01:42:25.520 --> 01:42:26.920]  But you have to set it.
[01:42:27.020 --> 01:42:27.800]  Yes, it's a setting.
[01:42:27.800 --> 01:42:32.360]  And is that what the expert testified to as well? Or he says, I don't know about Snapchat or iPhones.
[01:42:33.340 --> 01:42:35.560]  He yeah, he's like, I don't know what, what's Snapchat?
[01:42:37.720 --> 01:42:52.840]  So his answer is yes, I think that you can. But he didn't give any details. So question seven, Memorial Park, could iCloud, could that have pulled that location? And the Cleveland says,
[01:42:54.060 --> 01:43:17.340]  you know, that they that the iCloud probably could not have pulled that location of where it was. So eight was, was there software in October of 17 that could have used the method to info or the method to technique made it digestible and mclellan said no.
[01:43:17.340 --> 01:43:23.420]  So like this method two is like, basically, it's just method one, as you plug the thing.
[01:43:23.680 --> 01:43:25.040]  Wait, but that was the jurors question.
[01:43:25.580 --> 01:43:26.580]  Yes, I'm telling you these.
[01:43:26.840 --> 01:43:28.500]  Say it again about this digestible thing.
[01:43:29.160 --> 01:43:46.600]  I think I wrote the word digestible. But that was the point of the question. Yeah, it was there a software available anywhere in the world in October of 2017, that they could have used the method to technique in order to get that info and could they have made it in a
[01:43:46.600 --> 01:43:59.200]  it's a great question. Like I was I couldn't remember. I'm trying to remember who wrote it. And, you know, and could it be formatted in a way that was digestible for people to read and, you know, take in the information mclellan said no.
[01:43:59.380 --> 01:44:00.940]  Wait, mclellan answered the question?
[01:44:01.060 --> 01:44:07.620]  Yes, that's how it always goes. It's always like, well, the expert will answer it and then mclellan will follow up.
[01:44:07.920 --> 01:44:08.320]  Right.
[01:44:09.140 --> 01:44:24.900]  And then question nine. Do you ever take a photo? Did you ever take a photo? I love this question so much. Did you ever take a photo of the lock screen to show the notifications that were on the phone when you got it?
[01:44:25.400 --> 01:44:25.840]  Wow.
[01:44:26.540 --> 01:44:28.880]  And he said no. And then it was lunch.
[01:44:28.960 --> 01:44:30.960]  See, there's a guy who was not trained.
[01:44:32.320 --> 01:44:35.680]  Well, he doesn't understand Apple. He doesn't know.
[01:44:36.200 --> 01:44:40.360]  He's like, I don't... he's like, that was an iPhone 6, man. That's like before my time.
[01:44:41.400 --> 01:44:45.660]  That's like my dad's phone. I think he's like a... he's still got an iPhone 3.
[01:44:45.660 --> 01:44:49.420]  It still shows the notifications like the juror asked.
[01:44:49.940 --> 01:44:50.760]  I know.
[01:44:51.980 --> 01:45:01.960]  Alright, so we had a nice lunch, went back, witnessed three for the day. Jeremy Chapman, another Indiana State police cop of 30 years. I believe that he's retired at this point.
[01:45:02.820 --> 01:45:23.540]  At the time, he was the systems administrator, a forensic examiner, EV208 was his CV. He's an AV tech guy. So I knew this was the guy that he did all the enhancement work.
[01:45:25.140 --> 01:45:36.480]  So they get right into it. He used a video forensic suite to enhance videos. He takes the videos and he tries to make it clear for the trier of fact.
[01:45:37.420 --> 01:45:47.780]  He said audio is difficult. It's a difficult program. He says he uses Adobe Suite and he uses certain filters and plugins, much like Darren does, our audio guy.
[01:45:50.080 --> 01:46:05.400]  2017, he was extracting computers, phones, hard drives, flash drives. So on the 17th, no on the 15th, he was sent the video by Bonner, the guy who just testified, a video of two girls.
[01:46:05.980 --> 01:46:23.680]  He played the video. We watched a bunch of times. And then he said he watched it many, many, many, many times in order to come up with frame candidates. Frame candidates are like in a specific frame that he thinks that he needs to try to enhance.
[01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:41.000]  So he's pulling just a one frame from a video. I don't know if you ever do it, babe, because you're not typically editing little shorts like I do. But when I'm on CapCut, if I've got a video that I've filmed, I can see frame by frame.
[01:46:41.100 --> 01:46:51.700]  So you can pull frames. So he's essentially doing the same thing. As it turns out, I think I could have done exactly what this guy did, in terms of his enhancement skills.
[01:46:52.300 --> 01:47:15.840]  And you know, anybody who watches us knows, you should not feel comfortable with that. I am not a tech savvy dude. So at this point, the question is, so you enhance the videos? He's like, well, I really enhanced pictures. I took stills. I took screenshots. I had grabs of, you know, what we call frame candidates.
[01:47:16.880 --> 01:47:41.620]  So he puts in Chapman's report, which is EV-209. And there's, which photos did you enhance? So he goes through, and he talks about very specific frames within the video itself. So he's like, there were three candidates for frames that I thought that I could enhance. It was 370, frame number 370, 347, 343.
[01:47:42.880 --> 01:48:01.740]  Those were the ones I elected to try to enhance. And at this point, there was an objection to the report. And you know, she was trying to say, like, this guy didn't lay the foundation in terms of trying to get the report in. She's like, but she's like, the whole report's there.
[01:48:01.740 --> 01:48:23.480]  Because like, Nick was trying to put the entire report into evidence. The objection should have not have been lack of foundation. It should have been hearsay. Guy's a cop. You don't put cop reports into evidence. Like, are we in crazy world all of a sudden? And I don't think there's no business record exception to that. It's a cop. He's not an independent forensic guy. He's a cop.
[01:48:24.880 --> 01:48:36.500]  I don't like it. I thought that it should have been hearsay objection. She let it in anyway. It was admitted as it related to the pictures. So it's not admitted for the full content of the report itself.
[01:48:37.300 --> 01:49:06.100]  So as far as frame 370, that was the first frame that he enhanced. He used this AMP, AMP5 software. So and then what he said, I loaded the image in. I rotated it. I cropped it. I resized it. I adjusted the levels. I did some blocking. And then I did a little optical upgrade.
[01:49:06.100 --> 01:49:25.500]  Like those are the five things he did. He's like, so that was done. That was the finished product. It's like 347 was the second frame. Again, 343 is the third frame. He did the same tech, the same thing. He's basically taking a picture, blowing it up, cropping it. He's doing what I do on my phone every day on Twitter.
[01:49:25.500 --> 01:49:43.140]  Like with pictures where if I've got something when I've had to take a screen grab of it, I take it. I crop it. I reframe it. I need to rotate it. I rotate, you know, so I mean, and like my favorite quote from this guy is once something is blurry, it's blurry.
[01:49:43.780 --> 01:50:07.180]  I was like, I mean, there you have it. There you have it. That's it. So then they move on to enhancing the audio. And he said that the expert said on the stand that it caused an objection and I thought that it was an issue because there had been a motion in Lemonade about this.
[01:50:08.060 --> 01:50:31.500]  And he accidentally slipped on the stand. And when Nick asked him a question, because he accidentally said what Nick asked him what he what audio he was trying to enhance, he says, oh, you know, the part where he says down the hill and he's like, oh, you know, the part where the it sounds like there's a male voice, but he had already let slip with it.
[01:50:32.680 --> 01:50:51.200]  Right. So he'd already planted the seed with the jurors who theoretically had not heard this audio ever. So now he said it. I thought like not that she would ever have granted, but I probably wouldn't have made a mistrial objection. It's kind of the basis of their entire case. It's the basis for the kidnapping charge.
[01:50:51.600 --> 01:50:57.720]  And I'm assuming she granted their motion in Lemonade on that ground, that it was just going to be the jurors had to hear it for themselves.
[01:50:58.720 --> 01:51:05.840]  No, she didn't. I don't think. I mean, the guy, the expert said that the dude said down the hill. So at any rate.
[01:51:06.520 --> 01:51:08.220]  I thought you said he said he'd let it slip.
[01:51:08.420 --> 01:51:22.480]  He said it on the stand. Right. But he wanted to ask them what sound he was trying to enhance. And the guy said the part where the dude says down the hill is oops. I mean, you know, the part where the very end where there's the male voice. That's why I was trying to enhance.
[01:51:22.940 --> 01:51:25.980]  Right. Which makes it seem like he knew he wasn't supposed to say the words.
[01:51:25.980 --> 01:51:35.120]  Right. And again, so what they did before they got to the audio and before they had like before they got into this, before they showed the enhancement, they showed the original.
[01:51:35.820 --> 01:51:39.980]  And again, it's like this, this part in the beginning where Libby.
[01:51:41.020 --> 01:51:51.860]  And you never see her face like it's she never turns the camera on herself. You just see Abby for a minute. She then turns it to the ground. It's like she's looking at this gravel on the side of the tracks.
[01:51:51.860 --> 01:52:03.020]  And then she says, oh, there's like there's the gravel. And like, I don't know who she's talking to. And by the time that she says there is no path, there is no path down.
[01:52:05.940 --> 01:52:18.820]  At that point, Abby's tour. So this is the perfect time for me to say my issue with this. And so the second time they showed the video, I could see way, way back.
[01:52:18.820 --> 01:52:32.980]  Like, like, I'm obviously having to guesstimate, like, but it looked to me to be 25 to 30 yards behind Abby. You can see a figure way back there who's still very much on the high bridge.
[01:52:33.320 --> 01:52:44.680]  So he's on the trestle proper. Like, remember, it seems to me that Libby when she's filming is standing past where the trestle is. You still have the tracks, but you're not on the bridge anymore.
[01:52:44.680 --> 01:52:58.380]  So this guy is so far behind. And everybody that's testified about this bridge, no one is running across that bridge. No one. You cannot cross that bridge without looking down.
[01:52:58.740 --> 01:53:08.160]  We've had witnesses on the stand saying that I've only taken two steps on it, that I've crossed it. And Kelsey said that she crossed it on her hands and knees.
[01:53:08.160 --> 01:53:17.660]  That's how scary the shit was. And she didn't even cross it. She said when she went out on it, she didn't feel secure enough to walk it standing.
[01:53:20.200 --> 01:53:33.900]  So my thing is, is how does that dude who was, because like I said, in this 43 seconds, she flashes up to Abby a second time, and Abby, you can see, is within feet of her.
[01:53:34.640 --> 01:53:45.200]  Okay, so how does this guy that's that far back get close enough to where the phone's catching any audio of that guy?
[01:53:46.740 --> 01:53:53.360]  Because this dude's not yelling. This is a guy speaking in just a normal speaking voice.
[01:53:54.780 --> 01:53:56.740]  I mean, is it possible?
[01:53:56.960 --> 01:54:07.580]  I'm gonna be really curious. I can't, like, I really want to see how the jury is going to interpret this video. You know, it's such a huge part of their case.
[01:54:08.720 --> 01:54:15.180]  You know, what you're saying is that the audio and the image are not at the same time?
[01:54:16.500 --> 01:54:18.020]  In the 49 seconds.
[01:54:18.140 --> 01:54:21.540]  We don't really know. We really don't know.
[01:54:21.840 --> 01:54:29.380]  Like, the dude's not in frame, but for a million miles back, there's no way they can tell if this guy's mouth is moving.
[01:54:30.180 --> 01:54:39.860]  There's no way. It's implausible. Like, that was the thing that they were saying, the defense are like, we have no way, like you have no way to show that this guy was actually saying those words.
[01:54:40.600 --> 01:54:45.140]  So, he goes through the process of enhancing the video.
[01:54:48.300 --> 01:54:55.820]  And then, so Aje asks him, do you have specialized training in listening?
[01:54:56.940 --> 01:55:01.740]  He's like, no. Do you have specialized skills or training in hearing?
[01:55:01.740 --> 01:55:15.440]  And he says no. And then, Gull allows him to ask, or McLeanland to ask the opinion, because she jumped in for a foundational voir dire right there.
[01:55:15.920 --> 01:55:23.540]  So, like after the whole kerfuffle where he accidentally said what he thought he heard the guy say.
[01:55:24.080 --> 01:55:30.880]  So, then she allows McLeanland to flat out ask him, sir, in your opinion, what did you hear the man say?
[01:55:30.880 --> 01:55:33.640]  And he says, guys down the hill. That's his opinion.
[01:55:34.460 --> 01:55:35.780]  Guys or girls?
[01:55:36.900 --> 01:55:42.560]  It's guys down the hill. That's what it sounds like to him. That's what he said.
[01:55:43.420 --> 01:55:48.940]  So, the audio and video enhanced separately. So, he separated, like he didn't do it all as one piece.
[01:55:49.560 --> 01:55:53.680]  So, obviously, the video that he tried to enhance, he did separately than the sound.
[01:55:53.680 --> 01:56:03.240]  So, again, that was the thing I was always saying, like why are they acting like that sound happened at the same time?
[01:56:03.340 --> 01:56:12.000]  Because it's very early on in the clip when you see this guy way behind Abby, and the sound is at the very end.
[01:56:12.380 --> 01:56:20.760]  So, when they released it with the sound, it gave the misimpression that that's when the guy is saying it, and it's not.
[01:56:23.140 --> 01:56:35.220]  It's at the 42-second mark or the 41-second mark. And when you see him behind Abby in the video, it's in the first three to five seconds.
[01:56:37.120 --> 01:56:42.300]  So, that was something brought out and like made clear during Cross?
[01:56:44.240 --> 01:56:48.540]  Well, no. Nick got in front of it and asked that. That was his last question.
[01:56:48.540 --> 01:56:51.820]  So, Ajay's Cross was very short.
[01:56:55.460 --> 01:57:07.680]  She had his report, and she was talking about an unenhanced frame, and then page three.
[01:57:07.900 --> 01:57:13.020]  So, she was putting up... she's like, okay, so page two, I just want to clarify for the jury,
[01:57:13.020 --> 01:57:24.040]  page two of your report, which has been published to the jury, page two is an unenhanced frame of the photograph that they're looking at,
[01:57:24.080 --> 01:57:29.240]  and then page three is the enhanced, just so they know what it really looks like.
[01:57:29.780 --> 01:57:39.200]  And she says... and then she goes to... and she talks about that there were changes made to the images, correct?
[01:57:39.320 --> 01:57:41.780]  And he says, yeah, there were changes made to the images.
[01:57:41.780 --> 01:57:48.000]  And she said there were changes to all three of the images, correct? Those are not the images.
[01:57:48.140 --> 01:57:53.420]  Those are images that you've done all kinds of things to in order to create them.
[01:57:53.560 --> 01:57:59.360]  And he said, yes. And then she didn't address the sound at all. She didn't touch the sound.
[01:58:00.660 --> 01:58:11.340]  All right. So, then it got good. Then we had three witnesses testify that were eyewitnesses on the bridge that day.
[01:58:11.840 --> 01:58:17.620]  So, it was Raylee Voorhees, now married Harrison, or well, now she hasn't hyphenated her name officially.
[01:58:17.720 --> 01:58:27.440]  So, she's Raylee Voorhees. So, she lived in Delphi. She was in high school in 2017.
[01:58:27.540 --> 01:58:32.820]  She was 16 years old. She had a cell phone. She, at that point, she used Snap Insta and Facebook.
[01:58:34.400 --> 01:58:40.600]  And her and Libby were Facebook friends. She had no school on Monday, just like the rest of the kids.
[01:58:40.600 --> 01:58:45.980]  And then she decided to walk the high bridge. She was in walking distance to the trails from her home.
[01:58:46.520 --> 01:58:52.200]  And she was at her mom's home. She typically went two to three times a week. She liked to take pictures out there.
[01:58:52.460 --> 01:58:59.140]  And if you missed it, babe, this is one of the eyewitnesses. How old? 16 at the time.
[01:59:00.440 --> 01:59:08.260]  Went to the trails two to three times a week, took pics. Many times she'd go by herself.
[01:59:08.420 --> 01:59:13.260]  Sometimes she'd go with friends. On this particular date, she went with two of her sisters.
[01:59:13.540 --> 01:59:20.560]  She picked one up from her dad's house, who was 12 years old. She picked up her other sister.
[01:59:21.000 --> 01:59:26.680]  And then she picked up her friend, Breanne Wilber, on the way. All four of them headed over.
[01:59:26.680 --> 01:59:31.740]  They all said, yeah, let's go take some pics over at the high bridge. So that's what they did.
[01:59:32.760 --> 01:59:43.580]  So their route, now that you're pretty familiar with the map, so they came in from the neighborhood closest to Freedom Bridge, walking distance to Freedom Bridge.
[01:59:43.680 --> 01:59:51.200]  They take Freedom Bridge in over the Nature Preserve Trail. They took the Preserve Trail all the way to the high bridge.
[01:59:51.900 --> 01:59:52.980]  That's what you did too, right?
[01:59:52.980 --> 01:59:56.940]  Yeah, that's exactly what I did. That's exactly the route that I took.
[01:59:57.420 --> 02:00:02.240]  So she did not go all the way to the end. She went past the barricade.
[02:00:02.260 --> 02:00:09.560]  There was a big orange barricade that they had there in order to try to discourage kids from going out on that bridge.
[02:00:10.160 --> 02:00:13.460]  It didn't work real well because you could just walk right around it.
[02:00:14.920 --> 02:00:19.760]  And so she said she didn't go all the way to the end of the bridge. She said she got just to the first platform.
[02:00:19.760 --> 02:00:22.760]  None of the other three joined her.
[02:00:23.500 --> 02:00:28.780]  And she said when she got to the high bridge, did you go onto the bridge? She said yes, I went to the platform.
[02:00:29.340 --> 02:00:35.760]  My sisters, no, they didn't go. She said that she left her house at 1130 a.m.
[02:00:35.760 --> 02:00:41.480]  And then after all the stops, picking all the people up, they got to the trails and the bridge around noon.
[02:00:42.280 --> 02:00:45.560]  Okay, so remember the timing here. It's important.
[02:00:47.600 --> 02:00:52.600]  So at that point, they get down to the... after they all take some pics on the bridge,
[02:00:53.860 --> 02:01:00.920]  a lot of the other three that didn't get on the bridge proper or maybe one or two steps onto the bridge, they took their pics.
[02:01:01.380 --> 02:01:06.620]  And then they all went down the right side of the bridge down to the water because they wanted to take some more pics down there.
[02:01:06.880 --> 02:01:13.520]  She said there's no path and it's a bit steep, but they made it down. They took a bunch of pics on the river.
[02:01:13.520 --> 02:01:17.600]  And then they said, all right, let's beat it. Let's jet.
[02:01:17.600 --> 02:01:22.200]  All right, so I'm sorry, baby. It was three of them? Four. Four girls total.
[02:01:22.480 --> 02:01:26.240]  These are the four girls that are in the PCA, like if you guys want to frame a reference.
[02:01:26.920 --> 02:01:33.180]  So these are the four probable cause affidavit witnesses that all claim that they saw somebody.
[02:01:35.180 --> 02:01:39.900]  So they make it back up and they start walking back towards the Freedom Bridge.
[02:01:41.680 --> 02:01:48.060]  I forget who it was. I don't know. I think it was Diener was directing her.
[02:01:48.740 --> 02:01:51.360]  Stacey Diener was doing the direct of this particular witness.
[02:01:52.920 --> 02:01:56.580]  And she asked her, what was the temperature that day? And she said it was 47 degrees.
[02:01:56.580 --> 02:02:00.180]  And she says, well, how would you know what the degrees were that day?
[02:02:00.180 --> 02:02:09.280]  She's like, well, when I was leaving, you know, my dad said, you know, it seems like it's too cold for you to be going where and what you're wearing.
[02:02:09.280 --> 02:02:14.700]  She says, no, no, it's nice out. So he pulled up the weather and told her it's 47 dress appropriate.
[02:02:15.180 --> 02:02:16.420]  There you go.
[02:02:18.500 --> 02:02:25.560]  So she did not see anyone on the high bridge that day other than herself and her friends.
[02:02:26.840 --> 02:02:31.040]  And then she saw a person walking towards the high bridge with the dog.
[02:02:31.360 --> 02:02:36.420]  And then she saw another person walking back towards Freedom Bridge.
[02:02:36.920 --> 02:02:42.580]  And she says she often sees people out there. She sees people walking their dogs, walking out there to exercise.
[02:02:43.580 --> 02:02:47.180]  They asked her if Diener asked her if she recognized either of those people.
[02:02:47.840 --> 02:02:50.880]  She said, no, I did not. She said, but I waved at both of them.
[02:02:50.920 --> 02:02:57.060]  I was waving at everybody that day. I was in a good mood. I'm a happy person.
[02:02:58.720 --> 02:03:08.110]  And then so Diener then skips to when she sees this guy.
[02:03:08.310 --> 02:03:13.890]  So she sees this guy and she tried to wave at him.
[02:03:14.190 --> 02:03:19.270]  And this is a guy walking the opposite direction. So he's walking towards the high bridge.
[02:03:19.430 --> 02:03:23.690]  They're walking towards the Freedom Bridge. She sees this guy like she'd been doing with the other people.
[02:03:23.690 --> 02:03:35.130]  So she waved. He didn't wave. Seemed like he kind of like had a sour puss, which I don't know how she saw that once we get to her description.
[02:03:35.650 --> 02:03:38.650]  And he didn't seem like a happy person, I guess because he didn't wave.
[02:03:39.790 --> 02:03:46.130]  And so she found that he was kind of unsettling. He gave her a bad vibe.
[02:03:46.130 --> 02:03:56.750]  OK, so then she kind of slipped into this thing that like later that night when she learned that the girls were missing.
[02:03:57.490 --> 02:04:04.930]  She thought about the guy and she's like, oh, what about that guy? So the girls were talking about a man, you know, that he seemed unhappy.
[02:04:05.050 --> 02:04:12.130]  That's what she kept saying. And then shortly thereafter, on the 15th, she was asked to give a statement.
[02:04:12.130 --> 02:04:19.170]  So she went in and gave a statement. And then she asked her, well, had you taken pics? You took pics with both your Nikon and on your phone.
[02:04:19.170 --> 02:04:25.570]  She said, yes, I did for social media. She said, yes, Snapchat. And she posted some of the pics on her story.
[02:04:26.250 --> 02:04:39.110]  She didn't save them. She said she took a pic with Brianna's phone or Brianne's phone for her to post on Snapchat, which when we get to her, because she testifies as well, she did save the photo.
[02:04:41.110 --> 02:04:56.310]  So her description was that this guy was overdressed for the weather, in her opinion, that he had a face covering on that went all the way over his mouth and halfway up the bridge of his nose.
[02:04:56.770 --> 02:05:10.250]  That he was male, that he had a hat on, that he had a hood and what she could tell. She thought he was Caucasian. She couldn't see his full face. And the mask went over the tip of his nose.
[02:05:11.390 --> 02:05:22.590]  And he was wearing a heavier coat. He had, in her estimation, it was all black. He was wearing black jacket, black pants, black boots.
[02:05:23.910 --> 02:05:34.590]  And he had his hands in his pocket. So then when she sees the still image released, a bridge guy, she says that she recognized that that was the guy that she saw.
[02:05:35.810 --> 02:05:38.850]  And has she given us a time for when she saw this person?
[02:05:40.290 --> 02:05:45.990]  No. So that's... we're getting to it though. Which is weird that she didn't say it on...
[02:05:45.990 --> 02:05:46.490]  Direct.
[02:05:46.910 --> 02:05:56.290]  On direct. So that's basically the... she wasn't on for long. None of these three were on for very long. It was like in and out. They were trying to get them on and off.
[02:05:56.770 --> 02:06:07.450]  So then the cross goes, and I think again, this was Ajay. So she's like, you were off school that night, right? But you still had cheer that day.
[02:06:07.490 --> 02:06:19.870]  She's like, yes, I did. And you had to be home by 230. She's like, correct. So you were close to the end of the trail, but you were still in the trees, right? And she says, yes.
[02:06:19.870 --> 02:06:23.030]  And she claims that she got to...
[02:06:27.990 --> 02:06:38.370]  ...at 220 p.m. Remember that time. So at that point, Ajay pulls out her February 15th statement where she talked to Steve Mullen.
[02:06:39.250 --> 02:06:44.310]  And Mullen says that she was just a few yards from Freedom Bridge.
[02:06:45.070 --> 02:06:58.830]  And that she saw this person at 215 p.m. That's when she sees him on the bridge. And then Ajay says, well, that's two minutes after 213, correct?
[02:06:59.810 --> 02:07:05.310]  She just kind of looks... she's like, yes. Doesn't say why she asked that question. She just asked that question.
[02:07:06.090 --> 02:07:17.570]  So the question is, so the man that you saw was all black, right? And you had him aged at 20 to 30. She's like, yeah, black jeans, black hoodie, black face covering black boots.
[02:07:18.030 --> 02:07:27.830]  And she's like, maybe I thought that... because after she's seen the picture, she can clearly see that he's not wearing all black. He's got a blue jacket on, blue jeans.
[02:07:27.830 --> 02:07:37.550]  Right. But she's assuming she saw the same person, but clearly she didn't since she's on Freedom Bridge. At the same time, that person is on the high bridge.
[02:07:37.810 --> 02:07:46.350]  No, no, no. She's claiming that they are walking towards the... well, you're saying in terms of the state's theory.
[02:07:46.950 --> 02:07:51.870]  Well, yeah. You're saying that this witness saw someone near Freedom Bridge at 215.
[02:07:51.870 --> 02:07:59.930]  Right. Well, the killer or bridge guy is on high bridge at that same exact time. So and actually...
[02:08:00.510 --> 02:08:02.050]  According to the state's theory.
[02:08:02.890 --> 02:08:11.630]  Well, we know that whoever... the bridge guy, the person on the bridge in that video is there at 215.
[02:08:11.630 --> 02:08:24.610]  And on your post, on your post, and I thought I took a picture of it. It's another creator was like... so she made that witness irrelevant by saying it was Freedom Bridge.
[02:08:25.470 --> 02:08:32.110]  I'm blanking on which creator it was. I wanted to not... I mean, I guess it doesn't matter.
[02:08:32.790 --> 02:08:37.850]  No, I mean, I mean, you're exactly right. Like I was trying to kind of like I'm sure we put that together.
[02:08:37.850 --> 02:08:42.770]  We know because I said it a bunch of times with the video was definitely taken at 213.
[02:08:43.610 --> 02:08:52.170]  So we know that her story can't be accurate in terms of who she saw or the time or she just got the time way off.
[02:08:52.610 --> 02:08:56.970]  I was going to kind of wait to get into this discussion until after Brianne testifies.
[02:08:56.970 --> 02:09:02.090]  And if I could find this creator's name, she was saying, well, maybe she actually did see Richard Allen on the way back to his car.
[02:09:03.790 --> 02:09:07.130]  Right. So state had the defense has him gone already by then.
[02:09:09.730 --> 02:09:15.610]  Well, Betsy Blair doesn't or right around then. Betsy Blair hasn't gone. Her car is gone.
[02:09:16.250 --> 02:09:24.490]  All right. So then, like she doesn't even challenge her on that aspect of it.
[02:09:24.490 --> 02:09:32.010]  Like she doesn't say, well, you know, are you aware that, you know, the video was taken on Libby's phone at 213?
[02:09:32.010 --> 02:09:36.570]  And so it's impossible for you to see. So she doesn't she doesn't go at him. She didn't need to.
[02:09:36.870 --> 02:09:46.710]  So she says ultimately that despite the fact that she sees the picture and he's wearing completely different clothes that may be in her mind because of his general demeanor,
[02:09:46.910 --> 02:09:54.190]  that that's what made her think that he was an all black. And then so she said, well, and this guy had a bigger build.
[02:09:54.190 --> 02:09:58.230]  And she says, yes, it's like not muscular, but like a bigger build.
[02:09:58.930 --> 02:10:06.530]  And then so she gave another statement on 217 wherein Auge challenged her on it and impeached her bid and said,
[02:10:06.550 --> 02:10:13.170]  well, in the statement you gave on 217 two days after your first statement, you in fact did say he was muscular, didn't you?
[02:10:13.390 --> 02:10:17.090]  She says, well, that's what the paper says. But I don't remember saying that.
[02:10:17.330 --> 02:10:23.350]  And you also said that he had dirty blonde hair and there wasn't long hair, but it was long enough to come out of the hoodie.
[02:10:24.490 --> 02:10:31.970]  And then she refreshes a recollection again with the 217 statement. She says, yes, I did say that.
[02:10:33.210 --> 02:10:37.650]  And then Auge says, did you tell the investigator that he had curly hair?
[02:10:38.470 --> 02:10:43.950]  You said he had curly hair, square jaw, kind of a wrinkly kind of face.
[02:10:45.050 --> 02:10:48.710]  She says, yeah, that that was what I told them on 217.
[02:10:48.710 --> 02:10:51.850]  And then she said, you gave another statement in 2021.
[02:10:53.210 --> 02:10:59.750]  And the fact is, your memory can't be better in 2021 than it was in 2017, correct? She says, correct.
[02:11:02.890 --> 02:11:12.450]  So then Auge does what she does. She gives her a copy of the map of the area and says, I want you to circle where
[02:11:13.110 --> 02:11:16.770]  you say that you saw a bridge guy and I want you to initial it.
[02:11:16.770 --> 02:11:20.410]  And so she does. She publishes it to the jury.
[02:11:20.970 --> 02:11:28.090]  And remember, at this point, this is right after the witness who just testified that the video was taken at 213.
[02:11:28.110 --> 02:11:35.930]  So she's seeing this guy, as you aptly noted, Alison, in a place that bridge guy could not possibly be because
[02:11:35.930 --> 02:11:39.330]  he's caught on the video that Libby had taken.
[02:11:39.630 --> 02:11:44.950]  And it was yellow jackets, by the way. I don't I don't know who anybody is. I'm sure you probably know who.
[02:11:44.950 --> 02:11:48.250]  Oh, yeah. She's one of the due process gang.
[02:11:48.810 --> 02:11:57.810]  OK. Well, she was like, OK, well, this guy is completely irrelevant because bridge guy is, you know, whoever bridge guy is was on the other bridge.
[02:11:57.890 --> 02:12:04.830]  So I asked, yeah, that's true. So what what do we think the reason the state caught this witness was?
[02:12:04.990 --> 02:12:07.430]  Like, what was the state's point in calling the witness?
[02:12:09.330 --> 02:12:14.010]  I mean, it's hard to know. But like all of these witnesses are like this.
[02:12:14.010 --> 02:12:17.770]  The defense had a very good day today in terms of these witnesses.
[02:12:18.230 --> 02:12:22.150]  So and then he asks, she asks her, you're five, seven, correct?
[02:12:22.950 --> 02:12:28.350]  And then she says, yes. And she says that the man that you saw was taller than you, correct?
[02:12:28.670 --> 02:12:33.010]  She said, yes. And then she says, what's five, ten?
[02:12:33.770 --> 02:12:36.030]  And she says, yes. And then ends it there.
[02:12:36.310 --> 02:12:41.470]  So she's got him, got whoever this guy is that she saw five, ten.
[02:12:41.470 --> 02:12:46.550]  Which doesn't really matter because it's not Richard Allen if it's five, ten, and it's also not bridge guy.
[02:12:47.190 --> 02:12:49.790]  So it doesn't really help anyone.
[02:12:50.510 --> 02:12:57.690]  All right. So then at that point, Dina tries to redirect to do a little bit of rehabilitation.
[02:12:58.430 --> 02:13:01.990]  She asked a question. You stopped at a bench to take some pics, right? Yes.
[02:13:03.070 --> 02:13:06.790]  And then she has her get up to the big the big map on the big screen.
[02:13:07.170 --> 02:13:11.450]  Do you see the building with the green roof, which is in the background of your photo anywhere on this map?
[02:13:11.450 --> 02:13:19.950]  She says, yes, it's this building. So it kind of establishes where that bench is in conjunction to the Freedom Bridge.
[02:13:19.990 --> 02:13:25.470]  And it's it's pretty close. It's probably a minute walk. It's a very short walk from the bench.
[02:13:25.470 --> 02:13:27.010]  So nowhere near the high bridge.
[02:13:27.790 --> 02:13:34.430]  Nowhere near the high bridge. And then she she points close to Mears, the Mears Farm entrance.
[02:13:36.130 --> 02:13:40.810]  OK, so how she pointed the Mears Farm entrance?
[02:13:41.030 --> 02:13:44.250]  I guess that that was like where she claims that the bench was.
[02:13:44.290 --> 02:13:49.950]  Well, that's way closer to the bridge than what you just it's kind of like like it's halfway.
[02:13:50.410 --> 02:13:52.410]  OK, I would I would determine it halfway.
[02:13:53.030 --> 02:13:59.590]  Yeah, it was still when I came in the Mears entrance and it was still I couldn't even like see the bridge for the long.
[02:13:59.590 --> 02:14:07.070]  Not even close. Like I passed like the Mears Bridge entrance is right where the memorial is.
[02:14:07.110 --> 02:14:09.250]  Like when you walk on that path right there.
[02:14:09.610 --> 02:14:17.490]  So I hit that once I crossed Freedom Bridge, I was at the memorial within two minutes, two minutes, two, three minutes.
[02:14:18.170 --> 02:14:20.750]  I am a brisk walker, though, and I was by myself.
[02:14:21.150 --> 02:14:26.510]  So I didn't have anybody with real short legs like dragging me down in terms of my walking pace.
[02:14:31.170 --> 02:14:32.390]  So short legs.
[02:14:33.290 --> 02:14:35.770]  So then she asked her, you saw a bridge guy after you left the bench.
[02:14:35.970 --> 02:14:37.430]  Yes. Says yes.
[02:14:39.010 --> 02:14:43.390]  And then she says, in your entire life, have you ever been asked to estimate weight?
[02:14:43.570 --> 02:14:46.410]  No. Height? No. Distance? No.
[02:14:51.030 --> 02:14:55.030]  She saw a bridge guy coming, coming out.
[02:14:56.030 --> 02:15:08.190]  And so then she asked her that, you know, this she has nothing with her that she had nothing with her when she spoke to the police that would have given them timestamps as to when the pics she had taken.
[02:15:08.490 --> 02:15:09.830]  She said no.
[02:15:10.570 --> 02:15:24.190]  Well, if you're a jury, you've been given the possibility that whoever was on the bridge just continued on off the bridge and bumped into her on his way out and had nothing to do with the murders.
[02:15:24.850 --> 02:15:27.830]  That's one possibility. You've just been presented based on that.
[02:15:27.830 --> 02:15:35.270]  And so very one question, actually a kind of a two question recross.
[02:15:35.770 --> 02:15:43.270]  So the question was, the picture you saw, the still photo that they released to the public, that influenced your memory, didn't it?
[02:15:43.950 --> 02:15:47.470]  She said what? This is Augé asking on Chrome.
[02:15:47.650 --> 02:15:49.070]  Oh, recross.
[02:15:49.090 --> 02:15:55.410]  So the picture you saw of this person they were calling bridge guy influenced your memory, didn't it?
[02:15:55.410 --> 02:16:00.850]  And then finally says possibly, you know, I mean, she had to be honest about it.
[02:16:01.050 --> 02:16:12.790]  The most important thing about that witness, aside from her completely making herself irrelevant, is that she gave no court in court ID of Richard Allen.
[02:16:13.570 --> 02:16:20.490]  There was no do you see the man that you saw on that bridge this day on that day today in court. So no, she didn't ask it.
[02:16:20.490 --> 02:16:35.890]  No, and her if that even if she if that had been the person she had seen had been Richard Allen, that would prove that Richard Allen was not at the end of High Bridge killing on aliving anybody.
[02:16:36.210 --> 02:16:38.930]  Right. So I was on the bridge. I came off the bridge.
[02:16:38.950 --> 02:16:42.650]  And I'll pause it. Pause it all until Brianne. All right. Sorry.
[02:16:42.970 --> 02:16:46.890]  Brianne's with her. He says, wait for it. Wait for it. Wait for it.
[02:16:46.890 --> 02:16:52.870]  So they they they use her to kind of discredit their own witness again.
[02:16:52.970 --> 02:16:56.270]  Who has a wait the picture. I thought the time of the picture was two fifteen.
[02:16:57.730 --> 02:17:01.610]  We don't know the time of the picture. Like that's what I was just saying.
[02:17:01.670 --> 02:17:14.510]  She was asked on redirect nothing that you had when you were you didn't have anything with you when you gave your statements at the police department that would indicate the time or the dates that your pictures were taken.
[02:17:14.510 --> 02:17:18.710]  Correct. And she said, correct. I didn't have anything. Just wait for it.
[02:17:18.730 --> 02:17:26.950]  She didn't have shit. She had no time stamp. Nothing. Well, a picture has a time stamp. She didn't have it because it was on snap and she didn't save it to her phone.
[02:17:27.270 --> 02:17:30.730]  That's what I'm saying. Like I think on snap you can save it to your photos.
[02:17:31.770 --> 02:17:37.210]  She didn't have that setting toggled. So it was gone. She didn't have shit like I was doing the same thing in the gallery.
[02:17:37.210 --> 02:17:41.990]  I'm like, why are they asking her if she had time stamps on her shit? Because that was on redirect.
[02:17:42.530 --> 02:17:46.770]  I was like, I was I was going nuts. I'm like, is it really the main crazy world?
[02:17:46.770 --> 02:17:50.370]  Like, why isn't anybody asking like if she had any of her photos?
[02:17:50.550 --> 02:17:57.110]  Like, like, why is it asking? Did law enforcement ask you for copies of your photographs?
[02:17:57.170 --> 02:18:02.630]  Did they ask to see your phone? Did they want to see if there were time stamps to verify the times you're talking about?
[02:18:02.710 --> 02:18:09.730]  And none of that happened. So and snapchat chat could have if subpoenaed could have told them, although not the image.
[02:18:09.730 --> 02:18:13.750]  But what time images were posted? That they could have known.
[02:18:14.130 --> 02:18:17.810]  Well, it's happened in other cases of mine. We've seen it.
[02:18:18.290 --> 02:18:24.590]  Yeah. All right. So witness five was Breanne Wilbur, one of the four that was down there that day.
[02:18:24.790 --> 02:18:31.830]  Another eyewitness, another student at Delphi 2017. She was using Snapchat primarily.
[02:18:32.130 --> 02:18:38.270]  It's her social media. She did have Liberty German as a friend on snap.
[02:18:38.270 --> 02:18:45.990]  I think she also had Kelsey German as a friend on snap, which is going to be something really interesting.
[02:18:47.350 --> 02:18:53.930]  She went to the trail. She visited it often. It's walking distance from her house.
[02:18:54.750 --> 02:19:02.170]  A lot of times she went with Rayleigh and Anna, another friend, or I think that's actually her sister.
[02:19:02.170 --> 02:19:11.850]  And then. So on that day, on the 17th, they stopped by her house and they all agreed to go take pics out of the bridge.
[02:19:12.510 --> 02:19:19.590]  She said when they got to the high bridge that she only took one or two steps onto the bridge, Max, seeing other people.
[02:19:19.630 --> 02:19:23.330]  She said she saw a couple of people and she said, what did you do?
[02:19:23.330 --> 02:19:30.350]  She said nothing crazy. I took some pics, went down to the water and then we decided to head back to the.
[02:19:31.470 --> 02:19:34.910]  The bridge. The other bridge.
[02:19:37.050 --> 02:19:41.090]  And then she says, was there a last photo that you took before you left?
[02:19:42.010 --> 02:19:48.650]  And she said, yes. And the question was asked, and you provided that photo to law enforcement.
[02:19:49.330 --> 02:19:54.750]  She said, I did. And then she said, and those that photo had a time stamp, did it not?
[02:19:54.950 --> 02:19:57.190]  And she says, yes, it did.
[02:19:57.190 --> 02:20:01.770]  So EV 211 was entered and admitted.
[02:20:02.350 --> 02:20:09.110]  And that is the snap pic that she took. So she actually took a couple of pictures that were entered.
[02:20:09.570 --> 02:20:14.790]  So one was a photo of the high bridge that she took at 1243 p.m.
[02:20:16.570 --> 02:20:24.130]  And then on the way back, her picture at the bench.
[02:20:25.610 --> 02:20:32.390]  Was taken at 126 p.m.
[02:20:33.530 --> 02:20:36.610]  What? 126 p.m.?
[02:20:36.610 --> 02:20:43.310]  Yeah, so a 45 minute difference from when Rayleigh claims that they saw.
[02:20:44.050 --> 02:20:51.190]  And the person that they see is heading from High Bridge towards Freedom Bridge or from Freedom Bridge towards High Bridge?
[02:20:51.190 --> 02:20:56.070]  Again, this is like this person is heading opposite direction.
[02:20:56.070 --> 02:20:57.890]  They're heading towards Freedom Bridge.
[02:20:58.930 --> 02:21:04.590]  This guy that they're claiming they unequivocally think is bridge guys heading towards the high bridge.
[02:21:04.710 --> 02:21:07.870]  So he's going he's going into the trails are coming out of the trails.
[02:21:08.170 --> 02:21:15.170]  OK, and but this bench near the Mears entrance takes the photograph.
[02:21:15.370 --> 02:21:17.410]  I didn't see a bench there.
[02:21:17.410 --> 02:21:21.550]  Yeah, 126 p.m. So we've got a massive difference.
[02:21:21.730 --> 02:21:25.010]  They've completely just I don't even know why they put Rayleigh on.
[02:21:25.190 --> 02:21:31.370]  No idea. No clue why they put her on because this is indisputable.
[02:21:31.590 --> 02:21:39.670]  I kept saying it because there was a break in between Rayleigh and Breanne.
[02:21:40.390 --> 02:21:49.310]  And I'm like, there is no way that they got to the bridge at noon and were there until 2 20.
[02:21:49.390 --> 02:21:52.630]  There is no way I like we did it like we were out there.
[02:21:52.630 --> 02:21:58.670]  We were looking at shit. I stood on the bridge looking at the fish, doing all kinds of shit, thinking about climbing over the railing,
[02:21:58.810 --> 02:22:03.450]  waiting for the little cop in the golf cart to leave so I could walk down the tracks.
[02:22:03.550 --> 02:22:07.670]  You know, it's like we were there forever and we weren't there for anywhere near two hours.
[02:22:07.770 --> 02:22:08.250]  Right.
[02:22:08.250 --> 02:22:11.290]  And we walked. I walked all the way down to the cemetery.
[02:22:11.970 --> 02:22:13.870]  We picked up the car. We drove. Right.
[02:22:13.930 --> 02:22:15.770]  You know, I mean, it was like it wasn't even close.
[02:22:15.770 --> 02:22:17.770]  There's like so that's what I was thinking.
[02:22:18.110 --> 02:22:21.510]  And then Breanne takes the stand, clears it all up for me.
[02:22:21.530 --> 02:22:23.570]  Like this makes way more sense.
[02:22:25.370 --> 02:22:30.830]  So and then so then the next question is, do you see people on the way out?
[02:22:31.070 --> 02:22:32.610]  Our answer was yes, I did.
[02:22:32.870 --> 02:22:36.870]  And I saw a guy with many layers on and he had kind of a strange walk.
[02:22:36.870 --> 02:22:39.430]  And then Rayleigh had been talking.
[02:22:39.710 --> 02:22:42.810]  You know, she said something after we saw him that he was a bit off.
[02:22:44.890 --> 02:22:49.830]  Then Libby had was a friend of mine on Snap and she saw my story
[02:22:50.490 --> 02:22:54.370]  and commented on my story and asked if we were still there.
[02:22:54.750 --> 02:23:00.030]  I responded to her and I said no, that we might have left 10 minutes ago.
[02:23:00.070 --> 02:23:01.990]  She clarified when you say you might have left,
[02:23:02.370 --> 02:23:06.790]  you meant that you left the high bridge about 10 minutes ago.
[02:23:06.790 --> 02:23:09.810]  She's like, correct. Yes.
[02:23:11.590 --> 02:23:15.410]  And so then she so after the girls go missing,
[02:23:15.610 --> 02:23:17.970]  then she goes and she gives a statement.
[02:23:18.330 --> 02:23:23.110]  And her statement is that the man that she saw was walking with a purpose
[02:23:24.170 --> 02:23:29.690]  and that he couldn't see much of his face and he had a blue or black jacket on.
[02:23:30.110 --> 02:23:34.670]  And then she saw the bridge guy image and that she is confident.
[02:23:35.490 --> 02:23:39.630]  That was the person that she saw on the bridge.
[02:23:41.330 --> 02:23:44.870]  And correct me if I'm wrong or maybe the chat can.
[02:23:45.150 --> 02:23:48.870]  Kayleigh dropped the girls off. Was that 147?
[02:23:51.730 --> 02:23:54.650]  Kelsey, you got it by butchering her name. Sorry, Kelsey.
[02:23:56.450 --> 02:24:04.510]  Let's see. I think I can't like I'm at the point now where I've gotten so many dates and times.
[02:24:04.510 --> 02:24:08.110]  You know what? I got Joe Schmo's maps right here.
[02:24:09.490 --> 02:24:14.930]  I'm going to keep going through the cross. Kelsey drops Abby and Libby off at 145.
[02:24:15.230 --> 02:24:19.670]  145. I've heard. Well, we're going to get to it like we're like.
[02:24:20.790 --> 02:24:24.610]  Because we Mullins gets back on the stand. He was the last witness of the day.
[02:24:25.310 --> 02:24:32.730]  He had gotten some still photos from the feds who had gone to Hoosier Harvest.
[02:24:32.730 --> 02:24:43.350]  They pulled some photos and Kelsey's vehicle is one of the vehicles that we see from their video over at Hoover Harvest or Hoosier Harvest.
[02:24:43.990 --> 02:24:46.770]  So Annie gets up and he does the cross.
[02:24:49.710 --> 02:24:54.550]  And so Annie's first question is this guy you saw, he was a taller guy, right?
[02:24:54.550 --> 02:25:04.710]  You said that he came up to and you know, you said that he came up to your upper forearm like you kept saying forearm.
[02:25:04.770 --> 02:25:08.290]  He should have said upper bicep or like he should have just said shoulder.
[02:25:09.290 --> 02:25:14.110]  And so finally she got it. She's a guy who was, you know, he's like the guy who creeped you out.
[02:25:14.170 --> 02:25:20.470]  She's like, yes, he was he was a taller guy that she came up to is just his shoulder blade and she's she's taller.
[02:25:20.470 --> 02:25:30.670]  She's like, and you said in your 2020 interview that he was a muscular younger guy in his early 30s wearing a windbreaker, a hoodie, and that he had something on his head.
[02:25:31.590 --> 02:25:35.110]  And she said he said, yeah, that's accurate.
[02:25:36.630 --> 02:25:40.550]  And he said that there were actually there were a lot of people on that trail.
[02:25:40.730 --> 02:25:43.690]  Right. And then she said, yeah.
[02:25:43.690 --> 02:25:47.310]  And he said, you actually said he looked 20 with brown poofy hair.
[02:25:47.310 --> 02:25:48.270]  Correct.
[02:25:49.410 --> 02:25:52.510]  She said, yeah, and that statement I did.
[02:25:54.170 --> 02:25:56.470]  And then so, uh, dinner.
[02:25:57.870 --> 02:25:58.970]  She doesn't do anything.
[02:26:00.690 --> 02:26:05.910]  So then then we get before you go again, it was 126 the bench picture.
[02:26:07.590 --> 02:26:11.310]  Yes, wait, let me see. Yeah, 126 p.m.
[02:26:12.310 --> 02:26:13.130]  Bench picture.
[02:26:13.130 --> 02:26:20.230]  All right. So witness witness six, I was very excited about it was Betsy Blair.
[02:26:21.510 --> 02:26:24.330]  If you guys haven't been following the coverage from anyone.
[02:26:25.430 --> 02:26:44.430]  You'll remember that during Andy Baldwin's opening statement, he talked about Betsy Blair will be testifying that when she drove past the old CPS, which is now a lot where people park that the
[02:26:45.370 --> 02:26:48.430]  2016 Black Ford Focus was not there.
[02:26:49.390 --> 02:26:55.870]  OK, so just keep that in mind with with this particular witness called by the state at this point.
[02:26:57.050 --> 02:27:00.770]  She does not live in Delphi. She's never live in Delphi.
[02:27:00.770 --> 02:27:06.050]  Back in 2016, 2017, she used to go out to the trails several times a week.
[02:27:06.070 --> 02:27:09.210]  That is where she got her exercise. She always did the exact same route.
[02:27:09.810 --> 02:27:12.170]  Said the weather was a little chilly that day.
[02:27:12.170 --> 02:27:14.790]  I was thinking, yeah, see, it's like that's when you get older.
[02:27:15.390 --> 02:27:16.770]  It's always a little colder.
[02:27:17.590 --> 02:27:20.470]  Teenagers like don't wear jackets, don't zip their shit up.
[02:27:20.510 --> 02:27:22.590]  Old people are like, hey, it was a little bit cold.
[02:27:23.470 --> 02:27:25.710]  Well, we're calling us old. She's like our age, right?
[02:27:25.710 --> 02:27:26.410]  I am old.
[02:27:28.350 --> 02:27:29.330]  She's our age, right?
[02:27:29.710 --> 02:27:30.590]  Right. She's old.
[02:27:32.550 --> 02:27:33.710]  I'm old. You're not.
[02:27:36.950 --> 02:27:40.670]  So she said the time of day that she went, it varied.
[02:27:42.290 --> 02:27:46.390]  She was asked how she would have kept track like her times.
[02:27:46.470 --> 02:27:50.070]  And, you know, when she went places and her steps, she said, I wore a Fitbit.
[02:27:50.610 --> 02:27:53.930]  And I had an app on my phone that had all the data, my Fitbit.
[02:27:54.510 --> 02:27:59.210]  And then she said she would always park by a lot by Old Mears Farm.
[02:28:01.050 --> 02:28:08.050]  And that she would do her particular route that she had set in stone three times.
[02:28:08.590 --> 02:28:10.430]  Like, so it was kind of like she'd do the circuit.
[02:28:11.210 --> 02:28:12.130]  So she'd park.
[02:28:13.630 --> 02:28:17.950]  And then I think she'd walk down the path.
[02:28:18.370 --> 02:28:20.870]  She'd go, she'd be like, I took a right and I took a left.
[02:28:20.870 --> 02:28:22.890]  I'd walk all the way down to the high bridge.
[02:28:23.070 --> 02:28:27.050]  I turn back and I walk and I go up and then I go over the Freedom Bridge.
[02:28:27.050 --> 02:28:29.390]  The high bridge or she just came to the entrance of it?
[02:28:29.390 --> 02:28:32.730]  Yeah, she never she said the most that she'd ever do is like,
[02:28:33.030 --> 02:28:35.710]  I think she may have said she she'd go out to a platform.
[02:28:35.790 --> 02:28:40.150]  But, oh, no, I think she said she actually always stopped at the Orange Barricade.
[02:28:40.150 --> 02:28:42.430]  OK, and she parked where remind us again?
[02:28:42.850 --> 02:28:44.030]  Old Mears Farm.
[02:28:44.430 --> 02:28:46.770]  OK, a lot by Old Mears Farm.
[02:28:47.490 --> 02:28:50.590]  So is Old Mears Farm the same as Mears Farm?
[02:28:51.670 --> 02:28:54.350]  I'm assuming like she pointed out on the big map.
[02:28:54.350 --> 02:28:57.830]  So if so, that's right near the Mears entrance.
[02:28:57.870 --> 02:29:00.430]  I just didn't see a lot over there.
[02:29:01.210 --> 02:29:03.590]  But other than, you know, no lot.
[02:29:04.170 --> 02:29:08.130]  So on this particular day, she did two of her loops that she called them her circuits.
[02:29:08.150 --> 02:29:11.430]  She did two loops and then she took a break for the third loop.
[02:29:12.150 --> 02:29:14.530]  Said she had to take a break. She had to go to the bathroom.
[02:29:14.630 --> 02:29:18.090]  And she said that she left, got in her car,
[02:29:18.730 --> 02:29:23.010]  drove to go to the library to go to the bathroom and then drove back.
[02:29:23.010 --> 02:29:26.010]  And on the second loop, she didn't see anybody.
[02:29:26.510 --> 02:29:29.090]  Now on her third loop, when she gets back from going to the bathroom,
[02:29:29.330 --> 02:29:31.030]  parks and walks back down there,
[02:29:31.590 --> 02:29:37.290]  she said that she sees a man on the high bridge.
[02:29:37.590 --> 02:29:39.310]  And then she stops at the barricades.
[02:29:40.090 --> 02:29:42.130]  No, she said she saw a man near the high bridge.
[02:29:42.290 --> 02:29:46.030]  And then she, as she was walking towards her,
[02:29:46.070 --> 02:29:49.550]  and then she saw another man on the high bridge.
[02:29:50.190 --> 02:29:51.390]  On the platform.
[02:29:52.170 --> 02:29:54.130]  So, and I just want to mention,
[02:29:54.730 --> 02:29:57.110]  when you and I were looking at the high bridge now,
[02:29:57.110 --> 02:29:58.450]  albeit we could only go,
[02:29:58.970 --> 02:30:01.890]  I'm going to say maybe it's about a quarter of the way,
[02:30:01.890 --> 02:30:04.190]  but maybe someone else knows better.
[02:30:05.090 --> 02:30:09.730]  I felt, I mean, I couldn't even see the end because I assumed it was...
[02:30:09.730 --> 02:30:12.290]  Don't confuse the tracks with the bridge.
[02:30:12.390 --> 02:30:14.050]  Like you could see the end of the bridge.
[02:30:14.190 --> 02:30:16.610]  It goes about halfway over the bridge.
[02:30:17.010 --> 02:30:17.630]  Yeah, I'm sorry.
[02:30:18.270 --> 02:30:18.450]  Right.
[02:30:18.790 --> 02:30:19.790]  The tracks keep going,
[02:30:19.790 --> 02:30:24.050]  but the tracks keep going until they hit that access road,
[02:30:24.130 --> 02:30:25.810]  private road, you know,
[02:30:25.850 --> 02:30:28.190]  and I couldn't see the end of the tracks.
[02:30:28.550 --> 02:30:32.190]  Yeah, I didn't make that walk down there
[02:30:32.190 --> 02:30:34.210]  where you guys did all the way down to that end.
[02:30:34.610 --> 02:30:37.890]  I wanted to, but then I'm going to go back there.
[02:30:39.070 --> 02:30:40.930]  So again, she says on her third loop,
[02:30:40.930 --> 02:30:42.090]  she sees a man near the high bridge
[02:30:42.090 --> 02:30:43.330]  and then she stops at the barricades.
[02:30:43.330 --> 02:30:44.510]  She sees a man on the bridge.
[02:30:44.910 --> 02:30:48.150]  She also said she saw two girls walking along,
[02:30:48.150 --> 02:30:50.950]  chatting intimately is the way she put it.
[02:30:51.310 --> 02:30:52.490]  Oh, she did two girls.
[02:30:52.990 --> 02:30:53.110]  Yeah.
[02:30:53.370 --> 02:30:54.890]  And then at this point,
[02:30:54.930 --> 02:30:57.670]  she said she kept walking back towards the freedom bridge.
[02:30:58.110 --> 02:30:59.030]  So like at this point,
[02:30:59.030 --> 02:31:01.670]  she doesn't get into the details what she sees about this guy
[02:31:01.670 --> 02:31:02.770]  that she sees on the bridge.
[02:31:03.610 --> 02:31:04.190]  So then,
[02:31:04.190 --> 02:31:06.530]  because that's the way that Dina was doing it.
[02:31:06.670 --> 02:31:08.350]  She says after that,
[02:31:10.970 --> 02:31:13.890]  that this report comes out that there's girls missing
[02:31:13.890 --> 02:31:14.910]  and her husband says,
[02:31:15.110 --> 02:31:17.150]  Hey, weren't you out there today?
[02:31:17.150 --> 02:31:18.610]  You should call.
[02:31:19.050 --> 02:31:19.970]  You should call in.
[02:31:20.150 --> 02:31:22.190]  Let them know that you were out there.
[02:31:22.210 --> 02:31:22.990]  She's like, OK.
[02:31:23.470 --> 02:31:24.270]  So she does.
[02:31:25.270 --> 02:31:25.790]  The next day,
[02:31:25.790 --> 02:31:27.530]  she learns that the girls are deceased.
[02:31:28.010 --> 02:31:29.330]  She then sees the image.
[02:31:32.430 --> 02:31:35.190]  And wait, she then sees the image.
[02:31:35.430 --> 02:31:35.870]  Yeah.
[02:31:35.870 --> 02:31:38.090]  The image that law enforcement puts out after the girls.
[02:31:38.250 --> 02:31:39.750]  She sees the bridge guy picture
[02:31:39.750 --> 02:31:44.370]  that wasn't put out until like forever afterwards.
[02:31:44.670 --> 02:31:45.270]  No, no, no.
[02:31:45.270 --> 02:31:47.330]  No, no, no.
[02:31:47.330 --> 02:31:48.370]  It's a couple of days.
[02:31:48.370 --> 02:31:49.310]  Couple of days.
[02:31:49.950 --> 02:31:50.110]  What?
[02:31:50.770 --> 02:31:54.370]  The still photo was put out a couple of days after.
[02:31:55.170 --> 02:31:56.850]  Like we just went through the guy.
[02:31:56.930 --> 02:31:58.450]  There was a whole rush job to get to.
[02:31:58.590 --> 02:31:59.670]  The phone was in the guy's hand.
[02:31:59.670 --> 02:32:00.870]  Oh, I'm thinking of the video.
[02:32:01.170 --> 02:32:01.510]  OK.
[02:32:01.810 --> 02:32:02.650]  It's still a photo.
[02:32:03.030 --> 02:32:03.410]  Sorry.
[02:32:04.390 --> 02:32:04.810]  OK.
[02:32:08.210 --> 02:32:10.030]  So at that point,
[02:32:11.650 --> 02:32:14.650]  so Dina holds up the big images
[02:32:14.650 --> 02:32:15.710]  that they have in the courtroom
[02:32:15.710 --> 02:32:18.930]  that has the bridge guy still photo on it.
[02:32:19.030 --> 02:32:20.910]  Says that, you know, this is the image.
[02:32:21.770 --> 02:32:23.010]  And I could have sworn she said,
[02:32:23.030 --> 02:32:24.190]  would you agree?
[02:32:24.850 --> 02:32:25.830]  I was like, what?
[02:32:26.530 --> 02:32:27.270]  Maybe I just wrote that
[02:32:27.270 --> 02:32:28.590]  because of the whole would you agree thing.
[02:32:28.590 --> 02:32:30.010]  Would you agree that this image
[02:32:30.010 --> 02:32:31.830]  is referred to as the bridge guy?
[02:32:32.670 --> 02:32:33.910]  I think I must have like,
[02:32:34.050 --> 02:32:35.150]  I must have made that up.
[02:32:35.150 --> 02:32:36.670]  That must have been like stuck in my head.
[02:32:36.990 --> 02:32:37.890]  And she says, yeah,
[02:32:37.890 --> 02:32:40.010]  I recognize him as the one I saw on the bridge.
[02:32:40.750 --> 02:32:42.650]  So she's then contacted by law enforcement.
[02:32:42.690 --> 02:32:43.590]  She gives a statement.
[02:32:43.590 --> 02:32:45.970]  She then brings them her Fitbit data
[02:32:47.210 --> 02:32:49.350]  and she gives a shared image of the data
[02:32:49.350 --> 02:32:51.190]  from her phone with law enforcement
[02:32:51.850 --> 02:32:55.270]  that was entered as EV 212, the Fitbit data.
[02:32:56.350 --> 02:32:59.430]  And she claims that it was from 12 to 1 p.m.
[02:32:59.510 --> 02:33:01.130]  that she had her Fitbit data said
[02:33:01.130 --> 02:33:03.230]  that she was done with her first two loops
[02:33:03.230 --> 02:33:04.550]  by one o'clock.
[02:33:04.690 --> 02:33:05.390]  Third loop.
[02:33:05.790 --> 02:33:07.910]  And then she does then Dina doesn't get into it.
[02:33:08.130 --> 02:33:10.510]  Like she mysteriously, they just won't talk.
[02:33:10.570 --> 02:33:12.770]  Like she avoids the time
[02:33:12.770 --> 02:33:15.170]  of the end of her third loop, like the plague.
[02:33:16.590 --> 02:33:19.370]  What about the time she went to the bathroom?
[02:33:20.930 --> 02:33:23.230]  Dina avoided it like the plague.
[02:33:24.150 --> 02:33:25.010]  Like the plague.
[02:33:25.170 --> 02:33:26.870]  You'll see when it gets to be crossed.
[02:33:28.910 --> 02:33:29.970]  So our third loop,
[02:33:30.130 --> 02:33:31.470]  that's when she sees bridge guy.
[02:33:31.630 --> 02:33:33.190]  He says he was out on the bridge.
[02:33:33.210 --> 02:33:34.290]  He was on a platform.
[02:33:34.730 --> 02:33:37.730]  And that as she stopped at the barricade,
[02:33:38.110 --> 02:33:40.710]  that he turned and looked at her
[02:33:40.710 --> 02:33:45.090]  as if he was expecting someone, but not me.
[02:33:47.410 --> 02:33:49.670]  So at the law enforcement interview,
[02:33:51.830 --> 02:33:54.890]  she stated that she had never seen this person on the trails before.
[02:33:55.190 --> 02:33:55.630]  No.
[02:33:55.790 --> 02:33:56.390]  And that was it.
[02:33:56.470 --> 02:33:58.050]  That's the end of like, you're done.
[02:33:58.710 --> 02:33:58.970]  Bye. Bye.
[02:33:59.070 --> 02:33:59.890]  I'm done with you.
[02:34:00.050 --> 02:34:00.830]  Andy, you could take her.
[02:34:00.910 --> 02:34:02.050]  So Andy gets up.
[02:34:02.330 --> 02:34:03.610]  So she was calling.
[02:34:04.930 --> 02:34:06.690]  She was calling the entrance.
[02:34:08.770 --> 02:34:10.970]  The niches, the niches entrance.
[02:34:11.630 --> 02:34:13.830]  And like Andy is like, okay, I just,
[02:34:13.850 --> 02:34:15.810]  I just want to be clear for everyone in here
[02:34:15.810 --> 02:34:17.830]  because we have not heard that term before
[02:34:17.830 --> 02:34:19.830]  that the niches is the Mears entrance.
[02:34:20.630 --> 02:34:21.850]  And she says, yes.
[02:34:22.530 --> 02:34:23.750]  Okay. So he goes right into,
[02:34:23.890 --> 02:34:26.030]  so you say that you saw a man on the platform,
[02:34:26.030 --> 02:34:27.630]  the platform on the right.
[02:34:27.830 --> 02:34:28.590]  She says, yes.
[02:34:29.390 --> 02:34:33.830]  And you described him as being in his 20s or 30s
[02:34:33.830 --> 02:34:35.030]  between his 20s and 30s.
[02:34:35.030 --> 02:34:35.550]  She says, yes.
[02:34:35.550 --> 02:34:37.470]  She's like, I didn't tell law enforcement that.
[02:34:37.610 --> 02:34:39.030]  I told the sketch artist that.
[02:34:39.650 --> 02:34:41.690]  And you said that he had brown puffy hair.
[02:34:42.230 --> 02:34:43.650]  She said that's correct.
[02:34:44.650 --> 02:34:47.650]  And she says that,
[02:34:49.750 --> 02:34:53.170]  that she tells Andy that she passed the girls
[02:34:53.910 --> 02:34:56.070]  before she got to the Mears entrance.
[02:34:57.350 --> 02:34:57.890]  Okay.
[02:34:59.290 --> 02:35:01.170]  And they're, they're coming in though.
[02:35:01.590 --> 02:35:02.990]  But they came in the Mears entrance.
[02:35:02.990 --> 02:35:06.330]  Right. So she passes them before.
[02:35:07.130 --> 02:35:08.590]  So she passed different girls.
[02:35:08.910 --> 02:35:11.150]  Right. But remember, she's doing a loop.
[02:35:11.450 --> 02:35:14.550]  Oh, so on her way back from the bridge
[02:35:14.550 --> 02:35:15.810]  before the Mears entrance.
[02:35:16.070 --> 02:35:16.590]  Right.
[02:35:16.870 --> 02:35:20.150]  Okay. Back from high bridge before the Mears entrance.
[02:35:20.310 --> 02:35:21.690]  Then it would have been Abby and Libby.
[02:35:22.190 --> 02:35:22.330]  Exactly.
[02:35:23.010 --> 02:35:25.270]  She says that,
[02:35:26.730 --> 02:35:30.170]  so she goes on to continue what she claims that this guy,
[02:35:30.170 --> 02:35:32.850]  she, and Andy saying, you said that he looked young,
[02:35:33.030 --> 02:35:34.210]  more boyish looking.
[02:35:35.350 --> 02:35:37.370]  You said that in March of 2019,
[02:35:37.450 --> 02:35:39.190]  that he was youthful in appearance
[02:35:39.190 --> 02:35:41.230]  and that he was of average height.
[02:35:42.030 --> 02:35:43.910]  And so the question was, he was not short.
[02:35:44.270 --> 02:35:46.530]  Right. She said, didn't seem like it.
[02:35:46.570 --> 02:35:48.150]  So the question, he was not wearing a hat.
[02:35:48.390 --> 02:35:50.170]  I didn't see one.
[02:35:50.270 --> 02:35:51.450]  And the question,
[02:35:53.050 --> 02:35:54.930]  he had no facial hair.
[02:35:55.270 --> 02:35:55.750]  Correct.
[02:35:55.830 --> 02:35:57.110]  She said, I didn't see any.
[02:35:57.110 --> 02:36:00.050]  And then at this point,
[02:36:01.090 --> 02:36:02.390]  Andy brings up,
[02:36:03.190 --> 02:36:05.210]  he brings up the,
[02:36:05.470 --> 02:36:09.130]  he said, okay, so I want to talk about when you had to take your break
[02:36:09.130 --> 02:36:11.870]  and when you walked back to your vehicle.
[02:36:12.750 --> 02:36:16.050]  And then Deener stands up and makes a beyond the scope objection,
[02:36:17.250 --> 02:36:19.050]  which the judge sustains.
[02:36:22.190 --> 02:36:22.790]  Outrageous.
[02:36:23.550 --> 02:36:26.050]  Like legally, it is ridiculous.
[02:36:26.930 --> 02:36:28.310]  Let's repeat it again.
[02:36:28.310 --> 02:36:29.190]  Repeat what you said.
[02:36:29.870 --> 02:36:32.470]  For all those who were busy chatting with each other.
[02:36:33.110 --> 02:36:35.970]  What? That Deener stands up and makes a beyond the scope?
[02:36:36.050 --> 02:36:38.730]  What she objected to say, just repeat it.
[02:36:39.450 --> 02:36:42.770]  Well, Andy went to ask, he said, okay, well, now I want to ask you about
[02:36:42.770 --> 02:36:44.650]  before you took your third loop,
[02:36:44.710 --> 02:36:47.150]  when you walked back to your car,
[02:36:47.530 --> 02:36:50.030]  got to your car to drive to the library and came back,
[02:36:50.450 --> 02:36:53.490]  and Deener stands up and says, objection beyond the scope.
[02:36:53.490 --> 02:36:57.730]  So now you remember when I said that the only time frame that was brought up
[02:36:57.730 --> 02:37:00.930]  was 12 to 1 o'clock after the first two loops,
[02:37:01.050 --> 02:37:02.270]  that she was done with the first two loops,
[02:37:02.730 --> 02:37:04.070]  that no mention of any time.
[02:37:04.090 --> 02:37:05.830]  So she tries to avoid it like the plague.
[02:37:06.030 --> 02:37:06.590]  But guess what?
[02:37:06.710 --> 02:37:10.170]  She said she got in her car and she drove to the library.
[02:37:10.250 --> 02:37:11.630]  So she testified about that.
[02:37:12.030 --> 02:37:12.630]  I know, I know.
[02:37:12.830 --> 02:37:14.250]  I mean, they're going to call her.
[02:37:14.250 --> 02:37:18.270]  I know, but what is wrong with Judge Gull?
[02:37:19.050 --> 02:37:20.570]  What is wrong with her?
[02:37:21.170 --> 02:37:23.070]  And she doesn't even care about judicial economy.
[02:37:24.530 --> 02:37:25.010]  Yeah.
[02:37:25.250 --> 02:37:26.670]  Like with all the other flaws,
[02:37:26.950 --> 02:37:28.930]  and she doesn't even care about judicial economy.
[02:37:29.190 --> 02:37:30.070]  She doesn't care.
[02:37:30.210 --> 02:37:31.070]  She doesn't care.
[02:37:31.510 --> 02:37:31.850]  All right.
[02:37:32.110 --> 02:37:35.710]  So Andy is like, OK, sits down.
[02:37:35.870 --> 02:37:37.190]  I mean, they know they're going to call her.
[02:37:37.230 --> 02:37:39.650]  And they said she's subject to recall.
[02:37:40.330 --> 02:37:41.970]  Yeah, and she's on their list anyway.
[02:37:42.190 --> 02:37:44.510]  I know, but they said the words, she's subject to recall.
[02:37:46.230 --> 02:37:48.110]  The state, it's their word now.
[02:37:48.270 --> 02:37:51.310]  The defense said the words when she was...
[02:37:51.310 --> 02:37:53.910]  Yes, I'm assuming that they did.
[02:37:54.370 --> 02:37:56.750]  I was like talking to people like,
[02:37:56.830 --> 02:37:58.390]  I can't believe that she sustained that.
[02:37:58.490 --> 02:37:58.870]  You know what I mean?
[02:37:58.990 --> 02:38:00.050]  I was like all...
[02:38:00.050 --> 02:38:00.610]  Up and arm.
[02:38:00.630 --> 02:38:02.790]  I didn't hear what the last thing that they said.
[02:38:02.790 --> 02:38:06.250]  I'm sure that there was definitely a brief conversation,
[02:38:06.290 --> 02:38:07.550]  and I'm sure that's what it was.
[02:38:08.490 --> 02:38:11.690]  Just so you guys know, avoiding mentioning the time,
[02:38:11.970 --> 02:38:13.830]  even though you have mentioned the event,
[02:38:14.310 --> 02:38:15.930]  does not make something outside of the scope.
[02:38:16.170 --> 02:38:18.530]  She testified about an event, period.
[02:38:18.530 --> 02:38:21.450]  She can be asked anything about that event.
[02:38:24.090 --> 02:38:24.570]  Exactly.
[02:38:24.890 --> 02:38:25.930]  So, I mean, it's going to come out.
[02:38:26.010 --> 02:38:26.750]  They know it.
[02:38:26.850 --> 02:38:31.470]  It's like their approach to this thing because...
[02:38:31.470 --> 02:38:34.290]  Did you look up to see if any of the jurors were like,
[02:38:34.290 --> 02:38:35.210]  what? Or writing?
[02:38:35.630 --> 02:38:37.350]  When they're going to be like that,
[02:38:37.830 --> 02:38:40.410]  is when the defense has to call her back to the stand,
[02:38:40.670 --> 02:38:43.510]  and they're going to recall that she made an objection
[02:38:43.510 --> 02:38:47.430]  when he was trying to ask her when she was testifying on their behalf
[02:38:47.430 --> 02:38:48.890]  why they did that.
[02:38:49.250 --> 02:38:50.810]  Why did the state do that?
[02:38:51.570 --> 02:38:53.850]  What ball are you trying to hide from us?
[02:38:54.070 --> 02:38:56.050]  There's not going to be any other interpretation.
[02:38:56.710 --> 02:38:58.490]  This is a very smart jury.
[02:39:00.110 --> 02:39:03.350]  These are not a bunch of people that are paying half attention.
[02:39:03.910 --> 02:39:06.430]  They're like, wrapped attention, sitting there,
[02:39:07.190 --> 02:39:09.650]  diligently taking notes, diligently watching,
[02:39:09.890 --> 02:39:11.490]  asking really bright questions.
[02:39:12.390 --> 02:39:13.990]  This was the wrong jury for that.
[02:39:14.930 --> 02:39:17.170]  So then on redirect,
[02:39:18.950 --> 02:39:19.910]  Diener says,
[02:39:20.090 --> 02:39:23.310]  well, you really only saw this guy for a few seconds, right?
[02:39:23.790 --> 02:39:24.990]  And she's like, yeah.
[02:39:25.130 --> 02:39:27.390]  So they start flame-throwing their own witness.
[02:39:27.610 --> 02:39:30.190]  And I'm like, why did you put her on?
[02:39:31.730 --> 02:39:34.490]  Why did you put her on? I don't get it.
[02:39:34.650 --> 02:39:36.070]  I really don't.
[02:39:41.730 --> 02:39:44.670]  So she then says, since 2017,
[02:39:45.950 --> 02:39:46.870]  what happened, Michael?
[02:39:47.530 --> 02:39:49.750]  You have not changed your mind about your description.
[02:39:52.530 --> 02:39:53.550]  Diener's asking this.
[02:39:53.810 --> 02:39:54.790]  No, this is Andy.
[02:39:55.310 --> 02:39:57.450]  Andy's back for a brief recross.
[02:39:57.570 --> 02:40:00.490]  He says, 2017, that you have not changed your mind about your description.
[02:40:00.970 --> 02:40:03.550]  And then she gives this really kind of confusing answer.
[02:40:03.610 --> 02:40:05.510]  There's like a little bit of back and forth.
[02:40:05.510 --> 02:40:10.970]  And then she says, well, when I gave that description to law enforcement,
[02:40:10.970 --> 02:40:13.550]  I was comparing the two different images,
[02:40:14.650 --> 02:40:17.170]  talking about sketch one, sketch two.
[02:40:19.810 --> 02:40:24.710]  So she seems like she's claiming that they had written down,
[02:40:25.130 --> 02:40:27.410]  like that they had showed her both sketches
[02:40:27.410 --> 02:40:31.970]  and that she was literally describing the second kid,
[02:40:32.770 --> 02:40:35.730]  or the second sketch in 2019.
[02:40:35.890 --> 02:40:38.330]  That she's like, oh yeah, he looks boyish.
[02:40:38.330 --> 02:40:40.270]  He looks fresh faced. He looks young.
[02:40:40.910 --> 02:40:42.610]  He's got brown, puffy hair.
[02:40:44.530 --> 02:40:46.590]  Well, there was no color in that sketch.
[02:40:46.610 --> 02:40:50.970]  And the one other thing that Diener asked her was...
[02:40:54.830 --> 02:40:57.070]  Oh no. Okay, so they're done.
[02:40:57.510 --> 02:40:58.450]  But jury questions.
[02:40:59.870 --> 02:41:02.050]  Jury questions. All right, so the jury asked,
[02:41:02.670 --> 02:41:04.710]  so what was your distance to Bridge Guy?
[02:41:05.070 --> 02:41:06.910]  And she says about 50 feet.
[02:41:07.810 --> 02:41:10.270]  And she says, and so they asked,
[02:41:10.310 --> 02:41:12.490]  how could you tell that he was looking for someone?
[02:41:13.410 --> 02:41:15.750]  It was like his posture.
[02:41:16.350 --> 02:41:19.030]  She said when I saw him, he was kind of looking upstream.
[02:41:20.050 --> 02:41:22.450]  And then he turned around, like when he heard me walking,
[02:41:22.730 --> 02:41:25.450]  he turned around and looked towards me
[02:41:26.150 --> 02:41:30.330]  as if he was looking for someone, but not me.
[02:41:31.390 --> 02:41:33.390]  You know, he's like, oh, oh.
[02:41:33.710 --> 02:41:35.070]  You know, like kind of that move.
[02:41:35.990 --> 02:41:37.830]  Oh no, Brian, it's not her.
[02:41:38.550 --> 02:41:40.130]  So that was a great question.
[02:41:41.170 --> 02:41:44.450]  And then they asked her, could you have mistaken
[02:41:44.450 --> 02:41:48.010]  the brown, puffy hair for a hat?
[02:41:50.270 --> 02:41:51.810]  And she said I could have.
[02:41:51.810 --> 02:41:52.610]  It's possible.
[02:41:54.070 --> 02:41:57.050]  Wow, that's not a good question for the defense.
[02:41:58.270 --> 02:42:00.870]  I want him having brown, poofy hair.
[02:42:01.830 --> 02:42:03.010]  You know,
[02:42:03.870 --> 02:42:06.010]  she's going to like her
[02:42:06.010 --> 02:42:11.010]  her important testimony is about what she saw
[02:42:11.010 --> 02:42:13.670]  or didn't see in that part. And why was there no objection?
[02:42:14.210 --> 02:42:15.950]  Like, I don't know.
[02:42:16.850 --> 02:42:20.670]  Speculation. So last witness for the day was Steve Mullins.
[02:42:22.270 --> 02:42:23.670]  Who was the
[02:42:25.390 --> 02:42:27.010]  he was the scary answer.
[02:42:27.010 --> 02:42:28.630]  I'm still kind of stuck on it.
[02:42:28.710 --> 02:42:32.150]  A scary question from the she's a very honest, honest witness.
[02:42:32.450 --> 02:42:33.390]  No, I mean, the jury.
[02:42:34.010 --> 02:42:38.130]  Could you have mistaken brown, poofy hair for a hat?
[02:42:38.390 --> 02:42:40.370]  Well, I mean, maybe.
[02:42:41.230 --> 02:42:43.030]  I mean, or they're just being thorough.
[02:42:44.670 --> 02:42:47.170]  You know, they haven't heard the other part of it.
[02:42:47.170 --> 02:42:50.270]  Like, let's just reserve it. I noted. Definitely noted.
[02:42:50.390 --> 02:42:53.130]  Like, it's they're thinking about it all.
[02:42:53.410 --> 02:42:55.350]  You know, I mean, they're trying to put it together, right?
[02:42:55.570 --> 02:42:58.130]  So, I mean, you want a jury doing that.
[02:42:58.270 --> 02:43:00.070]  You want them deliberating all the facts.
[02:43:00.470 --> 02:43:03.670]  So, like, I don't worry about things like that
[02:43:03.670 --> 02:43:07.130]  this early in the case. So,
[02:43:07.130 --> 02:43:08.590]  so Mullins gets up there
[02:43:08.590 --> 02:43:14.170]  and he talks about on the 14th
[02:43:15.370 --> 02:43:16.970]  that he examined the Hoover
[02:43:18.110 --> 02:43:19.410]  who's your harvest store
[02:43:22.250 --> 02:43:23.130]  and that
[02:43:23.130 --> 02:43:25.770]  that particular video, which I was telling you,
[02:43:26.030 --> 02:43:28.990]  they put it up. He pointed out where the camera is on that
[02:43:28.990 --> 02:43:31.910]  long, skinny building. Oh, my phone just died.
[02:43:32.590 --> 02:43:34.890]  I just want to note, I think I'm surprised none of the jurors
[02:43:34.890 --> 02:43:37.050]  asked to clarify the times with her.
[02:43:37.670 --> 02:43:41.210]  What time she was where and how long she was on the bridge and
[02:43:41.210 --> 02:43:43.730]  other things that were never strange.
[02:43:44.050 --> 02:43:46.850]  They didn't ask those questions. So,
[02:43:48.190 --> 02:43:50.350]  he talks about where the camera
[02:43:50.350 --> 02:43:53.470]  was and where it's situated that you can see
[02:43:53.470 --> 02:43:57.170]  vehicles on a portion of 300 North
[02:43:57.170 --> 02:43:58.910]  County Road 300 North
[02:43:58.910 --> 02:44:02.290]  during daytime hours. So, he considered that to be
[02:44:02.290 --> 02:44:04.910]  8 o'clock in the morning to 530.
[02:44:05.110 --> 02:44:07.710]  He went and looked at all that video and then he left. He's like,
[02:44:07.710 --> 02:44:10.870]  yeah, I didn't really see anything. So, he decided to review it
[02:44:10.870 --> 02:44:13.830]  again. And this time he looked from 12 a.m.
[02:44:13.830 --> 02:44:16.870]  to 12 p.m. The second time he went back to
[02:44:17.410 --> 02:44:19.830]  Hoosier Harvest to look at it. Wait, 12 a.m.
[02:44:19.830 --> 02:44:22.730]  to 12. 12 a.m. He looks... Oh, on the 13th.
[02:44:23.450 --> 02:44:26.130]  Got it. On the 14th. On the 14th.
[02:44:27.170 --> 02:44:28.730]  Yes. Like, so the day,
[02:44:28.790 --> 02:44:31.970]  I'm assuming this is after the girls are found.
[02:44:32.550 --> 02:44:34.630]  He goes, because then they know they're doing it. No, I meant
[02:44:34.630 --> 02:44:37.950]  he's looking at the video from 12 a.m. on the 13th
[02:44:37.950 --> 02:44:40.210]  to 12 p.m. on the 13th. Oh, yeah.
[02:44:40.410 --> 02:44:43.270]  Of course. Yeah, the day of the crime.
[02:44:44.370 --> 02:44:45.370]  OK, so
[02:44:47.150 --> 02:44:49.710]  he says that he sees vehicles
[02:44:51.350 --> 02:44:52.650]  but he couldn't really make
[02:44:52.650 --> 02:44:54.790]  anything out. So, then he ends up acquiring
[02:44:55.530 --> 02:44:58.630]  a video from the FBI. And they provide
[02:44:58.630 --> 02:45:01.630]  him with some documentation. An affidavit of records.
[02:45:01.630 --> 02:45:04.290]  And that
[02:45:05.630 --> 02:45:07.750]  specifically the retrieval of the video
[02:45:08.830 --> 02:45:10.690]  from Hoosier Harvest.
[02:45:10.870 --> 02:45:13.850]  And he says, did you notice a time
[02:45:13.850 --> 02:45:16.290]  change on the affidavit
[02:45:16.290 --> 02:45:19.810]  that you got from the FBI? And he says, yes.
[02:45:19.910 --> 02:45:23.130]  I did. That they were able to determine
[02:45:23.130 --> 02:45:25.930]  that the Hoosier Harvest video
[02:45:25.930 --> 02:45:28.710]  is, in fact, 54 minutes
[02:45:29.390 --> 02:45:29.950]  fast.
[02:45:33.070 --> 02:45:34.190]  And so...
[02:45:34.190 --> 02:45:36.930]  and he says, OK, so what frame did you look at?
[02:45:38.010 --> 02:45:40.010]  And he says, again, I looked so...
[02:45:40.010 --> 02:45:41.930]  like once I got the actual time,
[02:45:42.630 --> 02:45:45.750]  I was looking from 8 to 5.30
[02:45:45.750 --> 02:45:48.710]  knowing what the actual time is
[02:45:48.710 --> 02:45:51.110]  without it being 54 minutes fast.
[02:45:51.410 --> 02:45:53.690]  And so I was looking for several
[02:45:53.690 --> 02:45:56.470]  vehicles. I was looking for Betsy Blair's vehicle.
[02:45:56.970 --> 02:45:59.230]  I was looking for Sarah Carbaugh's vehicle.
[02:45:59.270 --> 02:46:01.490]  And I was looking for Kelsey German's vehicle.
[02:46:02.150 --> 02:46:05.090]  And he said, did you
[02:46:05.090 --> 02:46:07.910]  observe those vehicles on the video? And he says, yes.
[02:46:08.150 --> 02:46:10.710]  I did. So these are the times that he gets.
[02:46:10.790 --> 02:46:14.830]  And these are EV 214 through EV 219.
[02:46:15.490 --> 02:46:17.810]  So at 214,
[02:46:18.070 --> 02:46:20.470]  Betsy Blair, he sees her
[02:46:20.470 --> 02:46:22.250]  eastbound on 300.
[02:46:22.250 --> 02:46:24.270]  Wait, I'm sorry, what time?
[02:46:25.150 --> 02:46:26.870]  I haven't given the time yet.
[02:46:26.870 --> 02:46:30.490]  So he sees her eastbound on 300 north
[02:46:32.830 --> 02:46:33.390]  at
[02:46:33.390 --> 02:46:36.030]  wrong time, 1256, but then he gives the...
[02:46:36.030 --> 02:46:38.770]  he quits doing that like after this because it was confusing.
[02:46:39.710 --> 02:46:41.650]  So he sees her at
[02:46:41.650 --> 02:46:45.430]  1202.59 heading eastbound.
[02:46:45.430 --> 02:46:48.760]  At EV 215,
[02:46:49.010 --> 02:46:51.650]  he sees Betsy Blair
[02:46:51.650 --> 02:46:54.110]  traveling westbound.
[02:46:54.870 --> 02:46:57.610]  And he sees her at 115
[02:46:57.610 --> 02:46:59.450]  traveling westbound.
[02:47:01.710 --> 02:47:03.570]  So this is when she
[02:47:03.570 --> 02:47:04.690]  goes to the bathroom.
[02:47:06.130 --> 02:47:09.430]  So EV 216,
[02:47:10.890 --> 02:47:12.390]  he sees Betsy Blair
[02:47:12.390 --> 02:47:14.610]  coming back eastbound at
[02:47:15.170 --> 02:47:16.190]  146 p.m.
[02:47:16.590 --> 02:47:18.830]  Wait, not 216 at 146.
[02:47:19.230 --> 02:47:21.030]  Let me finish through the times.
[02:47:22.510 --> 02:47:24.250]  Man, you have no patience.
[02:47:24.830 --> 02:47:26.190]  Well, I wrote down 216.
[02:47:29.250 --> 02:47:31.210]  What did you write down?
[02:47:31.890 --> 02:47:34.090]  You're giving the, I think, the
[02:47:34.090 --> 02:47:38.070]  evidence, the exhibit number. Are you giving
[02:47:38.070 --> 02:47:41.510]  an evidence number? Yeah, I don't know any of the
[02:47:41.510 --> 02:47:43.810]  evidence numbers. Okay, so these are all exhibit numbers.
[02:47:44.270 --> 02:47:46.270]  Exhibit numbers, yeah. So
[02:47:47.070 --> 02:47:49.010]  for my purposes, I'm just calling them EV.
[02:47:50.290 --> 02:47:50.470]  So at
[02:47:53.050 --> 02:47:55.990]  exhibit 217, he
[02:47:55.990 --> 02:47:59.270]  observes Kelsey, German's car,
[02:48:01.290 --> 02:48:01.890]  eastbound
[02:48:01.890 --> 02:48:04.830]  at 149 p.m.
[02:48:04.830 --> 02:48:07.670]  So 149 in the afternoon.
[02:48:09.430 --> 02:48:11.230]  So exhibit 218, he
[02:48:11.230 --> 02:48:13.690]  observes Betsy Blair's vehicle going
[02:48:13.690 --> 02:48:16.830]  westbound at 218 p.m.
[02:48:19.010 --> 02:48:20.170]  Which lines up
[02:48:20.170 --> 02:48:22.830]  exactly with what they're saying, she's
[02:48:22.830 --> 02:48:26.030]  going to say. And then at
[02:48:26.030 --> 02:48:28.670]  exhibit 219, he sees
[02:48:28.670 --> 02:48:31.830]  Sarah Carbaugh heading eastbound
[02:48:33.550 --> 02:48:35.210]  at 356 p.m.
[02:48:35.470 --> 02:48:36.770]  On foot or in car?
[02:48:37.550 --> 02:48:40.170]  These are all in vehicles. These are all vehicles.
[02:48:40.870 --> 02:48:42.290]  And at what time again? Sorry.
[02:48:43.330 --> 02:48:45.130]  356 p.m.
[02:48:47.050 --> 02:48:48.090]  And so
[02:48:53.660 --> 02:48:56.700]  that's it. So he's off the stand at that point.
[02:48:56.900 --> 02:49:00.040]  That's it. He didn't... Oh no, Andy asks one question.
[02:49:00.300 --> 02:49:02.420]  He says, so
[02:49:02.420 --> 02:49:05.780]  he's like, just so I'm clear, and just so the
[02:49:05.780 --> 02:49:08.520]  jury is clear, Betsy Blair and Sarah Carbaugh
[02:49:09.800 --> 02:49:11.700]  came in and said, yeah,
[02:49:11.700 --> 02:49:14.840]  those are our cars. So Andy wants it in stone
[02:49:14.840 --> 02:49:16.280]  that there's no dispute
[02:49:16.980 --> 02:49:19.520]  that those are Betsy Blair
[02:49:20.080 --> 02:49:23.340]  for down the road. That's why he asked. The jury
[02:49:23.340 --> 02:49:26.220]  has no idea why he asked that question, but they'll know soon enough.
[02:49:26.620 --> 02:49:29.580]  So both of those women came in and they both said, yes, that is
[02:49:29.580 --> 02:49:31.880]  my vehicle. Yes, I was there at that time.
[02:49:32.580 --> 02:49:35.600]  So no people on the no people on the camera.
[02:49:35.960 --> 02:49:37.680]  Right. So then
[02:49:41.140 --> 02:49:41.900]  Baldwin had
[02:49:41.900 --> 02:49:44.520]  called a sidebar and that was it for the day.
[02:49:44.660 --> 02:49:47.780]  But in like the judge asks, is there anything else we need to bring up
[02:49:47.780 --> 02:49:50.660]  outside the presence of the jury? Baldwin says, well, just the
[02:49:50.660 --> 02:49:53.440]  one thing that I brought up at the sidebar about the opening of the door
[02:49:53.440 --> 02:49:56.880]  to get the sketches in because they had her testify
[02:49:56.880 --> 02:49:59.480]  about the sketches. Yep. Absolutely.
[02:50:00.100 --> 02:50:02.960]  Absolutely. Yep. So she closed
[02:50:02.960 --> 02:50:05.760]  that door. I take it. No, no. She said, well,
[02:50:05.820 --> 02:50:08.840]  we'll kick that down. We'll kick that till tomorrow
[02:50:08.840 --> 02:50:11.280]  or down the road a bit, but we'll address it.
[02:50:12.020 --> 02:50:14.900]  And then that was it. Wait, hold on.
[02:50:15.080 --> 02:50:18.120]  Fuck. She brought her notebook up. So I had
[02:50:18.120 --> 02:50:20.960]  missed one little bit that
[02:50:22.460 --> 02:50:24.060]  the person sitting to my
[02:50:24.060 --> 02:50:27.260]  left caught and told me about.
[02:50:27.360 --> 02:50:30.520]  I didn't have it in my notes, but I took a screenshot of it
[02:50:30.520 --> 02:50:33.200]  and my phone died. And it was
[02:50:37.780 --> 02:50:38.900]  that Brianne,
[02:50:39.020 --> 02:50:41.000]  the girl who
[02:50:41.860 --> 02:50:44.360]  was with Rayleigh, okay,
[02:50:45.480 --> 02:50:47.700]  Wilbur, said that
[02:50:47.700 --> 02:50:50.420]  and I don't know how I missed this
[02:50:50.420 --> 02:50:52.680]  because it's kind of like, what?
[02:50:53.780 --> 02:50:56.680]  Brianne said that on the day
[02:50:56.680 --> 02:50:57.780]  of
[02:50:58.600 --> 02:51:01.360]  that they went out to the bridge,
[02:51:02.680 --> 02:51:04.740]  that Kelsey was at her house.
[02:51:06.280 --> 02:51:08.460]  Kelsey German, Libby's sister.
[02:51:08.780 --> 02:51:11.080]  Now Kelsey had testified that she was at her
[02:51:11.080 --> 02:51:13.240]  boyfriend's house before she went to work.
[02:51:13.320 --> 02:51:16.300]  Well, is this girl related to her boyfriend?
[02:51:17.740 --> 02:51:19.600]  Not that I know of. I mean,
[02:51:19.600 --> 02:51:22.500]  that didn't come out. I just...
[02:51:22.500 --> 02:51:23.500]  I mean, it's like...
[02:51:23.500 --> 02:51:27.220]  Tomorrow you got to cross-compare with Lee and Andrea to see what they got on that
[02:51:27.220 --> 02:51:29.500]  because that's pretty significant.
[02:51:31.360 --> 02:51:31.620]  Oh.
[02:51:34.100 --> 02:51:35.140]  All right. Yeah.
[02:51:35.540 --> 02:51:40.020]  So that's it, man. It was like a pretty
[02:51:40.580 --> 02:51:43.500]  action-packed day. It was an action-packed day.
[02:51:43.760 --> 02:51:45.760]  We've got tons of questions for you to answer here.
[02:51:45.760 --> 02:51:47.480]  Oh, man. All right. Let me start.
[02:51:48.040 --> 02:51:51.220]  First, we'll just quickly thank the people who just gave comments.
[02:51:51.780 --> 02:51:54.560]  Kate Meal, thank you so much for your transparency.
[02:51:54.820 --> 02:51:56.940]  Thank you. Thank you, Stephen,
[02:51:57.720 --> 02:51:58.880]  for your super sticker.
[02:52:00.100 --> 02:52:02.580]  And Anne Marie Bradley, thank you.
[02:52:02.920 --> 02:52:05.500]  All right. Question. Whispers in the wind. $10.
[02:52:05.720 --> 02:52:09.060]  Question about the bullet. We know that the bullet
[02:52:09.060 --> 02:52:12.060]  was a 40 Smith & Wesson, correct so far?
[02:52:12.060 --> 02:52:14.880]  Yep. But what company
[02:52:14.880 --> 02:52:16.840]  made the bullet? Winchester.
[02:52:17.480 --> 02:52:20.280]  OK. And what brand of bullet
[02:52:20.280 --> 02:52:23.620]  did Richard Allen use in his pistol? We don't know yet.
[02:52:23.860 --> 02:52:26.140]  We don't know. I mean, well, they're saying Winchester
[02:52:26.140 --> 02:52:28.780]  because they're saying it's Allen's bullet. Right.
[02:52:28.820 --> 02:52:31.640]  But we haven't heard. We haven't gotten there yet. OK.
[02:52:32.220 --> 02:52:35.220]  And then we've got Grin for me. Thank you.
[02:52:35.320 --> 02:52:38.320]  $20. Just saying how much he appreciates us
[02:52:38.320 --> 02:52:41.740]  for taking away from our personal lives. Thank you. Thank you.
[02:52:41.800 --> 02:52:44.520]  We do hope to give you fact based on biased opinion
[02:52:44.520 --> 02:52:47.700]  for us and the people
[02:52:47.700 --> 02:52:50.500]  to the best of your ability. Love you both. Thank you.
[02:52:50.500 --> 02:52:53.320]  Thank you, Grin, for me. You're always awesome. Feed back.
[02:52:53.520 --> 02:52:55.080]  Whispers in the wind. Thanks again.
[02:52:56.720 --> 02:52:59.680]  And his or her wife thinks that
[02:52:59.680 --> 02:53:02.580]  I rock and she wants to be my new bestie.
[02:53:02.720 --> 02:53:04.580]  Well, I appreciate that. I do.
[02:53:04.580 --> 02:53:07.620]  Dr. Vonda, always, always.
[02:53:07.860 --> 02:53:10.680]  Always. Yep. Yep. Thank you.
[02:53:10.840 --> 02:53:12.180]  Love you. Sabrina.
[02:53:13.980 --> 02:53:16.680]  So no water and some gun in the enhanced video, Bob?
[02:53:17.180 --> 02:53:20.080]  I did not hear it. I did not hear it.
[02:53:20.240 --> 02:53:22.780]  Did you talk to anyone else? Did you like ask other people?
[02:53:23.480 --> 02:53:25.480]  No one heard it. All right.
[02:53:26.040 --> 02:53:28.580]  I'm telling you, everyone that I talked to
[02:53:29.540 --> 02:53:31.840]  was like, how is
[02:53:31.840 --> 02:53:34.880]  that dude that distance getting that close
[02:53:34.880 --> 02:53:37.640]  that fast where his audio is caught on that phone?
[02:53:39.000 --> 02:53:41.100]  That's what that's like would be like.
[02:53:42.280 --> 02:53:43.720]  I don't think the video
[02:53:43.720 --> 02:53:46.460]  help them. All right.
[02:53:46.800 --> 02:53:49.300]  The crypto tax lawyer. Thank you very much.
[02:53:49.560 --> 02:53:52.800]  I have a question mainly about y'all.
[02:53:52.800 --> 02:53:54.420]  Can we not join
[02:53:55.480 --> 02:53:57.960]  the chat anymore? Chain?
[02:53:59.840 --> 02:54:00.900]  Sorry, out of the loop.
[02:54:01.300 --> 02:54:04.660]  OK, I don't know what that what that means.
[02:54:04.940 --> 02:54:07.760]  What does that mean? Can we not join the
[02:54:07.760 --> 02:54:09.680]  chat anymore? Sorry, out of the loop.
[02:54:10.160 --> 02:54:12.460]  The channel. Oh, maybe two.
[02:54:12.820 --> 02:54:15.620]  Of course, you could definitely join the channel.
[02:54:17.340 --> 02:54:19.140]  Did Ali get booted from the
[02:54:19.140 --> 02:54:21.920]  exhibit? Well, I did. Yes.
[02:54:21.940 --> 02:54:24.220]  From the exhibit. Well, the well of the court.
[02:54:25.140 --> 02:54:27.460]  Three is Ali generally at home
[02:54:27.460 --> 02:54:29.360]  this month. And yes.
[02:54:30.120 --> 02:54:33.100]  And Bob money be money. All right. In Indiana.
[02:54:33.780 --> 02:54:36.760]  Yes. Goal interest in chaos
[02:54:36.760 --> 02:54:38.560]  chaos by design.
[02:54:39.040 --> 02:54:42.220]  So I think the people have been saying that like
[02:54:42.860 --> 02:54:45.520]  goals. I think this is
[02:54:45.520 --> 02:54:48.220]  what he's saying. Like goals trying to like
[02:54:49.160 --> 02:54:51.260]  stir things up so that she can say,
[02:54:51.260 --> 02:54:54.080]  you know what? All the spectators have caused issues.
[02:54:54.300 --> 02:54:57.380]  We're shutting it down. Maybe that's what
[02:54:57.380 --> 02:54:59.840]  crypto tax is referring to the nook.
[02:54:59.880 --> 02:55:02.340]  Our dog does not like it. He's he's over there whining.
[02:55:02.360 --> 02:55:05.960]  I'm assuming that our mods address the like if he's
[02:55:05.960 --> 02:55:08.700]  talking about like I'm not sure if you're talking about
[02:55:08.700 --> 02:55:11.880]  joining the chat or the channel. I'm assuming the channel
[02:55:11.880 --> 02:55:14.960]  of like becoming a member can definitely still become a
[02:55:14.960 --> 02:55:17.980]  member. I don't think you do it from your phone, though,
[02:55:17.980 --> 02:55:21.560]  like for I don't know. Hopefully my mods
[02:55:21.560 --> 02:55:24.420]  address that. So Stephanie is asking, what about the guy
[02:55:24.420 --> 02:55:27.540]  that spit on what on one of the girls? And again,
[02:55:27.920 --> 02:55:30.400]  he can't bring them up. Stephanie Elvis fields.
[02:55:30.400 --> 02:55:33.360]  We don't know. They don't. What was DNA found?
[02:55:33.520 --> 02:55:36.300]  That seems there was a lot of things not not checked and we haven't
[02:55:36.300 --> 02:55:39.400]  heard when when the defense was asking
[02:55:39.400 --> 02:55:42.340]  Richard. Richard Allen's DNA wasn't found
[02:55:42.340 --> 02:55:45.280]  here. Richard Allen's DNA wasn't found there. Did they
[02:55:45.280 --> 02:55:48.500]  establish whether or not somebody's DNA was found? Are there
[02:55:48.500 --> 02:55:51.320]  unknown? Unknown samples?
[02:55:52.300 --> 02:55:54.520]  Not that I'm aware of, but like
[02:55:54.520 --> 02:55:57.520]  we read you through the list of swabs
[02:55:57.520 --> 02:56:00.200]  they took. We haven't gotten to that that witness.
[02:56:00.500 --> 02:56:03.260]  All right, Heidi. Yes, they do.
[02:56:03.260 --> 02:56:05.920]  Heidi. They definitely take finger. And
[02:56:05.920 --> 02:56:08.700]  I think that we're going to hear from the ME tomorrow.
[02:56:09.060 --> 02:56:12.480]  So if scrapings were taken, that's where it would have
[02:56:12.480 --> 02:56:16.060]  happened during the autopsy. So we'll know more once the autopsy
[02:56:16.060 --> 02:56:18.680]  takes place. Sandy D wants to know, do you know the evidence
[02:56:18.680 --> 02:56:21.800]  clerk? Was it someone from Carroll County? I don't.
[02:56:21.920 --> 02:56:24.780]  Like we have not gotten any kind of indication who that
[02:56:24.780 --> 02:56:27.840]  was. If I were able to walk up into the well of the
[02:56:27.840 --> 02:56:30.560]  courtroom and look at exhibits, I could tell you who the evidence clerk
[02:56:30.560 --> 02:56:33.580]  was. All right. And what about black sweatpants?
[02:56:33.660 --> 02:56:36.920]  Have we heard anything about black sweatpants? Have we heard anything about any sweatpants?
[02:56:37.660 --> 02:56:39.240]  No, no sweatpants. We've heard about jeans.
[02:56:39.240 --> 02:56:44.600]  Both jeans. I think what we heard is that she unwittingly
[02:56:44.600 --> 02:56:46.440]  to Becky Patty had
[02:56:46.440 --> 02:56:48.780]  got out of her sweats.
[02:56:49.440 --> 02:56:51.600]  Like the last time that... Oh, right.
[02:56:51.800 --> 02:56:54.720]  Okay. So the family thought she left in
[02:56:54.720 --> 02:56:57.240]  sweats, but she had actually changed clothes before
[02:56:57.880 --> 02:56:59.880]  her grandmother didn't realize it.
[02:57:00.920 --> 02:57:03.660]  And it was just jeans. Just jeans.
[02:57:05.840 --> 02:57:06.700]  I don't know.
[02:57:06.700 --> 02:57:10.020]  I mean, I think if there's any kind of thought of
[02:57:10.280 --> 02:57:12.680]  essay taking place, I think the belly button
[02:57:12.680 --> 02:57:14.760]  would probably be swabbed.
[02:57:16.000 --> 02:57:18.760]  Because a lot of times if there's an essay,
[02:57:19.280 --> 02:57:21.820]  the offender may
[02:57:21.820 --> 02:57:24.760]  release themselves on their victim's
[02:57:25.280 --> 02:57:28.060]  chest and or stomach area. So
[02:57:28.060 --> 02:57:29.640]  I would assume so.
[02:57:30.400 --> 02:57:33.740]  And we know that there were
[02:57:34.880 --> 02:57:37.300]  two essay kits done on each of the girls.
[02:57:38.320 --> 02:57:40.080]  And for aspiring court reporter,
[02:57:40.220 --> 02:57:42.420]  we don't know yet if there was anybody else's DNA.
[02:57:42.800 --> 02:57:45.400]  DNA stuff we don't know yet. It has not come up yet.
[02:57:45.660 --> 02:57:48.740]  We just know what would swab. We don't know any of the results.
[02:57:49.140 --> 02:57:51.980]  My King of Kings, why would he
[02:57:52.740 --> 02:57:54.800]  try to do anything after being interrupted?
[02:57:54.940 --> 02:57:57.680]  I agree. That's going to like what I had said earlier,
[02:57:57.700 --> 02:58:01.040]  which was like the state keeps saying he was interrupted.
[02:58:01.040 --> 02:58:04.180]  There was so much activity after this
[02:58:04.180 --> 02:58:07.120]  interruption. Alright, I'm booting the dog up.
[02:58:07.300 --> 02:58:10.380]  Go through the questions. All of them starred in their supers.
[02:58:11.360 --> 02:58:13.240]  Okay, so thank you
[02:58:13.240 --> 02:58:15.700]  for the question, my King of Kings. Kay Pick, does
[02:58:15.700 --> 02:58:18.460]  Gull and the sister really think this case will hold on appeal?
[02:58:19.720 --> 02:58:22.240]  No idea. I really don't know.
[02:58:23.020 --> 02:58:25.580]  I've been trying to get into Gull's head for two years.
[02:58:25.880 --> 02:58:28.620]  I could not tell you, Kay Pick. I do not know.
[02:58:30.860 --> 02:58:32.540]  Inspiring interrupted by whom?
[02:58:33.300 --> 02:58:35.700]  Right. Exactly. Like sound.
[02:58:37.580 --> 02:58:38.660]  Like somebody
[02:58:38.660 --> 02:58:41.000]  made a sound. They were worried.
[02:58:41.840 --> 02:58:44.640]  I don't know. I don't know.
[02:58:45.920 --> 02:58:47.760]  Shmo, Joe Shmo, could he phrase it?
[02:58:48.480 --> 02:58:49.720]  Would it be fair to say?
[02:58:50.620 --> 02:58:53.360]  I mean, yes, he could, but it's like
[02:58:53.360 --> 02:58:57.020]  it's all the same shit. So like
[02:58:57.020 --> 02:59:00.020]  it's just crazy that she's nitpicking on them like that
[02:59:00.020 --> 02:59:03.220]  when those are just standard fair cross
[02:59:04.180 --> 02:59:06.120]  like openings and like salvos
[02:59:06.120 --> 02:59:09.500]  like I always say correct at the end.
[02:59:10.040 --> 02:59:12.100]  Kraken, question, are the sticks
[02:59:12.100 --> 02:59:13.900]  even wood from there?
[02:59:15.660 --> 02:59:18.300]  What do you mean are they wood? I don't understand the question, Kraken.
[02:59:18.560 --> 02:59:20.440]  Ask again if you're still here.
[02:59:21.680 --> 02:59:24.020]  Wait, wait, wait. She means or he means is it
[02:59:24.020 --> 02:59:26.300]  sticks from that area? Like is it wood from that area?
[02:59:27.960 --> 02:59:29.720]  Are the sticks even
[02:59:29.720 --> 02:59:31.500]  wood from there or from that area?
[02:59:32.180 --> 02:59:35.780]  We don't know. They didn't do any tests.
[02:59:36.140 --> 02:59:39.440]  Like we don't know. Well, remember one of them was supposed to be saw cut.
[02:59:40.140 --> 02:59:41.120]  So we have no idea.
[02:59:41.840 --> 02:59:44.440]  Like, I mean, theoretically they could have brought a stick with them. That would be weird.
[02:59:44.640 --> 02:59:47.440]  Or they had a saw with them or
[02:59:47.440 --> 02:59:49.300]  the girls were taken from the scene.
[02:59:49.300 --> 02:59:52.740]  I mean, they didn't do any kind of testing because
[02:59:52.740 --> 02:59:54.520]  remember, just remember this.
[02:59:55.200 --> 02:59:58.320]  The sticks have no evidentiary value
[02:59:58.320 --> 03:00:01.380]  according to the law enforcement that handled this case.
[03:00:01.820 --> 03:00:04.800]  So KDog8173, thank you for the $5.
[03:00:04.960 --> 03:00:07.400]  She is a Dell or he is a...
[03:00:08.420 --> 03:00:11.320]  Delphi resident. Right now I was trying to see in the picture if it was a guy or a girl.
[03:00:11.560 --> 03:00:13.500]  Delphi resident for 24 years.
[03:00:13.620 --> 03:00:15.240]  The news is not saying much.
[03:00:15.240 --> 03:00:17.440]  Following you guys until this is over.
[03:00:17.520 --> 03:00:19.400]  Prayers for all the family. Thank you.
[03:00:19.800 --> 03:00:22.320]  Thank you. And I hope they follow us after too.
[03:00:22.640 --> 03:00:25.740]  And Heidi wants to know, did you hear anything about any ligature marks?
[03:00:26.060 --> 03:00:27.820]  No. Zero.
[03:00:28.160 --> 03:00:32.960]  But let's keep remembering we have not heard the autopsy report yet.
[03:00:32.980 --> 03:00:34.800]  So we'll hear that.
[03:00:35.020 --> 03:00:36.380]  But we didn't see any pictures.
[03:00:37.200 --> 03:00:41.280]  They didn't take any photographs of an area they thought that might have
[03:00:41.280 --> 03:00:43.020]  ligature marks though.
[03:00:43.680 --> 03:00:47.780]  Criminal network asks, could Abby's arms have been tied to her body?
[03:00:48.180 --> 03:00:50.300]  We didn't see anything that speaks to that.
[03:00:50.320 --> 03:00:53.400]  Although I did think it was possible and I was asking Bob
[03:00:53.400 --> 03:00:55.700]  because I didn't see that...
[03:00:55.700 --> 03:00:58.860]  the piece of wood. I saw... I came late that day.
[03:00:58.860 --> 03:01:01.360]  So I only saw pictures after that first piece of wood.
[03:01:01.720 --> 03:01:05.140]  And I had asked you, was it like her hands?
[03:01:05.180 --> 03:01:08.560]  Like she was holding on to that wood before it was taken away?
[03:01:08.560 --> 03:01:10.560]  Or looked like she was holding on to it?
[03:01:10.980 --> 03:01:14.840]  No, to me it looked like it was...
[03:01:14.840 --> 03:01:17.420]  the sticks were placed on her body.
[03:01:17.480 --> 03:01:19.100]  Not as if she was holding any of them.
[03:01:19.120 --> 03:01:23.720]  But there was one that went horizontal up by her neck, right?
[03:01:24.040 --> 03:01:24.760]  I think so.
[03:01:25.220 --> 03:01:28.240]  So do you know if the wood was over top of it?
[03:01:28.400 --> 03:01:29.060]  I don't know.
[03:01:30.000 --> 03:01:33.500]  See, that's the downside of not getting the close up of...
[03:01:34.480 --> 03:01:38.120]  From seeing from my perspective, I just couldn't see it.
[03:01:38.860 --> 03:01:40.500]  So once they take it down, it's gone.
[03:01:40.660 --> 03:01:41.100]  You know what I mean?
[03:01:44.740 --> 03:01:46.500]  Johannes Windelberry, thank you.
[03:01:47.700 --> 03:01:50.020]  Have they taken other suspects' DNA
[03:01:50.020 --> 03:01:52.060]  mentioned in the Franks to compare to that hair?
[03:01:52.200 --> 03:01:54.820]  If not, could they pull the trash?
[03:01:56.180 --> 03:01:59.120]  All we know right now is that the only DNA
[03:01:59.120 --> 03:02:01.900]  that I know that they're currently testing is Kelsey Germans.
[03:02:02.460 --> 03:02:05.140]  I thought one of the other...
[03:02:05.140 --> 03:02:08.560]  I thought the mother or the grandmother, someone also said...
[03:02:08.560 --> 03:02:10.500]  All I've heard is Kelsey's.
[03:02:10.740 --> 03:02:14.960]  So when you say could they pull trash,
[03:02:15.120 --> 03:02:17.380]  I mean, if they is the defense,
[03:02:17.440 --> 03:02:19.080]  because the state could have...
[03:02:19.080 --> 03:02:21.080]  Yes, the state could have done that if they wanted to.
[03:02:21.140 --> 03:02:23.020]  The state could have asked if they wanted to.
[03:02:23.280 --> 03:02:24.700]  You mean over the last seven years?
[03:02:24.700 --> 03:02:26.560]  Right, right.
[03:02:27.380 --> 03:02:28.240]  It's crazy.
[03:02:28.800 --> 03:02:31.240]  I think the answer is yes, of course.
[03:02:31.240 --> 03:02:34.540]  Sounds to me, although I don't know...
[03:02:34.540 --> 03:02:37.120]  If you guys put it out to your curb,
[03:02:37.640 --> 03:02:39.500]  which they call the curdle edge, it's fair game.
[03:02:40.840 --> 03:02:43.240]  They did it in the Coburger, right?
[03:02:43.920 --> 03:02:46.040]  I can come pick shit out of your garbage.
[03:02:46.320 --> 03:02:47.780]  If you put it out to your curb,
[03:02:47.780 --> 03:02:51.800]  you have no privacy interest in that garbage anymore.
[03:02:53.260 --> 03:02:55.400]  So multi-brad.
[03:02:55.460 --> 03:02:56.320]  Read that, babe.
[03:02:56.840 --> 03:02:59.360]  My college law professor took me to Nicaragua
[03:02:59.360 --> 03:03:01.300]  in the late 1980s during the summer,
[03:03:01.580 --> 03:03:03.240]  shattering my world view.
[03:03:03.620 --> 03:03:07.360]  This case will either shatter your view of the judicial system,
[03:03:07.380 --> 03:03:09.620]  which is pretty shattered as it is,
[03:03:09.800 --> 03:03:12.320]  or make you heroes in my eyes.
[03:03:12.320 --> 03:03:14.060]  Thank you. Package for justice.
[03:03:14.460 --> 03:03:14.980]  Go Bears!
[03:03:19.060 --> 03:03:22.460]  Thank you for your generosity, multi-brad.
[03:03:23.800 --> 03:03:24.960]  Defense Diaries podcast,
[03:03:24.980 --> 03:03:27.480]  do you think one person could do this?
[03:03:29.720 --> 03:03:30.420]  I don't know.
[03:03:31.940 --> 03:03:33.680]  It seems like it would be very difficult.
[03:03:35.640 --> 03:03:38.680]  If they did in fact cross the creek,
[03:03:39.080 --> 03:03:40.660]  I think it would be very, very difficult.
[03:03:43.240 --> 03:03:45.720]  KPIC, how long do you expect this trial to go?
[03:03:45.940 --> 03:03:46.820]  Three to four weeks.
[03:03:48.280 --> 03:03:49.980]  Thank you, Benjamin Wyckoff.
[03:03:50.460 --> 03:03:53.840]  Best way forward is focus on a NEPT investigation.
[03:03:54.800 --> 03:03:55.840]  Agreed, completely.
[03:03:56.740 --> 03:04:00.020]  Truth and transparency. Hi, and thank you.
[03:04:00.240 --> 03:04:03.000]  Bob, the notes are fierce, son.
[03:04:03.180 --> 03:04:03.700]  Fire.
[03:04:04.080 --> 03:04:07.540]  As I bang on the table, I'm going to pick up Reid
[03:04:07.540 --> 03:04:09.240]  and you're going a little too slow for my taste.
[03:04:09.440 --> 03:04:10.800]  I'm ready to go lay down.
[03:04:11.440 --> 03:04:13.940]  Thank you so much, Truth. Appreciate you.
[03:04:14.260 --> 03:04:16.780]  Elf Suzy, was there DNA under the fingernails?
[03:04:16.800 --> 03:04:21.360]  To be determined, we'll find out when we get the autopsy
[03:04:21.360 --> 03:04:23.140]  with the medical examiner.
[03:04:23.480 --> 03:04:26.700]  Thank you, Nonsense Fake Michael Osbrick for your five bucks.
[03:04:26.840 --> 03:04:27.300]  We appreciate it.
[03:04:27.320 --> 03:04:29.600]  Bobbo and I are currently getting ripped off.
[03:04:29.600 --> 03:04:31.880]  It's not about justice, it's about Internet clout.
[03:04:32.380 --> 03:04:35.900]  I don't know Bobbo slays these delusional ladies, but cheers.
[03:04:36.080 --> 03:04:36.720]  Thanks, man.
[03:04:37.180 --> 03:04:39.100]  But I would like to know how offensive it is.
[03:04:39.600 --> 03:04:42.220]  You've got the ladies delusional.
[03:04:42.900 --> 03:04:43.860]  What's that mean?
[03:04:45.900 --> 03:04:49.400]  I'm assuming those are our viewers, the people that are watching us.
[03:04:49.560 --> 03:04:51.700]  So he's saying...
[03:04:51.700 --> 03:04:56.740]  The guys are smart, but all the female viewers are delusional.
[03:04:56.740 --> 03:04:57.400]  I don't know.
[03:04:58.020 --> 03:05:03.540]  JD, so are they not allowed to ask?
[03:05:03.660 --> 03:05:05.420]  Would you agree? Apparently not.
[03:05:07.560 --> 03:05:08.240]  Apparently not.
[03:05:08.480 --> 03:05:12.660]  Multibrat comes back with $20 ice cream money for the kids and dog.
[03:05:13.060 --> 03:05:15.540]  Thank you for your time, passion and great work.
[03:05:16.280 --> 03:05:18.220]  I think I might let you answer the rest of these
[03:05:18.220 --> 03:05:20.040]  because the dog is really banging away up there.
[03:05:20.240 --> 03:05:22.020]  Oh wow, this guy is too much.
[03:05:22.020 --> 03:05:25.880]  I mean, that's inappropriate.
[03:05:26.580 --> 03:05:28.900]  I mean, the guys, you know, I mean, if you want to.
[03:05:29.420 --> 03:05:32.660]  Can't wait for more Gacy content. Let's go.
[03:05:33.040 --> 03:05:34.940]  Oh, bear Jew. Love it.
[03:05:35.020 --> 03:05:37.020]  Check your Shiba.
[03:05:38.820 --> 03:05:41.220]  Alley where the girls hair wet. Not that we know of.
[03:05:41.980 --> 03:05:45.140]  I don't remember them saying that either one way or the other.
[03:05:45.480 --> 03:05:48.420]  I don't either, but I don't like it seems if their hair was wet.
[03:05:48.980 --> 03:05:51.260]  Right, but I just I honestly I don't remember.
[03:05:51.260 --> 03:05:54.260]  I don't even raising it like.
[03:05:55.120 --> 03:05:57.700]  But what I'm saying is I think if their hair was wet,
[03:05:57.900 --> 03:05:59.160]  that they would have said it.
[03:05:59.180 --> 03:06:01.680]  Well, I think I mean, it's definitely an assumption,
[03:06:01.680 --> 03:06:05.820]  but like I am assuming that if it was that they would have.
[03:06:06.340 --> 03:06:07.420]  OK, do we know?
[03:06:08.140 --> 03:06:09.920]  Oh, are they not asking these witnesses
[03:06:10.540 --> 03:06:13.240]  if the person they saw that day is in the courtroom? No.
[03:06:13.380 --> 03:06:16.260]  So no, like all three of the eyewitnesses,
[03:06:16.920 --> 03:06:20.300]  none of them made a positive identification
[03:06:20.300 --> 03:06:21.560]  of Richard Allen in that courtroom.
[03:06:21.620 --> 03:06:25.500]  Not only did they not make it, they were not asked by either side.
[03:06:26.660 --> 03:06:31.720]  Like, I mean, I've done it in cases where I've been when they don't ask.
[03:06:32.220 --> 03:06:36.940]  I've asked only because I knew that they looked at a six pack
[03:06:36.940 --> 03:06:38.240]  and they didn't ID my guy.
[03:06:38.300 --> 03:06:40.000]  Now, I don't know if that happened in this case.
[03:06:40.100 --> 03:06:41.960]  I don't know. And I don't know if they deposed.
[03:06:42.200 --> 03:06:44.080]  Do we know if they deposed these eyewitnesses?
[03:06:44.080 --> 03:06:46.020]  They deposed so many people you would think.
[03:06:49.260 --> 03:06:50.140]  OK, spitfire.
[03:06:52.280 --> 03:06:55.600]  Do we know if Abby was actually dating that one on this guy's son?
[03:06:55.860 --> 03:06:56.600]  We've got no clue.
[03:06:57.060 --> 03:06:58.100]  It looks like we don't know.
[03:06:58.880 --> 03:07:03.580]  It was stated that we do know that they saw each other three times
[03:07:03.580 --> 03:07:05.260]  and that's out of Brad Holder's mouth,
[03:07:05.620 --> 03:07:07.140]  like on three separate occasions.
[03:07:07.980 --> 03:07:10.820]  And I don't want to... I appreciate the comment, Kelt,
[03:07:10.860 --> 03:07:13.100]  and I was just saying I don't want to focus on the tattletale
[03:07:13.100 --> 03:07:18.300]  because I just don't... I don't want people harassing anybody in my name.
[03:07:18.700 --> 03:07:19.820]  I know who it was.
[03:07:19.820 --> 03:07:20.840]  I know.
[03:07:21.560 --> 03:07:23.140]  Benjamin Wyckoff, five-dollar holler.
[03:07:23.140 --> 03:07:25.380]  The whole investigation is crazy. Yes.
[03:07:26.400 --> 03:07:28.280]  Brandy L. Grell, great use.
[03:07:28.400 --> 03:07:29.260]  They asked about the seat.
[03:07:29.480 --> 03:07:31.200]  I told you guys about the seat.
[03:07:31.200 --> 03:07:34.320]  Cathy Allen and, frankly, Rick's mother
[03:07:34.320 --> 03:07:36.640]  both wanted me there to give them a straight doubt.
[03:07:37.080 --> 03:07:38.580]  So I don't know how else to put it.
[03:07:38.820 --> 03:07:39.600]  I have no idea.
[03:07:40.060 --> 03:07:41.500]  I have to say this.
[03:07:41.500 --> 03:07:44.180]  Like, I don't know anybody any explanation,
[03:07:46.320 --> 03:07:48.180]  especially not those two people.
[03:07:48.960 --> 03:07:51.600]  I'm doing that because, like, regular people are asking because if...
[03:07:51.600 --> 03:07:52.920]  Right, because our viewers are asking.
[03:07:52.960 --> 03:07:56.020]  If you guys ask me, I don't have anything to hide.
[03:07:56.800 --> 03:07:57.760]  I have zero to hide.
[03:07:57.920 --> 03:07:59.260]  I'm not working for the defense.
[03:07:59.760 --> 03:08:01.460]  I'm not a licensed attorney in Indiana.
[03:08:01.500 --> 03:08:03.640]  I couldn't work for the defense if I wanted to.
[03:08:03.940 --> 03:08:05.940]  And all of our content speaks for itself.
[03:08:05.940 --> 03:08:06.980]  It's that simple.
[03:08:07.840 --> 03:08:08.420]  Like, I don't know.
[03:08:08.620 --> 03:08:09.120]  Like, I am learning...
[03:08:09.120 --> 03:08:10.460]  All right, we're moving on from it.
[03:08:10.460 --> 03:08:13.120]  I'm learning about the evidence at the same time that you guys are,
[03:08:13.120 --> 03:08:13.660]  and that's it.
[03:08:13.960 --> 03:08:14.580]  That is true.
[03:08:14.700 --> 03:08:15.440]  That is it.
[03:08:16.080 --> 03:08:18.720]  So, Brandy, I don't have any idea if the jurors recognize...
[03:08:18.720 --> 03:08:19.380]  I got to read through these.
[03:08:19.500 --> 03:08:20.080]  You're going way too slowly.
[03:08:20.080 --> 03:08:22.400]  Wait, I just want to say an answer here.
[03:08:22.560 --> 03:08:25.780]  But I do notice the one juror...
[03:08:25.780 --> 03:08:26.180]  Three hours.
[03:08:26.540 --> 03:08:28.520]  Like, Darren's trying to turn these into things,
[03:08:28.520 --> 03:08:31.260]  and he sent me a text saying he went four hours last night.
[03:08:31.280 --> 03:08:32.560]  He's not using any of this.
[03:08:32.700 --> 03:08:33.920]  He's not using any of this.
[03:08:33.920 --> 03:08:35.540]  I'm just saying...
[03:08:35.540 --> 03:08:39.160]  Like, it was already two hours and 40 minutes going into it.
[03:08:39.160 --> 03:08:41.200]  Like, we need to truncate them.
[03:08:41.680 --> 03:08:43.900]  We got to try to trim them down to an hour and a half.
[03:08:43.980 --> 03:08:44.940]  That's got to be our goal.
[03:08:45.320 --> 03:08:46.000]  All right, well, good luck.
[03:08:46.100 --> 03:08:48.340]  I think you should tell me your new, exciting idea,
[03:08:48.340 --> 03:08:49.700]  how we're going to do that.
[03:08:49.960 --> 03:08:52.260]  I'm going to answer this question, and then maybe I will.
[03:08:53.120 --> 03:08:57.340]  So, there's this one juror that I often see when there's a lull
[03:08:57.340 --> 03:08:59.940]  and the testimony is kind of boring,
[03:09:00.480 --> 03:09:04.020]  looking out and scanning the gallery
[03:09:04.940 --> 03:09:08.060]  and focusing a lot on the family.
[03:09:08.060 --> 03:09:12.280]  And I think it's because I see Richard Allen looking back that way often.
[03:09:12.560 --> 03:09:15.520]  And now that Bob has raised what we were thinking about doing
[03:09:15.520 --> 03:09:18.000]  is that Bob shares his notes with me,
[03:09:18.000 --> 03:09:21.460]  and I go live in the afternoon with y'all.
[03:09:21.980 --> 03:09:24.420]  With the first, yeah, with the morning, with the morning session,
[03:09:24.420 --> 03:09:25.980]  and then I'll come back and do the nights.
[03:09:26.000 --> 03:09:27.180]  That would be awesome.
[03:09:27.820 --> 03:09:29.280]  Ali came up with an amazing idea.
[03:09:29.480 --> 03:09:30.760]  I was super excited about it.
[03:09:30.760 --> 03:09:31.400]  Because this is rough.
[03:09:31.660 --> 03:09:33.540]  Like, this is like, I want to do this,
[03:09:33.860 --> 03:09:37.480]  but I've been all day, like, up since seven
[03:09:37.480 --> 03:09:39.600]  and then coming and doing, like, a three-hour live.
[03:09:39.780 --> 03:09:40.780]  And I want...
[03:09:40.780 --> 03:09:43.860]  It's important for us that you guys all get the information.
[03:09:44.640 --> 03:09:47.100]  So, I think if Ali is willing to do it,
[03:09:47.120 --> 03:09:48.400]  I think that that would, like...
[03:09:48.400 --> 03:09:50.080]  Tomorrow, I've got court in the afternoon,
[03:09:50.220 --> 03:09:52.180]  so it's not happening tomorrow.
[03:09:52.900 --> 03:09:55.940]  All right. So, Crankin wants to know...
[03:09:55.940 --> 03:09:56.540]  Crankin.
[03:09:56.740 --> 03:09:59.960]  But what did we hear before he manipulated the audio?
[03:10:00.540 --> 03:10:01.380]  It's hard to say.
[03:10:01.520 --> 03:10:04.660]  I think it's fair to assume what's in the audio is in the audio,
[03:10:04.700 --> 03:10:05.760]  that he just cleaned it up.
[03:10:06.540 --> 03:10:08.180]  I mean, I guess.
[03:10:08.740 --> 03:10:11.160]  Like, it's not, you know...
[03:10:11.160 --> 03:10:12.180]  It's weird to me.
[03:10:12.440 --> 03:10:15.580]  Like, I'm never gonna be able to make it make sense
[03:10:15.580 --> 03:10:19.260]  that that guy that was that far away, that the phone...
[03:10:19.260 --> 03:10:25.240]  iPhone 6 picked up that guy's voice from that far away.
[03:10:25.920 --> 03:10:26.400]  I'm just not...
[03:10:26.400 --> 03:10:29.640]  Like, and there's no way he closed that gap in that amount of time.
[03:10:29.760 --> 03:10:31.000]  Zero chance of it.
[03:10:31.420 --> 03:10:34.520]  Well, it sounds like the girls were already looking about
[03:10:34.520 --> 03:10:35.560]  trying to go down there.
[03:10:35.560 --> 03:10:38.940]  They were already talking about it in the gravel and the...
[03:10:38.940 --> 03:10:39.520]  But there's...
[03:10:39.520 --> 03:10:41.500]  Like, she mentioned something about getting down there,
[03:10:41.500 --> 03:10:42.480]  going down there.
[03:10:43.340 --> 03:10:43.520]  Yeah.
[03:10:44.340 --> 03:10:44.500]  All right.
[03:10:44.580 --> 03:10:45.200]  Nina Megapint.
[03:10:45.280 --> 03:10:46.940]  Thank you both so much for covering this.
[03:10:47.320 --> 03:10:49.960]  Our true, true eyes and ears in the courtroom.
[03:10:50.140 --> 03:10:50.560]  We try.
[03:10:50.740 --> 03:10:51.680]  We try our best.
[03:10:55.460 --> 03:10:57.280]  Joannis Windberry, $5 holler.
[03:10:57.300 --> 03:10:58.260]  Appreciate you again.
[03:10:58.380 --> 03:11:02.800]  Will the FBI folks who believed Odinism could be involved,
[03:11:02.900 --> 03:11:04.200]  be called by the stand by the defense?
[03:11:04.360 --> 03:11:04.540]  Nope.
[03:11:04.540 --> 03:11:05.660]  Not as of now.
[03:11:05.900 --> 03:11:07.780]  Unless the judge changes her...
[03:11:07.780 --> 03:11:09.540]  She made a preliminary opinion...
[03:11:10.140 --> 03:11:12.060]  ruling, she'd have to change it.
[03:11:12.360 --> 03:11:13.200]  Thank you, Jason.
[03:11:13.600 --> 03:11:13.980]  Yes.
[03:11:14.140 --> 03:11:14.600]  Welcome.
[03:11:14.680 --> 03:11:15.020]  MacLeland?
[03:11:15.820 --> 03:11:16.460]  Family hug.
[03:11:18.260 --> 03:11:18.620]  Linda.
[03:11:19.380 --> 03:11:20.040]  De Casale.
[03:11:20.040 --> 03:11:20.740]  De Casale.
[03:11:21.600 --> 03:11:22.800]  Thank you for the coverage.
[03:11:23.380 --> 03:11:27.700]  Were CVS employees interviewed regarding RA, behavior, demeanor,
[03:11:27.980 --> 03:11:31.120]  when he processed photos for Libby for the family for the funeral
[03:11:31.120 --> 03:11:32.220]  and gave it to him for free?
[03:11:32.440 --> 03:11:33.160]  Good question.
[03:11:33.160 --> 03:11:33.760]  We don't know.
[03:11:33.760 --> 03:11:34.680]  I don't know.
[03:11:34.940 --> 03:11:36.400]  It would be interesting to know, though, for sure.
[03:11:36.500 --> 03:11:37.980]  I mean, the only thing...
[03:11:38.540 --> 03:11:41.000]  I've heard nothing negative,
[03:11:41.740 --> 03:11:46.120]  but for one Walmart employee.
[03:11:46.400 --> 03:11:47.260]  I thought...
[03:11:47.260 --> 03:11:48.680]  And honestly, I'm not even saying this,
[03:11:48.800 --> 03:11:52.300]  and Jess said that she thought he farted at work.
[03:11:52.480 --> 03:11:56.000]  Well, there's been nothing weird or negative about him.
[03:11:56.400 --> 03:11:58.800]  I swear it was some kind of really weird...
[03:11:58.800 --> 03:12:01.520]  Thank you, Crystal O'Neill.
[03:12:01.520 --> 03:12:05.280]  Yeah, towards $5 holla, towards a clip on the mic.
[03:12:05.520 --> 03:12:07.240]  I have it. I'm just not home, Crystal.
[03:12:07.240 --> 03:12:08.600]  I'm staying in an Airbnb.
[03:12:09.360 --> 03:12:10.440]  I've got my mic.
[03:12:10.760 --> 03:12:11.300]  I just...
[03:12:11.300 --> 03:12:14.220]  I don't have all my gear in Indiana.
[03:12:15.560 --> 03:12:17.320]  Sherry Presley, thank you very much.
[03:12:17.540 --> 03:12:18.600]  $50 holla.
[03:12:19.180 --> 03:12:19.420]  Wow.
[03:12:19.480 --> 03:12:20.940]  This whole case is so suspect.
[03:12:21.500 --> 03:12:22.500]  Thank you for educating us.
[03:12:22.600 --> 03:12:24.600]  The defense lawyers are here to defend our Constitution
[03:12:24.600 --> 03:12:25.720]  just as much as prosecutors.
[03:12:27.000 --> 03:12:28.820]  Prosecutors do not defend the Constitution.
[03:12:29.740 --> 03:12:30.780]  That's not what they do.
[03:12:30.780 --> 03:12:32.080]  They put people in jail.
[03:12:32.200 --> 03:12:33.080]  They are the government.
[03:12:33.540 --> 03:12:34.380]  That's the lesson.
[03:12:34.440 --> 03:12:35.380]  Remember that.
[03:12:36.280 --> 03:12:36.880]  It's like that.
[03:12:36.920 --> 03:12:38.440]  That's a very important distinction.
[03:12:39.400 --> 03:12:41.960]  Defense attorneys are the only ones who defend the Constitution.
[03:12:42.040 --> 03:12:45.580]  Now, they have to follow the Constitution.
[03:12:46.920 --> 03:12:49.820]  They're sworn as an attorney to uphold the Constitution.
[03:12:50.400 --> 03:12:51.780]  But in terms of defending it...
[03:12:52.360 --> 03:12:55.000]  And they prosecute people for crimes they commit.
[03:12:55.500 --> 03:12:58.320]  And it's the people that are in the profession
[03:12:58.320 --> 03:13:00.880]  that have the word defense in their name
[03:13:00.880 --> 03:13:02.580]  are the ones that defend the Constitution.
[03:13:03.000 --> 03:13:03.500]  Thank you so much.
[03:13:03.500 --> 03:13:06.240]  Although every wrongfully convicted case I learn about
[03:13:06.240 --> 03:13:09.080]  makes me question prosecutors more than I ever have.
[03:13:09.240 --> 03:13:10.960]  It's a sad state of affairs, Sherry.
[03:13:10.960 --> 03:13:12.580]  We appreciate it. Thank you.
[03:13:13.140 --> 03:13:14.440]  Oh, I missed that last part?
[03:13:14.700 --> 03:13:14.940]  Yep.
[03:13:15.300 --> 03:13:15.800]  Oh, good.
[03:13:16.660 --> 03:13:18.180]  Thank you. I'm glad you're questioning them.
[03:13:18.380 --> 03:13:18.580]  You should.
[03:13:19.160 --> 03:13:21.160]  Okay, the chronic illness diaries.
[03:13:21.400 --> 03:13:23.920]  Question, why do you think they have no defensive wounds?
[03:13:25.760 --> 03:13:28.620]  It's like they didn't know or were unconscious.
[03:13:29.700 --> 03:13:32.920]  True, or it just happened so fast that...
[03:13:32.920 --> 03:13:34.340]  Or from behind even.
[03:13:34.620 --> 03:13:36.560]  It doesn't seem that way. They crossed the bridge.
[03:13:36.720 --> 03:13:37.500]  It got under... I don't know.
[03:13:37.580 --> 03:13:39.760]  I'm talking about at the end.
[03:13:40.000 --> 03:13:40.880]  Like how it ends.
[03:13:41.780 --> 03:13:42.680]  I mean, I don't know.
[03:13:42.720 --> 03:13:44.260]  All right, you got to check out Venmo.
[03:13:44.500 --> 03:13:47.920]  Well, I'll go through this and see what Gretchi Mama asked.
[03:13:47.940 --> 03:13:51.160]  My phone's dead. I'll check it.
[03:13:51.320 --> 03:13:53.600]  Wait, I can't. You go on. I'll check. You go on.
[03:13:53.600 --> 03:13:55.500]  I've been pretty good about commenting
[03:13:55.500 --> 03:13:57.880]  and thanking you guys on the actual Venmo app,
[03:13:57.920 --> 03:13:59.460]  because we love Venmo.
[03:13:59.860 --> 03:14:02.020]  So thank you, Gretchi. We appreciate you so much.
[03:14:02.220 --> 03:14:03.160]  KDog, another $2.
[03:14:03.620 --> 03:14:06.040]  For the good puppy you got, rub that belly.
[03:14:06.180 --> 03:14:07.620]  Always. We love to rub his belly.
[03:14:07.840 --> 03:14:09.980]  All right, so she sent us $50,
[03:14:10.180 --> 03:14:12.400]  and she said, tissues for Ali,
[03:14:12.880 --> 03:14:15.880]  after Bob yelling about the...
[03:14:15.880 --> 03:14:17.700]  The hammer. I'm sure it's the hammer.
[03:14:17.820 --> 03:14:18.960]  Yes, the hammer.
[03:14:19.920 --> 03:14:21.700]  The hammer was a lot. A lot of hammer.
[03:14:21.700 --> 03:14:24.020]  I know. I knew that there would be a lot of people
[03:14:24.020 --> 03:14:25.320]  that didn't like it, but you know what?
[03:14:25.320 --> 03:14:27.500]  I was on a thing with it, so you got it.
[03:14:27.500 --> 03:14:29.500]  Yeah, you were on one. I was on one.
[03:14:29.520 --> 03:14:31.660]  Thank you very much, Gretchi Mama.
[03:14:32.120 --> 03:14:33.900]  Yes, so, so much. That's so generous.
[03:14:34.140 --> 03:14:36.320]  Jake, $2 holiday. You think they're on pace
[03:14:36.320 --> 03:14:37.720]  to hit the end date. Yes, I do.
[03:14:37.820 --> 03:14:40.760]  And I was rubbing that dog's belly, by the way.
[03:14:41.160 --> 03:14:43.340]  Afton, always give her Wonder Mod.
[03:14:43.560 --> 03:14:45.840]  Give to 1DD. Appreciate you.
[03:14:46.200 --> 03:14:48.060]  Pasha, thank you both.
[03:14:48.700 --> 03:14:49.700]  The Mudblood PRs.
[03:14:51.560 --> 03:14:53.300]  Should be on the cam.
[03:14:53.360 --> 03:14:54.900]  I would think so.
[03:14:55.060 --> 03:14:58.340]  JD, last but not least, we appreciate you.
[03:14:58.540 --> 03:14:59.740]  All right, quit tapping it, babe.
[03:15:01.460 --> 03:15:03.040]  I'm sure these days are exhausting.
[03:15:03.160 --> 03:15:05.820]  I'm sure that Gull is pushing for chaos.
[03:15:06.400 --> 03:15:08.580]  I appreciate y'all keeping your cool with integrity
[03:15:08.580 --> 03:15:09.800]  and not stirring the pot.
[03:15:09.900 --> 03:15:12.780]  Of course. I'm like, I'm not a pot stirrer.
[03:15:12.900 --> 03:15:13.500]  It's not what I do.
[03:15:13.840 --> 03:15:15.560]  I'll stir some pots. Just kidding.
[03:15:16.180 --> 03:15:17.860]  Much love to y'all. Stay strong.
[03:15:18.520 --> 03:15:20.100]  I'll let you say goodbye without me
[03:15:20.100 --> 03:15:21.760]  because Nook is going crazy.
[03:15:21.760 --> 03:15:23.760]  Love y'all. See you in Harvard.
[03:15:23.760 --> 03:15:24.820]  You guys are amazing.
[03:15:25.520 --> 03:15:27.620]  We were 1,500, 1,600 strong tonight.
[03:15:27.700 --> 03:15:31.460]  Please make sure you share, subscribe, like on the way out.
[03:15:31.720 --> 03:15:34.600]  Share, subscribe, like. Tell your friends, tell your neighbors.
[03:15:35.140 --> 03:15:36.400]  We think we're a pretty good channel.
[03:15:36.860 --> 03:15:39.440]  You get to see Allie and I kind of like in our natural element.
[03:15:39.600 --> 03:15:41.040]  Like there's no fake shit with us.
[03:15:41.460 --> 03:15:44.520]  Like we're, you know, it's like...
[03:15:44.520 --> 03:15:46.980]  We are who we are and we love hanging with you guys
[03:15:46.980 --> 03:15:48.520]  and hopefully you like us
[03:15:48.520 --> 03:15:50.440]  because we like you an awful lot.
[03:15:50.900 --> 03:15:54.220]  To my mods, thank you so much for your incredible hard work.
[03:15:54.360 --> 03:15:55.580]  All of you.
[03:15:55.900 --> 03:15:58.600]  Thank you to all of you generous folks out there
[03:15:59.100 --> 03:16:00.600]  that are supporting the show.
[03:16:00.920 --> 03:16:02.220]  It really...
[03:16:02.220 --> 03:16:03.620]  I'm not going to lie.
[03:16:03.880 --> 03:16:07.320]  It really is what inspires me to keep doing this
[03:16:07.320 --> 03:16:09.080]  because I have to tell you
[03:16:09.700 --> 03:16:11.120]  like getting out there
[03:16:11.120 --> 03:16:12.580]  and like I've got a seat.
[03:16:13.120 --> 03:16:16.540]  Like I truly feel bad for my friends
[03:16:16.540 --> 03:16:18.980]  that are having to stand in that line
[03:16:18.980 --> 03:16:20.740]  because it's brutal.
[03:16:21.520 --> 03:16:22.080]  It's brutal.
[03:16:22.260 --> 03:16:24.980]  I don't like that Andrea is having to stand in that line
[03:16:24.980 --> 03:16:28.260]  and if I can do anything about it, I'm going to.
[03:16:28.500 --> 03:16:29.500]  Same with Lawyer Lee.
[03:16:29.660 --> 03:16:31.640]  I do not like that they're having to do that.
[03:16:31.640 --> 03:16:32.700]  I think it's bullshit.
[03:16:33.820 --> 03:16:35.220]  They're important voices.
[03:16:36.000 --> 03:16:37.860]  And, you know, so I'm not happy about it.
[03:16:37.860 --> 03:16:41.020]  But like even with me being able to sleep in longer,
[03:16:41.020 --> 03:16:43.020]  I don't know how they're doing it.
[03:16:43.380 --> 03:16:44.260]  It's brutal.
[03:16:44.720 --> 03:16:45.380]  It's brutal.
[03:16:45.920 --> 03:16:48.600]  Like today they went to go eat lunch
[03:16:48.600 --> 03:16:50.660]  because there was nobody waiting to get in.
[03:16:51.000 --> 03:16:53.040]  Otherwise, if there had been people waiting to get in,
[03:16:53.040 --> 03:16:54.080]  people are like dipping.
[03:16:55.000 --> 03:16:55.660]  Just dipping.
[03:16:57.760 --> 03:16:59.020]  So, you know,
[03:16:59.100 --> 03:17:01.540]  it's like today they were able to actually go out and eat.
[03:17:01.880 --> 03:17:04.040]  Can you imagine standing out there all night
[03:17:04.040 --> 03:17:05.220]  sitting in there
[03:17:05.220 --> 03:17:07.360]  and then not being able to leave to go even eat?
[03:17:07.900 --> 03:17:09.020]  Like I took...
[03:17:09.020 --> 03:17:10.880]  I insisted yesterday that Andrea go.
[03:17:10.980 --> 03:17:12.540]  I'm like, I'm going to stand in line
[03:17:12.540 --> 03:17:14.400]  and your ass is going to go eat.
[03:17:14.600 --> 03:17:16.300]  Like I'm going to hold your place.
[03:17:17.040 --> 03:17:18.360]  So thankfully she went.
[03:17:18.460 --> 03:17:19.560]  I don't think she went and got food.
[03:17:19.560 --> 03:17:20.800]  She just wanted to get some fresh air.
[03:17:21.320 --> 03:17:23.660]  So you guys are amazing. I love you all.
[03:17:23.680 --> 03:17:25.140]  Make sure you're checking out the Twitter,
[03:17:25.280 --> 03:17:26.660]  Defense Underscore Diaries.
[03:17:27.000 --> 03:17:28.420]  That's where I give my first updates.
[03:17:29.840 --> 03:17:31.900]  I'm going to really try to talk Allianz
[03:17:31.900 --> 03:17:33.300]  into doing the afternoon update
[03:17:33.300 --> 03:17:36.080]  when I can scan my notes to her.
[03:17:36.080 --> 03:17:37.360]  Hopefully she'll be able to read them.
[03:17:37.440 --> 03:17:39.900]  You guys saw that struggle bus the first time.
[03:17:39.960 --> 03:17:41.140]  Maybe she'll get better at it.
[03:17:41.140 --> 03:17:43.220]  Or maybe Nick, Nicole
[03:17:43.220 --> 03:17:45.880]  will be kind enough to try to
[03:17:45.880 --> 03:17:47.080]  transcribe before us.
[03:17:47.160 --> 03:17:48.480]  She is a hero like that.
[03:17:49.640 --> 03:17:51.200]  So again, mods, love you.
[03:17:51.580 --> 03:17:52.880]  You guys, I love you.
[03:17:53.060 --> 03:17:54.580]  I will see you tomorrow.
[03:17:55.040 --> 03:17:57.500]  Probably around the same bad time, same bad channel.
[03:17:58.060 --> 03:17:59.660]  You guys rock, because without y'all
[03:17:59.660 --> 03:18:01.120]  I'm just an old man.
[03:18:01.580 --> 03:18:03.480]  Talk about a whole bunch of cases.
[03:18:21.620 --> 03:18:24.440]  Thank you so much for watching.
[03:18:24.440 --> 03:18:24.920]  I'll see you tomorrow.
[03:18:26.080 --> 03:18:27.260]  Bye.
[03:18:37.280 --> 03:18:40.080]  Thank you for watching.